People have asked about velocity differences in bolt action rifles. There's a video titled, ".22 rifle velocity bolt vs. semi" It is an excellent demonstration of the difference. I can't post a link If someone would, that will be very helpful.
I found this one. The tester used a Stevens 87 that can fire semi auto or locked breech single shot. It had a 24" barrel to bad he didn't use the same ammo to add to this test. th-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/w-d-xo.html
Figuring the extreme spread of the velocity on the rifles would be a better test as a barrel that's tighter will give more velocity than one that longer and looser.
I always laugh a little when Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" when he has a literal truckload of medals and awards for shooting better than other people. Gotta love that humility
At the risk of being "that guy" his .22 offhand groups do always look just kind of normal to me. Now, a lot of shooters, myself included, fall off in ability quickly with the more theatrical calibers.
Ha! I was reading through comments while listening to chrono firings - - wondering what might have been used as a holder. When I finally saw...Yes, I laughed. "Field-expedient"
Paul Harrel is to the “average shooter” as a Green Beret is to the regular infantry. Makes me chuckle every time Paul claims to be “the average shooter”.
Say... Well, you never saw Mancheski shoot! Too bad he couldn't keep his left foot from his right foot when he marched. 😆 Drill Sargeant tried and tried because he had to go up and get a marksmanship medal, but to no avail.
I've been here since around 20k subs. Paul has remained the same. His style, demeanor, and presentation are the same now as they were then. That is the biggest compliment I think I can give him. Keep on doing what you do the way you do it Paul. It's real, and it works.
I just realized that I subscribed just before he hit 100,000 subs, and how big a deal it seemed when he made the subsequent special. It's kind of strange that he hasn't gotten to 1 mil yet, it seemed like he was putting out a special every few months. He earned my sub by being honest, informative, and entertaining without being boring or long winded.
The crack of a .22lr brings so many memories for me. As a little kid, my dad used to take me woodchuck and rabbit hunting with his old 1957 Winchester model 77. I no longer have my dad and miss him so much. But he gave me that old rifle before he passed and at least I still have that old rifle and take it out now and then to hear that cracking sound and bring back those memories.
Paul Harrell, the best firearms specialist on TH-cam. Edit: Thanks for the support and thumbs up guys. Truly one of the best TH-cam communities around.
I like that Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" As a certified non-professionel I think it's safe to say that Paul is somewhat above the average shooter.
Nah, just your average shooter with a literal bucket of trophies and medals from shooting competitions... plus all sorts of distinctions for marksmanship from both the Army and Marines. Paul's just like us :D
Tested 40 gr CCI minimags through 3 rifles, along with 7 other types of ammo, and it was the most accurate in all 3. So that's what I pick up whenever out and about. Works well in the 22 conversion kit for a G19. One size fits all.
I've read some folks saying their rifle didn't like MM as much as some other same-tier rounds. But that was on the internet. Norma-Tac .22lr is a solid performer, accuracy-wise, at its cost in my two .22lr rifles, both of which are 16" barrel. I don't chrono, so I can't speak to velocity steadiness. I wouldn't choose it for serious accuracy competition, but I have shot Rifleman scores multiple times with it at Appleseed shoots, using two different rifles. T/CR 22, and .22lr dedicated AR, both with Holosun 403 ACSS.
Have a semi-auto pistol and rifle (Marlin 60). Both are finicky with ammo. MiniMags are slightly below the minimum velocity for the pistol. Stingers are more the recommended round (when I can find them). But it runs on MiniMags just fine. And the rifle gobbles them up and spits them out like butter. Eric N mentioned the Winchester White Box. Bought a couple when they were the only thing on the shelf. They wound up with my son's single-shot bolt action. Absolutely useless in my guns.
When I was a kid, my Dad got a beat-up Remington 514 included with a house he bought. The prior owner fed it rat-shot for educating stray dogs. I covered the stock with black friction tape and it continued the mission up in a couple different trees every night til we moved from there. When my sons came along, I passed this rifle down to my eldest when he turned five. My pet gunsmith and I cut the barrel to 16-1/8", miniaturized the stock, and replaced the issue el crappo sights with Remington centerfire rifle sights. We Parkerized the metal and I rubbed the wood with Tru-Oil, and he gave me a cracked extra stock which I repaired and refinished. Before we started cutting the barrel, we shot some standard velocity target .22s over his chronograph. The photo-screens were pretty new and he wanted to play with it. He shot some as he sawed off every inch, and then made the last cut on the lathe. IDR how long the barrel started out, but there wasn't a lot of difference when we got down between 20 and 16". "Not enough difference to make a difference". Anyhow I just replaced the bolt in that rifle for HIS son, so it's gone four generations now. It's getting actual rimfire target sights and maybe a chunk of rail for a red dot soon, and we're gonna get a plaque made for the stock with room for my grandson's descendants.
@@stevebucsh1681 My experience with subsonic rounds is that velocity variations between one round to the next have a greater impact to group size. Standard velocity deviations (1,200fps vs 1,250fps) at 40yds may slightly increase group size. Subsonic deviations (700fps vs 750fps) will significantly increase group size.
Paul, I dig how droll and analytical your channel is. Thanks for your service to our country and your dedication to firearms and firearm knowledge. You kick ass.
If you check out Bullberry's website for gun barrel and custom work sales, Fred documented 17HMR 1" at a time. What we see is with a small case, efficient cartridges, there is a point in barrel length where friction takes over and slows the projectile down and shorter barrels win out. I was shooting a 17" barreled 17 HMR and an acquaintance told me he had chosen a rifle with a 25" barrel to ring out all the velocity that he could, I told him about the testing. You can check out some of the documentation as well on cartridges like .357 mag. A 12" .357 mag will ring out, not all the velocity but close to compared with 16" and a 20" barrels. The reason I say this is, if you are looking for a braced pistol such as a Contender to mostly shoot suppressed ammo, a .357 mag can be a better choice than a go-to such as .300 BO. The reason I say this is bullet expansion at sub-sonic velocities, lots in .357, expensive, and few in .300BO.
A few decades ago I did a barrel length test in 22LR by starting with a long barrel bolt action rifle and cutting the barrel down and test firing it through a chronograph. I would fire a minimum or five shots at each barrel length. I started at 22 inches and finished at 1 inch. Between 16 and 20 inches the velocity was pretty constant. It was a little slower at 22 inches where it was about the same as the 14 inch barrel. Between 1 and 8 inches the velocity increase was rapid but seemed more constant between 8 and 16 inches. It was about 100 fps increase per inch between 1 and 8, and about 20 fps per inch between 10 and 16inches. I used Imperial High velocity ammunition that topped out at about 1240 fps.
That's pretty consistent with my experience. I chrono'd my 10 inch sbr and 16 inch rifle and average total fps difference was 50fps with HV ammo. Within 100 yards it doesn't make too much of a difference; It's only at longer ranges like 100-200 yards where hitting targets consistently becomes far easier with the 16 inch rifle than the SBR
This being largely a study related to the study that was done to determine what the length of a Rifle should be under US Law. .22lr was a "kids rifle" and general purpose enough that it was one of the standards chosen.
Great content, Paul! Keep it up. My experience with the accuracy of a .22lr has led me to believe that ammunition choice has a greater impact than barrel length and even scope vs iron sights. What I mean is, you need to shoot as many different types of ammo as you can, to see which one your rifle “likes.” Yes, there are some general statements like target ammo is normally better than the cheapest stuff you can find, but even then there are caveats. Much to my surprise and to the benefit of my wallet, my Savage bolt action shoots more accurately with CCI standard than any of the 7 “match” ammunitions I tried. “Keep up the Fire.”
I have a Marlin Glenfield Model 20 bolt action. When I was young all we had at the hardware store were Federal Lightnings. It shoots really well to about 100 yards. With CCI Minimags 150 used to be easy. I am not as good as I once was.
The funniest thing about Pop-Tarts is the difference between the product presentation on the outside of the box (1970s version) and what you get inside the box (2022 shrinkflation version). I think you need to stack up three or for of today’s version to get the delicious nutrition of the original version. Interesting video. I would not have thought about a barrel being too long before.
The modern Pop Tarts suck. They were way thicker back in the 70s. And since no one has said it, the whole Paul Harrell Pop Tarts ad is based on the 70s Camel cigarette ad. Paul sorta looks like that guy. Don't believe me look it up.
I have a Stevens 22-410 that was made in 1939 with a 24" barrel. It's an excellent small/upland game gun that comes with my family's history, my great grandpa was the original owner and he hunted with it for decades. It's reliable on 4" at 75yds so long as you can sharpshoot a bead sight lol. Either way, I've always wondered how much of it's quietness comes at the expense of my velocities 😅
Interesting findings. Testing with a chrono is good information. I use one when load developing my hunting loads for deviation purposes. I never focus much on velocity, but DO get excited when the velocity between one shot and the next starts to become larger. I have found when standard deviation decreases, accuracy improves. For 22LR, since I cannot reload it, I just find the ammo that works (most accurate) for my particular gun.
Yeah you gotta avoid ammo that has velocities around the sound barrier, if a round starts super sonic and slows to sub sonic the round destabilizes and leads to inaccuracy. I like ammo that has velocities in the 1350-1450 range as it avoids this issue for most practical ranges. It does reduce your effective range to 120 instead of 150 though, this is due to the lighter bullet weights.
I once met a man who bought a rim thickness gauge and sorted out his 22lr ammo with it . He was of the belief that consistent rim thickness was an important element of rimfire cartridge accuracy among other elements . I never found out how well that worked .
I spent the better part of a year and a few thousand rounds looking for the most accurate and predictable .22lr that cost less than Wolf, SK, and/or the various Eley target rounds. I settled on a couple of rounds made in Mexico with Eley loadings, both of which are no longer available. The most accurate ammo in my tests were all rated on the box at 1200 fps or slower. I used OnTarget, a fired-target evaluation app for PC, and an Excel spreadsheet to identify Standard Deviation from the aim point and group center, and removed flyers from a group when their SD was way beyond average, because to me that identified true flyers better than looking at a target and tossing something out for subjective reasons.
Paul, please launch a line of merchandise, or affiliate with the manufacturer to get a sales commission - I would love to own the jacket that you have. Something tells me that your other viewers might want that also (please like if you agree). With love from Canada! Cheers!
About 16 to 18" or so. Shorter and you won't max velocity and will have excessive muzzle report for the cartridge... plus run into legal hassles in some areas. Over 18" and you're likely killing velocity with most ammunition which may also have a detrimental effect on accuracy. Keep up the good work as always, Paul!
Higher velocity does not automatically increase accuracy, at least at typical 22LR ranges of 25-100m. *Consistency* of whatever velocity you are getting is far more important, especially since 22LR is notorious for large standard deviation of velocity.
@@jarink1 very true. The destabilisation of a projectile slowing down in the barrel due to insufficient powder for barrel length generally reduces accuracy, too, which is what I'm referring to here. A shorter barrel in a given profile will be stiffer so there's that to consider as well. All being equal I'd take an 18" over a 22" in 22LR, but really we're splitting hairs pretty fine. Quoting the good Mr Harrell, if your rifle works for you then that's all you need.
@@boingkster destabilizing in the barrel? Where can the bullet go but forward? It's so tightly fitted to the bore that the rifling is engraving a pattern on it. I've heard of destabilizing due to velocity change outside of the barrel. Can you explain?
I love my Marlin 2000. Essentially a 60 action with a heavy barrel and micro groove. It's boringly accurate out to 100. I still get excited every time I get it out. I've got some high powered stuff as well, but 22lr is way more fun than should be allowed.
the model 60 does have critical problem..the hammer will break a chuck off and then it will not hit the firing pin..had two model 60 rifles fail idenicaly after a couple thousand rounds!
oh I was wrong in my comment. My 2000 is a modified 25 bolt action. Yes the 60 has weak points. The pinned barrel an mag tube are kinda delicate. I've seen a few easily ruined by old fellas taking a small fall in the woods.
@@recondrone1776 That's just crappy luck. I've owned two, one Manufactured in 1972, the other in 1986. Thousands of rounds through both, zero mechanical failures of parts. My first gun was the 1972 version... Wish I still had that one. Bought the 1986 version for $60 in 1995. The owner thought it was a POS jamo-matic. It was barely used... I took it apart, cleaned/lubed it, and adjusted the ejector spring. It's been running like a charm ever since... One of my favorite plinkers.
@@clutchcargo1239 could be but seems to be a problem from my perspective..first one was bought in the early 80's brand new at a Kmart for 29 or 39 bucks used it for years hunting and plinking then one day it stopped firing but I could hear the hammer drop thinking it was a worn out firing pin i took it apart and the hammer was broke..i eventually replaced the hammer and it works fine to this day but i don't send as many round down it like i did before..second one was bought second hand in good condition and eventually failed like the first one..I'm thinking rapid firing is what cause the failures..their still a great gun and will drive a tack..probably one of the most accurate semi auto 22LRF out there in my opinion..I could punch hole in a dime at 40 yards!
Thanks for the clarification .. My 10/22 has the 18.5" barrel and I really hadn't thought too much on this topic. It's a comfortable rifle , shoots well and ... it does what it's suppose to do.
My favorite.22 is a Remington model 34 with a long barrel. It’s really the site radius that makes it a tack driver. Oh, and I have had it for thirty years… that probably makes me more comfortable with it.
Every time I'm looking for info on a topic and there's a Paul Harrell video in the results, that's the first one I click on. Thanks for everything, Paul.
Excellent video, as always. Many times we get caught on popular believes, discuss them from a position that is not supported by real knowledge and/or data. With Paul that is not an issue, he shows the data and let the viewer to bring the conclusions. I said this before, he is a real educator. I should know, been working on this are for almost 20 years. He is an entertainer, I would not dream to fast forward the chronograph. But more than anything else he is down to hearth, if I had the inclination and means I could replicate his experiments, no fancy equipment, no outrageous claims, just bring the guns, the meat target, and the soda jugs and WE COULD REPLICATE HIS TESTING. So, thank you. I do appreciate yours (and the crew) time and efforts.
It would be interesting to compare velocities of 22LR rifles with the same barrel length, but of different design. Auto-loader vs bolt action vs lever action, and then just for fun throw in different barrel lengths of each as well. Great content, I was happy to see that when we had a function issue Paul didn't shoot the rifle at the end. Also a good thing the chart holder didn't mess up.
Absolutely perfect timing for this topic. I'm in the market for a new 22 LR rifle and this question has been on my mind. Thanks for selecting a good topic and, as usual, an excellent presentation.
I literally just got my first .22 rifle yesterday, an old Browning BL-22 grade II with what's probably an equally old Bushmaster 4x scope. Plan to shoot it this weekend. I have a CZ 457 Varmint and scope coming. I remember C&Rsenal's Winchester 1897 video dropped within a few days of my having picked one up at a pawn shop too.
I would like to see a comparison between action types (lever action, bolt action, semi-auto). The barrel length data was very interesting though. Thank you, Paul and crew. As always, excellence was achieved.
Thanks Paul. I like your dry sense of humor it's hilarious and the best part about your videos is that you let the rifle and the numbers speak for itself not somebody trying to sell something
Thanks Paul, another great video which confirmed my suspicions. Maybe someday you can do a video using subsonic .22 ammo with different barrel lengths.
The problem I've encountered with subsonic ammo is the difference from one round to the next. 75fps difference from one round to the next at 1,200fps won't affect your group nearly as much as at 700fps.
@@jacka55six60 Subsonic and standard velocity tend to be more accurate due to the transition from supersonic to subsonic with high velocity .22 ammo. This transition usually happens after 50 years.
When a few of us old guys get together and one of them starts to complain that nobody younger than us has the wherewithall or competence to tell it like it is.......I give them your youtube channel. I know your getting on, but your still a youngster to some of us. Thanks
I saw the Harrell thumbnail and I immediately craved a pop tart. Paul...how have you not been hired by those guys? It's the missed marketing opportunity of the decade.
Every time Paul refers to himself as the average shooter , it always brings a smile. oops someone posted that already . I'd like to see Paul shoot with 22plinkster or Kirsten Joy Weiss
I recently bought a "used" LA322 Deluxe by Chiappa and it's really gotten me back into plinking. Lever-actions have always been attractive to me, and this LA322 is probably the smoothest I've ever fired and its accuracy is top-tier. I'm looking forward to rabbit hunting with it later this year, too. 👍
Pressure doesn't magically become zero the moment combustion ends. Sure it will decrease, and there will be a point when P < friction, but that point is somewhat after combustion stops. Some of that extra barrel length will provide net motive power to the bullet. Just clarifying.
Interesting experiment Paul. Ballistics by the inch, did a lot of work on this also. I actually appreciate having too long a barrel for my cz 455, keeps the shots hearing safe without ear plugs.
BBI is my go to, their optimal length varies between 12 and 14 inches. This is consistent with highly accurate modern position rifles Anschutz, Feiwerkbau, etc. where minuta are important. To make them legal outside of the National Firearms Act and give you a longer sighting radius as they use aperture and globe sights a tube commonly called a bloop tube is installed to extend the barrel and mount the globe sight. A longer rifled barrel also gives you longer to flinch throwing off your shot.
I use a 24" BB on my 10/22 to slow my rounds down. Its a suppressed setup , with the longer barrel, I can run most Match and many standard(cheep) velocity rounds , SubSonic out of the barrel. Some times subsonic is harder to find, and in most cases the nice match is still cheaper then the sub
I love your POP-Tart ads and hope you're getting well recompensed for your effort! 🍩 - Glad to see my rifle made your testbed 7:57 Now that I've finished watching the entire video - I've been impressed by 3 thoughts: 1. I'm ordering a Stainless Ruger take-down 10/22! 2. I believe you've whet my whistle to see one of your exceptionally loooooong videos comparing many different .22lr ammos in the 16.5", 18.5", 19" and 22" barrel rifles - in order to find the ammos which best like each length barrel and could be expected to favor one's own barrel length rifle, replete with target groups. 3. I wish I could've added in my Winchester Model 67, 27" bbl bolt .22lr rifle. It would've been interesting to see how a barrel of that length might've additionally slowed the Mini-Mags & RGBs.
You know, I hear you, but be careful what you wish for. There are so many firearm channels that pump out video after video after video, and in most of them there are some pretty obvious quality and sometimes even credibility tradeoffs. Of course, there are a few notable exceptions. It would be a full-time job, I imagine, to put the amount of time and thought into these that Paul seems to, and put out a video once or twice a week. Or, worse, he'd have to become a corporate shill in the process to fund the larger volume. Instead, a new Harrell video is like an unexpected gift, and I am fine with that.
@@Tr4wnet He did a collab with ASP not too long ago...where they worked together to make John look like a complete tool (although he generally does that pretty well on his own).
In the UK our minimum rifle barrel length is 30 cm or 11 3/4 ins and we all use moderators so sub sonic is all I ever use. A 12 inch barrel on my Ruger 10/22 fitted with a moderator produces 3/4 inch group at 150 yards using subsonic. My Browning Buckmark carbine with a 12 inch barrel fitted with a moderator produces a group just under an inch at 150. That is all the practical accuracy you need for a .22 vermin rifle.
I grew up with my Marlin 60 standard barrel length whatever it was they came with standard back in the 90’s but I recently purchased a Rossi RS22 in an 18 inch barrel and I’m very pleased with the accuracy and performance. Haven’t taken it out past 100 yards though or figured out drop.
A firearm and barrel length is very similar to vehicle exhaust header lengths. The explosion in the barrel creates a pressure wave that bounces back and forth. This is why you can see some longer barrels having lower velocity than shorter barrels. Then of course once you get too long the bullet will be pulling a vacuum behind it slowing it down. If everything is timed perfectly for length and a specific pressure then higher velocities can be achieved. Can't really design for this in a firearm due to inconsistencies in bullet weight, powder, PSI, etc. but they do for vehicles to create the most power at a certain rpm where the exhaust pulse pulls in more fresh air and fuel by creating a stronger vacuum in the cylinder.
Fun times. Thanks for answering a "question" that has been rumpling around my head (as I am about to purchase ANOTHER .22LR rifle)... but not enough to do my own research. Results make total sense. Thank You Mr Harrell
DDP tastes more like regular than any other soda, but it's taste IS different. Bigger question is, do Pop-Tarts taste more like Toast'ems or vice versa? Nice demo. If one was going to carry the 22 lr as a "truck gun" the shorter barrel would have the storage and deployment advantage, just as it would in thicker brush, or other narrow spaces.
I got here early & wanted to leave a clever, witty comment but couldn't think of anything quick enough, so... yeah. I'll think of something & come back later.
People have asked about velocity differences in bolt action rifles.
There's a video titled, ".22 rifle velocity bolt vs. semi" It is an excellent demonstration of the difference.
I can't post a link If someone would, that will be very helpful.
th-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/w-d-xo.html by the youtuber 314299 Shooting Channel, 6 years ago?
This one? th-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/w-d-xo.html
I found this one. The tester used a Stevens 87 that can fire semi auto or locked breech single shot. It had a 24" barrel to bad he didn't use the same ammo to add to this test.
th-cam.com/video/ALBb47wy3L0/w-d-xo.html
Figuring the extreme spread of the velocity on the rifles would be a better test as a barrel that's tighter will give more velocity than one that longer and looser.
Yes bolt action .22 rifle only..amazingly accurate
I always laugh a little when Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter" when he has a literal truckload of medals and awards for shooting better than other people. Gotta love that humility
At the risk of being "that guy" his .22 offhand groups do always look just kind of normal to me. Now, a lot of shooters, myself included, fall off in ability quickly with the more theatrical calibers.
That's how you know the whole world's in order. Lol
Well, he’s old now, so…
Yes. I clearly have some catching up to do 😃
Average among his peers?
R.I.P. Paul, the advice is timeless, I hope 30 years from now people will still find your videos informative and useful.
I like the chart holder. Hope you don't have to use the same system for a target holder.
😂😂👍
The new and improved meat target.
Ha! I was reading through comments while listening to chrono firings - - wondering what might have been used as a holder. When I finally saw...Yes, I laughed. "Field-expedient"
Surprisingly stable!
@@tommygatch LOL!!!!!!!!!
Dam i miss this dude, glad he put out answers for almost everything before he left
So a 16 inch 22lr barrel is ideal. Perfect. Thanks for all your work Paul!
Paul Harrel is to the “average shooter” as a Green Beret is to the regular infantry. Makes me chuckle every time Paul claims to be “the average shooter”.
well at least you cant blame his lack of skill for differences.
Say... Well, you never saw Mancheski shoot! Too bad he couldn't keep his left foot from his right foot when he marched. 😆 Drill Sargeant tried and tried because he had to go up and get a marksmanship medal, but to no avail.
I've been here since around 20k subs. Paul has remained the same. His style, demeanor, and presentation are the same now as they were then. That is the biggest compliment I think I can give him. Keep on doing what you do the way you do it Paul. It's real, and it works.
He’s a national treasure!
"If it ain't broke, ..."
I liked the episode where he was in the water splashing around...busted me up...love His humour.
He didnt get his start on YT. The man has been a real professional for a while now
I just realized that I subscribed just before he hit 100,000 subs, and how big a deal it seemed when he made the subsequent special. It's kind of strange that he hasn't gotten to 1 mil yet, it seemed like he was putting out a special every few months.
He earned my sub by being honest, informative, and entertaining without being boring or long winded.
The crack of a .22lr brings so many memories for me. As a little kid, my dad used to take me woodchuck and rabbit hunting with his old 1957 Winchester model 77. I no longer have my dad and miss him so much. But he gave me that old rifle before he passed and at least I still have that old rifle and take it out now and then to hear that cracking sound and bring back those memories.
Paul Harrell, the best firearms specialist on TH-cam.
Edit: Thanks for the support and thumbs up guys. Truly one of the best TH-cam communities around.
Did he shoot someone again
I'd go with Brandon Herrera, Demo Ranch, Hickock and Paul Harrell as a top 4 in no particular order as my favorite guntubers.
@@nickamalfitano3613 EXACTLY
Without a doubt!
And the best Poptarts specialist.
Paul Harrell's channel and Ian's Forgotten weapons channel are all you need
no love for C&Rsenal?
@@grben9959 they are also great but Ian an Paul are mandatory
I like that Paul refers to himself as "the average shooter"
As a certified non-professionel I think it's safe to say that Paul is somewhat above the average shooter.
Nah, just your average shooter with a literal bucket of trophies and medals from shooting competitions... plus all sorts of distinctions for marksmanship from both the Army and Marines. Paul's just like us :D
His body count is impressive
Paul doesn't shoot a round, the round runs away from him
I'm guessing he's an average shooter for a former marine and later soldier who is a combat infantryman who wins competitions?
IE not average 🤣🤣
Best firearms content on the interwebs! And the humor is on point. The added plus is all the practical information we get to digest! Thanks!
If there was such a thing as the interweb, Paul would be the best on it.
@@LTVoyager
Hey, don't knock the one thing I get from our British friends. Lol
Its between Mr. Harrell and James from TFBtv lol JK🤣
Agreed: hands down the very best.
@@Cityoftrees1911 James is halfahomo (shortyshorts) & has a cat, but no children...
“…accuracy can be achieved by the average shooter.”
And this is said with a straight face, as though Paul is an average shooter.
Yeah, what a standard for me to try for if Paul is "the average shooter". Maybe a few reincarnation cycles will do it?
He's no Jerry Miculek so I'd have to say he's average, on camera, but then again he's got all those trophies...tough call
My takeaway - no matter what .22lr rifle you own, CCI MiniMag is a solid performer at a reasonable price point.
Tested 40 gr CCI minimags through 3 rifles, along with 7 other types of ammo, and it was the most accurate in all 3. So that's what I pick up whenever out and about. Works well in the 22 conversion kit for a G19. One size fits all.
I've read some folks saying their rifle didn't like MM as much as some other same-tier rounds. But that was on the internet.
Norma-Tac .22lr is a solid performer, accuracy-wise, at its cost in my two .22lr rifles, both of which are 16" barrel. I don't chrono, so I can't speak to velocity steadiness. I wouldn't choose it for serious accuracy competition, but I have shot Rifleman scores multiple times with it at Appleseed shoots, using two different rifles. T/CR 22, and .22lr dedicated AR, both with Holosun 403 ACSS.
Minimags work for me.
I buy off brand ammo for plinking.
CCI MM had always been my most consistent .22lr round. WWB being the worst thing I've ever tried to shoot out of a semi auto .22.
Have a semi-auto pistol and rifle (Marlin 60). Both are finicky with ammo. MiniMags are slightly below the minimum velocity for the pistol. Stingers are more the recommended round (when I can find them). But it runs on MiniMags just fine. And the rifle gobbles them up and spits them out like butter. Eric N mentioned the Winchester White Box. Bought a couple when they were the only thing on the shelf. They wound up with my son's single-shot bolt action. Absolutely useless in my guns.
When I was a kid, my Dad got a beat-up Remington 514 included with a house he bought. The prior owner fed it rat-shot for educating stray dogs. I covered the stock with black friction tape and it continued the mission up in a couple different trees every night til we moved from there. When my sons came along, I passed this rifle down to my eldest when he turned five. My pet gunsmith and I cut the barrel to 16-1/8", miniaturized the stock, and replaced the issue el crappo sights with Remington centerfire rifle sights. We Parkerized the metal and I rubbed the wood with Tru-Oil, and he gave me a cracked extra stock which I repaired and refinished. Before we started cutting the barrel, we shot some standard velocity target .22s over his chronograph. The photo-screens were pretty new and he wanted to play with it. He shot some as he sawed off every inch, and then made the last cut on the lathe. IDR how long the barrel started out, but there wasn't a lot of difference when we got down between 20 and 16". "Not enough difference to make a difference".
Anyhow I just replaced the bolt in that rifle for HIS son, so it's gone four generations now. It's getting actual rimfire target sights and maybe a chunk of rail for a red dot soon, and we're gonna get a plaque made for the stock with room for my grandson's descendants.
I'm happy to see none of the rear sights fell off any of the rifles Paul used in this vodeo!
The PopTarts commercials always make me smile :D
A debate I've had at the gun club. Thanks Paul. Seems like this experiment would be more interesting from a .22 pistol.
The other interesting case would be with subsonic ammo
@@stevebucsh1681 My experience with subsonic rounds is that velocity variations between one round to the next have a greater impact to group size. Standard velocity deviations (1,200fps vs 1,250fps) at 40yds may slightly increase group size. Subsonic deviations (700fps vs 750fps) will significantly increase group size.
I would like to see a velocity comparison between
pistol barrels in 4 in and 6 in and then this chart.
Just for information purposes.
@@___meph___4547 ...that would be supersonic....
@@shawnr771 Lucky gunner labs has 2" vs 4" or close to it, tests in almost every caliber pistol.
" Field Expedient Chart Holder " , so THATS what its called !! I missed it the first time!
Paul Harrell referring to himself as "the average shooter" always cracks me up.
The only channel I'll sit through commercials for.
Paul is the GOAT
@0:07 Paul, the one reason that I most enjoy your channel, you are 110% not afraid to be you. Kudos sir and keep up the great work!
Paul is on his way to a million, he deserves it
Definitely does.
Thanks for the good information Paul. RIP THE GOAT
Paul, I dig how droll and analytical your channel is. Thanks for your service to our country and your dedication to firearms and firearm knowledge. You kick ass.
If you check out Bullberry's website for gun barrel and custom work sales, Fred documented 17HMR 1" at a time. What we see is with a small case, efficient cartridges, there is a point in barrel length where friction takes over and slows the projectile down and shorter barrels win out. I was shooting a 17" barreled 17 HMR and an acquaintance told me he had chosen a rifle with a 25" barrel to ring out all the velocity that he could, I told him about the testing. You can check out some of the documentation as well on cartridges like .357 mag. A 12" .357 mag will ring out, not all the velocity but close to compared with 16" and a 20" barrels. The reason I say this is, if you are looking for a braced pistol such as a Contender to mostly shoot suppressed ammo, a .357 mag can be a better choice than a go-to such as .300 BO. The reason I say this is bullet expansion at sub-sonic velocities, lots in .357, expensive, and few in .300BO.
A few decades ago I did a barrel length test in 22LR by starting with a long barrel bolt action rifle and cutting the barrel down and test firing it through a chronograph. I would fire a minimum or five shots at each barrel length. I started at 22 inches and finished at 1 inch. Between 16 and 20 inches the velocity was pretty constant. It was a little slower at 22 inches where it was about the same as the 14 inch barrel. Between 1 and 8 inches the velocity increase was rapid but seemed more constant between 8 and 16 inches. It was about 100 fps increase per inch between 1 and 8, and about 20 fps per inch between 10 and 16inches. I used Imperial High velocity ammunition that topped out at about 1240 fps.
That's pretty consistent with my experience. I chrono'd my 10 inch sbr and 16 inch rifle and average total fps difference was 50fps with HV ammo. Within 100 yards it doesn't make too much of a difference; It's only at longer ranges like 100-200 yards where hitting targets consistently becomes far easier with the 16 inch rifle than the SBR
[ATF has joined the chat]
This being largely a study related to the study that was done to determine what the length of a Rifle should be under US Law. .22lr was a "kids rifle" and general purpose enough that it was one of the standards chosen.
@@glennpearson3056 Statute of limitations
@@glennpearson3056 ATF agent: "Hey Justice Department, what's the statue of limitations on an SBR violation?"
Always a treat.
Paul is far better than an average shooter
Loving the new and improved, high tech chart holder.
The way Paul looks at the camera with a straight face and then points to himself and says “average shooter.“
My day just got better!
I literally just made a pop tart before I started the video. Definitely had a good laugh
Accept no substitutes
You will never be forgotten Paul !
Great content, Paul! Keep it up. My experience with the accuracy of a .22lr has led me to believe that ammunition choice has a greater impact than barrel length and even scope vs iron sights. What I mean is, you need to shoot as many different types of ammo as you can, to see which one your rifle “likes.” Yes, there are some general statements like target ammo is normally better than the cheapest stuff you can find, but even then there are caveats. Much to my surprise and to the benefit of my wallet, my Savage bolt action shoots more accurately with CCI standard than any of the 7 “match” ammunitions I tried. “Keep up the Fire.”
I have a Marlin Glenfield Model 20 bolt action.
When I was young all we had at the hardware store were Federal Lightnings.
It shoots really well to about 100 yards.
With CCI Minimags 150 used to be easy.
I am not as good as I once was.
Bloody legend. This fella is kind of like a Bill Nye the science guy of fire arms myths
The funniest thing about Pop-Tarts is the difference between the product presentation on the outside of the box (1970s version) and what you get inside the box (2022 shrinkflation version). I think you need to stack up three or for of today’s version to get the delicious nutrition of the original version. Interesting video. I would not have thought about a barrel being too long before.
The modern Pop Tarts suck. They were way thicker back in the 70s. And since no one has said it, the whole Paul Harrell Pop Tarts ad is based on the 70s Camel cigarette ad. Paul sorta looks like that guy. Don't believe me look it up.
i remember actually liking poptarts when i was a kid in the 90s now theyre just gross because theres no filling in them.
I remember when pop tarts didn't get lost in the toaster.....
First choice is blueberry, second choice is strawberry. Do not like the cinnamon ones, tastes like cardboard to me.
A pop tart intro!! Thank you Paul been missing those!
As an early GenXer who grew up seeing those "Where a Man Belongs" Camel ads, I love the parodies!
I have a Stevens 22-410 that was made in 1939 with a 24" barrel. It's an excellent small/upland game gun that comes with my family's history, my great grandpa was the original owner and he hunted with it for decades. It's reliable on 4" at 75yds so long as you can sharpshoot a bead sight lol. Either way, I've always wondered how much of it's quietness comes at the expense of my velocities 😅
I freaking love this channel.
Well done, My good teacher
Very helpful information. There's only so much speed you're going to get after a point.
Thanks brother!💌 Respect
Interesting findings. Testing with a chrono is good information. I use one when load developing my hunting loads for deviation purposes. I never focus much on velocity, but DO get excited when the velocity between one shot and the next starts to become larger. I have found when standard deviation decreases, accuracy improves. For 22LR, since I cannot reload it, I just find the ammo that works (most accurate) for my particular gun.
well less standard deviation does land more consistent results, tahnks for shraing man
@@mrvladimirputin9828 Da!
Yeah you gotta avoid ammo that has velocities around the sound barrier, if a round starts super sonic and slows to sub sonic the round destabilizes and leads to inaccuracy. I like ammo that has velocities in the 1350-1450 range as it avoids this issue for most practical ranges. It does reduce your effective range to 120 instead of 150 though, this is due to the lighter bullet weights.
I once met a man who bought a rim thickness gauge and sorted out his 22lr ammo with it . He was of the belief that consistent rim thickness was an important element of rimfire cartridge accuracy among other elements . I never found out how well that worked .
I spent the better part of a year and a few thousand rounds looking for the most accurate and predictable .22lr that cost less than Wolf, SK, and/or the various Eley target rounds. I settled on a couple of rounds made in Mexico with Eley loadings, both of which are no longer available. The most accurate ammo in my tests were all rated on the box at 1200 fps or slower. I used OnTarget, a fired-target evaluation app for PC, and an Excel spreadsheet to identify Standard Deviation from the aim point and group center, and removed flyers from a group when their SD was way beyond average, because to me that identified true flyers better than looking at a target and tossing something out for subjective reasons.
Brilliant as always. Watching from The Netherlands (West Europe) and anjoying.
Pop Tart full flavor.. In the green and white box.
Thank you for the data!!
Paul, please launch a line of merchandise, or affiliate with the manufacturer to get a sales commission - I would love to own the jacket that you have. Something tells me that your other viewers might want that also (please like if you agree).
With love from Canada! Cheers!
Loved your numbers “stand” today.
About 16 to 18" or so. Shorter and you won't max velocity and will have excessive muzzle report for the cartridge... plus run into legal hassles in some areas. Over 18" and you're likely killing velocity with most ammunition which may also have a detrimental effect on accuracy.
Keep up the good work as always, Paul!
Did you watch the video?
Higher velocity does not automatically increase accuracy, at least at typical 22LR ranges of 25-100m. *Consistency* of whatever velocity you are getting is far more important, especially since 22LR is notorious for large standard deviation of velocity.
@@jarink1 very true. The destabilisation of a projectile slowing down in the barrel due to insufficient powder for barrel length generally reduces accuracy, too, which is what I'm referring to here. A shorter barrel in a given profile will be stiffer so there's that to consider as well. All being equal I'd take an 18" over a 22" in 22LR, but really we're splitting hairs pretty fine. Quoting the good Mr Harrell, if your rifle works for you then that's all you need.
@@boingkster destabilizing in the barrel? Where can the bullet go but forward? It's so tightly fitted to the bore that the rifling is engraving a pattern on it. I've heard of destabilizing due to velocity change outside of the barrel. Can you explain?
No, he could NOT explain.
Thanks Paul. You're a legend.
The marlin model 60 22” bbl with marlin’s patented micro grooving is a formidable plinker.
I love my Marlin 2000. Essentially a 60 action with a heavy barrel and micro groove. It's boringly accurate out to 100. I still get excited every time I get it out. I've got some high powered stuff as well, but 22lr is way more fun than should be allowed.
the model 60 does have critical problem..the hammer will break a chuck off and then it will not hit the firing pin..had two model 60 rifles fail idenicaly after a couple thousand rounds!
oh I was wrong in my comment. My 2000 is a modified 25 bolt action.
Yes the 60 has weak points. The pinned barrel an mag tube are kinda delicate. I've seen a few easily ruined by old fellas taking a small fall in the woods.
@@recondrone1776 That's just crappy luck. I've owned two, one Manufactured in 1972, the other in 1986. Thousands of rounds through both, zero mechanical failures of parts. My first gun was the 1972 version... Wish I still had that one. Bought the 1986 version for $60 in 1995. The owner thought it was a POS jamo-matic. It was barely used... I took it apart, cleaned/lubed it, and adjusted the ejector spring. It's been running like a charm ever since... One of my favorite plinkers.
@@clutchcargo1239 could be but seems to be a problem from my perspective..first one was bought in the early 80's brand new at a Kmart for 29 or 39 bucks used it for years hunting and plinking then one day it stopped firing but I could hear the hammer drop thinking it was a worn out firing pin i took it apart and the hammer was broke..i eventually replaced the hammer and it works fine to this day but i don't send as many round down it like i did before..second one was bought second hand in good condition and eventually failed like the first one..I'm thinking rapid firing is what cause the failures..their still a great gun and will drive a tack..probably one of the most accurate semi auto 22LRF out there in my opinion..I could punch hole in a dime at 40 yards!
Your a old school legend Paul. Days on the force are not the same anymore
Thanks for the clarification ..
My 10/22 has the 18.5" barrel and I really hadn't thought too much on this topic.
It's a comfortable rifle , shoots well and ... it does what it's suppose to do.
This was good ! Thanks Paul
My favorite.22 is a Remington model 34 with a long barrel. It’s really the site radius that makes it a tack driver. Oh, and I have had it for thirty years… that probably makes me more comfortable with it.
Every time I'm looking for info on a topic and there's a Paul Harrell video in the results, that's the first one I click on. Thanks for everything, Paul.
My 16” heavy barrel on a Ruger 10/22, is by far my favourite in 22lr! Thanks Paul, great video again!
Excellent video, as always.
Many times we get caught on popular believes, discuss them from a position that is not supported by real knowledge and/or data. With Paul that is not an issue, he shows the data and let the viewer to bring the conclusions.
I said this before, he is a real educator. I should know, been working on this are for almost 20 years. He is an entertainer, I would not dream to fast forward the chronograph.
But more than anything else he is down to hearth, if I had the inclination and means I could replicate his experiments, no fancy equipment, no outrageous claims, just bring the guns, the meat target, and the soda jugs and WE COULD REPLICATE HIS TESTING.
So, thank you. I do appreciate yours (and the crew) time and efforts.
It would be interesting to compare velocities of 22LR rifles with the same barrel length, but of different design. Auto-loader vs bolt action vs lever action, and then just for fun throw in different barrel lengths of each as well. Great content, I was happy to see that when we had a function issue Paul didn't shoot the rifle at the end. Also a good thing the chart holder didn't mess up.
Yeah, I was kinda curious about that too. I'm guessing there would be a difference, but likewise only a small one.
Yes about time Paul it was needed
I'm getting to the age where putting the front sight farther away helps.
Excellent man 👏🏻
Yeah, baby!
I almost didn’t notice he had a guy holding the sign up the whole time. Love rewatching these old videos.
Absolutely perfect timing for this topic. I'm in the market for a new 22 LR rifle and this question has been on my mind. Thanks for selecting a good topic and, as usual, an excellent presentation.
I literally just got my first .22 rifle yesterday, an old Browning BL-22 grade II with what's probably an equally old Bushmaster 4x scope. Plan to shoot it this weekend.
I have a CZ 457 Varmint and scope coming.
I remember C&Rsenal's Winchester 1897 video dropped within a few days of my having picked one up at a pawn shop too.
Explained the drag of the bullet very well! Thanks Paul!!
I would like to see a comparison between action types (lever action, bolt action, semi-auto). The barrel length data was very interesting though. Thank you, Paul and crew. As always, excellence was achieved.
Thanks Paul. I like your dry sense of humor it's hilarious and the best part about your videos is that you let the rifle and the numbers speak for itself not somebody trying to sell something
Thanks Paul, another great video which confirmed my suspicions. Maybe someday you can do a video using subsonic .22 ammo with different barrel lengths.
The problem I've encountered with subsonic ammo is the difference from one round to the next. 75fps difference from one round to the next at 1,200fps won't affect your group nearly as much as at 700fps.
@@jacka55six60 Subsonic and standard velocity tend to be more accurate due to the transition from supersonic to subsonic with high velocity .22 ammo. This transition usually happens after 50 years.
When a few of us old guys get together and one of them starts to complain that nobody younger than us has the wherewithall or competence to tell it like it is.......I give them your youtube channel. I know your getting on, but your still a youngster to some of us. Thanks
I saw the Harrell thumbnail and I immediately craved a pop tart. Paul...how have you not been hired by those guys? It's the missed marketing opportunity of the decade.
Every time Paul refers to himself as the average shooter , it always brings a smile. oops someone posted that already . I'd like to see Paul shoot with 22plinkster or Kirsten Joy Weiss
Thanks Paul👍
I recently bought a "used" LA322 Deluxe by Chiappa and it's really gotten me back into plinking. Lever-actions have always been attractive to me, and this LA322 is probably the smoothest I've ever fired and its accuracy is top-tier. I'm looking forward to rabbit hunting with it later this year, too. 👍
May all your wabbits be wascawwy.
Pressure doesn't magically become zero the moment combustion ends. Sure it will decrease, and there will be a point when P < friction, but that point is somewhat after combustion stops. Some of that extra barrel length will provide net motive power to the bullet.
Just clarifying.
Always keep the chronograph!
Thanks for making the Optimal Barrel Length for 22lr video.
Interesting experiment Paul. Ballistics by the inch, did a lot of work on this also. I actually appreciate having too long a barrel for my cz 455, keeps the shots hearing safe without ear plugs.
BBI is my go to, their optimal length varies between 12 and 14 inches. This is consistent with highly accurate modern position rifles Anschutz, Feiwerkbau, etc. where minuta are important. To make them legal outside of the National Firearms Act and give you a longer sighting radius as they use aperture and globe sights a tube commonly called a bloop tube is installed to extend the barrel and mount the globe sight. A longer rifled barrel also gives you longer to flinch throwing off your shot.
Not what I was expecting thanks for posting paul
I use a 24" BB on my 10/22 to slow my rounds down. Its a suppressed setup , with the longer barrel, I can run most Match and many standard(cheep) velocity rounds , SubSonic out of the barrel. Some times subsonic is harder to find, and in most cases the nice match is still cheaper then the sub
Always good information, thank you for sharing
I love how Paul thinks he's an 'average' shooter.
I love your POP-Tart ads and hope you're getting well recompensed for your effort! 🍩 - Glad to see my rifle made your testbed 7:57
Now that I've finished watching the entire video - I've been impressed by 3 thoughts:
1. I'm ordering a Stainless Ruger take-down 10/22!
2. I believe you've whet my whistle to see one of your exceptionally loooooong videos comparing many different .22lr ammos in the 16.5", 18.5", 19" and 22" barrel rifles - in order to find the ammos which best like each length barrel and could be expected to favor one's own barrel length rifle, replete with target groups.
3. I wish I could've added in my Winchester Model 67, 27" bbl bolt .22lr rifle. It would've been interesting to see how a barrel of that length might've additionally slowed the Mini-Mags & RGBs.
Paul, only thing bad about your channel is there isn't enough videos released regularly.
@JCA ELITE SCUBA Still not enough. When will cloning be perfected?
I just wish he did a collab with some of the other gun YTers
You know, I hear you, but be careful what you wish for. There are so many firearm channels that pump out video after video after video, and in most of them there are some pretty obvious quality and sometimes even credibility tradeoffs. Of course, there are a few notable exceptions. It would be a full-time job, I imagine, to put the amount of time and thought into these that Paul seems to, and put out a video once or twice a week. Or, worse, he'd have to become a corporate shill in the process to fund the larger volume. Instead, a new Harrell video is like an unexpected gift, and I am fine with that.
I could not agree more with this statement. He is criminally underrated.
@@Tr4wnet He did a collab with ASP not too long ago...where they worked together to make John look like a complete tool (although he generally does that pretty well on his own).
In the UK our minimum rifle barrel length is 30 cm or 11 3/4 ins and we all use moderators so sub sonic is all I ever use. A 12 inch barrel on my Ruger 10/22 fitted with a moderator produces 3/4 inch group at 150 yards using subsonic. My Browning Buckmark carbine with a 12 inch barrel fitted with a moderator produces a group just under an inch at 150. That is all the practical accuracy you need for a .22 vermin rifle.
I grew up with my Marlin 60 standard barrel length whatever it was they came with standard back in the 90’s but I recently purchased a Rossi RS22 in an 18 inch barrel and I’m very pleased with the accuracy and performance. Haven’t taken it out past 100 yards though or figured out drop.
A firearm and barrel length is very similar to vehicle exhaust header lengths. The explosion in the barrel creates a pressure wave that bounces back and forth. This is why you can see some longer barrels having lower velocity than shorter barrels. Then of course once you get too long the bullet will be pulling a vacuum behind it slowing it down. If everything is timed perfectly for length and a specific pressure then higher velocities can be achieved. Can't really design for this in a firearm due to inconsistencies in bullet weight, powder, PSI, etc. but they do for vehicles to create the most power at a certain rpm where the exhaust pulse pulls in more fresh air and fuel by creating a stronger vacuum in the cylinder.
9:35 is that Roy holding up the sign? 😁
That's what I was thinking too and fairly sure it is
Fun times.
Thanks for answering a "question" that has been rumpling around my head (as I am about to purchase ANOTHER .22LR rifle)... but not enough to do my own research.
Results make total sense.
Thank You Mr Harrell
It's an amazing coincidence that I was just thinking about this lately, and what do you know, he makes a video on it!
as always... info, conversation, and revelation... time always well spent....
Paul is the GOAT! Is there anything this guy doesn’t know about firearms and how to use them? Me thinks not!
He is the Godfather of guns! 👍
Underwater fullauto harpoon rifles.
@@Xmara01
😂
@@johnanderson3405 it's a thing.
@@johnanderson3405 www.imfdb.org/wiki/APS_Underwater_Assault_Rifle
love the subtle sarcasm and awesome humor for the thinking mind, thank you for another great "expand the mind" presentation - an Army war doc
DDP tastes more like regular than any other soda, but it's taste IS different. Bigger question is, do Pop-Tarts taste more like Toast'ems or vice versa?
Nice demo. If one was going to carry the 22 lr as a "truck gun" the shorter barrel would have the storage and deployment advantage, just as it would in thicker brush, or other narrow spaces.
Pop tarts, like a man.
Pop-tarts! Cinnamon Brown Sugar or the fudge-y ones.
You're objectivity keeps me on. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I got here early & wanted to leave a clever, witty comment but couldn't think of anything quick enough, so... yeah.
I'll think of something & come back later.