Spicebush was already treated as a flex pick in Sinking teams before; Boss has SP? Bring Sinking Deluge. Like how KK Hong-Lu is just Cloud Cutter or R Heathcliff is just Quick Suppression; Spicebush Yi-Sang is just Sinking Deluge. But now that niche of being a set up nuke has been filled out by 2 other stuff; Gregor's new EGO+Butler Faust support, is an insane nuke even on enemy with SP, and 2.) Wildhunt Heathcliff, is both easier to set up and has consistent big flat damage. Not to mention Solemn Lament Yi-Sang, Butler Outis, and Rimeshank all deal really solid consistent damage.
None of the examples here come even close to the potential funny deluge, but I see your point. His kit really doesn't mesh well to a point where his only 2 skills are evade and s3.
The thing with Deluge is that it pops damage that was already there, while butterflies ADD damage (and also restore you SP). The only moment Deluge ADDs damage is against enemies with SP. Against enemies without SP, same thing as just popping your sinking.
Damage now > damage later Also the damage cap and halving against abnos really devalues butterfly in terms of damage as well, so ideally both should be used on human bosses anyways. That being said, SL does add damage pretty early, and thus makes fighting easily staggerable (preferrably human) enemies easier, so he has a far wider niche.
@@ultranumhereThing is, that "Damage now" had to be set up over multiple turns vs Butterfly just working. Deluge is a good finisher, but I sincerely believe you’re overvaluing it’s usefulness. Running people like Dieci Rodion or any sinking unit with a lot of coins will give you similar damage outputs to a sinking deluge because of how sinking itself works. UNLESS of course the enemy has sanity, in which case yeah, makes a ton of sense to use sinking deluge there. But other than that? It really just feels like a big number for the sake of it. I may disagree with your points, but keep up the good work. It’s good to have discussions on the game like this ^_^
I agree, spicebush can be strong for specific fights and setups, especially in MD but overall butterfly is much more consistent and less annoying to play around. Another issue with spicebush yi sang is that his s3 is often times massively detrimental to use basically being a dead draw until you can one shot the enemy, his s2 as well can also be a dead draw if you are trying to save tremor for his s3 nuke and his tremor gain is really bad without ryoshu if you do want his AOE for mob encounters or abnos with multiple body parts.
10:28 I would add the sixth one, that is the skill order. Spicebush can end up with 2 s2s and 1 s3 at the beginning of a fight, being generally useless for 2 turns.
I thought about adding this, but it's a pretty convoluted issue, and the chance of the skill order bricking your setup before you get a deluge out isn't super high.
I think they are just sidegrades and both have a valid position in the meta. You trade consistency and team support for absurd damage (his passive is crazy underrated), attack weight and an amazing evade which is a fair tradeoff.
Ngl this would be the case a couple updates ago, but Sinking already has multiple damage dealers, which push out Spicebush to a specific boss nuke role, and SL has him beat not only in all the other roles, but also in the lower HP bossfight department. Right now Spicebush is a hyperspecialist, and I wouldn't recommend using him over SL in an absolute majority of encounters.
@@ultranumhere A counterpoint is bosses are the single most important aspect of the game as far as enemies go. Being specialized in them isnt a bad thing at all and he has very good use cases in both railway which is our "endgame" content and mirror dungeon which is the most commonly played content both revolve around bosses with large enough healthbars to be completely valid for deluge. Sure you may want butterfly yi sang 70 percent of the time but when it comes to the truly big fights the shoe is on the other foot. I run butterfly on my story team and spicebush on the md team which feels like how it was intended.
@@richardomilos8686 Refraction Railway is actually one of the worst examples of this, as RR4 is mostly human fights, and bringing Bush for an encounter where only 1/3 of it is a bossfight will lead to him being dead weight in the other 2/3, whereas SL might not perform as well during the bossfight (but let's be real, Spicebush has no consistency, SL will win on even the bossfight quicker 5 out of 10 times), but it stomps in human fights. The wider Spicebush fan community needs to realise that in order to optimise the game as it is right now, Spicebush goes to the sidelines 70% of the time in his own niche. If all enemies in Limbus Company got their health doubled, he would be great. I'm not saying Spicebush is flawed, just that the game hasn't had any difficulty spikes that would force players to use Deluge to speed up their fights yet. Also mirror dungeons are a playground rather than a place of reasonable comparison, so do with that what you will.
being fair @@ultranumhere if we consider railway 4 sinking has so much flaws against the human encounters there's actually no reason to run it over just damage so honestly that much as an upside for Sollem But like the comment above me said, he is in fact better in most of the fights, but that thought that doesn't mesn SB is hyper specialized, as the 30%-40% he's better at is usually more significan in the contrary i think SL is a bit specialized, he is better for Sinking against mobs, weaker targets something that the archtype itself doesn't realy does that well compared to other options outside of Md putting him in a way more niche situation then SB being better om bosses when i think about the two i think like "if i can choose between Philip or Glimpse of Flames who would i pick for this encounter"
Found this very helpful as im newer and have less ids. I got conflicted early on because I got both of them immediately and wasn't sure which to go with.
Any thoughts about comparing Solemn Lament Gregor and Wingbeat Ishmael next? I think that it would be a decent topic since both are multi coin and reuse coin egos
SL Greg is going to be the topic of the next video, but it is very different from Wingbeat, and I probably won't be making it a comparison. Also the two are best used together, so here's that
i prefer solemn because of the living effect. it's not that big, at most 3 sp per coin, but if you run a team with a lot of coins and yi sang happens to go first with a skill 3 ready, that comes out to 9-12 extra sp for everyone on your team (granted you all hit the same enemy). that's roughly equivalent to an extra clash win, and it can make or break the difference in a lot of scenarios. one that particularly comes to mind is erlking heathcliff's gloom phase, where butterfly can basically completely negate the sp drain effect if you can set it up. spicebush does significantly more damage, but it's significantly more comfortable thanks to the sp recovery and non-existent set-up phase which has the added benefit of being much more usable outside of sinking comps. also, gun.
Spicebush is "set up then nuke" Solemn is "continued support and damage" with its butterflies providing sp regen and more damage on top of sinking. Spicebush applies sinking next turn which can mess with your sinking stack, Solemn doesnt have alot of sinking in its kit. Deluge is VERY good against bosses with or without sanity, but only in MD and stuff alike, in normal content the boss is gonna be dead before you can get deluge while Solemn has sanity issues and even at 45 sp reloading is gonna cost you about 15 sp and that 20% chance can cost you ALOT but if you want a nuke for sinking you have Erlcliff who pretty much NEEDS his S3 for coffin but he is a whole 'nother issue. Overall i think it just comes down to what units you have and are willing to use. Oh and also Solemn has better rolls on skill 1
From my experience, SolemnSang has his rightful spot next to spicebush because he does not rely very heavily on skill 3. My luck on skill rolls are not the best and can usually go several turns in MDR without rolling a S3(which ended my run a couple times, I vividly remember my bones being claimed by Kim). The sanity restoration with butterfly is also pretty neat not to mention reloads on S3 making it fairly spammable in some cases
In my opinion, Spicebush has a higher potential cap, but requires a lot of restrictions and teambuilding to function. He's slow to get started without the Ryoshu support, and that's not even counting if you get a dead draw and get S2s or an ill timed S3. Using his evade to preserve his Tremor Count just means you're missing out on more damage turn by turn, and just overall, he's not so much a Sinking Unit as a Sinking Finisher. This is best seen with how he falls off a bit in the Refraction Railways, his best showing being in 2, where he was used to get around the annoying stall gimmicks of many of the bosses, but besides that one niche was outclassed by every other team comp. And ever since then he's slowly dropped off as more consistent IDs in his niche popped up, like Bonk Faust and Dawn Sinclair, who is literally just 'Spicebush but Burn' with better coins and DPS, offset by the sanity mechanic. Solemn Lament meanwhile is just extremely consistent, requiring few, if any resets to get started, and integrates perfectly with a Sinking Team. Besides the rare and unfortunate instance where you get all S1s in a row at the beginning, he provides a lot of useful support for a Sinking team while barely disrupting the sinking chain. In the case of RR4, substituting in SL Yi Sang resulted in a 5 turn faster time, with his S3 being both an effective boost when starting off a new area, and as a spot finisher against non-boss targets, as most enemies witthout Pierce Resist flat out died from the mini-deluge on it, or if they did, were staggered. Against Bosses, they also fared well. While not as Bombastic as Spicebush, having a S2 or S3 going into Lament Gregor allowed for an even quicker nuke, since the Living, combined with Butler Faust, allowed for consistent Max Coin Rolls on the skill, wracking up hundreds of damage, and usually staggering the boss. And there wasn't anything stopping me from repeating that process the next turn. I also just want to point out that the test was tampered with since I wanted to get 64 Turns (I just like to pick symbolic numbers for the Railways. 108 for RR1, 123 for RR2, 64 for RR3, and originally 69 for RR4 (It was supposed to be a dualiity thing due to the theatre masks, but the number had bad connotations, so I changed it for my next attempt, which was this. 52 was a bit too grindy for my taste.) so give or take a few turns for both attempts. Point stands that there was a slight increase in completion speed just by switching out those two.
Funny deluge always saves me a ton of time by nuking the bosses in Ritornello. If needed, I can always use WH Heath's S4 + Rags to clash and let Yi Sang go unopposed and boom, instant 8k. Still though, outside of that, his only consistent clashers are S3 and sometimes S2 with his conditionals as his S1's clashing is just.. slightly below average at best and non-existent at worst. For more comfortable and consistent pick, go for the funny dingding.
Cant wait for Canto 7 to have a shit ton of negative coin bosses or bleed count/pot to the atker equal to the sinking pot/count inflicted. That being said: Sinkussy
Ngl I really want sinking to become even more popular (even though it seems to be the most popular team comp anyways) so that when Kim 2.0 releases the community will implode
I'm aware that others have pointed this out by this point, but Sinking Deluge doesn't get buffed by the tremor count effect, and as a result you seem to be massively overvaluing its effects. Outside of the funny unga bunga number, the value of Deluge was twofold: allowing sinking teams to actually deal damage against enemies with SP and hyper specific railway strats. In human fights I can see the value of your advice at 7:40 aka keeping up your sinking count as much as possible for your deluge. I could proceed to counter that you shouldn't be bringing sinking teams to human fights in general, but I'm aware that mirror dungeons exists and several human bosses just get shut down by low SP. (Although if its a negative SP human boss like Kim you have made a grave error) Against enemies who actually take damage from sinking this is actually a horrible idea, if you can use skills that increase potency without getting rid of all of the sinking you are actually reducing the total damage dealt at the cost of a bit of deluge damage. For some quick math say an abnormality has 50 potency 10 count and a 1x gloom weakness. If i were to do a sinking deluge on that target would deal: Coin 1: 50 gloom damage Coin 2: 50 gloom damage Coin 3: 50 gloom damage Sinking Deluge: 450 gloom damage Total gloom damage: 600 If I were to say use the S1 of Edgar Gregor, which is a 1 coin skill that inflicts 3 potency, and follow it up with a deluge the sinking damage would be Gregor Coin 1: 50 Gloom damage Yi Coin 1: 53 Gloom damage Yi Coin 2: 53 Gloom damage Yi Coin 3: 53 Gloom damage Sinking Deluge: 424 damage Total gloom damage: 633 damage Additionally if the deluge somehow doesn't kill you need to rebuild all of your sinking from the ground up with is pretty terrible. Solemn Lament Yi Sang fulfills a very similar role to spicebush on a sinking team, as he can use butterfly to allow sinking teams to deal damage to enemies with SP with a bit less setup required, although inflicting 1 departed with his S1 isn't actually impactful in any meaningful way.
The dogwater S1 and the AoE of his S2 being completely unusuable made me fall off on Spicebush so hard💀. You could show me a compilation of him soloing the entire game and I still would hate myself using him.
Solemn lament yisang is arguably the better one since it takes me back to the floor of technological science and I just miss reducing my IQ to room temperature in winter.
Spicebush are perfect for setup and aoe build while butterfly is for less setup so basically like spicebush is better on mirror run while butterfly is better on story mode or any fast clear
I personally like Solemn Lament more because his Sinking is either Neutral or Positive Losing Gluttony isnt a problem for me since i run Butler Ish My Sinking Team ends up as Solemn Lament Yi Sang Wild Hunt Heathcliff Edgar Heir Gregor Dieci Rodion Butler Outis Butler Ishmael
The only thing I don't like about Peak Sang is that he doesn't have any Gluttony (was my only source of Glut.), making my Sunshower completely unusable rn. And the only other source of Glut. I could get would be from Dieci Meursault, who I don't have, nor am I planning on including him in my team...
You don't really want Sunshower in sinking tbh so it's kinda a fair trade off it's good and all but not really necessary especially since there's not too much sloth In sinking teams
@@ultranumhere I know, I'm doing fine as is right now (I love Peak Sang - he's huge). I'm just sad my maxed EGO is gonna go to waste for now (maybe I'll just use Spice Sang for fun some times, or maybe there'll be fights where deluge will really pay off).
Dieci meursault is actually not that terrible, as without bush you don't actually need that much sinking count, all you need to do is keep it at 2 or above, and most of the modern sinking ids have decent count sustainability
I have a video on charge teams on my channel if you want to learn more about them. W Corp Yi Sang is not exactly a good Charge Identity, no. He rolls lower than many other charge Identities, and Pierce is also not a prevalent damage type in that team, so his best enemies differ from those of most strong Charge units.
I chose lament not because of dmg but because i can inflect the ptsd i endure in LOR it wasnt fair i endure that shit show so why is it fair that the enemies didnt endure it? It a win in my book
I've got a video on sinking teams! replace spicebush by Solemn Lament, and you get what I consider to be the best team. You mostly want to pair him up with the Butlers, Molar Ishmael, WH Heathcliff and Edgar Greg for maximum Sinking damage efficiency.
One thing that people keep failing to bring up in regards to Spicebush - including this video - is his downright bad skill 1. It genuinely feels like a total waste to use most of the time.
It's good in the earlier turns, because you can carry over some count into a Rime Shank turn, giving you a better initial pot of SInking to work with. After that it's a dead draw tho
Well for me spicebush is better in mdh and lament is better in story and rr. Case of gifts it's really not that hard to stack 99 sinking and do the bomba in mdh
Dieci isn't that bad tbh, all the diecis are fairly good due to the discard allowing them to tank more then average ID's without the need of healing allowing for resource saving.
bro his only source of sinking count is s3, which still goes negative due to coin count, his s1 is dead weight (who cares about his tank properties when he can't hit back), and his s2 inflicts an inconstistent amount of sinking that isn't stellar even at its best. He also just doesn't have good rolls at all, his best skill in terms of power is his s2 with 16 power, and while s3 ties that, it requires him to be at 50% HP or less which is a crazy conditional to have in the big 2024 when most bosses 3-shot unless you resist. His whole gameplay is block-s2-block-s2, his damage is abhorrent, his clash power is low and his sinking infliction is non-existent. All he wants is to be hit, but what is the purpose of that when Spicebush can do the same sinking-on-defence magic trick but without taking any damage?
@@ultranumhere For me who had yet to get alot he worked well enough to protect most my units till i could get better IDs that could instead of just redirecting and tanking could redirect and win the clashes. It was a point before I caved in and just bought fluid sac with 2600 lunacy too. The entire point is to use whatever ID's traits they have until you can get the better ones. So Dieci isn't that bad.
@@quintessenceoflife7870 this isn't the point of the video though. If you're scraping by on whatever you can get in the early game then you shouldn't exactly be entering discussion on Identity strength, respectfully.
@@ultranumhere Then why do you bring up identity strength outside of the 2 being discussed about for the video of spicbush and solemn lament? There'd be no reason to bring the others into discussion.
Me and you will be the only two people glad to see u5. It's super unpopular as an idea, but some of these Identities desperately need some better effect infliction and/or more power to not be entirely forgotten.
@@ultranumhereI feel like UT5 will be used as a reset button for when the power creep / coolness creep starts to set in big, treating the power crept IDs like Rcliff UT4 and allowing the weaker IDs to catch up
Spicebush is actively dogshit. The clash numbers have always been terrible, even on release, and the only thing is has going for it is funny deluge damage that barely functions outside of MD anyway. Dude was barely worth running even on launch, this vid did not need to happen lmfao.
You're a hater, he's not that good outside his niche, but T4 Rime shank and the Echoes of the Manor + Bygone Days interaction make Deluge infinitely easier to set up than on release. If you haven't used him in a while, he's definitely gotten better over the course of this season. Sadly for the flower man, a much more consistent way of converting Sinking to physical damage is out now, and, well, the video tells you how they stack up against eachother.
I was hoping on a "worst ID 2024" for Dieci yi sang, but i gues this good too. Seriously, i have 8 teams with no repeats ID for MD weeklies, and i have 0 reason to put him in ANY of them or have space for him anymore. PS: The Buttefly is stupidly complicated in that has 2 effects, then a decay effects. Making it the most complex effect to this day, not to mention calling is the SAME as the bullets.
solemn lament yi sang WILL get nerfed, when I use it I don't even need to think about playing the game, you could just throw his skills at random and he'd still beat every enemy. It's also like 5 times stronger than the lobcorp version
No, he won't. He's specifically powerful in the new event, but he's not even the best Yi Sang Identity. His physical damage lies entirely in his s3, his effect is double-capped, you virtually never get to heal over 1 sp with butterfly, the half damage on abnos really shows itself outside of md, and he's got a block skill for a defense, which is definitely weaker than an evade on a character like him. He's very easy to use and is an above-average Sinking Identity, but saying that he deserves a nerf overrates him a lot.
@@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180 to be fair, that's fixing a bug that made him better than he was supposed to be - which really speaks to how bad he is if he was still considered D Tier pre-patch, but still.
Actually spice bush doesn’t win potential, all of his damage effectively requires you to have already won the fight, you have All your conditionals active, you’re constantly keeping the sinking high (a Herculean feat with spicebush constantly being a dead unit since he can’t clash and even if he could every skill is 3 sinking negative until next turn except skill 1, which even then still needs you to wait a turn before it becomes neutral) and as you yourself directly pointed out the higher end of damage on deluge is unrealistic to even approach. Sure you could get maybe 1-2k but then your effectively back at zero, better hope the boss doesn’t have a built in phase transition, or a gimmick that makes them immortal for a while, or just rolls decently high. And this is also ignoring the fact “high damage dealer” isn’t a hard thing to do on sinking anymore with Erlking heathcliff just doing way better way more consistently. AND none of this is factoring in the potential turns lost from spicebush not being active in the fight, since he can’t clash, and you don’t want him to hit the enemy anyway since he’s so comically count negative you can’t get his sanity up, and your losing whatever damage he could apply, your effectively fighting with a sinner dead the entire time so deluge doesn’t even necessarily save time in fights since most fights realistically would end a turn or two early ANYWAY if you had a 6th I’d to actually do something. This also means it’s very difficult to get tremor on him for his skill 3’s second conditional. Tl:dr his realistic potential the only part that actually matters is actually way lower
In fact RAW potential does not matter at all, if there was an ego that did 9 billion damage flat but you had to have 99 burn count on something for whatever reason for it to work, it would be trash nobody would use it, since there’s no actual way to have a fight last long enough for it to matter. The theoretical limits don’t matter in the slightest if you can’t realistically get near them.
Also also: no spamming defend on every ID that’s not going positive on count so you can get more sinking count on human fights IS counter productive you could have just killed them with actual raw damage by the time you get sinking deluge online. Why wait several turns extra turns when you could just…. Hit them normally and win that way. The math here ain’t mathing
Potential: noun noun: potential; plural noun: potentials 1. latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness. Spicebush is ABLE to deal an immense amount of damage that far outshines Solemn Lament, thus he, by default, wins POTENTIAL. The importance of this category is up for every viewer to decide on their own. Also, as a response to your second point: 99 burn is actually a lot easier to get than any other debuff, so a 99 burn nuke would actually go pretty hard. Additionaly, take a look at Everlasting. Effectively exactly an ego that you described, and has metawarped tremor around the loop of "stack count+pot -> convert to reverb -> time mora -> evarlasting". (iirc time mora wasnt in the picture when everlasting dropped but you get my point.) Your third comment also only really works against abnormalities, and I already said that sinking deluge is best used on humans. Also, if you're running a team for the sole purpose of optimal play, sinking isnt really the way to go. You can get better results by using Charge and Poise against enemies weak to their most prominent damage types, bleed is great on bosses, and tremor/time mora bullies anything sloth-weak. For even better effectiveness, custom-building a team for each encounter always beats any sinking team, or any other team for that matter. Sinking is a very new player friendly team, and has its niche use cases courtesy of the exact ID you hate. It's never been the meta anyways, so if you want to hyperspecialize in phaseskipping a boss (which was a very prominent niche back in RR2, and can come back at any point), you can, and it's not a sin to lower your conventional damage to let Deluge do its job.
@@ultranumhere tell me you didn’t actually read what I had to say without telling me you didn’t actually read what I had to say. My entire point was your category is fundamentally flawed hence the “realistic potential” point raw potential means nothing, as your realistically not going to reach that potential, something viability should not be measured based on its theoretical maximum but instead what your actually likely to achieve, further you yourself admit later in the video that you waste significant amounts of time and therefor damage by having to constantly defend spam to keep sinking count up, which itself takes AWAY his potential damage as frankly you would likely deal 1-2k damage cumulatively by the time spicebush can deluge. So his potential damage matters even less, since your not actually doing more damage then you would without spicebush, burst damage means nothing if you would have killed the target before you finished setting up the burst, a point you also conceded in the video. My point stands 99 burn count is significantly easier to achieve yes, but realistically most fights are over before you can (with the exception of mirror dungeons where everything can reach 99 pretty easily)
@@ultranumhere and further my point stands stands even more on human fights, as the third point was “you could have killed them with RAW DAMAGE, not sinking, by the time sinking deluge would be ready if you just… had another unit that can actually clash and by extension deal damage to the human targets. Abnormalities die easy to regular sinking without deluge anyway. So I don’t even see what your point of contention even is.
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I choose Solemn Sang not based on the strength or potential, solely for the
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING
Fair point, should've made that in the video
Choose Spicebush cause he was my first 000 ID
@@acyanone2674 i chose solemn lament cause he was literally my first ID that i pulled on my first time playing limbus
Same, his skill 3 is so satisfied
Spicebush was already treated as a flex pick in Sinking teams before; Boss has SP? Bring Sinking Deluge. Like how KK Hong-Lu is just Cloud Cutter or R Heathcliff is just Quick Suppression; Spicebush Yi-Sang is just Sinking Deluge.
But now that niche of being a set up nuke has been filled out by 2 other stuff; Gregor's new EGO+Butler Faust support, is an insane nuke even on enemy with SP, and 2.) Wildhunt Heathcliff, is both easier to set up and has consistent big flat damage. Not to mention Solemn Lament Yi-Sang, Butler Outis, and Rimeshank all deal really solid consistent damage.
None of the examples here come even close to the potential funny deluge, but I see your point. His kit really doesn't mesh well to a point where his only 2 skills are evade and s3.
i've never noticed butler faust's support before but wow, that is absurd synergy.
3:14 It does not include the damage from deluge, it only affects the coin damage itself
Both are ideal for my depressed boywife ❤️❤️❤️
@@Un_Named05 Real and true
Factual, but I think Solemn Lament Yi Sang is more dapper :3
okay bro💀
Distort, distort, distort
The thing with Deluge is that it pops damage that was already there, while butterflies ADD damage (and also restore you SP). The only moment Deluge ADDs damage is against enemies with SP. Against enemies without SP, same thing as just popping your sinking.
Damage now > damage later
Also the damage cap and halving against abnos really devalues butterfly in terms of damage as well, so ideally both should be used on human bosses anyways.
That being said, SL does add damage pretty early, and thus makes fighting easily staggerable (preferrably human) enemies easier, so he has a far wider niche.
@@ultranumhereThing is, that "Damage now" had to be set up over multiple turns vs Butterfly just working. Deluge is a good finisher, but I sincerely believe you’re overvaluing it’s usefulness. Running people like Dieci Rodion or any sinking unit with a lot of coins will give you similar damage outputs to a sinking deluge because of how sinking itself works.
UNLESS of course the enemy has sanity, in which case yeah, makes a ton of sense to use sinking deluge there. But other than that? It really just feels like a big number for the sake of it.
I may disagree with your points, but keep up the good work. It’s good to have discussions on the game like this ^_^
@@ultranumhere One of them has a niche and the other is preferable everywhere else.
The strongest sinker in history Vs..
The strongest sinker of today...
@@RpgBlasterRpg sinker is a crazy title
Is mariachi sinclair emil sinker?
I agree, spicebush can be strong for specific fights and setups, especially in MD but overall butterfly is much more consistent and less annoying to play around. Another issue with spicebush yi sang is that his s3 is often times massively detrimental to use basically being a dead draw until you can one shot the enemy, his s2 as well can also be a dead draw if you are trying to save tremor for his s3 nuke and his tremor gain is really bad without ryoshu if you do want his AOE for mob encounters or abnos with multiple body parts.
Do you mean without outis instead of ryoshu? As her passive increases self tremor gain
@@aswo6207 comunist ryoshu increases tremor count gain too and butler outis is core in sinking
I see that you have your own first-second fanclub now.
@@lighting0b450 lol yeah
Happy to see you back uploading! Your content was quite helpful when I was first playing Ruina back at the end of its early access.
We love to see og viewers! Welcome back!
i don't care how cool solemn lament is, i will never abandon my beloved spicebush
@@hatredmalice7273 true loyalty right here
Who knew using guns would be better than using a stick.
takes a genius to guess
10:28 I would add the sixth one, that is the skill order. Spicebush can end up with 2 s2s and 1 s3 at the beginning of a fight, being generally useless for 2 turns.
I thought about adding this, but it's a pretty convoluted issue, and the chance of the skill order bricking your setup before you get a deluge out isn't super high.
I think they are just sidegrades and both have a valid position in the meta. You trade consistency and team support for absurd damage (his passive is crazy underrated), attack weight and an amazing evade which is a fair tradeoff.
Ngl this would be the case a couple updates ago, but Sinking already has multiple damage dealers, which push out Spicebush to a specific boss nuke role, and SL has him beat not only in all the other roles, but also in the lower HP bossfight department. Right now Spicebush is a hyperspecialist, and I wouldn't recommend using him over SL in an absolute majority of encounters.
@@ultranumhere A counterpoint is bosses are the single most important aspect of the game as far as enemies go. Being specialized in them isnt a bad thing at all and he has very good use cases in both railway which is our "endgame" content and mirror dungeon which is the most commonly played content both revolve around bosses with large enough healthbars to be completely valid for deluge. Sure you may want butterfly yi sang 70 percent of the time but when it comes to the truly big fights the shoe is on the other foot. I run butterfly on my story team and spicebush on the md team which feels like how it was intended.
I've used him for a while, basically only because of his s2. Of course, I am new, and until recently, have not had the greatest damage dealers.
@@richardomilos8686 Refraction Railway is actually one of the worst examples of this, as RR4 is mostly human fights, and bringing Bush for an encounter where only 1/3 of it is a bossfight will lead to him being dead weight in the other 2/3, whereas SL might not perform as well during the bossfight (but let's be real, Spicebush has no consistency, SL will win on even the bossfight quicker 5 out of 10 times), but it stomps in human fights.
The wider Spicebush fan community needs to realise that in order to optimise the game as it is right now, Spicebush goes to the sidelines 70% of the time in his own niche. If all enemies in Limbus Company got their health doubled, he would be great. I'm not saying Spicebush is flawed, just that the game hasn't had any difficulty spikes that would force players to use Deluge to speed up their fights yet.
Also mirror dungeons are a playground rather than a place of reasonable comparison, so do with that what you will.
being fair @@ultranumhere if we consider railway 4 sinking has so much flaws against the human encounters there's actually no reason to run it over just damage so honestly that much as an upside for Sollem
But like the comment above me said, he is in fact better in most of the fights, but that thought that doesn't mesn SB is hyper specialized, as the 30%-40% he's better at is usually more significan in the contrary i think SL is a bit specialized, he is better for Sinking against mobs, weaker targets something that the archtype itself doesn't realy does that well compared to other options outside of Md putting him in a way more niche situation then SB being better om bosses
when i think about the two i think like "if i can choose between Philip or Glimpse of Flames who would i pick for this encounter"
I used both
i used spicebush for big boss with annoying mechanic
And i also used solemn yi sang for human figh cuz ding ding ding
Tbh it usually comes down to: needing more sinking or enemy has sp.
Found this very helpful as im newer and have less ids. I got conflicted early on because I got both of them immediately and wasn't sure which to go with.
there's the "Create A well thought out team that synergies and increase a unit damage potential"
Vs
"Damn, this ID deals a lot damage... MAIN!!"
Sunshower Heath vs Wild Hunt Heath when? heh...
When uptie 18 saves my potential man
It's Potential Man vs. THE MAN
@@boxtupos7718 Casual Hobo vs Competitive Hobo
@@Sky_dartsvirgin “I rolled all heads my damage is bad :(“ vs Chad “Yes I rolled all heads, yes I got the kill”
potential man vs potent man
I mean, when his **Dinging** starts **criting*,* it becomes a whole ass sinfony for my ears.
When i heard the 40% deluge boost i already lost hope in this video
@@lukatin9 sure
People pull SL YS for damage or to slot him in sinking team or w/e.
Me: This guy has a lot of DAKKA, I NEED him!
I let that sink in.
Bonus point for Lament Sang: He just looks so cool ;u;
spice for rail way bombing, solemn for dingdingdingding /kill @ in story, mirror dungeon speedrun and luxcavation
Any thoughts about comparing Solemn Lament Gregor and Wingbeat Ishmael next? I think that it would be a decent topic since both are multi coin and reuse coin egos
SL Greg is going to be the topic of the next video, but it is very different from Wingbeat, and I probably won't be making it a comparison. Also the two are best used together, so here's that
i prefer solemn because of the living effect. it's not that big, at most 3 sp per coin, but if you run a team with a lot of coins and yi sang happens to go first with a skill 3 ready, that comes out to 9-12 extra sp for everyone on your team (granted you all hit the same enemy). that's roughly equivalent to an extra clash win, and it can make or break the difference in a lot of scenarios.
one that particularly comes to mind is erlking heathcliff's gloom phase, where butterfly can basically completely negate the sp drain effect if you can set it up.
spicebush does significantly more damage, but it's significantly more comfortable thanks to the sp recovery and non-existent set-up phase which has the added benefit of being much more usable outside of sinking comps.
also, gun.
Dont put two kings against eachother
I like solemn sang for the DING DING Dopamine and stacking depression to bosses with multiple S3
Spicebush is "set up then nuke" Solemn is "continued support and damage" with its butterflies providing sp regen and more damage on top of sinking. Spicebush applies sinking next turn which can mess with your sinking stack, Solemn doesnt have alot of sinking in its kit. Deluge is VERY good against bosses with or without sanity, but only in MD and stuff alike, in normal content the boss is gonna be dead before you can get deluge while Solemn has sanity issues and even at 45 sp reloading is gonna cost you about 15 sp and that 20% chance can cost you ALOT but if you want a nuke for sinking you have Erlcliff who pretty much NEEDS his S3 for coffin but he is a whole 'nother issue. Overall i think it just comes down to what units you have and are willing to use. Oh and also Solemn has better rolls on skill 1
From my experience, SolemnSang has his rightful spot next to spicebush because he does not rely very heavily on skill 3. My luck on skill rolls are not the best and can usually go several turns in MDR without rolling a S3(which ended my run a couple times, I vividly remember my bones being claimed by Kim). The sanity restoration with butterfly is also pretty neat not to mention reloads on S3 making it fairly spammable in some cases
PLEASE MAKE MORE OF THESE
What other pairs are there to compare?
@@ultranumhereI'd say Rinosault vs Warpsault in a team. Or perhaps not comparing sinner id 1 vs id 2, but sinner A vs sinner B id's
In my opinion, Spicebush has a higher potential cap, but requires a lot of restrictions and teambuilding to function. He's slow to get started without the Ryoshu support, and that's not even counting if you get a dead draw and get S2s or an ill timed S3. Using his evade to preserve his Tremor Count just means you're missing out on more damage turn by turn, and just overall, he's not so much a Sinking Unit as a Sinking Finisher. This is best seen with how he falls off a bit in the Refraction Railways, his best showing being in 2, where he was used to get around the annoying stall gimmicks of many of the bosses, but besides that one niche was outclassed by every other team comp. And ever since then he's slowly dropped off as more consistent IDs in his niche popped up, like Bonk Faust and Dawn Sinclair, who is literally just 'Spicebush but Burn' with better coins and DPS, offset by the sanity mechanic.
Solemn Lament meanwhile is just extremely consistent, requiring few, if any resets to get started, and integrates perfectly with a Sinking Team. Besides the rare and unfortunate instance where you get all S1s in a row at the beginning, he provides a lot of useful support for a Sinking team while barely disrupting the sinking chain. In the case of RR4, substituting in SL Yi Sang resulted in a 5 turn faster time, with his S3 being both an effective boost when starting off a new area, and as a spot finisher against non-boss targets, as most enemies witthout Pierce Resist flat out died from the mini-deluge on it, or if they did, were staggered. Against Bosses, they also fared well. While not as Bombastic as Spicebush, having a S2 or S3 going into Lament Gregor allowed for an even quicker nuke, since the Living, combined with Butler Faust, allowed for consistent Max Coin Rolls on the skill, wracking up hundreds of damage, and usually staggering the boss. And there wasn't anything stopping me from repeating that process the next turn.
I also just want to point out that the test was tampered with since I wanted to get 64 Turns (I just like to pick symbolic numbers for the Railways. 108 for RR1, 123 for RR2, 64 for RR3, and originally 69 for RR4 (It was supposed to be a dualiity thing due to the theatre masks, but the number had bad connotations, so I changed it for my next attempt, which was this. 52 was a bit too grindy for my taste.) so give or take a few turns for both attempts. Point stands that there was a slight increase in completion speed just by switching out those two.
Funny deluge always saves me a ton of time by nuking the bosses in Ritornello. If needed, I can always use WH Heath's S4 + Rags to clash and let Yi Sang go unopposed and boom, instant 8k. Still though, outside of that, his only consistent clashers are S3 and sometimes S2 with his conditionals as his S1's clashing is just.. slightly below average at best and non-existent at worst. For more comfortable and consistent pick, go for the funny dingding.
He really is a one-trick pony. But there's no better feeling than hitting for thousands of damage in a single shot.
Cant wait for Canto 7 to have a shit ton of negative coin bosses or bleed count/pot to the atker equal to the sinking pot/count inflicted.
That being said:
Sinkussy
Ngl I really want sinking to become even more popular (even though it seems to be the most popular team comp anyways) so that when Kim 2.0 releases the community will implode
I'm aware that others have pointed this out by this point, but Sinking Deluge doesn't get buffed by the tremor count effect, and as a result you seem to be massively overvaluing its effects.
Outside of the funny unga bunga number, the value of Deluge was twofold: allowing sinking teams to actually deal damage against enemies with SP and hyper specific railway strats.
In human fights I can see the value of your advice at 7:40 aka keeping up your sinking count as much as possible for your deluge. I could proceed to counter that you shouldn't be bringing sinking teams to human fights in general, but I'm aware that mirror dungeons exists and several human bosses just get shut down by low SP. (Although if its a negative SP human boss like Kim you have made a grave error)
Against enemies who actually take damage from sinking this is actually a horrible idea, if you can use skills that increase potency without getting rid of all of the sinking you are actually reducing the total damage dealt at the cost of a bit of deluge damage.
For some quick math say an abnormality has 50 potency 10 count and a 1x gloom weakness. If i were to do a sinking deluge on that target would deal:
Coin 1: 50 gloom damage
Coin 2: 50 gloom damage
Coin 3: 50 gloom damage
Sinking Deluge: 450 gloom damage
Total gloom damage: 600
If I were to say use the S1 of Edgar Gregor, which is a 1 coin skill that inflicts 3 potency, and follow it up with a deluge the sinking damage would be
Gregor Coin 1: 50 Gloom damage
Yi Coin 1: 53 Gloom damage
Yi Coin 2: 53 Gloom damage
Yi Coin 3: 53 Gloom damage
Sinking Deluge: 424 damage
Total gloom damage: 633 damage
Additionally if the deluge somehow doesn't kill you need to rebuild all of your sinking from the ground up with is pretty terrible.
Solemn Lament Yi Sang fulfills a very similar role to spicebush on a sinking team, as he can use butterfly to allow sinking teams to deal damage to enemies with SP with a bit less setup required, although inflicting 1 departed with his S1 isn't actually impactful in any meaningful way.
Solemn lament for spicebush
me trying to clear dawn without new solemn id:
mom i want unique sinking effect
-we have unique sinking effect at home
also that effect:
Take him from a friend, there are a lot of Yi Sangs to go around right now
Bloodsteeped Scent
⚔ 50 (45+5) Atk Weight ⯀
Amt. x1
[Clash Lose] Lose 20 SP
[On Use] Gain 6 Tremor Count
🪙[On Hit] Inflict +1 Sinking Count
🪙[On Hit] Inflict +1 Sinking Count
🪙[On Hit] If target has 6+ Sinking, cause Sinking Deluge
[On Hit] If user has 10+ Tremor Count, deal 40% of damage dealt as bonus damage
@@JusticeTaskForce you had this ready huh
what is the justice task force doing here bro
The dogwater S1 and the AoE of his S2 being completely unusuable made me fall off on Spicebush so hard💀. You could show me a compilation of him soloing the entire game and I still would hate myself using him.
He really is a "what if" merchant.
If there is a true potential man in Limbus, it's Spicebush, not Sunshower
At least Yi Sang has the potential lol
Solemn lament yisang is arguably the better one since it takes me back to the floor of technological science and I just miss reducing my IQ to room temperature in winter.
@@wagabababobo god, the ding ding dings I experienced when getting footage for the video made me want to replay LoR
Deluge is still funny af but SL is so much comfy to play
@@astradalm it's really a win rate button Identity
Never got a spicebush, so I only have ding sang
Spicebush are perfect for setup and aoe build while butterfly is for less setup so basically like spicebush is better on mirror run while butterfly is better on story mode or any fast clear
Strongest Gloom ID in History vs the Strongest Gloom ID of Today
Love spice bush but gotta go with the unique sinking
I personally like Solemn Lament more because his Sinking is either Neutral or Positive
Losing Gluttony isnt a problem for me since i run Butler Ish
My Sinking Team ends up as
Solemn Lament Yi Sang
Wild Hunt Heathcliff
Edgar Heir Gregor
Dieci Rodion
Butler Outis
Butler Ishmael
he's not count positive tho, he's count neutral on his s1 and the rest go -1.
Still it's better than Spicebush in that regard
BUTLER ISHMAEL?????
@@Deprave-edI like her for Gluttony generation, the Sloth is also nice
And who knows, maybe we will get a new EGO that fit her in the future
in consintency spice bush has the ability to pop up sunshower and deal 30% more dmg this is not about sinking but still a way to deal dmg
The most ironic part is that Solemn Lament gets so much more value from Sunshower, but has a much tougher time actually using it.
Irl keeps on going the bad ending of victim of a down.
It's only the bad ending if you choose it to be perceived as bad.
The only thing I don't like about Peak Sang is that he doesn't have any Gluttony (was my only source of Glut.), making my Sunshower completely unusable rn.
And the only other source of Glut. I could get would be from Dieci Meursault, who I don't have, nor am I planning on including him in my team...
@@TheUnicornChicken Sunshower is not the main part of Sinking tho, you can still play without ever using it and get great results
You don't really want Sunshower in sinking tbh so it's kinda a fair trade off it's good and all but not really necessary especially since there's not too much sloth In sinking teams
@@ultranumhere I know, I'm doing fine as is right now (I love Peak Sang - he's huge). I'm just sad my maxed EGO is gonna go to waste for now (maybe I'll just use Spice Sang for fun some times, or maybe there'll be fights where deluge will really pay off).
Dieci meursault is actually not that terrible, as without bush you don't actually need that much sinking count, all you need to do is keep it at 2 or above, and most of the modern sinking ids have decent count sustainability
Pointillist solos, gg. End of conversation
He does, but people really love videos on sinking identities lol
the best sinking yi sang id is LCB yisang clearly
Is w corp yi sang good for charg teams?
Or should i get other charge id's?
I have a video on charge teams on my channel if you want to learn more about them. W Corp Yi Sang is not exactly a good Charge Identity, no. He rolls lower than many other charge Identities, and Pierce is also not a prevalent damage type in that team, so his best enemies differ from those of most strong Charge units.
I chose lament not because of dmg but because i can inflect the ptsd i endure in LOR it wasnt fair i endure that shit show so why is it fair that the enemies didnt endure it? It a win in my book
you could have just used SL in LoR tho, funny 8 dice
@@ultranumhere I was too mad to use it
What team do i recomend with lament yi sang
I've got a video on sinking teams! replace spicebush by Solemn Lament, and you get what I consider to be the best team. You mostly want to pair him up with the Butlers, Molar Ishmael, WH Heathcliff and Edgar Greg for maximum Sinking damage efficiency.
use solemt lament because a 9 rolling skill is hell
spend all sinking for a nuke or consistent dps
4:56, dammit, I'm not a pm fan. xD
Being able to read a wall of text offcially means you lave too few hours in PM games
@@ultranumhere 700 in vanilla LoR and might be somewhere beyond 2k in limbus.
Why you should pick ButterSang over SpiceSang?
It's simple. THE DRIP!
Ehh, both have great drip
It's Spicebushover
One thing that people keep failing to bring up in regards to Spicebush - including this video - is his downright bad skill 1. It genuinely feels like a total waste to use most of the time.
It's good in the earlier turns, because you can carry over some count into a Rime Shank turn, giving you a better initial pot of SInking to work with. After that it's a dead draw tho
@@ultranumhere Pretty much, and the weak clashing hurts like hell.
Well for me spicebush is better in mdh and lament is better in story and rr. Case of gifts it's really not that hard to stack 99 sinking and do the bomba in mdh
Dieci isn't that bad tbh, all the diecis are fairly good due to the discard allowing them to tank more then average ID's without the need of healing allowing for resource saving.
bro his only source of sinking count is s3, which still goes negative due to coin count, his s1 is dead weight (who cares about his tank properties when he can't hit back), and his s2 inflicts an inconstistent amount of sinking that isn't stellar even at its best. He also just doesn't have good rolls at all, his best skill in terms of power is his s2 with 16 power, and while s3 ties that, it requires him to be at 50% HP or less which is a crazy conditional to have in the big 2024 when most bosses 3-shot unless you resist.
His whole gameplay is block-s2-block-s2, his damage is abhorrent, his clash power is low and his sinking infliction is non-existent. All he wants is to be hit, but what is the purpose of that when Spicebush can do the same sinking-on-defence magic trick but without taking any damage?
@@ultranumhere For me who had yet to get alot he worked well enough to protect most my units till i could get better IDs that could instead of just redirecting and tanking could redirect and win the clashes. It was a point before I caved in and just bought fluid sac with 2600 lunacy too. The entire point is to use whatever ID's traits they have until you can get the better ones. So Dieci isn't that bad.
@@quintessenceoflife7870 this isn't the point of the video though. If you're scraping by on whatever you can get in the early game then you shouldn't exactly be entering discussion on Identity strength, respectfully.
@@ultranumhere Then why do you bring up identity strength outside of the 2 being discussed about for the video of spicbush and solemn lament? There'd be no reason to bring the others into discussion.
@@quintessenceoflife7870 because it's a fun fact that yi sang has 4 Sinking IDs?
unnerfed ring sang
Ring Sang still on top
Peak vs Peak
This is why we need UT5 next season
(Please kim jihoon nagel und hammer is a rotting corpse standing on 2 sticks and reused tape)
Me and you will be the only two people glad to see u5.
It's super unpopular as an idea, but some of these Identities desperately need some better effect infliction and/or more power to not be entirely forgotten.
@@ultranumhereI feel like UT5 will be used as a reset button for when the power creep / coolness creep starts to set in big, treating the power crept IDs like Rcliff UT4 and allowing the weaker IDs to catch up
no way you just dissed dieci yi sang 😦
bro... who hasn't?
@@ultranumhere I love Inflict Sinking Potency equal to Insight 🤑
Spicebush is actively dogshit.
The clash numbers have always been terrible, even on release, and the only thing is has going for it is funny deluge damage that barely functions outside of MD anyway.
Dude was barely worth running even on launch, this vid did not need to happen lmfao.
You're a hater, he's not that good outside his niche, but T4 Rime shank and the Echoes of the Manor + Bygone Days interaction make Deluge infinitely easier to set up than on release. If you haven't used him in a while, he's definitely gotten better over the course of this season. Sadly for the flower man, a much more consistent way of converting Sinking to physical damage is out now, and, well, the video tells you how they stack up against eachother.
why he flower? 😭
Bro likes gardening, what can I say
I was hoping on a "worst ID 2024" for Dieci yi sang, but i gues this good too.
Seriously, i have 8 teams with no repeats ID for MD weeklies, and i have 0 reason to put him in ANY of them or have space for him anymore.
PS:
The Buttefly is stupidly complicated in that has 2 effects, then a decay effects.
Making it the most complex effect to this day, not to mention calling is the SAME as the bullets.
Dieci Sang doesn't exist if you don't think about him
DieciSang's passive for Solo MD Run with a discard unit ❤❤❤
Будто бы у тебя русский акцент
Spice bush better because big funny number!
The best take
solemn lament yi sang WILL get nerfed, when I use it I don't even need to think about playing the game, you could just throw his skills at random and he'd still beat every enemy.
It's also like 5 times stronger than the lobcorp version
No, he won't. He's specifically powerful in the new event, but he's not even the best Yi Sang Identity.
His physical damage lies entirely in his s3, his effect is double-capped, you virtually never get to heal over 1 sp with butterfly, the half damage on abnos really shows itself outside of md, and he's got a block skill for a defense, which is definitely weaker than an evade on a character like him.
He's very easy to use and is an above-average Sinking Identity, but saying that he deserves a nerf overrates him a lot.
whos the best identity for Yi sang?@@ultranumhere
Nobody gets nerfed lmfao
@@guangdong6805except chef gregor for some reason
@@thegoldenraysoftheglorious1180 to be fair, that's fixing a bug that made him better than he was supposed to be - which really speaks to how bad he is if he was still considered D Tier pre-patch, but still.
Чел, ты же русский?)))
No.
шифруется. ну а так, почти угадал.
second!
@@bananaguy2009 silver medal
first!
You are cringe-man now!
@@mazeppa9966 let's goo
Actually spice bush doesn’t win potential, all of his damage effectively requires you to have already won the fight, you have All your conditionals active, you’re constantly keeping the sinking high (a Herculean feat with spicebush constantly being a dead unit since he can’t clash and even if he could every skill is 3 sinking negative until next turn except skill 1, which even then still needs you to wait a turn before it becomes neutral) and as you yourself directly pointed out the higher end of damage on deluge is unrealistic to even approach. Sure you could get maybe 1-2k but then your effectively back at zero, better hope the boss doesn’t have a built in phase transition, or a gimmick that makes them immortal for a while, or just rolls decently high. And this is also ignoring the fact “high damage dealer” isn’t a hard thing to do on sinking anymore with Erlking heathcliff just doing way better way more consistently.
AND none of this is factoring in the potential turns lost from spicebush not being active in the fight, since he can’t clash, and you don’t want him to hit the enemy anyway since he’s so comically count negative you can’t get his sanity up, and your losing whatever damage he could apply, your effectively fighting with a sinner dead the entire time so deluge doesn’t even necessarily save time in fights since most fights realistically would end a turn or two early ANYWAY if you had a 6th I’d to actually do something. This also means it’s very difficult to get tremor on him for his skill 3’s second conditional.
Tl:dr his realistic potential the only part that actually matters is actually way lower
In fact RAW potential does not matter at all, if there was an ego that did 9 billion damage flat but you had to have 99 burn count on something for whatever reason for it to work, it would be trash nobody would use it, since there’s no actual way to have a fight last long enough for it to matter.
The theoretical limits don’t matter in the slightest if you can’t realistically get near them.
Also also: no spamming defend on every ID that’s not going positive on count so you can get more sinking count on human fights IS counter productive you could have just killed them with actual raw damage by the time you get sinking deluge online. Why wait several turns extra turns when you could just…. Hit them normally and win that way. The math here ain’t mathing
Potential: noun
noun: potential; plural noun: potentials
1.
latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness.
Spicebush is ABLE to deal an immense amount of damage that far outshines Solemn Lament, thus he, by default, wins POTENTIAL. The importance of this category is up for every viewer to decide on their own.
Also, as a response to your second point: 99 burn is actually a lot easier to get than any other debuff, so a 99 burn nuke would actually go pretty hard. Additionaly, take a look at Everlasting. Effectively exactly an ego that you described, and has metawarped tremor around the loop of "stack count+pot -> convert to reverb -> time mora -> evarlasting". (iirc time mora wasnt in the picture when everlasting dropped but you get my point.)
Your third comment also only really works against abnormalities, and I already said that sinking deluge is best used on humans. Also, if you're running a team for the sole purpose of optimal play, sinking isnt really the way to go. You can get better results by using Charge and Poise against enemies weak to their most prominent damage types, bleed is great on bosses, and tremor/time mora bullies anything sloth-weak. For even better effectiveness, custom-building a team for each encounter always beats any sinking team, or any other team for that matter.
Sinking is a very new player friendly team, and has its niche use cases courtesy of the exact ID you hate. It's never been the meta anyways, so if you want to hyperspecialize in phaseskipping a boss (which was a very prominent niche back in RR2, and can come back at any point), you can, and it's not a sin to lower your conventional damage to let Deluge do its job.
@@ultranumhere tell me you didn’t actually read what I had to say without telling me you didn’t actually read what I had to say.
My entire point was your category is fundamentally flawed hence the “realistic potential” point raw potential means nothing, as your realistically not going to reach that potential, something viability should not be measured based on its theoretical maximum but instead what your actually likely to achieve, further you yourself admit later in the video that you waste significant amounts of time and therefor damage by having to constantly defend spam to keep sinking count up, which itself takes AWAY his potential damage as frankly you would likely deal 1-2k damage cumulatively by the time spicebush can deluge. So his potential damage matters even less, since your not actually doing more damage then you would without spicebush, burst damage means nothing if you would have killed the target before you finished setting up the burst, a point you also conceded in the video.
My point stands
99 burn count is significantly easier to achieve yes, but realistically most fights are over before you can (with the exception of mirror dungeons where everything can reach 99 pretty easily)
@@ultranumhere and further my point stands stands even more on human fights, as the third point was “you could have killed them with RAW DAMAGE, not sinking, by the time sinking deluge would be ready if you just… had another unit that can actually clash and by extension deal damage to the human targets. Abnormalities die easy to regular sinking without deluge anyway. So I don’t even see what your point of contention even is.