Thank you for the lesson, I wish I had watched this over a year ago before I got my Alfa, first time it oversteered in the wet I overcorredted and fish tailed for a bit before bringing it back, it was on the street and scared the shit out of me. After that I went to parking lots whenever it was pouring or snowing and got a better feel for my car, I don’t freak out or overcorrect now, I’m not a veteran driver but this series is helping me learn and become better. Thank you.
The slip angle definition can also be helpful: Oversteer: The slip angle is larger on the rear wheels than on the front wheels. Neutral: The slip angle is nearly identical on the rear and front wheels. Understeer: The slip angle is smaller on the rear wheels than on the front wheels.
Thanks for watching! Check out the rest of the Driver's Uni series including how to trail brake (bit.ly/2PypIMK) Find out your driver level by taking our scorecard test: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
Hi scott when you say too much over steer is past the straight line of the wheel do you mean if your hand is at 9 o'clock and you are going round a left corner and your hand goes past 12 oclock its too much over steer? Or if anyone else could help that would be great
A car that oversteers significantly yet controllably would be excellent for FWD or front biased 4WD cars. By taking advantage of the sharp turn in, one can brake late and hard, late apex, get all the necessary yawing done ASAP, then use the yaw stabilizing effect of the drivetrain to accelerate hard out of the bend.
The draw back is having to force the car to rotate and change direction with the front-weighted car and the further wider weight distribution of the AWD drivetrain. The MR car will allow you to brake hard in a straight line as the rear bias will shift to a more neutral one, rotate better (centralised mass distribution), then the rear weight bias can be utilised on exit to provide more rear grip on acceleration.
Look and steer the car in the direction you want the car to go. This corrects all unwanted rotation. Oversteer, Understeer, brake steer and torque steer. Physics: Dynamics of Rotation
A tank slapper is NOT caused by adding in too much countersteer, which for all practical purposes is not even possible, the quicker and more angle of countersteer, the faster and more assuredly do you arrest the oversteer/impending spin. (theoretically possible, if your countersteer was so rapid/unsettling, you lost front grip, in most cases, never happens). Tank slapper is caused by too slow recovery phase of getting the steering wheel all the way straight by the time the car has swung back after the initial countersteer has successfully reversed the oversteer/slide. The term "overcorrection" is lexiconically unfortunate , a part of the classic racer excuse bag. Otherwise, great tutorial series, thanks.
I think he can't even drive, he sounded stupid on some video and i tried to see if there is some video where he is actually driving but just theories and his dumb writing board.
So proprioception through the seat is not a myth ? I though that main thing is peripheral vision. However even as seat feel is mentioned by many, I still find it strange.
Depends on the car really. Road cars not so much but you feel it in a race car. You feel every little vibration. The seat in my race car is bolted to metal brackets which are welded directly to the metal floor. Anything that usually dampens vibrations is stripped out of the car. When I'm in my seat strapped down I can actually feel the tiny vibrations of my mechanic doing up the bonnet locking pins.
Wow! looks like turn two on the Austrian circuit...Sure is a buggar of a turn! So hard to find that sweet spot - darned if ya do and darned if ya don't. There's a middle ground at every turn... Never in 40 years of driving have I ever had to think about the level of detail I have about driving. I'm a mechanic and I can fix stuff. But to send a car 180mph around a turn and live to tell about it, that's like Ferrari or Maserati's job, and those other rocket scientists. I do like the Red Bull 2022 rig! Um, woot! K, back to class...
Let's say I'm pushing the car a little too hard and the back end starts to slip - what should I do to ensure that this doesn't become a spin? And if it does, what should I do to salvage the situation, minimize the spin and keep the car pointed in the right direction?
AfroToast Two things: 1. Counter steering in the direction you want to go (look where you want to go and your hands will follow) 2. Apply just enough throttle (very small amount) to shift weight to the rear and give the rear tires a little bit more grip This has to be done as soon as you detect some rear tire slip. With experience, you will learn to detect the slip sooner and sooner.
When you suggest to lift off the brake pedal a bit earlier into turn in, do you also mean that I should begin braking a bit earlier? In other words, will the turn in speed have to be the same (so I should start braking earlier) or will I be allowed to carry more speed into the corner thanks to the better balance (so I don't have to anticipate the braking)? Thank you again for your helpful tips.
in Gran Turismo Sport I pop off the brakes (in a straight line ) and then if I turn the car will oversteer( final corner Mt Panorama, Bathurst). Is there some dynamic spring energy storage release thing going on in real life? My thought experiments say there would be a rotation to the rear adding some grip to the rear tyres?
I know it's late, but in the case someone else has the same question, in short Yes. I don't know in Gran turismo sport, but usually when you are braking and the front springs of the car are compressed and then you release brakes, you are letting the front springs go back in it's original position producing a force upwards, every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction, so the front tyres will be pushing the floor downwards, and that force and weight will translate in extra grip at the front of the car. The rear springs don't produce this force as they will be going from extension to it's normal state, and that transition leads to a mass falling into the ground but not resting in the rear tires until the spring is fully sit with the normal moment of the car Source: Physics of Racing by Andre Marziali here in youtube
When you say "the weight moves to the front of the car", what do you really mean? If you were to explain this to a student of physics who understood basic concepts of momentum, how would you describe it?
@@derrickallen2054 It doesn't work with all cars, because of the curve line, but he did it so he could have more perception of the car and the grip. He could see if the car was already sticked to the ground, or if he had to wait a little more.
@@bithundr thanks, sounds like it was his own custom traction control in a sense. You're right Senna was indeed a genius. I read somewhere that he would even glance at the flags blowing before entering a corner, and if the flags were blowing against him he knew he would have a bit more downforce than normal and therefore knew he could push his car a bit more than usual going into that corner.
Braking would transfer weight to the front, which would reduce rear tire grip and that would worsen the oversteer. The only time you should brake when oversteering is if you're already in a spin to lock the wheel and stop the rotation.
Scott then y if v give too much throttle in a corner then the car looses the back end the weight shd go to the backend rite but it leads to a spin can u explain?
My understanding is that this happens because you are exceeding the grip threshold. If you are in a corner you (for example) are using 95% of your total grip laterally to turn the car. If you apply throttle at this point you only have ~5% grip remaining and you will quickly exceed the 100% and the tires slip. Check out his other Lesson on understanding Grip to see this visualized.
Thank you for the lesson, I wish I had watched this over a year ago before I got my Alfa, first time it oversteered in the wet I overcorredted and fish tailed for a bit before bringing it back, it was on the street and scared the shit out of me. After that I went to parking lots whenever it was pouring or snowing and got a better feel for my car, I don’t freak out or overcorrect now, I’m not a veteran driver but this series is helping me learn and become better. Thank you.
The slip angle definition can also be helpful:
Oversteer: The slip angle is larger on the rear wheels than on the front wheels.
Neutral: The slip angle is nearly identical on the rear and front wheels.
Understeer: The slip angle is smaller on the rear wheels than on the front wheels.
Slip angle being the angle between the direction momentum wants your car to go and the direction your tires are pointed/are pulling
Thanks for watching! Check out the rest of the Driver's Uni series including how to trail brake (bit.ly/2PypIMK)
Find out your driver level by taking our scorecard test: bit.ly/2LmYNBA
Hi scott when you say too much over steer is past the straight line of the wheel do you mean if your hand is at 9 o'clock and you are going round a left corner and your hand goes past 12 oclock its too much over steer? Or if anyone else could help that would be great
the URLs come back as invalid Scott
A car that oversteers significantly yet controllably would be excellent for FWD or front biased 4WD cars.
By taking advantage of the sharp turn in, one can brake late and hard, late apex, get all the necessary yawing done ASAP, then use the yaw stabilizing effect of the drivetrain to accelerate hard out of the bend.
The draw back is having to force the car to rotate and change direction with the front-weighted car and the further wider weight distribution of the AWD drivetrain. The MR car will allow you to brake hard in a straight line as the rear bias will shift to a more neutral one, rotate better (centralised mass distribution), then the rear weight bias can be utilised on exit to provide more rear grip on acceleration.
loved the lesson, got almost everything i wanted! if you spoke a little about karts as an example i'd appreciate it
Look and steer the car in the direction you want the car to go. This corrects all unwanted rotation. Oversteer, Understeer, brake steer and torque steer.
Physics: Dynamics of Rotation
A tank slapper is NOT caused by adding in too much countersteer, which for all practical purposes is not even possible, the quicker and more angle of countersteer, the faster and more assuredly do you arrest the oversteer/impending spin. (theoretically possible, if your countersteer was so rapid/unsettling, you lost front grip, in most cases, never happens). Tank slapper is caused by too slow recovery phase of getting the steering wheel all the way straight by the time the car has swung back after the initial countersteer has successfully reversed the oversteer/slide. The term "overcorrection" is lexiconically unfortunate , a part of the classic racer excuse bag. Otherwise, great tutorial series, thanks.
I think he can't even drive, he sounded stupid on some video and i tried to see if there is some video where he is actually driving but just theories and his dumb writing board.
@@themarenda he's literally a EuroBOSS f1 driver
Just amazing content, incredibly informative
Hi, could you upload the video explaining the car setup, that might be causing it to overtsteer too much .......and how it can be rectified.
So proprioception through the seat is not a myth ? I though that main thing is peripheral vision. However even as seat feel is mentioned by many, I still find it strange.
Mantas Išganaitis very apparent to bike riders
Depends on the car really. Road cars not so much but you feel it in a race car. You feel every little vibration. The seat in my race car is bolted to metal brackets which are welded directly to the metal floor. Anything that usually dampens vibrations is stripped out of the car. When I'm in my seat strapped down I can actually feel the tiny vibrations of my mechanic doing up the bonnet locking pins.
Wow! looks like turn two on the Austrian circuit...Sure is a buggar of a turn! So hard to find that sweet spot - darned if ya do and darned if ya don't. There's a middle ground at every turn... Never in 40 years of driving have I ever had to think about the level of detail I have about driving. I'm a mechanic and I can fix stuff. But to send a car 180mph around a turn and live to tell about it, that's like Ferrari or Maserati's job, and those other rocket scientists. I do like the Red Bull 2022 rig! Um, woot! K, back to class...
Can you clarify the rotation line? Is it faster than the late apex used in a racing line, assuming there is a long straight ahead?
Let's say I'm pushing the car a little too hard and the back end starts to slip - what should I do to ensure that this doesn't become a spin? And if it does, what should I do to salvage the situation, minimize the spin and keep the car pointed in the right direction?
AfroToast Two things:
1. Counter steering in the direction you want to go (look where you want to go and your hands will follow)
2. Apply just enough throttle (very small amount) to shift weight to the rear and give the rear tires a little bit more grip
This has to be done as soon as you detect some rear tire slip. With experience, you will learn to detect the slip sooner and sooner.
It depends on what caused the oversteer…
When you suggest to lift off the brake pedal a bit earlier into turn in, do you also mean that I should begin braking a bit earlier?
In other words, will the turn in speed have to be the same (so I should start braking earlier) or will I be allowed to carry more speed into the corner thanks to the better balance (so I don't have to anticipate the braking)?
Thank you again for your helpful tips.
the latter, I think he addresses this exact point around 6:40
How come When I turn in the The rear end kicks out and then starts bouncing while applying the Gas
Chase Dow sounds like the suspension and damper setup is not right. Also could be wrong braking and turn in techniques
Ride height, springs front and rear are the same and not offset, or preloads are set wrong. Bad damper could be an issue too
in Gran Turismo Sport I pop off the brakes (in a straight line ) and then if I turn the car will oversteer( final corner Mt Panorama, Bathurst). Is there some dynamic spring energy storage release thing going on in real life? My thought experiments say there would be a rotation to the rear adding some grip to the rear tyres?
I know it's late, but in the case someone else has the same question, in short Yes.
I don't know in Gran turismo sport, but usually when you are braking and the front springs of the car are compressed and then you release brakes, you are letting the front springs go back in it's original position producing a force upwards, every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction, so the front tyres will be pushing the floor downwards, and that force and weight will translate in extra grip at the front of the car. The rear springs don't produce this force as they will be going from extension to it's normal state, and that transition leads to a mass falling into the ground but not resting in the rear tires until the spring is fully sit with the normal moment of the car
Source: Physics of Racing by Andre Marziali here in youtube
When you say "the weight moves to the front of the car", what do you really mean? If you were to explain this to a student of physics who understood basic concepts of momentum, how would you describe it?
The front gets more load as you slow down, the weight doesn't "literally" move, the front of the car grts pushed down and the rear is lifted up
2:20 i assume this was directed towards rwd right? Because getting on the accelerator should give the rear more traction
Just hoping to become a better driver on the road.
What are your thoughts on Senna's throttle blipping mid-corner?
Keep in mind that Senna was a genius, he didn't care about oversteer, he just controlled it like it was nothing
I've been trying to find that answer for a long time. He did it while racing carts as well, man I'd really like to know the answer.
@@derrickallen2054 It doesn't work with all cars, because of the curve line, but he did it so he could have more perception of the car and the grip. He could see if the car was already sticked to the ground, or if he had to wait a little more.
@@bithundr thanks, sounds like it was his own custom traction control in a sense. You're right Senna was indeed a genius. I read somewhere that he would even glance at the flags blowing before entering a corner, and if the flags were blowing against him he knew he would have a bit more downforce than normal and therefore knew he could push his car a bit more than usual going into that corner.
In terms of % ackerman how is oversteer represented, is it less than 100% or more than 100%?
can dabbing the brakes help stop over steer as well?
Im not an expert but i think it could make it worse in a RWD car because of the weight shift off the back wheels
Braking would transfer weight to the front, which would reduce rear tire grip and that would worsen the oversteer.
The only time you should brake when oversteering is if you're already in a spin to lock the wheel and stop the rotation.
tell Grosjean
To oversteer or drift JUST PLAY SOME FREAKJNG EUROBEAT AND YOU CAN DRIFT OR OVERSTEER
Mayhem Games under steer* oversteer is when back tired lose grip and understeer is when the front lose grip.
Scott then y if v give too much throttle in a corner then the car looses the back end the weight shd go to the backend rite but it leads to a spin can u explain?
My understanding is that this happens because you are exceeding the grip threshold. If you are in a corner you (for example) are using 95% of your total grip laterally to turn the car. If you apply throttle at this point you only have ~5% grip remaining and you will quickly exceed the 100% and the tires slip.
Check out his other Lesson on understanding Grip to see this visualized.
Brendan McVeigh thank u😀
slow in fast out
6 guys crashed their cars 🤷