Kyle's Christian Deconstruction Story - From Assemblies of God Missionary to Atheist

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 83

  • @KyleGSS-fit
    @KyleGSS-fit 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Thanks for having me on, Timmy! I apologize for the glitchy video quality. Technology and I don't get along very well.

    • @StephenSinclair-d6n
      @StephenSinclair-d6n 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I get that😂.

    • @laraglass4773
      @laraglass4773 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Noah was a big one for me too. If God was perfect and Omnipresent, well how did he make a mistake and have to wipe out humanity again. Didn't he already know how "wicked" people would become?why make them then, unless he's a genocidal maniac that enjoyed it

    • @StephenSinclair-d6n
      @StephenSinclair-d6n 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@laraglass4773 all of that is an excellent point. Also extremely well phrased.

    • @laraglass4773
      @laraglass4773 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@StephenSinclair-d6n thank you

    • @Jon45678
      @Jon45678 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Cool interview Kyle, thanks, it was really helpful to me. I’m a fellow CBC’er who graduated and started in the ministry then shortly realized it wasn’t for me. After that I spent a lot of years “away from God” living in guilt and finally started really deconstructing this year as I see it’s all just a man-made mythology. Wasted decades of my life.

  • @TheOriginalJZTV
    @TheOriginalJZTV 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Great conversation, can relate to so much of what was discussed. Keep up the good work ✌️😎

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Thank you so much!

  • @TunziSNORT
    @TunziSNORT 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    Fascinating, it's amazing to see people just blossom when they leave the Cult. Great video and hearing from Kyle.

  • @justinporter458
    @justinporter458 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    It,s been 6 years for me too, Tim I dissociated from Jehovah Witnesses in 2018 aged 57 ,Nicole my beautiful wife is still a Jehovah Witness, we still have a happy and loving marriage even though I'm a Atheist and for that I,m truly grateful,

  • @ginafrancis4950
    @ginafrancis4950 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Thank you Timmy. What a great conversation! I related to so much.
    As an ex Mormon attending different Christian denominations, nondenominational sects, as well as Buddhism I finally landed on agnosticism. For sure there is NO biblical god and NO Mormon one either! And one doesn’t have to believe in god to have a heart full of gratitude!
    You may know this already but Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman is a fascinating read on the historical Jesus. Bart Ehrman also was an evangelical literalist in his early years. Now an agnostic. I find his books a great help in understanding the whys and wherefores of Christian belief.
    I am so grateful for minds like his that can dig deep into history and unwind the facts from myth and make it understandable to a lay person like myself.
    Timmy, so glad you have crossed over into the light of reason, logic and critical thinking. Unfortunately too many humans are still so attached to magical thinking when it comes to belief. Of course that’s fine as long as that belief doesn’t do harm.
    Mormonism is all about a magical world view. Started by treasure digger/seeker Joseph Smith.
    Oh and BTW, Mormons, the truly devout ones doing everything the leadership demands they do for their salvation, estimated to be around 12 million worldwide. So no… not that many in the larger scheme of things religion wise.
    They are also losing members left and right.
    Sorry, one last thing. What is your take on Christians that like to pray over their food in public. Virtue signaling perhaps? Didn’t Jesus say (Mathew 6:6) go to your room to pray in private? (Course Bart might have something to say about Jesus even saying that.
    Just curious what your opinion is.

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ginafrancis4950 thank you so much! I love Bart Erhman’s work!!!

  • @richdizzy
    @richdizzy หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I love that the last few seconds made the cut! 🤣

  • @henrim9348
    @henrim9348 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great interview. Hilarious.

  • @Abraxun
    @Abraxun 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Also to theists because I’m tired of hearing it, there’s no objective morality not only because we can agree or disagree with it, but because this set of moral systems (which thankfully we funnily enough DON’T follow and benefit from secular values instead) is, if we assume God is true, still God’s own subjective morality, and the fact that he commands it on us doesn’t make it any more objective.

    • @omnikevlar2338
      @omnikevlar2338 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      As an atheist the way I view it is this. IF tomorrow we discover a deity and he has a set of moral rules for us to follow. It would always be a question if this deity is objectively moral or if objective moral values are separate from this deity? And that maybe this deity is also having subjective morality like what we have here. Either way nothing to worry about until a deity shows up lol.

    • @ApologetikProjekt
      @ApologetikProjekt 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This objection fails because God IS the ultimately reality. Everything is dependend on him. It makes no sense to speak of "his" morality, so as he would be just one person next to many others.

    • @omnikevlar2338
      @omnikevlar2338 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@ApologetikProjekt it’s not an objection. If there was a deity and if the deity revealed itself. It will always be a question if this deity has objective moral values itself. Or if objective moral values is separate from the deity.

    • @KyleGSS-fit
      @KyleGSS-fit 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This has always been a fun train of thought for me. If a god is real and he set up a code of morality that has the impact on reality like the bible claims, then that morality would be true in much of the same ways as the natural laws. If a god were real, there wouldn't be a physical and a metaphysical, there would just be the discovered and the undiscovered much like there is right now. This is confirmed by several mythologies where their afterlife is a very physical place and the workings of the divine have very physical outcomes. The distinction between the physical and the metaphysical, while not totally new, has grown out of necessity to keep certain beliefs alive. Thus, any god that claims to have created an objective morality, that morality should be measurable by science like anything else that actually exists. You could accept or reject said moral reality, but you may look like a flat earther. Given that you don't look like a flat earther doesn't bode well for those that do believe.

    • @Abraxun
      @Abraxun 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@KyleGSS-fit especially when those who do believe have a large span of variation in the specifics of belief. Is the universe billions or 6000 years old? Is god outside of space time or not? Are Catholic views correct? Protestant? Mormon? Pentecostal? Or what about another entirely different religion? I have a hard time accepting the idea of a truly objective morality from the building blocks of what at this point in these religions is just metaphysical and sometimes making truth statements that go against scientific fact (it’s a horrifyingly regressive mindset akin to flat earth), and it’s very interesting to consider that once that feeling of objectiveness to this horribly warped set of moral beliefs was probably more socially accepted in a time where the pool of knowledge was so dry.

  • @teena4rl211
    @teena4rl211 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    I have a question for Timmie and/Kyle. Having left Christianity as religion, how do you view Jesus now? I found that separated from a trinitarian belief system, Jesus the man, the historical figure, is actually a person worth emulating. He was ahead of his time with regard to gender equality, economic equality, etc. In some ways, I was inspired to follow The Way, as early Christians called his teachings, more when his divinity (or not) no longer mattered to me. How has that been for you?

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@teena4rl211 thank you so much for your comment. I’m definitely no longer a Christian and I wouldn’t even say I am a “Christ follower “but yes, I feel like many of Jesus‘s teachings are something we can emulate especially when you talk about kindness, selflessness, charity, mercy, forgiveness and such things.

    • @teena4rl211
      @teena4rl211 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@timmygibsonkc Thank you for your reply; much appreciated! I once took exception to Jesus' chastising Martha for preparing refreshments while he sat and chatted up Mary. I told my priest and study group that Jesus' attitude pissed me off and that if I were Martha, I would have told him to go without and see how he likes that after walking and doing the miracle thing all day. My priest roared with laughter and said that Jesus probably would have laughed at that and agreed he was out of line. Pound for pound, he was a pretty down to earth guy. Too bad more of his "followers" aren't like the real thing.

    • @KyleGSS-fit
      @KyleGSS-fit 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      There are some teachings I do really like. The concept of sin and the atonement for sin being something largely insurmountable is a bit of a relevant social commentary. If I cheat on my wife, there is nothing I can really do to atone for that. All I can do is repent and show some sign of good faith moving forward if she decides to stay with me. In no situation would I deserve her forgiveness, but if we were to continue in our marriage it would be needed. I think we can extrapolate that out to a societal level when looking at things like cancel culture or even a lot of the tribalism and dogmatism surrounding politics. What we label as sin may have changed, but there are many sins with no clear path of atonement. If you say something you shouldn't and it goes viral, you're life is ruined and it doesn't matter if you have remorse. In-fact, you may have a better ability to recover if you double down than if you are remorseful and apologize. Having a system in place that demands forgiveness and forces your accusers to look in a mirror (because most of us have probably said things we shouldn't) is probably a better way for a society to function... within reason. It's the "reason" bit that can get a bit wonky in the New Testament when people are taught to repent or suffer unimaginably for all eternity. The fear mongering, the elevation of single man to godhood, and the push to convert others is what likely made early Christianity appear a lot like a cult. As for the historical Jesus, there is very sparing information about him or what he was like aside from the gospels. Realistically we're only looking at maybe two accounts that have been repeated in four books and neither of them were likely written when Jesus was alive. So while I think he was probably real, it's impossible to say what he was really like and how many of these teachings actually came from him.

    • @teena4rl211
      @teena4rl211 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@KyleGSS-fit Good points all.

    • @wizquinn8021
      @wizquinn8021 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@teena4rl211I get what you are saying but I question this Jesus as being good when he brings up hell for people, he teaches the separation of families for his movement, he cares less of people mourning for their dead loved ones. He wouldn't pass my moral thermometer.

  • @Jon45678
    @Jon45678 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Good times in Horton Hall 😂🤣
    I could tell some crazy stories about my time at CBC.

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Jon45678 Please do share! Ha ha … I was also in Horton Hall 90’

  • @agreeablegraylife
    @agreeablegraylife 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    When I first stopped going to the Assembly of God, it was 2004. Still took years to get over the incredible guilt and self-inflicted psychological bashing over the thought::: What is wrong with me? What kind of an idiot am I that I do not want, to be "in the Truth." As of the past few days, however, I'm actually leaning in to the simulation idea. Reality seems less and less real these days. Life is fun!❤❤❤ No more guilt! No more pesky Truth to worry about. 😊

  • @MrTomhoabinh
    @MrTomhoabinh 2 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Thanks!

  • @meshimichelle-if3tg
    @meshimichelle-if3tg 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Yeah, they were "healing" left and right, but when my daughter came up in a healing service, they said, it wouldn't happen tonight, but that it would happen. It's just going to be awhile before it happens...uhuh...

  • @grimlund
    @grimlund 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    45:30 "Joseph Smiths drivers license!"
    Eeeeh. Joseph Smith lived in the 19 century and never saw a car in his life. Maybe I missed something here.

  • @ColorsFlight
    @ColorsFlight 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    geeze Timmy listening to you guys I am so glad I don't go to churches😂😂😂😂

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@ColorsFlight 😂

  • @henrim9348
    @henrim9348 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How do you feel about the people you brought into religion? Have you told them that you made a mistake?

  • @ColorsFlight
    @ColorsFlight 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    light doesn't always just come from the sun. Have you noticed how the sky lightens up at a certain time in the morning before the sun? Well there is actually chemical stuff up in the sky that does that I don't know how to explain it but I watched it on a science program once.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    53:20 Oh yes, God loved murder and was such a meanie. It's almost a wonder why he would curse Cain for killing Abel if he loved murder so much. Hm.

  • @John-sl3lu
    @John-sl3lu 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    ❤❤❤👍👍👍☺️☺️☺️

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    23:19 Social contract theory, basically, creates morals? Why does everybody's social contracts seemingly almost perfectly aligned. And if they don't, the other societies end up intervening (e.g., Hitler). Sounded like people that were outside of others' "subjective" social contracts, all agree on certain things. If it's subjective, why is it so unanimous and innate? When you depend on empirical evidence alone, you are going to continually fall into this trap. Odd.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    48:05 The Bible being subtracted from was done by Protestants. Catholics and Orthodox hold to older traditions of canon. Protestants decided to base theirs off of, what they deemed to be, the Pharisaic tradition of the first century. Again, this doesn't disprove Christianity; this shows that people can form sects and do their own thing. Martin Luther (basically the founding father of Protestantism, which is the sect these two come from) didn't want multiple books in the New Testament there either (e.g., James, Jude, Revelation, etc.)

  • @Pablo-ly8fi
    @Pablo-ly8fi 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    None of you were ever a follower of Christ. You were seekers. But never surrendered to God (your will) or came to a knowledge of Jesus. You might have followed man made denominational doctrine.
    And teachings. The US Christian church has left the truth so it’s easy for people to leave “the church” because it will disappoint and mislead. I pray for your true salvation, you can interview many people and create a support group, but in the end we are pilgrims on this planet, so where lies your eternity ?
    Romans 10:9-10
    Mat 15:8-9
    Mat. 7:21-23 this is part of the Pentecostal movement (not Christian)
    2 Timothy 3:5
    Mathew 13
    1 John 2:19
    I am just an ambassador of the King of the Universe and Creator. Ours is a walk of faith Hebrews 11:6
    I have no guilt or judgement. Have been born of The spirit of God and not of man made religion and theological confusion. There is a remnant still in the institutional Churches. God knows who are his and who are the fake (wolves in sheeps clothing)
    You were deceived in a war which is daily
    Ephesians 6:10-19
    I feel sad for you. If you had an ounce of seriousness I would respect your position but you laugh and mock.

    • @Lenergyiskey358
      @Lenergyiskey358 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You were never really sane.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    46:45 Again, please do your own research and take what these guys say with a grain of salt. Timmy's over here talking about Christ not being a Christian and not preaching Christianity. I don't know what Gospel accounts this guy was reading. But take a quick read of any of synoptic Gospels (since they're more detailed and event based than John) and tell me whether Jesus is preaching Christianity or Judaism. Just because he celebrated the Passover, kept the seventh day Sabbath, got circumcised as a baby, etc. doesn't mean that's what he was preaching; two completely different things. He had to keep the law of Moses because he was incarnated as a Jew (read the Bible for context instead of depending on people with blinders). But when you pay attention to what He was actually saying, then you'll see that he was preaching more of what you hear today, at least from the ancient Churches (Protestantism is a remix of early Christianity).
    Next, he says the early Christians show that they weren't the same as today. Well yes, because the early Christians were Catholic and Orthodox, not Protestant. They didn't change the Church into concerts and auditoriums with people pretending to speak tongues and heal people on stage lol. It's a circus now. But you pointing to the early Christians being different than your sect of Protestantism doesn't disprove Christianity, it means you now need to test the current Catholic and Orthodox Christians that hold to those Traditions.
    Kyle shows his ignorance by bringing up Gnostic texts that come much much later than the Gospels and letters that you see in your Bible today. Gnostics were condemned in the early Churches, and the idea of Gnosticism was constantly refuted by Paul in his letters because the idea was prevalent then too. You people will believe in things about Caesar and Alexander the Great that have garbage manuscript preservation in comparison to Bible manuscripts, but when the Bible gets brought up, now there's "no proof". Well then throw away all of your books regarding Plato, Alexander the Great, Caesar, Pliny, Homer, Herodotus, Tacitus, etc.

  • @ColorsFlight
    @ColorsFlight 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The concept of a Messiah and being born of a virgin was in the old testament and all that stuff they were doing was pointing to him. Like even their maza balls having stripes on them (yeast free bread representing Jesus as sin free and the beating he took his stripes) like in Isaiah by his stripes we are healed and the idea of a redeemer like in Job that points to the resurrection where he says I know my redeemer liveth and I shall see him with my own eyes. So the concept is in the Old Testament. I know i know you don't believe that and that's fine. ❤️

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    48:30 Kyle again shows his ignorance, talking about stuff he doesn't know. Catholics and orthodox don't view Mary as divine. The divine essence/nature applies to God only in the hypostases of Father, Son and The Holy Spirit. Mary is believed to be in Heaven, and blessed above others because of being the Mother of Jesus Christ. This then follows "oh, but they think she can be prayed to which means they worship her like a God". This refers to the intercession of the Saints, and does not only apply to Mary. Also, pray is another word for ask. Vocabulary changes through time, it's called etymology. Look at Elizabethan English that Shakespeare used and you'll see "I pray thee" used all the time. All it means is "I ask you". This doesn't make Mary divine, nor does it make her worshipped like God is worshipped; they refer to it as reverence (respect).

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    51:15 Timmy said God sanctioned slavery, etc. This literally contradicts what Kyle even said. He admitted God put regulations on slavery. Secondly, show me where God commanded slavery, oh wait.. it's not there. Allowing something to continue due to the sin of those in the world, is different than commanding it yourself. If you want to argue that He's wrong for allowing humans their free will to do so, then you can make that argument; but you can't make the argument that he sanctioned it.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    20:31 Can you guys just watch this before subscribing to the new atheist nonsense?
    1. He's watching a debate
    2. The atheist says it doesn't take being a Christian to know morals (which is true)
    3. Then he says the Christian asked something like, "what is good" (I'm assuming this was a Frank Turek video).
    4. Timmy proceeds to now call this word salad. The empirical evidence loving agnostic is calling epistemology... word salad. You can't make this up lol. Dude skipped metaphysics and philosophy of science and went straight to exclusively empirical based knowledge. Goodness. And I don't want to hear any "oh look the Christian is being mean". This dude drops videos every weak just asserting stuff, most the time without empirical evidence ironically, and laughing at Christianity. He's avoided any comment I've posted debunking him, especially his disingenuous exegesis when he tries to point out supposed Bible contradictions that are easily reconcilable when you read the context of the surrounding passages.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    52:35 Your good cop, bad cop analogy is false and your fault if you used it. Tradition holds that "the angel of the Lord" passages in the OT were theophanies of the Son. Therefore, there is no good cop, bad cop. This fell into the heresy of Marcionism and was condemned in the early centuries of the Church. Like I'll continue to point out, a lot of your issues (not all, but a lot) come from Protestant interpretations. This then obviously leads to a myriad of denominations because a lovely doctrine called Sola Scriptura that allowed everybody and their momma to create a denomination starting with Lutheranism and then branching out to the family tree of denominations we have today.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Professor Dave made you glowingly aware of there being 100% evidence of stuff? Empirical evidence has been easily proved to not meet its own test. Can you test that everything needs to have empirical evidence? Where’s the empirical evidence that shows that? Science comes to consensus that is an agreed upon theory, not fact.

    • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
      @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Studying philosophy of science will make this very apparent.

  • @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9
    @Reclaimtherainbow_Gen9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    22:16 Cain killed Abel so therefore Christianity deboonked. Oh yeah I forgot that atheists branched off from Christianity and decided not to commit murder unlike the Christians. This is a joke.

  • @amandamusic5746
    @amandamusic5746 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I would depend on Jesus to cover what the medicine wouldn't.

  • @donnavickery9623
    @donnavickery9623 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You were never a Christian. You were a member of the Pentecostal Church. You never had a personal relationship with Christ. You were not preaching the teachings of Christ.?You were preaching the Ideology or Doctrine of the Pentecostal Church. You were not teaching The Law of One which is what Jesus was teaching.

    • @timmygibsonkc
      @timmygibsonkc  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@donnavickery9623 Donna, You are not a Christian. You do not have a personal relationship with Jesus! You are lost, and deceived.

    • @ColorsFlight
      @ColorsFlight 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      what is the law of one?

    • @kenmorgan1745
      @kenmorgan1745 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The point isthere are no christians