They learned that the hard way at Nellis, during Red Flag. The base decided to refuel the tankers on the ground, just before takeoff time, because they do it that way with fighters. The first day we were there, we cancelled the first four tanker flights, due to waiting for fuel. The base had to cancel el 60 fighter sorties because no tankers were available to keep them in fuel to play. After that, we always got fuel first.
Goes to show: All jobs (not just the glamour movie role ones) are immensely honorable and important. Love the “pointy jet” guys, but this man kicked butt and saved lives too. Thank you, Sir.
"Top Pump" The best SAC movie where the KC-135 tanker is the star is: Streetcar Do You Read Me? Kraft Suspense Theater Starring Pete Malloy and Jarrod Barkley. Available right here on the TH-cams.
Excellent interview! My dad was a career Air Force pilot and flew KC-135s most of his career. Tanker crews were always proud in their ability to "Pass Gas." I was at the Palm Springs, CA air museum about a year and a half ago and there was a reunion of Vietnam era pilots. One guy had a classic leather jacket with all the squadron patches on it. There was also a large "Texaco" patch, square on the middle of the back of the jacket. I asked him about the "Texaco" patch, thinking he might have been a corporate pilot or something like that. He told me that as a fighter pilot, after about an hour or so of flying, you start thinking about fuel and they various pilots would say, "Let's go Texaco" when it was time to get fuel. When you think about it, the US is one of the few countries in the world that can project air power, anywhere, anytime. Tankers are an integral part of that organizational capability.
The most astounding planning I have learned of was Britain refuelling Vulcan bombers to reach the Falkland Islands during that conflict. Boggles the mind how they came up with that.
@@charlieross-BRM If you read Ward's trilogy, Punk's War, there are several aspects of fighter's refueling over Iraq and Afghanistan. Most tanker crews (US, French, etc) in the book were very accommodating to fly the intended or needed course of the fighters, to help them extend their range. The Brit tanker crews were "by the book" and wouldn't deviate from their assigned track.
@@charlieross-BRM Not from Britian -- The Operation Black Buck raids were staged from RAF Ascension Island, close to the Equator. Still a 6,600 mile round trip, very impressive.
Excellent comment, Dave. So often the people in supporting roles get little or none of the recognition they deserve. Mooch, I loved this interview! We who flew the fast movers were always glad to see the lights of a Stratotanker 30° off the nose, halfway through his offset tanker track rendezvous and very soon rolling out a half mile right in front of us, exactly the way it was diagrammed in the manual. For 14 years I was in the Lincoln, Nebraska ANG unit, 173rd TRS, flying RF-4C TAC recce jets. Our typical night training schedule was to launch two flights of four Phantons, one at 1800L and one at 1900. Crews were a mixed bag of local guys coming in after work, and out of the area/state commuters in town to fly for three or four days. The profile was to launch and rendezvous with a tanker orbiting in our MOA, take a token thousand pounds of gas and depart individually for an IFR low level route, practicing radar low altitude navigation and infrared photo reconnaissance. The KC-135 Stratotankers were usually from our sister ANG unit at Forbes ANGB outside Topeka, Kansas. They were always on time and ready to pass gas. Over time, it became quite routine and fun except in bad weather. I remember one night when the ceiling was about 1,500' overcast, but good visibility below clouds. I was the second element (USN/USMC "section") leader. It was very dark when our four jets rolled onto the long old runway left for us by SAC when they closed the B-47/KC-97 base many years before. Eight J-79s rum led and whined as we lined up, pointing our needle sharp-nosed radomes due south for an 85% RPM runup. After a few seconds of roaring exhaust, Lead and two rolled, the seventeen foot long flames of their bright afterburner lightoffs temporarily destroyed our night vision. Ten seconds later, I released brakes and felt the comforting surge as my 'burners lit, and we rapidly accelerated down runway 17R. Gear and flaps up, airspeed 300, out of burner. We knew the clag above us was thick and forecasted to be solid all the way up to the tanker's altitude, so lead stayed below the ceiling to give us time to effect a join up. I aimed for his dim flashing anti-smash beacon and smoothly got my flight aboard as we started our 350K climb toward the MOA. It was tough to see the flight lead. In those days our airplanes were still painted dark green camouflage, and all I could see was Lead's wingtip light and his glowing green electroluminescent strips on the wingtip, fuselage, and tail. The clouds were solid all the way up to FL200, making visibility within the formation challenging to say the least. Lead sent us over to refueling frequency and checked us in with the crew of the Forbes tanker, and they started down the offset track towards us and a 1,000 feet above us. We had air to air DME, but our lead WSO was good enough with our ground mapping radar to lock the tanker up twenty miles out from the rendezvous and gave us periodic distance countdown checks. The tanker, still invisible in thick cloud, reported rolling out of his turn and steadied up on the refueling track, a mile dead ahead of us on our leader's radar. Gradually we picked up some overtake speed, inching forward towards the tanker while remaining a thousand feet below his altitude. Eventually as the DME crept downward, our flight lead picked up the pulsing glow of the tanker's anticollision beacon and requested it to be extinguished lest it give us all a basmd case of spatial disorientation. Finally, in my peripheral vision, I began to pick up a slowly brightening glow of the tanker's nav and refueling director lights in the thick gloom. Our lead slowly climbed the four of us up toward the tanker's altitude, 200 feet per minute. Eventually we could see the Stratotanker's lights more clearly, about fifty yards ahead. What a beautiful sight to behold! Lead cleared us wingmen to take up position on the tanker's wingtips. As i banked slightly away fro Lead to glide behind the big four engine jet's right wing to take station with my wingman at the tip and await our turns to take fuel, I could sense the moistness of perspiration on my neck and shoulders as I marveled at the experience and professionalism that made this miracle happen, a miracle that enabled our country to project airpower around the globe whenever needed. Getting plugged and topped off seemed almost too easy following the hairy rendezvous we had just experienced!
I have a buddy who was a boom operator and he loved to point out that he was one of the few enlisted guys who all pilots were always immensely polite/respectful to by default. He guessed they weren’t fond of the idea of walking home.
A young man that I am proud to call a friend is an Air Force boom operator and trainer. His professionalism is admirable, his knowledge of aircraft is shocking and he is also a pretty damn good father.
😂 I was in an Army unit, Movement Control, we managed All Ground Movements in Iraq when I was there. Officers would call 📞 asking to "move there stuff" I'd punch it up on my computer "Sir it's scheduled for movement on _____ " they'd get mad ask for an officer, and 😂 Officer would say the same thing and hand phone back, 😂. Love it!
@KlusoTollini and we worked together again at Kadena in 18 Wing Weapons and Tactics! What a great time in our lives Kluso! All of you reading this go buy and read his outstanding book Callsign Kluso, a fantastic read!
@@MarkHasara I bought your book immediately after viewing this interview with Mooch. I'll go get Kluso's book on your recommendation, thanks! Been enthralled with the tanker mission since I was 10, and saw when the RAF hit Port Stanly Airfield - with all those beautiful Victor converted tankers. You're a great storyteller, Colonel. I can't wait to read your book when it gets here.
Great interview. I was a BUFF Nav and Radar Nav. I spent many hours behind a tanker. It was one of the few times the Nav Team could relax and get a chance to eat our flight lunches. We could not have completed our SIOP mission without the tankers.
Another 52 Nav/RN here. I chuckled at the lunch break story. So true. Although there were times, I didn't even get that break. On more than one 10 hour training mission, I carried that flight lunch on and off uneaten.
Love this heart warming story! ♥ Thank you Ward for recognizing our cherished unsung heroes. The passion of Lieutentant Colonel Mark Hasara must have been infectious for those who served with him. All American leadership at its finest.
As a former Beale Bandit Tanker Pilot, really appreciate this episode. Very true how little Air Force Tanker crews knew about Naval tactical packages. If I remember correctly, both services had different secure air communication that wasn’t compatible. Testament to the operators to overcome interoperability problems to get the mission accomplished. Like Lt Col Hasara didn’t refueled Navy fighters to often. But remember meeting up and dragging a flight of F-14s across the Atlantic , one of the Tomcats reported losing an engine mid flight but calmly said he was able to get it re-lit…emergency averted. Giving gas was our mission.
Thanks Ward. I’m an “old” Gas Passer. Flew from ’73 to ’79. Basic flight training in Valdosta, GA - lot’s of good bourbon. Vietnam was just over, so most flight assignments were SAC or MAC. I was lucky to get KC-135s at MCConnell AFB, in Wichita, KS - across the ramp from Boeing military. Didn’t have an attached B52 squadron so we got many diverse missions, including SR71s. Many great, good, and sad memories.
Did you ever fuel a SR71? We there some aircraft where you had to push tanker harder to allow airplanes to match speed? Sounds like a really interesting job.
My father (Ben Toney) spent his entire career with General Dynamics working on the F-111 program, retiring as the Program Director. It's good to see it being mentioned. Love these videos.
I also love the F-111 and had a model of it when I was a kid. I thought the swing wing thing was so "cool." BUT, I do love the famous quote from Admiral Tom Connolly during its development, when McNamara was trying to make the TFX be all things to all men. "There isn't enough thrust in all of Christendom to turn that thing into a Navy airplane." They gave up on trying to make the F-111 a carrier airplane and developed the F-14 instead. In the tradition of the Grumman "Cats" the F-14 was named the TOMcat in Admiral Connolly's honor.
This is not a Tanker story. One of my uncles was Frederick "Boots" Blesse who was a double ACE during the Korean War. He wrote a fighter pilot's book called "No Guts, No Glory" in which he described the tactics he used flying an F-86 to shoot down 10 enemy. The title of the video "No Tanker, No Glory" reminded me of him. Times have changed and we now have BVR technology, air to air missiles, stealth fighters, and pilots using star wars kind of situational awareness technologies. But there are still fighter pilots who study the techniques Boots used in the Korean War as a reminder of what is needed in a one-on-on dog fight to defeat the opponent. Boots went on to have a successful career in the Air Force flying just about every fighter plus the F-111 and retired as a Major General. He won the International Nellis AFB gunnery competition 3 years in a row back in the day. He was the kindest and most affable individual you'd ever meet. He didn't drink or smoke. He always had a smile and interesting stories to tell. He never cussed. Yet he had a wicked sense of humor. He died at age 91 while on the 4th hole of his golf country club course when he fell ill and was rushed to the hospital where he died a couple of hours later without regaining consciousness. As a teenager he was a below par golfer and had he not gone into the Air Force, he could have been a pro golfer. Out of the cockpit, Boots was just a sweet gentleman. Once in the cockpit, he was a possessed killer. I miss him.
Love the story, great to hear a fellow 135 pilot…..I flew them in the early 70’s, the water wagons. My best memory was the heavy and very long take off rolls. My longest I remember every bit of today was in 1972, rolled 11,500 ft on 12,000 avail and water ran out at 25 feet of altitude…..It was at Loring AFB, no obstacles thank God. Actually loved this bird, stable, flew like a dream.
I’ve mentioned this on your channel before, but I was a new structural design engineer at Grumman in the mid-1980s and was tasked with shortening the probe panel and lengthening the forward articulating door so that the panel was not extending beyond the bend in the f-14 probe. This was to cut down on baskets snagging that panel and breaking it off. At the time I knew nothing about air ops and the actual duty cycle of that component and the context of that assignment, and today that experience is just a memory with no follow up or record I can have or share with my kids and grandkids, until now. Thanks.
Dad was a KC-97 and then a KC-135 boomer from around 1954 till 1963 when he retired after 20 years (he dropped out of high school and enlisted in February 1942). We were stationed at Altus AFB OK. He told a great story about a picture in the ready room. Two flying saucers are observing a 135 refueling a B-52. The caption reads “don’t shoot them while they’re mating”😊. Great video Mooch.
Excellent Excellent Excellent! We have the best military in world, our people, our equipment. Interoperability, innovation, mission focus. One Team, One Fight. I felt an immense amount of pride watching this, I love the military! Excellent job Mooch and thank you!
I was a crew chief on both the KC-10 and KC-135. Started on the -10 in SAC at Shady J and then transitioned to the -135 and I loved every min of crewing the jets. Thanks a lot for this great interview.
I spent a little over 27 years as a Boom Operator (greatest job of my life). Four different squadrons and traveled to/over all kinds of places. {@Kevincameron8437 is a great cook!}
Former 135 nav checking in... I flew during the '90s and had a blast. Great crews, fun mission, and interesting trips (this was post-Cold War/alert, so we went everywhere). In the early 2000s I was stationed at Randolph AFB in San Antonio. The old Vietnam War-era F-4 drivers who hung out there wouldn't let me buy a drink once they found out I was a TOAD ("Take Off And Die"). They said that on many occasions, tanker crews would go into contested air space to "grab" fighters that were running on fumes. They never forgot this, and never missed an opportunity to pay it forward. Great guys, great memories...
My dad was second in command of the aerospace ground crew at Barksdale in the 1970s and various open houses I met many boom operators that would walk visitors through how a refueling goes. Later I talked to B-52 pilots who depended on the KC-135s, and tanker drivers are the unsung heroes. Thank you for your service!
Story time with Ward is always so special! My brother was one of those F-15 guys flying CAP. I was on SECDEF security detail and remember hearing about all of this. What a thrill to relax and listen to Mark’s recollection and recounting.
As a Marine Corps aviator listening to this caused my heart to begin racing and ended with my eyes watering. Thank you so much for this content Mooch. God Bless you Sluggo - Elmo
❤Loved this interview. When DS started I was a Sophmore in High School. I followed everyday the news. I have Desert Storm trading cards that I will never sell. I built lots of 1/48 aircraft from Navy, Marines and AirForce during that time. Thank you all for your service!!!! A civilian that understands.
When I was at Bragg I got to go up in the EC-135 and got to lay down in the boom operator position just to check it out. Looking around from that point of view was a blast. A bit cold back there.
I have mentioned previously that I was an F-15 Crew Chief at the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis AFB in Vegas from 1981-85. I never was in the "real" military, from the perspective of the very real possibility that the bad guys were trying to kill us. I listen to stories like this and think how truly Sierra Hotel you guys that strap a jet to your arses really are. These stories are so important to be told for those that come behind us. We live in a time where anything is possible, even probable, and we cannot be too ready. Thanks for everything you do, Mooch.
I remember this vividly as a tanker pilot. We were supporting Southern watch and we had this computer wiz that could consolidate the ATO and print out the requirements for our crews. I know computers but he built this basic software to generate our flight schedules. It had all the numbers, flight plan location, offloads and comms for the mission. I was the ops off for our detachment and I was amazed with this ingenuity. I’ll never forget how much this was a tremendous aid to supporting the operation. It sure beat going to the SCIFF to get a paper copy and figure out the schedule manually.
Sluggo! He said in his podcast you guys recorded last year and it never came out. So glad you got to record again this year!!! Awesome! Tanker gas kicks ass! @Markhasara
Even though I was Army I did get to fly in some KC 10s going back and forth cross country. We did get to pass gas to some AF planes, but I wasn't in the back during the fueling. They were very versatile aircraft and an incredible mission. It is great to hear stories from dedicated professionals.
My late friend Scott was a ground guy working in POL (Petroleum, Oils and Lubricants I believe). When he was joking around he would call himself a "SAC Trained Killer"). Thanks for bringing that memory back!
Amazing first person live history! Thank you Ward, excellent interview skills. KC-135 teams were/are amazing. Had the chance to meet/fly with them at Grissom.
I Absolutely loved this interview! More enthusiasm and pure spirit in a voice than I've heard in a long time. And from a perspective that was new yet familiar as a former KA-3 driver.
This was mesmerizing to watch & listen to. But it was over too soon..!! I would have loved to watch another 30 minutes with you and him. Excellent as always...!!!
Ward, Retired USAF here (71 thru 95). Best interview ever. Spent a little time with Navy and Marines (much more with Army). Thanks for bringing Mark onboard to tell his story. All the best!
11:05 what an amazing photo! Grumman Iron Works! Why the Navy retired the KA-6 and put that additional mission onto Super Hornets before a dedicated refueling platform was operational is a bit of a head scratcher.
Imagine you're above the clouds at night. It's a full moon and the tops of the clouds are shimmering. Above is a dark sky with stars twinkling. Off in the distance you spot a tanker with lights blinking. The tanker rolls out in front and above you. The boom extends and the Christmas tree lights under the tanker start flashing. Cockpit light turns green at hookup and gas starts flowing. A few minutes later both aircraft turn away in opposite directions. It's a beautiful sight I witnessed many times on AWACS planes. I miss it.
My Dad and oldest brothere were career USAF, my other bother and I were Army. I grew up at Offutt AFB Bellevue NE, now retired Airbus Capt American Airlines ...... love your page .... love this post.
Outstanding interview ❤ It's not much about tankers' job. You showed how exciting, interesting and necessary job tankers make. I have to buy the book written by this awesome guy. Thanks for this video. Best wishes from Poland 🫡
The story about Boots put a lump in my throat too. I know from my 22 plus years in the USAF (18 years as an air traffic controller) the tanker guys took a lot of crap. Without them, the rest of the fly and fight community would not be able to complete the mission. I knew a few fighter pilots who had their asses saved by tanker crews.
I’m just a gas hauler truck driver but I definitely can relate to his obvious pride in his service. As 1st squad leader in my line haul platoon in Iraq we hauled the beans, bullets and band-aids!
Great interview! I remember a documentary from the early 90s called “Eagles Over the Gulf” which I’d highly recommend. But in the segment on aerial refueling they interviewed several pilots who sung their praises for the tankers going over and above and out of their way to help them get home.
I was at Jeda with you during desert storm. I flew a B-52 from the 379th BW. We stayed at the HAJ giant airport tent for the first month and a half. We tanked with you guys several times over the Red Sea and on the border. I was there when the R model lost two engines do to wake turbulence coming out of Jeda.
NOKAWTG! Former Pease crew chief here. Hung many drogues in my 30 year career. During, and then after Desert Storm, we had to hang drogues for many contingencies like Operation Allied Force, Deny Flight, Enduring Freedom. The packages always had a contingent of Navy aircraft and depending on the mission, drogues were needed for Navy/Marines aircraft. It was a daily occurrence for a couple three Tankers daily.
Great episode!! During OIF, and my military service days, I was at a C-JSOAC and have been through a Intro to Special Ops course. Going though the course and the assignment, you learn so much about interoperability, planning, and coordination. As you both pointed out, it takes *a lot* to run an air war. My time in the military is done. But my fear is all of the lessons we learned aren't getting passed on to the newer generation. In the next conflict, we'll lose precious time (and lives) reinventing the wheel. Thanks for the interview and bringing these stories to life!
I built your mission packages during Shield and was the guy who would receive and break the ATO for Tankers at Jeddah and then built the SPINS binders. I was out of Robins. Arrived at Jeddah Sept 10th and left March 14th. I'm sure I briefed your crew out at some point. Nice to reconnect.
Thanks to both of you for your service. Thank you Ward for your videos very much enjoyed and appreciated. I was a 130 engine prop mechanic stationed in the UAE October 90 to April 91. It was great being part of the US war machine at its best .
I live near Grissom Air Force Base, Bunker Hill Indiana which was originally a Navy base with a huge training pool, home of the 434th refueling wing, a lot of Navy, Air Force history there
Simply fascinating! What a great conversation from two different service points of view. Thank you both for sharing this information with the rest of us.
Great interview and huge respect to Col Hasara for his ingenuity in the most difficult of circumstances, and all that he achieved during his military career.
When in the 15th Air Force band 1978-80, we were asked to perform at the rollout of the first KC-10 tanker. I got to sit in the comfortable boom operator's chair, a great improvement over the KC-135 bench with chin rest.
Thank you Ward for bringing the perspective of the KC-135 pilot and boom operators, the ease with which all parties make these refuellings look....far belies the difficulties involved with the differences between boom and drogue methods, and obviously the additional inherent dangers that the "Iron Maiden" made the process in topping up the USN aircraft....a brilliant operation by all involved. Love all these cross Service stories, it makes for compelling listening and watching, for us that are none the wiser for the intricacies involved in the Gas Stations in the sky. Cheers from Aus!!!! 🍻🍻🍻🍻
Colonel, thanks for your service. I've been around the 135 most of my life living near Rickenbacker ANGB (AFB). Being in a CAP squadron on base we were around them a lot. Our CO and other senior members were from the 160th ARG. Was lucky enough to go on a flight once but was didn't do a fueling. Thank you for a great look in to the tankers role.
Interesting conversation. Hearing the discussion on the learning curve, pioneering the joint work, etc. Hearing the limitations of the 135 at that point, really brings home the capability of the 10 and the 46. KC-46 brings so much more to the fight for working with probe equipped receivers. The integrated centerline drogue reel, plus the ability for the optional wing drogue pods, the higher flow rate than 1k-lbs / min, and 200k plus of total fuel. Worked on the 46 for 9 years until I recently retired. NKAWTG.
SIOP! I haven't heard that term in a very long time. I'm a retired weapons loader. Did the SIOP thing on B-52s. Later cross-trained to boom operator on KC-135R models.
i love these stories i worked on the kc135a at blytheville afb 97 oms 1981 to 1984 when it was still S A C most of the air crew was awesome we only had the kc135a b52g and the t37 tweets there
After watching Colonel Hasara, I just had to buy his book. This guy is a storyteller! 💯 and he had the FPV on the night of Jan 16 1991 tanking the Weasel package! Please continue with more interviews! 🏆 Ward, you've gone next level this year, you've become indispensable now...🏆
@@lonpfrb Motion seconded. Fast ingress. Low altitude. Those guys tickle the dragon with seconds to spare, threading their way through multiple emitters, hoping to decoy, or burn through the kitchen sinks and telephone poles thrown up in their teeth...We need a SEAD guy, Mooch! 🥶
It's a simple matter of fact; "No One Kicks Ass Without Tanker Gass..."
This is all they need to know!!!!
That is 100% true
Sounds like a TNP quote
They learned that the hard way at Nellis, during Red Flag. The base decided to refuel the tankers on the ground, just before takeoff time, because they do it that way with fighters. The first day we were there, we cancelled the first four tanker flights, due to waiting for fuel. The base had to cancel el 60 fighter sorties because no tankers were available to keep them in fuel to play. After that, we always got fuel first.
I kick ass without tanker gas.
Goes to show: All jobs (not just the glamour movie role ones) are immensely honorable and important.
Love the “pointy jet” guys, but this man kicked butt and saved lives too.
Thank you, Sir.
"Top Pump"
The best SAC movie where the KC-135 tanker is the star is:
Streetcar Do You Read Me?
Kraft Suspense Theater
Starring Pete Malloy and Jarrod Barkley. Available right here on the TH-cams.
Those glory guys can't fly too far or too fast without fuel...
Team effort 👍🏽
Thank you Sir!
Excellent interview! My dad was a career Air Force pilot and flew KC-135s most of his career. Tanker crews were always proud in their ability to "Pass Gas." I was at the Palm Springs, CA air museum about a year and a half ago and there was a reunion of Vietnam era pilots. One guy had a classic leather jacket with all the squadron patches on it. There was also a large "Texaco" patch, square on the middle of the back of the jacket. I asked him about the "Texaco" patch, thinking he might have been a corporate pilot or something like that. He told me that as a fighter pilot, after about an hour or so of flying, you start thinking about fuel and they various pilots would say, "Let's go Texaco" when it was time to get fuel. When you think about it, the US is one of the few countries in the world that can project air power, anywhere, anytime. Tankers are an integral part of that organizational capability.
The most astounding planning I have learned of was Britain refuelling Vulcan bombers to reach the Falkland Islands during that conflict. Boggles the mind how they came up with that.
It has been said that the US military is really a world class logistics organization that occasionally dabbles in combat.
@@charlieross-BRM If you read Ward's trilogy, Punk's War, there are several aspects of fighter's refueling over Iraq and Afghanistan. Most tanker crews (US, French, etc) in the book were very accommodating to fly the intended or needed course of the fighters, to help them extend their range. The Brit tanker crews were "by the book" and wouldn't deviate from their assigned track.
@@charlieross-BRM
Not from Britian -- The Operation Black Buck raids were staged from RAF Ascension Island, close to the Equator.
Still a 6,600 mile round trip, very impressive.
Excellent comment, Dave. So often the people in supporting roles get little or none of the recognition they deserve. Mooch, I loved this interview! We who flew the fast movers were always glad to see the lights of a Stratotanker 30° off the nose, halfway through his offset tanker track rendezvous and very soon rolling out a half mile right in front of us, exactly the way it was diagrammed in the manual.
For 14 years I was in the Lincoln, Nebraska ANG unit, 173rd TRS, flying RF-4C TAC recce jets. Our typical night training schedule was to launch two flights of four Phantons, one at 1800L and one at 1900. Crews were a mixed bag of local guys coming in after work, and out of the area/state commuters in town to fly for three or four days. The profile was to launch and rendezvous with a tanker orbiting in our MOA, take a token thousand pounds of gas and depart individually for an IFR low level route, practicing radar low altitude navigation and infrared photo reconnaissance. The KC-135 Stratotankers were usually from our sister ANG unit at Forbes ANGB outside Topeka, Kansas. They were always on time and ready to pass gas. Over time, it became quite routine and fun except in bad weather. I remember one night when the ceiling was about 1,500' overcast, but good visibility below clouds. I was the second element (USN/USMC "section") leader. It was very dark when our four jets rolled onto the long old runway left for us by SAC when they closed the B-47/KC-97 base many years before. Eight J-79s rum led and whined as we lined up, pointing our needle sharp-nosed radomes due south for an 85% RPM runup. After a few seconds of roaring exhaust, Lead and two rolled, the seventeen foot long flames of their bright afterburner lightoffs temporarily destroyed our night vision. Ten seconds later, I released brakes and felt the comforting surge as my 'burners lit, and we rapidly accelerated down runway 17R. Gear and flaps up, airspeed 300, out of burner. We knew the clag above us was thick and forecasted to be solid all the way up to the tanker's altitude, so lead stayed below the ceiling to give us time to effect a join up. I aimed for his dim flashing anti-smash beacon and smoothly got my flight aboard as we started our 350K climb toward the MOA.
It was tough to see the flight lead. In those days our airplanes were still painted dark green camouflage, and all I could see was Lead's wingtip light and his glowing green electroluminescent strips on the wingtip, fuselage, and tail. The clouds were solid all the way up to FL200, making visibility within the formation challenging to say the least. Lead sent us over to refueling frequency and checked us in with the crew of the Forbes tanker, and they started down the offset track towards us and a 1,000 feet above us. We had air to air DME, but our lead WSO was good enough with our ground mapping radar to lock the tanker up twenty miles out from the rendezvous and gave us periodic distance countdown checks. The tanker, still invisible in thick cloud, reported rolling out of his turn and steadied up on the refueling track, a mile dead ahead of us on our leader's radar. Gradually we picked up some overtake speed, inching forward towards the tanker while remaining a thousand feet below his altitude. Eventually as the DME crept downward, our flight lead picked up the pulsing glow of the tanker's anticollision beacon and requested it to be extinguished lest it give us all a basmd case of spatial disorientation. Finally, in my peripheral vision, I began to pick up a slowly brightening glow of the tanker's nav and refueling director lights in the thick gloom. Our lead slowly climbed the four of us up toward the tanker's altitude, 200 feet per minute. Eventually we could see the Stratotanker's lights more clearly, about fifty yards ahead. What a beautiful sight to behold! Lead cleared us wingmen to take up position on the tanker's wingtips. As i banked slightly away fro Lead to glide behind the big four engine jet's right wing to take station with my wingman at the tip and await our turns to take fuel, I could sense the moistness of perspiration on my neck and shoulders as I marveled at the experience and professionalism that made this miracle happen, a miracle that enabled our country to project airpower around the globe whenever needed. Getting plugged and topped off seemed almost too easy following the hairy rendezvous we had just experienced!
I have a buddy who was a boom operator and he loved to point out that he was one of the few enlisted guys who all pilots were always immensely polite/respectful to by default. He guessed they weren’t fond of the idea of walking home.
A young man that I am proud to call a friend is an Air Force boom operator and trainer. His professionalism is admirable, his knowledge of aircraft is shocking and he is also a pretty damn good father.
Or swimming.
😂 I was in an Army unit, Movement Control, we managed All Ground Movements in Iraq when I was there.
Officers would call 📞 asking to "move there stuff" I'd punch it up on my computer "Sir it's scheduled for movement on _____ " they'd get mad ask for an officer, and 😂 Officer would say the same thing and hand phone back, 😂. Love it!
Or the long trip to earth via parachute.
It’s easy….my job as the tanker pilot is to get the boom on station on time. Boom does the real work.
Took quite a few hops on KC135Q's in the 80's. Really fun to be in the back when the boom operator was passing gas to SR-71's.
Lucky
Thank you, Mark, for the shoutout to Citgo/Pennzoil on Night One. Honored to Serve with you and Thank You 🙏 for the gas!✌️
@KlusoTollini and we worked together again at Kadena in 18 Wing Weapons and Tactics! What a great time in our lives Kluso! All of you reading this go buy and read his outstanding book Callsign Kluso, a fantastic read!
@@MarkHasara I bought your book immediately after viewing this interview with Mooch. I'll go get Kluso's book on your recommendation, thanks! Been enthralled with the tanker mission since I was 10, and saw when the RAF hit Port Stanly Airfield - with all those beautiful Victor converted tankers. You're a great storyteller, Colonel. I can't wait to read your book when it gets here.
Great interview. I was a BUFF Nav and Radar Nav. I spent many hours behind a tanker. It was one of the few times the Nav Team could relax and get a chance to eat our flight lunches. We could not have completed our SIOP mission without the tankers.
I was a “slick” C-130 E&H2 navigator…no in-air refueling. We got to stop & stay at all the good places whenever we went somewhere!
Another 52 Nav/RN here. I chuckled at the lunch break story. So true. Although there were times, I didn't even get that break. On more than one 10 hour training mission, I carried that flight lunch on and off uneaten.
Love this heart warming story! ♥ Thank you Ward for recognizing our cherished unsung heroes. The passion of Lieutentant Colonel Mark Hasara must have been infectious for those who served with him. All American leadership at its finest.
As a former Beale Bandit Tanker Pilot, really appreciate this episode. Very true how little Air Force Tanker crews knew about Naval tactical packages. If I remember correctly, both services had different secure air communication that wasn’t compatible. Testament to the operators to overcome interoperability problems to get the mission accomplished. Like Lt Col Hasara didn’t refueled Navy fighters to often. But remember meeting up and dragging a flight of F-14s across the Atlantic , one of the Tomcats reported losing an engine mid flight but calmly said he was able to get it re-lit…emergency averted. Giving gas was our mission.
Thanks Ward. I’m an “old” Gas Passer. Flew from ’73 to ’79. Basic flight training in Valdosta, GA - lot’s of good bourbon. Vietnam was just over, so most flight assignments were SAC or MAC. I was lucky to get KC-135s at MCConnell AFB, in Wichita, KS - across the ramp from Boeing military. Didn’t have an attached B52 squadron so we got many diverse missions, including SR71s. Many great, good, and sad memories.
Did you ever fuel a SR71?
We there some aircraft where you had to push tanker harder to allow airplanes to match speed?
Sounds like a really interesting job.
My father (Ben Toney) spent his entire career with General Dynamics working on the F-111 program, retiring as the Program Director. It's good to see it being mentioned. Love these videos.
I love the F-111. I was Mtn. Home when the first EFs started showing up. USAF ❤ 🇺🇸
I also love the F-111 and had a model of it when I was a kid. I thought the swing wing thing was so "cool." BUT, I do love the famous quote from Admiral Tom Connolly during its development, when McNamara was trying to make the TFX be all things to all men. "There isn't enough thrust in all of Christendom to turn that thing into a Navy airplane." They gave up on trying to make the F-111 a carrier airplane and developed the F-14 instead. In the tradition of the Grumman "Cats" the F-14 was named the TOMcat in Admiral Connolly's honor.
This is not a Tanker story. One of my uncles was Frederick "Boots" Blesse who was a double ACE during the Korean War.
He wrote a fighter pilot's book called "No Guts, No Glory" in which he described the tactics he used flying an F-86 to shoot down 10 enemy. The title of the video "No Tanker, No Glory" reminded me of him.
Times have changed and we now have BVR technology, air to air missiles, stealth fighters, and pilots using star wars kind of situational awareness technologies. But there are still fighter pilots who study the techniques Boots used in the Korean War as a reminder of what is needed in a one-on-on dog fight to defeat the opponent.
Boots went on to have a successful career in the Air Force flying just about every fighter plus the F-111 and retired as a Major General. He won the International Nellis AFB gunnery competition 3 years in a row back in the day.
He was the kindest and most affable individual you'd ever meet. He didn't drink or smoke. He always had a smile and interesting stories to tell. He never cussed. Yet he had a wicked sense of humor.
He died at age 91 while on the 4th hole of his golf country club course when he fell ill and was rushed to the hospital where he died a couple of hours later without regaining consciousness. As a teenager he was a below par golfer and had he not gone into the Air Force, he could have been a pro golfer.
Out of the cockpit, Boots was just a sweet gentleman. Once in the cockpit, he was a possessed killer.
I miss him.
Love the story, great to hear a fellow 135 pilot…..I flew them in the early 70’s, the water wagons. My best memory was the heavy and very long take off rolls. My longest I remember every bit of today was in 1972, rolled 11,500 ft on 12,000 avail and water ran out at 25 feet of altitude…..It was at Loring AFB, no obstacles thank God. Actually loved this bird, stable, flew like a dream.
B52's in mid !60's at Loring. No obstacles indeed but oh that ice and snow
GREAT STORIES, thanks. USAF vet here, assigned to Barksdale AFB, 1974, 2nd FMS, SAC, B-52 and KC-135s there at the time.
I’ve mentioned this on your channel before, but I was a new structural design engineer at Grumman in the mid-1980s and was tasked with shortening the probe panel and lengthening the forward articulating door so that the panel was not extending beyond the bend in the f-14 probe. This was to cut down on baskets snagging that panel and breaking it off. At the time I knew nothing about air ops and the actual duty cycle of that component and the context of that assignment, and today that experience is just a memory with no follow up or record I can have or share with my kids and grandkids, until now. Thanks.
Dad was a KC-97 and then a KC-135 boomer from around 1954 till 1963 when he retired after 20 years (he dropped out of high school and enlisted in February 1942). We were stationed at Altus AFB OK. He told a great story about a picture in the ready room. Two flying saucers are observing a 135 refueling a B-52. The caption reads “don’t shoot them while they’re mating”😊. Great video Mooch.
Excellent Excellent Excellent! We have the best military in world, our people, our equipment. Interoperability, innovation, mission focus. One Team, One Fight. I felt an immense amount of pride watching this, I love the military! Excellent job Mooch and thank you!
I was a crew chief on both the KC-10 and KC-135. Started on the -10 in SAC at Shady J and then transitioned to the -135 and I loved every min of crewing the jets. Thanks a lot for this great interview.
135 CC is one of the best jobs in the AF.
I spent a little over 27 years as a Boom Operator (greatest job of my life). Four different squadrons and traveled to/over all kinds of places. {@Kevincameron8437 is a great cook!}
Former 135 nav checking in...
I flew during the '90s and had a blast. Great crews, fun mission, and interesting trips (this was post-Cold War/alert, so we went everywhere).
In the early 2000s I was stationed at Randolph AFB in San Antonio. The old Vietnam War-era F-4 drivers who hung out there wouldn't let me buy a drink once they found out I was a TOAD ("Take Off And Die"). They said that on many occasions, tanker crews would go into contested air space to "grab" fighters that were running on fumes. They never forgot this, and never missed an opportunity to pay it forward.
Great guys, great memories...
Very interesting… the KC10 tanker of the Netherlands Air Force was my ride to my deployment in Bosnia 1996 …. Sweet memories
My dad was second in command of the aerospace ground crew at Barksdale in the 1970s and various open houses I met many boom operators that would walk visitors through how a refueling goes. Later I talked to B-52 pilots who depended on the KC-135s, and tanker drivers are the unsung heroes. Thank you for your service!
Story time with Ward is always so special! My brother was one of those F-15 guys flying CAP. I was on SECDEF security detail and remember hearing about all of this. What a thrill to relax and listen to Mark’s recollection and recounting.
As a Marine Corps aviator listening to this caused my heart to begin racing and ended with my eyes watering. Thank you so much for this content Mooch. God Bless you Sluggo - Elmo
Thanks Elmo @kegyen!
❤Loved this interview. When DS started I was a Sophmore in High School. I followed everyday the news. I have Desert Storm trading cards that I will never sell. I built lots of 1/48 aircraft from Navy, Marines and AirForce during that time. Thank you all for your service!!!! A civilian that understands.
Thanks Ward. I love your channel and respect from Canada. Terrific and very informative interview!
The camaraderie between the services is heart warming. Just a buncha good folks trying to do a rough job. Love the stories Ward
When I was at Bragg I got to go up in the EC-135 and got to lay down in the boom operator position just to check it out. Looking around from that point of view was a blast. A bit cold back there.
Mark is the best! Passionate, experienced and a good friend. We’ve had him on our podcast multiple times. We love his stories! 🇺🇸
Thanks to you three @rampcheckglobal bros!
I have mentioned previously that I was an F-15 Crew Chief at the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis AFB in Vegas from 1981-85. I never was in the "real" military, from the perspective of the very real possibility that the bad guys were trying to kill us. I listen to stories like this and think how truly Sierra Hotel you guys that strap a jet to your arses really are. These stories are so important to be told for those that come behind us. We live in a time where anything is possible, even probable, and we cannot be too ready. Thanks for everything you do, Mooch.
I remember this vividly as a tanker pilot. We were supporting Southern watch and we had this computer wiz that could consolidate the ATO and print out the requirements for our crews. I know computers but he built this basic software to generate our flight schedules. It had all the numbers, flight plan location, offloads and comms for the mission. I was the ops off for our detachment and I was amazed with this ingenuity. I’ll never forget how much this was a tremendous aid to supporting the operation. It sure beat going to the SCIFF to get a paper copy and figure out the schedule manually.
Sluggo! He said in his podcast you guys recorded last year and it never came out. So glad you got to record again this year!!! Awesome! Tanker gas kicks ass! @Markhasara
Even though I was Army I did get to fly in some KC 10s going back and forth cross country. We did get to pass gas to some AF planes, but I wasn't in the back during the fueling. They were very versatile aircraft and an incredible mission. It is great to hear stories from dedicated professionals.
My late friend Scott was a ground guy working in POL (Petroleum, Oils and Lubricants I believe). When he was joking around he would call himself a "SAC Trained Killer"). Thanks for bringing that memory back!
Amazing first person live history! Thank you Ward, excellent interview skills. KC-135 teams were/are amazing. Had the chance to meet/fly with them at Grissom.
Ward, this is a killer video. And the comments below are terrific as well.
I Absolutely loved this interview! More enthusiasm and pure spirit in a voice than I've heard in a long time. And from a perspective that was new yet familiar as a former KA-3 driver.
This was mesmerizing to watch & listen to. But it was over too soon..!! I would have loved to watch another 30 minutes with you and him. Excellent as always...!!!
Ward, Retired USAF here (71 thru 95). Best interview ever. Spent a little time with Navy and Marines (much more with Army). Thanks for bringing Mark onboard to tell his story. All the best!
Ward has fantastic guests, but this guy is soooo good. A natural
It doesn't happen very often, but this episode gave me goosebumps and tears. Thank you for your service! Every job is important.
11:05 what an amazing photo! Grumman Iron Works! Why the Navy retired the KA-6 and put that additional mission onto Super Hornets before a dedicated refueling platform was operational is a bit of a head scratcher.
Thank you gentlemen & all on this channel for your Service. Bless you all 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Imagine you're above the clouds at night. It's a full moon and the tops of the clouds are shimmering. Above is a dark sky with stars twinkling. Off in the distance you spot a tanker with lights blinking. The tanker rolls out in front and above you. The boom extends and the Christmas tree lights under the tanker start flashing. Cockpit light turns green at hookup and gas starts flowing. A few minutes later both aircraft turn away in opposite directions. It's a beautiful sight I witnessed many times on AWACS planes. I miss it.
Good yarn Hasara, thanks for putting him on Mooch.
Sluggo wrote a great book. Great to see him in this interview. Thanks, Mooch!
My Dad and oldest brothere were career USAF, my other bother and I were Army. I grew up at Offutt AFB Bellevue NE, now retired Airbus Capt American Airlines ...... love your page .... love this post.
Another great episode. I was AF aircraft electrician. Always enjoy hearing pilot stories of aircraft i maintained.
Outstanding interview ❤
It's not much about tankers' job. You showed how exciting, interesting and necessary job tankers make.
I have to buy the book written by this awesome guy.
Thanks for this video. Best wishes from Poland 🫡
The story about Boots put a lump in my throat too. I know from my 22 plus years in the USAF (18 years as an air traffic controller) the tanker guys took a lot of crap. Without them, the rest of the fly and fight community would not be able to complete the mission. I knew a few fighter pilots who had their asses saved by tanker crews.
Thanks!
7:19 "Stop helping "..... also me to my wife all the time. Bless her heart ❤
I’m just a gas hauler truck driver but I definitely can relate to his obvious pride in his service. As 1st squad leader in my line haul platoon in Iraq we hauled the beans, bullets and band-aids!
Great interview! I remember a documentary from the early 90s called “Eagles Over the Gulf” which I’d highly recommend. But in the segment on aerial refueling they interviewed several pilots who sung their praises for the tankers going over and above and out of their way to help them get home.
I was at Jeda with you during desert storm. I flew a B-52 from the 379th BW. We stayed at the HAJ giant airport tent for the first month and a half. We tanked with you guys several times over the Red Sea and on the border. I was there when the R model lost two engines do to wake turbulence coming out of Jeda.
Awesome interview Ward.
Ward Carroll, great video keep it up bro
Mark Hasara was fantastic to listen to. More interviews with him, please.
NOKAWTG!
Former Pease crew chief here. Hung many drogues in my 30 year career. During, and then after Desert Storm, we had to hang drogues for many contingencies like Operation Allied Force, Deny Flight, Enduring Freedom. The packages always had a contingent of Navy aircraft and depending on the mission, drogues were needed for Navy/Marines aircraft. It was a daily occurrence for a couple three Tankers daily.
Great episode!! During OIF, and my military service days, I was at a C-JSOAC and have been through a Intro to Special Ops course. Going though the course and the assignment, you learn so much about interoperability, planning, and coordination. As you both pointed out, it takes *a lot* to run an air war. My time in the military is done. But my fear is all of the lessons we learned aren't getting passed on to the newer generation. In the next conflict, we'll lose precious time (and lives) reinventing the wheel.
Thanks for the interview and bringing these stories to life!
Loved this Ward! Great interview
I built your mission packages during Shield and was the guy who would receive and break the ATO for Tankers at Jeddah and then built the SPINS binders. I was out of Robins. Arrived at Jeddah Sept 10th and left March 14th. I'm sure I briefed your crew out at some point. Nice to reconnect.
Thanks to both of you for your service. Thank you Ward for your videos very much enjoyed and appreciated. I was a 130 engine prop mechanic stationed in the UAE October 90 to April 91. It was great being part of the US war machine at its best .
Very interesting. As we said in the Navy....."Well done." I was PN3 USS FOX(DLG-33) Vietnam 1968-69.
I live near Grissom Air Force Base, Bunker Hill Indiana which was originally a Navy base with a huge training pool, home of the 434th refueling wing, a lot of Navy, Air Force history there
I was stationed there for 13 years. Crew Chief on the tankers
Another great interview , well done Mooch !
Simply fascinating! What a great conversation from two different service points of view. Thank you both for sharing this information with the rest of us.
Great interview and huge respect to Col Hasara for his ingenuity in the most difficult of circumstances, and all that he achieved during his military career.
Thanks!
Thanks guys for a righteous video.
Thanks for the support!
Amazing interview! Another great job making sure these stories live on forever.
I would love to see an in-depth interview with Mark. I'm sure he has many, many more stories to tell and lessons to teach.
Still feeling it after all these years. What a great lesson. Thanks W
When in the 15th Air Force band 1978-80, we were asked to perform at the rollout of the first KC-10 tanker. I got to sit in the comfortable boom operator's chair, a great improvement over the KC-135 bench with chin rest.
Ward this episode is your most engrossing episode. Thank you and Lieutenant Colonel Mark Hasara.
Thanks for those good words and coming by to take a look @vhostovich!
Thank you Ward for bringing the perspective of the KC-135 pilot and boom operators, the ease with which all parties make these refuellings look....far belies the difficulties involved with the differences between boom and drogue methods, and obviously the additional inherent dangers that the "Iron Maiden" made the process in topping up the USN aircraft....a brilliant operation by all involved. Love all these cross Service stories, it makes for compelling listening and watching, for us that are none the wiser for the intricacies involved in the Gas Stations in the sky.
Cheers from Aus!!!! 🍻🍻🍻🍻
Awesome interview ! Really brings to life "Joint Operations" !
Excellent chat with the tanker guy Ward! I was at hook a couple of years ago and the beer insulation device you gave me is still in service !!!😊
Mark's book is great! Great video Mooch! I am recommending this video with my veteran group for chatter.
One of my favorite interviews so far.
Great hearing the dedication and professionalism of our war fighters.
I think that this is the best episode you have ever done Ward thank you from an old army guy!
One of the best interviews you've ever done.
Super cool interview. What a great pilot. These guys behind the scenes bringing the gas.
This is by way far one of your best episodes. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you Mooch!
Awesome interview. I just bought the book on amazon right now. Can't wait to read it.
Colonel, thanks for your service. I've been around the 135 most of my life living near Rickenbacker ANGB (AFB). Being in a CAP squadron on base we were around them a lot. Our CO and other senior members were from the 160th ARG. Was lucky enough to go on a flight once but was didn't do a fueling. Thank you for a great look in to the tankers role.
Interesting conversation. Hearing the discussion on the learning curve, pioneering the joint work, etc.
Hearing the limitations of the 135 at that point, really brings home the capability of the 10 and the 46. KC-46 brings so much more to the fight for working with probe equipped receivers. The integrated centerline drogue reel, plus the ability for the optional wing drogue pods, the higher flow rate than 1k-lbs / min, and 200k plus of total fuel. Worked on the 46 for 9 years until I recently retired. NKAWTG.
Great episode. My son is a boomer on a KC-135.
I live near Fairchild AFB & get to watch the KC-135's all the time. I also get to see Navy planes (P-8s, etc) coming in from Whidbey Island, WA.
SIOP! I haven't heard that term in a very long time. I'm a retired weapons loader. Did the SIOP thing on B-52s. Later cross-trained to boom operator on KC-135R models.
Another great interview Ward. Always educational to hear the stories from all the roles that make the team.
i love these stories i worked on the kc135a at blytheville afb 97 oms 1981 to 1984 when it was still S A C most of the air crew was awesome we only had the kc135a b52g and the t37 tweets there
After watching Colonel Hasara, I just had to buy his book. This guy is a storyteller! 💯 and he had the FPV on the night of Jan 16 1991 tanking the Weasel package! Please continue with more interviews! 🏆 Ward, you've gone next level this year, you've become indispensable now...🏆
@WardCaroll Please can we have a Weasel package! SEAD matters!
@@lonpfrb Motion seconded. Fast ingress. Low altitude. Those guys tickle the dragon with seconds to spare, threading their way through multiple emitters, hoping to decoy, or burn through the kitchen sinks and telephone poles thrown up in their teeth...We need a SEAD guy, Mooch! 🥶
Hope Mark gets nominated for a Moochie. Good teller of stories...excellent episode.
What a great story! hat's off to these patriots! Made an old guy tear up watching this. Guys like this is why the US Armed Forces are so great!
I live next to Rickenbacker. I'm lucky enough to see the KC135's all the time. These guys are way underrated.
As a AMS with VF-32, I replace many a windshield on the F-14 from the drogue cracking it. I actually took one home and made a table with it.
Man, if there's one thing our country is blessed with, is we have Patriots like these two men.
God bless America!
Thanks for the info and stories, great job gentlemen!
Excellent!!! One of the best interviews I've ever seen. Two pros.