Clay Pot Heaters - Do They Work?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2023
- Flower pot heaters are popular with lots of DIY solutions, but do they work?
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Clay Pot Heaters - Do They Work?
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If all the people had basic knowledge of the law of physics and chemistry, many products and gimmicks we see worldwide could not be sold.
No one is claiming that they produce more energy, it's about thermal mass and how that energy is distributed. If you had 20 candles burning in a room totally naked, and then you had 5 clay pots with 4 candles each underneath them, you would find the room much more comfortable with the clay pots simply due to the fact that the heat isn't all up at the ceiling, and it's being absorbed and then let out at a slower rate.
Just saying "they don't work because you can't create energy" is more than a little inaccurate in terms of the way they're used, not to mention you run exactly zero tests to prove your hypothesis. When you've got some data to back up your claim, let us know, but right now all you have is an opinion.
Had a family member discover this "miracle" magic heater a few years ago. They were SO excited and went on and on about how much electricity they were going to save... strange, but they never ever mentioned it again and I never saw it in their home after that first day.
Lol too funny! 😂
I would agree with this gentleman. When I was camping in my van, I tried this clay pot method. I was very disappointed. Yes, the pot became extremely hot, but the heat did not radiate through out the small area of my van to warm it.
The physics applications to this is that the clay pots allow the air inside to be heated faster than the larger room. Like a hot air balloon. In effect, you are focusing the heat from the candles. The focused heat is spread over the larger area of the clay pot (larger than the candle flame, that is). This is one of the main reasons for the multiple pot use. A similar use that most understand is how boiling water on the stove in cold weather will warm up the house faster than simply cooking on the stove. The pots act like the water vapor in concentrated heat transfer. I've found one of the wood stove fans on top of the pots will allow to heat the room just a bit better.
So, no, this does not allow you to create "more" heat, but it does allow you to focus the heat to utilize in a better way than a simple open flame. In the same exact manner that your house heater uses the small flame within to warm your house. Smaller flame than a fireplace, but directs heat far more efficiently.
In short, you need a lesson in applied physics.
I guess on paper it works somewhat like a masonry heater, but it's portable and in micro scale. The question is, if that even makes a difference significant enough? It's a little candle after all. To me, trying to heat a room with a candle is like trying to grow plants under a single 1W LED chip. Maybe if you put several candles, you would be able to at least warm up your hands, but these are still only candles after all.
I've used them as emergency heat when the power went out in winter. I had several in a room and I used "Crisco candles" for the flame. The room wasn't balmy, but it definitely was much warmer than outside. With a candle the heat goes straight up. The pots help keep the heat lower in the room. As you explained, you'll never get more energy than the candle produces, but you can distribute it differently. The hole in the pot has to be covered too, unlike the one he is showing as an example.
I will have to try your suggestion of a Stirling fan with them, next time.
@@SimaShangde One I have seen on YT ,they use more than one candle like four to nine, if using a larger pot base and separate the pots with a bolt and washers. This idea also depends on other factors as far as effectiveness goes. Such as how new are your windows in your home? If doing it to heat a reg house. How well insulated is the dwelling how air tight ?
We moved into a triple wide manufactured in 1999; in 2020 and our old house had one pane windows with no storm windows. It had natural gas appliances as this place does. Our former power bill was in the hundreds of dollars. My bill for this month at our "new home" was $45 We had just had our 2nd power out this week and it stayed 70 degrees in our house just using two burners on low on our natural gas cook stove. (Yes, we have a carbon Monoxide Detector.)
I could see how these heaters would be awesome in Arizona. Where you don't need very much heat and you just want that comfort of having a little heat near you?
In my experience heating a garage when I need the workspace in Massachusetts during the winter, it’s a more efficient way to distribute the heat than just the open flame of a candle. It keeps my feet warm when I’m standing on my work table. I also noticed that a lot of heat comes out of the hole. I smoke so I can see that the heat that comes out of it goes up in a colum. I also tried closing the whole to try and make it hotter, but the flames goes out when I do that.
Yes. It works to keep our green house from freezing. Two small candles and five clay pots radiate the heat out slowly. Cheap! I need the heat low on the ground and that's how we use it. It works for our application.
Makes total sense
That's really the main benefit; localizing/retaining the heat in a close space. Like right now the one between my feet keeping them warmer on a chilly night.
This is what happens when you watch American Idol instead of doing your science homework...
no wrong, so sorry the pot holds the heat .... It has nothing to do with the candle but what happens to the heat of the candle and stores it . The problem is with your ideas is you forget it is for small rooms and small areas ... btw it worked (and is working) in the Northern Ontario wilds (in small cabins).
You set up the heater wrong, you are supposed to cover the hole on the top - usually the base of the planter is used for this. This does work. The terra-cotta heats up and radiates heat even after the candles burn out. This heater hack raises the temperature of a small room by 10 to 15 degrees and can save someone’s life when the power goes out. Is it a replacement for a modern heating system? Probably not. But it can save someone’s life, and it is used across the country by people with greenhouses to keep their plants from freezing in the winter. I urge you to try this experiment again, this time actually try it in a small room and put together a real heating system, not a tiny terracotta planter with one tea light.
Neither "produces" more heat. The clay pot slows the escape of the heat. Do clay pots work at slowing the escape of heat? Yes! Two thumbs up, turn that frown upside down!
While a clay pot is not enough of a thermal battery. It is used to store energy, not produce energy. If your burning a candle and have a thermal battery releasing heat you have more heat than just burning a candle. They have fireplaces in Europe that they can burn one fire a day and it heat the home all day. Long after the fire is out.
"If your burning a candle and have a thermal battery releasing heat you have more heat than just burning a candle." - not possible - we know this physics very well.
I tried this out yesterday, approx -10 Celsius. It seemed like the candles under the pots burned much slower than just being out in the open. It was also nice having a larger radiant area to warm up my hands.
“In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics.” H. Simpson
I think its more important to ask if they reduce the chance of ground tempts getting too low for tender plants in a poly/greenhouse. I have seen ones with a larger pot over the first and a broken bit of pot covering the.
These are meant to act as stoorage heaters with a 24hr candles. Just like a five gallion drum of water will gather heat during the day and let it out at night.
The point is not to heat the space. But rather to reduce the chance of frost damage to tender plants in the area around these pots. Not that they heat the entire atea.
Its also a safety with naked flame. Esp hen you may have fleece around the place. Nobody wants to wake up to a burned down poly.
I agree totally about it giving off a set amount of heat. Its more a question of does it keep a decent percentage of that heat where it's most needed.
Yep, the amount of heat energy the candle puts out won't change by putting it under a clay pot, but the point is to direct that energy in a way that works better for you than just heating up a small spot on the ceiling
The same distance around the candle will not be as warm as the pot, so the pot does help radiate a more broad area of heat than the candle.
Good to know, I thought about this for when the power goes out.
It does work for proximity of the room space. When I'm in south America in Bogotá. It really works at night when it's cold. It's great heats the room efficiency
So while the output will be the same the location of the heat will not be.
The convection fans that work off heat that you for example put on top of you furnace help to spread the heat in the room. Much of the heat energy would otherwise be wasted by super heating the ceiling and the floor remaining cold.
The clay pot is the same principal by spreading the heat over a larger area and keeping the heat retained it does not instantly rise to the ceiling and heat just the ceiling.
There is no argument of thermodynamics to be made here, it's as simple as pointing your space heater out the window is not going to be as effective as as having on the floor.
Now I don't own a clay pot heater, I've seen them in many houses here. I live in subarctic Sweden where -40 temperatures aren't all that uncommon and the sun doesn't rise for a couple months a year.
A lot of people heat their homes with a wood burning furnace in their living room and these types of heaters are a common sight in different versions.
They have always been around, in one form or another and it's just a new take on very old and very real and functional thing
Värmeljuskamin, they are nothing new, they have been around since candles became a household commodity. The ones I have seen are more decorative, usually ceramic little houses or made to look more like a lantern. Or they have a bowl over the top you put fragrances in.
They're even recommended by the government for crisis warming.
www.krisinformation.se/detta-kan-handa/hemberedskap/varme-vid-kris
I have a double unit - they are each constructed using 2 pots, m10 threaded bar. At least 10 nuts, numerous penny washers and an eye bolt to hang it all from. It’s all that metalwork + the pots that absorb the heat from 3 tea lights each and then radiate it out that keeps our flat cozy. But there again I could always listen to all the doomsday merchants and put my central heating on.😮 I have been using them for 2 years and my gas bill has just got down (but I would say that wouldn’t I) 😊
I assumed the actual intention of these devices was to store some of the heat to release over a longer period, with the main horticultural purpose being to protect greenhouses against early frosts to extend the growing season. All that said, while they may act as a temporary heat sink I can't imagine an empty terra cotta point is very efficient at this. I'm guessing that within 15 minutes of the candle being out the pot will be back to ambient temperature. I'm guessing a bucket of warm water, a similar pot full of warm sand or even an incandescent light bulb would be better.
I have been saying this for years! Thank you
Thank you Mr. P. 🎃🍁🍂💚🙃
I'm curious about the conversion of the fuel to heat efficiency of the candle versus the clay pot. My question is, are the unburnt gasses from the candle converted to heat better when using the clay pot, and by what percent? For example, if the candle wax (which is melted, then starts to turn to gas, and the gas is burned) consumes 85% of this gas when alone but 95% when paired with the pot, the pot indeed produces more heat.
If, your going to do the clay pot candle heater, the ones I've seen use at least four to nine candles. The larger the room size means, to get any benefit, you will need a bigger pot.
Or, just the top of one setting on top of some bricks, or a patio paver. (12 by 12 inch) Leaving a bit of space between the bricks/ bottom of the pot for air circulation. Ambient heating :)
obviously it can't produce more heat for the same reason all electric heaters are basically the same in terms of efficiency, you're converting chemical energy (or electricity in the space heater example) at near 100% efficiency to thermal energy . I would assume the real purpose of these is to act as a radiator so the hot air rising from the wick doesn't carry too much of the heat to the top of the greenhouse immediately and it gets more evenly dispersed. The warmer air would still rise but probably more slowly .
The video I have seen also uses lard in a glass jar with the candle inside the lard. They say it will heat for about 8 days. I think that oil burning under the pot would produce more heat than a candle I think.
Are acc sythase / oxidase liquids ?
Is that why drought lowers ethylene to the growing shoots in cucumbers ? Less water = less acc = less ethylene ?
I have one that I have made. It has 3 pot inside. I can only burn 4 tea candles at a time. This is not a heater like a furnace or a small electric heater. What I use mine for is to eliminate a draft. I have an old house and a corner of the house is always cold. It take 2 hours to heat the clay pots. Then it radiate heat from the clay pot eliminating the draft. I also use it in my RV. During the summer, The night can get cool. This will radiate enough heat to take out the chill. If the RV is cold like a late autumn, I do put on the furnace.
The draft is still there - it is not eliminated.
You are quite right. The draft was not eliminated but it made it bearable. We finally fix that draft problem this summer and it cost us $8500. @@Gardenfundamentals1
@@Gardenfundamentals1LOL no kidding how can a clay pot eliminate a draft 🇨🇦 unless of course the hole that the draft in coming inis so big, they jam the clay pot in the hole to seal it up 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
A pot obviously doesn't make the candle produce more heat. There are two things that still make it "work".
1. Heat from an open flame travels upwards pretty quickly and heats the ceiling, which transfers the heat out of the room. An open environment is even worse as there's not even a ceiling to stop the heat. The pot stops the heat from escaping quickly by keeping it in the middle of the room and radiating it to all directions from there.
2. The greater the temperature difference between two things the faster the equalization. The pot slows down the entire heating process by storing the heat and giving it back to its environment much slower than the open flame would, so it prevents the room heating up quickly and then losing a lot of heat to the outside by equalization.
The first point can be understood as a parallel to heat lost through a chimney, the second one is behind mass stoves. This doesn't make a candle a miracle heating device but it does help a bit.
"The greater the temperature difference between two things the faster the equalization. " - actually it is the other way around.
@@Gardenfundamentals1I probably could have phrased it better, but english isn't my first language, so... I mean the larger the difference the faster the RATE of equalization. To put it another way, the larger the temperature difference between the outside and the room the faster the room will lose heat. When they get closer in temperature to each other the rate of equalization slows down.
Thanks for the correct evaluation. "A candle puts out a certain amount of heat, this heat cannot be amplified without the addition of external energy, laws of thermodynamics. Adding a ceramic pot or two will not increase the amount of heat from the candle. Therefore the ceramic pots are only a safety device so stupid people do not touch the open flame, just light the candles and enjoy the flame"…I posted this on many videos last year, a few thumbs up. On 1 video (can't find it) there was some back and forth chatter with the other person disputing the laws of thermodynamics...
I just want to know a simple thing.. Does it heat up a room?!
I think you're asking the question wrong - yes, obviously the clay pot doesn't create (or amplify) the heat generated by the candle. Anyone wanting to do a life-hack for energy-"production" would be fooled. However, most uses for the clay pot technique that I have seen (which I haven't tried, but I would love you to do an experiment) is to heat the local area (to which there is a difference, as you pointed out), i.e to concentrate (and radiate) heat to nearby frost-sensitive plants. To THAT question my guess is that they actually do work (to a certain degree)
I saw someone trial this in a 100 square foot space that was well insulated and his very scientific results were that it heated up the area by 1 degree. The laws of physics still stand. 🙂
@@cephalopodx7587Yes, having a human i that "room" would by much more efficient 🤗 However, if you have frost tender plants in a greenhouse were the temperature bare dips below freezing one night, then the radiant heat from this "heater" might be enough to get that plant through the night?
@@saethman That’s exactly what I used it for. It was 1 degree outside, and the little clay oven got the greenhouse up to 20 degrees(15 degrees higher than normal), which saved my heavily covered plants. The thermometer was by the plants.
A BTU is a BTU... Nice work , you are right !
On one end, anything burning produces heat at a fixed rate,
so there's literally not more heat being produced.
On the other there's effectiveness of convection and radiation that alters
how much air is being heated that can differ, but also where.
If you heat air near the ground, it'll share the heat by rising through colder air above.
If you heat air ner the ceiling, you won't feel warner at all, since the heat stays up there.
Recycling heat that's near the ceiling back down to the ground is a good way to save.
Finally, insulation, preventing heat escape. I'd start using aerogel,
since that is currently the best insulator for prevention of 99.9% convection.
They make wood stoves out of iron to collect and radiate the heat. the clay pot heater is the same principle on a smaller scale. My wood stove was cold this morning as was the room. The stove was not “producing” heat, it was storing and radiating it as will the clay pot on a very much smaller scale. So the clay pot “heater” does work, as it can store and radiate the heat of the candle in a small space more efficiently than the candle alone. I have pocket warmers that heat my pockets and my hands but really suck for warming the house.
"Do we have to actually test this? ... No"
do you know the difference between infrared radiation and convection?
Bingo.
Dear sir, I really like your videos, could you please add the caption translate of chinese? There it is but it doesn’t work. Thanks.
I love these because they retain most of the heat produced down nearer the floor intead of it all rising to the ceiling. Not once did I think they actually made more heat than the candle itself could produce, that's just a lack of education or common sense, really. I made one (houses several tealights) to sit in front of my wood-burning fireplace (which I don't use) for a little glowing accent. It doesn't do much to heat the room overall but it helps defray the cool air that still comes in from the closed damper. My cats love sleeping beside it. Their little cat egos likely think I put it there just for them!
Don't know if the work as efficient heaters but do know they cause a lot of fires when not properly constructed.
I haven't tried the clay pot idea yet, but the theory is that ceramic conducts heat. That's why they have ceramic heaters you can buy now
Correct😊
Elementary my dear Watson!
The measurement that I would like to see is, how long does the candle burn before it is fully consumed? It is possible that the chimney effect makes it burn faster. Yes, it would still be the same amount of total energy, but it may be hotter, just for less time.
To put another way, you say the candle has 30 watts. But how many watt-hours of energy does it have? Watts implies a rate of consumption that is steady. But how long will it produce 30 watts? And with the chimney, will it produce 40 watts but or a shorter time?
This would be an easy test to do.
Secondly, regardless of how much heat is produced, it may be advantageous in some situations to create radiant heat that warms the plants next to it instead of convection currents that disappear into the sky.
It burns the same amount of time, because that’s determined by the wick. All the fuel liquifies, though. You have to be careful to keep the wick upright. Your point about the radiant heat vs. convection currents is correct. That’s how this thing works. I’m sure candles with no pot cover would heat the greenhouse ceiling nicely, but my plants don’t grow there.
Wait until someone suggest burning a tub of crisco.
I did. It definitely works better than ordinary candles.
@@DDGLJ why go through all the effort instead of getting a heater or something much safer and cheaper though?
@@shawnsg As I mentioned elsewhere, my greenhouse was new, not yet wired. Also, it wasn’t supposed to get as cold as it did. Truly, it was an emergency and not something I intend to rely on- but it did work.
@@DDGLJ fair enough.
At the end of the day, all these things are just fuel sources whether it's diesel, gasoline, vegetable oil or paraffin wax. Vegetable oil has a similar btu per gallon as gasoline. It's when people get caught in the "magic thinking" part that makes my head hurt. Or when people get caught up in the DIY aspect and make things more difficult, more expensive and more dangerous which I am occasionally guilty of.
I did it.. It works pretty well. In my case it was because of a power outage for a number of days caused by a freak winter storm, in an area that seldom sees such low temps. I had Crisco and I had multiple flower pots. I got through it quite well by throwing together a number of these heaters.
It's basically like a dam if the heat was a river. Yes you can extract more energy from a dam than a mere river, but only at the dam. Ie, the energy is localized in potential energy in the case of the dam.
Fully working metaphor.
How are these heaters used in a garden?
You plant things in the pot.
@@Gardenfundamentals1 What is the importance of heating the pot that a plant is in unless it is used for propagating seeds??
They are used for heat in a garden greenhouse.
A clay pot traps the heat closer to the floor, rather than flying to the ceiling and dispersing. The pot also adds thermal mass, so you can get your hands closer to more heat . I should have watched the video.
Yes, I said from the start they didn't work. One way they can work is that the clay pot acts like a thermal battery. If your sleeping in a tent on a cold night. Heat a pot up with your candle light. Then put the pot in your sleeping bag with you.
You could just stick a rock by your campfire and not have to worry about bringing a planter with you when you go camping.
@@shawnsg Yes, and you can do the hot water bottle trick to.
It "works" because the clay pots absorb and distribute the heat over a wider surface area that can warm hands and other body parts as opposed to the heat flowing freely up a narrow path straight to the ceiling, where it is of no use. The first law of thermodynamics does not explain why it works, but it certainly works nonetheless. Try using it to warm cold body parts in a tent outside on a freezing cold night and you will see it "works."
The thing about clay pot heaters, is the open flame is covered, the pot also acts as a heat regulator..., which is more of a personal heater ... As far as a room heater No .... A candle is a candle ...it takes energy to make energy......
I don't know anything about physics but I do know something about common sense. The reason you layer your clothes is the more layering, the more spreading out of the heat, the more you feel warm. That's actually how they make heaters is the heat goes through all the different layers making it much hotter which means more hear is seemingly created because of all the heat layers. I think this would be way more ideal with layers of the pots and then maybe some type of small fans to move the heat out???
Its a guy that did a control study on in loaf ....the temperature went up in the room.
There is the possibility that one of the methods produces more total heat. And that is because the combustion efficiency can be affected by the altering of the air flow around the wick.
Finally the truth. Thank you for sharing. I wish there were more people willing to spread the truth.
He makes it sound like "No need to test that, for hundreds of years this rule says it doesn't work so it doesn't". Well that is dumb.
Having his own little set up totally different then anybody else's for a demonstration is off as well. You don't alter there technique and then claim it doesn't work without ever trying it. SMH. I won't be waisting anymore time on his videos. His way of thinking is how Drs kept using dirty hands and killing people for over 100 years after one Dr proved washing hands saves lives.
Geez, you don’t use these to heat your house. Use them to survive.
4:03 First law of thermodynamics. Energy in closed system is fixed, but...
to energy there's no closed systems.
For a clay pot heater it's pretty important not to have a hole at the top as its primary function is to not let the heat escape towards the ceiling.
Friends, there are at least two reasons why the clay pot makes you feel warmer, even though the candle puts out the same amount of energy. #1 The candle puts out energy as light and heat. The clay pot may convert more of the light energy to heat, making you feel warmer. #2 The bare candle lets the heat quickly rise to the ceiling, which might be badly insulated and lose heat to the exterior. Thus, a clay pot heater will produce heat closer to a person and make them feel warmer. This might even be more true in a greenhouse where we care about warming the plants and soul rather than the air.
👍👍👍
Dilution. It's like a single drop of food coloring dropped in a cup of water versus a full bathtub of water The smaller cup will be noticeably more concentrated and darker than the water in the bathtub.
You cant create energy, but you can retain it and let it build up...
Thermal underwear and a good sleeping bag will work much better. If you put your head inside your jacket and light a lighter for a few seconds it gets quite warm too.
They do work- as with most experiments, the devil is in the details. One bitterly cold April night I gave it a try to heat my new 6 x12 ft. polycarb greenhouse. I’m happy to share my data and setup with anyone who wants to try it. Depending on the candles, I get about 5-15 degrees of benefit. (By morning, my baseline thermal mass heating typically only adds about 5 deg. over outdoor temps, sometimes none if it's been cloudy).
It’s not a question of more heat- obviously it doesn’t do that, it’s a question of its distribution.
The pot shown in the video is not adequate, however. I have a tower of successively smaller pots that stack about 18” inches high. Also, ordinary candles are not great. If I use a decorative 3 wick candle, I might get 5 degrees. If I use a small can of Crisco and 4 candles, I can get up to 15 degrees, both will burn for several nights- though sometimes the candles go out. Although it’s easy to set up once you have the kit, I’m switching to electric once the greenhouse is wired.
There is simply no way a flower pot increased the temperature by 5-15 degrees.
It appears that you have a bad test. You must also test the candles without the pot for an accurate assessment.
What was interesting is I could tell when one of the candles went out, the temp would drop just a little. It does take a lot of firepower to work.
He makes it sound like "No need to test that, for hundreds of years this rule says it doesn't work so it doesn't". Well that is dumb.
Having his own little set up totally different then anybody else's for a demonstration is off as well. You don't alter there technique and then claim it doesn't work without ever trying it. SMH. I won't be waisting anymore time on his videos. His way of thinking is how Drs kept using dirty hands and killing people for over 100 years after one Dr proved washing hands saves lives.
How you say it doesn’t work but do no test. I wanted to see ur science
Check out the laws of thermodynamics.
I'll just use my kerosene heater thank very much.
I think I will stick with a natural gas heater.
Gold went up while the dollar went up which is very bullish
No, it does NOT 'create more heat' ! What it does is convert some (not all) the convection heat of the candle(s) into RADIANT heat - only 'feels' hotter.
But please speak to your local Fire Department (!!!). They will confirm these concoctions do make a lot of heat when your house/structure burns down !!! THESE THINGS ARE DANGEROUS !!
Anything that defies the laws of physics or Natural Law should be assumed untrue.
It work during WWll and thats a fact to keep the soldiers warms. Look it up.
It is not a closed system...so your point is moot.
"...maybe thermodynamics doesn't apply near a black hole, we can't say for sure without a Peer-Reviewed Journal-Published Whitepaper, but since it's 250 years old, most Scientists 'accept' thermodynamics..." - this is scientism.
Is it? Science is an extension or even a tool of reason. Why isn't it reasonable to rely on the right tool to answer a question? You don't go to a veterinarian for dental work, why would you go to a theologian for a physics question?
@@shawnsg perhaps you misunderstood. Thermodynamics and conservation laws are closer to mathematics results than to empirical results. Empirical breadcrumbs lead to a philosophically ironclad result. It is scientism to genuflect to the epsilon-of-doubt (that could only be resolved by an Official Whitepaper) that thermodynamics might not apply near the speed of light, etc. Arithmetic, and thermodynamics (I needn't repeat myself), of course apply near black holes. It is scientism to make a sacrament of pretending it could be otherwise.
Can't fool Mother Nature!!
If you don't believe this guy, go spend $10 and make a clay pot heater for yourself. Then you be the judge. Oh, yeah, please report your findings.
I’m not a technical expert, nor do I want to be. When I see the question…Do these work… I simply want to click on it in here yes or no and the example of the best one👎
So i guess the millions of people who do this or have in the past are all wrong then???!! . Guess I'll find out for myself eh'''
It works... This gut does not know what he is talking about...
it is BS the candle only has so much energy..
True. But without the pot that energy goes straight up to the ceiling, in the form of heat. With the pot that heat stays lower, where it is needed.
First!
I haven't tried the clay pot idea yet, but the theory is that ceramic conducts heat. That's why they have ceramic heaters you can buy now