Are Bed Slingers Still Viable In 2022?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2022
- Check out Micro Swiss for awesome 3d printer upgrades:
store.micro-swiss.com/
Love the channel? Consider supporting me on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=806627
ModBot Merch Store is now live! Get yours here:
bit.ly/3qhJ8Yl
Join the official ModBotArmy discord server: / discord
In todays video we take a dive into the history of and current state of bedslinger 3d printers. After a comment on a recent video it really got me thinking. What are your thoughts?
247Printing Channel:
/ 247printing
Bed Slingers Before And After Klipper Video:
• How FAST is KLIPPER RE...
Chris Riley Nylon Lock Nut Video:
• Hack Your Prusa! - Pru...
Mendel Launch Video:
• Introduction to Mendel...
Prusa Mender Blog Post:
blog.reprap.org/2010/10/story-...
(´∀｀)♡ As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases:
Buy now on Amazon: amzn.to/2jQAOgV
Subscribe To My 3d Printing Blog! :
Lets Get Social!
Facebook: / dopesoner930
Twitter: / dopesoner930
Instagram: / modbotarmy
Twitch: / dopesoner930
Excellent video, very informative and it's greatly inspiring to think more about the mentioned 3D printer concepts in general!
"i3- / Ender- / Slinger- style" is cheap and it's hard to find any alternatives for that cost effective concept at the moment.
Meanwhile almost all of them print well with good slicer settings - the mechanical basis of the slinger concept seems to be mostly understood by Chinese low budget companies.
Maybe except "secondary" stuff like cable management (looking at the Hurakan there...).
Software, settings and ease of use still seems to be a problem for them though: Optimization is mostly meant to be done by the user...
Concerning this, Prusa does a great job on that dated i3 concept, but as we know this comes at relatively high costs:
Software development, setting optimization and encompassing customer support takes a lot of time/skills/employees and that's not for free!
CoreXY is almost impossible to do at low cost. I find it's a really interesting point of view you gave here concerning print farming:
Using a big bunch of cheap, but well-tuned bed slingers (for mainly PLA / PETG jobs!) might be the better choice in comparison to some fast, but far more expensive CoreXY machines.
Rapid prototyping might be another story though.
As long as there isn't a new or better cheap concept, bed slingers will maintain.
I have to repeat: In my opinion, there is still quite some potential for further (and REAL) improvement on the i3 concepts.
Concerning the mechanical designs, concerning the Software/Slicing and concerning Firmware - it doesn't matter if it's Marlin/Klipper/RepRapFirmware.
And I totally double what you stated: Input Shaping is not the solution for everything, even though it's a big boost at the moment, which is just starting to be commercialized with Klipper.
Thank you VERY MUCH for the shout out - I feel very, very, very honored!
I do not think a bed slinger is in any way, shape or form not viable, the year has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. I can see not thinking a bed-slinger is still viable with the amount of CoreXY motion "type" of printers there are out there, the Ender 5 series comes immediately to mind. But there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a bed-slinger. Until you completely figure out what you want your printer for, there is no sense whatsoever in paying hundreds of dollars for a printer just to figure out if you even want to mess with the hobby/business at all. I bought a Fokoos Odin as a "return" for $99 and sent it to my mother for her birthday. She likes it, but unless you learn how to 3D design, it's not much more than a knickknack maker. There will ALWAYS be a better, faster, stronger version of whatever you buy. Spending top dollar on the bleeding edge of tech is just plain stupid. We used to call it "keeping up with the Joneses". Your just chasing "I have the better toy" and it's stupid unless you know exactly what you plan to use it for and need the speed, which is pretty much the only "improvement" you are hoping for spending $1,000 on a CoreXY machine. You may or may not get better quality and that is going to depend on how fast you try to go. The 4 minute bechy is only a benchy by basic shape, there isn't much "quality" in it. Make a triangle with "speed", "cost" and "quality" on each corner and pick the two that you want (use a ruler), you only get two you can't have all three.
To me the short version is that bedslingers have limitations, but they work just fine and are generally the most cost effective way to make a printer.
The biggest thing I don't like about them is that they are harder to enclose. Not being able to easily print ABS or other materials that require a chamber is a huge disadvantage. When you do enclose them, none of the electronics end up shielded from the chamber heat which will undoubtedtly shorten their lifespan.
When it comes to the switchire in particular, the question for me is why put that amount of money into a bedslinger core xz instead of a more capable motion system. I see the switchwire as a novelty printer, meant for enthusiests who want to build one for fun, not a serious consideration for anyone buying a printer as a practical machine.
I wish people didn't talk like the only options are bedslinger or corexy though, there are other great motion systems like delta and cross-gantry that largely get ignored in these conversations.
As a Switchwire owner, I feel I should comment on this. The machine cost me about the same amount as my Bear MK3S but comes with linear rails and an even beefier frame along with some other creature comforts like LEDs in the case and print head, input shaping, and built in WiFi.
Since my designs are often sized to fit the MK3, I don’t have to think about whether they will fit the Switchwire (or vice versa) if something breaks on either.
I definitely considered a 2.4 or some other larger printer but opted for the smaller switchwire because at the time it was the only LDO kit shipping with a pi and a hotend.
Now, with Bambu Labs shipping at around $1K. It wouldn’t make sense for me to consider a second switchwire.
@@3DBearnicorn Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Wow!
That's really something to think about. Cheers for the hints!
Slingers are still the king of the market even after the years. If resin was a bit cheaper and they had affordable build plate sizes thats all I would use.
Resins good but they aren't as strong as fdm atleast the resin I've used I just recently got an fdm printer after having a resin for about a year or so
I've run into this argument a few times myself. Sure, my first printer was a Voron Trident, and I love how it's more efficient with it's use of space, but I like just how much more open the prospect of the Switchwire is. I've also always wanted a Prusa MK3S, and in the end, for me it's really a case of I just want a nice printer that will sit there, melt filament, and print things. Cost technically plays into things (an LDO Switchwire kit is about $700 CAD cheaper than a 300 cube Trident kit), but part of it is actually... I don't really make full use of the mechanical advantages the CoreXY design has.
What do I mean by that? Well, my Trident is usually printing at 100-125mm/s, and in most cases has acceleration at 3k instead of something more powerful, simply because I prefer it to remain still (it rocked it's original table about several inches during infill). It'll print perfectly fine at 6k accelerations, but it starts getting noisier than I'd like (it vibrates the floor somewhat), and surface finish takes a bit of a hit... So I'd rather just have it run a tad slower, and get things right the first time.
As for whether bed slingers are still viable? Oh yeah, I'd say they very much so are. Steel Warrior Studios has 150 printers running, and they're mostly Neptune 2's, with Neptune 3's being added into the fleet over time. He's commented a few times that in his case, there's no need for anything fancier as those do the job, and are easy to repair, which means he's able to keep his fleet up and printing. And I also agree - even for personal use, I'd rather have four printers instead of one that prints four times faster, because if we assume one failure every couple of plates the loss is minimized on multiple printers.
Great Video, its the cheap bed slinger in the form of the ender3v2 which got me interested, after 6 months of upgrades I ordered the RR vcore3 core XY, loved building and setting it up and the speeds are great when tuned, just built a RR minion for small prints so both bedslingers and core xy will have a place for some time to come, keep up the good work.
I know I'm brand new to 3d printing but my experience with any consumer oriented product is this.... nothing is fully refined before the next big thing is introduced. I love that there is a extremely large support base for "bed slingers" and that there are still refinement processes ongoing throughout many areas of the machines. Personally, I'd love too to see them refined to the point that they are ridiculously easy to use and as common as a toaster lol.
Another comment, 4x the cost does not mean 4x the speed. When item changes are necessary and space is limited, optimizing productivity per area is worth more than the dollar cost equivalent. My printers make $6/hour for me each, if I can bring that to $10, it's early worth 3-4x the cost, especially if it saves me time.
for a print farm, yes.
for a hobby: no.
i bet most of the customers who bought a Bambu Lab X1 as a hobby printer are mostly printing things on the weekend. The other 120+h the printer is off. In that time a much quieter Sovol SV06 easily can achieve the same output for 1/6 of the price. And both printers need some space in the basement.
Been 3d printing for 10 years, gone through many printers - most of them bedslingers. Just recently got my Bambu X1 carbon with AMS. Never looking back. Time is money and this thing saves me so much time compared to any other printer I've ever owned. Not just the speed of the printer, but the AMS saves me lots of time from having to switch filaments between prints. I always hated that about my other printers. Now I can load PLA, PETG, PA-CF and PC all at once and never have to even touch a spool.
Until its mechanics fails !!!! repairing a pseudo open source system that has only one hardware parts source is extremely difficult compared to open systems like Prusa, Creality and other. Their open nature makes it easy to find a hotend provider, or a motor provider. Try to do that with the Bamboolab. The X1 is really nice machine, really I like it, but until it fails!
@@ahmedlazreg6373 It's not difficult. For most of things Bambu very easy to service and parts are cheap. I don't see any advantage in open source printers from servicing standpoint. Why do you need to find some hot end provider when you can get the original thing for $10-15? Original hardened steel nozzle for Prusa costs almost 2 times more than a whole hardened steel hot end for Bambu. Unclogging Bambu hot end is very easy too. Extruder gone bad? $35-45 gets you a new one, or $20 for gear assembly. You can get very cheap generic brass nozzles for those, but I see no point, they are garbage. And you will waste too much time changing them.
@@woopsserg "when you can get the original thing for $10-15?" ... well ... IF you can get it!
What happens if Bambu Lab gets problems like Huawei did landing on some black list in the US not being able to provide parts anymore.
Or what if they dont sell enough printers so that they make a profit! Looking at the price of the Voron LDO Kits ... Bambu Labs needs high sells or their costs are not covered.
An open system basically lives forever ... but there has been plenty 3D printer pioneers who are not here anymore. And their closed system 3 - 4K printers are useless by now because of missing parts.
"Time is money" ... well not for me referring to 3D printing as a hobby which I often only have time for at the evening or weekend.
So instead of printing something fast at the weekend and having the printer standing still most of the time, I can easily let it run slowly during week much more quieter. With Octoprint and a webcam it's also quite easy to take a look at the status if I am not home. So time does not matter for many people whose printer are not really used during the week. There is even printing time left over. But paying only one fourths of the price is definitely a big plus.
@@hassosigbjoernson5738 There are clone hotends with exchangeable nozzle sold already. You have only a little of time to do something with it and you'll waste that little you have. Waiting for a week until you can do something again does not seem good for me. You can print something on weekend, quickly use it somewhere, iterate. Yet you will wait until next week and barely anything will be done.
Another excellent video, I have a brace of ender 3's and they work fine and are a good low cost entry to modding. My favourite printer is my V0.1 though.
I bought my ender 3v2 3 months ago. Built it with the utmost perfection possible.
Has been printing basically all the time with no issues absolutely no mods or even a firmware change.
I think most of the complaints of the ender 3 come from people not taking enough care building it. It has to be perfect to eliminate any mechanical issues (friend needed to build one)
@07:31 As someone who owns both a Prusa i3 MK3S and a Voron 2.4 I can tell you maintaining a Voron 2.4 is a LOT less of a chore than an i3 MK3S due to all of its toolhead cables running from the there to the Board making it a *_ROYAL FUCKIN' PAIN IN THE ASS_* to change even just one thing like a faulty Thermistor as it requires disassembling the entire fuckin' Toolhead *_AND_* X-Carrier causing like _at least_ an hour of downtime and the necessity of hauling the entire printer to a more convenient location where you can actually do the maintenance work constantly turning the printer around as you wrangle the cable mess from the front and the back and the front and the back.
On the Voron you simply pop off the 4 screws holding the Toolhead together, unclip the connectors for the Heater and Thermistor and be on your way to maintain the Hot End somewhere else while the majority of the printer remains wherever it usually resides - 5min tops.
I mean yea... The i3 served me well when it did but man was it also a R.F.P.I.T.A. when it didn't to the point where I just can't recommend it anymore.
❤Outstanding video!! I really think you nailed it. While looking to sell more and more prints myself I went with a Kobra, small affordable and easy to make my money back. I drool over vorons but definitely going to go with Carbon x1 for the fun stuff because I do not have time for a Voron. I would literally have to quit the hobby if all that was available was a Voron… in a few years that might change as my kids get older.
I think your video really reflects that point, very well done!
Finally, usable information that will help me choose my third 3D printer.
Most articles add so much technical data that the usable data becomes obscured in a proliferation of math and mechanical sophistry.
Thanks.
I totally understand the use of bedslingers in the beginner/lower budget market because you cant construct a printer easier or cheaper and ship the 95% assembled. Core xy and deltas will probably be for more experienced people as their second printer.
Im honestly surprised that not many cartesian bedlifters are out there like a ender 5 / sovol sv05 or even cross gantry machines like ultimakers or annex, especially cross gantry since they offer near core xy or even core xy performance while being rather cheap to build, in contrast to an core xy they can use cheaper linear rods without the downside of them (bending under load).
Also an underrated core xy: twotrees sapphire pro, a full metal frame linear rail core xy for under 250 dollars
Nice video. IMHO Bed slingers is horrible slang term. The beds don’t sling any more than the X axis with a heavy direct drive setup does. Stationary bed printers have been around just as long (i.e. Ultimaker). So yes moving bed style printers are still very much viable. They introduce a lot more people to the hobby because of their low price and simplicity and printers under $300 have improved a lot. They also still greatly outsell the core XY. And most people who advance to a core XY still keep their “bed slingers” around. So that proves they’re still very much viable.
Yeah, I feel like I started hearing the term back in 2019 or so. Have referred to them that way since. I don’t mind the term as I do feel it is a very easy way to describe them versus i3 which won’t mean much to a 3D printing beginner. I do believe that if corexy printers are able to come further down in price toward that 300-400 price many would go that route. However with the added aluminum and parts for the motion system I am not convinced it will happen any time soon. As mentioned in the video for myself I am using them as much as any corexy I have here. Some of my most reliable machines in a few instances.
Good video. I think also it might be an attitude issue. I tend to design and print objects that we use in our daily life and the observation comes to mind that "how long would it take to order this part?" Shipping is usually a lot longer than my new Artillery Sidewinder X2 takes to print said item or part (and a lot more expensive). Yes FDM (or for that matter resin) printers are going to be slow even if it's a Voron. It's all a matter of perspective. For example, I've just designed a knock box / tool caddy for our home coffee counter and it's exactly what we want. It's big and It's going to take the X2 two and a half days to print but so what, how long would it take to order a similar knock box from Etsy or for that matter AliExpress even if it existed. My dad used to have a shed at the bottom of the garden and he would spend all weekend fabricating, finishing and fitting a thing for my mum's home. We live in an apartment and the X2 is quiet and beavers away in the corner of our living room producing the things for our life. It's a quiet unobtrusive robot that makes the things we need.
My first printer oddly enough was an Anycubic Linear Kossel Plus. Now I have the X2 the Anycubic is going to get a refurb with a new controller, some 2209s and a fresh Raspberry Pi 4 8GB that I've squirrelled away for its introduction to Mr. Klipper.
Now that I have Vorons (V0 & V2.4), I understand the advantages of coreXY systems but they are not the right printer for everyone as you say. Voron printers are great and the community is one of the best out there but Voron printers are out of reach for many due to cost and skills needed to build one.
Bed slingers are going to continue to be the entry level printers that the majority of new users will buy because there are a lot of decent low cost options available. I think that the future will bring more relatively low cost printers running Klipper to fill the gap. However, Chuck Hellebuyck (CHEP) has proven that cheap printers like the Ender 3 are capable of producing quality prints at reasonable speeds without Klipper so the Marlin machines will still be popular for the foreseeable future.
The prices have really come down. My 1st printer was a monoprice select mini. I upgraded everything on it and learned alot. For small prints it does a better job than some of the bigger printers due to it high z resolution. I actually just got a new printer, the voxelab aquila S2. I took a look at what I paid in 2017 for the MPSM and it was $220! The aquila was about the same price! So they really come down. Like you said adding klipper to these bed slingers really is a game changer. I just got klipper working last weekend, didn't run through all the tuning yet, but just going feom stock fw to klipper, the print quality is noticeably better. Can't wait to see what it will do once i get pressure advance and input shaping tuned!
great video, thanks for talking about this, i only my first 3d printer; it all started a few years ago and because things happen, i was forced to buy a computer instead of a printer, so started to save money again and in 2020 my family surprised me with the printer before i had enough to buy one, they are actually not that hard to use, hardest part is leveling and learn the specific calibration of the printer, but it has been an amazing journey, with it i am generating extra income. looking to get 2-3 additional printers, but budget is too tight for the moment. any advice on a new printer?, i dont mind tinkering with and assembling a kit, but for the love of god, correctly leveling the bed of my ender 3 pro drives me crazy some times, i am currently looking information on a rat rig kit, but not sure about the investment, maybe a delta printer?, i am amazed at the results people are showing with the bamboo labs "carbon x1" and how easy to use they protray it, also intrested in the prusa with MMU ot the "palette from mosaic", any words on the printers i speak of?
thanks for your time and effort in making these videos
Good video. Many folks will only get into 3D printing if the cost is within their budget. I purchased a Creality CR10S in 2018. It has been reliable. I have done several upgrades.
I love the Core XY design, but I would not have been able to justify the price difference when I purchased the CR10S - if there had been Core XY models available.
The Bambu Labs X1 is a really nice machine, but too expensive for me.
I would rather have a bed slinger 3D printer than no 3D printer.
Dave.
A bedslinger is a good starter printer as it is easy to understand and most of all can be made more cheaply than a cube design because you just need less hardware (extrusions, motors, belts, ...). Especially on tiny printers that can stick to a single Z screw and vertical extrusion there isn't much more to remove and still move anything in 3D. That means they allow for a cheap entry into 3d printing and then learning about it...
And then you'll learn what is not ideal about the design. A single Z screw allows the gantry to sag, so you need 2 Z screws if you go wider. The bed being swung back and forth is fine for small printers, but if you want to go large or fast, you need heavy parts like the bed to move as little as possible to avoid high forces causing vibrations (bye bye bed slinger). Some materials need high ambient temperatures, so you need to heat the enclosure, but you do not want your motor to overheat (hello delta and core-xy, both able to move all the motors out of the build volume and keep them statically mounted). And of course some materials hate being shoved into a Bowden tube, so direct drive is wanted, but that means the extruder is now in the heated volume (so water-cooling?). Lots of problems to solve ...
Core-xy printers are not the rage just because they look nice, but because they solve some of those problems. There might be different/better solutions found in the future which then might move us away from core-xy again, but I fear that the drawback giving bed-slingers their name will always hamper them for anything but tiny volumes. Still, they are so delightfully simple that in the entry segment I guess they are very hard to beat in bang-for-the-buck. I just don't understand the purpose of expensive bed-slingers ... If cost is not important, then I feel the choice for a relatively heavy bed that has to move a lot is a bad design decision ...
My bed slinger, Kp3s, maxes out by nozzle flow rate with a .6mm nozzle. It's if I'm building a corexy, I'll need a hot end as expensive as the printer itself.
The way I see it is that for entry level bed slingers make sense. What I don't think makes sense is once you get past the 400ish dollar price point on a second printer to stay with a bed slinger. I still get a lot of use out of my bed slinger, especially for functional parts that don't need to be perfect. Now I do think eventually they will die out but that will be a while as we will need core xy to come down in price a lot more.
is it just me or are all arguments *for bedslingers* "yes they have by far the most issues of any architecture but we have learned how to alleviate them" and the oh, so common /yet utterly circular/ "well they are the most produced therefore the cheapest therefore the most produced"?
one very relevant point: there are more options then corexy and bedslinger, deltas seem to be competitive in terms of cost&quality with bedslingers (and use less superstructure to do so, therefore theoretically cheaper); and gantry style are approaching bedslingers in terms of cost as well, albeit use more material
It's absolutely not just you
Great video, I really like both even though I design my own
I finally started buying parts for Defiant
@@Brunoku awesome!
is there a video on that belt driven z on the ender 3 in the video?
Can you make a video on the exo slide Ender 3 kits
In an ideal world coreXY has benefits, but if you are printing small stuff on a reasonably small printer, and aren't worried about speed, not really necessary given the cost.
What is the modification that has been done do the ender in this video
what is that printer on the bench next to you? What's the deal with the belts running up the sides and over the top???
What are the led lights that flash on your bed heater connection
My prusa mini is losing a lot of its work to my Voron 0.1 now....the only reason I don't replace my Anycubic mega X is that it is klipperised and rewired and works well and I would feel wasteful replacing it with a 300mm^3 corexy right now
They're not the best option out there, but they're certainly not bad. They're a great entry point and a great tool for someone that just needs an occasional part. Their general low cost also makes it more affordable to obtain a few printers and specialize them. They're also not all created equal. Some of the cheap bedslingers are barely functional out of the box. Others I would recommend without a second thought. The race to the bottom is probably a major reason for the poor reputation.
The fast printers really shine when you need to prototype something. you're actively developing something, and the turnaround time matters since you want the feedback of a real part ASAP. For production, fast printing can have drawbacks. Layer adhesion in particular is often not as good as it would be with a slower profile. Even with input shaping there are often adverse effects on the final dimensions of the part. Corner rounding, etc.
I love my voron 2.4 but it's really setup to do just one thing. Print ABS FAST. Printing any other material on it would require some reconfiguration of the hardware.
I can't stand it when people say slinger are slow and heavy, it's patently false. You know what the stock XY gantry and toolhead weigh on a 300mm voron? 1.5kg! The toolhead alone weighs over 1 pound!
For reference, a bed on a prusa mini weighs around 500g and a vminion bed weighs around 700.
Just because the community keeps repeating the same old adages like "bed slingers are slow". Does not mean they're true.
I like the corexy because the enclosure can be smaller than a bed slinger enclosure. The smaller enclosure keeps the heat and the odor in better.
I have had some very weird issues with my raise 3d printer for some time now. Does your patreon have a discord or group that actively talk and want to figure out printing issues ? I am very frustrated at this point and need a community that could help out.
What's the ender 5 s1 considered corexy or bedslinger
No comparison to delta printers like flsun?
A good delta seems like a better choice than a bed slinger. Something like FL sun speed racer or V400 seems like newer technology without the bed flying back and forth. Still open and easy to assemble and service.
Isn't a frame style printer like the Ender 5+ a good middle ground with many of the advantages of both? Lightweight motion system, but without the complexity of a full core-xy. Not as fast, but more capable them slinging the bed.
When talking about farm, you don't consider that space is not free. If you need 3x more space to print the same amount, it can become very expensive for larger farms.
Great info BUT lets talk E3 Exoslide!
What about Delta Printers?
And I am still after all those years tempting to buy a delta, just because they look cool.
My Ender 3 pro and E3 v2 which is new are GREAT and if I want something other than the standard ender experience, I fire up my Delta FLSUN Q5 ya baby. I have to admit, I never heard the phrase "bed slinger" until this video. Thanks again for the education my brother from another mother :-0
Every paradigm shift is met with resistance.
As a beginner myself, I tried a different way than the recommended. My first printer was a BLV MGN Cube (a coreXY) with a BoM instead of a kit. It was a nightmare to assemble (it still lies disassembled in my garage to this day).
Still convinced that a bedslinger is a waste of money from my research online. I decided to empty my wallet and buy a Voron 2.4 already assembled. After 4 magnetic probes melted, I decided to finally get an Ender 3 V2.
That's the only printer that's is working. I got Klipper running in my Ender 3. And with Klipper, I felt confident to install Klicky in my Voron.
Having the tutorials and guides for my first coreXY printer as available as the tutorials and guides from my Ender 3V2, I'm pretty sure that I would have a better an experience overall.
Hell, I'll buy that 2.4 off you
I would have loved to buy a Prusa MK3S+, however I unfortunately do not have $1400 laying around ($1200 for used), so I had to settle for the $350 Ender 3 V2 Neo
I'm a bit confused about the comment regarding coreXY being more difficult to assemble/maintain/tune. My first printer was a coreXY, and it was plug and play. My second printer was a bed slinger, and that thing took an hour to assemble. Maintenance seems to me to be more down to how readily accessible spare parts are, and tuning seems more like a software issue than anything else.
On that note, I had a hellish time before getting the bed slinger to work properly (several months of fiddling, ending up with buying a raspberry pi and running Klipper), so in my case going with that coreXY as my first printer was definitely the right choice. But that's really almost entirely down to the fact that the coreXY had software developed by people who tried to make the user experience decent, as well as an actual English speaking support that comprehended questions and answered intelligently. If the bed slinger had been my first experience, it might have put me off 3D printing altogether. Not only was the firmware obtuse and buggy (which I likely would not even have realized if it had been my first printer), the support was utterly useless. I mean to the point of offering generic suggestions that were not only irrelevant to the problem, but that were even for entirely different printers.
For beginners, I think the advice should really be: don't cheap out. Check out reviews and find a printer that's fully decked out with ABL and such, and that's getting good comments specifically regarding the ease of setup and use. If a search comes up with videos like "these are my favorite 27 modifications" for the printer, don't even think about it. That's for your second or third purchase.
For small parts (which is mostly what I use them for) there is nothing wrong with them. They are cheaper to build than most core XY type., which are more suitable for large, tall objects (which tend to be "works of art" rather than functional parts). Besides their speed disadvantage, 'bed slingers' do take up about twice the desk footprint space than a core xy (or similar upright) type printer. I'm not sure if the core xy is a better design than a discrete xy upright design, though a faster processor with more program space is required for the Core xy vs the discrete XY design. Delta printers are probably the fastest type, but they require TWICE the height of either a bed slinger or an upright XY design for the same build area, and need even faster processors to convert the gcode to the internal delta movements. Also the circular bed usually isn't the most effective layout for many prints.
Finally, I think a print farm for making parts of a product that you are selling is a poor idea as it is doesn't scale up well with volume. Once you pass a certain sales volume (which probably happens quite quickly if you are successful), injection molding becomes the better choice over 3D printing. If you do your own injection molding in house at a decent volume, the required factory floor space could be 1/10 (or less) the size of a print farm handling the same volume. I wouldn't be surprised if both Prusa and Lolesbot switch from 3D printed parts to injection molding very soon in the future.
Bed slingers are adequate for small printers where the mass of the bed plus 50% of the part (on average), is almost competitive with the mass of a core xy gantry, hot end, and possibly a direct-drive extruder.
The biggest advantage in 2022 for "bed slingers" is the fact that they can easily fold in half for shipping. For example Creality can ship and nearly fully assembled Ender 3 in a box half the size of more square printers like Ender 5.
CoreXY printers and have not hit the low commodity price of prusa style i3 have enjoyed at scale. Even when they do I would expect their near bottom price to be around $300 compaired to an i3's ~$200. Simple due to the extra material required by the actual printer along with additional packing material and most importantly extra shipping cost.
Speed doesn't mater to me as an enthusiast. I have obsoletely ZERO problem with hitting print, and coming back in a day or two to collect my model. However quality does. And even with the latest printers, the ONLY way to ensure a quality print is to slow it down. That's why all of my printers are still cartesian style. Now as mentioned in the video, if someone were to say "here have this Bamboo x1" i wouldn't exactly turn them down! lol.
I got a half working Neptune 3 from a friend who was frustrated with all the issues he had with the printer after having it for 2 months, and while the first 2 weeks of troubleshooting was agonizing, it did teach me a lot about how 3d printers work, and i have a better understanding of the whole system now.
I have a Ghost reborn (corexy) and a few "Bed Slingers" by anycubic and I wouldn't say that corexy is that much faster than the Vyper to be honest! not to mention the simplicity
Seems a bed slinger could have problem with large parts. Inertial, and air friction. Air friction may create undesired air turbulence, impacting printing PC, TPU, and other filaments that do not need part cooling.
Bedslingers scale better per unit cost especially when you are using v wheels.
Want to make a bigger version of an existing bed slinger? Just make the 9 pieces of 2020 a little longer and the bed a little bigger. Now, corexy? You need lengthen all 6 or 7 linear rails, as well as longer frame members but because corexy are usually cubes there are almost twice as many members as a bedslinger. The belt runs on a coreXY are also much longer and more complicated so belts costs are almost doubled because of the length alone but because the print quality of a coreXY is heavily dependent on belt stiffness belt quality much more critical. So if genuine gates belts are required, cost goes up even more.
Eu recomendo (por acreditar nos videos existentes no youtube, e na fabricante/marca), SOVOL SV6 (parece estar equivalente ao Prusa MK3++), alem de ser mais barato e auto-alinhamento! 🇧🇷✌️
7:15 i feel like 4 cheap enders have a higher chance to fail than one bambu or prusa.
If you are building a print farm to manufacture something (say 3D printers?), would you use a bunch of core xy's or bed slingers? Well consider Lulzbot and Prusa. Both of them use lots of 3D printed parts in their printers, and they 'eat their own dog food' when it comes to their print farms. With a room full of open frame 3D printers in the farm, they don't need a 3D printed chamber. The entire room is probably insulated and kept at 60-80C, with the air being recirculated through carbon filters. Needless to say that people keep out of the print room except to load filament and remove prints. I bet they also wear hazmat suits (assuming they are printing ABS). Prusa was also talking about converting their print farm to use Prusa minis, as even these printers are large enough to print any of the parts used in their printers.
I love my ender 3s and my corexys. I wouldnt trade any of those for all corexys or bedslingers. As you said all have their pros and cons, I use the enders if I need a quick print and the corexy wich has bigger bed for anything that needs more volume
if u need more speed u use the e3 rather than the corexy? huh? that's odd buddy.
@@lancereyesromero7811 i meant a small quick print. I use the corexy for big volume prints since it has a 400x400x450 printing volume.
What a selfish man. You need to share your printers.
for me, i find myself being limited more by volumetric speed rather than actual kinematic speed
this is probably untrue for people that do more miniature or is doing something more precise than what i do
but i'd say considering how weak most cheap to mid tiers hotends are, there is rarely a need to achieve faster speed at that price range
I feel that the basic bedslinger motion system has no advantages and many disadvantages; one needn't use CoreXY to get a simple X-Y-Z motion system where the bed moves in Z and the print head in X/Y. Witness the Ender-5 or any CNC router.
I agree with many of your points about cost and proven reliability, but really, those are choices independent of the bedslinger design. It's just that the printers that have been around for a while, with open source designs and thus lots of copies pulling costs down, happen to have been bedslingers. So there is still a place for those established printers, but I feel like new printer designs using bedslingers is like designing a new passenger airliner as a biplane.
Also, on the subject of "recommendations for first printer" - these days, there is a very fundamental question that has to be asked before making any suggestion: is the person interested in building and tinkering and modifying the printer as a hobby, or do they just want a plug-and-play device that they can use to turn their CAD designs into physical objects? Your argument about the more accessible engineering in a bedslinger only matters to the first group. The second group doesn't really give a rat's ass about how the motion system works, and are far more interested in ease-of-use and aftermarket support, which means something like a Bambu X1 or a Prusa MkIII with a Revo nozzle. Once again, the motion system is irrelevant to their needs; they aren't interested in trying to fix it themselves anyway, and so the recommendation needs to be for a printer that they won't *have* to fix. (In my opinion, the best suggestion for the "I just want it to work" group is still the Prusa MkIII, with the Revo nozzle to eliminate all the faffing around with trying to get nozzle/heater block/heat break seated correctly. For someone willing to take a little long-term risk for short-term gain, the X1 is easier to use (I have one and love it) but we've yet to see what their long-term sustainability will look like.)
No one is doing the analysis of the belt strength/stretch/tension needed as core xy printers gain in size. It seems like a core xy going over 300x300mm bed becomes impossible with current belt materials and extrusion building. I think a Cartesian design with a dropping bed or raising gantry is the better solution, and preferably with a ball-screw motion than belts.
So - is there a reason why there was not a single word on deltas? Not good enough?
kind of... meandering. it's a matter of size. for small prints, bed slingers are fine and have their place. vast majority of my prints, even today, would still fit on a Printrbot Play (100x100).
btw continuous bed printers are... bed slingers.
What mod is on that Ender 3 in the background?
It is Exoslide motion system. Looks very interesting and should be potentialy doable with on your own.
The only use case where I'd say bed slingers are completely obsolete are in large bed printers. Having to move a bed that's 300 x 300 mm or even larger that much is really just asking for trouble so coreXY is the way to go there.
Except you can buy 500mm x 500mm bed slingers, but the voron message board has threads saying don’t expect to scale the printer that big. The Tronxy 400mm size get bad reviews due to belt tension issues.
Running 6 Prusa bed slingers now , Just ordered a Flsun V400 Delta printer now , pretty sure 1 x V400 can keep up with 2 Prusa MK3S+ , but time will tell 🙂
After ModBot's review of the Flsun V400 last month. I am thinking of getting one myself instead of a Prusa. Hope you post some comments about your experience with the V400.
Make that 4 prusass instead of 2. Dont know the stock speed profile for the prusa, but the stock profile of a v400 is something like 130/200/400 (outer/inner/infill) and 8k accel instead of 1200 for x and 800 for y
@@kilianlindlbauer8277 Not quite , I print 60% PETG - 20% ASA - 20%TPU so I do not think numbers will be that impressive in my instance.
@@heinebach3674 asa can be even printed faster than pla, less cooling as well as less melting power is required, asa is about 20%lighter than pla with about the same thermal capacity per mass.
Dont know about tpu, i haven't printed tpu with a bmg gear based extruder yet, but with a lgx lite. To sum it up: it simply doesn't care if tpu is loaded or not, although i haven't gone faster than 180mm/s with 85a shore hardness.
Petg generally has less flow rate than other materials, for the same reason abs and asa can be printed faster, but instead of being lighter its the heaviest filament available. Also i have printed petg at 250mm/s, but i dont have that much experience with petg, since i dont really have a use case. Decoratice and for structural indoor items i use pla, for everything else asa, mostly prusament or formfutura asa
All my bed slingers (build around 2014) have found their last rest in a box. Once I will salvage them and make something new out of the steppers etc.. Bed slingers are ok if used for s small format up to 240 x 240. Larger format bed slingers do cause problems for me, since it is getting more and more difficult to have them leveled properly due to their large size and the wobble around the Y axis . Core XY does not have that problem. Also bed slingers have a limited max speed due to the moving mass. Core XY and Delta are way faster. I currently run 5 deltas from FLSUN but my next printer will be a Corey XY like the Voron 2.4. That is the way to go. Bed slingers are obsolete, out-dated. Bury them!
Mesh bed leveling doesn't solve the problem of bad beds. It just lets bad manufacturers continue shipping bad beds without new customers screaming at them that all their prints fail. The prints produced with mesh leveling will never have accurate dimensions.
A note about the point in the video about farms I feel, is this: Many farms use prusas. Assembled prusas are more expensive than Bambulab X1Cs.
Prusas lack the auto calibration malarky that would make less work for upkeep *and* the ability to use high speed. Of course there is much more nuance to be had and that's just the tip of the iceberg, but in essence, I think having a printer that requires less maintenance and gets consistent parts is important enough that for many print farms, the actual cost of the printer isn't the real limiting factor but instead its the reliability given that they simply run out of space to put more printers (which the space efficiency of core xy helps with) or human power to man them. I think it really boils down to the idea that businesses want the use of human time to be efficient because its expensive.
Back to the point of the video, I think that any print farm where a mk3s is applicable is one where even if not the X1C specifically there _should_ be some core xy printer doing work there as even if you slow the corexy down for reliability, it'll still print significantly faster.
I expect that the bambu will replace a lot of prusas in print farms. Every other corexy is a kit that requires too much human labor to assemble and maintain for them to make sense for farms. The Bambu is the only truly turnkey solution that could potentially replace prusas for farms.
Farmers will likely be hesitant to switch to bambu until they are proven both reliable and servicable, but once that confidence is gained prusa is going to have a hard time keeping up in this regard.
I've been told that Prusa also has excellent 24/7 customer service, which to many businesses is much more important than having the "best machine" without that service. Bambu will have to match this as well.
@@caramelzappa A good question to ask is what is 247 service good for?
Is it just help fixing issues? Because I would imagine that dedicated printer techs wouldnt have a big need for this.
Is it for spare parts? I dont know any business that wouldnt keep a stack of spare parts.
Is it to have someone to talk to while going through a frustrating experience? They can talk amongst themselves.
What Im trying to say, is I feel the support matters most for businesses that only have a few printers where the printers are too expensive to have spares. I think this printer at 1000 bucks is cheap enough that businesses can just buy an entire spare printer or have parts.
If a Bambu printer for instance saves them time due to the reliability of prints with the auto z offset/first layer checks etc and prints 2x or more faster than a prusa for the same or better quality, and allows for more in the same space, does 247 support matter?
Anyhow I do agree, I think Bambu is about to eat lunch, though Ive seen a lot of weird backlash from people who dont even have the printers who seem to hate the idea that now a printer thats better than a voron is available to the general public affordably.
Maybe its prusa diehards who feel invalidated. Maybe its people who are (reasonably) afraid of the always connected nature of the printer (though they can disconnect it). Maybe its people who dont like the proprietary firmware.
Either way I think ultimately people wont be able to deny the speed and convenience and at bare minimum I think 3d printing is going to advance as a result of this printer.
It's like when military changed from bolt action rifles to select fire assault rifles. They're better? Yes but I bet you wouldn't want to get shot by a bolt action because even if they're obsolete they still can kill just fine.
It's as simple as this: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. There's plenty of room for multiple options with different pros and cons at different price points.
I think deltas are going to replace core XYs while bed slingers are going to stay relevant in low-end budget bracket.
I think that while the bed slinger isnt somehow completely worthless or anything like that, it's clearly a kinematic system that only has one significant benefit: Cheaping out on cost.
While it can be a valid tradeoff if you dont at all care about speed or space efficiency, I just think people actually care about space efficiency. I truly believe that the average printer could be a core xy or hbot, or even whatever the heck the hodgepodge the ender 5 is and the price of the printer would only increase slightly.
To me the space efficiency just means that the only real argument is over maybe 40 bucks more of extrusion and rail components which to me is not really worth it. that is to say, I get it from a penny pinching, lowest common denominator point of view, but core xy has some great benefits outside of speed too and I think those matter to people.
"the price of the printer would only increase slightly. "
A fully framed printer at minimum doubles extrusion cost compared to a bedslinger, more so on a canteliever bedslinger. Motion system requires extra rods/rails/threaded rods/v-wheel carriages for both Y and Z.
I would suggest you look at the BOM of a bedslinger like the prusa or ender 3, and add the frame and motion parts needed to upgrade it to a full frame printer, and see if you feel like it's only a slight price increase.
@@caramelzappa "A fully framed printer at minimum doubles extrusion cost compared to a bedslinger"
Incorrect. Not only because you can have designs like the Ender 7 with less extrusion than you imagine, or designs like the positron with _less_ parts than a usual bed slinger, but because we already have full frame printers such as ender 5s that exist that have all the frame components necessary for a core xy printer that are opnly slightly more expensive than their similarly sized bed slinging counterparts.
I didn't make this claim ignorantly is what Im trying to say.
BeardBot
Enclosed, heated, core XY or get out! Cause CF-Nylon! And CF-PC
mean Man: You sound like an Apple man. " If it ain't Apple it ain't worth a damn".
I print PC+CF on a bed slinger.
@@edcbabc do you use any type of enclosure? And do you use a product the creeps under stress? I can’t recall the brand but there’s an open air “easy” to print CF nylon that creeps under load at normal temperatures soooo it’s not very useful for mechanical applications.
@@meanman6992 No, but the stuff I use isn't pure polycarbonate, it's Priline polycarbonate + CF. What it's blended with they don't say, but it prints a lot cooler than pure PC. I was going to use pure PC but tried this first and never got around to the other. I went for PC for strength, rightly or wrongly. Never noticed it creep under stress warmed up or not. It's temperature resistance is at least as good as PETG, probably a lot more so as bed temperature needs to be a lot higher. I think (never tried it) nylon is a lot more awkward both for warping and also water absorption.
I was never into super fast printers because most of the time the prints are garbage. It takes a lot of time and investment just to make them print with good quality. And to be honest, the print times aren't that much significant. If I wanted to print fast, I simply have multiple printers printing different parts of the project at the same time and then glue them together afterwards.
And for a tinkerer and hobbiest, an $800+ Core XY printer with a 300x300x300mm print volume is not something we can justify, when we can buy a $300 Ender 3 Max.
The point with the accsesibility and newbie friendlyness is certainly a thing but in prettymuch any other category bedslingers are just not up there anymore. I personally will never get a bedslinger again, i really like the small footprint and how easy you can enclose core xy´s. And then there are many other things like how the smaller enclosure can be heated up easier beause there just isn´t the volume like in an enclosure of a bedslinger of simlilar size. Placing things like purgebuckets, nozzle brushes and so on is also pretty easy on a fixed bed printer, it is to a certain degree still possible on bedslinger too tho. Or the smaller things, i have an enclosed snapmaker 2 A350 and everytime i want to do stuff on the print head like nozzle changes, i have to reach all the way into the enclosure to get to it. With a core xy i just move the printhead all the way to the front and have easy acess to it, its just more convenient. All these things are reasons for me personally, to never get a bedslinger again. The cartesian motion system is totally fine in my opinion, for example in an Ender 5 style, wich is similar to a Core xy but the Bedslinger.... nah, those days are over for me
Why not a delta printer it has no moving bed at all its just a fixed bed and as far as putting it together I would think the delta would beat a cor x y hands down so how come you didn't even mention that
It's like asking why people continue to use combustion cars, when electric ones exist. The answer is simple, the price.
I was wondering if the person who posted that question could tell me where I can find a Core XY for $400 that prints 250x250x250, because I know he won't. And that's where the BedSlingers come in to give us something affordable and capable.
It is like a Ferrari. A better and faster car. But if your objective is going from point A to point B, the Ferrari and any other car will. Maybe slower, maybe a harsher ride, but both will work.
I do simple parts for me, from a threaded tube to some figurines and things like that. More speed would be great, but I get something respectable with my BedSlinger and I print with the materials I want (I am in the same room, so ABS is a no go).
If you can afford a Core XY (I can) and really need the speed and precision, maybe is your best choice. They are the best type of FDM 3D printer you can get for reliability and quality, but you gotta pay.
Niko Tesla would have picked the bed slingers because he had out of the box tastes.
"Why would anyone get a bed sllinger?"
Why not? They work. Why would anyone ask such a silly question in 2022?
There's nothing wrong with bed slingers apart from paying for some of them 800 bucks in 2022...
Bed slingers are more accessible than CoreXY printers and they are still a good choice for beginners.
I won’t go back to them (okay, I might gather the money for a Prusa MK3S+) but they are still a good choice for beginners for low cost (except Prusas of course LOL).
Note that I still think a Prusa bedslinger might be better than my current coreXY.
It’s noteworthy that I recently got a LD-006h resin printer so I sort of think twice about upgrading my filament printers, holding up my Voron 2.4 350 project indefinetely.
If you're considering a bedslinger, don't waste 2-3x the cost on a Prusa, pick up a CR6 SE instead. I picked that one up first and then used a Prusa for awhile and it's simply nonsense to buy a Prusa for FDM at this point, I'm guessing they've simply abandoned that world at this point
the bambu x1 is better than the prusa in every single way, while being the same price.
@@StormBurnX Then Why a MK3 clone is still expensive than a CR6?
@@morbus5726 yup, but their Kickstarter was never available to Brazil. I wanted to get a Bambulab but I simply couldn’t . They didn’t ship it here.
The only thing I don’t like about their printer is the proprietary hotend design which seems like a hassle to change nozzles. Currently I grown sort of a fan of the Revo (yes, I know it’s proprietary but fits into basically any printer, but the bambulabs is not one of them)
@@StormBurnX nah, I had my share of Creality bedslingers (my first printer was an Ender 3 V2). I still think they are great for beginners to learn how to operate and maintain printers (and as resin printers are pretty much the same apart from LCD specs I chose the Ld006 for cost-benefit) I still don’t think a Creality bedslinger is worth for more advanced users who just went through the learning curve and now just want to print with no hassles. There are other options in the market though. That new Biqu with Klipper from factory looks rather promising for USD300, but I would rather want a bigger print area instead.
Currently I run a “local branded” (Sethi3D) CoreXY with 240x240x240 print volume. I just found out it runs on a BTT SKR Mini 1.1 (with a BTT TFT with rotary button removed as its
Control screen). I am about to get the Marlin config files from them (it took some convincing LOL) so I can filter out the “proprietary” (I mean as in “specific configurations”) stuff in the firmware and I might try upgrading it to a SKR Mini e3v3 with TMC2209 for the sensorless homing. To be honest the only reason I just didn’t do it by myself is because I need to find out how the z probe (which uses some proprietary electronics) is set up in the firmware.
But in what come to bedslinger, the cool thing about the Prusas is the quality of the components. It just works (I’ve seen a farm of them in person recently). Of course, you could get a Creality printer and replace everything but it would end up costing more.
Big bed slingers are a terrible idea. Smaller ones, like the pursa mini, are ok. I have a 500mm^3 ratrig vcore 3 that can do 500mm/s at 20k accel. If it was a bed slinger with that same build area, I would be lucky to hit 50mm/s at 300 accel.
what is bed slinger?
its when the bed moves on the y axis
Bed slingers aren't really that bad, but Core XY has advantages that can't be denied if you actually care about speed and accuracy. Bed flingers with linear rails/rods, like the Prusas, are better than the (typically garbage tier) Chinese V-wheel i3 designs. V-wheels really need to die a horrible death. To your point about print speed: I want to crank out parts as fast as possible. I hate waiting for prints. Time is something I can never get back.
I spy a hurakan 🤣
I have a few ender 3’s running Klipper that are way more capable than I thought possible when I bought my first one. 120mm/s and 3k accel reliably. Redundancy is nice to have and it’s attainable at $200 each.
Adding Klipper turned mine into a whole new machine. Amazeballs.
Probably not with the default hotend, right?
You say 200 dollars each, but.... its not 200 dollars is it. (I say this as someone who has done a similar conversion to their massive bed slinger).
To me that's the problem with the cheapest of cheap bed slingers. Sure they are cheap upfront, but then you need hours of work to setup klipper, a bed probe, accelerometers etc, and at that point you not only have a time cost but the cost of the extra parts.
@Beef Ingot That's fair, I'm leaving out $100-$125 in upgrades per printer. I can't agree about the time cost though, unless you're comparing to the X1 Carbon. The DIY coreXY options are going to take considerably longer to get built and tuned properly, especially for a person that would be looking for a recommendation (probably closer to a beginner). The available tutorials for Ender upgrades are just easier to follow because of the audience they are meant for.
You're probably right though, a slightly higher end bed slinger would be better out of the box. That new Sovol that Nero is playing with looks promising. I just like the cheapest ones myself because I like choosing my own hotend/extruder/probe/build surface/etc.
@@kloakovalimonada True, $200 is the cost of the stock printer. I spent maybe $125/printer over that, and that's only because I bought everything on sale.
Fast printing saves energy
There really should be more Ender 5 Style printers. Simple as Bedslingers without their mayor disadvantages or the complexity of core XY. Definitely suitable as a beginner machine. Btw it’s a real advantage to be able to stack things or other printers on top of a framed/enclosed machines. Another loss of space for most bedslingers.
Agree, but ender 5 style with linear rails
The thing is, _are_ core xy printers actually complicated, or is this just the perspective of people who see the belt paths and get confused when in reality, that doesnt add complexity for the end user as they need to do the same things as any other printer?
I think this complexity only exists for the designer
@@BeefIngot I like not to worry about belt tension, alligned pulleys, alligned frame, etc and since I only print slow functional parts I dont need super fast printing (I dont need a part cooling fan actually)
@@Marcos-tj8nk you have to worry about any of those just as much with a typical cartesian. You only worry more with a core xy if you want to print fast.
@@BeefIngot That's what I said. In a print farm you have many printers and you want them to be reliable, not neccesary fast. Obviously the core xy is a superior design but I have no reference of printing farmers using them 24/7 with success, maybe there are but for now, I prefer many cartesian printers for day job and one or two core xy (I dont have any yet but I'm planing to buy a prusa XL or a bambulab) for big or heavy printings.
Viable yes. But I’d rather have a stationary bed myself.
Another con of bedslingers it that you're limited by the mass of what you can print... usually it's not a big issue unless you're printing bigger things, but the momentum/inertia of moving a large print around on a bed can be bad for overall print quality, and could cause motor skips. Personally I've never run into this issue before, but it could happen.
Realistically only an issue at high speeds tbh
@@StormBurnX true, especially since kinetic energy increases exponentially
@@sammy_1_1 Kinetic energy increases faster than linear, but not exponential. Kinetic energy is proportional to square of velocity E = mv^2. An exponential function would have velocity in the exponent.
I said I would never own another bed slinger until the V-Minion came out, and made me realize I was being a snob.
They still have their place. Sure CoreXY is closer to the ideal, but perfect is the enemy of good. A good bed slinger should not be dismissed.
scara printer? polar printer? scream and run away.
Polar makes some sense from continuous manufacturing POV as you by definition have a segmented work area. You can sequentially print parts and remove them at your convenience without stopping the machine. Though performance envelope is likely PITA without industrial grade controller.
@@tymoteuszkazubski2755 you are confusing polar with scara. belt printers are 100,000x superior to scara for your continuous manufacturing scenario.
@@TMS5100 I was thinking about different polar layout with rotating gantry instead of the table.
@@tymoteuszkazubski2755 conveyor belt 3dprinter would be far superior in every way to any polar. eg creality cr30.
This is plainly wrong. The concepts for 3 axis machine designs are all more than a 100 years old now. They all have their pros and cons. I wonder why the core xy designs are so hyped right now, nobody seems to see the basic flaw in the design: the x-axis carriage is sitting on top of the y-axis. That basically means that the two fast moving axis can never be the same weight, what would be the start for an "ideal" design. With a bedslinger, you can actually achieve that goal with a small and light bed (thats probably why the ender 2/Kingroon KP3s/RatRig Minion ect... work so well). Apart from that, there are two options out there for an "ideal" design. One of them obviously is the delta printer. The other one is a cartesian Ultimaker style machine.
Can you explain why being stacked would make their weight uneven? I weight the same on the scale up the stairs and down in the basement, so I am confused. I'm also not sure how the weight of the two belt paths with poorly effect the print, especially since the motion system has no x and y motion system, but two motors that work together to effect x and y in tandum.
@@caramelzappa He's saying that the mass moved in the X direction is necessarily less than the mass moved in the Y direction (which includes the printhead X trolley), and consequently performance is different in X compared to Y direction. It's not clear to me that this is an important characteristics, and in any case _could_ be compensated by Klipper.
@@Graham_Wideman yeah sorry, my comment was probably a bit harsh and in real life corexy systems work fantastically well. I´m only getting tired of hearing that "bedslingers have a heavy moving bed" argument over and over again. The bedslinger style is an excellent choice for small printers, where you can get the weight of both fast moving axis down to a minimum. With increased bed sizes the advantage shifts towards systems that will move the bed in z. It would be interesting to see a comparison between equally built machines, like a klipperized bedslinger with a stiff cubic frame, linear rails and a light bed vs an equal spec corexy printer. I don´t think you would see much of performance difference between the two???
@@AB-eg3ei I don't disagree. I think I favor CoreXY or other designs with the hot end moving in X and Y because it then allows the bed to be heavier with little penalty -- for example making it easier to get it flat, or allowing adding various surfaces and so on without having to re-tune. But it's not necessarily a hand-down winner for all situations.