"BED SLINGER 3D PRINTERS ARE DEAD" True or False?
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👉🏻 In this video I am trying to determine if bed slingers are dead and if CoreXY is the only future for a 3d printer design. I will cover aspects like price, the main advantages, and show some print comparisons.
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🕗 TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - What we do to determine the truth!
00:53 - Diving the rabbit hole...
08:05 - Your thoughts about it?
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#3dprinting #corexy #bedslinger - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
As someone designing a corexy printer, my klipperized Ender 3 printing at 6k mm/s² sometimes makes me wonder why I'm even doing it but it's still a cool project
I liked the video and detailed cost presentation.
DIY corexy here. I like corexy better than my bedslinger (Ender3) because 1. it is enclosed 2. I rarely need to level the bed ( dont have ABL) 3. It uses less space on my desk. 4. The bed heater uses less power due to the enclosure keeping the heat contained.
The one thing I don't like is the corexy has a longer bowden tube.
I used the Ender3 bed on the corexy. I mostly use ABS and PETG and a little PLA.
You forgot shipping costs. Bed slingers are easier to ship partially assembled, but "Cube" printers need more packing space, and are generally less efficient visa vi desk area vs print area (which again means a bigger box to ship). More linear rails also means more weight.
I would agree as you can more compactly ship bed slingers, but I am not sure about size of machine vs print area because the moving bed needs a lot of space.
I totaly agree with you.
Bedslingers just work.
In low temp. Printing they are effective and print Great for the price. Even adding Clipper and more, still makes it a great workhourse, with good speed. SV07 is a strong combo, that still make a good speed/quality.
Great video, and a good Topics.
Thanks for sharing your input with All of us 👍😃
I got SV07 Plus -- Received a piece of S**T unit. Must've been QC failure and someone just swapped serials / boxes and took home the working one. It keeps shocking the user (so no grounding!), and the bed cannot be leveled at all. Just wait 15minutes and it's off again. Other Z screw seems to also be constantly lowering since Z tilt is lost every few hours too. Z screw brass nuts came loosely installed too, so i bet there was some issues with it at the factory.
Serial number sticker was loose and peeling off, not realizing it was serial number, threw the peeling off sticker in the trash bin.
Not only all that, but they never bothered to make any decent profiles on it, it prints quite bad, and it has material flaws, too soft aluminium grade on the carriages.
Sovol is giving run around, asking me a video how it shocks etc. -.-
I don't think "bed slingers" are dead at all, i am using an almost stock Creality CR10S with the exception that i recently upgraded my hotend to the Creality Spider Speedy Ceramic, even though it was a pain in the ass because it required a 24V supply. I am already printing at least 3 times faster compared to stock with speed of 120 mm/s instead of 40 mm/s and 4 times higher acceleration at 2000 mm/s^2 instead of 500 mm/s^2, i am sure i can even go higher but i have other things to do than testing and the printing time and quality of my printer are still decent. Also usually as you mentioned and i have seen many times in other videos, ultra high speed/accel CoreXY printing requires extreme cooling and it's still not always successful... and of course i won't even discuss the cost and complexity of their modifications...
Annoying that it doesn't come from the factory, but you can add a couple D4184 MOSFET boards to control the fans on the SV06/Plus. Really quick mod. Tie their PWM inputs to PA13 and PA14 which are avail on the 4-pin header between the screen port and the USB port. Hardest part is mounting the boards inside the MCU case.
An issue with bed slingers that I have heard but that you didn't mention is that large items add to the weight, throwing off Input Shaping calibrations more and more as they print. Is this actually a big deal? Something for a future video?
I would rather then just replace the whole board as that would also allow for the Z axis with dual drivers.
Hmm, that's a fact but only question how much. I bet you would get way more artifacts because of not rigid frame when you print higher.
I did this, but on a ender using a leftover pin for the hot end fan. Such a huge QoL to be able level, tram and tinker without that annoying fan.
Mechanical design engineer here: Bed slingers are cheaper but they don´t perform as well in certain cases. They are not dead just inferior to Core XY. It´s not like everybody drives a Lambo. Most people drive the type of car which suits THEM the most for whichever reason, same goes for 3D printing.
Not dead "yet". The increased print speeds of core XY is a big reason why Bambu is capturing the marketplace. This will force other companies (even Prusa) to enter the space and eventually drive improvements to core XY shortcomings.
Speeds would meant nothing if their printers wouldn't be "just works" type. That's the main reason. So many people want just to print and not to deal with other stuff.
@@PrintingPerspective And so other printers can´t be "just work types" ? The question is about the design choice of a bed slinger not if it performs out of the box.
Having pretty much re engineered a classic bed slinger from scratch as a fallback printer, and ironed out its kinks, I can say they are capable of surprisingly good performance for the money relative to their simplicity. Frankly, they are more than enough for most regular folks in reality. However, the future is definitely with core xy though, when the customer demands the absolute best in quality and speed combined.
I heard folks push a good old Ender 3 up to 10k accel. Main thing to push beyond 3-4k is light bed carriage and 9mm belt/pulley on Y.
They still use wheels as those are enough if you don't push over 10k accel, where Y axis is still a bottleneck even with lighter carriage and beefier belt.
its time to unleash the Prusa Bear.
I own an Anet E10 that runs Marlin 2.1.2 my usual accels are 7-8k accel for interior walls and 2.5-3.5k accel for exterior, at 250-280mm/s and 8-15mm/s jerk (the folks over marlin did an outstanding job with their input shaping implementation)
Fundamentally, bed slingers are perfectly adequate machines for 99% of use cases.
Personally though, 3D Printing is my hobby - it's not my job. So really, when it comes to 3D printers, I'm only going to buy the ones that I find exciting personally. At this point, I haven't been excited by a bed slinger in ages. The last one I bought was a Prusa Mk3S+ because I wanted to build one, and that quickly ended up being given to a friend who wanted a dead reliable printer for his small business.
Other than that, I haven't bought a bed slinger in at least 5 years. I would just much prefer to build a CoreXY machine from scratch at this point because they're a lot more fun to tweak/work with/watch.
They're not dead - they're just dead to me.
Thanks for sharing! What do you think about going fast with v-wheels (running klipper)
They wear way too fast and they are not that rigid unless it is a tiny printer. If you want set and forget type of experience try to avoid v wheels.
Bed slingers are not dead "yet". But it's an inevitability. The marketplace drives the direction of the manufacturing progression. And "casuals" not "enthusiasts" drive the marketplace. It's why the iPod dominated despite having inferior tech to its early rivals. "Casuals" don't want to tinker, and they don't want to wait an entire day for a print when they see others getting the same part in a fraction of the time. Even Prusa will be forced into the core XY market or fade into irrelevance. It's just the sad reality sometimes. Bed slingers won't be totally gone, but they will not be the norm. Of course, all this is moot if a new technology emerges or delta somehow catches on.
how do you get your printers to print that fast? I have an SV06 plus but my prints have excessive ringing at high accelerations with input shaping. Maybe you could do a deep dive video on how you tune everything in!
I don't really do guide videos. Maybe you just placing the accelerometer in the wrong orientation.
Core XY might stand out when printing tall objects
Yes, that's a fact, but if your prints aren't too thin there shouldn't be a huge difference.
Well my custom 120mm bed slinger currently in 1st prototype still runs circles around most other bed slingers in speed and my corexy in cooling quality, and surprisingly it is made of just 8mm rods , 2020 extrusions and cantilever design
Yeah, smaller ones are still so capable. I kinda want to design and make a small one myself.
@@PrintingPerspective I’m working on a new version right now that uses common voron 0 bed and Creality hotend. Working on a belted z for faster z movement. It’s still Bowden but the already short tube makes it a non issue. And I guess I can adapt it to a bambu hotend for more flow… currently using that in my Ender after seeing your video. I’m quite impressed with it so far mainly because of the clean laminar flow
I love my Voron Switchwire and its unique kinematics.
And my IDEX bed slinger does a great job with a simple design and no extra weight that have to be pushed in xy direction.
My AnkerMake M5 is an absolute beast of a bed-slinger. 5k accel, 500mm/s printing. Solid software, good quality hardware. Outstanding prints.
Bad software, and unimportantly, ugly asf
Did they implemented the input shaper? The last time I saw prints on the M5 they had so much ghosting.
@@PrintingPerspective since marlin got input shaping my guess is that yes, but I'm not sure
I have switchwire work great is not dead bedslinger :)
Next Video: Include Delta's like the FLSUN V400 ^^
i for myself like CoreXY more. I have a printer that once was an Ender 5, but apart from the Frame its not the same anymore. Converted to a true CoreXY, Cast aluminum bed with 230V 500W Heater, Stealthburner as my Toolhead, an enclosure that enables me to be good at PLA and Nylon at the same time, cause it can be heated by an additional ceramic heater for high temp materials and cooled by opening the sides if printing PLA. Accels are at 15k for the most part, but i also got precision/quality profiles that dial down the accels to moderate 8k. Travel moves are always done at 15k with 600mm/s. And since it doesnt have to fling around a bed, it takes up less space ^^
Oh: dont forget the stability of the printed piece... you cant go nuts with a tall print on a bedslinger...
Boi, print something 20-30cm tall on a bed swinging at 8k with 250mm/s and let's talk about details and artifacts on top.
It's all fun and laughs when you do a 3cm tall print on a bedslinger, even my Ender can do decent benchy in 20 minutes. Print something tall and see what happens. Print quality is in the stability of Z and it's hard to see consistency on a voron cube or on a benchy.
I dare ya: go print a 30cm highly geometrical vase on the SV06+ and on the coreXY and let's look at the top of those.
I don't even need to watch this video to know comments like that are just noobs in disguise.
I just intall klipper in my modified ender3 , and its very good , i download the print time to 50% , i print a 10 hrs model in 5 hours l (cura give me that time) at 300mms infill/150 mms walls,3000 mm/s2 acc , in this way a , really yuo can "feell" how easy klipper and the pi handle all the fast movements , but without "efford" , i was testing Marlin 2.1.2 linear advance and input shaping , i think klipper its a very good firmware,the way yuo interact
I dont mind brute forcing it withthe bed slinger, my cr19 max seems to have little issue.
Huh, that's less of a difference than they say. I keep swaying between making a tiny corexy and getting (and klippering) KP3S because you just can't buy a small bedslinger unless it's a cantilever. And then we know that the second rail is possible ;)
Yea, if printers have good enough motion systems and rigid frames Klipper can hide almost all ghosting without needing too aggressive input shaper.
I am not sure if the KP3S cantilever worth it with Klipper, I explained that in one of my previous videos. I would love smaller one too...
If you need to print ABS then only CoreXY but there are no decent small corexys or bed slingers at this moment. DIY corexy would probably be the best cost effective solution.
@@PrintingPerspective Knowing me I'm more likely to print tiny models on the left side :) It's just KP3S is now $124 and the tiny 12cm corexy kit is close to $400. I already have a pi and used to have linear advance, filament change and other necessities, so I'd change stock firmware to _something_ anyway, why not Klipper :)
well mixed feelings here. Own a CR 10S Pro 5 years lots of mods and more coming. the main issue for speed is part size and height for bed to zig zag a tall part has to slow down to maintain quality. Where the Core XY can fly at all heights. It should win that contest. BUT, I own this large Bed SLinger and invested in it. However, when i really need to print 350mm tall parts fast I would like to have a Core XY option. Where a smaller bed slinger for small parts makes sense. But given my budget if I can only have one printer I am in good shape, Slowing down over height can that be made into a macro for all print management??? Price to pay for lack of funding. Dennis "Klipper is Transforming!!!!"
Im building a big boy bed slinger, 750 x 380 bed with 500 Z. It wont be sped up as theres no rush for my needs. Made to print one piece RC Aeroplane wings and fuselages. On subject of bedslingers being dead... My Little KP3S kingroon prints much faster and as good or better than my Ender 5 plus. That things snail pace or rubbish prints and fails.
SV06 has more than just one flow. I mean seriously ? The part cooling fn sucks air from the print bed to then blow it on the print again ? They could have simply turned it around or IDK just changed the design entirely it´s not like some magic machines are missing which can print plastic housings holders and such ...
I thought it would be a bigger issue, but cooling is pretty decent. Compared to the tied fan control that can actually kill the printer it is almost non existent issue lol. Reputable companies do full recalls if something like this happen. But I doubt that they even inform buyers as that would hurt the sales...
@@PrintingPerspective Sure it works somewhat, however it´s not best practise and may differ with temp and material.
It´s also completely obvious. It pains me to see this since even somebody with little knowledge in the matter must understand that this is not a good idea.
Chinese companies are not reputable unfortunately.
You compared this to a that Garbage Quidi printer they are known to make trash compare those to a Bambu P1P which is now $599 it will destroy both of those printers hands down
I don't know about "destroying" but it definitely can print at similar quality with higher speed/accel compared to the tested bed slingers. QIDI's printers are cheaply made plastic boxes, but they do an okayish job when printing ABS/ASA and they have those same 20K accels. But the auto bed leveling is a disaster, as it is impossible to get a good first layer and the price of the printer is 2x of what it should cost. Not to mention extremely questionable longevity. At least we can agree that no one should be buying QIDI printers lol.
LOL no theyre not. My Longer LK5 Pros are some of the best printers I own and give super clean primts. Its a workhorse.
I am glad LK5 is treating you well, I had way too many problems with mine.
@@PrintingPerspective odd. I did the dual axis mod and updated dual fan extruder. They have about 2900 hours each and just keep chugging along.
My qidi x-plus 3 prints an benchy in 17 minut, and the quality is perfect. While in this video its take double the time, and the print quality is shit. I bet i could get even faster printing speed if i tweak the settings, and use qidi rapido filaments. I think this comparison is unfair both for quidi, and corexy printers. The printer in this video is probaly faulty.
Agree to disagree, my Core-XY and H-Bot both out perform my bedslinger and all have perfect quality prints.
Your Voron needs work it looks horrible.
There was no voron in this video ;D I am glad you still around, love your name, haha!
@@PrintingPerspective sorry, thought this was your core-xy.
th-cam.com/video/1yBOYsutdMo/w-d-xo.html
I kind of zoned during this vid after the cost comparison when I saw the quality of your core-xy.
I like the cost break downs you did, nice work. :)
My Vcore-3 is a beast I would not replace with anything.
Think about cars. Not everyone drives a McLaren, people buy which car suits _their_ budget, and needs. Not everyone needs a 7 minute speed benchy like me :)
@@coltenmeredith8899 That is the point, core-xy costs are dropping to the point it doesn't make sense to invest in a bed slinger these days.
Nice
So nice
SOURCE: Trust me bro
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I'm poor so bed slinger is perfect for me 😄
my cantilever bed slinger, a minon, outperforms the most core-xy machines with ease
Are bedslingers dead? No not yet. That being said, they are in trouble...More and more people want better printers. THat will bring down the price of printers which means they are more appealing to people looking at affordable bedslingers...in general, i do not see bedslingers going away any time soon but i do thing the competition for beslingers will get more cutthroat and some companies may stop offering them all together because their margins will become too low.