How FAST is KLIPPER REALLY? ...CHEAP BED SLINGERS go Ferrari mode?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2022
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Faster printing is one the big things in FDM 3D printing at the moment!
Klipper might be one of the most advanced Firmwares and it's considered to be a speed at quality boost.
How fast is it really? I'll give you the answers!
247printing on social media:
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Bed Slingers used*:
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Kingroon KP3S (AliExpress): bit.ly/3RsK3Aw
Fokoos Odin-5 F3 (Fokoos) : bit.ly/3TDsBve
BIQU B1 (AliExpress): bit.ly/3TD4ywf
Artillery Hornet (geekbuying.com): bit.ly/3vSqxVB
Use code for 154.34€ (!): NNN3DGMAHT
Recommended FAST PRINTERS*:
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Voron 0.1 (AliExpress): bit.ly/39kfWdC
Voron 2.4 (AliExpress): bit.ly/3PklmWE
Voron Trident (AliExpress): bit.ly/3yxMaNe
Mentions:
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Klipper Documentation: www.klipper3d.org/
3DPrintBeginner(Klipper Articles): 3dprintbeginner.com/
Teaching Tech (Klipper Videos): / teachingtech
Stefan's AutoFlowTestTool: • Easy Hotend Benchmark ...
Klipper Printer (FLSUN V400): • Welcome the super star...
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This video was amazing. The point you made about increasing profits by increasing output is absolutely correct. I run 20 ender 3s for my business and was going to phase out the i3 design for a Corexy machine and klipper. I realized klipper is the real reason for the speed increase and made the upgrade to all of my ender 3s and kept them. I print 100% faster now on klipper and has made me very happy business owner! I saved so much money by going to klipper. Never going back to Marlin
Thank you SO much!!
Did the quality also increase? I'm looking to convert one of my enders.
I hate it when people don’t reply! Great question!!! It’s great to see such a difference in speed however, what I want, is the highest quality at the highest speed and that might not be 100% faster but I’ll take 50% faster at a much higher quality…
Marlin 2.1.2 has experimental input shaping, so never say never :)
Nice. Except your parts are now WEAKER. As printing faster requires more cooling = poorer layer adhesion.
Wonderful video sir.
I love tinkering, so klipper has been a welcome addition. about 12 of my printers are on klipper, and most of them are cheap i3's.
The value of a $49 open box ender 3 pro, with a microswiss metal hotend + a CHT high flow nozzle is insane. I've found with converting to pei sheets from glass beds, running wheel tension on the light side just enough for no play, and a little extra stepper current, they can print reliably at 5k accelerations with up to 1kg on the bed. Adding the CHT nozzle is the hands down best way to add a ton of extrusion performance with no extra machine modifications.
Reliability has seemingly improved as well, I have a few klipper enders that run on the ragged edge of speed/accel with thousands of hours now with no needed maintenance besides bed cleaning. They've been going so long that they are missing so many current version Klipper/fluid features its almost annoying, however if it aint broke, don't fix it lmao
Great video! I am loving Klipper. It was awesome to see the realistic comparison with stock Marlin and Klipper with just default budget printer hardware. It is a question I have gotten quite a few times over the past year. This definitely took time to create both on the film and testing side. Awesome job brotha!
Thanks a lot, man - so nice you stopped by and left a comment! Yup, that was a lot of time for this video - also because the initial plan for this video was completely different to what I uploaded in the end :-)
huge thanks for this easy to understand showcase
I'm a long time Marlin user and I've wanted to better understand other options
I just watched video from a bearded bald guy who thinks he's the DJ Khaled of 3d printing and learned nothing, this video really cleared everything out
OK now I have to get Klipper 😆 two times faster is really mind blowing and seems worth the effort.
Started using Klipper because I built a Voron, but now having Klipper on a printer is a must for me
Thank you for sharing. Well presented, enguaging ,enjoyable to watch. Learned a bunch about Firmware differences today. Will look into Klipper for my next printer. Worth watching
Great video. I am just currently setting up Klipper on my voron 0 and this video just pushed my motivation 💪
Great video, very useful to see the what to expect when upgrading. The new Marlin supports input shaping, would be interesting to see how it stacks up against Klipper as well.
Freaking nice 10min overview of this OS. I didn't know about the other channels either. I thought Klipper was only for xy core systems. But know I might take a look at this Klipper OS for my Bed slinger as well. Excellent report👌. Keep it up pal 😎👍
One of the few videos that correctly calls all those printers what they really are - Ender clones =)
Like for me just for that. All other info is on point as well.
you do realise the ender is itself a clone?
Amazing video! This took a ton of time, and you nailed what matters. I love pushing my machines and klipper allows for some fun prints. I was able to get the KP3S printing reasonably at 10k accel, with an H2 and linear railed Z
Thank you so much!
Awesome video.... How much would the printers gain on all metal heatbreaks... Higher flow less retract and crisper extrusions...
First... ;)
And how about tpu? I have no luck with tpu on my all metal hotends
Thanks a lot, Nitram! Let's see if I'll make another video on those bed slingers. Some (little) upgrades might make a big difference...
Or just CHT - the highest bang for buck (ntm effort) of any printer upgrade.
@@daliasprints9798 sure but .. the all metal heatbreak is in my book a must have upgrade
@@Nitram_3d Yeah. I waited all too long to do it after hearing bad experiences with the old fat throat style and PLA. But I didn't get any real flow benefits. PA & quality improvement, unlocking new materials, and convenience of not having to fight with PTFE are all excellent tho!
Awesome video!
Cheers for summarizing so much!
Thanks a lot Haensel (und Gretel auch)!
Great video, definitely a strong and compelling reason to try klipper.. Im discovering though that you can tweak firmware and hardware all you want its the slicer that makes or breaks your print.. configuration for specific filaments and profiles now THAT is a reading/comprehension nightmare and also, where I have the most difficulty. Unfortunately I learn more from seeing than reading
Wonderful Video for the Starters
Thank you very much, mate!
Awesome information and presentation, thank you 💪
Thank YOU!
Espectacular video !!!! Abrazos y saludos desde Córdoba Argentina 🎉🎉🎉
very good (and useful) comparison!
I had planned to do some similar tests with my printer (Fokoos Odin-5 F3) but you've already done all the hard work. Thank you, great summary!
Thank you so much Bart! I'll enjoy two nice Leberkäse-Semmels with your gift :-)
Just ordered a Neptune 4 Pro and have been thinking about upgrading my Vyper to Klipper for over a year, this has convinced me, liked and subbed :)
Another key thing that increases productivity, that isn't directly related to how fast the machine can operate, is having a web accessible UI. If you're printing a lot, the time saved from not having to move files to and from physical storage media adds up.
Well made video! I'm on the fence but will likely take a plunge into Klipper in the near future.
Thank you! Great video
9:12 "On the other hand, reading, trying, and succeeding with new topics is fun in the end right?"
I was almost expecting a "that's why I love Curiosity Stream" sponsorship after that sentence 🤣💀
Thank you very much! You inspired me to switch from Marlin to Klipper on my Artillery Hornet. I also tuned input shaping using the ADXL345 sensor obtaining amazing results on the ringing tower model!
However I am now finding some difficulties on bringing high speed onto "normal" prints, despite no problems on the ringing tower.
I am currently trying to print at around 90 mm/s and max accel set to 3000 with poor results (usually, some of the final layers won't extrude anymore or extrude badly with visible holes).
Do you, by any chance, remember which settings you used for speed/acceleration on the hornet?
Thank a lot and keep doing that!!
Great video, you convinced me as a 3D printing newbie to deepdive into klipper right now and then install it on my Ender 3 Pro! :D
Thanks and yes: Do it. It's still worth it to understand Klipper! I also did it on an Ender 3 pro and the speed/quality upgrade is awesome!
Nice comparison, I also run my ender 3 v2 at about 2x it's original speed with Klipper :) Or at least it now prints faster than my mk3s+ at nearly the same quality!
Hey Jon, thanks a lot !
Excellent efforts
nice video brother ! well done. Klipper FTW !!
Thanks a lot Simon! So nice you stopped by. Congrats to 20k btw. - very well deserved!
@@247printing i watch every video you make man. You are my favorite voice on youtube haha
Love your videos
Klipper is my go to firmware any time I build a new machine. The ability to update the config over WiFi without having to deal with Arduino is so nice. Great video. Definitely justifies putting Klipper on cheap or old machines
Great video. Thanks
love the music (please do not switch music genre), the editing, the narration, the bloopers, and the entire channel.
Thanks a lot! I am very happy you like it!
Wouldn't it have made more sense to see how far you could push the speed on the default firmware first?
Awesome, subscribed
Thanks a lot 🤩
Super interesting! Thanks for the analysis. Oh goodness, one more rabbit hole to go down. There are too many in this hobby/industry!
Thank you for helping me to understand just how much of a boost I can really receive from moving to klipper. Are you planning a video on the Klipper pads that are showing up? and what about the Y axes when using it on a bedslinger? I saw the accelerometer on the X axes. How does that work?
THANKS for the video. I have one Hornet and three Odins. PLUS a few PI. SO I will experiment eventually!!
Thank you! Hornet and Odin were both very easy to install Klipper!
If I was you: DO IT!
Amazing video! Can I ask you if you can share the models that you used for tests? Expecially the one for the layer time
Nice comparative. I would like see in more deepth about the bed slinger accelerations vs printer mods. I've seen people talking about how stiffer springs, changing the tension on the belts and reinforcing the frame have changed the values but hardly anyone has shown the results.
You can watch some of my videos at high acceleration without any mods to the Ender 3 motion system.
That would be very interesting indeed!
Your artillery hornet is printing mirrored on the X axis. You could set the homing direction to "max" instead of "min", just like the voron switchwire.
Thanks a lot and congrats: You found one of the easter eggs in this video :-) Just kidding: I realized it only when doing the editing of that video :-)
You're welcome, greetings from Niedersachsen
Greetings from Niederbayern 👍
Hi würdest du klipper bei ein Turnigy Fabrikator empfehlen? Es hat arduino mega 2560 mit ramps 1.4 als Mainboard. Und hat 12V psu falls das eine Rolle spielt. Würde mich sehr über Rückmeldung freuen! LG aus dem Bundesland Österreich @@247printing
@@247printinghi würdest du klipper auf dem alten Drucker Turnigy Fabrikator (Arduino mega 2560 ramps 1.4 als Mainboard und 12v netzteil).
Bisschen Kontext: Hab da das aktuellste marlin drauf laufen und hab es gemodded damit ich ein pei druckbett haben kann. Der Drucker ist uralt aber schneller als mein neuer. Und ich habe einen alten thin Client (AMD E450) aus Windows 7 Zeiten rumliegen der extrem schlecht ist mit einem niedrigeren single core benchmarkwert als raspberry pi. Linux mit Desktop läuft eher langsam aber ohne Desktop Environment mit mehr RAM könnte ein Versuch wert sein. Mir geht's hauptsächlich darum, ob der Drucker an sich klipper betreiben kann oder eher keine gute Idee? Das mit dem thin Client wäre ein Versuch dem Gerät neues Leben einzuhauchen
Lg
Awesome video. I would love to try klipper out, however, I only have a Monoprice Select Mini V2 and I am not sure Klipper will work on it. Any advice on this subject?
i would love to get my hands on the profiles so i can compare my settings. I have and kingroon kp3s with h2 extruder. Thanks for a great video :)
Awesome comparison, Thanks, would you be willing to share the config for the hornet machine. I already flashed mine . but would benefit immensely from you knowledge
Thanks
Honestly a lovely, informative video. Keep doing what you're doing, I couldn't help but feel suprised your subs don't match quality of information I was given with this video.
Wow, thank you so much - I had goosebumps reading this :-)
Hey, thanks for vid. Do you mind sharing which accelerometer you used? Thanks.
Amazin vídeo ! thank you very much.
I have a similarly classed printer to the Kingroon KP3S (Tronxy crux 1) that I would love to try Klipper on but creating a config for it way beyond me.
Hey 247- I want to make a Voron 0.1 like yours, with the 1000mm/s n stuff. Did you use a kit? If so and if not, which do you recommend to get to convert into your super fast voron (which I personally dub the Rocket Box.
Where did you get theb test prints for the auto cooling settings. That is something I would like to dial in
For some reason I thought that klipper was something meant for high end printers...Well that was until I learned about macros. It was delightfully easy and simple to install and get running.
Wow 😮 what is the best walkthroughs on calibration my prints don’t look like that
This was a great video! You exactly pointed out what I was experiencing the last week. I got an ender 3 v2 with direct drive conversion, 2 big radial part cooling fans and a dragonfly bms hotend. klipper improved my print time about 100%. Its really crazy seeing this ender 3 move at such accelerations and speeds. didnt wanna buy a pi for too much money, so I put PI OS into a VM on my laptop and its working great. it was some work, getting input shaping right without the sensor etc but it was absolutly worth it. klipper is so much better. I also used my old galaxy s6 as a screen with KlipperScreen.
You may be printing twice as fast, but your parts are also weaker. Do you print functional parts or just decorative stuff?
@@alejandroperez5368 I cannot tell you what Iam printing(hence its illegal), but I can ensure you that the parts are very functional and working under high stress.
@@gehtsienixan4442 I command you to tell me what it is you're printing. Dildos ?
I have an artillery hornet can you please share the settings that you used for your hornet so we can use them? Thank you
This is a great Video and shows how I can squeeze some more oomph out of my aging Biqu B1. Would you recommend just getting it hooked up to a Sonic Pad?
I myself have Klipper running on 6 of my printers. I would be curious to know if you would be willing to share your printer.cfg file for your Fokoos, to see how it compares to the one I setup and am running. Also wanted to say excellent video by the way comparing Klipper to the stock firmware's of these machine's.
Nice !!!
Great Video, how can i determine layer time and min print speed of my printer?
Thank you! Didn’t find a perfect generic procedure for that, but I use sth pointed for min print speed and something fast with overhangs for layer time (hull of a benchy with low infill)
You mentioned that you calibrate minimum layer time/cooling and minimum print speed.
I would be interested in the procedure as I tried to wrap my head around this already but have no idea for a systematic approach.
Input shaping and pressure advance are calibrated, acceleration and square corner velocity are tuned. The next step is to optimize cooling to improve print time for small parts.
By the way I'm using a modded ender 3 (CHT nozzle) so flow rate is the least of my problems 😅
You basically have to print models consecutively increasing/decreasing the settings you are tuning on each run, and going with the lowest/highest you find quality acceptable
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/
I have been shopping for a new 3D printer to replace my reliable workhorse bed slinger. I assumed I'd get a Creality K1 Max for the improved print quality, speed increase (maybe 2X as opposed to the 12X from Creality marketing), and a return to an enclosed machine to print ABS again. As of a few days ago, after doing more research, I'm now inclined to stay with a bed slinger but get a Klipper machine. The bed slingers are inexpensive, reliable, easy to use and easy to maintain. Klipper has greatly improved them, even though our focus on Klipper has been on core XY machines. My only regret would be not being able to print in ABS, but I'll convert my ABS designs to PETG to print on a non-enclosed bed slinger, or maybe I'll make an enclosure that I can use with a bed slinger when I want to print ABS. I'm currently waiting on a good Klipper bed slinger with a 300 mm cube build volume. It seemed inevitable, and I heard a rumor that one is currently being evaluated by a TH-cam reviewer.
great video ! love it, I run klipper too on a ender 3 and it's a beast ! I do print with esun pla+ with a orbiter 2.0 DD and a E3Dv6 but I've got a lot of small stringing, do you have printing seting to avoid thoses ? like retraction speed or retraction lenght ? thanks a lot !
Do a retraction tower to find the appropriate value.
Can you test if servo motors have any benefits over the steppers.
Well you were certainly correct we were going to see Klipper on more and more printers out of the box! The gains we see are even more impressive than you got in this video as well.
great video
You should make a video on how to install Klipper on that Hornet there since there’s only videos of showing it off
Would you be able to provide me with the config for the hornet please ?
Duet's support input shaping now as well.
Hi, is it possible to share the settings used in this video for Biqu B1 ?
Dear God, thats grazy speed up. My long term project is using klipper, will be interesting to see how self designed 3d printer will perform against stock factory made ones.
I have found sparse information at best for the MK3s+
Is there a one stop shop for the path to install klipper with an MK3s+?
Recently switched to Klipper on my Artillery Sidewinder X2 and I'm loving it so far. Do you have a process you use to calibrate your minimum layer time, maybe a gcode file or cura script you use?
I also have an X2 and preparing to switch to klipper, did you push print speed to the limit?
I'm curious if something like 210mm/s is achievable
@@pietrom2642 The volcano hotend of the X2 can comfortable extrude a flow of 25mm/s^3. You could conceivably crank your speed up to 350mm/s with a 0.4 nozzle at 0.2m layer height. I usually print at around 200mm/s with 3K acceleration, but I'm going to play with those numbers more when I get input shaper set up.
I guess i need to get klipper coupled with my 0.6mm nozzle in my effort to decrease print times with my ender 3.
Where did you get the printer config for the Biqu B1?
While Klipper can of course can not change the hardware limitations of your printer, like max volumetric flow and cooling, with klipper you actually can now make use of already existing good solutions. For example a Bondtech CHT boost up your volumetric flow without any further hardware modification. Just a change of nozzle.
Also there is a cool cooling solution called "Berd-Air" to improve cooling.
With upgrading to Klipper the next upgrades follow eventually...
I'm not as driven by speed for klipper as I am tired of making changes, compiling code, said compiling failing, fixing errors, recompiling, flashing printer, testing out changes, making more changes, recompiling code... you get the idea. Klipper allows for rapid changes and even allows for input shaping and pressure advance settings on the fly, even without the bits and bods to do it 100% correctly. Marlin just isn't that quick and dirty. You can do it, but the latest flavor of Marlin seems to have a lot more checks and balances built in, most of which won't cause any damage to your printer. I can't tell you how many times I've had compiling fail, cryptic error messages just to take out changes to make it compile. I have an Ender 3 that I have been messing with Klipper on and I'm looking at my other running printers just because I like being able to change Klipper, test it out, change it back if I don't like the results, all in about the time it takes to copy firmware to an sd card...not true, but you get the idea.
Absolutely, that's one of the strongest pros of Klipper also for me. When I started with FDM and "printers as projects" back in 2017 I chose Smoothieware, because the processes involved with Marlin drove me insane.
This is why Ive been trying to setup Klipper and then now with direct drive for the past month but having a hard time.
I wish I can access the test STLs, could you share with us , please ?
Great video. I've been thinking about making the switch to Klipper. Tired of recompiling to add or remove a feature... I also like to go fast. if you aint first yer last.
Thanks a lot, Ben!
Thanks
Interesante comparativa. lo que no entiendo es porque no pasar directamente esos parametros al firmware original. si das mas aceleracion al la maquina seguro que vas a ir mas rapido.
Just one question. The LCD screen included in the Artillery Hornet is supported by Klipper? thanks in advance.
Short answer, AFAIK: Yes
@@247printing thanks for such an immediate response!
Thanks for another beast mode video brotha ! as always the work is bitchin ! :)
Thanks a lot, Jeff!
i have a question so i have my first printer but i need to know will this void my warranty and if so is it worth voiding my warranty because if this printer break i can't afford to get a new one
The Marlin 2.1 had input shaping!
I am intrested in method to calculate min layer time and speed
We're discovering that even single board printers can manage input shaping and higher speeds, since new 32-bit boards have much more power than is utilized by Marlin. The extra computation uses a bit more energy, but not as much as tethering a Raspberry Pi. So, older printers can benefit greatly from a firmware upgrade with no change to the hardware. Upcoming versions of Marlin will include more advanced time-based motion and input shaping contributed by Ulendo, providing even better results with no change in electronics. So the future is looking bright and speedy for all legacy printers!
Very nice Albert.
I use thanks you Klipper.
Gruß
Albert
Hey Albert, thanks a lot! Gruß, Albert :-)
I have a Creality Sonic Pad on the way. I’m going to use it on my Ender-3 S1 Plus. I have spare Raspberry pi’s and might set one up with Klipper for my Ender-3 Pro. You can also see a review on that FLSUN delta printer on Aurora Tech’s channel. This very young girl really knows her stuff.
Is there any good documentation/video out there describing how to find minimum layer time/print speeds? Because it's the biggest issue I struggle with...
You found a weak point here: I just do it this way (that's the third video I used this method), but I never explained exactly how I do it and why it works. I don't know of any source that explains it. My simple method (that works so far): Print something pointed for min. print speed and print something fast with overhangs for min layer time (Benchy hull without infill). There might definitely be better or cleverer ways for that...
@@247printing Interesting, I'll try that, thanks!
I added a sonic pad to my Ender 3v2 and Ender 3s1, but I am having a hard time finding resourced to tweek them to get max speed with good quality. Do you have any resources to share?
What really matters is whether you can use the part just printed!
How can input shaping speed up the print when it slows down the start and stop inertia?
Yup, it's 2024 and we're printing perfectly usable parts at high quality 2-4 times faster thanks to input shaping which is used widely since 2019.
Welcome to the future ;-)
"(...) slows down the start and stop inertia?"
Please elaborate on this, that's not the case.
Does klipper automatically suggest and implement the faster print speeds or do you have to take its test results and input them manually into each print?
I have tuned input shaper and linear advance inside marlin and I have been able to increase my acceleration to 3000 from 600 and double the print speed, without loss of quality
Please make a video about the minimum time and minimum speed calibration! I never found anything helping to tune them!
I use the Benchy Hull without infill and top solid for the layer time and something small and potinted for minimum speed (iteratively). But I also still don't have a (good) idea for systematic approach other than that :/ As soon as I have, there might be a video.
Please share your Biqu B1 firmware and cfg file.
It looks like you have it working well.
Thanks
Mark
It would be great to see what the performance increase is when a couple more cooling fans are installed and the main speed limitation becomes the fundamental fact that a bed slinger is a bed slinger and has to move the bed around a lot more than other printer types.
could you pass the printer.cfg configuration file for the artillery hornet?
Can you share configs .cfg?? I'm trying to make good prints with artillery Hornet but had some problems
Hello have the sonic pad and been looking to hook up to FOKOOS Odin 3 with no way to understand how to flash the board no info on internet is their any way to get the info or step by step cause I’ve been looking for a month already driving me crazy