I've NEVER had PETG bond itself to bare glass before on the machines I've run it. It's always been tough to print because the first layer just wouldn't stick right. I've had PETG weld itself to PEI before, that one was fun...
I agree.. ALL printers are tested with Benchy. Print a normal size benchy (no doubt it will look terrible with a nozzle that size) Then print a massive one and put a motor and RC controls on it.
@@BBMando69 I watched a youtube yesterday of someone 3d printing a stool, and they had the description saying: today i'm going to 3d print a stool. They used dowel to connect the seat to the stools legs, and it was printed so fast that the infill settings were not that durable, and i mentioned that they better be very safe with that or they could end up either in the hospital or the coroners office if they shifted their weight while sitting on that stool if they forget that its not the safest design they created. Furniture printing should not be compromized with no cutting corners in the safety redundancy dept. Something to consider if anyone wants to print a chair, so they dont end up in a wheelchair for life or worse without life. The-Digital-Lifeguard-Project-_- #SafetyFirst
@@truetech4158 You may joke, but one day soon there will be houses that were fully constructed and furnished to a habitable level in a shockingly short time by a fleet of trailers containing a bunch of 3D printers and feed stock. We can already print large structures in concrete, it would be easy to add dual extrusion of expanding insulation foam to that machine, and Laser Metal Deposition is progressing rapidly to the point where we can print structural-grade parts in various alloys without a need for post-processing. Ten years at most, I'd wager, until we see a functional fully 3D printed home.
3/16 also seems really thin for that size. I'd think 1/4 or 5/16 minimum. But Joel come on I know you like to play the dumb consumer to test user friendliness but this is a commercial machine with a pricetag to match. You had to know that was going to happen when you printed directly on glass with petg.
If Disney has broken it 4 times already as well, that sounds like there are settings or prints to avoid. Feels like certain materials/temps when mixed with a large enough first layer create too much adhesion
It's pretty well known as a material that's best not printed onto bare glass. It's pretty much universally recommend from most reputable sources that a barrier layer of some sort is best practice.
In Naturalis (a nature history museum in the Netherlands) They have a large printer (Don't know the brand, but it's definetly a different one) to print missing bones for their dinosaur skeletons
“Magigoo 3D Printing Adhesives offer a great way for ensuring your prints stick perfectly to the build plate, even when printing with more challenging materials like nylon, polypropylene, or polycarbonate.” :p
Was thinking 'hope he set zoffset for petg' 😭 Thats why he welded to the pei also too close. Oh and Yes totally print a throne to sit in and watch prints!
This, Joel, THIS is the printer to turn out a GIANT rubber band rocket from your ladt Fan Mail Friday¡! It would be glorious!!!! Do it! Do it! Doooooooo it!
While I agree that Joel seems to be a nice guy being honest about his mistakes (hard to say without knowing him in person, but that’s my impression from his videos) - having the printer and not making a video would certainly be a problem for any creator and most creators would have made some kind of video.
@@SoylentSax only meant it's commendable of him keeping it real, by pointing out the crack that happened in the glass print bed and how the jug holder fused to the flexible print bed. As opposed to say, for example, simply covering over the crack with the flexible build plate and not stating the (literal) underlying issue going on underneath. To be honest, a $38K machine purchase outright is far beyond the means many folks have available at the moment to begin with, but rather than simply "keep up appearances" he has a great way of remaining relatable, even the casual hobbyist, by pointing out that things CAN go wrong. I, for one, have appreciate that about his vlogging style thus far. 🤗
@@SoylentSax I believe I've heard petg isn't supposed to be printed on bare glass because of the effect that Joel saw and it's recommended that one uses blue tape or a removable surface to print on. never printed in petg though so I may be confusing it with a different material
@@katherinemorton9126 Linus Droptest has become official testing standard nowadays for electronics. Manufacturers use it by sending things to Linus :)
Yes! OMG THE IRON MAN ARMOR!! Its finally a big enough printer to one piece it! The helmet wouldn't need gluing, it could be printed as is! The biggest pain was gluing it all together when it was done, and the glue breaking, etc. Dude...while you've got it, iron man armor!
@@rpavlik1 No, just no, why would you make it so that a whole department has to exist purely to run a 3D printer? There are soo many design oversights on this printer, to the point that I would say it's not even suitable to be produced.
Hi Joel! We use an older version of that printer at work and had the same outcome with PETG. Went we have to print PETG, we use a sheet of MIC6 1/4" aluminum on top of the glass with a custom start script to take into account the extra thickness in Simplify3D. G1 Z6.8 F100 G92 Z0 6.8mm is the thickness of the sheet we got. PETG seems to create micro-fractures in the glass when printing large models.
So THAT is what happened. I figured it was something like that. When I went to remove the pawn model, just barely touching it created cracked glass. I thought it was a material defect in the glass. That's a great idea on the aluminum. I have been looking around for one and pricing it out, though I was thinking I would have Dave from Printed Solid get me a custom PEI sheet for it :)
@3D Printing Nerd I'm worried that a PEI sheet that big would bow in the middle if it isn't thick enough. 1m x 1m is crazy!! If you ever get an aluminum sheet, don't use it with the factory finish ... nothing will stick to it, too shiny and smooth, you'll need to rough it up with sandpaper or scotch bright pad. I have used the scotch pad with a 5lbs block of steel on it and use a fair amount of PVA glue (glue stick). At the moment I have aluminum covering half the printer at all times and only remove it when needed for large none PETG prints. I have different factory files for Simplify3D for the reduced print area for print head clearance.
Is it nicer to make it just a tiny bit bigger to beat XRobots, or nicer to beat him by a lot? I mean if he wanted to take the record back it could be possible with only a bit bigger compared to making it substantially bigger.
I've destroyed a borosilicate bed the same way with PETG, and it scarred me for life. Only cost me $80 to replace the bed, but at the time, it felt like $38,000.
At 9:10 The "transponders" are Motor encoders that can detect missed steps or of one is faster than the other and fix itself. We use them a lot in FRC to make sure we can do our Autonomous Functions correctly
rpavlik1 it’s a basic stepper motor with an encoder latched onto the back of the motor and it (i assume) sends the steps it counts to the main board and if they aren’t synced it will compensate
The machine DOES have auto bed leveling. Due to the time it takes to run through the bed leveling routine for this large of a print surface, it doesn't do it every time the printer runs - only when the operator determines it's necessary. The aluminum plate under the glass holds the surface pretty rigid, so it's not required between every print job.
Joel's printing ultra-low resolution models on it for some reason and scaling them up, I bet it would print fine if you exported something direct from a vector
@@arcadeuk for 38k you get wobbling of the whole gantry if it goes up, in my opinion thats unacceptable for any printer that costs more than 2k. I probably could make a better 1m3 printer that costs lot less, probably like 1-2k. How are they making it cost 38k not even a good cnc costs this much...
@@RomanoPRODUCTION That's a better printer for hobbyists. It's a terrible printer for businesses. For a business that needs a 1m x 1m build volume on an FDM 3d printer for whatever reason, your only other option is a Stratasys F900 and that costs way more. It isn't cost effective for a company to build their own giant 3d printer, troubleshoot it, and fiddle with it until they can get it to work. It's much cheaper to spend 38k on something that has tech support
Misread that at first as 'I bought a $38,000 3D printer', then read it correctly as 'I broke', then realized it's the same thing. You broke it, you bought it!
The first two test prints by Don were PETG on the bare glass and they were fine. He said they do PETG all the time without the Magigoo and it's fine at the office. The Magigoo was "if something doesn't stick well enough, use the Magigoo to help it stick."
Next time something is too good stuck to glass with 3d printing.... add water along the edge, with a few minuts it should losen it, if not try a bit to force loose and wait again for a few min, worked everything for me with PLA
That would be acceptable if he hadn't been doing this for years now... one would think there would be some "learning" going on and not repeating the same mistakes...
@@edwardpaulsen1074 yeah but Z offset leveling stuff is a mistake that can sneak in sometimes, you only need to forget to check that once and it might happen to you too lol
@@hyperfluff_folf There is a HUGE difference between "Z offset leveling" and printing PETG, which is *known* to sometimes stick to glass, on a super large area glass plate... not to mention just diving in on a brand new machine without going over the operation a few times... That's like getting a new lathe and just throwing a notoriously difficult metal on it without checking speeds, cutting tool, lubricants, and depth of cut and wondering why the tool shattered and damaged the machine...
@@edwardpaulsen1074 Man the other day I broke a nozzle (it was heated, I'm not that dumb) and I've been doing this soon to be 3 years now. The only difference between now and then is that I broke a nozzle on a Markforged printer. They want $1,700 to replace it, but my $20 screw extractor kit says otherwise.
Considering how warm it is outside, and the size of that build plate... a full set of Shoretrooper Armor seems like the only logical answer, and would be a great functional print.
@@aadvaithmandampully3279 well in essence its a big ass mirror. so just get a mirror cut, maybe a couple hundred? id bet the heater part of the bed is fine
You just invented a new mode, trash can mode. P.S. What in the heck are you running in your house (before this printer) that you need power distribution like I see behind you?
FDM and 38k, seems high priced, but I imagine parts at that size are tough to source, expensive, and need to be custom made. Petg always needs glue stick!
Even though I know what the first printers look like, this looks like it's one of the first printers ever made.. Like "Somedayyy.. there will be a 3d printer in every home. yea right, how is anyone going to fit this in their house? Through technology, it shall be scaled down to fit on a coffee table".
Umm.. you cant scale down that build volume to fit on a coffee table.. this isnt the Tardis.. People that need this volume will find a place to fit it. I know people with industrial bed lasers in their house. If there is a need for it, people find a way to make room for it.
@@thebooboo3269 honestly this is still small compared to some. There are people that have bigbox printers in their home and they can go up to 3 m cu print volume.
I would love to see a SCHOOL DESK for an elementary school student. 3D printers are now in a lot of younger kids classrooms and I think printing something they could relate to would be AWESOME!
just curious, with the glass bed breaking, did you let the whole bed cool down first? I had this happen twice to me before with a old printer from 2014 that used boro glass, both were with petg, and i was rushing and pulled the part from the bed when it was hot. I feel your pain, though my glass was 12x12 inches.
Exactly I just built a cnc machine that 1m by 1m and I can swap the spindle with a extruder and do Exactly what this 38k printer can do and it cost me a little under 3k but I can also cnc, 3D print and laser cut and my machine is built like a tank.
That was fun Joel! So cool to see you enjoying such an interesting machine. Some print ideas: Actual Joel sized Joelbot A full sized Tiki Bar including stools Use meshmixer or blender to turn a downloaded character model into a chair Large jigs to help you make other things Build a roto-caster that you could then 3D print a huge mold to then roto-cast sculptures, or set of matching furniture, etc. Print a TARTIS shaped cat or dog house.
I say that you could reprint most of the open RC car. Making it less multi-colored and less seams. You could also update the model to fit the bearings and axles better and any other changes.
FYI, machines in that scale use an Industrial CAN Bus protocol, such that no matter how large the machine, the motors will always be in sync. Still my wish that Marlin supports CAN
@@Inventorsquare Has to be something sealed closed, screw cap can be considered an open container. I'd transport these in the trunk to avoid issue, filled or empty.
For the pet-g not to damage the glass, set your printer to keep the bed at 70 degrees celsius after printing is finished. Then use a mixture of 50% ethyl alcohol and water on the bed and leave it for a few minutes, the alcohol will soften the base. printing making removal much easier. Never use alcohol in bed with a temperature below 60 degrees as it will certainly chip the glass .
I didn't really think about what could be printed on such a printer until I saw the Star Wars episode. I only just realized that you could print a pedal car body - like the pedal cars of the 60's for 3 year old kids. You could even print a replacement ride on vehicle body. Just imagine that your child says that they love a Ferrari, Camaro, Mustang, tank, or whatever. You could print the child the vehicle of their dreams to ride. Amazing stuff!
True. When you look at the unit Ivan Miranda built, this thing seems a bit overpriced... I mean solid metalworking and stuff, but wobbly Gantry, seriously?
Pfff just wait until you see the stratasys printers much smaller and more expensive yet they don't perform that much better than a home grade 3D printer.
This is the first time I’ve had PETG fuse to glass in all the times I’ve printed with PETG on bare glass. I just wish I would have learned this sooner :)
That filament path 😱 If the runout sensor let's the machine continue too long you'll have a mess of tangled filament covering the bed and possibly embedded in the part. Maybe consider a reverse bowden? I know I'm not thinking on the same level as the company who designed it though.
Regarding the Y axis motors, they're using closed-loop servos instead of steppers. That's a good choice for a machine of this size as you're dragging around a lot of mass and the probability that you'll skip steps is high. There's no synchronizing between the Y axis motors though. They're just two separate motors working off the same step and direction signals.
We have a 3DP 400 series at work and i use it almost daily for prototyping purposes, when printing with PETG i always use washable glue stick on the glass for adhesion and ease of removal. When parts are stuck to the glass just spray glass cleaner and let it dissolve the glue bit by bit.
@Don why waist your time with a mask if you stick your nose out and/or take it off later? Makes you look stupid as you either don't understand the issue or want to pretend you care.
He's only wearing that mask because his company requires it. The wearing of masks does nearly nothing to prevent the spread of diseases, unless it's an actual N95 mask. In fact, there is evidence showing that wearing such masks increases the likelihood of spreading it, or for the wearer to contract it. There are several videos out there proving how ineffective masks really are. Google it.
I've actually had similar issues. My fix for this is to wipe down the glass with heavily salted water, then wipe it dry. The print stays perfectly in place but there won't be any binding to the glass. Hope it helps, love the videos.
@@BlueCollarBachelor There seems to be evidence that a mask does appear to have an effect in reducing the amount of potentially infectious droplets leaving from the wearer.
The vase mode print would be a great light fixture shade. Print a cylinder to fit inside with cutouts making a design and then an LED strip hanging in the middle that would cast a shadow of the cutout design onto your vase mode print... COULD BE AWESOME! Add a motor to rotate the inner cylinder to have the shadow move... So there's your idea to step it up. GO...
PETG is known to fuse to glass beds. (I've gone through two myself) As a result, I avoid using glass beds and PETG whenever I can. (Spring steel and either PLA or ABS/ASA)
Oh my god! I didn’t catch on when you said the build plate was huge and “to take a good look because it wouldn’t be like this for long”😂 until I watched it the second time. Instant classic my friend.
Maybe printers should use Peltier's modules to heat up the bed and then cool it down after print so it would be easier to remove the print. When I couldn't revive a PET-G part from bed, putting it into freezer helped.
I love the growler caddy, what would be better than that? A growler caddy that even has seatbelt slots so you can add extra security making for an even better chance to get that precious cargo home. Personally, I have an insulated growler bag with a shoulder strap, that I hang over the headrest and then seatbelt in place.
I would really like to see some large prints for museum, Like a 1:1 of a velociraptor for a kids museum, or a scale Saturn V for a local air and space museum, or take the biggest printed human title and give the print to a local collage . That way everyone could have a chance to see the prints IRL, and you could make giant prints without having to worry about where you're going to put them when the video is over. Anyway as always great video, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next.
PETG does not need squish to stick like PLA or ABS. It would likely be beneficial to print on a raft and use an additional half of your extruder nozzle in Z height (or more) for the first layer. This is how I have printed on bare glass with minimal loss, but even doing this occasionally I have had PETG pull up slivers of glass. Using Kapton or even painters tape would help you save the glass, and with a pane that size I would definitely recommend it.
I didn't want to be restricted to a small printer build size so I bought the TRONXY X5SA 2E. 500mmx500mmx600mm. That one you have is a hell of a big printer. But what I found out fast is big prints use a lot of filament. Bigger printers cost more to operate as I was making larger prints. My first error was bed too close to the hot end and it flat ironed a large portion of the bed sheet. It eventually warped and hot end burned a hole. Switched to glass and is working ok. I never had one glued like that to the glass.
Aaaand that is why I don't print PETG on glass... It has a knack for fusing to the glass and taking chunks with it when released from the print bed. I prefer to use BuildTak or self-adhesive plastic print beds for PETG as they tend not to stick as hard, but still enough to do large prints and not have delamination issues.
It's borosilicate glass, aka Pyrex. You know, the stuff that you use in the oven. The temperature of the heated bed is a warm summer day to this stuff...
Happened to my buildplates in the ultimaker 2+ many times when using Extrudr pla. That filament welded everything together, removal impossible without damage on the plate. After i changed to fillamentum no problems since.
I did the exact same thing printing PETG straight onto glass, it apparently breaks it down. I ended up filling it with body filler (like bondo), sanding it down, and covering with blue tape. I kept using that bed until it finally snapped in two one day while taking a part off. I print on kapton + a thin layer of wood glue dissolved in water now.
Why don’t they make build plates out of brass? When it comes to temperature the print starts. The brass will be expanded from the heat. When the print is done the cool cycle starts causing the brass to contract releasing the part printed. Aluminum would work too but the grains in aluminum are rocky and might cause the aluminum to start forming a rough spot.
I've had PETG take out borosilicate glass multiple times, even when just cooling down without any babooning from my side. Just replace the borosilicate with float glass, it's a lot cheaper and because of the even heating on a printbed it works fine and it won't get a hole in it by just cooling. Of course when it is really stuck, you can always break it by hand, but for my CR10S5, a new float glass plate with rounded sides only costs me 10 bucks at the glass company around the corner, which is way better than more than 50 bucks for the original without shipping, which could arrive broken. When your print is stuck on borosilicate, pour some alcohol around it on the glass, after 10 minutes it can just come loose. When that doesn't work, just heat it up over the GT temp and slide it off.
In Joel's defense, I've broken one glass bed on a CR-10, using PLA. The funniest thing is that it was about 1/2 inch round at the base and allowed to cool. Maybe it was crappy glass as I've not run into this since. I print directly on glass with no adhesives whatsoever. My replacement cost me about $40 dollars. I don't want to imagine what a 1mx1m borosilicate glass bed costs!
I replaced the bed on my Ender 3 with a cheap piece of $3 glass cut at Lowes (9.25 inches squared). Every so often I break the bed by fusing a large print to it, but it only costs me $3 to replace the bed. To save me the inconvenience I started using glue stick on the bed, which acts like a release agent and works wonderful (even makes the first layer stick nicer).
Somehow, this material that's well known for inseparably bonding itself to bare glass has inseparably bonded itself to bare glass. Truly baffling!
It's like 2525 dark matter.
Incredible!
Even more baffling, it's the material provided by the vendor...
I've NEVER had PETG bond itself to bare glass before on the machines I've run it. It's always been tough to print because the first layer just wouldn't stick right. I've had PETG weld itself to PEI before, that one was fun...
I found myself wondering how much filament that chess piece took to make
We can't really judge the quality of this printer until we see a 1 meter long Benchy.
ha!
Brian Burton yes
Benchy could be 1.4m if printed diagonale
It's been done! I believe each color represents a 5lb spool of pla. th-cam.com/video/AUr0g2FXxGk/w-d-xo.html
I agree.. ALL printers are tested with Benchy.
Print a normal size benchy (no doubt it will look terrible with a nozzle that size)
Then print a massive one and put a motor and RC controls on it.
Printing a chair and seeing just how much weight it can hold would be so cool.
Good call, after that then maybe print an auditorium or a solar city, with the proper Slicr engine, and building permit.
I like the chair idea.
@@BBMando69 I watched a youtube yesterday of someone 3d printing a stool, and they had the description saying: today i'm going to 3d print a stool.
They used dowel to connect the seat to the stools legs, and it was printed so fast that the infill settings were not that durable, and i mentioned that they better be very safe with that or they could end up either in the hospital or the coroners office if they shifted their weight while sitting on that stool if they forget that its not the safest design they created.
Furniture printing should not be compromized with no cutting corners in the safety redundancy dept.
Something to consider if anyone wants to print a chair, so they dont end up in a wheelchair for life or worse without life.
The-Digital-Lifeguard-Project-_-
#SafetyFirst
How about a small stool? Like from Harbor Freight.
@@truetech4158 You may joke, but one day soon there will be houses that were fully constructed and furnished to a habitable level in a shockingly short time by a fleet of trailers containing a bunch of 3D printers and feed stock. We can already print large structures in concrete, it would be easy to add dual extrusion of expanding insulation foam to that machine, and Laser Metal Deposition is progressing rapidly to the point where we can print structural-grade parts in various alloys without a need for post-processing. Ten years at most, I'd wager, until we see a functional fully 3D printed home.
Seems like that bed surface is in desperate need of changing... like a huge PEI springsteel sheet maybe? Expensive yes, but it's already 38K!
Next video: "i broke a $38.000... again" ahahah
3/16 also seems really thin for that size. I'd think 1/4 or 5/16 minimum. But Joel come on I know you like to play the dumb consumer to test user friendliness but this is a commercial machine with a pricetag to match. You had to know that was going to happen when you printed directly on glass with petg.
If Disney has broken it 4 times already as well, that sounds like there are settings or prints to avoid. Feels like certain materials/temps when mixed with a large enough first layer create too much adhesion
Not without glue or hairspray between the PETG and the PEI sheet.
that's the joke ;)
Isn't PETG one of those things you do not print directly on glass
I print in glass whith spray hair very , very well, to remove the object yuo just need to wait to cold down, then came up gently
It's pretty well known as a material that's best not printed onto bare glass. It's pretty much universally recommend from most reputable sources that a barrier layer of some sort is best practice.
need glue stick, hair spray, or blue tape.
yes this is common knowledge. Martin with Wintergaten had the same problem. I am surprised Joel didn't know this.
I print PETG on glass all the time (it's the only thing I print wthi and on). No problem at all if you just let it cool down.
Dinosaur bones then bury them all over town.
But leave a small text on it for the archeologist that might be called when they are found lol
In Naturalis (a nature history museum in the Netherlands) They have a large printer (Don't know the brand, but it's definetly a different one) to print missing bones for their dinosaur skeletons
$38k machine comes with magigoo
Joel: hmm, it's only 38k, i'll wing it without
What’s magigoo?
@@mathew66 Google can probably explain that to you my friend
Luke J so could u my friend. But what evs
you can buy a icon 3d house maker with that price smh
“Magigoo 3D Printing Adhesives offer a great way for ensuring your prints stick perfectly to the build plate, even when printing with more challenging materials like nylon, polypropylene, or polycarbonate.” :p
PETG: 'is known for welding itself to glass'
Joel: Doo dee, dum da lee, first thing I print will be PETG
Was thinking 'hope he set zoffset for petg' 😭
Thats why he welded to the pei also too close.
Oh and Yes totally print a throne to sit in and watch prints!
Even better, they gave him petg to use
Am I the only one who sang the whole thing like it was some jingle?
Did exactly the same on a Mega-s, started using PETG (and glue) and managed to rip a fissure up the middle of the build plate! 😳
This, Joel, THIS is the printer to turn out a GIANT rubber band rocket from your ladt Fan Mail Friday¡! It would be glorious!!!! Do it! Do it! Doooooooo it!
To the man who is courageous enough to reveal his mistakes and lessons learned along the way... I salute you. 🤗
While I agree that Joel seems to be a nice guy being honest about his mistakes (hard to say without knowing him in person, but that’s my impression from his videos) - having the printer and not making a video would certainly be a problem for any creator and most creators would have made some kind of video.
I’m still confused. What was the mistake? How was it preventable?I would have liked to hear this.
@@SoylentSax only meant it's commendable of him keeping it real, by pointing out the crack that happened in the glass print bed and how the jug holder fused to the flexible print bed. As opposed to say, for example, simply covering over the crack with the flexible build plate and not stating the (literal) underlying issue going on underneath. To be honest, a $38K machine purchase outright is far beyond the means many folks have available at the moment to begin with, but rather than simply "keep up appearances" he has a great way of remaining relatable, even the casual hobbyist, by pointing out that things CAN go wrong. I, for one, have appreciate that about his vlogging style thus far. 🤗
@@SoylentSax I believe I've heard petg isn't supposed to be printed on bare glass because of the effect that Joel saw and it's recommended that one uses blue tape or a removable surface to print on. never printed in petg though so I may be confusing it with a different material
SoylentSax I think it’s the fact that he broke the glass when removing the pawn.
Joel has magic touch for breaking things
But not like Linus
@@katherinemorton9126 Linus Droptest has become official testing standard nowadays for electronics. Manufacturers use it by sending things to Linus :)
Maybe a huge sand castle? You know the one you would fill with sand. 😁
I just call that having a hand of adult but excitement of a toddler. Must touch everything!!!!!
A complete set of Stormtrooper armor, all in one print!
I was going to suggest some kind of armour, Stormtrooper, Mando or Iron man.
A affordable self driving powered exoskeleton of sorts, to help people walk again or for the first time.
Maybe he can just seat still on the build plate, and let the printer print the armor around him
or giant ass bionicle masks
Yes! OMG THE IRON MAN ARMOR!! Its finally a big enough printer to one piece it! The helmet wouldn't need gluing, it could be printed as is! The biggest pain was gluing it all together when it was done, and the glue breaking, etc. Dude...while you've got it, iron man armor!
Why does this $38,000 Industrial, 3D printer NOT have a removable build plate and ABL?
Because a printer like this probably has a department dedicated to running it and its peers?
Removable build plate at that size may be heavy and maybe unpractical but lack on abl is unforgivable
@@rpavlik1 thats the suckiest argument ive ever seen :)
@@rpavlik1 No, just no, why would you make it so that a whole department has to exist purely to run a 3D printer? There are soo many design oversights on this printer, to the point that I would say it's not even suitable to be produced.
@@timomiller569 But still, glass? Really? And regular, super thin glass at that. Could have done PEI or buildtak or something!
Hi Joel!
We use an older version of that printer at work and had the same outcome with PETG. Went we have to print PETG, we use a sheet of MIC6 1/4" aluminum on top of the glass with a custom start script to take into account the extra thickness in Simplify3D.
G1 Z6.8 F100
G92 Z0
6.8mm is the thickness of the sheet we got.
PETG seems to create micro-fractures in the glass when printing large models.
So THAT is what happened. I figured it was something like that. When I went to remove the pawn model, just barely touching it created cracked glass. I thought it was a material defect in the glass. That's a great idea on the aluminum. I have been looking around for one and pricing it out, though I was thinking I would have Dave from Printed Solid get me a custom PEI sheet for it :)
@3D Printing Nerd I'm worried that a PEI sheet that big would bow in the middle if it isn't thick enough. 1m x 1m is crazy!!
If you ever get an aluminum sheet, don't use it with the factory finish ... nothing will stick to it, too shiny and smooth, you'll need to rough it up with sandpaper or scotch bright pad. I have used the scotch pad with a 5lbs block of steel on it and use a fair amount of PVA glue (glue stick).
At the moment I have aluminum covering half the printer at all times and only remove it when needed for large none PETG prints. I have different factory files for Simplify3D for the reduced print area for print head clearance.
Break the record and make it count. Go big or go home. Making a scaled version of yourself would be awesome too but bigger is better
a 1:1 scale.
Joel 2.0 😉
Is it nicer to make it just a tiny bit bigger to beat XRobots, or nicer to beat him by a lot? I mean if he wanted to take the record back it could be possible with only a bit bigger compared to making it substantially bigger.
I've destroyed a borosilicate bed the same way with PETG, and it scarred me for life. Only cost me $80 to replace the bed, but at the time, it felt like $38,000.
BCN3D?
I want to see a reaction video of you telling them that you broke the bed glass on the first print due to not using a release agent with PETG
That is likely the crappiest 38,000 dollar machine I have seen.
Yeah, kinda surprised they didn't include a spring steel sheet.
At 9:10 The "transponders" are Motor encoders that can detect missed steps or of one is faster than the other and fix itself. We use them a lot in FRC to make sure we can do our Autonomous Functions correctly
So does this mean these are closed loop servos? Or just slightly fancier steppers and drivers? (Eg trinamic can detect missed steps)
rpavlik1 it’s a basic stepper motor with an encoder latched onto the back of the motor and it (i assume) sends the steps it counts to the main board and if they aren’t synced it will compensate
@Nintendo Kid Hero's Of Tomorrow? Team 67? Im Tean 6722 LED Robotics
3d Breaking Nerd
And then there was the breaking for lunch after he broke the machine though had some help, though that seemed it was affordably intentional.
Haha, I was thinking about that new name too!
Seems really expensive for what it is. Not even an auto leveling bed
similar thought. look at the cable management on the print head
I thought the same thing. For $35,000 I would expect at least the features of a Prusa.
Non planar version design.
The machine DOES have auto bed leveling. Due to the time it takes to run through the bed leveling routine for this large of a print surface, it doesn't do it every time the printer runs - only when the operator determines it's necessary. The aluminum plate under the glass holds the surface pretty rigid, so it's not required between every print job.
If i had a printer of this size i will print a 10kg benchy just as a king of benchy
Yes, a Very Very Big Benchy. And you can try to make it sail on a lake 😉
We Have!! The thing is really heavy and floats just not very well.
even a multi part functional benchy. with like a 5hp trolling motor.
Benchy is too top heavy... even the smallest wave will make it flip over.
@@schbrownie04 use the smart infil, so the top is lightened. adapt. overcome.
This seems like a huge waste, print quality honestly isn't that great for 38k kind of disappointing
Joel's printing ultra-low resolution models on it for some reason and scaling them up, I bet it would print fine if you exported something direct from a vector
@@arcadeuk for 38k you get wobbling of the whole gantry if it goes up, in my opinion thats unacceptable for any printer that costs more than 2k. I probably could make a better 1m3 printer that costs lot less, probably like 1-2k. How are they making it cost 38k not even a good cnc costs this much...
I guess Ivan Miranda has made a better large printer
@@RomanoPRODUCTION Absolutely and its mostly 3d Printed and costed probably less than 500 Euros.
@@RomanoPRODUCTION That's a better printer for hobbyists. It's a terrible printer for businesses. For a business that needs a 1m x 1m build volume on an FDM 3d printer for whatever reason, your only other option is a Stratasys F900 and that costs way more. It isn't cost effective for a company to build their own giant 3d printer, troubleshoot it, and fiddle with it until they can get it to work. It's much cheaper to spend 38k on something that has tech support
Misread that at first as 'I bought a $38,000 3D printer', then read it correctly as 'I broke', then realized it's the same thing. You broke it, you bought it!
Wait, they provided PETG for a machine with a giant glass bed?
Did they give you any instructions for prepping the glass before printing?
Crisco...
Joel said in the video that it came with Magigoo... it just didn't get used on the first print...
The first two test prints by Don were PETG on the bare glass and they were fine. He said they do PETG all the time without the Magigoo and it's fine at the office. The Magigoo was "if something doesn't stick well enough, use the Magigoo to help it stick."
@@3DPrintingNerd I would venture to say that they likely didn't print things with that much surface area right in the middle of the bed...
@@edwardpaulsen1074 They have!
Next time something is too good stuck to glass with 3d printing.... add water along the edge, with a few minuts it should losen it, if not try a bit to force loose and wait again for a few min, worked everything for me with PLA
Don't worry Joel, everyone who is new to 3d printing. breaks something when removing a PETG print 😂🤣😂🤣
That would be acceptable if he hadn't been doing this for years now... one would think there would be some "learning" going on and not repeating the same mistakes...
@@edwardpaulsen1074 yeah but Z offset leveling stuff is a mistake that can sneak in sometimes, you only need to forget to check that once and it might happen to you too lol
I havent broke anything yet on my ender 3 pro, but im sure it is soon to happen
@@hyperfluff_folf There is a HUGE difference between "Z offset leveling" and printing PETG, which is *known* to sometimes stick to glass, on a super large area glass plate... not to mention just diving in on a brand new machine without going over the operation a few times... That's like getting a new lathe and just throwing a notoriously difficult metal on it without checking speeds, cutting tool, lubricants, and depth of cut and wondering why the tool shattered and damaged the machine...
@@edwardpaulsen1074 Man the other day I broke a nozzle (it was heated, I'm not that dumb) and I've been doing this soon to be 3 years now. The only difference between now and then is that I broke a nozzle on a Markforged printer. They want $1,700 to replace it, but my $20 screw extractor kit says otherwise.
Considering how warm it is outside, and the size of that build plate... a full set of Shoretrooper Armor seems like the only logical answer, and would be a great functional print.
I remember Simon from RClifeOn 3D printed himself with a 1*1*1m 3D printer.
Also, are they mad about the bed breaking? o.o
I guess so if it's a 38,000 dollar printer on rent
I wonder how much the print bed cost?
@@aadvaithmandampully3279 well in essence its a big ass mirror. so just get a mirror cut, maybe a couple hundred? id bet the heater part of the bed is fine
Big difference, RClifeOn can 3d print. 3DPnerd can`t
You just invented a new mode, trash can mode. P.S. What in the heck are you running in your house (before this printer) that you need power distribution like I see behind you?
Why my rule of Thumb is ALWAYS PUT PVA on the Bed. Protects that Bed, even a $38,000 bed.
Please continue with that 400% OpenRC F1! And do not forget add chanell for an actual brake! :-) (Greetings from Prague)
Maybe I'm an asshole for saying it but: wearing a facemask while leaving the nose uncovered nullifies the reason to wear a facemask...
:) twitter.com/JAYTEEAU/status/1289921057114034176
Print an absurdly gigantic surprise egg. Tests mechanical precision, and its a maniacally enormous egg toy.
Make a huge litophane moon with that monster.
or a death star " that's no moon it's a space station"
full size master chief armour, no assembly required! The torso bit will be interesting!
I support this decision.
FDM and 38k, seems high priced, but I imagine parts at that size are tough to source, expensive, and need to be custom made. Petg always needs glue stick!
Wow I didn't know that you should break a 38,000 dollar printer!
You make awesome video's Joel!
I want MiniJoel as .. 150% upscale from lifesized one :)
Whatever you print, print something that helps someone. Low cost home construction? Be great!
Even though I know what the first printers look like, this looks like it's one of the first printers ever made.. Like "Somedayyy.. there will be a 3d printer in every home. yea right, how is anyone going to fit this in their house? Through technology, it shall be scaled down to fit on a coffee table".
Umm.. you cant scale down that build volume to fit on a coffee table.. this isnt the Tardis.. People that need this volume will find a place to fit it. I know people with industrial bed lasers in their house. If there is a need for it, people find a way to make room for it.
It already can this is a massive printer they get pretty small compared to this one
@@thebooboo3269 honestly this is still small compared to some. There are people that have bigbox printers in their home and they can go up to 3 m cu print volume.
I would love to see a SCHOOL DESK for an elementary school student. 3D printers are now in a lot of younger kids classrooms and I think printing something they could relate to would be AWESOME!
just curious, with the glass bed breaking, did you let the whole bed cool down first?
I had this happen twice to me before with a old printer from 2014 that used boro glass, both were with petg, and i was rushing and pulled the part from the bed when it was hot.
I feel your pain, though my glass was 12x12 inches.
Aww man, you could almost print a to scale Minecraft block on it.
2000$ for printer parts, 1000$ for workbench, 35000$ for what?
Exactly I just built a cnc machine that 1m by 1m and I can swap the spindle with a extruder and do Exactly what this 38k printer can do and it cost me a little under 3k but I can also cnc, 3D print and laser cut and my machine is built like a tank.
Tech support and warranty
That was fun Joel! So cool to see you enjoying such an interesting machine.
Some print ideas:
Actual Joel sized Joelbot
A full sized Tiki Bar including stools
Use meshmixer or blender to turn a downloaded character model into a chair
Large jigs to help you make other things
Build a roto-caster that you could then 3D print a huge mold to then roto-cast sculptures, or set of matching furniture, etc.
Print a TARTIS shaped cat or dog house.
Break the record or some type of cosplay armour, perhaps work with Bill to design one for you.
How about a huge castle with walls going around the hole?
If you're going to try to break the world record four largest 3D print of a human go For Broke print the Colossus of Rhodes.
I say that you could reprint most of the open RC car. Making it less multi-colored and less seams. You could also update the model to fit the bearings and axles better and any other changes.
I read the title and i cried a bit..
FYI, machines in that scale use an Industrial CAN Bus protocol, such that no matter how large the machine, the motors will always be in sync.
Still my wish that Marlin supports CAN
So you can drive around with beer on the front seat of your car?
Unopened, officer.
@@Inventorsquare Has to be something sealed closed, screw cap can be considered an open container. I'd transport these in the trunk to avoid issue, filled or empty.
R J Oh yeah, I forgot it was a refill.
For the pet-g not to damage the glass, set your printer to keep the bed at 70 degrees celsius after printing is finished. Then use a mixture of 50% ethyl alcohol and water on the bed and leave it for a few minutes, the alcohol will soften the base. printing making removal much easier. Never use alcohol in bed with a temperature below 60 degrees as it will certainly chip the glass .
"it ships with magigoo"
D'OH
I didn't really think about what could be printed on such a printer until I saw the Star Wars episode. I only just realized that you could print a pedal car body - like the pedal cars of the 60's for 3 year old kids. You could even print a replacement ride on vehicle body.
Just imagine that your child says that they love a Ferrari, Camaro, Mustang, tank, or whatever. You could print the child the vehicle of their dreams to ride. Amazing stuff!
Wearing a mask below the nose is the same as not wearing a mask at all.
i'd be so frustrated if i broke the glass on my firs print! awesome machine!
that machine is overpriced. plain and simple.
True. When you look at the unit Ivan Miranda built, this thing seems a bit overpriced...
I mean solid metalworking and stuff, but wobbly Gantry, seriously?
Pfff just wait until you see the stratasys printers much smaller and more expensive yet they don't perform that much better than a home grade 3D printer.
Have found the best way to stop PETG permanently bonding with the build plate is to simply print the first layer at a much lower temp. Works for me
Joel: Should I print the thing?
Me: Print ALL the things!
You made a Mandalorian helmet. Now make the rest of the suit.
It just looks like the glass is trash. It should thicker, considering how expensive the printer is.
He should have known better. PETG isn't supposed to be printed directly on glass because it will fuse as it did in the video.
This is the first time I’ve had PETG fuse to glass in all the times I’ve printed with PETG on bare glass. I just wish I would have learned this sooner :)
@@3DPrintingNerd Are they going to send a new glass bed? It would be cool to see something gigantic being printed.
That filament path 😱
If the runout sensor let's the machine continue too long you'll have a mess of tangled filament covering the bed and possibly embedded in the part. Maybe consider a reverse bowden? I know I'm not thinking on the same level as the company who designed it though.
very strange to print directly on the glass, did you read the manual? i think your warranty it's over! :)
Regarding the Y axis motors, they're using closed-loop servos instead of steppers. That's a good choice for a machine of this size as you're dragging around a lot of mass and the probability that you'll skip steps is high. There's no synchronizing between the Y axis motors though. They're just two separate motors working off the same step and direction signals.
Hairy Lion (again!)
We have a 3DP 400 series at work and i use it almost daily for prototyping purposes, when printing with PETG i always use washable glue stick on the glass for adhesion and ease of removal. When parts are stuck to the glass just spray glass cleaner and let it dissolve the glue bit by bit.
@Don why waist your time with a mask if you stick your nose out and/or take it off later? Makes you look stupid as you either don't understand the issue or want to pretend you care.
He's only wearing that mask because his company requires it. The wearing of masks does nearly nothing to prevent the spread of diseases, unless it's an actual N95 mask. In fact, there is evidence showing that wearing such masks increases the likelihood of spreading it, or for the wearer to contract it. There are several videos out there proving how ineffective masks really are. Google it.
I've actually had similar issues. My fix for this is to wipe down the glass with heavily salted water, then wipe it dry. The print stays perfectly in place but there won't be any binding to the glass. Hope it helps, love the videos.
Life sized Joel?
I love that all three axis are screw driven. Belts are so frustrating and I don't think they have as much accuracy.
Fun fact, a mask doesn't work if you don't cover the nose!
You could have left off the last 6 words.
@@BlueCollarBachelor Your parent should've used french letters
The Reverend oh your one of those...right, copy.
@@BlueCollarBachelor There seems to be evidence that a mask does appear to have an effect in reducing the amount of potentially infectious droplets leaving from the wearer.
@@ManIkWeet theres evidence the other way too. It's a mess. Pick one and go with it.
The vase mode print would be a great light fixture shade. Print a cylinder to fit inside with cutouts making a design and then an LED strip hanging in the middle that would cast a shadow of the cutout design onto your vase mode print... COULD BE AWESOME! Add a motor to rotate the inner cylinder to have the shadow move... So there's your idea to step it up. GO...
PETG is known to fuse to glass beds. (I've gone through two myself) As a result, I avoid using glass beds and PETG whenever I can. (Spring steel and either PLA or ABS/ASA)
Oh my god! I didn’t catch on when you said the build plate was huge and “to take a good look because it wouldn’t be like this for long”😂 until I watched it the second time. Instant classic my friend.
Maybe printers should use Peltier's modules to heat up the bed and then cool it down after print so it would be easier to remove the print. When I couldn't revive a PET-G part from bed, putting it into freezer helped.
I love the growler caddy, what would be better than that? A growler caddy that even has seatbelt slots so you can add extra security making for an even better chance to get that precious cargo home. Personally, I have an insulated growler bag with a shoulder strap, that I hang over the headrest and then seatbelt in place.
I would really like to see some large prints for museum, Like a 1:1 of a velociraptor for a kids museum, or a scale Saturn V for a local air and space museum, or take the biggest printed human title and give the print to a local collage . That way everyone could have a chance to see the prints IRL, and you could make giant prints without having to worry about where you're going to put them when the video is over. Anyway as always great video, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next.
You could print a full-size R2D2 with this machine. Tackle that one!
PETG does not need squish to stick like PLA or ABS. It would likely be beneficial to print on a raft and use an additional half of your extruder nozzle in Z height (or more) for the first layer. This is how I have printed on bare glass with minimal loss, but even doing this occasionally I have had PETG pull up slivers of glass. Using Kapton or even painters tape would help you save the glass, and with a pane that size I would definitely recommend it.
Blue tape, @3DPrintingLlama approves. 👍
Filling the build volume would take like 3 months
Where'd you get that giant cube in the yard?
Use watered down PVA on the glass it will release easier and if it doesn't you can use water as a release agent I use PVA on my Ender 5 glass bed.
I didn't want to be restricted to a small printer build size so I bought the TRONXY X5SA 2E. 500mmx500mmx600mm. That one you have is a hell of a big printer. But what I found out fast is big prints use a lot of filament. Bigger printers cost more to operate as I was making larger prints. My first error was bed too close to the hot end and it flat ironed a large portion of the bed sheet. It eventually warped and hot end burned a hole. Switched to glass and is working ok. I never had one glued like that to the glass.
...he printed a cup holder for beer.
Aaaand that is why I don't print PETG on glass... It has a knack for fusing to the glass and taking chunks with it when released from the print bed. I prefer to use BuildTak or self-adhesive plastic print beds for PETG as they tend not to stick as hard, but still enough to do large prints and not have delamination issues.
how can a company put glass on a heated bed if heat affects the glass properties....for some reason glass makers let it cool down slowly for days....
It's borosilicate glass, aka Pyrex. You know, the stuff that you use in the oven. The temperature of the heated bed is a warm summer day to this stuff...
@@JamieStuff pyrex you know , does not break like that....
print a castle, usually the ones i have seen have to be printed in segments and it would be cool to see one printed big and whole
as a consumer/hobbyist I can only print Pi and or arduino cases.. what about a full (mini?)ATX computer case eh? 😉
Happened to my buildplates in the ultimaker 2+ many times when using Extrudr pla. That filament welded everything together, removal impossible without damage on the plate.
After i changed to fillamentum no problems since.
I did the exact same thing printing PETG straight onto glass, it apparently breaks it down. I ended up filling it with body filler (like bondo), sanding it down, and covering with blue tape. I kept using that bed until it finally snapped in two one day while taking a part off. I print on kapton + a thin layer of wood glue dissolved in water now.
I would say, go for the world record, what's the biggest single whole part of the RC car, you can print
Why don’t they make build plates out of brass? When it comes to temperature the print starts. The brass will be expanded from the heat. When the print is done the cool cycle starts causing the brass to contract releasing the part printed. Aluminum would work too but the grains in aluminum are rocky and might cause the aluminum to start forming a rough spot.
I love the filament manufacturer request I don't want to know how fast that printer can chew through filament
I’d like to thank you I’ve been watching your videos for awhile and they’re very useful...
Thank you!
I've had PETG take out borosilicate glass multiple times, even when just cooling down without any babooning from my side.
Just replace the borosilicate with float glass, it's a lot cheaper and because of the even heating on a printbed it works fine and it won't get a hole in it by just cooling. Of course when it is really stuck, you can always break it by hand, but for my CR10S5, a new float glass plate with rounded sides only costs me 10 bucks at the glass company around the corner, which is way better than more than 50 bucks for the original without shipping, which could arrive broken.
When your print is stuck on borosilicate, pour some alcohol around it on the glass, after 10 minutes it can just come loose. When that doesn't work, just heat it up over the GT temp and slide it off.
In Joel's defense, I've broken one glass bed on a CR-10, using PLA. The funniest thing is that it was about 1/2 inch round at the base and allowed to cool. Maybe it was crappy glass as I've not run into this since. I print directly on glass with no adhesives whatsoever. My replacement cost me about $40 dollars. I don't want to imagine what a 1mx1m borosilicate glass bed costs!
I replaced the bed on my Ender 3 with a cheap piece of $3 glass cut at Lowes (9.25 inches squared).
Every so often I break the bed by fusing a large print to it, but it only costs me $3 to replace the bed.
To save me the inconvenience I started using glue stick on the bed, which acts like a release agent and works wonderful (even makes the first layer stick nicer).
Thought it was common knowledge that PETG should not be printed on bare glass. Well, now you know.