I named my kitten after Jörmungandr. Before I even knew I was getting a cat, whenever I would meditate I would always end up with that section of Thor trying to lift the cat. The first time I saw my cat, he looked at me, put his tail in his mouth, and the name stuck as we found out he likes the bathtub. Once he’s done growing I’m going to make a cat bed out of a globe, much to only my amusement it seems. 😂
The idea of Jörmungandr as a protector of nature and thereby also an indirect protector of mankind really resonates, especially in this day and age. Mankind left completely unchecked will just devour nature until there is nothing left, and without nature we can't survive to begin with.
I agree with you. I believe that Loki and his children are not evil. I work with Hel; some may say she is evil, but I say she cares far more than people think she does and for both the dead and the living. What we humans see as evil today is influenced by the rise of Christianity in the first century AD.
I think it’s an intentionally ambiguous thing on the part of the Eddas. The children of Loki were not monsters until they were prophesied to be such, feared, and abused, untimately driving them to become monsters and fulfill the Ragnarok prophecy. I think Fenrir’s story is especially exemplary of this.
As a heathen who mainly worships Loki, I like to believe that his offspring represent both change and balance, just as he does in myths, so this take seems really close to my beliefs. Great video as always!
@@King-Fairhair The Odin Force is a vast cosmic power granted to Allfathers of the Asgardians in Marvel comics. The Odin Force doesn't exist in our mythology. It's a creation of Marvel comics writers.
As someone who works in shark conservation and is a pagan, Jormungandr has a very special place in my heart💙 he truly represents the dark side of nature that actually is what gives life and holds balance! Besides, the demonization of trickster deities (Loki isn’t the only one that gets this treatment…) is such an odd concept to begin with because they are the ones that always put things into motion. Good or bad, nothing happens without going through the trickster first!
Okay, I need "All Cats have a greater than 0% chance of being Jormungandr" on something STAT. I've worked with Jormungandr a LOT. I have a specific meditation with him about sinking into his coils for comfort and protection. I also invoke him as part of circle casting, literally asking him to encircle my ritual space as a protective barrier. Love the work you did in this vid! It's good to hear another Heathen who has a similar take on my favorite danger noodle!
I really like this idea and it sounds like the right one to me too, now that i've listened to this video. It also makes it a symbolic warning that Thor dealt the deathblow. Thor, the defender of mankind, represents humans, kills Jormungandr, who represents nature, for then to die shortly after. If humans kills nature, it wouldn't take long for humans to die out shortly after.
I love these stories. Here, people ride lightning bolts and serpents curl around the world in protective embrace. All of it cast across our thoughts in light and shadow. A tale told by fireside from somewhere long ago. Food for my soul, if soul there be. Down to the marrow, thank you, Ocean.
Amazing video as always, its nice to see the children of Loki talked about in a positive light and not straight up Satanized. And my new favorite Ocean line is in this video
Is it "Jormy the Stormy Wormy did a squirmy and then Thor killed him. What now? What. Now??? I'm a skald so fuck you thats what"? cause that's my favorite now lmao
As the token Jörm worshipper in my heathen circle, I can't even express how much I love this video. Hit the nail right on the head and even gave me some more to think about wrt the norse having more cause to favor Thor due to their context. My own UPG has also associated Jörmundangr with labradorite stones because they shimmer like how his scales are described, and can often be found in a tear drop/scale like shape. Thanks for your work as always! 🌊🐍
So I have a question for you, I've always been a heathen in a way but only just started highly embracing it in the last year or so and I worship mostly nature, I am a worshipper of freyja but I would like to know, how would I worship jormungandr?
Where is it described that his scales shine like labradorite? I have always affiliated it with him, even seen him with such scales in my dreams but never actually read anything thaat indicated that.
The three children of Loki have always been some of my favorite stories. Your videos bring so much to them that I could see myself having a meal with them as people. Thank you.
Awesome video, Ocean, in the full depth of that word. Once again, you've expanded my ideas of what my practice can contain. I've never seen any reason to exclude jötnar or other 'taboo' entities in my worship, but I never had much reasoning to include Jormungandr until right freaking now. It makes so much sense the way you've put this. I thank you so much for your deep dives on the more villainized dieties of the heathen world. You're the best, Ocean, keep up the good work.
That look when Ocean knows just how bad what he's about to say is...followed up by another fantastic video! And have I mentioned how much I love the editor's rapid comments? Ale Yeah!
Thanks for all the work you've put into this and all the figures seen as 'evil'. I love the nuance that you provide and why they're all worthy of worship even if they historically weren't.
Ocean you are such a fucking gift to us! Ive been trying to reconcile the kennings that suggest both Thor and Jorm are protectors of Midgard for a bit. As someone who also has all the "stormy boys" on his altar your interpretation of protective powers in tension is my making my morning.
This is an amazing video, Ocean. Similar to Fenrir, Jormungandr is a deity I've been drawn to in the past, and even empathised with. At the same time, I've never considered including him in my hearth cult. Your interpretation might have just changed my mind, however, and given me reason to explore that idea for myself. Thanks for putting this video out!
Thank you for the amazing, informative video. Examining Jormungandr as nature's wrath gave me reason to pause. I recently had a minor revelation that there is potential for many folklore 'monsters' or 'demons' or whathaveyou to have been miscast in human tales as they were quite possibly just defending themselves, their homes, the things they care for. This goes for more than Norse beliefs.
Great video! For Jormungandr the thing that had always resonated for me was that he wrapped around Midgard, which I viewed in a sense as holding the world together. This take is fitting to how I felt about Jormungander but didn't have words for. It is fitting that Thor represents humanity with how destructive he can be at times. And I totally see jormungander similar to nature in the sense that it is massive and would feel immovable as a whole. Also when humanity has done enough damage and it did finally raise its head against you... bad news bears.
Love the video! I like this concept of Jormungandr as the Jotun version of Thor, a protector of his realm. It also works well with the concept of Loki as a god of balance, trying to ensure neither the Aesir nor the Jotuns gain too much power. All of Loki's children fill this kind of role, it seems to me. Thank you for continuing to broaden our minds when it comes to the gods!
Ragnarok is a self fulfilling prophecy. The Aesir treated damn near everyone as a potential threat, decided to deal with the problem by launching pre-emptive strikes, then act surprised and outraged when the Nine Realms finally retaliate.
My thoughts: Godzilla is a modern Jormungandr. 1) giant reptile 2) lives in the ocean 3) direct response to human impact on environment 4) poison breath : radioactive breath. As BOC said, "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man..." Also, "Oh no, Thor says he's got to go, go go Jormungandr!"
I honestly love your approach to video making. Not many other pagan content creators dive so throughly into the nuance of Heathenry and its mythology. And that nuance is just another reason I love this faith and community so much. I always come away from your videos with a new perspective that I never even thought of. The Christian concept of the Nephilim and their apparent similarity to the Norse concept of the Jotnar isn’t lost on me. I honestly love reading the Bible(including, and maybe even especially, its “lost” books) like I read pagan mythology now, it’s so much more enjoyable and appreciate-able if you don’t look at it like how Christians often tell you to read it and just look at it like any other collection of religious or spiritual mythology. I’ve even seen people propose that the Nephilim themselves could be a bastardization/demonization of Canaanite nobility or the children of an Israelite parent and a Canaanite parent, a forbidden union under the Mosaic law. So naturally, the Bible/Torah would demonize them. Also… if some Heathens got together and formed an Earth, Wind, and Fire tribute/cover band… don’t you think it’d be named Jorðr, Kari, and Logi? :P 🍁🕺🪩🍂
This is an amazing video and has shed a new light on a deity that I had never considered in any way benevolent. Of course, because "baggage Jesus." This has prompted me to give Jormungandr some props. Thank you!
I remember being first introduced to Jormungandr through "The Book of Sea Monsters" by Eggleton and Suckling. For some reason though, the writer describes the Midgard Serpent as a She. In any case, the myths surrounding the Great World Serpent has fascinated me enough to incorporate Him / Her in my stories.
He's always described with masculine language in Old Norse, so I dunno where the "she" came from.🤔 Then again, these sort of errors happen a lot in less scholarly circles. 😅
@@coregoon Well it was a book about sea monsters, not the Norse myths in general, at any rate. Soon as I had access to the actual myths I noticed the discrepancy. In any case when Jormungandr features in my stories, the gender depends on who is talking about the serpent.
I never thought of Jormungandr like this. I didn't think of him as anything other than a constant obstacle for Thor. Honestly, this makes a lot more sense to me. Great video. 🙂
I liked the distinction between active and passive myths in relation to what is relevant to what people are dealing with in the here-and-now. It is an important point to bring up, especially with the idea of living traditions.
The description of Jormungandr as a "shining serpent" is quite interesting, because the same description is used for Leviathan, as well as his older identity, Lotan iirc. Honestly, if the Chaos Serpents represent the opposite of the archetypal sky father's "virtues", then they can't be that bad. Especially my namesake, given who he stood against.
I love it. Thank you for this, Ocean. This is beyond refreshing, and I hope it helps more people see Jormungandr, along with Loki and his other children, in a new light.
I've been Heathen for almost a decade, and I've never once viewed Jörmundgandr in this way, but after watching this video and considering it thorougly over the course of a few days, I can't help but agree completely. Very rarely does someone present their argument in such a way that radically changes my view of a deity in such a complete way. And while I never believed that Jörmundgandr was evil, I never worshipped him, but now you can bet that I'll be breaking out my woodcarving set and adding Jörmundgandr to my altar.
I worship Fenrir and Loki, but haven't thought of worshipping or honoring Jormundgrandr in my practice due to my dislike for water. However, after this video, I'm considering. Even if it's ever so often, leaving him an offering as well as his sister, Hel.
Snake on the astral plane. Okay but for real though, good shit boss. Not gonna lie, been loving the amount of revivalist shit and myth looking at in these last few vids.
I am very much drawn to the dieties in functionally eternal opposition in complimentary ways. Your use of the phrase of living myth reminds me of the saying that myth is not ancient history, but repeating stories.
The idea of Jormungandr being a protector of the earth itself is fascinating. It also pretty much means Odin wasn't exiling Loki's evil children, he was entrusting Loki's children to protect vital aspects of reality. Fenrir in that context may have been brought to Asgard to serve as its protector.
I think the best thing to do with all the gods is to hold respect for them regardless. Every one of them has a negative light if that is all you look for. Winter is harsh and kills, but also helps to bring new life. Fire destroys for one, and gives room for another to grow. Some acts are only evil if we think everything must cater to us.
I spotted jormungandr in the sky on the night of the lunar eclipse November 2022 just before a storm rolled in. Well, at the very least a cloud that resembled the belly of a snake at least a mile in diameter and took almost 3minutes to slither over my location.
I just love this analysis. It confirms a growing suspicion that I’ve had for years, and sheds light on what would otherwise be a baffling affinity that I’ve had for Jormandganr while simultaneously having an appreciation for Thor. The same holds true for me with respect to the other children of Loki, Hel and Fenrir, as well as Loki himself
The way you summarize the stories from the sagas makes me laugh. Like I’ll be reading em and be like oh interesting but you just toss out “..sheer amount of ale..” implying a shit ton and I bust out laughing. Also you missed the perfect opportunity for one of those flash text pun moments when you mentioned Jormangandr’s “standing” with the other gods in the beginning of the video.
The fact that this has played on my mind for so long. That I have had people ridicule me for such a belief. It is quite refreshing to hear it from another person and a slightly different but ultimately the same perspective. Thank you so much for your insight. Keep up the good work.
I've watched almost all of your videos, and this is one of my favorites. I enjoy your intellectual take, and healthy questioning of what remains of the myths.
It’s interesting to think of Jormungandr is a protector of Midgard. It sure make you think about what our belief system would be had it been recorded unbiased.
And this is the reason I subscribe to your channel! Brilliant take on the World Snake. I never thought of it that way but that makes perfect sense. Thor, protector of man, Jormangander, protect of nature!
Good arguments on Jormungandr as Midgard Protector. Lots of good information and things to think ponder. Always appreciate the scholarly depths of these videos.
An interesting parallel, with the idea of protector of nature in mind, can be found in the Greek Myth surrounding Python son of Gaia who’s often depicted as her protector. I think your definitely on to something with that interpretation. Great video! 🔥
Great Video, thanks! I love the re-addressing the Order vs Chaos discussions that is often reductionist of these two forces in conflict, rather than as a cycle, or in relational balance. In chaos, we find order, and order changes through chaos. To have one fixed and not the other would either be total destruction or an in-ability to grow and change. In this way, Jormungandr and Thor (and many other things) contain both Order and Chaos, and their relationship balances out those aspects in the other. The reductionist approach to order and chaos more generally only works to remove the nuanced worldview Heathens/Pagans would, and do, have. One that respects, accepts, and learns from the possibility of phenomenon outside our control. These phenomena are not inherently or dogmatically evil, just new and different. Something to be learned or investigated. This, of course, doesn't fly for a worldview that is dogmatically set in a grand struggle between the ultimate evil (Demonic Chaos) and the ultimate good (Heavenly Order), and therefore the myths would have to be re-written.
The idea of Thor and Jormungandr being in a balanced struggle resonated with me a lot. That alone made watching the video worthwhile. I have to add that I liked the use of a Thor comic image at 5:03. Roy Thomas and Keith Pollard did a good job adapting the myths to the Thor comics of that day. Granted they were Marvelized but were still surprisingly accurate.
I'm currently looking into norse paganism, these videos have been very educational and helpful in this journey for me, I can feel the drums beating and I know this is where I need to be, thank you for helping me down this path
I really appreciate this take Ocean. The tension between the natural world and humanity's attempts to be of nature, as well as above or outside of nature has always fascinated and drawn me. I am not really in contact with Thor much, though of course I respect his power, but I do wear a replica of an Icelandic piece which is a Mjolnir/Cross attached to a Wolf's head. The draw for me was the blending of the Heathen with the Christian, and within the Heathen imagery is the tension between what I presume to be Fenrir, and Thor. I've come more and more to appreciate the fact that we as humans only exist within the greyest of greys, at the strongest points of tension between chaos and order. Try as we might, it's always balance, and any tipping point, no matter our fantasies about the rightness or goodness of any particular side, spells almost certain doom.
THIS! YES! Jormungandr and Thor both protecting Midgard in their own way perfectly fits within my own beliefs, bith scientific and personal religious beliefs. Plus, being a paleontologist, I have quite the soft spot for Jormungandr. He is best snake boi.
Loved this video but I think my favourite is your video on Hel, the music in the backround and the way you explained everything so elegantly made it an S tier video for me
Fucking brilliant, Thankyou for a fresh perspective on a being that I have felt a draw towards and always get questioned about when I talk about him or his siblings. One of these days when I can afford it I promise I’ll get patreon, I would happily support my favorite content creator of any genre, especially my faith. Thank you
I loved this video! I absolutely agree with this interpretation - and as a Pagan scholar researching revivalism I super appreciate the discussion points on that too!
You’re killing it lately-I’m not seeing anyone else out there with this kind of subtle understanding of the deeper mythic symbolism. Keep up the great work! ⚡️
Stellar video, Ocean. You always do excellent work, but this one is especially excellent. Just wanted to let you know that all your hard work and suffering was worth it.
I love your channel I just started watching it yesterday and the insight and thought process show me a point of view I never could have come to on my own. I binged a bunch of you videos and can't wait to watch more! And I can't get enough of the puns they're hilarious and you did awesome for jormungandr it cracked me up 😂 and I love how you try and be so serious but just can't hold back sometimes
This was an enlightening video, especially for me, since the only angle of approach to Jørmungandr I had, was the one given by my history teacher's enactment of the myth of Thor's fishing trip. Quite exciting, though!
After you described the man versus nature perspective, I viewed the picking up of the cat in a different light. Suddenly, the horror was akin to the kind of horror we experience when we see the massive effects of deforestation or pollution.
Such a wonderful video as always Ocean! My views on Jormungandr was honestly kind of hazy because whatever information I could find of him was talking about the myths but not what symbolism he held, the closest thing to one was the association of the Ouroboros symbol. Your video helped give me a better and more nuanced view of him, I think Jormungandr can also be associated with the natural circle of life like how the Ouroboros is. Like Fenrir and Loki Jormungandr can be a seen as a leash for the God’s desires and egos, keeping them in check so they don’t cause an unbalanced universe and doing as they please with no consequences.
@@King-Fairhair kind of random to bring up God of war in this video but God of war isn’t insulting it’s just a video game that’ll be like a Hellenist being made about the movie Hercules or GOW for their depictions or being mad about Marvel’s Thor, it’s just fun media. The series is known for subverting pantheons to be darker, look at the original games with what they did to the Greek gods. Even in myth the Norse gods aren’t simply good or evil they fit into a gray area especially since different tribes had different views of the gods which fits with the history of different interpretations of deity with different regions and Polytheism in general. Ocean made a video discussing about GOW depiction of Thor I’d recommend watching that it’s a fun watch and he explains why it would be silly to be offended by a video game’s depiction of a deity. Especially where that same game a Spartan god fights against Thor with his half Greek half Norse deity son.
@@King-Fairhair Ocean actually talks about this too on this channel, he explains that scholars believe that the Ragnarok legend we know today wasn’t originally from the Norse or isn’t the version they had but a later version by Christians to undermine Norse beliefs. Rune Hjarno Rasmussen is a Danish anthropologist that runs the channel Nordic Animism and he believes that the original myth wasn’t focused on the gods dying but the conflict in the story representing degradation of society and relationships and climate change the Norse were facing at the time of the Viking age but was later changed by Christians. Just because a myth says gods die doesn’t mean it literally, Ocean and scholars point out that in antiquity these cultures didn’t view their myths as literal and more as stories to teach important lessons like right and wrong behavior, family relationships and conflicts, ideas about nature and spirits and so on. Ocean has several great videos about describing the gods and what defines them to be categorized as gods along with other spiritual beings and his view of them being immortal
@@livetowin8100 brother one more question....There is evidence of aliens and multiverses in Norse mythology ? And.. Norse god can assume many forms ? God's age changes ? Norse God can change his shape ( size) ?
Considering their awareness of Iceland and its highly active volcanic nature, Jormungandr sounds like it has incorporated some aspects of subterranean volcanic eruptions into its characteristics.
Fascinating video! @5:13 I can not help but think of "plasma discharge" when I see this depiction of Thor @18:10 Seeing the scales, I am reminded on the "UN Symbol" that - my interpretation - shows Jormungandr "encircling" Midgard, yet does not show "Antarctica". If Jormungandr is "frozen" in place, then a war between plasma (Thor) and ice (Jormungandr) would certainly make sense. It makes me wonder if Jormungandr is in place to protect Midgard from "outside" influences.
Great Video. You gave me a view of Jormungandr i haven't looked at. i simply had a view that he is the binder of the world shifting to give power to waves and holding the rock together until it shifts and gives tsunamis action. Now he is more the representation of humanity's part in the end. You are a fantastic resource for new ideas and lenses for Heathenry.
I named my kitten after Jörmungandr. Before I even knew I was getting a cat, whenever I would meditate I would always end up with that section of Thor trying to lift the cat. The first time I saw my cat, he looked at me, put his tail in his mouth, and the name stuck as we found out he likes the bathtub.
Once he’s done growing I’m going to make a cat bed out of a globe, much to only my amusement it seems. 😂
THIS
IS
AMAZING
thank you so much for sharing this
I love that. Tell your kitty I love him
Just don't throw him into the sea, a giant Jörmungandr encircling the world would make navigation difficult.
@@WheatDos especially with him pawing at the boats
The purring will cause earthquakes!
The idea of Jörmungandr as a protector of nature and thereby also an indirect protector of mankind really resonates, especially in this day and age. Mankind left completely unchecked will just devour nature until there is nothing left, and without nature we can't survive to begin with.
yes! absolutely how i see it . i could be wrong of course.
Agree.
I agree with you. I believe that Loki and his children are not evil. I work with Hel; some may say she is evil, but I say she cares far more than people think she does and for both the dead and the living. What we humans see as evil today is influenced by the rise of Christianity in the first century AD.
👏🏻👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
👏 👏
I think it’s an intentionally ambiguous thing on the part of the Eddas. The children of Loki were not monsters until they were prophesied to be such, feared, and abused, untimately driving them to become monsters and fulfill the Ragnarok prophecy. I think Fenrir’s story is especially exemplary of this.
yeah fuck the Christian faith in the US they make ANYTHING evil but they themselves are evil hail to Norse Paganism skål
I found out that hypothetically unborn child go with her and are taken care of. Idk how true it is but it brought me a lot of comfort
“Jörmy the stormy wormy did himself a squirmy and Thor killed him” I’m dyingg lmaoo
As a heathen who mainly worships Loki, I like to believe that his offspring represent both change and balance, just as he does in myths, so this take seems really close to my beliefs. Great video as always!
❤
What is Odin force according Norse mythology ? I just want to know
Why do you worship him?
@@crushinnihilismhey man maybe u should let them worship how they want
@@King-Fairhair The Odin Force is a vast cosmic power granted to Allfathers of the Asgardians in Marvel comics. The Odin Force doesn't exist in our mythology. It's a creation of Marvel comics writers.
As someone who works in shark conservation and is a pagan, Jormungandr has a very special place in my heart💙 he truly represents the dark side of nature that actually is what gives life and holds balance!
Besides, the demonization of trickster deities (Loki isn’t the only one that gets this treatment…) is such an odd concept to begin with because they are the ones that always put things into motion. Good or bad, nothing happens without going through the trickster first!
Big agree. I actually think “Catalyst” might be a better title than “Trickster” for many
I read a whole thing once about the christain god could also be called a trickster
"Meow, meow, me-meow, meow, I'm not a snake; cat." Beautiful line. XD
Seriously though, this was a fabulous video, Ocean!
This is the best line!
Okay, I need "All Cats have a greater than 0% chance of being Jormungandr" on something STAT.
I've worked with Jormungandr a LOT. I have a specific meditation with him about sinking into his coils for comfort and protection. I also invoke him as part of circle casting, literally asking him to encircle my ritual space as a protective barrier. Love the work you did in this vid! It's good to hear another Heathen who has a similar take on my favorite danger noodle!
I really like this idea and it sounds like the right one to me too, now that i've listened to this video.
It also makes it a symbolic warning that Thor dealt the deathblow.
Thor, the defender of mankind, represents humans, kills Jormungandr, who represents nature, for then to die shortly after.
If humans kills nature, it wouldn't take long for humans to die out shortly after.
I love these stories.
Here, people ride lightning bolts and serpents curl around the world in protective embrace. All of it cast across our thoughts in light and shadow. A tale told by fireside from somewhere long ago.
Food for my soul, if soul there be.
Down to the marrow, thank you, Ocean.
Amazing video as always, its nice to see the children of Loki talked about in a positive light and not straight up Satanized. And my new favorite Ocean line is in this video
Is it "Jormy the Stormy Wormy did a squirmy and then Thor killed him. What now? What. Now??? I'm a skald so fuck you thats what"? cause that's my favorite now lmao
@@barretthoven Im a skald, I laughed so hard at that line
😮
@@HelgrierIsn't that no different than saying you're a Bard?
I love that kenning you mentioned: "Necklace of the Earth".
It has a sublime ring to it.
As the token Jörm worshipper in my heathen circle, I can't even express how much I love this video. Hit the nail right on the head and even gave me some more to think about wrt the norse having more cause to favor Thor due to their context. My own UPG has also associated Jörmundangr with labradorite stones because they shimmer like how his scales are described, and can often be found in a tear drop/scale like shape. Thanks for your work as always! 🌊🐍
So I have a question for you, I've always been a heathen in a way but only just started highly embracing it in the last year or so and I worship mostly nature, I am a worshipper of freyja but I would like to know, how would I worship jormungandr?
Where is it described that his scales shine like labradorite? I have always affiliated it with him, even seen him with such scales in my dreams but never actually read anything thaat indicated that.
The three children of Loki have always been some of my favorite stories. Your videos bring so much to them that I could see myself having a meal with them as people. Thank you.
3? Jörmundgander, Fenrir, Hel, Sleipnir… I’ve got at least 4?
@Cat N’Hat I think there are 6 total, but the 3, Hel, Fenrir, and Jörmungandr, are the ones I knew of growing up
Awesome video, Ocean, in the full depth of that word. Once again, you've expanded my ideas of what my practice can contain. I've never seen any reason to exclude jötnar or other 'taboo' entities in my worship, but I never had much reasoning to include Jormungandr until right freaking now. It makes so much sense the way you've put this. I thank you so much for your deep dives on the more villainized dieties of the heathen world. You're the best, Ocean, keep up the good work.
God of War game has insulted your gods so why don't you oppose it ? I just want to know
I'm not of the opinion that my gods have such fragile egos that they'd be offended by a videogame
*Takes a shot every time Ocean says "Jörmungandr".
*Dies in the first minute and 30 seconds.
That look when Ocean knows just how bad what he's about to say is...followed up by another fantastic video! And have I mentioned how much I love the editor's rapid comments? Ale Yeah!
He probably got the Yourmomgander a lot for his puns as a kid. 🤣
Thanks for all the work you've put into this and all the figures seen as 'evil'. I love the nuance that you provide and why they're all worthy of worship even if they historically weren't.
"I'm a skald and f*ck you, that's what."
*The witch in the corner smiles eerily in his direction*
"Nyan nya nya nya nyan, I'm not a snake meow" is now my favorite quote XD
Ocean you are such a fucking gift to us! Ive been trying to reconcile the kennings that suggest both Thor and Jorm are protectors of Midgard for a bit. As someone who also has all the "stormy boys" on his altar your interpretation of protective powers in tension is my making my morning.
This is an amazing video, Ocean. Similar to Fenrir, Jormungandr is a deity I've been drawn to in the past, and even empathised with. At the same time, I've never considered including him in my hearth cult. Your interpretation might have just changed my mind, however, and given me reason to explore that idea for myself. Thanks for putting this video out!
Thank you for the amazing, informative video.
Examining Jormungandr as nature's wrath gave me reason to pause. I recently had a minor revelation that there is potential for many folklore 'monsters' or 'demons' or whathaveyou to have been miscast in human tales as they were quite possibly just defending themselves, their homes, the things they care for. This goes for more than Norse beliefs.
Great video! For Jormungandr the thing that had always resonated for me was that he wrapped around Midgard, which I viewed in a sense as holding the world together. This take is fitting to how I felt about Jormungander but didn't have words for. It is fitting that Thor represents humanity with how destructive he can be at times. And I totally see jormungander similar to nature in the sense that it is massive and would feel immovable as a whole. Also when humanity has done enough damage and it did finally raise its head against you... bad news bears.
I always appreciate you recognizing the animal deities as well, deities.
Love the video! I like this concept of Jormungandr as the Jotun version of Thor, a protector of his realm. It also works well with the concept of Loki as a god of balance, trying to ensure neither the Aesir nor the Jotuns gain too much power. All of Loki's children fill this kind of role, it seems to me. Thank you for continuing to broaden our minds when it comes to the gods!
Ragnarok is a self fulfilling prophecy. The Aesir treated damn near everyone as a potential threat, decided to deal with the problem by launching pre-emptive strikes, then act surprised and outraged when the Nine Realms finally retaliate.
So, in another word, Modern Day America?
My thoughts: Godzilla is a modern Jormungandr.
1) giant reptile
2) lives in the ocean
3) direct response to human impact on environment
4) poison breath : radioactive breath.
As BOC said, "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man..."
Also,
"Oh no, Thor says he's got to go, go go Jormungandr!"
I honestly love your approach to video making. Not many other pagan content creators dive so throughly into the nuance of Heathenry and its mythology. And that nuance is just another reason I love this faith and community so much. I always come away from your videos with a new perspective that I never even thought of. The Christian concept of the Nephilim and their apparent similarity to the Norse concept of the Jotnar isn’t lost on me. I honestly love reading the Bible(including, and maybe even especially, its “lost” books) like I read pagan mythology now, it’s so much more enjoyable and appreciate-able if you don’t look at it like how Christians often tell you to read it and just look at it like any other collection of religious or spiritual mythology. I’ve even seen people propose that the Nephilim themselves could be a bastardization/demonization of Canaanite nobility or the children of an Israelite parent and a Canaanite parent, a forbidden union under the Mosaic law. So naturally, the Bible/Torah would demonize them.
Also… if some Heathens got together and formed an Earth, Wind, and Fire tribute/cover band… don’t you think it’d be named Jorðr, Kari, and Logi? :P
🍁🕺🪩🍂
Brilliant
This is an amazing video and has shed a new light on a deity that I had never considered in any way benevolent. Of course, because "baggage Jesus." This has prompted me to give Jormungandr some props. Thank you!
Just want to say I’m new to Norse paganism and your vids are teaching me a lot I enjoy them keep them coming 👍🏻
Okay but why is this my favorite pun you’ve ever done?
I will now always refer to Jörmungandr as "Jörmy Stormy Wormy" 😂
I remember being first introduced to Jormungandr through "The Book of Sea Monsters" by Eggleton and Suckling.
For some reason though, the writer describes the Midgard Serpent as a She.
In any case, the myths surrounding the Great World Serpent has fascinated me enough to incorporate Him / Her in my stories.
He's always described with masculine language in Old Norse, so I dunno where the "she" came from.🤔 Then again, these sort of errors happen a lot in less scholarly circles. 😅
@@coregoon Well it was a book about sea monsters, not the Norse myths in general, at any rate. Soon as I had access to the actual myths I noticed the discrepancy.
In any case when Jormungandr features in my stories, the gender depends on who is talking about the serpent.
I never thought of Jormungandr like this. I didn't think of him as anything other than a constant obstacle for Thor. Honestly, this makes a lot more sense to me. Great video. 🙂
I liked the distinction between active and passive myths in relation to what is relevant to what people are dealing with in the here-and-now. It is an important point to bring up, especially with the idea of living traditions.
That folder on your computer of Gadsden Flags has led to this very video. Congratulations, you've officially Made It (tm)!
So basically Jormungandr was the Norse way of saying "Nature is metal"
The description of Jormungandr as a "shining serpent" is quite interesting, because the same description is used for Leviathan, as well as his older identity, Lotan iirc. Honestly, if the Chaos Serpents represent the opposite of the archetypal sky father's "virtues", then they can't be that bad. Especially my namesake, given who he stood against.
So the snake is like old kiju movies where they are protecters of earth, not necessarily those who live on it
i’m glad to see people doing deep explanations on these beliefs. thank you!
I love it. Thank you for this, Ocean. This is beyond refreshing, and I hope it helps more people see Jormungandr, along with Loki and his other children, in a new light.
This was an awesome video, Ocean! Thanks for helping me understand Jörmungandr a bit better!
I've been waiting for this ever since you made the fenrisulven video. Great video. Thank you
I've been Heathen for almost a decade, and I've never once viewed Jörmundgandr in this way, but after watching this video and considering it thorougly over the course of a few days, I can't help but agree completely. Very rarely does someone present their argument in such a way that radically changes my view of a deity in such a complete way. And while I never believed that Jörmundgandr was evil, I never worshipped him, but now you can bet that I'll be breaking out my woodcarving set and adding Jörmundgandr to my altar.
My cat also says "meow meow meow I'm not a snake meow" I think I should take him to the vet
Good luck lifting him in his carrier. 😋
I worship Fenrir and Loki, but haven't thought of worshipping or honoring Jormundgrandr in my practice due to my dislike for water. However, after this video, I'm considering. Even if it's ever so often, leaving him an offering as well as his sister, Hel.
Snake on the astral plane.
Okay but for real though, good shit boss. Not gonna lie, been loving the amount of revivalist shit and myth looking at in these last few vids.
Haven’t included Jormungandr in my practice, but I’ve been waiting for a vid on him!! Awesome job, ocean!
Gods the puns in this one is a *chefs kiss* AND THE EDITING?? so many snaps 🫰
I am very much drawn to the dieties in functionally eternal opposition in complimentary ways.
Your use of the phrase of living myth reminds me of the saying that myth is not ancient history, but repeating stories.
I couldn't find the source of the quote. Too tired. Thanks for the video!
Jormungandr is a kaiju confirmed 🤔
Great video as always. Thanks for making it!
The idea of Jormungandr being a protector of the earth itself is fascinating. It also pretty much means Odin wasn't exiling Loki's evil children, he was entrusting Loki's children to protect vital aspects of reality. Fenrir in that context may have been brought to Asgard to serve as its protector.
I think the best thing to do with all the gods is to hold respect for them regardless. Every one of them has a negative light if that is all you look for. Winter is harsh and kills, but also helps to bring new life. Fire destroys for one, and gives room for another to grow. Some acts are only evil if we think everything must cater to us.
"All cats have a non-zero chance of being Jormangandr." T-shirt please!
Very interesting! I like the protector vs protector idea as well as the comparison between viking age heathens and modern days heathens.
I’m glad to see other Norse pagans like myself
I spotted jormungandr in the sky on the night of the lunar eclipse November 2022 just before a storm rolled in. Well, at the very least a cloud that resembled the belly of a snake at least a mile in diameter and took almost 3minutes to slither over my location.
How cool is that?
I have a Thor statue and shed snakeskin on my altar. ⚡🐍 Always enjoy your vids.
Hymir: *cuts a fishing line*
Thor: *P E R I S H*
Okay i lol’d at this
@@OceanKeltoi all in a day's work
Lol
I just love this analysis. It confirms a growing suspicion that I’ve had for years, and sheds light on what would otherwise be a baffling affinity that I’ve had for Jormandganr while simultaneously having an appreciation for Thor. The same holds true for me with respect to the other children of Loki, Hel and Fenrir, as well as Loki himself
I love comparative mythology and cultures of the world, thank you for making this
The way you summarize the stories from the sagas makes me laugh. Like I’ll be reading em and be like oh interesting but you just toss out “..sheer amount of ale..” implying a shit ton and I bust out laughing. Also you missed the perfect opportunity for one of those flash text pun moments when you mentioned Jormangandr’s “standing” with the other gods in the beginning of the video.
The fact that this has played on my mind for so long. That I have had people ridicule me for such a belief. It is quite refreshing to hear it from another person and a slightly different but ultimately the same perspective.
Thank you so much for your insight. Keep up the good work.
I've watched almost all of your videos, and this is one of my favorites. I enjoy your intellectual take, and healthy questioning of what remains of the myths.
18:14 - damn...that's actually an awsome interpretation.
It’s interesting to think of Jormungandr is a protector of Midgard. It sure make you think about what our belief system would be had it been recorded unbiased.
And this is the reason I subscribe to your channel! Brilliant take on the World Snake. I never thought of it that way but that makes perfect sense. Thor, protector of man, Jormangander, protect of nature!
Good arguments on Jormungandr as Midgard Protector. Lots of good information and things to think ponder. Always appreciate the scholarly depths of these videos.
An interesting parallel, with the idea of protector of nature in mind, can be found in the Greek Myth surrounding Python son of Gaia who’s often depicted as her protector. I think your definitely on to something with that interpretation. Great video! 🔥
Great Video, thanks! I love the re-addressing the Order vs Chaos discussions that is often reductionist of these two forces in conflict, rather than as a cycle, or in relational balance. In chaos, we find order, and order changes through chaos. To have one fixed and not the other would either be total destruction or an in-ability to grow and change. In this way, Jormungandr and Thor (and many other things) contain both Order and Chaos, and their relationship balances out those aspects in the other. The reductionist approach to order and chaos more generally only works to remove the nuanced worldview Heathens/Pagans would, and do, have. One that respects, accepts, and learns from the possibility of phenomenon outside our control. These phenomena are not inherently or dogmatically evil, just new and different. Something to be learned or investigated.
This, of course, doesn't fly for a worldview that is dogmatically set in a grand struggle between the ultimate evil (Demonic Chaos) and the ultimate good (Heavenly Order), and therefore the myths would have to be re-written.
The idea of Thor and Jormungandr being in a balanced struggle resonated with me a lot. That alone made watching the video worthwhile. I have to add that I liked the use of a Thor comic image at 5:03. Roy Thomas and Keith Pollard did a good job adapting the myths to the Thor comics of that day. Granted they were Marvelized but were still surprisingly accurate.
I recently found The Norse Faith and this channel has helped me understand things better than I ever could have on my own. Thank you Brother
I'm currently looking into norse paganism, these videos have been very educational and helpful in this journey for me, I can feel the drums beating and I know this is where I need to be, thank you for helping me down this path
I really appreciate this take Ocean. The tension between the natural world and humanity's attempts to be of nature, as well as above or outside of nature has always fascinated and drawn me. I am not really in contact with Thor much, though of course I respect his power, but I do wear a replica of an Icelandic piece which is a Mjolnir/Cross attached to a Wolf's head. The draw for me was the blending of the Heathen with the Christian, and within the Heathen imagery is the tension between what I presume to be Fenrir, and Thor. I've come more and more to appreciate the fact that we as humans only exist within the greyest of greys, at the strongest points of tension between chaos and order. Try as we might, it's always balance, and any tipping point, no matter our fantasies about the rightness or goodness of any particular side, spells almost certain doom.
You worded it so beautifully, I couldnt agree with you more 😊
Very interesting video with some very interesting theories. Thank you 🙏
THIS! YES! Jormungandr and Thor both protecting Midgard in their own way perfectly fits within my own beliefs, bith scientific and personal religious beliefs.
Plus, being a paleontologist, I have quite the soft spot for Jormungandr. He is best snake boi.
Loved this video but I think my favourite is your video on Hel, the music in the backround and the way you explained everything so elegantly made it an S tier video for me
Fucking brilliant, Thankyou for a fresh perspective on a being that I have felt a draw towards and always get questioned about when I talk about him or his siblings. One of these days when I can afford it I promise I’ll get patreon, I would happily support my favorite content creator of any genre, especially my faith. Thank you
Come back big man we need more
I loved this video! I absolutely agree with this interpretation - and as a Pagan scholar researching revivalism I super appreciate the discussion points on that too!
This is a wonderful interpretation, Ocean! Thank you! Love this one so much!
You’re killing it lately-I’m not seeing anyone else out there with this kind of subtle understanding of the deeper mythic symbolism. Keep up the great work! ⚡️
Stellar video, Ocean. You always do excellent work, but this one is especially excellent. Just wanted to let you know that all your hard work and suffering was worth it.
This was an awesome video! Thank you also for the fantastic puns at the beginning of your videos 😂 they rock!
I like this interpretation a lot! Thanks for everything you do.
Great video as always Ocean. I've learned more from these videos than the sagas lol
I love your channel I just started watching it yesterday and the insight and thought process show me a point of view I never could have come to on my own. I binged a bunch of you videos and can't wait to watch more! And I can't get enough of the puns they're hilarious and you did awesome for jormungandr it cracked me up 😂 and I love how you try and be so serious but just can't hold back sometimes
This was an enlightening video, especially for me, since the only angle of approach to Jørmungandr I had, was the one given by my history teacher's enactment of the myth of Thor's fishing trip. Quite exciting, though!
After you described the man versus nature perspective, I viewed the picking up of the cat in a different light. Suddenly, the horror was akin to the kind of horror we experience when we see the massive effects of deforestation or pollution.
I like this take a lot. As a pagan it’s always interesting to dig into the myths around figures usually depicted as “evil”
Such a wonderful video as always Ocean! My views on Jormungandr was honestly kind of hazy because whatever information I could find of him was talking about the myths but not what symbolism he held, the closest thing to one was the association of the Ouroboros symbol. Your video helped give me a better and more nuanced view of him, I think Jormungandr can also be associated with the natural circle of life like how the Ouroboros is. Like Fenrir and Loki Jormungandr can be a seen as a leash for the God’s desires and egos, keeping them in check so they don’t cause an unbalanced universe and doing as they please with no consequences.
God of War game has insulted your gods so why don't you oppose it ?.. i just want to know
@@King-Fairhair kind of random to bring up God of war in this video but God of war isn’t insulting it’s just a video game that’ll be like a Hellenist being made about the movie Hercules or GOW for their depictions or being mad about Marvel’s Thor, it’s just fun media. The series is known for subverting pantheons to be darker, look at the original games with what they did to the Greek gods. Even in myth the Norse gods aren’t simply good or evil they fit into a gray area especially since different tribes had different views of the gods which fits with the history of different interpretations of deity with different regions and Polytheism in general. Ocean made a video discussing about GOW depiction of Thor I’d recommend watching that it’s a fun watch and he explains why it would be silly to be offended by a video game’s depiction of a deity. Especially where that same game a Spartan god fights against Thor with his half Greek half Norse deity son.
@@livetowin8100 ok 👍
My next question is gods never die than why god's died in Ragnarok ? And where is god now ?
@@King-Fairhair Ocean actually talks about this too on this channel, he explains that scholars believe that the Ragnarok legend we know today wasn’t originally from the Norse or isn’t the version they had but a later version by Christians to undermine Norse beliefs. Rune Hjarno Rasmussen is a Danish anthropologist that runs the channel Nordic Animism and he believes that the original myth wasn’t focused on the gods dying but the conflict in the story representing degradation of society and relationships and climate change the Norse were facing at the time of the Viking age but was later changed by Christians. Just because a myth says gods die doesn’t mean it literally, Ocean and scholars point out that in antiquity these cultures didn’t view their myths as literal and more as stories to teach important lessons like right and wrong behavior, family relationships and conflicts, ideas about nature and spirits and so on. Ocean has several great videos about describing the gods and what defines them to be categorized as gods along with other spiritual beings and his view of them being immortal
@@livetowin8100 brother one more question....There is evidence of aliens and multiverses in Norse mythology ?
And.. Norse god can assume many forms ? God's age changes ? Norse God can change his shape ( size) ?
I am on the side of the protector of nature. Great video. Love all your content!
Thank you so much for your hard work.
came for the pun, was not disappointed, oh man, thank you
Considering their awareness of Iceland and its highly active volcanic nature, Jormungandr sounds like it has incorporated some aspects of subterranean volcanic eruptions into its characteristics.
Fascinating video!
@5:13 I can not help but think of "plasma discharge" when I see this depiction of Thor
@18:10 Seeing the scales, I am reminded on the "UN Symbol" that - my interpretation - shows Jormungandr "encircling" Midgard, yet does not show "Antarctica". If Jormungandr is "frozen" in place, then a war between plasma (Thor) and ice (Jormungandr) would certainly make sense.
It makes me wonder if Jormungandr is in place to protect Midgard from "outside" influences.
This was a very well thought out and wholesome takeaway from the fractured and contradicting myths.
Great Video. You gave me a view of Jormungandr i haven't looked at. i simply had a view that he is the binder of the world shifting to give power to waves and holding the rock together until it shifts and gives tsunamis action. Now he is more the representation of humanity's part in the end. You are a fantastic resource for new ideas and lenses for Heathenry.