The issue is that Sonic Team just don't know how to make a properly difficult game. They simply CANNOT find a middle ground between too easy and too hard.
No...I refuse to believe to a bunch of pro Devs don't know how to figure out something this SIMPLE! no no no they know how to do it..this was all planned and on purpose!! This was kishimoto's revenge! You probably asking...what revenge? Simple a revenge for those toxic fans who were harrassing and antagonizing him on twitter ofc!! and with the recent request of the game is too easy he saw his chance...and purposely made the game so hard to punish and teach those toxic fans who were playing sonic frontiers a lesson with the ridiculous difficulty of the game for harrassing him on twitter because he simply had enough and I'm result we suffered through this difficulty YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!
@@Sonic-VA- Neckbeards who instantly hate anything that isn't classic Sonic don't count. Frontiers appealed to pretty much everyone, kinda a middleground between boost and adventure.
Yea Final Horizon was good but that perfect parry was BS. Ended up cheating on it because i didn't want to waste more hours. The fact you have to climb to the titans all over again was my breaking point
funny you call final horizon's platforming unsatisfying. Final Horizon has my favourite platforming challenges in the entire series. It finally gave me content I have to put all my effort to. It's at the point the base game is just a drawn out tutorial for the main game of final horizons in my eyes.
I'd just like it if they went back to how they used to do it back in the 2000's where you unlocked harder variants of the stages that tested you on more of the games mechanics. Yeah it was just a couple of object swaps and some slightly altered layouts but it was still a good way to get more juice out of the levels.
Honestly the only Sonic games I consider hard are Unleashed, Lost World and maybe Frontiers. I didn't have any problem with the game difficulty in the other Sonic games including Sonic 06. Storybook games were frustrating at times but I forgive it since they have wierd controls.
I think Sonic Team should stick to a consistent formula, or work on their tutorials and controls. The boost formula, that is memorizing a level gets really fun when you get good, although the classics really had something going with that different path mentality Replayability really is key, especially when paired with a controlled difficulty and good level design can make a level/game really fun to go through. The large difficulty spike in the final horizon update, while surprising, did give me a lot of fun, I try to beat my best times in cyberspace all the time. This video gave me thoughts I've never thought about before, looks like I won't be sleeping for a while tonight..
I feel like the major problem almost every sonic game has is the fact they all feel like they have an intense difficultly spike near the half way point or end of the game. A good example is how every classic sonic game generally has an agreed on point where the levels start to drag out and get filled with obnoxious gimicks And with the 3D games it's very spacifc instatances such as the abitray 5 minute timer in rouge's sercurity hall in sa2 or how sonic and the black knight suddenly has frame perfect precision on the 2nd king aurther boss and every trial in sonic frontiers putting you at level 1 and suddenly requiring perfect parrying just to make it a challenge. There are only a handful of sonic games that i can think of that dont suddenly hit you with an obnoxious difficulty spike.
@@sonicdml4175this is such a stupid point. Theres a difference between balanced hard diff and bad diff. You dont just strip every ability the player has, slap on a frame perfect parry, with no clear indicaters, badly telegraphed attacks with bosses that clearly werent made with this system in mind. Good diff would be like what kirby does by reintroducing bosses and mechanics with changes that make the bosses and stages harder in a natural way, and by keeping good players on there toes by forcing them to adapt all while having the tools to do so
@mrmelonman2893 Dude, Expert already asks you to play the game with lvl 1 AND not get hit. Most people complain about endgame enemies dying super fast once you hit level *5* attack. Also, on Hard, perfect parry is 1/10th of a second, which isn't actually that bad when not fighting Wyvern. On Easy, you get a full second perfect parry, which makes even Wyvern a joke to beat. And Supreme End's telegraphs line up perfectly ALSO, you DO keep your abilities, your skills don't reset at all, so you clearly do have the tools needed to adapt, your entire skill tree should be maxed out by now.
I'd just prefer if the S-Ranks alone were hard. Although Shadow Gens looks like the level's will be good they also look very easy (although it is an opening stage). This wouldn't be a problem if the S-Ranks required pixel perfect precision to require. Like imagine like Sonic Colours if you take those Chaos Control shortcut/lightspeed dashes it would give you more score akin to a wisp bonus. and if you DIDN'T take that route it would be possible to get an S-Rank however it would have to be by the skin of your teeth. That would be some good shit right there.
though yea agreed S ranks could be a lot harder and Ik its mostly hyperbole, oh god not pixel perfect please, I don't want a repeat of SADX's frame perfect mission 53
Don't forget how big of a complexity jump unleashed was when compared to Sonic Adventure 2/Heroes and that Sonic Unleashed had the most challenging boost gameplay with stages such as eggmanland. Fans became overly proficient at the boost formula right out of the gate and then the difficulty took a nosedive immediately after.
I'm not saying adventure 2 was easy. However, sonic was an easy character to control with only 2 main buttons being used. Meanwhile unleashed requires the use of the entire controller.
That's true. My playtrough of the HD version of Sonic Unleashed was so sloppy. It feels like they want you to fully memorize the layout to even be decent at the game and doge obstacles insanely fast. I barely managed to beat it but I never was good on that game like I am with the other boost titles and even the ps2 and Wii versions of unleashed. I mainly didn't enjoy playing it since it was way too hard for me. I did enjoy the soundtrack, visuals and story though.
Even the older games have gameplay of new players playing bad, even the Adventure games, even the classic games, idk why people's brain turns off when playing Sonic games, but that always happens
@@ThisisTheUltimateI never said that it wasn't valid for any Sonic game tho. I just said that that not literally eveyrone who plaus sonic games are always bad... or something like that. Yeah, it's definitely that. Anyways..maybe I should had clarified that. I didn't know that you was gonna respond like that. I'm sry However, I think you was... kinda vague? in your original point? (For me, at least, no offense) that's also part of the reason why I commented that. I hope that all made sense, and that you arent angry at me or anything. I actually found this discussion to be extremely interesting, ngl.
@@Hyp3rSonic It was a comment responding to a direct quote/point from the video, maybe that's why it sounds vague out of context So, to contextualize: in the video there is a comment about people struggling and playing horribly with Frontiers and Sonic x Shadow Generations' demos during those periods where videos of people playing the demos in events came out and saying that while for Sonic fans those were one of the easiest Sonic gameplay we've seen in a while, so I pointed out that the struggling from new players doesn't come just from SxSG and Frontiers but rather from the majority of the games, even the older ones have new players struggling while Sonic fans breeze through the stages
@@ThisisTheUltimateno, I totally get where you are coming from. I recommend you to watch this video called Sonic Fans VS Criticism, or smth like that, by The Sunshine Feeler, since I feel it's kinda relevant to this. Also, I just found that video to be interesting
I played a fair bit of Frontiers, and I think part of what got to me was the unevenness of the difficulty. I particularly remember a chase sequence that took an enormous number of tries, and some issues with the bosses.
I believe they need a difficulty option in game, hard like unleashed, easy like generations, or a middle ground like MOST frontiers stages(some are too hard).
The sonic team have been implementing difficulty options since sonic forces Pretty generous of them if you ask me, considering large numbers of newcomers play sonic
@@Superelite1024 arguably they first did it with Heroes' teams, namely Rose, Sonic and Dark in order of difficulty and I think that kinda philosophy would be a great balance for each mode (just don't take us having to play each one to get the final boss, I like it in Heroes but it'd make no sense anywhere else)
The difficulty options are a great way to please both types of players. Honestly I wish Unleashed had some difficulty options as well since I'm pretty bad at the hd version despite being able to s rank the Ps2/Wii stages with ease.
I think the way they did it in heroes with team rose, sonic and dark along side the super hard mode was perfect and is the best solution to the problem Because higher difficulty mostly result in higher replay value even though sonic generations is extremely replayable a game like Sonic mania and the classics in general are 3 times more replayable but they're much harder when you first pick them up and have a much higher skill ceiling
You are right I feel like they try over corrected difficulty curve from the fans feedback saying sonic games need more hard difficulty than it starting a thing where players complain it’s too hard. I think the sonic team went overkill with difficulty but not making it accessible to all players I think sonic games should have different difficulty modes make it accessible and more enjoyable to players.
I think the challenge of Sonic games is trying to go faster. The desire to move faster requires you to memorize the acts, hone your reflexes, and master the controls. You can go faster as long as you work for it. I think that's an "infinite difficulty" concept. It depends on the player to make the game difficult. According to the philosophy of Sonic gameplay, that's where difficulty comes from. The desire to go faster is the key to a challenge in Sonic the Hedgehog. I love the difficulty in the Frontiers' updates. I think the Sonic fans who complained are bad at the game. It's a skill issue.
I do really like the harder plateforming challenges in Final Horizon! They worked for all the characters and shows how good less automatized challenges could for the futur ^^! Combat wise it's... More complicated ^^'. I didn't gave it a fair shot since the final update was dropped so, maybe it changed but the fight against the guardians really weren't fun with Knuckles, Tails or Amy as they are all very lacking in fighting options. And the perfect parry, while a very good idea really isn't implemented well. The Titans really needed better tells to be readable by players, ESPECIALLY Wyverns. Which sucks because I love fighting Wyverns but it was horrible... I'm glad the easier mods were there to limite this problems.
@@sonicdml4175 Yes! You can tell Supreme End's patterns were worked around the Perfect Parry so it's mostly good! The only part that's confusing is when you have to go up to prevent him from attacking the barrier put on by Sage and the others.
@@SoraKingdom3they did patch the timing of the perfect parry and buffed Sonic’s friends attacks But your right the attacks on the titans especially on wyvern needed to be telegraphed better Also I wished they gave more combat moves Sonic’s friends If not for all than at least for knuckles
@@gn2677 Yep! I heard about that! I really need to replay Final Horizon ^^. It's kinda frustrating considering there was the animated prologue that focused on Knuckles from before Frontiers released that gave the impression it would be so fun to fight the robots with him. But sadly ^^'... Yeah he really needs more fighting moves!
I’m an average Sonic fan here, a gripe I had with the Sonic franchise, even though I like it, I feel like the problem is nowadays is that Sonic Team is more focused on hardcore fans of the franchise, than the average Sonic fans. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great. But it shouldn’t appeal to solely that, fans & the average consumer should be satisfied. And the difficulty problem proves my statement.
@@guyuser81 And you said they are more focused on the hardcore fans, which I disagree with. Idk who they are trying to appeal to, but it definitely isn’t the hardcore fans.
It should be why the ranking system exists in the first place. It gives players different tiers with varying difficulty to aim for. It is mostly that the highest rank is not challenging enough for most games with only a few exceptions like SA2, Unleashed, and even Dream Team.
06:34 and GUESS WHAT!!! I'm still stuck on it and since I'm playing on extreme mode I CAN'T switch the difficulty to make it easier, and what's bother me the MOST with it is the fact that if I fail I die and if I fail to Wryvern I must come back to Giganto AGAIN!!! I know I want difficulty that's why I enjoyed Kaizo level even if I can't do it but THIS!!! It's just too hard that's NOT FUNNY ANYMORE
This is honestly a good topic to talk about, and I have been thinking about it myself for quite some time. The main issue I've noticed with the final horizon is that Sonic Team struggles to find a balance when it comes to difficulty. They struggle or just cannot find a middle ground. they go all in, and as a result have to nerf certain things. Even with nerfs, they tend to overcorrect. The final horizon was definitely not tested enough; I'd even say that it wasn't play tested at all. I much prefer the platforming/puzzles of the 2nd update and the final horizon because they're MUCH more engaging and require more inputs and thought. For once, I actually had to switch my brain on for specific platforming sections or puzzles. They should definitely expand on the difficulty levels present in Frontiers. An easy mode shouldn't exactly hold your hand for the whole game. They should consider other accessibility settings in general imo. Great video, though!
I think that they should make levels that a beginner can get through, but will always get an E rank. Just like how the 2D sonic games have the fast top hard path and the slow easy bottom path, 3D sonic games should do the same, so that both the experienced players and beginners can have fun with this game. The stages should get harder and harder as you go through, but there should always be the easy bottom path no matter how far are you in the game... ... except if you wanna make the last level like eggmanland.
I generally think the games have gotten too easy as of late. Its not like the games were that hard earlier on, but they at least expected you to get substantially better at the game the farther you got in them, and there was even greater difficulty yet by putting greater emphasis on acquiring S ranks. With Colors there was a very noticeable drop in the difficulty of the game and that was compounded in Generations with some of the easiest S ranks in the entire series. Then in games like Forces or Colors Ultimate lives were done away with. Frontiers at launch was a little better mainly in that it had a handful of S ranks that were a challenge to get. The Final Horizon update was a massive breath of fresh air to me in that it was the first time in a while in the series that asked for a certain level of execution to get through certain points. The only instance i think was too much was the master koko trial and the perfect parry on bosses that weren't designed with it in mind. but the platforming challenges particularly the towers and some of the new cyberspace levels asked for much more awareness and understanding of your surroundings and abilities to get through quickly. and with the lack of a lives system, there is very little in terms of punishment for failing other than having to redo a portion again, which is standard for the genre so most complaints about difficulty regarding those comes more off like those upset they can't breeze through it like they could the prior games.
I think fundamentally, the design of the games is usually fine at the core, whether they're more challenging like Unleashed or breezy like Generations- the replayability is evident in how often we replay those games despite the complaints about their difficulty. I believe the issue is more of a matter of the extrinsic factor. On the end of newcomers or more casual fans, Sonic Team's pension for lackluster tutorials ends up hurting their learning experience- to master these games you often have to first understand the actual applications of Sonic's abilities and playstyle, as opposed to the casual misunderstanding that it's simply "go fast", which often just ends up with their frustration as they smack into walls and obstacles. There's definitely a lot of intuition that has to be gained to truly get the most out of it, but we need a better "first step" to ease people into that idea. Even hardcore fans sometimes fail to understand the nuances (see: all the people who complain about Unleashed's drift because they don't know you're not meant to boost and drift simultaneously in that game- even if you dislike that design choice, the design of the levels becomes a lot less frustrating in some ways once you know that and put it into practice- but I can't blame anyone for not knowing, the game just fails to teach that in the first place, and I've noticed this is a common problem with almost every 3D Sonic game.) But of course, as the video mentions, the opposite end also has an issue, the games can feel too easy once you actually understand how to play them. I don't believe this necessarily needs to be addressed through harder level design- even games like Unleashed or Final Horizon which are seen as "hard" by Sonic standards aren't that challenging when you have a good grasp on the physics and control and a little more familiarity with the design (well, Final Horizon still has some mean aspects but that's mostly due to some objectively poor design choices regarding the way boss hitboxes work in relation to the perfect parry, no matter how much you try to skew anything else as a "skill issue" there's really no defending that last trial as anything resembling a fair challenge), but rather, we really just need the ranking system to be good again. In my own perfect world, we'd get the pre-Gens ranking system back, I liked how SA2-Colors actually encouraged engaging with the levels on a deeper level and making it so that the lower routes had more of a function besides punishing poor play- but if ST wants to stick with a heavily or even strictly time-based ranking system such as that present in Gens, Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers, then they just need to balance it more around optimal play. With few select exceptions, S Ranks are handed out like candy in the most recent games and it just feels unsatisfying. This is why cases like 1-2 in Frontiers felt like such a difficulty spike. To Sonic Team's credit, I have heard Extreme Mode in Frontiers actually does make strides in that direction, but that kind of S-Rank difficulty should be standard rather than locked behind a difficulty option that otherwise might not be appealing to even hardcore fans. Anyways sorry for the ramble, this was a good video and I'm always happy to see this kind of thing addressed, its really one of the biggest issues with Sonic games that's kinda persisted since the beginning and Sonic Team seems to really struggle with how to address it.
I didn't even know that you shouldn't boost when you drift in the hd version of unleashed! That worked perfectly fine in the ps2/Wii port and I thought that the hd version had similar rules. I definetely think they should improve their tutorials and include every move and mechanic in there. When I started playing Sonic Frontiers I went trough the whole tutorial and still had no idea how to light dash in that game since the controls were so diferent from Generations. I had to literally Google to find my answer. Why the game didn't teach me that instead? Same goes with the parkour mechanic in Sonic Lost World. I beat the whole game without even learning/mastering it. This mechanic should've have been thought in a tutorial.
@@sonicmaiden2871 Yep! Unleashed (HD) follows that "Sonic is a racecar" design mindset to a tee, something else I think a lot of people miss (though in the game's defense it *does* tell you this very clearly) is that in that game, Sonic's speed also increases the more rings you have, so the more skilled you are, the faster you'll go, not just from optimization, but from being able to hold onto a resource that bumps up your speed cap. Same can be said for the intricacies of Heroes' level up system, while the game does give you the basic idea it fails to properly teach you what it actually does beyond vaguely making you stronger. Hell, when I was a kid I didn't understand how to consistently get the rocket accel to work despite it being told to you in the tutorial, strictly because the game never actually makes you use it and it doesn't really make the difference between it and your normal kick move obvious. Strangely enough, Black Knight and Lost World both have a kick move that's only useful in a handful of instances and only outright mandatory once and both games never teach you about it at all. I think the thing that really hammered this issue in for me though was that I was playing SA2B's multiplayer with a friend recently, and they just could not understand how grinding worked- and while I know it's not the most intuitive, when I thought about it, I don't even remember how I learned about it- it certainly wasn't from the game. SA2 does have a tutorial that goes fairly in-depth to its credit, but it's buried behind a menu that most players probably won't bother going to, especially since it's entirely non-interactive. I don't think it's lack of trying for Sonic Team, but they just seem to not fully understand how complicated Sonic games tend to be. They've come close to perfection, despite the fact it fails to teach you the speed control mechanics in Unleashed, the tutorialization in that game (for the day stages, the night stages are a little rough) is mostly pretty good, the first few stages introduce the core moveset to you very organically, they just needed a few more hints to nudge players in the right direction, like in Savannah Citadel, that opening area is the perfect place to teach proper drifting, since the only consequence for drifting too tight or too wide is slowing down. Having Chip just say something like "You can drift with the right trigger to make sharper turns, Sonic! But keep an eye on your speed, if you're going too fast you'll turn wider!" would have helped a lot- after all, if you know what you're doing you can do a boosting drift and succeed in Unleashed, but you gotta learn to walk before you can run, y'know?
@@thenightwriter619 I agree with everything you said! Also speaking of that Savannah Citadel level I beat it without the drift since I didn't know how the drifting worked. It was always either too wide or too small and I didn't understand why it was like this. As for Sonic Adventure 2, i didn't know the rail grinding mechanic well untill I saw in some video that nudging in the right direction and crouching at the right time can make you faster on rails. Idk why they didn't teach the players this mechanic properly.
Free idea for people to steal: If you're making a sonic fan game and want to incorporate an easy mode, make it so that the easy mode can be switches on and off freely and adds more checkpoints to each level so newer players can digest parts of the stages in smaller bites, yet comes at the cost of not being able to unlock achievements/true ending/post game content until all of the stages are beaten with easy mode turned off. :D
I think the solution has been right there for the longest time: the ranking system. They can design stages that are easy enough for the average player to clear, albeit with a B rank or worse, but make the S rank requirements hard enough to challenge veteran players. That way both types of players are satisfied, casuals can just go through the game normally with a mild difficulty, but for players who want more, they can start chasing the challenging S ranks. Sonic Team seem to have understood this in games like Unleashed and SA2, but for some reason they just forgot. In newer realeases like Forces or Frontiers, S ranks are so braindead easy that veterans are left unsatisfied, so they complain the games are too easy. If they start making stages more difficult to clear regardless of rank, then some players will say they're too hard. The ranking system allows players to pick their difficulty in a natural way, no need for difficulty modes, it's an elegant solution!
basically like Sonic unleashed’s definition of difficult is based on skill and maneuverability and it’s dlc is based on reaction time and staying on your feet
Mega Collection gave me all sorts of challenges as a kid. Adventure 2 had a couple of unfair stages that stumped me. Generations is mostly a wimpy walk in the park. Lost World was kinda tricky at times. Rise of Lyric just looked stupid. Frontiers is a boring Spyro game.
How about this. A boost style ranking system using the action chains from Unleashed on the Wii. Basically preform chains and combos with the platformering to get boost energy & keep it up(think the trick system from rush but mixed in with Unleashed wii's system for getting boost. but change it so that the boost is seperate into 3 speed tiers kinda like that one cyberspace level in frontiers. That way you can do platformering that noobs can get through slowly and do or die platformering for diffculty. Keeping your boost up and chains so you just don't lose that flow or speed or keep up at the highest speed tierThat way if they continue with the easy ass ranking system they can have this as a soft diffculty selector. This is just for another boost style game like unleashed and gens tho. Prehaps it can work for open zone if mixed with the action chain challenge so its a giant speed run between the open zones to the final objective. keeping your combo up as you go in and out of future cyberspace or whatever the smaller levels are called in the next open zone
Woth no video yet, what's your thoughts on Sonic Superstars? I give it a 6/10, upper C to lower B tier (if ignoring the price). I'd call it medium-level disappointing but NOT bad, more mid as you had predicted a year or so ago from the looks of things.
I haven't played much of it yet but did play the 1st zone and 1st act of Speed jungle so far and from what I played so far, i like it, even with the wonky camera in 2 player co op.
i went to the toilet while playing sonic generations and forgot to pause and when i came back and carryed on playing i still got an s rank and the lvl took 7 mins idk how
Alright to me memorizing the level design is lazy way to "get better" like every game u get better at memorizing the game, and its even worse with sonic with all those different paths
(Replying here) I think Superstars also lacks in truly original zone themes along with the general art direction (the fully original zones in Mania blow Superstars' themes out of the water IMO, other than Cyber Station perhaps). Most of the other zones in Superstars felt to me like some prior theme given a bit of a new twist, not unlike Mania's Act 2's. Some of the music was pretty disappointing as well. But indeed the game can still be fun to play, it's still speedier with more routes than other platformers so it fills that Sonic niche. Definitely still overall decent.
As if the classic trilogy also had "original" level themes,superstar's zones are more in par to the og trilogy than mania is,mania's look more like they would be a modern sonic level
I thought Rayman Origins and Legends felt faster than Superstars ngl. Those are probably the only competition Superstars has in terms of similar games and even those are over a decade old. Still hold up very well and are better than Superstars in my opinion.
@@sonicmaiden2871 Mania and superstars use the same physics engine. They are equally fast. If you say that superstars is slow you are saying mania is slow.
personally, I don’t think they’re too easy or too hard just the difficulty in the way they go about the definition of “difficult” basically, the root of the problem is the Challenge philosophy Inconsistency
Nah man, if easy was better than hard then super meat boy, hollow knight, sonic unleashed's eggmanland, kaizo hacks and a good portion of those "hardest quiz" or "hardest game" flash games would have no reason to exist.
6:30 Uh no, you are just complaining because they adressed your difficult complain, so they had to adress it...again. and yet you keep complaining, if you want an easy experience, pick easy, if you want a hard one, pick hard. It's not that deep
@@miadatenshi9903I do think that the perfect parry kinda sucks, for example. Also, the bosses, for the new characters, are way too strong, at the start of a new game. The 2nd and 5th trial sucked. You had to be borderline perfect originally. The final boss is bad. Also, it wasnt made clear how to beat it. Not to mention, if you fail on the final boss, or the 5th trial, you have to watch the same unskippable cutscenes again(and for some reason, you have to do the chasing part of Wyvern, before the actual fight) also, knuckles gliding having a startup animation originally, tails and amy? Not instantly stomping, as well as Knuckles, I think. The pop-in is still bad. The new Cyclones having a start-up animation, I believe. I still thought that the cyberspace levels where the best part, even tho I think its questionable for all of those to be over a bottomless pit. Also, one specific part in one of the new levels is kinda bad, imo. Also, the towers were kinda flawed and questionable originally. Also, it took me like 3 to 7 attempt to do both the boss trial, and the final boss, and I wasn't satisfied. I was just glad that it was over. I do have more to say, but I can't think about those rn. I will update this comment, and future comments later. Ofc, when the December patch came, I didnt think it was bad when that released. However, I did want it to be something like that patch originally. Oh, and knuckles gliding was kinda like sonics control in cyberspace from the base game, originally. Also, the new parry wasn't designed for the bosses. Like, you have to parry a few seconds before the attack actually can hit you. Also, the bosses have a lot of not telegraphed attacks, meaning you have to parry a few seconds before you think it will happen. Even attacks that don't look like it will actually hit, do. (Wyvern has at least 1 of these kinds of attacks)
@miadatenshi9903 Final Horizon platforming sucks. It's like they just threw shit at the wall and said, "Let's see what sticks, and it was like oh let's make this hard with no balancing. " Lol, but Sonic fans can't take any type of criticism.
@@KamiKoroshi_finally another person who actually criticizes the update. I still remember when someone claimed that I was nitpicking when I addressed my thoughts about the original version. I had to also address that I still stand by most of what I said(also, some other people denied some of the points I mentioned)
I agree that the ranking system for Generations isn’t good, but only for the base stages alone. The challenges are time based, and the ones where you race your ghost for each stage is pretty challenging to S rank. Generations also has online leaderboards. So that alone provides incentive to want to speed through levels.
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The issue is that Sonic Team just don't know how to make a properly difficult game. They simply CANNOT find a middle ground between too easy and too hard.
No...I refuse to believe to a bunch of pro Devs don't know how to figure out something this SIMPLE!
no no no they know how to do it..this was all planned and on purpose!! This was kishimoto's revenge! You probably asking...what revenge? Simple a revenge for those toxic fans who were harrassing and antagonizing him on twitter ofc!! and with the recent request of the game is too easy he saw his chance...and purposely made the game so hard to punish and teach those toxic fans who were playing sonic frontiers a lesson with the ridiculous difficulty of the game for harrassing him on twitter because he simply had enough and I'm result we suffered through this difficulty YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!
Unleashed? Adventure 2? Besides, neither all Mario games are fairly difficult lol
I think the issue is that they don't have a perfect formula that would work for everyone.
They should do exactly what they’ve been doing in the past. Easy to medium difficulty and very hard optional content.
@@Sonic-VA- Neckbeards who instantly hate anything that isn't classic Sonic don't count. Frontiers appealed to pretty much everyone, kinda a middleground between boost and adventure.
Aside from the perfect parry, final horizon was actually a breath of fresh air for me, because of the added difficulty...
Yea Final Horizon was good but that perfect parry was BS. Ended up cheating on it because i didn't want to waste more hours. The fact you have to climb to the titans all over again was my breaking point
Respectfully disagree (pre-patch)
Absolutely the platforming was great
funny you call final horizon's platforming unsatisfying. Final Horizon has my favourite platforming challenges in the entire series. It finally gave me content I have to put all my effort to. It's at the point the base game is just a drawn out tutorial for the main game of final horizons in my eyes.
Still think that cyberspace is the best part of both the base game, and Final Horizon
I'd just like it if they went back to how they used to do it back in the 2000's where you unlocked harder variants of the stages that tested you on more of the games mechanics. Yeah it was just a couple of object swaps and some slightly altered layouts but it was still a good way to get more juice out of the levels.
I literally woke up from a nap and the first thing I hear is "Sonic is hard".Wow
Honestly the only Sonic games I consider hard are Unleashed, Lost World and maybe Frontiers. I didn't have any problem with the game difficulty in the other Sonic games including Sonic 06. Storybook games were frustrating at times but I forgive it since they have wierd controls.
They need actual tutorial stages like Unleashed Apotos Act 1 or the tutorials in Colors DS
Agree
I think Sonic Team should stick to a consistent formula, or work on their tutorials and controls. The boost formula, that is memorizing a level gets really fun when you get good, although the classics really had something going with that different path mentality Replayability really is key, especially when paired with a controlled difficulty and good level design can make a level/game really fun to go through. The large difficulty spike in the final horizon update, while surprising, did give me a lot of fun, I try to beat my best times in cyberspace all the time. This video gave me thoughts I've never thought about before, looks like I won't be sleeping for a while tonight..
I feel like the major problem almost every sonic game has is the fact they all feel like they have an intense difficultly spike near the half way point or end of the game.
A good example is how every classic sonic game generally has an agreed on point where the levels start to drag out and get filled with obnoxious gimicks
And with the 3D games it's very spacifc instatances such as the abitray 5 minute timer in rouge's sercurity hall in sa2 or how sonic and the black knight suddenly has frame perfect precision on the 2nd king aurther boss and every trial in sonic frontiers putting you at level 1 and suddenly requiring perfect parrying just to make it a challenge.
There are only a handful of sonic games that i can think of that dont suddenly hit you with an obnoxious difficulty spike.
Tbf, with Final Horizon, you are pretty much asking for the difficulty to ramp up a lot
@@sonicdml4175this is such a stupid point. Theres a difference between balanced hard diff and bad diff. You dont just strip every ability the player has, slap on a frame perfect parry, with no clear indicaters, badly telegraphed attacks with bosses that clearly werent made with this system in mind. Good diff would be like what kirby does by reintroducing bosses and mechanics with changes that make the bosses and stages harder in a natural way, and by keeping good players on there toes by forcing them to adapt all while having the tools to do so
@mrmelonman2893
Dude, Expert already asks you to play the game with lvl 1 AND not get hit.
Most people complain about endgame enemies dying super fast once you hit level *5* attack.
Also, on Hard, perfect parry is 1/10th of a second, which isn't actually that bad when not fighting Wyvern.
On Easy, you get a full second perfect parry, which makes even Wyvern a joke to beat. And Supreme End's telegraphs line up perfectly
ALSO, you DO keep your abilities, your skills don't reset at all, so you clearly do have the tools needed to adapt, your entire skill tree should be maxed out by now.
Nah man, you just suck.
@@sonicdml4175that originally had lots of unfair difficulty tho
I'd just prefer if the S-Ranks alone were hard. Although Shadow Gens looks like the level's will be good they also look very easy (although it is an opening stage). This wouldn't be a problem if the S-Ranks required pixel perfect precision to require. Like imagine like Sonic Colours if you take those Chaos Control shortcut/lightspeed dashes it would give you more score akin to a wisp bonus. and if you DIDN'T take that route it would be possible to get an S-Rank however it would have to be by the skin of your teeth. That would be some good shit right there.
though yea agreed S ranks could be a lot harder and Ik its mostly hyperbole, oh god not pixel perfect please, I don't want a repeat of SADX's frame perfect mission 53
Don't forget how big of a complexity jump unleashed was when compared to Sonic Adventure 2/Heroes and that Sonic Unleashed had the most challenging boost gameplay with stages such as eggmanland. Fans became overly proficient at the boost formula right out of the gate and then the difficulty took a nosedive immediately after.
I'm not saying adventure 2 was easy. However, sonic was an easy character to control with only 2 main buttons being used. Meanwhile unleashed requires the use of the entire controller.
That's true. My playtrough of the HD version of Sonic Unleashed was so sloppy. It feels like they want you to fully memorize the layout to even be decent at the game and doge obstacles insanely fast. I barely managed to beat it but I never was good on that game like I am with the other boost titles and even the ps2 and Wii versions of unleashed. I mainly didn't enjoy playing it since it was way too hard for me. I did enjoy the soundtrack, visuals and story though.
Even the older games have gameplay of new players playing bad, even the Adventure games, even the classic games, idk why people's brain turns off when playing Sonic games, but that always happens
Not everyone is bad tho. Not a completely valid argument
@@Hyp3rSonic Never said that
And that's an argument valid for both older and newer games
@@ThisisTheUltimateI never said that it wasn't valid for any Sonic game tho. I just said that that not literally eveyrone who plaus sonic games are always bad... or something like that. Yeah, it's definitely that. Anyways..maybe I should had clarified that. I didn't know that you was gonna respond like that. I'm sry
However, I think you was... kinda vague? in your original point? (For me, at least, no offense) that's also part of the reason why I commented that. I hope that all made sense, and that you arent angry at me or anything. I actually found this discussion to be extremely interesting, ngl.
@@Hyp3rSonic It was a comment responding to a direct quote/point from the video, maybe that's why it sounds vague out of context
So, to contextualize: in the video there is a comment about people struggling and playing horribly with Frontiers and Sonic x Shadow Generations' demos during those periods where videos of people playing the demos in events came out and saying that while for Sonic fans those were one of the easiest Sonic gameplay we've seen in a while, so I pointed out that the struggling from new players doesn't come just from SxSG and Frontiers but rather from the majority of the games, even the older ones have new players struggling while Sonic fans breeze through the stages
@@ThisisTheUltimateno, I totally get where you are coming from. I recommend you to watch this video called Sonic Fans VS Criticism, or smth like that, by The Sunshine Feeler, since I feel it's kinda relevant to this. Also, I just found that video to be interesting
I played a fair bit of Frontiers, and I think part of what got to me was the unevenness of the difficulty. I particularly remember a chase sequence that took an enormous number of tries, and some issues with the bosses.
I believe they need a difficulty option in game, hard like unleashed, easy like generations, or a middle ground like MOST frontiers stages(some are too hard).
The sonic team have been implementing difficulty options since sonic forces
Pretty generous of them if you ask me, considering large numbers of newcomers play sonic
@@Superelite1024 arguably they first did it with Heroes' teams, namely Rose, Sonic and Dark in order of difficulty and I think that kinda philosophy would be a great balance for each mode (just don't take us having to play each one to get the final boss, I like it in Heroes but it'd make no sense anywhere else)
@@SkulkOfRoses tbh I concur with your statement
The difficulty options are a great way to please both types of players. Honestly I wish Unleashed had some difficulty options as well since I'm pretty bad at the hd version despite being able to s rank the Ps2/Wii stages with ease.
I think the way they did it in heroes with team rose, sonic and dark along side the super hard mode was perfect and is the best solution to the problem
Because higher difficulty mostly result in higher replay value even though sonic generations is extremely replayable a game like Sonic mania and the classics in general are 3 times more replayable but they're much harder when you first pick them up and have a much higher skill ceiling
exactly, though whule it worked for Heroes, they should probably leave out having to do all levels of difficulty for the final boss
@@SkulkOfRosesFacts
Agree
I’ll take Hard and Engaging like the Final Horizon over Easy and Mindless like Frontiers any day of the week.
Yeah the ratio of automation is absolutely day and night
There no way I reply the base game if the dlc does better
i won’t defend sonic generations rank system but i will say the red rings do a good job of incentivizing replay-ability
Agree
Don't care for the ranking systems that are based on score, tho(for the most part)
You are right I feel like they try over corrected difficulty curve from the fans feedback saying sonic games need more hard difficulty than it starting a thing where players complain it’s too hard. I think the sonic team went overkill with difficulty but not making it accessible to all players I think sonic games should have different difficulty modes make it accessible and more enjoyable to players.
I think the challenge of Sonic games is trying to go faster. The desire to move faster requires you to memorize the acts, hone your reflexes, and master the controls. You can go faster as long as you work for it. I think that's an "infinite difficulty" concept. It depends on the player to make the game difficult. According to the philosophy of Sonic gameplay, that's where difficulty comes from. The desire to go faster is the key to a challenge in Sonic the Hedgehog.
I love the difficulty in the Frontiers' updates. I think the Sonic fans who complained are bad at the game. It's a skill issue.
I do really like the harder plateforming challenges in Final Horizon! They worked for all the characters and shows how good less automatized challenges could for the futur ^^!
Combat wise it's... More complicated ^^'. I didn't gave it a fair shot since the final update was dropped so, maybe it changed but the fight against the guardians really weren't fun with Knuckles, Tails or Amy as they are all very lacking in fighting options.
And the perfect parry, while a very good idea really isn't implemented well. The Titans really needed better tells to be readable by players, ESPECIALLY Wyverns. Which sucks because I love fighting Wyverns but it was horrible... I'm glad the easier mods were there to limite this problems.
@@SoraKingdom3
At least Supreme End works well with Perfect Parry
@@sonicdml4175 Yes! You can tell Supreme End's patterns were worked around the Perfect Parry so it's mostly good!
The only part that's confusing is when you have to go up to prevent him from attacking the barrier put on by Sage and the others.
@@SoraKingdom3they did patch the timing of the perfect parry and buffed Sonic’s friends attacks
But your right the attacks on the titans especially on wyvern needed to be telegraphed better
Also I wished they gave more combat moves Sonic’s friends
If not for all than at least for knuckles
@@gn2677 Yep! I heard about that! I really need to replay Final Horizon ^^.
It's kinda frustrating considering there was the animated prologue that focused on Knuckles from before Frontiers released that gave the impression it would be so fun to fight the robots with him.
But sadly ^^'... Yeah he really needs more fighting moves!
I’m an average Sonic fan here, a gripe I had with the Sonic franchise, even though I like it, I feel like the problem is nowadays is that Sonic Team is more focused on hardcore fans of the franchise, than the average Sonic fans. Don’t get me wrong, it’s great. But it shouldn’t appeal to solely that, fans & the average consumer should be satisfied. And the difficulty problem proves my statement.
Not really? The ranking systems are too forgiving, and hardcore Sonic fans would want something more challenging.
@@sauce987654321 You said, ‘hardcore Sonic fans.’ I’m talking about the average gamer.
@@guyuser81 And you said they are more focused on the hardcore fans, which I disagree with. Idk who they are trying to appeal to, but it definitely isn’t the hardcore fans.
@@sauce987654321 Okay, but they’re still focusing more on the fans rather than the average audience.
@@guyuser81 Pfft, I wish they did 😆
It should be why the ranking system exists in the first place. It gives players different tiers with varying difficulty to aim for. It is mostly that the highest rank is not challenging enough for most games with only a few exceptions like SA2, Unleashed, and even Dream Team.
The training stuff in frontiers is fun and you shouldn't lock fun behind loosing to much
CRAZY video start
06:34 and GUESS WHAT!!! I'm still stuck on it and since I'm playing on extreme mode I CAN'T switch the difficulty to make it easier, and what's bother me the MOST with it is the fact that if I fail I die and if I fail to Wryvern I must come back to Giganto AGAIN!!! I know I want difficulty that's why I enjoyed Kaizo level even if I can't do it but THIS!!! It's just too hard that's NOT FUNNY ANYMORE
I suffered with that problem as well and legit replayed the whole game to get back to that point(while learning some speedrun tricks to get there)
Tbh i like generations difficulty. Its easy to beat and mediocare for 100%
I dont mind the difficulty for Generations as well, actually.
In fact, I found it more balanced then Update 3 or Unleashed
This is honestly a good topic to talk about, and I have been thinking about it myself for quite some time. The main issue I've noticed with the final horizon is that Sonic Team struggles to find a balance when it comes to difficulty. They struggle or just cannot find a middle ground. they go all in, and as a result have to nerf certain things. Even with nerfs, they tend to overcorrect. The final horizon was definitely not tested enough; I'd even say that it wasn't play tested at all.
I much prefer the platforming/puzzles of the 2nd update and the final horizon because they're MUCH more engaging and require more inputs and thought. For once, I actually had to switch my brain on for specific platforming sections or puzzles.
They should definitely expand on the difficulty levels present in Frontiers. An easy mode shouldn't exactly hold your hand for the whole game. They should consider other accessibility settings in general imo. Great video, though!
Just make a ranking system that's hard with linear levels, and the frontiers open zone do your suggestion.
0:26 is the most overthink thing I've seen in a long time. It's extremely easy.
Chemical zone act 2 was such pain for me back in the day
I think that they should make levels that a beginner can get through, but will always get an E rank.
Just like how the 2D sonic games have the fast top hard path and the slow easy bottom path,
3D sonic games should do the same, so that both the experienced players and beginners
can have fun with this game.
The stages should get harder and harder as you go through, but there should always be the easy bottom path no matter how far are you in the game...
... except if you wanna make the last level like eggmanland.
I generally think the games have gotten too easy as of late. Its not like the games were that hard earlier on, but they at least expected you to get substantially better at the game the farther you got in them, and there was even greater difficulty yet by putting greater emphasis on acquiring S ranks. With Colors there was a very noticeable drop in the difficulty of the game and that was compounded in Generations with some of the easiest S ranks in the entire series. Then in games like Forces or Colors Ultimate lives were done away with. Frontiers at launch was a little better mainly in that it had a handful of S ranks that were a challenge to get. The Final Horizon update was a massive breath of fresh air to me in that it was the first time in a while in the series that asked for a certain level of execution to get through certain points. The only instance i think was too much was the master koko trial and the perfect parry on bosses that weren't designed with it in mind. but the platforming challenges particularly the towers and some of the new cyberspace levels asked for much more awareness and understanding of your surroundings and abilities to get through quickly. and with the lack of a lives system, there is very little in terms of punishment for failing other than having to redo a portion again, which is standard for the genre so most complaints about difficulty regarding those comes more off like those upset they can't breeze through it like they could the prior games.
"sonic is hard" i think you were right to rephrase that💀💀💀
People don't play Sonic games for the difficulty.
I do, Knuckles playthrough of S3&K is the best.
*most people don't play sonci games for the difficulty
How to make a correct difficulty:
Play freedom planet 2
I think fundamentally, the design of the games is usually fine at the core, whether they're more challenging like Unleashed or breezy like Generations- the replayability is evident in how often we replay those games despite the complaints about their difficulty. I believe the issue is more of a matter of the extrinsic factor.
On the end of newcomers or more casual fans, Sonic Team's pension for lackluster tutorials ends up hurting their learning experience- to master these games you often have to first understand the actual applications of Sonic's abilities and playstyle, as opposed to the casual misunderstanding that it's simply "go fast", which often just ends up with their frustration as they smack into walls and obstacles. There's definitely a lot of intuition that has to be gained to truly get the most out of it, but we need a better "first step" to ease people into that idea. Even hardcore fans sometimes fail to understand the nuances (see: all the people who complain about Unleashed's drift because they don't know you're not meant to boost and drift simultaneously in that game- even if you dislike that design choice, the design of the levels becomes a lot less frustrating in some ways once you know that and put it into practice- but I can't blame anyone for not knowing, the game just fails to teach that in the first place, and I've noticed this is a common problem with almost every 3D Sonic game.)
But of course, as the video mentions, the opposite end also has an issue, the games can feel too easy once you actually understand how to play them. I don't believe this necessarily needs to be addressed through harder level design- even games like Unleashed or Final Horizon which are seen as "hard" by Sonic standards aren't that challenging when you have a good grasp on the physics and control and a little more familiarity with the design (well, Final Horizon still has some mean aspects but that's mostly due to some objectively poor design choices regarding the way boss hitboxes work in relation to the perfect parry, no matter how much you try to skew anything else as a "skill issue" there's really no defending that last trial as anything resembling a fair challenge), but rather, we really just need the ranking system to be good again. In my own perfect world, we'd get the pre-Gens ranking system back, I liked how SA2-Colors actually encouraged engaging with the levels on a deeper level and making it so that the lower routes had more of a function besides punishing poor play- but if ST wants to stick with a heavily or even strictly time-based ranking system such as that present in Gens, Lost World, Forces, and Frontiers, then they just need to balance it more around optimal play. With few select exceptions, S Ranks are handed out like candy in the most recent games and it just feels unsatisfying. This is why cases like 1-2 in Frontiers felt like such a difficulty spike. To Sonic Team's credit, I have heard Extreme Mode in Frontiers actually does make strides in that direction, but that kind of S-Rank difficulty should be standard rather than locked behind a difficulty option that otherwise might not be appealing to even hardcore fans.
Anyways sorry for the ramble, this was a good video and I'm always happy to see this kind of thing addressed, its really one of the biggest issues with Sonic games that's kinda persisted since the beginning and Sonic Team seems to really struggle with how to address it.
I didn't even know that you shouldn't boost when you drift in the hd version of unleashed! That worked perfectly fine in the ps2/Wii port and I thought that the hd version had similar rules.
I definetely think they should improve their tutorials and include every move and mechanic in there. When I started playing Sonic Frontiers I went trough the whole tutorial and still had no idea how to light dash in that game since the controls were so diferent from Generations. I had to literally Google to find my answer. Why the game didn't teach me that instead?
Same goes with the parkour mechanic in Sonic Lost World. I beat the whole game without even learning/mastering it. This mechanic should've have been thought in a tutorial.
@@sonicmaiden2871 Yep! Unleashed (HD) follows that "Sonic is a racecar" design mindset to a tee, something else I think a lot of people miss (though in the game's defense it *does* tell you this very clearly) is that in that game, Sonic's speed also increases the more rings you have, so the more skilled you are, the faster you'll go, not just from optimization, but from being able to hold onto a resource that bumps up your speed cap. Same can be said for the intricacies of Heroes' level up system, while the game does give you the basic idea it fails to properly teach you what it actually does beyond vaguely making you stronger. Hell, when I was a kid I didn't understand how to consistently get the rocket accel to work despite it being told to you in the tutorial, strictly because the game never actually makes you use it and it doesn't really make the difference between it and your normal kick move obvious.
Strangely enough, Black Knight and Lost World both have a kick move that's only useful in a handful of instances and only outright mandatory once and both games never teach you about it at all.
I think the thing that really hammered this issue in for me though was that I was playing SA2B's multiplayer with a friend recently, and they just could not understand how grinding worked- and while I know it's not the most intuitive, when I thought about it, I don't even remember how I learned about it- it certainly wasn't from the game. SA2 does have a tutorial that goes fairly in-depth to its credit, but it's buried behind a menu that most players probably won't bother going to, especially since it's entirely non-interactive. I don't think it's lack of trying for Sonic Team, but they just seem to not fully understand how complicated Sonic games tend to be. They've come close to perfection, despite the fact it fails to teach you the speed control mechanics in Unleashed, the tutorialization in that game (for the day stages, the night stages are a little rough) is mostly pretty good, the first few stages introduce the core moveset to you very organically, they just needed a few more hints to nudge players in the right direction, like in Savannah Citadel, that opening area is the perfect place to teach proper drifting, since the only consequence for drifting too tight or too wide is slowing down. Having Chip just say something like "You can drift with the right trigger to make sharper turns, Sonic! But keep an eye on your speed, if you're going too fast you'll turn wider!" would have helped a lot- after all, if you know what you're doing you can do a boosting drift and succeed in Unleashed, but you gotta learn to walk before you can run, y'know?
@@thenightwriter619 I agree with everything you said! Also speaking of that Savannah Citadel level I beat it without the drift since I didn't know how the drifting worked. It was always either too wide or too small and I didn't understand why it was like this.
As for Sonic Adventure 2, i didn't know the rail grinding mechanic well untill I saw in some video that nudging in the right direction and crouching at the right time can make you faster on rails. Idk why they didn't teach the players this mechanic properly.
Free idea for people to steal: If you're making a sonic fan game and want to incorporate an easy mode, make it so that the easy mode can be switches on and off freely and adds more checkpoints to each level so newer players can digest parts of the stages in smaller bites, yet comes at the cost of not being able to unlock achievements/true ending/post game content until all of the stages are beaten with easy mode turned off. :D
I think the solution has been right there for the longest time: the ranking system.
They can design stages that are easy enough for the average player to clear, albeit with a B rank or worse, but make the S rank requirements hard enough to challenge veteran players.
That way both types of players are satisfied, casuals can just go through the game normally with a mild difficulty, but for players who want more, they can start chasing the challenging S ranks.
Sonic Team seem to have understood this in games like Unleashed and SA2, but for some reason they just forgot.
In newer realeases like Forces or Frontiers, S ranks are so braindead easy that veterans are left unsatisfied, so they complain the games are too easy.
If they start making stages more difficult to clear regardless of rank, then some players will say they're too hard.
The ranking system allows players to pick their difficulty in a natural way, no need for difficulty modes, it's an elegant solution!
There is not a single hard sonic game imo but sonic games are easily my most played games
Hd version of Unleashed was hard in my opinion. I don't really count the other Sonic games as hard though.
@@sonicmaiden2871 fair. It is the closest one to being difficult for me
@@mewtube47 makes sense
basically like Sonic unleashed’s definition of difficult is based on skill and maneuverability and it’s dlc is based on reaction time and staying on your feet
Mega Collection gave me all sorts of challenges as a kid.
Adventure 2 had a couple of unfair stages that stumped me.
Generations is mostly a wimpy walk in the park.
Lost World was kinda tricky at times.
Rise of Lyric just looked stupid.
Frontiers is a boring Spyro game.
I really hope they continue to make optional sonic frontiers dlc difficulty style .
0:00 And so am I
AYO?
Ok xpool
I agree for the most part but I mean eggmaland in unleashed excict.
How about this. A boost style ranking system using the action chains from Unleashed on the Wii. Basically preform chains and combos with the platformering to get boost energy & keep it up(think the trick system from rush but mixed in with Unleashed wii's system for getting boost. but change it so that the boost is seperate into 3 speed tiers kinda like that one cyberspace level in frontiers. That way you can do platformering that noobs can get through slowly and do or die platformering for diffculty. Keeping your boost up and chains so you just don't lose that flow or speed or keep up at the highest speed tierThat way if they continue with the easy ass ranking system they can have this as a soft diffculty selector. This is just for another boost style game like unleashed and gens tho. Prehaps it can work for open zone if mixed with the action chain challenge so its a giant speed run between the open zones to the final objective. keeping your combo up as you go in and out of future cyberspace or whatever the smaller levels are called in the next open zone
In sonic jam, you actually had an easy, normal and original mode for new players and older players
Question.
What was the credits BGM?
I liked it a lot.
Results - Garfield Kart OST
@@Daviron oh thank you for actually replying.
I appreciate it
I hope this video is as much as a banger as your others, you've been cooking for a month 🔥, let's see what's on the table...
haha thanks! I'm on vacation right now which is why this one took so long, it was hard to find time to edit
@@Daviron no pressure, ngl I'm in bed rn and it's 11:30 pm for me on a school night 💀
@@Phamtheman69your in school already? Damn
Woth no video yet, what's your thoughts on Sonic Superstars? I give it a 6/10, upper C to lower B tier (if ignoring the price). I'd call it medium-level disappointing but NOT bad, more mid as you had predicted a year or so ago from the looks of things.
I enjoy it, for me its not a 7/10
I enjoyed superstars a lot, it's right next to sonic 2 for me at an 8/10. Visuals are a bit disappointing but the level design and controls are great
I haven't played much of it yet but did play the 1st zone and 1st act of Speed jungle so far and from what I played so far, i like it, even with the wonky camera in 2 player co op.
i went to the toilet while playing sonic generations and forgot to pause and when i came back and carryed on playing i still got an s rank and the lvl took 7 mins idk how
Alright to me memorizing the level design is lazy way to "get better" like every game u get better at memorizing the game, and its even worse with sonic with all those different paths
I think sonic team should have time to create an actually good video game.
Lol they need 10 years total
Agree
(Replying here) I think Superstars also lacks in truly original zone themes along with the general art direction (the fully original zones in Mania blow Superstars' themes out of the water IMO, other than Cyber Station perhaps). Most of the other zones in Superstars felt to me like some prior theme given a bit of a new twist, not unlike Mania's Act 2's. Some of the music was pretty disappointing as well. But indeed the game can still be fun to play, it's still speedier with more routes than other platformers so it fills that Sonic niche. Definitely still overall decent.
As if the classic trilogy also had "original" level themes,superstar's zones are more in par to the og trilogy than mania is,mania's look more like they would be a modern sonic level
I thought Rayman Origins and Legends felt faster than Superstars ngl. Those are probably the only competition Superstars has in terms of similar games and even those are over a decade old. Still hold up very well and are better than Superstars in my opinion.
@@sonicmaiden2871 ok so rayman origins & legends are faster than superstars & mania
@@eggysthings6600 than Mania maybe not but definetely faster than Superstars.
@@sonicmaiden2871 Mania and superstars use the same physics engine.
They are equally fast.
If you say that superstars is slow you are saying mania is slow.
You dodged a bullet by not putting “too hard?” In the thumbnail
so true
"SoNiC gAmEs ArE tOo HaRd!?"
there does exist an unused version with "too hard?"...
@@Phamtheman69 I’m more of talking about the innuendo it would’ve created
i cant believe i was not subscribed
Im sorry but lost worlds controls are really easy to understand not everything needs a tutorial IMO its fun to figure simple stuff out
personally, I don’t think they’re too easy or too hard just the difficulty in the way they go about the definition of “difficult” basically, the root of the problem is the Challenge philosophy Inconsistency
the reason why you don't like sonic unleashed is that you are so good at the game it took away the fun of the challenging ranking system
subject verb agreement bro
DO NOT MAKE THAT SONIC SUPERSTARS DIFFICULTY EVER AGAIN!!!!!
that is all
Side note: Super Hard Mode in Adventure 2 and heroes was fine
Wassup Daviron?
Hi daviron, I'm a big fan i hope i can one day talk to you in a discord server that would be so fire 🔥
Honestly Sonic games don’t suck. If they you call them hard it’s probably skill issue. The only thing SEGA needs to fix is the easy parts
Easy is always better than hard
More like, an enjoyable scale of difficulty is always better than just hard or just easy
Nah man, if easy was better than hard then super meat boy, hollow knight, sonic unleashed's eggmanland, kaizo hacks and a good portion of those "hardest quiz" or "hardest game" flash games would have no reason to exist.
@@IAteUranium-238 I'd rather have an easy and relaxing game than a game that makes me angry at it
@@cam935n Facts, but at the end of the day it's about opinions and likings
I agree
Nice vid
6:30 Uh no, you are just complaining because they adressed your difficult complain, so they had to adress it...again. and yet you keep complaining, if you want an easy experience, pick easy, if you want a hard one, pick hard. It's not that deep
He is right tho. There are a lot of problems with the supposed "harder difficulty"
A lot of it is artificial difficulty(originally)
@@Hyp3rSonic okay. Explain how. A good enough player can easily do everything in Final Horizon, I myself had no trouble with most things
@@miadatenshi9903I do think that the perfect parry kinda sucks, for example. Also, the bosses, for the new characters, are way too strong, at the start of a new game. The 2nd and 5th trial sucked. You had to be borderline perfect originally. The final boss is bad. Also, it wasnt made clear how to beat it. Not to mention, if you fail on the final boss, or the 5th trial, you have to watch the same unskippable cutscenes again(and for some reason, you have to do the chasing part of Wyvern, before the actual fight) also, knuckles gliding having a startup animation originally, tails and amy? Not instantly stomping, as well as Knuckles, I think. The pop-in is still bad. The new Cyclones having a start-up animation, I believe. I still thought that the cyberspace levels where the best part, even tho I think its questionable for all of those to be over a bottomless pit. Also, one specific part in one of the new levels is kinda bad, imo.
Also, the towers were kinda flawed and questionable originally.
Also, it took me like 3 to 7 attempt to do both the boss trial, and the final boss, and I wasn't satisfied. I was just glad that it was over. I do have more to say, but I can't think about those rn. I will update this comment, and future comments later.
Ofc, when the December patch came, I didnt think it was bad when that released. However, I did want it to be something like that patch originally.
Oh, and knuckles gliding was kinda like sonics control in cyberspace from the base game, originally.
Also, the new parry wasn't designed for the bosses. Like, you have to parry a few seconds before the attack actually can hit you. Also, the bosses have a lot of not telegraphed attacks, meaning you have to parry a few seconds before you think it will happen. Even attacks that don't look like it will actually hit, do. (Wyvern has at least 1 of these kinds of attacks)
@miadatenshi9903 Final Horizon platforming sucks. It's like they just threw shit at the wall and said, "Let's see what sticks, and it was like oh let's make this hard with no balancing. " Lol, but Sonic fans can't take any type of criticism.
@@KamiKoroshi_finally another person who actually criticizes the update. I still remember when someone claimed that I was nitpicking when I addressed my thoughts about the original version. I had to also address that I still stand by most of what I said(also, some other people denied some of the points I mentioned)
Dont share your opinion on the sonic franchise ever again. Thank you
???
@@AdamWright-t7w el cielo esta enladrillado quien lo desenlidrallara? El desenladrador que lo desenladrille buen desenladrillador será
skill issue get good
💀
Missing the point. The person
@@soundwavetheminiconcarrieryep, completely missing the point
2d game are betters
git gud... but also, if you want a REAL 3D Sonic experience, play Spark The Electric Jester 3 on PC.
I agree that the ranking system for Generations isn’t good, but only for the base stages alone. The challenges are time based, and the ones where you race your ghost for each stage is pretty challenging to S rank.
Generations also has online leaderboards. So that alone provides incentive to want to speed through levels.