A quick background search would show that CC had a very useful academic background to be able to administer/understand the dynamics of EPO usage. I feel like this is very important context you missed in this video prep.
I personally feel there is a big difference between studying human performance / sports consultation and actually having the capability to exicute this. Of course he would have an undertaking of EPO but that is still far off being a doctor and having the capabilities to exicute this with as little risk as possible… althiugh you’ve got a great point and I should have included this. This still doesn’t in my opinion change either the time scale being off or the coaching team not noticing changes in performance in training.
Of course there is a difference between studying it and performing this on yourself. However in this case the point is still very valid as he was extremely experienced in the mechanics around blood sampling/collecting, red blood cells monitoring etc. AND working with human subjects as his LinkedIn profile outlines. This is NOT your average prof triathlete who just did some Google searches with zero qualifications!
I don’t buy the Mikel Iden argument, you don’t start taking EPO and then the next month your performance goes through the roof. Watch Icarus these improvements take a long time to show up and sometimes performance can even go backward before it goes upward. Mikel Iden is pretty much a remote coach that only saw him at training camps and checks in once a week. I think it’s a bit silly to suggest a coach has a responsibility to be suspicious of anyone who shows good improvements over a short period of time. Not saying he is innocent at all but you need a bit better evidence then that to throw around accusations lol
I didnt see the part in icarus where his performance went backwards. He just kept pushing and pushing mate. The amount of training these pros do, they will notice the difference within that 1st week or so. Not just performance but also quicker recovery which means they can go harder again!
@@PhiyackYuh in Icarus he performed worse the following year (for a variety of reasons) but I think the point is EPO isn’t something that just transforms you into a super human. It’s a marginal advantage (I believe the consensus is around 5% but I could be wrong there). I just don’t see how a coach would be able to notice that from remote coaching as I would guess most athletes would fluctuate up and down 5 to 10% all the time throughout a season.
As a general comment long distance triathlon is a very tough sport. The training requirements for the elites are enormous and lead to a "monk like" existence of eat, train, sleep, repeat. There were 55 Pro Men on the start line at Kona in 2022! For a very few there was a huge payday and ongoing publicity and sponsorship while for some who finished towards the bottom of the list of Pros I suspect that they either broke even or lost money on their trip to Kona. Female endurance athletes work just as hard for less rewards and recognition. Long distance triathletes and marathon runners (and other endurance athletes) can only perform at their best a few times a year. A little bit of bad luck like a puncture can spoil your day. The percentage difference between first and 20th is tiny. The temptation to push the envelope to gain that small advantage is huge. I suspect there will always be doping in sports.
It's just a shame that there are people that call themselves "athletes" that believe doping is a decision they should make. I do not understand why these people do not get banned for life. Who will believe him ever agian, that he is clean, even if nothing will be found in 3 years?
Guilty by association sounds reasonable at first. But if you think about it, why would Mikal Iden and the Norwegians risk exposing a dark doping scandal after winning gold medals and Ironman world championships and millions of $$ just to help a nobody American? That would be the dumbest move ever.
I had an interesting back and forth with Mikel, he of course tried to debunk my theories with his hocus pocus science, if it is too good to be true then it usually is...
I would guess Chartier has considered this many times and learned how to do it long ago. It sounds unlikely that Iden started him on EPO after they have worked together for such a short period. It is also impossible for him to prove his innocence, as one can't prove a negative.
I absolutely love him, and I can completely believe he had not clue what was going on, but didn't Collin say he lived with Lionel for several months? It's not the bump in Collin's performance that Mikal or Lionel should have seen, but the flat observation of what was in the refrigerator at Lionel's house. This is the what makes me believe it was post-season. The PTO Dallas makes me think it was all-season.
His associates have some explaining to do if he doesn’t explain They were living together for months leading up to Kona then it all broke down Now they are acting surprised
If Collin was taking EPO before Kona, surely his performance by coming 20+ amongst pros, would put him off taking more EPO! I think his explanation of the pressure of achieving after that totally shocking result, pushed him over the edge to take the slippery slope decision. He also said he wasn't enjoying the sport, so maybe subconsciously he wanted to get caught. Why research how to take EPO, but then fail to research how to mask it?!?! There was no way he could get away with it long term. So he shot himself in the foot. But that's where my belief in his explanation ends. I think he's protecting 1 or more athletes by not naming and shaming. It's VERY unlikely he did the administering etc all by himself. Let's hope they retest his PTO and IM samples to eliminate all doubts and confirm he didn't start until after Kona. If it was before Kona, then all bets are off and the house of cards will sure crumble!
Not sure what i think of Mikel but my guess is he started taking. Got good. Won $100k. Then thought he should stop as his profile raised. Sucked at Kona then restarted....
He worked with these things.. he knows a lot. "He studied at Marymount University in the Malek School of Health Professions and is passionate in exercise physiology, overuse injury pathology, and human performance. He completed research at the Health and Human Performance Kinesiology Lab. He conducted a research study on the hemopoietic and anthropometric measures of human performance in varsity elite triathletes and cross-country runners."
Be careful throwing Collin under the bus so soon. If he were to turn and become a whistleblower you will be making a video about how he is a hero. He stuffed up, no doubt about it. He knows it and now has to live with it for the rest of his life. I've done that as well, and many of us have. I got close to ending my life because of it. Collin is a human being and his mental health is important too, and in time the good may well come from this aka Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton and many of the other US Postal Merry Men.
do you mean like Floyd Landis who got thrown out of the Tour de France for doping after an extraordinary performance and denied taking drugs for years before he was faced with overwhelming evidence and then admitted it?
Endurance Athlete who has never been a serious contender suddenly produces amazing performances and beats all the established athletes who have been the best in their sport for a long time and then gets busted for doping! Where have a heard this story before?
I am against doping but wondering what have you ever acheived to be on the high horse against Colin. Stop taking whatever you are taking....you talk too much.
Lactate testing proves Iden is in on it. Also Collin confessing and not providing any useful facts and disappearing further implicates those around him. Stupid amounts of money in sport is why this will never go away. (Not specifically triathlon but the money is still pretty good)
It is very strange to get caught for using EPO. It's such an antic doping method that the ones who get caught for EPO are "unknown" athletes. Doctors and athletes know how to take EPO with no rsk of being caught since more than 10 years. If they get caught, they argue that the meat they ate was contaminated. I think that tehre are more cheaters in triathlon, even more in age groups where there are no controls. At the end, sadly, who cares if they are doping because it's almost impossible to detect. I think that athletes themselves know who is cheating and who is not. And we are not talking about technological doping in bike segments.... Cheers and thanks for the video. You will not gain a lot of pro friends with your statement I guess. Good luck.
I don't wanna be the negative Nancy, because the story is such a positive comeback, but I don't think the Tim O'Donnell heart attack is discussed enough with possibly being attributed to EPO use
I see your angle. Not all heart attacks are the same. And TO is still the same as he was before. Collin is 5x better than he ever was prior to 2022. One recovered, the other enhanced. If TO came back and podiumed at 70.3 Worlds, then we should attribute it to medical enhancement.
@@TheDomLouis finished 2nd in Kona in 2019, had his heart issue in early 2021 I believe. The only reason why I even brought it up is because I believe it's a side effect of prolonged use of EPO not an acute issue. He podiumed in kona in 2015 as well so I guess it wouldn't be that uncommon for at the time a 39 yr old not named Jan to finish 2nd at the world championship a few years later
@@abuckeye26 Surely he's part of a testing pool?? Though if we factor in he was the sole bread winner in the family while Miranda was looking after some toddlers a few years ago, maybe that might have pushed him down that slippery EPO slope. Hard to tell. I just would have expected IM to have caught him by now, if he was dirty. But who knows??
I don't think TO is a suspect just because of who he is (Kienle either). 2. I was unaware of that side effect. 3. Go look up Collin in the USAT scores.
A quick background search would show that CC had a very useful academic background to be able to administer/understand the dynamics of EPO usage. I feel like this is very important context you missed in this video prep.
I personally feel there is a big difference between studying human performance / sports consultation and actually having the capability to exicute this. Of course he would have an undertaking of EPO but that is still far off being a doctor and having the capabilities to exicute this with as little risk as possible… althiugh you’ve got a great point and I should have included this. This still doesn’t in my opinion change either the time scale being off or the coaching team not noticing changes in performance in training.
Yeah I’m sure it was his academic background that taught him to dope and not other professional triathletes
Of course there is a difference between studying it and performing this on yourself. However in this case the point is still very valid as he was extremely experienced in the mechanics around blood sampling/collecting, red blood cells monitoring etc. AND working with human subjects as his LinkedIn profile outlines. This is NOT your average prof triathlete who just did some Google searches with zero qualifications!
I don’t buy the Mikel Iden argument, you don’t start taking EPO and then the next month your performance goes through the roof. Watch Icarus these improvements take a long time to show up and sometimes performance can even go backward before it goes upward.
Mikel Iden is pretty much a remote coach that only saw him at training camps and checks in once a week. I think it’s a bit silly to suggest a coach has a responsibility to be suspicious of anyone who shows good improvements over a short period of time.
Not saying he is innocent at all but you need a bit better evidence then that to throw around accusations lol
I didnt see the part in icarus where his performance went backwards. He just kept pushing and pushing mate. The amount of training these pros do, they will notice the difference within that 1st week or so. Not just performance but also quicker recovery which means they can go harder again!
@@PhiyackYuh in Icarus he performed worse the following year (for a variety of reasons) but I think the point is EPO isn’t something that just transforms you into a super human. It’s a marginal advantage (I believe the consensus is around 5% but I could be wrong there). I just don’t see how a coach would be able to notice that from remote coaching as I would guess most athletes would fluctuate up and down 5 to 10% all the time throughout a season.
As a general comment long distance triathlon is a very tough sport. The training requirements for the elites are enormous and lead to a "monk like" existence of eat, train, sleep, repeat. There were 55 Pro Men on the start line at Kona in 2022! For a very few there was a huge payday and ongoing publicity and sponsorship while for some who finished towards the bottom of the list of Pros I suspect that they either broke even or lost money on their trip to Kona. Female endurance athletes work just as hard for less rewards and recognition. Long distance triathletes and marathon runners (and other endurance athletes) can only perform at their best a few times a year. A little bit of bad luck like a puncture can spoil your day. The percentage difference between first and 20th is tiny. The temptation to push the envelope to gain that small advantage is huge. I suspect there will always be doping in sports.
I have an unrelated question, what is your thoughts of the covid vaccines, do you think it’s as safe as taking EPO? Cheers. I’m pro PED use in sports.
It's just a shame that there are people that call themselves "athletes" that believe doping is a decision they should make. I do not understand why these people do not get banned for life. Who will believe him ever agian, that he is clean, even if nothing will be found in 3 years?
Very true
probably the most interesting video I've seen about the recent scandal. And you don't even have a triathlon setup in your background 😅
Lol thanks for the comment just thought it would be better to just talk with the plain wall 😂😂😂😂
Guilty by association sounds reasonable at first. But if you think about it, why would Mikal Iden and the Norwegians risk exposing a dark doping scandal after winning gold medals and Ironman world championships and millions of $$ just to help a nobody American? That would be the dumbest move ever.
a super valid point !
I had an interesting back and forth with Mikel, he of course tried to debunk my theories with his hocus pocus science, if it is too good to be true then it usually is...
I would guess Chartier has considered this many times and learned how to do it long ago. It sounds unlikely that Iden started him on EPO after they have worked together for such a short period. It is also impossible for him to prove his innocence, as one can't prove a negative.
I’m sure he learned it long ago and learned more once he worked with Iden. If you think any of Idens athletes are clean you’re an idiot.
Epo by itself is not a game changer, but part of a cocktail, can be powerful.
interesting comment.. what can you mix it with, I think lance had EPO and HGH when he took it, can you combine more than the two of these
@@theolliebonnietriathlonsho6558 steroids, testosterone, hgh, immune boosting, etc,etc
We will never know everything lance was doing.
wrong
I absolutely love him, and I can completely believe he had not clue what was going on, but didn't Collin say he lived with Lionel for several months? It's not the bump in Collin's performance that Mikal or Lionel should have seen, but the flat observation of what was in the refrigerator at Lionel's house. This is the what makes me believe it was post-season. The PTO Dallas makes me think it was all-season.
Very interesting
His associates have some explaining to do if he doesn’t explain
They were living together for months leading up to Kona then it all broke down
Now they are acting surprised
completely agree someone has to say something and go into way way way more detail than has been currently been said !
If Collin was taking EPO before Kona, surely his performance by coming 20+ amongst pros, would put him off taking more EPO!
I think his explanation of the pressure of achieving after that totally shocking result, pushed him over the edge to take the slippery slope decision. He also said he wasn't enjoying the sport, so maybe subconsciously he wanted to get caught. Why research how to take EPO, but then fail to research how to mask it?!?! There was no way he could get away with it long term. So he shot himself in the foot.
But that's where my belief in his explanation ends. I think he's protecting 1 or more athletes by not naming and shaming. It's VERY unlikely he did the administering etc all by himself. Let's hope they retest his PTO and IM samples to eliminate all doubts and confirm he didn't start until after Kona. If it was before Kona, then all bets are off and the house of cards will sure crumble!
@@TheDomLouis super interesting point there to be fair ! 👍 let’s see how it unfolds
Not sure what i think of Mikel but my guess is he started taking. Got good. Won $100k. Then thought he should stop as his profile raised. Sucked at Kona then restarted....
Agree 100% Coach either knew or was involved
He worked with these things.. he knows a lot.
"He studied at Marymount University in the Malek School of Health Professions and is passionate in exercise physiology, overuse injury pathology, and human performance.
He completed research at the Health and Human Performance Kinesiology Lab. He conducted a research study on the hemopoietic and anthropometric measures of human performance in varsity elite triathletes and cross-country runners."
its incredibly easy to find EPO online. administration of the drug... not so clear cut.
completely agree
Be careful throwing Collin under the bus so soon. If he were to turn and become a whistleblower you will be making a video about how he is a hero. He stuffed up, no doubt about it. He knows it and now has to live with it for the rest of his life. I've done that as well, and many of us have. I got close to ending my life because of it. Collin is a human being and his mental health is important too, and in time the good may well come from this aka Floyd Landis, Tyler Hamilton and many of the other US Postal Merry Men.
do you mean like Floyd Landis who got thrown out of the Tour de France for doping after an extraordinary performance and denied taking drugs for years before he was faced with overwhelming evidence and then admitted it?
Charter researched this as part of his undergraduate course. He's effectively and expert. So it's possible he did it on his own.
EPO will increase performance but it’s marginal gains. Coach wouldn’t necessarily know looking at training performance.
His story makes zero sense
very true
Endurance Athlete who has never been a serious contender suddenly produces amazing performances and beats all the established athletes who have been the best in their sport for a long time and then gets busted for doping! Where have a heard this story before?
slow down bro
are you suggesting he's on the juice too? because thats what I thought🙂
Relax and speak slowly
I am against doping but wondering what have you ever acheived to be on the high horse against Colin. Stop taking whatever you are taking....you talk too much.
Yeahhhh what a comment ! Much love to you aswell my friend.. go and smash life !
Sounds like this hit a trigger point
Whoa, where'd that come from..
Spent a lot of time in Girona around pro cyclists 🤔
Lactate testing proves Iden is in on it. Also Collin confessing and not providing any useful facts and disappearing further implicates those around him. Stupid amounts of money in sport is why this will never go away. (Not specifically triathlon but the money is still pretty good)
It is very strange to get caught for using EPO. It's such an antic doping method that the ones who get caught for EPO are "unknown" athletes. Doctors and athletes know how to take EPO with no rsk of being caught since more than 10 years. If they get caught, they argue that the meat they ate was contaminated. I think that tehre are more cheaters in triathlon, even more in age groups where there are no controls. At the end, sadly, who cares if they are doping because it's almost impossible to detect. I think that athletes themselves know who is cheating and who is not. And we are not talking about technological doping in bike segments.... Cheers and thanks for the video. You will not gain a lot of pro friends with your statement I guess. Good luck.
I don't wanna be the negative Nancy, because the story is such a positive comeback, but I don't think the Tim O'Donnell heart attack is discussed enough with possibly being attributed to EPO use
I see your angle. Not all heart attacks are the same. And TO is still the same as he was before. Collin is 5x better than he ever was prior to 2022. One recovered, the other enhanced. If TO came back and podiumed at 70.3 Worlds, then we should attribute it to medical enhancement.
Interesting point. He had his best ever result at Kona, didn't he, a few months before or have I messed up my timeline ??
@@TheDomLouis finished 2nd in Kona in 2019, had his heart issue in early 2021 I believe. The only reason why I even brought it up is because I believe it's a side effect of prolonged use of EPO not an acute issue. He podiumed in kona in 2015 as well so I guess it wouldn't be that uncommon for at the time a 39 yr old not named Jan to finish 2nd at the world championship a few years later
@@abuckeye26 Surely he's part of a testing pool?? Though if we factor in he was the sole bread winner in the family while Miranda was looking after some toddlers a few years ago, maybe that might have pushed him down that slippery EPO slope. Hard to tell. I just would have expected IM to have caught him by now, if he was dirty. But who knows??
I don't think TO is a suspect just because of who he is (Kienle either). 2. I was unaware of that side effect. 3. Go look up Collin in the USAT scores.
tweaker
Excellent !! 👍🏼
i agree with you 100%
however i think given time, those who were associated with colin will be free and people will forget and move on
He helped a lot many people to creat a content and sell it in TH-cam..you guys should be appreciated he gave you a reason to gather 5k view for this
100% agree! Too many holes in the story for my liking..
Well said
Thanks for the comment 👍