A36 Bonanza Engine Failure From Cruise Flight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2019
- FlyWire takes a look at Engine Failure from Cruise Flight. We're going to use ForeFlight's Glide Ring. Will we make it? What's the best descent profile to use. Check it out.
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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Exactly what we demonstrate on BPPP flights, Gunny. Best glide is 5 degrees nose down, 110 knots before- pulling the propeller control fully aft and 1500-1700 rpm rate of descent. After”pulling the prop,” it takes about level attitude, 110 knots and 900-1000 rpm. As you said,, low rpm, if you have oil pressure, is 30 to 50 percent better glide performance. Well done, Gunny.
This was an excellent video. The sink rate was much higher than I thought it would be. How heavy were you when you tried this? Really enjoying your channel! Thanks for sharing this.
In 1967 my dad rented a beech 33 Debonair which I believe is very similar to 33 Bonanza. He flew our family of five from Manitoba to Nova Scotia and back but over the great lakes. I was only 8 years old and my mother was very scared.
Good stuff, Scott, keep 'em coming. In an actual engine-out situation, it seems like it would be worth it to pull the prop back and slow down until the engine stops completely---but only if you're several thousand feet up. If you're high enough, the reduced drag from gliding with the prop stopped will more than offset the losses due to flying slower than best glide for a few seconds. As a glider pilot from way back with a few hundred A36 hours in recent years, and at my favored cruising altitudes (12,000', plus or minus), in the case of a total loss of power I think that's what I'd do. It takes a few seconds of slow flight to get the prop to stop windmilling, but the advantage of achieving a stable glide with a lower sink rate (significantly less than the 1000fpm you saw with the prop pulled back) is a big win when it comes to having a little more time to make decisions and a little more range to pick a suitable field.
With training and practice comes the presence of mind to do the things you suggest. Train like you plan to fight.... err, that was another life;)
Great video, Scott. I think of the windmilling prop as large trash can lid into the wind. Prop to low RPM is very important. Safe travels!
Scott, the attention getter happened to one of my students in his Turbo Arrow at cruise. He had a full boat and on top IFR when his engine shook a little. Nothing indicated but a little wiggle of the oil px. He made the rest of the one hour flight home overflying two airports that were below mins. I arrived the next day to check his plane with him and the oil px dropped after runup. Back to the shop. The traiiling edge of the rear counterweight crankshaft boss had fractured and left the leading edge (of crank rotation) attached. What luck. (I had a c/w try to chase me out of the cockpit of a new 421 once on takeoff). $53,000 later, my former student still flies his Arrow, and is a captain for a regional carrier and is still teaching. FATE IS THE HUNTER-- Gann
Great story Dick! thanks!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Scott, there's a great 1950's video by the USAF titled "No Sweat." F-86 driver make numerous mistakes but lives. I showed it to a local flying club and at the Q&A, a young Cirrus driver said, "what does that have to do with us? We don't fly the F-86." The older pilots pounded on him. The other is "Density Altitude and Harry Bliss," a 1960s FAA film about Harry's new Bonanza. I'm sure you've seen both. But the films are still relavent. Tailwinds, DJ
Thanks for these tips Scott. On my last flight review the instructor cut the throttle mid down wind with the gear down and we barely made the runway. The Bonanza G36 is a very poor glider in the configuration with the prop forward. At 110 kts all you see is the ground.
As a new A36 pilot I'm loving you channel Scott! If you find yourself in Iowa let me know!
Wilco. I will be there one of these days!
Love this series Scott. Keep them coming. One quick question........what’s the background on the name of your channel, fly wire?
Steve- I'll try to make the story short. I was on Tom Gresham's TV show 'Wings to Adventure', loved it. At the time I was writing for several aviation mags. A few years back some friends and I got together and cooked up the idea of a completely online flying magazine... I chose the name FlyWire. The idea didn't fly, so when I decided to try a TH-cam Channel I wanted it to be FlyWire, very much based on my experience with Wings to adventure and the Magazines. I hope you continue to enjoy it! So far it's been fun.
It seems as though it is best to use 81 knots as the best glide speed too. With the prop full back at 110 kts and 1000 fpm descent and no winds it would take 5 minutes to reach the ground and we would cover 9.17 nm horizontally. At 81 kts and 720 fpm descent and no winds it would take 6.94 minutes and cover 9.38 nm horizontally. This is true also for tail winds - the 81 knots will cover more ground. Once there is a headwind the calculus changes a little since the headwind is a higher percentage of 81 kts cf 110 kts. With a 20 kt headwind, at 110 kts there would be 7.5 nm covered horizontally and at 81 kts 7.06 nm. So unless there is a significant headwind it is probably best to set 81 as the best glide speed too (of course each pilot should check the sink rate at different airspeeds).
One other gremlin though, to try to restart the engine the props will be forward so the rate of descent will be higher. Spending a lot of time on trying to restart the engine does eat into the time aloft.
Paul- I'm actually planning a video determining Best Glide at various weights. It is not as easy as finding Min Sink. I'm going to do it with the Skywagon because that wing is heavily modified and factory numbers really don't apply anymore.
A couple of points on your selected glide speed. First, lightly loaded, your best glide speed is slower than book (computed for gross weight). In his excellent book “The Proficient Pilot”, Barry Schiff says to decrease glide speed 5% for each 10% you are below gross weight. Second, when gliding into a headwind, you need to increase glide speed. Think of it this way: If you have a 110 knot headwind and glide at the 110 knot best glide speed, you will go nowhere. You will need to increase speed to make distance over the ground. Schiff suggests increasing best glide speed by 50% of the headwind component. For a tailwind, decrease your glide speed to reduce sink rate and give the tailwind more time to help you out. Schiff says to reduce best glide by 4, 6, or 8 knots for tailwinds of 10, 20, and 30 knots, respectively. In your example these effects essentially canceled out and 110 was probably about right.
You have good points, but in my view Human Factors trump all of it. When the s... hits the fan, a lot of options create confusion at the worst possible time. And the reality is the difference in performance is slim. The real goal is to get on the ground safely, not go as far as you can.
Once the engine quits it’s the insurance companies airplane
Don’t try to save the plane save your but
This acutally DID happen to me in REAL LIFE in a Bonanza. It was a 13 year old medium time V-Tail Bonanza with the 285hp IO-520 Continental engine. I was at 10,500 feet, the engine ran rough for about 4 or 5 seconds, then it locked up! (Had swallowed a rod but I didn't know that at time, all I knew was that it failed). I was over the Everglades at night! Headed for Ft Lauderdale, and was bout 31 miles from Boca Raton airport. I called Ft Laud approach, didn't have all those fancy instruments back then in 1979, to tell me nearest airport. Approach Control said advsied Boca was closest, and gave me radar vector. I approached at a slower speed than this A36, I was coming down at 90 mph indicated. Was loosing about 1000' per minute at that speed. I could see the Boca runway, and was about 8-10 miles out when I was down at 1000' and knew I was not going to make it. I could see a highway below me. Lined up with it, but realized traffic was a little too thick to have confidence in landing safely between cars. Praying profusely. At last minute or last 30 seconds of this 9 1/2 minute glide, I saw a white spot off to my right, not sure if it was a rectangular pond that they call lakes and build 20 houses around them or what, but I thought that was better than hitting a car. As I turned toward it, it was a full moon and I could see it was a clearing. Tried to put landing gear down, and it would not go down (which was fortunate!). As I barely made it over the last house to barely reach the clearing, flying just about rooftop level, the plane stalled and I fell about 15' to a very hard landing, and only slid 40 feet in the soft white sand. Came to a stop, with just a few cuts and bruises and very sore fanny, but got out and hugged the ground and said "Terra Firma Thank you Lord!". Looked ahead of the sliding path on the sand, saw this huge dark wall, walked over to it , and it was a 6' tall blade hiding the largest bulldozer behind it that I had ever seen! It took a while for anyone to show up, but finally about 40 police, sherrif, and highway patrol cars all showed up in one long parade. Then 4 helicopters landed within next 2 minutes, last one was Coast Guard Chopper, first 3 were TV News Choppers. Some people walked over at that point, and said I flew so low across their back yard where they were outside barbequeing that they could have touched the tail of my plane. I said why didn't you come over and see if I was OK, they said I hit down so hard they knew no one could have survived. The next day I was powerlines all over the highway I was trying to land on, it was 441, and I would have never made it thru that alive. The people who owned the property came out, and asked me if I had any idea how lucky I was, I said a pretty good idea. They told me more! They said 2 weeks earlier that property was solid trees, and 3 weeks later it was going to be solid mobile homes! God was with me in a big way. I later found out that over 750 Continental IO-540s at that time had failed and lead to IN FLIGHT engine failures and subsequent crashes!!! I will not fly a Continental IO-520 single engine at night, IFR, or in bad weather ever again. The plane was totalled. But I walked away mostly unhurt. Bought a Baron after that. It was my favorite plane. Howard Harley
Howard- that is an awesome story! Thanks for sharing and God indeed was looking after you that night!!!
Incredible story. God was with you - congrats!
My grandpa just died in one. His engine failed right from takeoff as he was departing up to 11k feet the his engine failed. He landed good but he hit the wing which exploded and he had to get out on that side which made him burn to death
Hi Scott,
Like what you’re doing here. You’n I could sit and hangar fly for hours about engine out thinking. Three forced landings in three different Cessna TU-206 aircraft during my flying career. No bent metal yet. It’s a subject near and dear to me.
My grandpa just crashed his Beechcraft a36. Engine failure and he died from it
Not a Bonanza guy, but that initial speed with a 6-7 degree nose down pitch attitude seems fast and the VSI shows it. A speed between Vx and Vy with the nose closer to the horizon might be more effective, particularly when the weight is less than gross.
Try it Manny and let us know what you find. I am really putting this out there so more guys try things out in their airplanes to know them better. What works for you? Would love to know the results!
FlyWire- scott perdue My Vg is 80 MPH. Vx is 75 and Vy is 100 and I have gear legs and 8.50’s hanging out on my 185. Flap gap seals have made a noticeable difference in extending glide performance, and I suspect the WingX extensions have, also. My pitch attitude isn’t as nose low as in your Bo when at Vg.
What numerical setting do u put in ForeFlight for glide ring
For awhile I put a shorter range, but Foreflight resets it and that becomes a pain. To me the glide ring is SA, not a real tool for an actual event.
Audio check please sir - thanks
Best glide in the book is for gross weight try more like 80 knots when light with the prop pulled back.
David- Maybe, try it out and let us know what you find.
What is 110 Kts = related to other aircraft
A bit faster than most of its class.
Foreflight glide advisor is just going to encourage poor decision-making when people give up excellent opportunities for survival below them for a poorly calculated chance at an airport landing.
I say that as someone who uses actual glide computers for sport and has landed in a field or two.
Slowing to minimum sink on final only can make your undershoot worse. That's a typical reaction that needs to be trained out of pilots and leads to loss of control accidents.
I agree, I am more of a hands on flyer. ForeFlight's Glide Ring is a thing and folks are using it. I wanted to show where it is useful. I'm pretty sure I spoke about Min Sink being to slow for the approach. Undershoot is a risk, but from what I've seen overshoot is a real issue as well. Thanks for watching and your comments!
Bonanzas are wonderful flying machines... until they loose an engine, then they drop like a rock
I asure you there are worse single engine gliders out there!