Scott, I'd like to pass on a technique to significantly extend the glide which I learned 40 odd years ago. While on downwind at the completion of a flight review in a Pa28R, the CFI cut the engine with the mixture and said "now show me a forced landing on the runway." The landing with the engine shut down worked out fine, however the important takeaway from this was to learn that the glide could be significantly extended by pulling the prop to full coarse pitch: the reduced drag from the prop disc was such that you could actually feel the aircraft accelerate. That lesson was learned many years ago in outback Australia and I think it's safe to say such a demonstration today would be regarded as foolish and dangerous - however I think it's an aspect of aerodynamics that pilots need to be aware of in case they find themselves undershooting during a forced landing. Another tip: Vx approximates min sink. Vy approximates best glide range. Thanks for your great contribution to aviation safety.
Pulling the prop back is a good idea. In most of my videos on engine failures I don't do that because most folks don't do it for real. The difference in the Bonanza is 1500 FPM prop at cruise and 1000 FPM with the prop pulled back. I've got several videos on pulling it back as well. I'm pretty much on the fence on pulling the mixture... you give yourself an emergency and reduce your options. There is good and bad. Thanks for watching! By the way using Vx and Vy as proxies does not work across GA.
Great video. We're all taught not to try to stretch a glide and I've always wondered why so many dead-stick landers do. I think you hit on it exactly, it's the intimidation of seeing the inhospitable ground rushing up and the natural desire to keep flying past it. It's a time when our minds have to overrule our hearts.
Scott how does it feel to be immortal... This beautiful videos will be forever. Preserved Online for generations to come. Thank you for your service. You're not only educational but entertaining with your dry humor. I get choked up sometimes just watching you dissect some of these accidents. Keep up the good work as long as god ables.
Great video. I love how I'm way more nervous watching Scott make the plane stall, roll, go vertical/inverted, and recover than Scott is actually doing it! I watch the horizon fall away and my stomach sinks, Scott's attitude is he's just sitting in his hangar imparting wisdom to us :)
I flew gliders many years ago. And I think it must be an imperative step to be a pilot. When a plane pilot loses his engine he lives an unexpected an abnormal situation, a real nightmare. He feels in present danger, maybe panicked. He will try to restart the engine, to mayday, to locate the nearer arfield in the chart, to strecht the glide path, etc. For a glider pilot is just another day at the office: look outside for the best LZ available and, once located, mayday while fly the glidepath to do his best in the dead stick landing.
I'm not a pilot (ex Navy ship guy,) but I agree, and have heard several pilots with glider experience atest to your observation. US Air Force Academy used to teach cadets how to fly gliders several decades ago for similar reasons. I don't know if they still do, or if they gave up on that part of fundamentals.
Stall/spin training in a cessna 150 aerobat was a very enlightening and scary experience. It’s amazing how quickly you are looking straight down at the ground and how much altitude is required to recover. It taught me to never get slow below 1000 ft agl, because there is no chance of recovery. More pilots should seek out additional training above and beyond what is required to get a ppl.
Nice video, my only suggestion is to get a prop filter for ur camera, makes the prop disappear. It’s just a piece of tinted material, anything will do. Try it
It is hard to avoid flying slow at low altitude if you want to land. Otherwise I don't see a reason to fly slow at low altitude if you are flying for utility.
I did my flight training in a 1974 C-150 Aerobat. My flight instructor taught me stall spin recovery in VFR conditions as well as under the hood and a few times at night. This was in 1988 when the aerobat rented for $35 wet.
I think you're right. This video illustrates how fast you wound in this situation. It is much better to try to go for a controlled crash. In view of how many accidents occur from the stall-spin situation, it would be a good preventive action to include it in the training syllabus.
Scott, what a awesome video !!!!!! it scared the hell out of me whaching the plane drive its self into the ground....as a privet pilot for 40+ years and operating various other machines the words "Fly it until you reach 10 feet past the wreck" comes to me each time. Drive a 18 wheeled truck on the roads today and you will soon come to realize that 40 tons don't stop on a dime and you have to drive it past the wrecks. GREAT Video ....Thank you
If any of you want to really learn how to handle an engine out, get an experienced flight instructor to pull the power on 2/3 downwind and proceed to land without touching the power. You'll learn real quick what ground rush feels like and to respect your best glide speed. Of course do this at a quiet time at the airport and make sure the tower is aware of what you will be practicing as your approach will resemble a carrier approach, no defined base or final approach leg. This taught me to respect the best glide airspeed and to know my airplane, there is no substitute for experience. It also teaches how far you can expect to glide your bird with no stretches allowed unless you want to wreck your mount and terminate your existence. Enough said.
I was in the pattern at KLAL when this happened. I was cleared number 3 to land in the right downwind for 9. Heard both guys on coms... it was crazy. Rip to the one gentlemen who passed.
Now I know why my POH said, "best glide 83mph, use 95mph for engine failure....room for the flare! That was one hell of stall in your video! Most of us never take it that far! Scared me just watching it.
Amazing content! Thank you for taking us up in your beechcraft to demonstrate how important this issue is and help us future and current pilots to keep this training in our permanent memory's.
I've looked at a lot of your videos over the last few weeks. My interest has been to learn as much as I can before starting flight training later this year. My biggest take away, from a lot of your presentations has been that stick and rudder and intelligent flying is the most important skills to learn. With all this in mind, I'm looking at gliding schools first, to learn the muscle memory skills before I try to do the work on the other skills. I appreciate that powered aircraft have extra complexities, but if I have the basics of flight hard wired in, I'll progress on from that grounding.
As a glider pilot, I learned the “fence hopping” maneuver. When you’re coming up short, dive for the ground so you’re in ground effect, and that’ll help you hop over the fence at the end of the runway.
I think the AQP guideline of defined minimum maneuvering speed (DMMS) is clearly the standard to shoot for here. Don’t go below it until you’re about to smack the ground.
Hey Scott I really enjoy your videos. I’m a low time pilot “220hrs”. I own a M35 and love it. I was able to buy it and get my license in my plane. I think as pilots we don’t practice slow flight enough. As pilots time grows it appears to me that the simple basics of training are ignored by most GA pilots. That translates into the stall spin at 300 AGL. Also I fly down wind and base at 100 MPH. I start to slow below that at 1/2 mile final. This video shows me that I need to practice more at slower speeds to stay proficient at slow flight power off. I m constantly telling myself to fly the plane all the way into the crash. I think that saves lives as much as anything. Thanks
Very good demonstration of how the classic stall-spin accident develops. And how fast it comes. As this video shows, it is impossible to recover the Bonanza in less than 10-1200 ft.
Good video Scott. On another note, I loved your Little A’Le’Inn T-Shirt at the beginning of the video (pt. 2)! I’ve had several “extraterrestrial “ burgers there when we were doing road construction on the Extraterrestrial Highway years ago, brought back some good memories!! Anyway, I always enjoy your videos and learn a lot from them so thank you very much for doing them.
I know when I crashed a motorcycle, I was consciously letting go of various parts of my body as I slid in an effort to save the more essential parts of it. You have to just accept that you're not getting out of it without getting hurt so you use the peripheral things, be they parts of the vehicle or parts of your body, to help absorb some of the energy. You might still not make it out alive but that gives you your best chance once you know that you're crashing no matter what you do.
Appreciate your coverage. My early learning was in a Piper Colt - (Flying Rock) I learned immediately to focus on any alternative that may minimize a crash landing. My first, instructor initiated, dead stick landing would have come up far short of the Runway, but knowing the takeoff / landing capabilities of the Colt, I set a landing diagonal across he runway into an un-tilled stretch of field. My instructor aborted the landing and told me I was either confident or crazy(to be decided later) and the test was intended to fail. 2 weekends later, while prepping my plane for my he barely missed the top of the hanger line as he landed the Twin to my Colt Diagonal to the runway. The spinner and Cowling had exploded off on the downwind approach.
Thanks Scott. It reinforces a point that I am trying to teach my fellow air traffic controllers about what "stretching the glide" means and why it MIGHT -- MIGHT -- be a good idea for controllers to reminds pilots with engine failures to "do not try to stretch the glide." In some situations, I think it would be helpful for controllers to say this. Thoughts from you or anyone who reads this comment would be appreciated.
Very interesting and thanks for that very detailed and informative analysis. You are saving lives here just wish most GA pilots would get interest in videos like this. And most importantly train for situations like that at altitude to get a feel of how the aircraft behaves.
Brilliant vid! In the UK most PFLs go around at 500ft, but then you don't experience the dangers of ground rush. My instructor made me do a number of forced landings on the airfield. This was invaluable to experience the natural reaction (wrong reaction) to pull up too much degrading airspeed at very low altitude.
An instructor once told me that pilots should be trained on sailplanes 1st, it gives a nice base of...well, gliders. Everything glides, even an F-104, or the Gimli Glider!
Made my intended landing point by inches in a glider once, had an alternate field picked out but went with primary anyway. Never want to cut it that close again.
First time I've seen this. Looked like you were upside down a few times. I have a much better appreciation of 'Ground Rush' now. That's exactly what it is. I was feeling panicked sitting on my non-moving couch!
Fantastic video! Based on some of the comments, I think some pilots haven't experienced a stall initiated from that slow of an airspeed. That they've just done the standard power off stall, from normal approach speed. I think it leads some into thinking they can fly closer to that edge than they think, that they'll have plenty of warning, and it's just not so. The other think I think is that some people have a completely unrealistic idea of what their glide distance is. I learned that from flying a Cherokee, which was described to me by an instructor as having the glide distance of a sewing machine. It's a fairly accurate comparison. As you say, physics always wins. Adjust your flying to suit the math.
Fascinating and a little terrifying lol. Im a new subscriber here but long time enthusiast. I only "fly" fpv RC airplanes but I have stalled them. More than once in-fact 😎
Everybody knows. The problem: not everybody is able to brutally adjust expectations of damage and injury when the situation demands it. But thank you for the reinforcement.
Most german pilots in WW2 started on gliders. They were not afraid of power off landings, stalled less, glided after engine fails or shot down more. Less pilot errors overall. Practice short approaches to a point on runway..
Some times I'm amazed. A single engine aircraft stating they have and engine out and the tower gives a runways to chase. Then the pilot not declaring an emergency and not heading straight for the airport grounds. Grass is better than buildings. Aim at center of airport or grounds there with least obstructions.
Very good illustration. Thank you. Wanting to stretch that glide (human instinct) vs physics based training (fact). Good reminder why it's important to fly the #s.
Student pilot here and in my C-182 I have the most docile stalls. It is also possible the do a falling leaf descent with no power without to much trouble. In a populated area with no real areas to land the Falling leaf approach is the least energy way to hit the ground? Stalling into a inverted decent is not something I know how to handle. Upset training in a plane designed for it is in the cards for me.
Isn't your vertical speed pretty high during a falling leaf because you're stalled? Would not be a good way to hit the ground. You have to be carrying enough reserve lift to flare before touchdown to reduce your vertical speed as close as possible to zero. A power-off landing in a single engine plane should be pretty much like a normal landing during the final few seconds.
I’d love to hear your take on the crazy idea of diving and pulling up to extend engine out “glide” that some have claimed would extend distance when dead sticking ... No, I never believed it would work, but some do...
It works in gliders, but not so well in powered airplanes. Powered airplanes have too much drag which equates to wasted energy. I would not suggest doing it.
G'day, Yay Team ! "Stretching the Glide..., to make it back to the Field..." is a bit like the story of the bloke who was assigned to fly Fairey Battles, that said his plan in the event of opposition from Enemy Fighters was that he was going to, "take immediate evasive action...; by unstrapping from the seat & running around in Circles, inside the Cockpit !" The bloke who told it to me had actually flown Fairey Battles, while training, in Oz, in1941 - and he was laughingly aknowledging the underpowered gross unmanouvreability of the Battle, in real life. Years later I attempted to share the joke with a different bloke who had also flown Battles - but opetationally, in May 1940..., when his Flight was the one which tried to fly low up the Albert Canal to bomb the Bridges ; and he never got near the Bridges - Flak caused him to pancake onto the Tow-Path beside the water ; which he said was lucky, because the Me-109s got all of both the Flights trying to bomb from Medium & High level..., but he didn't see the funny side of the "Evasive Action in a Fairey Battle..., joke", at all. Because, like "stretching the Glide"..., it simply is NOT Possible to do that. "But that wouldn't work at all...!" he said, "The Pilot's Cockpit in a Battle is no bigger than that of a Spitfire - there's no room in it to get up and move around, none whatsoever !" Which was why the bloke who only flew them while training thought it was funny - because his point was that attempting to evade Fighters by manouvreing a Battle was at least as impossible as running around inside the "Glasshouse" to avoid incoming Gunfire... Some things simply cannot be done, with Aeroplanes ; and Stretching the Glide is but one of them... It was 40 years ago, but I reckon that I'm pretty lucky to have actually met TWO people who flew Fairey Battles - let alone a survivor of having flown a Battle against the Luftwaffe's Flak Batteries...(!). Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
@@FlyWirescottperdue No worries mate...; it's a pleasure to tell them to somebody with the headspace & mindset required to actually underconstumble and appreciate them...(!) If you feel like being horrified while having a laugh, backtrack me to see the series I started a week ago, beginning with, "Emergency Rescue Recharging Brand-New Deep-Cycle Storage Batteries...!" According to my "Spies" (ie, Subscribers in the Comment Threads) there's a similar "Policy" problem in the US as there is here ; that being Lead/Acid Batteries being factory-filled with Electrolyte, then taking 1 or even up to 2 Months to reach the Retail point of sale..., then sitting with no "Maintenance Charge" for up to 3 more months (!) before being routinely shipped-back for recycling.... So..., guess who just bought 6 new $250 Batteries and discovered & 2 were 40% & 42% self-discharged & sulphated when they arrived, indicating 57 & 61 days' deterioration respectively (losing 0.9% of the stored Charge, per day)..., & the other 4 unitswere 22.5% self-discharged, meaning that they took 28 dayze to arrive...., Grrrrr-Snarrrl...! But, of course, they all had their "Protective" red plastic "No-Tampering Covers " intact and on their Positive terminals, placed insitu to "prove" that the Batteries are definitely "New"....; while in fact those Covers PROVE that the Batteries have been systematically pre-damaged by organised deliberate Neglect, after manufacture and right up to and until the point of sale....(!!!!). Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
Best glide is best glide - anything above or below you sink faster, so right: You can't stretch it - yes physics. Now that's the smartypants in me talking. In a real engine out you will have to fight all the fear and instincts. Brainstem takes control unfortunately. Kudos to your trial spins to get data - Thank you for a great video.
Always good to have real data rather than conjecture. It would be interesting to look at how much difference it makes to pull back the prop in a CS airplane when the engine quits. I suspect that would be one legitimate way to “stretch” the glide.
Flap gap seals make a big difference in increasing gliding distance along with an increased climb rate and faster cruise. Win, win, win…at least they do in our 185.
Best glide assumes still air. You can "stretch your glide" by speeding up in a head wind and or sinking air - or slowing down in lifting air or with a tailwind. Of course, you still need to mind your stall speed.
Use extra airspeed ( minimum maneuvering speed) until very close to the ground so you can maneuver around obstacles at the last second. Remember stall speed increases During yanking and banking. Don’t try to make an airport. Use altitude to convert to airspeed and use airspeed to maneuver to a SURVIVABLE landing. (I’ve survived three off field landings)
Well, technically the stall is induced by excessive angle of attack (approx 15degrees) rather than airspeed, but of course without an engine, the speed will keep dropping as the nose is raised in level flight, however the best glide angle is not at the point of stall! If the wing stalls on one wingtip first, well you’ll get a rapid roll toward the side of the stalled wing and possibly precipitate a spin as discussed here. Finding your best engine off glide angle would be a good thing huh!
Nice thorough examination. How about stretching the glide right after engine out by pulling up until the engine stops windmilling thereby stretching the glide a whole bunch.
Good question.... but one fraught with uncertainty and risk, I'd say that maneuver would require actually trying it out at altitude to see what parameters work. The only problem with that is I'm against giving yourself an actual emergency in a real airplane to practice for a contingency. Add to that normal human reaction and I'd say that anything exotic has a larger potential to make things worse and not better.
All power pilots should try flying gliders either before power flying or after qualifying. You learn to get landings right 1st time every time.........no going round !!
Since WW1 training posters, the message has always been, "DON'T STRETCH THE GLIDE!". Seems obvious because you can't defy the laws of physics. Play the hand you're dealt. Accept that this won't be a the happiest of endings (but that's what you pay insurance for) and just fly to the scene of the crash as best you can. You have some lateral choice on where to crash but never try to crash farther away than the laws of physics let you, and you must know what that limit is. Why is this so hard? Why have 100+ years of training posters not utterly eradicated this type of accident?
Another great video lesson Gunny. Thank you....BTW, I like your setting on the G3X up for the cross bars for flight director cues. Would that work well as the vertical and lateral cues when shooting an ILS (or VNAV) approach?
Gunny - I was surprized by the almost inverted attitude the stall put you in. Is that increased roll more characteristic in a low wing than a high wing type Cessna?
@@ZeeroGamingTV Further, if folks haven't seen it, I recommend Professor Purdue's video where he uses _Simpson's Individual Emperor Stringettes_ to demonstrate that aeronautics is a thing.
There is one place where you can extend the glide . In the ground efect . If you are coming short and the space in front of the landing spot is flat , you can pitch down increase the speed and keep the plane in the ground efect . This will extend the final slide by 50%
Very well explained and demonstrated Gunny - I've always trained to keep flying airspeed on my aircraft and accept a controlled landing outside of an airfield if someday forced due to engine out. Better to walk away.
Scott......Did you do any analysis on the ground distance covered by trying to "stretch the glide" vs flying the same scenario at best glide speed and minimum sink speed? That could be an interesting story as well. Great video by the way. Always very informative!
That would require a comparative set of test runs, totally different objective to the tests I did. The short answer is not much, variable and pretty hard to put anything in your pocket to use if it actually happens to you. The odds of a maneuver like that of having a positive impact is way offset by the message that maybe you can do it... It's better to land under control than the impact the ground out of control.
so easy to say... but trim for best glide and the plane will fly at that speed... and better to fly it into the side of a building than pull back and stall...
@@Hugh1966 When the engine quits the aircraft does not immediately fall out of the sky. Set up for best glide and pick a place to land. And to Scott's point, don't stop flying the aircraft. Flying the aircraft means controlling the aircraft in a manner that is conducive to flight. Landing is the act of flying (controlling) the aircraft all the way to the ground. Scott made some good points. Maybe you could watch the video again?
What about the classic ‘over the fence’ stall. Happens on approach to the airfield fence - pull back and stall to ‘get over’ the fence vs pushing the nose down for a last minute small pull over the fence?
"Fly the plane a far into the crash as possible"; "I'd rather glide into the side of a barn than stall over an open field"; "don't extend the glide". We hear all of these while training. The question is, when you are in an emergency, and the ground gets big in the window, will you be able to resist pulling up on the nose?
Shouldn't every student pilot be given this situation of engine loss too short of the runway with ground rush in a simulator ? Must land short with enough speed to flare instead of stretch it to departure. Hard to learn without experience.
Scott, I'd like to pass on a technique to significantly extend the glide which I learned 40 odd years ago. While on downwind at the completion of a flight review in a Pa28R, the CFI cut the engine with the mixture and said "now show me a forced landing on the runway." The landing with the engine shut down worked out fine, however the important takeaway from this was to learn that the glide could be significantly extended by pulling the prop to full coarse pitch: the reduced drag from the prop disc was such that you could actually feel the aircraft accelerate. That lesson was learned many years ago in outback Australia and I think it's safe to say such a demonstration today would be regarded as foolish and dangerous - however I think it's an aspect of aerodynamics that pilots need to be aware of in case they find themselves undershooting during a forced landing.
Another tip: Vx approximates min sink. Vy approximates best glide range.
Thanks for your great contribution to aviation safety.
Pulling the prop back is a good idea. In most of my videos on engine failures I don't do that because most folks don't do it for real. The difference in the Bonanza is 1500 FPM prop at cruise and 1000 FPM with the prop pulled back. I've got several videos on pulling it back as well. I'm pretty much on the fence on pulling the mixture... you give yourself an emergency and reduce your options. There is good and bad. Thanks for watching! By the way using Vx and Vy as proxies does not work across GA.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Hi Scott, thanks for your reply. Again, sincere thanks for your great contribution to aviation safety!
Great video. We're all taught not to try to stretch a glide and I've always wondered why so many dead-stick landers do. I think you hit on it exactly, it's the intimidation of seeing the inhospitable ground rushing up and the natural desire to keep flying past it. It's a time when our minds have to overrule our hearts.
Scott how does it feel to be immortal... This beautiful videos will be forever. Preserved Online for generations to come. Thank you for your service. You're not only educational but entertaining with your dry humor. I get choked up sometimes just watching you dissect some of these accidents. Keep up the good work as long as god ables.
Great video. I love how I'm way more nervous watching Scott make the plane stall, roll, go vertical/inverted, and recover than Scott is actually doing it! I watch the horizon fall away and my stomach sinks, Scott's attitude is he's just sitting in his hangar imparting wisdom to us :)
I flew gliders many years ago. And I think it must be an imperative step to be a pilot. When a plane pilot loses his engine he lives an unexpected an abnormal situation, a real nightmare. He feels in present danger, maybe panicked. He will try to restart the engine, to mayday, to locate the nearer arfield in the chart, to strecht the glide path, etc.
For a glider pilot is just another day at the office: look outside for the best LZ available and, once located, mayday while fly the glidepath to do his best in the dead stick landing.
I'm not a pilot (ex Navy ship guy,) but I agree, and have heard several pilots with glider experience atest to your observation. US Air Force Academy used to teach cadets how to fly gliders several decades ago for similar reasons.
I don't know if they still do, or if they gave up on that part of fundamentals.
Stall/spin training in a cessna 150 aerobat was a very enlightening and scary experience. It’s amazing how quickly you are looking straight down at the ground and how much altitude is required to recover. It taught me to never get slow below 1000 ft agl, because there is no chance of recovery. More pilots should seek out additional training above and beyond what is required to get a ppl.
Nice video, my only suggestion is to get a prop filter for ur camera, makes the prop disappear. It’s just a piece of tinted material, anything will do. Try it
It is hard to avoid flying slow at low altitude if you want to land. Otherwise I don't see a reason to fly slow at low altitude if you are flying for utility.
I did my flight training in a 1974 C-150 Aerobat. My flight instructor taught me stall spin recovery in VFR conditions as well as under the hood and a few times at night. This was in 1988 when the aerobat rented for $35 wet.
I think you're right. This video illustrates how fast you wound in this situation. It is much better to try to go for a controlled crash.
In view of how many accidents occur from the stall-spin situation, it would be a good preventive action to include it in the training syllabus.
@@guidospaini7339 I think they should bring back spin training, too.
This is the best video showing the effects of extending the glide, thank you Scott.
Scott, what a awesome video !!!!!! it scared the hell out of me whaching the plane drive its self into the ground....as a privet pilot for 40+ years and operating various other machines the words "Fly it until you reach 10 feet past the wreck" comes to me each time. Drive a 18 wheeled truck on the roads today and you will soon come to realize that 40 tons don't stop on a dime and you have to drive it past the wrecks. GREAT Video ....Thank you
If any of you want to really learn how to handle an engine out, get an experienced flight instructor to pull the power on 2/3 downwind and proceed to land without touching the power. You'll learn real quick what ground rush feels like and to respect your best glide speed. Of course do this at a quiet time at the airport and make sure the tower is aware of what you will be practicing as your approach will resemble a carrier approach, no defined base or final approach leg. This taught me to respect the best glide airspeed and to know my airplane, there is no substitute for experience. It also teaches how far you can expect to glide your bird with no stretches allowed unless you want to wreck your mount and terminate your existence. Enough said.
Good point!
Thanks for your hard work. You, Blanco and Dan Gryder are superstars :)
I was in the pattern at KLAL when this happened. I was cleared number 3 to land in the right downwind for 9. Heard both guys on coms... it was crazy. Rip to the one gentlemen who passed.
Now I know why my POH said, "best glide 83mph, use 95mph for engine failure....room for the flare! That was one hell of stall in your video! Most of us never take it that far! Scared me just watching it.
We Gonna do it 3 times he says as he puts up 4 fingers!! Love it. Wonderful educator
Excellent presentation and Demo! When the engine stops you have a finite budget to work with...and Hope is mighty thin soup to live on.
Outstanding video. There is a lot of need to know stuff to survive in all of your videos. Thanks for sharing your eminence knowledge.
Amazing content! Thank you for taking us up in your beechcraft to demonstrate how important this issue is and help us future and current pilots to keep this training in our permanent memory's.
I've looked at a lot of your videos over the last few weeks. My interest has been to learn as much as I can before starting flight training later this year. My biggest take away, from a lot of your presentations has been that stick and rudder and intelligent flying is the most important skills to learn. With all this in mind, I'm looking at gliding schools first, to learn the muscle memory skills before I try to do the work on the other skills. I appreciate that powered aircraft have extra complexities, but if I have the basics of flight hard wired in, I'll progress on from that grounding.
Good plan Speed! Go for it and keep us posted!
Great job!
As a glider pilot, I learned the “fence hopping” maneuver. When you’re coming up short, dive for the ground so you’re in ground effect, and that’ll help you hop over the fence at the end of the runway.
Not a good thing for a powered airplane... they glide like bricks compared to a glider.
Glider pilots are brave. They can drop nose at low altitude. No power dependent pilot there..
I think the AQP guideline of defined minimum maneuvering speed (DMMS) is clearly the standard to shoot for here. Don’t go below it until you’re about to smack the ground.
@@FlyWirescottperdue What if you do like Bob Hoover and dive and climb, dive and climb with no engine?
@@djbred18 I was wondering about that too. But then, I'm not inclined to become a test pilot on my last flight of my life, either.
Great video and very helpful Scott. Thanks so much for your efforts. Love your work
Thanks for watching!
Hey Scott I really enjoy your videos. I’m a low time pilot “220hrs”. I own a M35 and love it. I was able to buy it and get my license in my plane. I think as pilots we don’t practice slow flight enough. As pilots time grows it appears to me that the simple basics of training are ignored by most GA pilots. That translates into the stall spin at 300 AGL. Also I fly down wind and base at 100 MPH. I start to slow below that at 1/2 mile final. This video shows me that I need to practice more at slower speeds to stay proficient at slow flight power off. I m constantly telling myself to fly the plane all the way into the crash. I think that saves lives as much as anything. Thanks
Very good demonstration of how the classic stall-spin accident develops. And how fast it comes.
As this video shows, it is impossible to recover the Bonanza in less than 10-1200 ft.
Brilliant Live-Fly video ....... Follow the Physics and Survive ✨
Good video Scott. On another note, I loved your Little A’Le’Inn T-Shirt at the beginning of the video (pt. 2)! I’ve had several “extraterrestrial “ burgers there when we were doing road construction on the Extraterrestrial Highway years ago, brought back some good memories!! Anyway, I always enjoy your videos and learn a lot from them so thank you very much for doing them.
Thanks Michael I appreciate that!
Stalls in the V Tail are fun. Nothing like anything I've stalled before. Hard break!
This shows what I tell my students about moving from a training aircraft to bigger, faster, sexier, cooler. Everything in aviation is a give and take.
I know when I crashed a motorcycle, I was consciously letting go of various parts of my body as I slid in an effort to save the more essential parts of it. You have to just accept that you're not getting out of it without getting hurt so you use the peripheral things, be they parts of the vehicle or parts of your body, to help absorb some of the energy. You might still not make it out alive but that gives you your best chance once you know that you're crashing no matter what you do.
This channel is a gem. Thanks for the time and dedication you put into this
Thanks for all you DO!
I want you to know that as a new PPL my wife and I take everything you release serious. thank you for this work!
Appreciate your coverage.
My early learning was in a Piper Colt - (Flying Rock) I learned immediately to focus on any alternative that may minimize a crash landing.
My first, instructor initiated, dead stick landing would have come up far short of the Runway, but knowing the takeoff / landing capabilities of the Colt, I set a landing diagonal across he runway into an un-tilled stretch of field.
My instructor aborted the landing and told me I was either confident or crazy(to be decided later) and the test was intended to fail.
2 weekends later, while prepping my plane for my he barely missed the top of the hanger line as he landed the Twin to my Colt Diagonal to the runway. The spinner and Cowling had exploded off on the downwind approach.
Great work on this video. Thank you for showing the results of your testing and this will perhaps save some lives.
Thanks Scott. It reinforces a point that I am trying to teach my fellow air traffic controllers about what "stretching the glide" means and why it MIGHT -- MIGHT -- be a good idea for controllers to reminds pilots with engine failures to "do not try to stretch the glide." In some situations, I think it would be helpful for controllers to say this. Thoughts from you or anyone who reads this comment would be appreciated.
Dean, fundamentally there is no such thing as stretching the glide. Flaps will reduce the total energy in the landing.
Good Stuff Scott! Valuable information that just might save your life.
Very interesting and thanks for that very detailed and informative analysis. You are saving lives here just wish most GA pilots would get interest in videos like this. And most importantly train for situations like that at altitude to get a feel of how the aircraft behaves.
Reminds me (appropriately) of Star Trek's Scotty. "Captain, ye canna change the laws of physics."
Brilliant vid! In the UK most PFLs go around at 500ft, but then you don't experience the dangers of ground rush. My instructor made me do a number of forced landings on the airfield. This was invaluable to experience the natural reaction (wrong reaction) to pull up too much degrading airspeed at very low altitude.
An instructor once told me that pilots should be trained on sailplanes 1st, it gives a nice base of...well, gliders.
Everything glides, even an F-104, or the Gimli Glider!
But some have the glide slope of a rock !
I liked your short discussion of the ground rush illusion.
Love your channel. Hope you never need "Softie"! This is the first GA TH-cam I've found where the pilot wears a chute.
Made my intended landing point by inches in a glider once, had an alternate field picked out but went with primary anyway. Never want to cut it that close again.
Thank you. Greetings from Ireland
First time I've seen this. Looked like you were upside down a few times. I have a much better appreciation of 'Ground Rush' now. That's exactly what it is. I was feeling panicked sitting on my non-moving couch!
GREAT presentation!!! And airmenship/teaching.
Like the idea of the Fish Finder, a true ADSB looking for the fish!
Great stuff. Wish your channel had been around when I was still flying.
Hi Scott, I watch all three of you guys: Juan and Dan. All your opinions count in my world. Keep up the great job, The World Is Watching!
One more time a great video. Thank you Scott!
Yes! Do a vid on “ground rush.”
And those Panic Pulls that stalls so many..
i guess I'm kinda off topic but does anyone know of a good website to stream new series online ?
@Omari Finn lately I have been using FlixZone. Just google for it =)
@Fletcher Brodie definitely, I have been using Flixzone for months myself =)
@Fletcher Brodie thanks, I signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I appreciate it !
Fantastic video! Based on some of the comments, I think some pilots haven't experienced a stall initiated from that slow of an airspeed. That they've just done the standard power off stall, from normal approach speed. I think it leads some into thinking they can fly closer to that edge than they think, that they'll have plenty of warning, and it's just not so. The other think I think is that some people have a completely unrealistic idea of what their glide distance is. I learned that from flying a Cherokee, which was described to me by an instructor as having the glide distance of a sewing machine. It's a fairly accurate comparison. As you say, physics always wins. Adjust your flying to suit the math.
Great stuff thanks
Great demo Mr. Perdue!
Fly the airplane to the scene of the accident!Hearing the stall warning at altitude in your demo makes me nervous,what are ga pilots missing?????
Fascinating and a little terrifying lol. Im a new subscriber here but long time enthusiast. I only "fly" fpv RC airplanes but I have stalled them. More than once in-fact 😎
Thanks for subbing and for watching!
Okay, you answered the second question in the video.
Always learn something from videos, thanks
again. another great video
Good explanation and demo. Thanks Scott. Hope your shoulder came out OK.
Thanks Mark. It's getting better!
Everybody knows. The problem: not everybody is able to brutally adjust expectations of damage and injury when the situation demands it. But thank you for the reinforcement.
Most german pilots in WW2 started on gliders. They were not afraid of power off landings, stalled less, glided after engine fails or shot down more. Less pilot errors overall. Practice short approaches to a point on runway..
Great 👍 video friend.
In Lift = Cl X (density X Velocity^2)/2 X wing area, the only thing you can plan ahead for with certainty is wing area.
Good presentation
Nice demo I'd like you to also talk and demonstrate the secondary stall which is easy to pull to early or to hard and is move violent.
Super helpful!
Some times I'm amazed. A single engine aircraft stating they have and engine out and the tower gives a runways to chase. Then the pilot not declaring an emergency and not heading straight for the airport grounds. Grass is better than buildings. Aim at center of airport or grounds there with least obstructions.
Very good illustration. Thank you. Wanting to stretch that glide (human instinct) vs physics based training (fact). Good reminder why it's important to fly the #s.
Great clip thanks, your pictures are wonkey :-)
Glad you like them!
@@FlyWirescottperdue ;-)
Student pilot here and in my C-182 I have the most docile stalls. It is also possible the do a falling leaf descent with no power without to much trouble. In a populated area with no real areas to land the Falling leaf approach is the least energy way to hit the ground? Stalling into a inverted decent is not something I know how to handle. Upset training in a plane designed for it is in the cards for me.
Isn't your vertical speed pretty high during a falling leaf because you're stalled? Would not be a good way to hit the ground. You have to be carrying enough reserve lift to flare before touchdown to reduce your vertical speed as close as possible to zero. A power-off landing in a single engine plane should be pretty much like a normal landing during the final few seconds.
I’d love to hear your take on the crazy idea of diving and pulling up to extend engine out “glide” that some have claimed would extend distance when dead sticking ...
No, I never believed it would work, but some do...
It works in gliders, but not so well in powered airplanes. Powered airplanes have too much drag which equates to wasted energy. I would not suggest doing it.
G'day,
Yay Team !
"Stretching the Glide..., to make it back to the Field..."
is a bit like the story of the bloke who was assigned to fly Fairey Battles, that said his plan in the event of opposition from Enemy Fighters was that he was going to, "take immediate evasive action...; by unstrapping from the seat & running around in Circles, inside the Cockpit !"
The bloke who told it to me had actually flown Fairey
Battles, while training, in Oz, in1941 - and he was laughingly aknowledging the underpowered gross unmanouvreability of the Battle, in real life.
Years later I attempted to share the joke with a different bloke who had also flown Battles - but opetationally, in May 1940..., when his Flight was the one which tried to fly low up the Albert Canal to bomb the Bridges ; and he never got near the Bridges - Flak caused him to pancake onto the Tow-Path beside the water ; which he said was lucky, because the Me-109s got all of both the Flights trying to bomb from Medium & High level..., but he didn't see the funny side of the "Evasive Action in a Fairey Battle..., joke", at all.
Because, like "stretching the Glide"..., it simply is NOT Possible to do that.
"But that wouldn't work at all...!"
he said,
"The Pilot's Cockpit in a Battle is no bigger than that of a Spitfire - there's no room in it to get up and move around, none whatsoever !"
Which was why the bloke who only flew them while training thought it was funny - because his point was that attempting to evade Fighters by manouvreing a Battle was at least as impossible as running around inside the "Glasshouse" to avoid incoming Gunfire...
Some things simply cannot be done, with Aeroplanes ; and Stretching the Glide is but one of them...
It was 40 years ago, but I reckon that I'm pretty lucky to have actually met TWO people who flew Fairey Battles - let alone a survivor of having flown a Battle against the Luftwaffe's Flak Batteries...(!).
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Thanks Warbles! Its always a pleasure to hear your stories!
@@FlyWirescottperdue
No worries mate...; it's a pleasure to tell them to somebody with the headspace & mindset required to actually underconstumble and appreciate them...(!)
If you feel like being horrified while having a laugh, backtrack me to see the series I started a week ago, beginning with,
"Emergency Rescue Recharging Brand-New Deep-Cycle Storage Batteries...!"
According to my "Spies" (ie, Subscribers in the Comment Threads) there's a similar "Policy" problem in the US as there is here ; that being Lead/Acid Batteries being factory-filled with Electrolyte, then taking 1 or even up to 2 Months to reach the Retail point of sale..., then sitting with no "Maintenance Charge" for up to 3 more months (!) before being routinely shipped-back for recycling....
So..., guess who just bought 6 new $250 Batteries and discovered & 2 were 40% & 42% self-discharged & sulphated when they arrived, indicating 57 & 61 days' deterioration respectively (losing 0.9% of the stored Charge, per day)..., & the other 4 unitswere 22.5% self-discharged, meaning that they took 28 dayze to arrive...., Grrrrr-Snarrrl...!
But, of course, they all had their "Protective" red plastic "No-Tampering Covers " intact and on their Positive terminals, placed insitu to "prove" that the Batteries are definitely "New"....; while in fact those Covers PROVE that the Batteries have been systematically pre-damaged by organised deliberate Neglect, after manufacture and right up to and until the point of sale....(!!!!).
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Best glide is best glide - anything above or below you sink faster, so right: You can't stretch it - yes physics. Now that's the smartypants in me talking. In a real engine out you will have to fight all the fear and instincts. Brainstem takes control unfortunately. Kudos to your trial spins to get data - Thank you for a great video.
Exactly right Patrick!
Always good to have real data rather than conjecture. It would be interesting to look at how much difference it makes to pull back the prop in a CS airplane when the engine quits. I suspect that would be one legitimate way to “stretch” the glide.
It is actually. I've got other videos on that very topic.
Flap gap seals make a big difference in increasing gliding distance along with an increased climb rate and faster cruise. Win, win, win…at least they do in our 185.
Best glide assumes still air. You can "stretch your glide" by speeding up in a head wind and or sinking air - or slowing down in lifting air or with a tailwind. Of course, you still need to mind your stall speed.
We're talking powered airplane pilots here.... in a Jam like this I'm sorry, but no such thing as stretching glide.
Good point, but in an emergency only a few thousand feet up there is little time to figure out the winds and make an appropriate adjustment.
That was scary man
Use extra airspeed ( minimum maneuvering speed) until very close to the ground so you can maneuver around obstacles at the last second. Remember stall speed increases
During yanking and banking. Don’t try to make an airport. Use altitude to convert to airspeed and use airspeed to maneuver to a SURVIVABLE landing. (I’ve survived three off field landings)
What is "minimum maneuvering speed" and why is it better to use than best glide speed?
Well, technically the stall is induced by excessive angle of attack (approx 15degrees) rather than airspeed, but of course without an engine, the speed will keep dropping as the nose is raised in level flight, however the best glide angle is not at the point of stall! If the wing stalls on one wingtip first, well you’ll get a rapid roll toward the side of the stalled wing and possibly precipitate a spin as discussed here. Finding your best engine off glide angle would be a good thing huh!
Nice thorough examination. How about stretching the glide
right after engine out by pulling up until the engine stops
windmilling thereby stretching the glide a whole bunch.
Good question.... but one fraught with uncertainty and risk, I'd say that maneuver would require actually trying it out at altitude to see what parameters work. The only problem with that is I'm against giving yourself an actual emergency in a real airplane to practice for a contingency. Add to that normal human reaction and I'd say that anything exotic has a larger potential to make things worse and not better.
All power pilots should try flying gliders either before power flying or after qualifying.
You learn to get landings right 1st time every time.........no going round !!
It would be good, but in reality sorta impractical.
Since WW1 training posters, the message has always been, "DON'T STRETCH THE GLIDE!". Seems obvious because you can't defy the laws of physics. Play the hand you're dealt. Accept that this won't be a the happiest of endings (but that's what you pay insurance for) and just fly to the scene of the crash as best you can. You have some lateral choice on where to crash but never try to crash farther away than the laws of physics let you, and you must know what that limit is. Why is this so hard? Why have 100+ years of training posters not utterly eradicated this type of accident?
Good point!
Great stuff. Funny shirt. Lol. 👍🏻
Another great video lesson Gunny. Thank you....BTW, I like your setting on the G3X up for the cross bars for flight director cues. Would that work well as the vertical and lateral cues when shooting an ILS (or VNAV) approach?
Dennis, It works great. That is the same display on the 737-800 and 777.
Gunny - I was surprized by the almost inverted attitude the stall put you in. Is that increased roll more characteristic in a low wing than a high wing type Cessna?
The stall was a full blown departure.... even Cessnas will exhibit the same sort of behavior.
What do you mean by “departure”?
@@DiscerningTruth577 basically a spin (one wing stalls first - aircraft rolls until recovery and does a nosedive)
@@DiscerningTruth577 The aircraft "departs controlled flight".
@@ZeeroGamingTV Further, if folks haven't seen it, I recommend Professor Purdue's video where he uses _Simpson's Individual Emperor Stringettes_ to demonstrate that aeronautics is a thing.
There is one place where you can extend the glide . In the ground efect . If you are coming short and the space in front of the landing spot is flat , you can pitch down increase the speed and keep the plane in the ground efect . This will extend the final slide by 50%
If the spot is flat... why not land on it?
Very well explained and demonstrated Gunny - I've always trained to keep flying airspeed on my aircraft and accept a controlled landing outside of an airfield if someday forced due to engine out. Better to walk away.
Absolutely!
I wish you would've done one more run showing proper glide and computed the g forces and distance traveled.
I have other videos on how to do an engine out properly.
U are the man
Scott......Did you do any analysis on the ground distance covered by trying to "stretch the glide" vs flying the same scenario at best glide speed and minimum sink speed? That could be an interesting story as well. Great video by the way. Always very informative!
That would require a comparative set of test runs, totally different objective to the tests I did. The short answer is not much, variable and pretty hard to put anything in your pocket to use if it actually happens to you. The odds of a maneuver like that of having a positive impact is way offset by the message that maybe you can do it... It's better to land under control than the impact the ground out of control.
If that is Granbury TX you referenced you may have met my dad who ran the Cleburne airport.
I did indeed know Sam Ball.
so easy to say... but trim for best glide and the plane will fly at that speed... and better to fly it into the side of a building than pull back and stall...
It's good to be reminded about "ground rush". Ie - fly the aircraft to the crash. There's no other option...
If you could fly it to the crash then it’s flyable . Why bother crashing ?
@@Hugh1966 When the engine quits the aircraft does not immediately fall out of the sky. Set up for best glide and pick a place to land. And to Scott's point, don't stop flying the aircraft. Flying the aircraft means controlling the aircraft in a manner that is conducive to flight. Landing is the act of flying (controlling) the aircraft all the way to the ground. Scott made some good points. Maybe you could watch the video again?
holly molly, i am glad i wasnt in that plane
What about the classic ‘over the fence’ stall. Happens on approach to the airfield fence - pull back and stall to ‘get over’ the fence vs pushing the nose down for a last minute small pull over the fence?
Don't see the difference... just closer to the ground.
Ballistic Chute Time Indeed !
OCD kicking in. would you mind if I came by and straightened all the photos behind you? :)
haha!
Excellent……you can’t fight gravity
"Fly the plane a far into the crash as possible"; "I'd rather glide into the side of a barn than stall over an open field"; "don't extend the glide". We hear all of these while training. The question is, when you are in an emergency, and the ground gets big in the window, will you be able to resist pulling up on the nose?
With training and discussion... I hope so.
Wrong side of the power curve for that AOA...
Seems to me the only time you "stretch the glide" is in ground effect. Up 'til then, any departure from best glide speed is shortening the glide.
Exactly!
Shouldn't every student pilot be given this situation of engine loss too short of the runway with ground rush in a simulator ? Must land short with enough speed to flare instead of stretch it to departure. Hard to learn without experience.