I hope you all find this video helpful! I'm not overly happy with how it turned out, but I hope my main points come across. I will be revisiting structure again to do novel breakdowns in the future. It looks like I almost definitely have long COVID. I have not felt well for about ten weeks. I have tried to film on good days, but I really didn't want you guys to have to wait any longer for this video.
I have a chest x-ray, EKG, and echocardiogram scheduled for two weeks from now. For the most part I feel okay, but I am extremely fatigued, can't keep my thoughts organized (I think it really shows in this video!), and have shortness of breath. I will keep working on videos when I have good days, but they may be a little more disorganized than usual. Thank you all so much for watching and for your support! -Ellen
Hope you get well soon. Thank you for making so many good videos filled with information and free of filler. I keep returning to your videos in different phases of my own writing process. You are a gem.
OMG, Ellen! I haven't watched the video yet, but I hope your recovery goes well. Don't worry about the content of the video. It can always be reedited or reshot. Feel better soon.
Partway through this video I had to run to the outline I've been working on because you triggered an epiphany. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the level of specificity you cover. It's one thing to have a general idea of story structure, and another to hear someone speak about beats with such detail. Thanks so much for your wonderful videos!
When you said that the protagonist still needs to be proactive in the the 2nd quarter, it made me think of this advice (possibly by Brandon Sanderson?); 'the protagonist will try to use the least amount of effort to achieve the desired result [using the strategies they already know from the past, such as trying to ignore the problem] just like the way people in real life try to solve problems the easiest, quickest or laziest way first'.
Great video. I see the ghost book moved from the middle of your shelf in last year now it’s in the far left slot. Great middle plot activity 😜 Keep an eye on paranormal activity unless you pulled it out to research a ghost in your home 😂
I'm so sorry your health hasn't been well! I wish you much rest and as speedy a recovery as can be. That said, your points definitely came across clearly, and the video was as well-organized and informative as usual. I've always found the second quarter to be particularly murky, but your explanation of the 'fish out of water,' the period in which the protagonist accepts their new world but tries to still cling onto their old self to tackle that world, was extremely clarifying. Thank you for distinguishing between the disruption, crossing the threshold, and upside-down world! Really excited to apply this new understanding to the project I'm just starting to outline.
I’m really appreciating this in depth look at the portions of story between the plot points. Your description of the second quarter as a time when the character is trying to move through the upside down world using the same mindset or beliefs as before resonated. My only request is for you to include a romance in your list of examples. Thanks for making these videos!
Truly, your Writing Advice Kung-Fu is strong! I appreciate your willingness and ability to not only give advice, but explain the logic behind it and provide relatable examples of your points. It's immensely helpful!
I'm an intuitive type of a writer, so I don't care much for story structure theory, as it will only limit me. But I still watch all your videos in the new series twice because you are THAT good! Keep up the amazing work and I hope you feel better soon!
I'm writing the second quarter of my first novel and feeling the 'loss of intensity' you describe.' My other attempts at this story, all four, felt the same; I misconstrued this for something else, maybe that the story seemed to become boring, like you said. Having this defined by you has given me the hope to tread on strongly. Thanks.
Thank you! I just signed with a Swedish publishing house! You inspired me to dig deeper into the craft of writing. It’s been a lot of darling killing, cat saving, structuring, showing not telling and above all getting under the characters’ skin. All this, and a lot of time, and a lot of rewriting (and even more rewriting) got me published on my first try! Here is my road to success for aspiring writers: Write a novel, watch all of Ellen’s videos, twice, and realize that your novel is crap. Start rewriting, and while doing that, read also these books: The writers journey, Save the cat writes a novel, and the one that really got me on track: Story genius by Lisa Cron. Read your novel aloud, have your friends comment it, do some more editing and cut hard from both ends (in late, out early). Work hard and it will probably be done in just a few years. :-) Good luck! Thanks again Ellen, and get well soon!
I swear at this point I watch your videos to get ideas I'll be stuck, and then I watch your videos and ideas starts to pop out and I'm taking notes obsessively. Thank you so much, for real.
You look like a teenager ... but u are so wise ! Its easy to say that i am a pantster or plotter but very difficult to give advice to the entire gradient of writers. Knowing exactly how each one feels and what makes each type tick.
My own story really confused me when it came to the upside-down world for a while because the story is about a girl who goes as a scout in another world but ends up finding out she likes it there and staying. But the upside-down world moment isn't her going into that other world - in fact she does that in the first chapter - it's her accepting that she'll have to work with her envirnoment to go home (she's stuck there, whoops) and starting to play into it. She starts studying as a student, and puts to the side the fact that originally she's a scout and stuff (for plot reasons). So she is in a different world because of what role she plays in it/what her identity is, as opposed to just her being in another world It was confusing for a while, but the upside-down world way to see it really helps with plotting for me, and this has shown me early on one of the pitfalls I can have with that, so thank you story XD Edit: she still sees herself as a scout from her world throughout this part, but she don't play that part in the world for a while, if that makes sense
You're a wonderful teacher, I'm guessing most of your following 'students' are happy to wait and like me, appreciate the depth and thoughtfulness of your content. Also, your set and production gas become noticeably professional. Thank you.
Very interesting video! As a methodological pantser, this series very useful to retro-engineer what works in my manuscript and what doesn't, as I generally find structure tips enlightening but struggle to use them as I write. One thing that gives me pause is the point about the character not showing growth in the second quarter. In my story, the protagonist adapts quite well to his new situation. He does actually grow quite a lot in this quarter, and his change has positive results that are immediately apparent. Still, I believe this works for my story, as it ultimately revolves around a negative character arc and has a bittersweet ending, and the character spends the third arc in a very dark place. If he was stagnant in the second quarter, AND "lost" in the last, that would leave only the third quarter to both show positive and negative change in the protagonist, and I feel the story would also be too much of a downer, with ultimately very little positive moments in it. Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I feel your advise, although excellent for positive character arcs (that are, after all, the majority of stories), might be a little bit rigid when it comes to negative arcs. Or am I completely wrong here? Anyway, thanks again for your excellent work! This was on the whole very informative. Until next time, please take care of yourself and your health.
Sooooo helpful! Thank you! I always thought I was pretty good with the Hero’s Journey, but your note about the midpoint being the part where the HERO figures out the plot just blew my mind. Been struggling to write the first draft of my novel because of a slow 2nd Quarter, and this just gave me hope. Thanks Ellen!
I've not finished the video yet, but I really wanna say that this is making me feel so much better about my book. The second quarter for me (which I call Act 2 out of 4) is both a literal and figurative upside down world. The world itself is entirely fictional. The first quarter sets up the MC in his homeland with his family, but then at the end he runs away from home (he's 12 by the way). He ends up on an entirely new continent, so the second quarter is new characters, new societal rules, new norms, new everything. It's a huge culture shock for him, so naturally (given the context of this fantasy world and the magic system and all that) I had to go through a bunch of boring stuff to set up this new environment. One of my betas told me that it was pretty much far too boring and that she couldn't see any direction in the story. I've been thinking of how I might remedy that, so I hope the rest of this video helps with ideas. And now back to the video. Uh oh. Paused again after hearing the part about introducing characters. 2 important characters are introduced in Q2, one of which gets killed off at the end of Q2. Q3 then introduces 3 new important characters. Also, Q3 happens to be set in yet another brand new continent of this world, so it makes sense, to me at least, to have some new characters introduced. The beta who pretty much shat on the down time of Q2 happened to also hate all 3 of the new important characters of Q3, so I really don't know what to do about that. She didn't hate that they were introduced so late, just how they were introduced. Back to the video again. Had to pause again (after you talk about how the antagonistic force needs to at least be felt or hinted at in Q2) because I got a [hopefully] great idea to beef up my Q2 with a clear drive/goal and also make it less boring and more suspenseful. I really hope this idea works. It's now in my notes. Brief context, though, the main antagonist is hinted at in the first half then officially introduced at the mid-point, then Q2 introduces a separate antagonist (a police officer) who arrests the MC and takes him to the big evil queen's domain (AKA the third continent I mentioned that Q3 is set in). But I now have an idea of how to make the first chunk of Q2 less fun-and-games/boring and more foreboding. I really hope I can make it work. Once again back to the video. I really love your videos. They've been helping me a lot with my writing. You're always so insightful, and you always explain things so well.
Thank you so much for making this video! I really needed this exact advice--today. I am sorry to hear you are dealing with long COVID and hope you get to feeling better soon. The fact that you have not been well makes your effort that much more appreciated. Please take care of yourself.
I am so sorry, Ellen! Rest, and do whatever you need to take care of yourself! Thank you for helping us aspiring writers ❤ 💙 Please keep us posted on your health!
Sorry to hear that you haven't been well! This video has been my favorite so far in this series because I've always struggled with the second quarter and identifying what its emotional core is. Despite what you feel about it, I've found this video to be clear, focused, and organized, and it really helped me with my current project. Please take as much time as you need to recuperate. We'll be here waiting patiently when you're ready to take on these videos again. Thanks for this. 💗
I'm going to have to watch this multiple times. It's hard for me to process everything at such a break-neck speed....information overloooooaaaadddd hehe Seriously, though, I have been learning so much watching your videos that I haven't found anywhere else. This is the first I've heard of the second quarter (or even the concept of a story having 4 quarters, for that matter), or how to develop a plot around it. I write as a hobby, so I am not looking to get published. However, I still struggle with plotting a good story. I know there was something I was missing. I am sure there is much more I have been missing, but this is one more piece of the puzzle that makes things click and de-mystifies the writing process for me. Thank you for your hard work in presenting the writing process from your unique perspective and breaking it down further than the usual vague writing advice that is so common.
OH NO! I hope you beat that nasty old virus nice and quickly! ^_^ Thank you for keeping your strength up enough to post this for all of us. Every video gives me new insight into things I could be doing better. I am in the middle of re-working things, and am a bit past the mid-point so this will be great to have in mind when I get there (again!). Get well soon!
You are soo appreciated by so many people. From a personal level, I have learnt so much from you and nearly 20k words in now. I feel I’m in on the right track .. thanks to you!
I learn so much from your videos. Thank you for all the hard work! Could we get a quick idea of how these different aspects of structure would play out in a multi-POV story? How important is it that each character's disruption/entrance to upside down world/midpoint happen at the same point in the story? I assume, each character should have each of these aspects of structure. Does it matter whether two characters share the exact same event or have their own? Just a quick overview of things like that, please. Thank you again, and get well soon.
If this is you on a bad day, you're doing pretty amazing!... I thought the video was superb. I'm really enjoying your new, longer videos. It's incredibly generous for you to share such rich and insightful knowledge in this way. Really hope you begin to feel better soon. Like others have said, it's always essential to prioritise your health and wellbeing over work whenever possible, though I also recognise that sometimes the focus and achievement of work can actually help us feel better, it's ever a balance. Take care.
Thank you! Yes, it's hard to balance. Doing nothing is boring and unfulfilling, but it's also very easy to do too much! I'm just glad I work for myself so I can at least try to find that balance.
Ellen, as always, thank you for all you do, for your time and effort, and for your wonderful insights into story and writing craft. We appreciate you so much. I hope your health struggles lessen. ❤
I have to admit before watching this structure series, I was not sure if it would be the kind of tipps or help I need (for future stories and for my current story, im working since two years). Turns out this is a help really. greetings from a type of methodological panster
I definitely think everything addressed here is helpful! The only point I think became unclear was toward the end regarding whether character progress can or can't happen; I think it absolutely can by showing the character(s) further descending into their lowest point or beginning to do so. I think when the information needs to be obtained, the conflicts should start to connect while outlining the bigger picture at stake(ie the external conflict catching up with the internal conflict) and this leads into another choice for the characters to make-do they or do they not tread into the second setup of the unknown and what are the risks involved to do so? This choice ultimately sets up the climax for success or failure and the third quarter as a whole. For example, in my own work, the dual protagonists come out of a sticky situation one after the other, and a realization of truth and denial goes about once again over where loyalties lie with one another; are the protagonists really going to sort this out or are they going to drive themselves further apart(one main idea I have in mind is one shaping the other into them (to be like them) in a sense.
wishing you lots of rest/recovery and quick test results 💗 ty esp for the point about the path of least resistance and the way you've laid out how to look at this as a simple structure puzzle, everything was very clear and helpful as always!
This was incredibly helpful!! Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. The more that I write as the years go by many of these stages that you’re talking about feel like they happen naturally
Hi Ellen. If you have heart palpitations when laying down, you might benefit from getting a foam wedge for sleeping. We got one that's 7" for the head and neck side and it goes down to nothing at the feet. It's one big right angle triangle. During the night, we slide down a little bit, but it helps a lot, they can even help with heartburn. When I lay on flat surfaces, my heart pounds. We bring ours even when we go to hotels. We got it from Amazon.
Would love to see breakdowns of stories like The Usual Suspects, Fargo (+ tv shows) - book: Black-Tongue Thief . Stories less neat and linear (or are they?)
Oooh yea this is good stuff!! Thankyou Ellen Brock, these examples you countinue to offer are to me more valued as a sense of inspiration,Yet it also strengthens your view of the lense of the protagonist. This is amazing content, thankyou for all of the hard work yoi put into this
I will chime in with the chorus and thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge-I gained a lot from your series and watched each 2x to take notes! I hope your recovery is swift. ❤️ If you are still taking suggestions for books to deconstruct, I’d love to hear a comparison of a popular mainstream novel vs something considered literary yet also has adaptations such as a work by Toni Morrison, Kazuo Ishiguro, or Cormac McCarthy. I’m looking forward to the next video! 😊
I don't have a second quarter. I have a story where two characters are writing to each other from different time periods. They aren't necessarily changing each other. Maybe they should?
About the common mistakes where the antagonist isn't too present. I think the antagonist in Harry Potter 2 is great. It's Voldemort even though you don't really know. But there is the mysterious Heir of Slytherin who keeps petrifying people.
Your videos are great! I'm so glad I subscribed to you years ago, I was hoping you'd return. Thanks for these story structure explanations, they helped me a lot!
The majority of Author tube or the authorities of writing and editing are from the West or Countries that treasures reading and the writing industry. Here in the region of Cordillera region of the Philippines, it took me about 8 years to write and publish my book. The main reason is the Arts in general like writing, music, painting, sculpture, acting and the like are considered as "hobbies" and not "real careers". People are focused on what they consider as "real careers" that are "paying jobs" like farming, carpentry, professions, businesses and the like. This is mainly due to the low standard of living or poverty that are prevalent here. It was difficult for me to find editors, beta readers, critic partners, support systems (family and friends who believed on my career choice), time to write (have to hustle in the real world to fulfill basic needs and too exhausted in my free time) and others. I end up skipping some steps and submitted my manuscript this year in a publishing company willing to help me publish as a novice writer. I don't know if this is necessary but it is my reality as a writer.
Hey Ellen! So I've just started the first manuscript of my story and as I'm a ENTJ you can already assume I'm a very perfectionist plotter and slow writer (I like to do things well and take my time). But I've encountered a major struggle. I'm only half the second chapter in and I can't keep myself from be discouraged or even scared of all the work that's ahead of me. I write super slow and I know exactly what happens in each scene in every chapter of the book, so I'm kinda "unmotivated/scared/doubting myself"... Is a project I love with all my heart, do you have by chance any tips on assuming the work that is yet to be done or to learn to be "patient".
My advice: just write. Allow yourself to write what you may think is garbage. Relax and try to enjoy the process. Have fun with it. And lucky you, it's so much easier to write when you have a full outline. Don't worry about the first draft not being great. It would be extremely rare if someone wrote a fantastic first draft. The less you worry about that first pass, the faster it will get done. Get the story on the page and then you can start tweaking it, revising it, and even having others read it to give you feedback. And you just may end up surprised that it's not as bad as you thought.
I have some suggestions: Firstly, even someone like Akira Kurosawa said that writing was like mountain climbing; you can't focus on the 'top'. You just have to take each step at a time or you will get frustrated. If you haven't heard/read anything by Stephen Pressfield (The War of Art) you may find it helpful. Basically he says that your mind uses fear to stop you (obviously) and that 'resistance' is all about expectation and judgment (that you put on yourself). Pressfield also makes the point that the 'flow state' comes AFTER you have started, so instead of waiting for inspiration/motivation, just START and struggle/fumble until the flow state arrives. He says this is basically the difference between 'amateur' and 'pro' mindset. The amateur waits, the pro just starts, knowing through experience that things will happen once you concentrate. Ken Atchity says something similar, about how you can't control what other people think about your art, or whether it is 'good'. All you can do is do the work as best you can. Learn from it, and start another project. It's up to the universe to judge it, or not. I think, for me, acknowledging that there is this 'fear' we place on ourselves is about mindfulness. We perhaps can't control this feeling, but we can recognise it happening, and in recognising it, and why we feel it (because the project is important to us) we do gain a kind of power over it. We should remember that even the artists we admire have also been through this feeling. He even goes as far as to say you owe it to yourself and the universe to do it. That might sound like a little too much pressure, I don't know. I think the key is to separate making/finishing something from the expectation or fear you and others might have or how others might judge you when reading it. And remember that when you finish, it won't magically fix everything in life, and there will still also be that anti-climax that comes with finishing a long held goal, so it's good to have another idea already started. Some practical tips: (from Brandon Sanderson) Try writing a list of all the reasons you want to write, and write this story. A list just for yourself. It can be as shallow, pretentious and profound as you want. It is purely for you to use as motivation. He also records his word count as a way of staying motivated - as in, he doesn't want to break a cycle. (Joyce Carol Oates) Try to have a writing routine, get exercise, and avoid distractions. For some a long walk can help to clear the mind or get ideas/problem solve. If you don't already 'journal' in the mornings like 'morning pages' that may help. Also consider having multiple projects at once so that this one becomes a little less 'precious'. It means you can switch back and forth. So you may find it easier to work for a while on something that doesn't feel important, because the stakes/pressure is lower (even though the focus is still your main project). Remember that unlike performance art, you can change it as much as you need to before you ever show it to anyone else. Another tip that might work for you, is to write scenes out of order and focus on the scenes you are most excited about. That might motivate you. And in terms of expectation, just tell the truth. As Charlie Kaufman says, All you can share with the world is you, and who you are, and what you have to say. And if you do it honestly, it will resonate with others, just like other writers and artists resonate with you. I hope some of that is of use. Anything I've written that doesn't seem right for you just ignore.
@@Ruylopez778 First of all... Wow, thank you so so much! I really cannot thank you enough for having written so many words and suggested so many different solutions/advices. I will definitely try them out and, again, thank you for spending so much time attending my question!
@@iamluyu No worries! Hope it helps. As well as this channel, I also find Glenn Gers' channel helpful (especially his 'essentials'), 'Writing for Screens'. You can find clips of Ken Atchity on Film Courage, and clips of Pressfield on Tim Ferriss' channel. 'Writing Excuses' is another free writing resource with lots of tips. All the best.
running, hiding, flailing, planning and failing and the fails have to do with interior issues which must change so the protag can face the opposition head on in the last 1/4. mid point, protag figures out where she went wrong and why, and she is why-- she changes here.
sorry, maybe because I haven't watched the video about the First Quarter, but I didn't completely get what the first plot point is, can you explain it in text so I can copy it in my notes on this video?
I really want to watch this video but I’m really postponing it every time it comes by to watch later when I can make some more time for it to take the info in
As a writer I really love your vids, your content truly is unique and you are one of the best youtubers for writers I know. One thing though I discovered: I think you could even be more successful if you think more about the title of your vids and make them coherent. I take the series for intuitive and methodological pantsers/plotters for an example. The 4 vids with the tips have 4 really different titles. Why not have the same title and only change the word "methodological pantser" and so on? The same with this video. At the beginning you tell us that it is the 3rd video in a structure-series. But no one can tell / see this because of the title. No 1,2,3 or overall title for the series. So this is only something that I discovered, maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't :) Sorry for any mistakes, english isn't my mothertongue :) I hope you get better soon!
Thanks for the video. I hope you feel better soon. :) Edit: I hate to be a bother, but if you're referencing the movie, it's Philosopher's Stone, not Sorceror's Stone.
In America, they changed the title of both the book and the movie from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone because publishers were worried kids wouldn't understand it was a magic thing with the British book title. So both are actually correct titles :)
@@rebeccadey I never heard it was changed in the movies too. What a waste. How would they explain how it was never referenced as Sorceror's in the movie?
They just swapped 'philosopher' and 'sorcerer' the whole way through. While I do understand the change, for the record, I always thought philosopher sounded better ;)
Unless they made two versions, maybe, where they filmed each scene with both words (I am not sure tbh), our version here in America used sorcerer's stone all tue way through. Did the British version of the movie use philosopher's stone instead?
I hope you all find this video helpful! I'm not overly happy with how it turned out, but I hope my main points come across. I will be revisiting structure again to do novel breakdowns in the future.
It looks like I almost definitely have long COVID. I have not felt well for about ten weeks. I have tried to film on good days, but I really didn't want you guys to have to wait any longer for this video.
I have a chest x-ray, EKG, and echocardiogram scheduled for two weeks from now. For the most part I feel okay, but I am extremely fatigued, can't keep my thoughts organized (I think it really shows in this video!), and have shortness of breath.
I will keep working on videos when I have good days, but they may be a little more disorganized than usual. Thank you all so much for watching and for your support!
-Ellen
Hope you get well soon. Thank you for making so many good videos filled with information and free of filler. I keep returning to your videos in different phases of my own writing process. You are a gem.
OMG, Ellen! I haven't watched the video yet, but I hope your recovery goes well. Don't worry about the content of the video. It can always be reedited or reshot. Feel better soon.
I’m so sorry to hear that Ellen. I hope you start feeling a lot better soon.
Thank you for this video. I really needed it...I hope you get better
Get well and take your time! We‘re thankful for everything you‘ve given us so far, so please concentrate on your health first! I wish you all the best
Partway through this video I had to run to the outline I've been working on because you triggered an epiphany. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the level of specificity you cover. It's one thing to have a general idea of story structure, and another to hear someone speak about beats with such detail. Thanks so much for your wonderful videos!
Same thing happened to me with the epiphany. These videos are creativity boosters
Make that at least 3 of us!
I concur. Great video.
That's awesome! It'd be really interesting to hear about what the epiphany was for you, if you're happy to share?
Same here!! So helpful :)
Soooo many "aha" moments watching this series. Thank you! 💜💜💜
The bloated beginning has been my problem for YEARS, it makes total sense now why none of my stories were working.
Farewell to the next 41 minutes of my life. Always thrilled when the notification pops up saying there's a new video. Here we go! 😁
When you said that the protagonist still needs to be proactive in the the 2nd quarter, it made me think of this advice (possibly by Brandon Sanderson?); 'the protagonist will try to use the least amount of effort to achieve the desired result [using the strategies they already know from the past, such as trying to ignore the problem] just like the way people in real life try to solve problems the easiest, quickest or laziest way first'.
That's great! Thanks for sharing.
Great video. I see the ghost book moved from the middle of your shelf in last year now it’s in the far left slot. Great middle plot activity 😜 Keep an eye on paranormal activity unless you pulled it out to research a ghost in your home 😂
You are the kind of professor I loved in college. Concise, great references, and great delivery of information!! I love your videos so much.
I'm so sorry your health hasn't been well! I wish you much rest and as speedy a recovery as can be. That said, your points definitely came across clearly, and the video was as well-organized and informative as usual. I've always found the second quarter to be particularly murky, but your explanation of the 'fish out of water,' the period in which the protagonist accepts their new world but tries to still cling onto their old self to tackle that world, was extremely clarifying. Thank you for distinguishing between the disruption, crossing the threshold, and upside-down world! Really excited to apply this new understanding to the project I'm just starting to outline.
Wonderful! I'm so glad the video helped and was clear enough. Thank you for your well wishes.
I’m really appreciating this in depth look at the portions of story between the plot points. Your description of the second quarter as a time when the character is trying to move through the upside down world using the same mindset or beliefs as before resonated. My only request is for you to include a romance in your list of examples. Thanks for making these videos!
Hit 25k words! am finally getting to 1000 a day. It took awhile to get into the flow. Love your videos Ellen
Truly, your Writing Advice Kung-Fu is strong! I appreciate your willingness and ability to not only give advice, but explain the logic behind it and provide relatable examples of your points. It's immensely helpful!
I'm an intuitive type of a writer, so I don't care much for story structure theory, as it will only limit me. But I still watch all your videos in the new series twice because you are THAT good! Keep up the amazing work and I hope you feel better soon!
I'm writing the second quarter of my first novel and feeling the 'loss of intensity' you describe.' My other attempts at this story, all four, felt the same; I misconstrued this for something else, maybe that the story seemed to become boring, like you said. Having this defined by you has given me the hope to tread on strongly. Thanks.
Thank you!
I just signed with a Swedish publishing house! You inspired me to dig deeper into the craft of writing. It’s been a lot of darling killing, cat saving, structuring, showing not telling and above all getting under the characters’ skin.
All this, and a lot of time, and a lot of rewriting (and even more rewriting) got me published on my first try!
Here is my road to success for aspiring writers: Write a novel, watch all of Ellen’s videos, twice, and realize that your novel is crap. Start rewriting, and while doing that, read also these books: The writers journey, Save the cat writes a novel, and the one that really got me on track: Story genius by Lisa Cron. Read your novel aloud, have your friends comment it, do some more editing and cut hard from both ends (in late, out early). Work hard and it will probably be done in just a few years. :-) Good luck!
Thanks again Ellen, and get well soon!
I swear at this point I watch your videos to get ideas
I'll be stuck, and then I watch your videos and ideas starts to pop out and I'm taking notes obsessively. Thank you so much, for real.
You look like a teenager ... but u are so wise ! Its easy to say that i am a pantster or plotter but very difficult to give advice to the entire gradient of writers. Knowing exactly how each one feels and what makes each type tick.
My own story really confused me when it came to the upside-down world for a while because the story is about a girl who goes as a scout in another world but ends up finding out she likes it there and staying. But the upside-down world moment isn't her going into that other world - in fact she does that in the first chapter - it's her accepting that she'll have to work with her envirnoment to go home (she's stuck there, whoops) and starting to play into it. She starts studying as a student, and puts to the side the fact that originally she's a scout and stuff (for plot reasons). So she is in a different world because of what role she plays in it/what her identity is, as opposed to just her being in another world
It was confusing for a while, but the upside-down world way to see it really helps with plotting for me, and this has shown me early on one of the pitfalls I can have with that, so thank you story XD
Edit: she still sees herself as a scout from her world throughout this part, but she don't play that part in the world for a while, if that makes sense
You're a wonderful teacher, I'm guessing most of your following 'students' are happy to wait and like me, appreciate the depth and thoughtfulness of your content. Also, your set and production gas become noticeably professional. Thank you.
Very interesting video! As a methodological pantser, this series very useful to retro-engineer what works in my manuscript and what doesn't, as I generally find structure tips enlightening but struggle to use them as I write.
One thing that gives me pause is the point about the character not showing growth in the second quarter. In my story, the protagonist adapts quite well to his new situation. He does actually grow quite a lot in this quarter, and his change has positive results that are immediately apparent. Still, I believe this works for my story, as it ultimately revolves around a negative character arc and has a bittersweet ending, and the character spends the third arc in a very dark place. If he was stagnant in the second quarter, AND "lost" in the last, that would leave only the third quarter to both show positive and negative change in the protagonist, and I feel the story would also be too much of a downer, with ultimately very little positive moments in it.
Maybe I'm mistaken here, but I feel your advise, although excellent for positive character arcs (that are, after all, the majority of stories), might be a little bit rigid when it comes to negative arcs. Or am I completely wrong here?
Anyway, thanks again for your excellent work! This was on the whole very informative. Until next time, please take care of yourself and your health.
Sooooo helpful! Thank you! I always thought I was pretty good with the Hero’s Journey, but your note about the midpoint being the part where the HERO figures out the plot just blew my mind. Been struggling to write the first draft of my novel because of a slow 2nd Quarter, and this just gave me hope. Thanks Ellen!
I've not finished the video yet, but I really wanna say that this is making me feel so much better about my book.
The second quarter for me (which I call Act 2 out of 4) is both a literal and figurative upside down world. The world itself is entirely fictional. The first quarter sets up the MC in his homeland with his family, but then at the end he runs away from home (he's 12 by the way). He ends up on an entirely new continent, so the second quarter is new characters, new societal rules, new norms, new everything. It's a huge culture shock for him, so naturally (given the context of this fantasy world and the magic system and all that) I had to go through a bunch of boring stuff to set up this new environment. One of my betas told me that it was pretty much far too boring and that she couldn't see any direction in the story. I've been thinking of how I might remedy that, so I hope the rest of this video helps with ideas.
And now back to the video.
Uh oh. Paused again after hearing the part about introducing characters. 2 important characters are introduced in Q2, one of which gets killed off at the end of Q2. Q3 then introduces 3 new important characters. Also, Q3 happens to be set in yet another brand new continent of this world, so it makes sense, to me at least, to have some new characters introduced. The beta who pretty much shat on the down time of Q2 happened to also hate all 3 of the new important characters of Q3, so I really don't know what to do about that. She didn't hate that they were introduced so late, just how they were introduced.
Back to the video again.
Had to pause again (after you talk about how the antagonistic force needs to at least be felt or hinted at in Q2) because I got a [hopefully] great idea to beef up my Q2 with a clear drive/goal and also make it less boring and more suspenseful. I really hope this idea works. It's now in my notes. Brief context, though, the main antagonist is hinted at in the first half then officially introduced at the mid-point, then Q2 introduces a separate antagonist (a police officer) who arrests the MC and takes him to the big evil queen's domain (AKA the third continent I mentioned that Q3 is set in). But I now have an idea of how to make the first chunk of Q2 less fun-and-games/boring and more foreboding. I really hope I can make it work.
Once again back to the video.
I really love your videos. They've been helping me a lot with my writing. You're always so insightful, and you always explain things so well.
Thank you so much for making this video! I really needed this exact advice--today. I am sorry to hear you are dealing with long COVID and hope you get to feeling better soon. The fact that you have not been well makes your effort that much more appreciated. Please take care of yourself.
I am so sorry, Ellen! Rest, and do whatever you need to take care of yourself! Thank you for helping us aspiring writers ❤ 💙 Please keep us posted on your health!
Sorry to hear that you haven't been well! This video has been my favorite so far in this series because I've always struggled with the second quarter and identifying what its emotional core is. Despite what you feel about it, I've found this video to be clear, focused, and organized, and it really helped me with my current project. Please take as much time as you need to recuperate. We'll be here waiting patiently when you're ready to take on these videos again. Thanks for this. 💗
Since the time you are back on yt am writing more regularly. You are doing good to humanity.
I'm going to have to watch this multiple times. It's hard for me to process everything at such a break-neck speed....information overloooooaaaadddd hehe
Seriously, though, I have been learning so much watching your videos that I haven't found anywhere else. This is the first I've heard of the second quarter (or even the concept of a story having 4 quarters, for that matter), or how to develop a plot around it.
I write as a hobby, so I am not looking to get published. However, I still struggle with plotting a good story. I know there was something I was missing. I am sure there is much more I have been missing, but this is one more piece of the puzzle that makes things click and de-mystifies the writing process for me.
Thank you for your hard work in presenting the writing process from your unique perspective and breaking it down further than the usual vague writing advice that is so common.
OH NO! I hope you beat that nasty old virus nice and quickly! ^_^
Thank you for keeping your strength up enough to post this for all of us. Every video gives me new insight into things I could be doing better.
I am in the middle of re-working things, and am a bit past the mid-point so this will be great to have in mind when I get there (again!).
Get well soon!
You are soo appreciated by so many people. From a personal level, I have learnt so much from you and nearly 20k words in now. I feel I’m in on the right track .. thanks to you!
I was waiting for this!! This series is sooo good! You have such a way of explaining things! This is helping me big time!!
I'm so glad!
So glad to have this when I'm four pages into my second quarter! Very thorough and helpful!
I learn so much from your videos. Thank you for all the hard work! Could we get a quick idea of how these different aspects of structure would play out in a multi-POV story? How important is it that each character's disruption/entrance to upside down world/midpoint happen at the same point in the story? I assume, each character should have each of these aspects of structure. Does it matter whether two characters share the exact same event or have their own? Just a quick overview of things like that, please.
Thank you again, and get well soon.
If this is you on a bad day, you're doing pretty amazing!... I thought the video was superb. I'm really enjoying your new, longer videos. It's incredibly generous for you to share such rich and insightful knowledge in this way. Really hope you begin to feel better soon. Like others have said, it's always essential to prioritise your health and wellbeing over work whenever possible, though I also recognise that sometimes the focus and achievement of work can actually help us feel better, it's ever a balance. Take care.
Thank you! Yes, it's hard to balance. Doing nothing is boring and unfulfilling, but it's also very easy to do too much! I'm just glad I work for myself so I can at least try to find that balance.
I'm loving this video series! Thank you so much for everything❤ Your channel is truly a well of knowledge
Just watched this again because I've REALLY been struggling with the structure of book 4 in my series. And once again you've been a huge help! ❤
I'm just starting that part of my draft, so your timing is fantastic.
Ellen, as always, thank you for all you do, for your time and effort, and for your wonderful insights into story and writing craft. We appreciate you so much. I hope your health struggles lessen. ❤
I have to admit before watching this structure series, I was not sure if it would be the kind of tipps or help I need (for future stories and for my current story, im working since two years). Turns out this is a help really.
greetings from a type of methodological panster
I definitely think everything addressed here is helpful! The only point I think became unclear was toward the end regarding whether character progress can or can't happen; I think it absolutely can by showing the character(s) further descending into their lowest point or beginning to do so. I think when the information needs to be obtained, the conflicts should start to connect while outlining the bigger picture at stake(ie the external conflict catching up with the internal conflict) and this leads into another choice for the characters to make-do they or do they not tread into the second setup of the unknown and what are the risks involved to do so? This choice ultimately sets up the climax for success or failure and the third quarter as a whole. For example, in my own work, the dual protagonists come out of a sticky situation one after the other, and a realization of truth and denial goes about once again over where loyalties lie with one another; are the protagonists really going to sort this out or are they going to drive themselves further apart(one main idea I have in mind is one shaping the other into them (to be like them) in a sense.
This was extremely helpful. It answered some doubts I had about my writing in part two and actually confirmed I'm on the right track. Thank you!
wishing you lots of rest/recovery and quick test results 💗 ty esp for the point about the path of least resistance and the way you've laid out how to look at this as a simple structure puzzle, everything was very clear and helpful as always!
This was incredibly helpful!! Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. The more that I write as the years go by many of these stages that you’re talking about feel like they happen naturally
ELLEN! any updates on the long COVID?
Hi Ellen. If you have heart palpitations when laying down, you might benefit from getting a foam wedge for sleeping.
We got one that's 7" for the head and neck side and it goes down to nothing at the feet. It's one big right angle triangle. During the night, we slide down a little bit, but it helps a lot, they can even help with heartburn. When I lay on flat surfaces, my heart pounds. We bring ours even when we go to hotels. We got it from Amazon.
Thank you for the suggestion! I will definitely check that out!
Would love to see breakdowns of stories like The Usual Suspects, Fargo (+ tv shows) - book: Black-Tongue Thief . Stories less neat and linear (or are they?)
Oooh yea this is good stuff!! Thankyou Ellen Brock, these examples you countinue to offer are to me more valued as a sense of inspiration,Yet it also strengthens your view of the lense of the protagonist. This is amazing content, thankyou for all of the hard work yoi put into this
I will chime in with the chorus and thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge-I gained a lot from your series and watched each 2x to take notes! I hope your recovery is swift. ❤️
If you are still taking suggestions for books to deconstruct, I’d love to hear a comparison of a popular mainstream novel vs something considered literary yet also has adaptations such as a work by Toni Morrison, Kazuo Ishiguro, or Cormac McCarthy. I’m looking forward to the next video! 😊
Definitely helpful. 5 out of 5. Thanks Ellen. And all the best.
This series is an amazing resource. Thank you so much for creating it!
Love your videos I re watch them a few times to understand completely ‘
The way I see it, in the 2nd quarter the protagonist is asking questions. In the 3rd quarter, the protagonist is finding answers to those questions.
Brilliant analysis, really appreciate the specificity of examples.
Very clear and helpful. Thank you!
Thank you I was struggling with my novel and I understand what is not working.
As always, great vid. Absolutely conscise and great examples. Thanks.
Super helpful! Thank you as always!!!
Thanks ellen.
This is brilliant, thank you so much! Your channel is most helpful
I don't have a second quarter. I have a story where two characters are writing to each other from different time periods. They aren't necessarily changing each other. Maybe they should?
About the common mistakes where the antagonist isn't too present. I think the antagonist in Harry Potter 2 is great. It's Voldemort even though you don't really know. But there is the mysterious Heir of Slytherin who keeps petrifying people.
Amazingly insightful!
Your videos are great! I'm so glad I subscribed to you years ago, I was hoping you'd return. Thanks for these story structure explanations, they helped me a lot!
You are incredible ugh I owe you so much
The majority of Author tube or the authorities of writing and editing are from the West or Countries that treasures reading and the writing industry. Here in the region of Cordillera region of the Philippines, it took me about 8 years to write and publish my book. The main reason is the Arts in general like writing, music, painting, sculpture, acting and the like are considered as "hobbies" and not "real careers". People are focused on what they consider as "real careers" that are "paying jobs" like farming, carpentry, professions, businesses and the like. This is mainly due to the low standard of living or poverty that are prevalent here. It was difficult for me to find editors, beta readers, critic partners, support systems (family and friends who believed on my career choice), time to write (have to hustle in the real world to fulfill basic needs and too exhausted in my free time) and others. I end up skipping some steps and submitted my manuscript this year in a publishing company willing to help me publish as a novice writer. I don't know if this is necessary but it is my reality as a writer.
Amazing!
Hey Ellen! So I've just started the first manuscript of my story and as I'm a ENTJ you can already assume I'm a very perfectionist plotter and slow writer (I like to do things well and take my time). But I've encountered a major struggle. I'm only half the second chapter in and I can't keep myself from be discouraged or even scared of all the work that's ahead of me. I write super slow and I know exactly what happens in each scene in every chapter of the book, so I'm kinda "unmotivated/scared/doubting myself"... Is a project I love with all my heart, do you have by chance any tips on assuming the work that is yet to be done or to learn to be "patient".
My advice: just write. Allow yourself to write what you may think is garbage. Relax and try to enjoy the process. Have fun with it. And lucky you, it's so much easier to write when you have a full outline. Don't worry about the first draft not being great. It would be extremely rare if someone wrote a fantastic first draft. The less you worry about that first pass, the faster it will get done. Get the story on the page and then you can start tweaking it, revising it, and even having others read it to give you feedback. And you just may end up surprised that it's not as bad as you thought.
I have some suggestions:
Firstly, even someone like Akira Kurosawa said that writing was like mountain climbing; you can't focus on the 'top'. You just have to take each step at a time or you will get frustrated.
If you haven't heard/read anything by Stephen Pressfield (The War of Art) you may find it helpful. Basically he says that your mind uses fear to stop you (obviously) and that 'resistance' is all about expectation and judgment (that you put on yourself).
Pressfield also makes the point that the 'flow state' comes AFTER you have started, so instead of waiting for inspiration/motivation, just START and struggle/fumble until the flow state arrives. He says this is basically the difference between 'amateur' and 'pro' mindset. The amateur waits, the pro just starts, knowing through experience that things will happen once you concentrate.
Ken Atchity says something similar, about how you can't control what other people think about your art, or whether it is 'good'. All you can do is do the work as best you can. Learn from it, and start another project. It's up to the universe to judge it, or not.
I think, for me, acknowledging that there is this 'fear' we place on ourselves is about mindfulness. We perhaps can't control this feeling, but we can recognise it happening, and in recognising it, and why we feel it (because the project is important to us) we do gain a kind of power over it. We should remember that even the artists we admire have also been through this feeling. He even goes as far as to say you owe it to yourself and the universe to do it. That might sound like a little too much pressure, I don't know.
I think the key is to separate making/finishing something from the expectation or fear you and others might have or how others might judge you when reading it. And remember that when you finish, it won't magically fix everything in life, and there will still also be that anti-climax that comes with finishing a long held goal, so it's good to have another idea already started.
Some practical tips:
(from Brandon Sanderson) Try writing a list of all the reasons you want to write, and write this story. A list just for yourself. It can be as shallow, pretentious and profound as you want. It is purely for you to use as motivation. He also records his word count as a way of staying motivated - as in, he doesn't want to break a cycle.
(Joyce Carol Oates) Try to have a writing routine, get exercise, and avoid distractions. For some a long walk can help to clear the mind or get ideas/problem solve. If you don't already 'journal' in the mornings like 'morning pages' that may help.
Also consider having multiple projects at once so that this one becomes a little less 'precious'. It means you can switch back and forth. So you may find it easier to work for a while on something that doesn't feel important, because the stakes/pressure is lower (even though the focus is still your main project).
Remember that unlike performance art, you can change it as much as you need to before you ever show it to anyone else. Another tip that might work for you, is to write scenes out of order and focus on the scenes you are most excited about. That might motivate you.
And in terms of expectation, just tell the truth. As Charlie Kaufman says, All you can share with the world is you, and who you are, and what you have to say. And if you do it honestly, it will resonate with others, just like other writers and artists resonate with you.
I hope some of that is of use. Anything I've written that doesn't seem right for you just ignore.
@@Ruylopez778 First of all... Wow, thank you so so much! I really cannot thank you enough for having written so many words and suggested so many different solutions/advices.
I will definitely try them out and, again, thank you for spending so much time attending my question!
@@iamluyu No worries! Hope it helps. As well as this channel, I also find Glenn Gers' channel helpful (especially his 'essentials'), 'Writing for Screens'.
You can find clips of Ken Atchity on Film Courage, and clips of Pressfield on Tim Ferriss' channel. 'Writing Excuses' is another free writing resource with lots of tips. All the best.
@@iamluyu Oh, and the Kaufmann comment was from BAFTA Guru, you can find a video and a transcript of it online.
Can you do a video on writing scenes out of order, there doesn’t seem to be any videos on it out there. Thx
running, hiding, flailing, planning and failing and the fails have to do with interior issues which must change so the protag can face the opposition head on in the last 1/4. mid point, protag figures out where she went wrong and why, and she is why-- she changes here.
As always a great video making som crucial points sink into my skull :)
31:13 Harry Potter
Is there a discord or something to discuss your ideas with others?
sorry, maybe because I haven't watched the video about the First Quarter, but I didn't completely get what the first plot point is, can you explain it in text so I can copy it in my notes on this video?
Ellen has an older video specifically on the first plot point. It explains 4 examples and 3 criteria.
th-cam.com/video/ecjaWgKbZg4/w-d-xo.html
Wow! And there are highlights in the description! Thank you for the link, @@Ruylopez778
@@boom_handled
No worries :)
The older videos are as well thought out as the newer ones.
...characters begin to feature more?
I really want to watch this video but I’m really postponing it every time it comes by to watch later when I can make some more time for it to take the info in
ooooooooh.. thanks
As a writer I really love your vids, your content truly is unique and you are one of the best youtubers for writers I know.
One thing though I discovered: I think you could even be more successful if you think more about the title of your vids and make them coherent. I take the series for intuitive and methodological pantsers/plotters for an example. The 4 vids with the tips have 4 really different titles. Why not have the same title and only change the word "methodological pantser" and so on? The same with this video. At the beginning you tell us that it is the 3rd video in a structure-series. But no one can tell / see this because of the title. No 1,2,3 or overall title for the series. So this is only something that I discovered, maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't :)
Sorry for any mistakes, english isn't my mothertongue :)
I hope you get better soon!
Thanks for the video. I hope you feel better soon. :)
Edit: I hate to be a bother, but if you're referencing the movie, it's Philosopher's Stone, not Sorceror's Stone.
In America, they changed the title of both the book and the movie from Philosopher's Stone to Sorcerer's Stone because publishers were worried kids wouldn't understand it was a magic thing with the British book title. So both are actually correct titles :)
@@rebeccadey I never heard it was changed in the movies too. What a waste. How would they explain how it was never referenced as Sorceror's in the movie?
They just swapped 'philosopher' and 'sorcerer' the whole way through. While I do understand the change, for the record, I always thought philosopher sounded better ;)
@@rebeccadey I'm confused. The dialogue in the movie wouldn't change.
Unless they made two versions, maybe, where they filmed each scene with both words (I am not sure tbh), our version here in America used sorcerer's stone all tue way through. Did the British version of the movie use philosopher's stone instead?
My liege, I was really stuck. Now I'm not
Thank
I found the second quarter of this video the most difficult to follow…😉
You're not overly happy with how it turned out? You hope your main points came across?
Lol, sounds an awful lot like what I say about my 2nd acts!