7 Reasons Readers Don't Care About Your Novel's Characters
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2017
- Readers not caring about your characters is a big (and common!) problem. In this video I go over seven reasons that readers, editors, or agents might not connect to your characters.
1. You're not conveying the character's personality.
2. You're talking about what the character is like but you're not showing it.
3. You're showing your character's least flattering traits without giving a reason for why they are that way.
4. You're not conveying what the character wants.
5. You're not showing the problem preventing the character from getting what they want.
6. Your character is a stereotype or built on tropes.
7. You're not including sensory information to place the reader in the character's shoes.
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What kind of monster hates Winnie the Pooh?
He's kinda annoying
He's an icon of patriarchy. A reason will be found.
Oh bother
My mother wasn't fond of the books.
The antagonist
An example of showing over telling:
George R.R. Martin tells us Gregor Clegane is a nasty person.
George R.R. Martin shows Gregor Clegane chopping off his own horse's head in a fit of rage before attacking Ser Loras Tyrell.
I liked him, both the Cleganes. :D
Maybe the horse was evil and nasty.
breh. dats fucked up.
@@wjrasmussen666 Ser Loras's mare was in heat. Ser Gregor's horse was horny, so he beheaded it in a fit of rage.
@@eavesDropSound Ser Gregor also:
-stuffed his brother's face in a hearth fire
-raped and murdered Elia Martell
-crushed baby Aegon's like a strongman crushing a cantaloupe with his bare hands
-tortured Vargo Hoat to death (Vargo was the _only_ person who actually deserved what the Mountain did to him)
-crushed Oberyn Martell's head like a watermelon for demanding he confess the aforementioned murders of Elia and Aegon
I hate, hate, HATE when others in a story talk about how sickly nice a character is but the way they are actually portrayed just makes them creepy.
EXAMPLE 1: the Notebook when Ryan Goslings' character LITERALLY THREATENS TO KILL HIMSELF IF SOME RANDOM WOMAN HE DOESN'T KNOW REFUSES TO GO OUT WITH HIM. And the woman's friends are all "OOH HES SUCH A NICE GUY THOUGH"🙄
Or the other way around, when you're supposed to hate someone but they come across as relateable. Or when someone's suppose to be the butt of every joke, but it just makes all the characters you're suppose to like seem mean for dumping on them.
It would be nice if some character told us that guy is nice AF and later he was revealed to be a nasty arse, just so the MC discovers that said character was in an abusive relationship with that guy and they developed Estocolmo syndrome
Bruna Yamaguchi, Ha this is what I’m doing. The Hero of the story is the narrator of the story, and is portrait as a realy nice and forgiving person, but the story hints at him having harsh judgments on new characters for no reason, but people seem to agree. In the last chapter, it will be in the ‘Villains’ point of view, where the readers see that the ‘Hero’ was using them to stay popular by creating and leading attacks against there self, then blaming it on the ‘villains’. Cuz’ I love misleading readers
I HATE that too.
And it happens A LOT. At least in the books I read.
And because of that in the fandoms too.
I often find it hard6to relate to/like the characters because of that.
If you tell me they are a good person then consistently SHOW them being genuinely good! Not just being nice out of pity 2 or 3 times and only nice to the few people they like but being a judgmental jerk with anger management issues all the rest of the time!
I love that there is 0% fat in these videos. I feel like there wasn't a second I wasn't learning something. Thankyou.
Ikr? She's always on point with her videos. Just straight to the point. Love it.
@@kristinaa.2911 Yeah. I feel like I've become a better writer, not only from listening to the content but also the delivery.
@@Randomcorpse Totally agreed
*Sugar. Fat is good for you.
Trying to make the character likeable by having the character do too many good deeds, may backfire by making the character seam unrealistic.
2:25 1. Not conveying the character's personality or conveying an unintended personality.
3:59 2. Telling instead of showing the character's personality.
5:35 3. Showing the character's negative traits but not explaining why the character has those traits.
6:40 4. Not indicating what the character wants or longs for.
7:19 5. Not introducing an obstacle to what the character wants.
8:05 6. The character is a stereotype or a trope.
8:50 7. Not putting the reader in the character's shoes by not giving information from the character's senses.
tysm!
The worst words someone can say about your characters: “I don’t care about/what happens to any of these people.”
Ikr, I just reading Tower of God and Noblesse on webtoon and those were my thoughts about them
@@akgwriting9481 Really? Interesting, was it full-on apathy or did they just not click? Personal preference typically doesn’t factor into audience apathy, even characters we don’t like have *something* that registers with us. There is a *steep* difference in saying a character isn’t interesting and saying you don’t care about them.
@@Minnesota_Fatts I'm not entirely sure but honestly they're worse than Elsa from frozen. They don't have a proper personality and the way it's set up in the beginning is just so...I only read the beginning few episodes and I really don't care, I couldn't get myself into it, at all
I felt very much like this after trying to watch the first episode of Arcane. I honestly only remember Silco from the last scene and that was about it. I had a conversation with my friend about it to no avail and don't understand why it even got popular in the first place. I mean I understand why squid game blew up in the first episode, everyone wanted to know what would become of these characters once they re-entered the island. At the end of the first episode for Arcane umm...not so much...
Im here because part way through writing my stories I find I don't like my own characters lol
Wawa me to...
Sara Wawa I think that's a form of social anxiety
Sara,
You wrote this comment nearly a year ago. Are you still writing that story with those characters? Have you overcome this particular issue with them?
^^
Sara Wawa i don't even get half way before not liking my characters xD but truth be told. Half the guys are really bad sons of a bitch because yeah i love my good old mean spirited, selfish etc characters xD
Wait, who doesn't like Winnie? He's a chubby little cubby all stuffed with fluff! He's a silly willy nilly old bear! I love Winnie!
BrookLynn Yates. I don't like him.always hated his voice .
Oh wow your pic is a painting I have on my wall. Been in my house since I was little.
I hate him because I see myself in him... :C
Ever heard of Xi Jinping?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping
"He???"
I've now watched several of your videos. Thank you for jamming them full of USEFUL, RELEVANT information! There's nothing more annoying than clicking on a writing tutorial and having to sit through an impromptu 60-second review of the vlogger's new favorite latte, extraneous info about how they feel about their hairdo that day, or a cameo featuring their boyfriend/girlfriend. Your videos show that you respect your viewers' time, and frankly, I fricken appreciate it. Thanks! Subscribed!
Honestly, I don't mind short interludes. Just because you'd rather forget that the people making the video are in fact human beings with lives, that doesn't mean we're all so quick to dehumanise. Sometimes it's hard to get a take of the video where your dogs/kids/partner isn't interrupting; after all, their lives do not revolve around TH-cam.
But sure, if it's going on and on and on, it gets annoying fast. If I click on a seven minute video and the first full 60 seconds has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I'm gonna start getting irritated. That's a full seventh of the video dedicated to something I didn't sign up for.
@@LordofFullmetal You just invalidated her by saying she was "quick to dehumanize," then you validated her same point based on your own personal conditions. The point is, a lot of people don't appreciate the self-indulgent intros. When a TH-camr advertises education, but then tries to get their audience to focus on "the entertainer" rather than the topic itself, it can be frustrating to people who are genuinely trying to learn (regardless of ratios and regardless of the fact that the TH-camrs are also "human beings"). With that being said, not enjoying those types of intros does not mean we are unfeeling people who would "rather forget they are human beings." It's not that cold; we just have a different preference in video styles. We would rather watch something that gets to the point a bit faster.
I also agree with the op because this channel not only gets to the point, but has a dense amount of useful information. As aspiring writers, watching this channel is time well spent.
The other day I just clicked and clicked through a video that spent the first 8 minutes of a full 12 minutes talking about extraneous things, and the "meat" of the helpful info was all of about 50 seconds. TH-cam is a wonderful pace and I love it, but not all channels are of the same caliber that's for sure 😆 Watching vloggers is fun, but if a channel or video is billed as a teaching, with a "how to" or a "why" in the title, it's just clickbait if they don't deliver. So grateful for generous people like Ellen!
Friend didn't believe me when i told them you can find tutorials for anything on TH-cam. You just earned me a dollar. Thank you. Oh and subscribe because these are very helpful.
Agreed
WHO THE HECK SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE SAMWISE GAMGEE
STEP UP AND FIGHT ME YOU COWARDS!!
Milkywolf Z my reaction exactly ✊
And Winnie the Pooh!!!!! What?!?!?! How do you hate them??????!!!!
I don't like him, sorry XP
Is there anyone who can honestly say they liked Ron Weasley? I think not.
AlbinosaurusR3X book ron? Movie ron is painful but Ron from the books is one of my favorite characters. Yes he fucks up a lot. And badly in addition to that. But that's human. No matter what kind of falling out he had with harry he always came back or helped another way. Just remember the ridiculous setup he did to show harry the dragons when he was literary so mad at harry he wouldn't speak to him! That's what i liked about ron. He actually feels more human to me than for instance Harry. Rons behavior even perfectly matches his background. Like he literally knows when he was concieved Molly and Arthur only fucked because they wanted a girl. And one year later a girl comes and steals his spot as the parents darling while he's the smallest and weakest of his brothers. And his only friend he makes on the train is pretty much Wizard Jesus.
And Harry, despite all tries of Rowling to make him more human, is a gary stue first order to me. Handsome (and read Harry's description it is attractive especially in later books when he hell knows how despite his abuse in his childhood grows to his fathers height). He has literally no mental scars from the dursleys, handles nearly being killed several times like it's nothing. When he gets pissed it's usually "just" and ofc he doesn't think twice about getting his ass killed to protect everyone. I mean the last bit would even work with the strong inferiority complex Harry SHOULD have. But yeah i think Ron is a far better character. He's by no means flawless not even from a writing perspective, but he makes sense
thank you, im a very young writer with a crazy story, and only 10K words, and this helps me see my mistakes more clearly.
Number 1 should have been: Stop creating obvious Mary Sue's. 😂
Thanks for the tips! Can be really helpful
Miss Mermade to be fair, Mary Sues can easily be a topic for a whole video like this: th-cam.com/video/H2-GIY9RTqU/w-d-xo.html
Hey guys! I'm so excited to have a new camera, new mic, and new background!
I've wanted to bring you guys higher quality videos since I started my channel so I really hope you enjoy the improvements! (I'm still working on my editing skills.)
I appreciate you all supporting me through my technological struggles. Thanks so much for watching! Happy writing!
You come and go in waves but so happy when you are back.
Thank you! I make videos during my Novel Boot Camp event in the summer, but it's hard for me to find time the rest of the year. I'm going to try to find a way to fit it into my regular schedule. Thanks for watching!
Great to see you back, Ellen. Thanks for all you do.
Ellen Brock the sound and overall video quality has gotten so much better over the years :)
Ellen Brock welcome back
I am amazed and impressed with the thoroughness of her lesson. She’s able to communicate her ideas so succinctly it makes me want to watch more. I wish I had a friend like her.
For me, your advice is not only helpful for storytelling in general, but helps in making my experiential documentation about the ins-and-outs of how I document what's going on in my job, and therefore fortify my chances of defending for myself against a coworker whose accusation is way convinced for anyone to get fooled, but for my way of convincing a supervisor to get what's real about my terrible experience as an employee.
This video makes me curious about Severus Snape. He wasn't very dynamic in the first book, but I'm sure a lot of people were surprised that they cared about his fate. What if his initial characterization was rejected for being too flat?
Given that Snape was a minor character in the beginning, this would not have mattered. Also, because his secrets are not revealed until the climax of the series, it's best to have his true persona hiding behind a veneer of seemingly cliche villainy.
I think it also has something to do with the first books being more childish. Kids usually see characters as good or bad, older readers, around let's say, book four can get the grasp of a grey character and their struggle apart from the protaginist's
@@noahhenson1669 I never liked that in the last book. It felt like this giant info dump at the very end
Wait, there are people that hate Samwise!?
I am shook lol
I realized I had a problem with the relationship between two characters that were supposed to like each other. At first, I thought she didn't get enough screen-time (the MC obviously did) so I tried writing more scenes with her. Then I realized that wasn't the problem. The problem was that she didn't speak with the MC enough. She was there, hanging with, but didn't say or interact much. Adding that interaction made it a lot better. Funny how it was so clear in my head when I wrote it, I didn't notice that it was so lacking at first. I had a friend read it and she pointed it out that she didn't like that character and I had to find out why. XD
Somehow TH-cam knows I am writing a novel and suggested me this video. This helped thanks!
The tip about characters needing to want something rather than being content with what they have is spot-on (to a point I lose investment in my own characters if they're happy with life), but it also just reminded me of my favorite semi-"subversion" of that.
I absolutely adore Reluctant Heroes who _would_ be perfectly happy and have no great aspirations, but get dragged around by the plot and thrown into situations they can't ignore. Of course that creates a situation where they do still have a goal they're striving for, namely getting back to enjoying a normal quiet life, so it's not a full subversion. But I do love where the average protagonist is striving to make things happen, occasionally you find the char who just wants things to stop happening, and I always end up giggling at the thought of a well-written Reluctant Hero and the perpetual state of 'done with everything' that tends to come with it. ♥
anyone who hates Samwise Gamgee is wrong
People that hates Sam usually hates him because he's too giving and good. They feel him unreal.
I fell for Sam and was awfully disappointed to find out he had a girlfriend. *He* was my hero.
He's the real hero of Lord of the Rings.
@@sunnydargonnel My sister dislikes him because of his treatment towards Smeagol.
@@confessionsofadreamer488 he tried killing them or taking the ring several times I don’t this Sam was being unreasonable
Who can hate Sam Gamgee and Winnie the Pooh???😭
But I definitely get what you're saying! Your videos are wonderful!
I know making novels is very different, but i find this very useful for scripting
I think I got the characters being likable part done. Well at least with the small group of people that read the book I’m currently writing, so I’ll find out in the future if my characters are actually likable.
So glad you're back, Ellen! I love your videos!
Glad to have you back! Love your videos, they've helped me grow in my story telling. Keep up the good work.
WELCOME BACK!!!! YOUR VIDEOS ARE THE BEST!
This is just what I need, really looking forward to these coming videos as they'll be helpful in writing my novel. When you mentioned tropes and stereotypes my mind went straight to my antagonist so I'm glad that you're talking about antagonists in tomorrow's video. Thanks for the writing advice
Great to see a new Ellen video! My goal is to use your editing service when I'm done with my novel(s), one beautiful day!
Ah, man, stupid youtube, didn't notice me that you started doing videos again... on the other hand, now I have almost 20 videos to binge watch :D
Superb video and great to have you back!
i was shocked about the sensory information because i had never noticed how important it is but looking back at the books i have read its what can bring me back in the story if the plot subsides.
You're back!! So glad :) I always LOVE and get so much out of your videos Ellen!! The new camera and other equipment really does make a difference too! Can't wait to see more! 😃
Great to see you making videos again!
For me, what makes Your videos stand out, is Your commitment to adress every question or topic on eye level. I never get the feeling, that You find a topic simple! Keep up the good work!
Wow. You are awesome! As another person pointed out: Your sound quality is wonderful. Your speaking is clear and to the point. Your attitude is totally professional while being very positive and encouraging. Your knowledge of the subject and ability to convey that knowledge is exceptional. Very impressive.
Thank you so much for these videos. I'm honestly not really planning to write fiction. I am watching because I am planning to run an old-school AD&D game for my family and what is that but telling a story? Maybe someday I'll write a work of fiction. Maybe not. Until then you are helping me to be a better story-teller and I am very thankful that you decided to make these videos.
So happy to have new videos! Your previous ones have helped me a lot! ^_^
Great video! I love your approach in sharing your information to those who want to learn. There are other TH-camrs out there that are very condescending in how they've done their videos... (i.e. yeah tropes... "DON'T DO THAT"). Your method is very helpful. Thank you Ellen!
Hey there! Newcomer here. I don't usually leave comments in the videos I watch, but I'm really enjoying your videos!
I am in the process of writing my first novel, and I've been watching pretty much every video I've found about writing on TH-cam. There's lots of great advice out there, but your videos are really concise and to the point, and I love them! They have been very helpful to me. It's great that you don't make long, boring introductions and instead go straight to the point. It also really shows how much you know about the things you are discussing in your videos.
Just wanted to say that! I hope someday, when I finish my novel (so in about a zillion years, because I'm going at a George R.R. Martin pace here) I can hire your services as an editor! You really convey how proficient you are at your craft!
Keep being awesome! And congrats on the new cam and mic!
Hi Ellen, Long time no see. It's really good to see someone who knows what they are talking about. Thanks for everything. You make me think about things I have written and to go back and check them again to see if they can be improved upon. thanks again.
P.S. My son is a redhead, there are many in my family.
Thank you for the awesome advice! Great to see you back.
Your videos are very helpful and they inspire me to keep improving my writing!
Having listened to several of your programs, I want to thank-you for all your helpful tips. I look forward to listening to your advice in the future as an aspiring writer.
Ellen, really enjoy all your videos, but this one was by far the most helpful for me. Learned a lot in ten minutes. Keep up the good work!
Finally! An list video with the list in the description.
Glad you're back. Love your content.
I have been writing a fantasy children's book with my daughter. It is a challenge to make the characters relatable because they are not human. Some of my favorite writers pull it off beautifully, they know how to anthropomorphize their subjects and differentiate their personalities. Your videos have been a big help. Thank you :)
in the first 5 seconds of your video i picked out ken kesey (one of my faves!), cormac mccarthy, and the scary stories book i read as a child. we have a lot to discuss. lol
love the new background!
I wish the background were a bit clearer because I put so many good books on the shelves! Glad you like it!
So very happy to see you back in fabulous form Ellen!
P.S. Love the background and sound quality is much improved :-)
I've only just discovered your channel and I am so happy I found you! I've been trying to maker a graphic novel for a while now and your videos are helping me so much with figuring out how to put together my plot, story arcs, and world building. Thank you so much!!
I usually stop connecting with characters when they start making really stupid decisions. Then you're stuck wondering if they're an idiot or if you missed something. Especially when these dumb decisions are the only form of problem and the only thing driving the plot.
You're back! Thank you so much for your videos!
Hey Ellen, thank you so much for the very interesting, informative and helpful videos. I have watched them all and can't wait for the next one. The subject is very interesting and I am sure you will share many useful tips for how to create a believable antagonist.
Yesss! you are back❤ loving your background
Thank you! I worked really hard on it!
Love listening to you talk, you are so right to the point, and with Clear examples you really make it easy to understand what you mean. Thank you for sharing all this information for free
I had been having a hard time writing and just hating my own character. Thank you for this video.
Thank you so much! I've learned a lot from your videos. Straight to the point, clear explanation and some good examples. I hope to see more of you😊💓
nice to see your back.
This was the second video of yours that I watched. Your points are very helpful and well articulated. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Yay! So happy you're back!!
Great advice, Ellen. I pride myself on being able to create very well rounded characters... So naturally, I'm always paranoid that I'm doing a terrible job of it xD thanks fo offering some hard and fast rules.
Thank you for this great video! I'm working on editing a novel at the moment, and your advice here has given me some ideas on how to strengthen my characters. I look forward to your antagonist video; I want to be able to transfer the crazy, scary onto the page as well as possible.
Great to see another video from you! I've been struggling with my novel and hopefully another round of Novel Boot Camp will get me back on track!
I think you give fantastic advice and it's great to have an editor's perspective on writing. I even hope to utilize your editing and/or mentoring services one day, and actually have an inquiry email saved in my drafts for when I am ready to take the next step in my novel writing journey.
In the meantime, I look forward to seeing more great advice videos from you!
Thank you! I have a lot of videos planned for August so I really hope they help you out!
Great update. Keep up the good work. I know you are busy, but PLEASE don't forget to feed that 'triceratops'
Awesome video. I learned a lot from you. I'm just starting to write again after many many years of not writing! Thank you for all this helpful information!
Very nice! I can tell this is going to be very useful to me and others - It's useful already. Looking forwards to more content.
Ellen, I really love your videos. This one has been particularly useful. Thanks!
I really appreciate these videos. They've been very helpful so far. Thank you!
Yaaayyy !! Your videos are immensely helpful, and I'm so happy you've returned. Thank you for all your hard work, Ellen !
Please keep doing your videos, I love them all.
Glad to see you're back!
Whee! Great to see you back, love your content! :)
She's back!
I like you, you have a great manner of delivery. Also your advice is helpful :D thanks for making these!
I love the advices you share, well I'm trying to write a screenplay therefore compelling characters are essential for this too, so I find your videos (specially this one) very useful to me. Thank you so much.
Great content. I'm moving my way through your stuff. Thanks for the value!
First time writing really trying to get through more than 2 chapters of a book, still word building and 7 chapters in and I SUPER NEEDED THIS!!
I love reading and what i was writing just was not reflecting what I love in characters and all of the points you made make total sense.
Defs need more sensory info, and also the thing about establishing the characters drive and personality int he first chapter were super clarifying! I also just got a great idea of what to introduce as a first 'hurdle' for my character to encounter before the main action starts to happen!
Thank you so much!!
world building**
THe only crappy thing is now that i have to rewrite my entire story so far RIP
I'm glad you made this video.
And I already watched the antagonist video :)
1:53
There are people who don't like Sam???
WHERE ARE THEY???
I'll take care of it. 😂
I'm enjoying your videos. They're reinforcing my confidence, it seems I'm actually a good writer.
I love your videos. You're knowledgeable and get straight to the point.
Thank you so much! Looking forward to the next videos.
Thank you so much for those helpful tips!
I think this is your best video yet.
Another very helpful video, thank you Ellen.
I'm writing my first novel right now and these videos have been so helpful! Thank you very much!
for the fifth reason when you said to create a smaller problem, that’s exactly how my book starts, the real conflict wont start until the second chapter but in the firsts she has drama with her crush
Great stuff Ellen, thank you for your knowledge!
Best vlog on the Internet. Thank you!
Your videos have been so useful! thank you very much, greetings from Chile :)
This is a great video! Thank you Ellen!
You are super-articulate, with really useful info. Thanks
I find these videos very helpful. Thanks a lot.
Gotta love Ellen!
Wow this video was actually...really great! I subscribed :D
You're back!!!!! Hooray!!!!
Yay!!! Glad school is back in session!
Thank you so much! My sister and I are aspiring authors- well, I'm an aspiring author, she already writes. Anyways! I'm trying to weave through ideas for my novel, which doesn't have a name yet.. heh. This is actually helping me a lot, so thank you again!
welcome back!
This is really good stuff! Thanks!