Repertoire: The IDEAL Mozart Late Symphonies
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2021
- Mozart's last six symphonies, Nos. 35-41 (there is no 37), have always been grouped together and set apart--his most mature and expressive essays in the medium. Here is my IDEAL list for your consideration: six conductors with six different orchestras, and no weak links among them. Feel free to offer your list as well. Between us, I know we'll come up with the ultimate collection of Mozartean symphonic magic.
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Love your description of Klemperer's Mozart symphonies 😊
Totally agree with you about Charles Mackerras late Mozart Symphony Cycle with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. I’ve listened to these works all my life and this set has definitely given me the most pleasure. And you were right about the Prague
it is definitely the best of the best!
agree！All of the Symphonies in this album are the best of the best
Glad to hear Klemperer get a mention. I don’t listen to much Mozart, but Klemperer was one of the finest Mozarteans of all time. Love the Austria quip in the CD shop.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 yes, I haven’t really heard Klemperer’s Haydn, but I’ve heard it’s fabulous. I will fix this gap in my knowledge soon.
Even as a historically conscious German I find that Hitler comment absolutely hilarious! You got my like for that this time ;-)
Some of my favorite Mozart late symphony conductors: Dohnanyi (by no means worse than Szell who was also magnificent of course), Suitner (with Staatskapelle, even better than Davis in my view), Klemperer (the most "symphonic" Mozart), Mackerras (the perfect allround Mozart), Walter (what a musicality!)... but I always find it difficult to shape an "ideal" list out of my favorites. I've yet to listen to Muti!
A year late and a dollar short. I was nevertheless thrilled-after holding my breath- that you mentioned Klemperer’s 39 as your fave. One for the ages, in my view. 👌👍🏻🙏
A birthday gift!! Thank you very much!!
I just listened to the Sandor Vegh G minor.
And oh WOW!! It was an absolute revelation!! I now think this symphony was absolutely romantic in its conception. Those singing soulful lines and subtle dissonances. I have always loved this Symphony but this takes it to new heights.
I feel like this is Mozart's greatest symphonic masterpiece even beyond 41's contrapuntal fireworks. It is gut punching and relentless and just very directly expressive.
I love Klemperer's Mozart, it has been a sort of revelation to me, and I would not have expected it at a time when I thought I was doing good by purchasing the Jaap Ter Linden box of complete symphonies. I am not dissing Linden, it is fine, just wow, the depth that Klemperer brings out of this music, it is hard to go back.
Thank you, Dave!!
These are all great choices! What a joyous playlist they make together! I'd probably have to add Sir Thomas Beecham in there somewhere though. He was one of the most amazing Mozart conductors!
Your quip to the Viennese lady reminded me of a monologue by Michael Flanders when he said that such and such a famous composer or musical performer was a great artist...."we have several of his paintings at home". Or the old gag, ,"I just purchased a Rembrandt and a Stradivarius. The trouble is, Stradivarius was a lousy painter and Rembrandt was terrible at making violins..."
Wonderful list. My own picks (with a few conductors repeated, but with different symphonies):
No. 35: Szell, Cleveland
No. 36: Bernstein, VPO (Decca)
No. 38: Davis, Staatskapelle Dresden
No. 39: Walter, Columbia
No. 40: Mackerras, London Philharmonic
No. 41: Jochum, Boston
Thank you for the video , the Mackerras recordings are fantastic
Great talk David. Those last 6 symphonies by Mozart are treasure troves of great music no doubt. Great pick by the way. My personal choices would be the following :
35 Cleveland and Szell
36 Berlin Philharmonic and Böhm
38 Czech Philharmonic and Honeck
39 New York Philharmonic and Bruno Walter
40 Chamber Orchestra of Europe and Harnoncourt
41 The English Concert with Trevor Pinnock (Yes a period performance but a GOOD one ! )
Hope this is useful.
Very much enjoy many of the versions offered by Dave and others here. Forgive for bringing up options that are sets, but the Marriner/Academy St. Martin-in-the Fields set (Nos. 21-41)/Phillips CDs that I purchased ~ 30 years ago is a good analog-recorded 'middle road' approach that continues to satisfy. If one wants to live a bit on the wild side, the recent Herzog/emsemble appassionato/naive set traversing Nos. 39-41 are worth a spin. Thanks, Dave, for the video.
My List: Symphony 35 - Szell, Walter; 36 - Szell, Walter; 38 - Szell, Walter, 39 - Bernstein, Bohm, Toscanini, Walter, Klemperer; 40 - Walter, Reiner, Klemperer, Bohm, Bernstein; 41 - Szell, Beecham, Walter, Klemperer. Overall, I say Walter with his loving approach to Mozart.
Where would I find #36 by Szell? I know there is a live #38 floating around.
Love your list! I judge my #41 based on the coda to movt 4. Walter is hands-down the best, and--despite my being a Szellot--Walter's 1956 NYP, with its powerful base voice entry to the fugue, is tops!
I loooove the Linz Symphony! It's a homerun under homeruns! Listen to the first subject of the finale, it's one of Mozart greatest melodies.
Also, I get to really appreciate the Jupiter Symphony through Jochum's Boston recording on DG. Before that revelation, I really thought of the 41st as overrated..
How wrong was I? Well, that's why we should keep on listening.
Ahhh....and Szell's Mozart 40.....it's an ankle-breaker of a performance!
Great recommendations! Will you do a video like this for the last six Haydn masses? Here are my picks:
35 Scottish Chamber OrchestraMackerras
36 Bamberger Symphoniker/Jochum
38 Czech Philharmonic/Honeck
39 Cleveland Orchestra/Dohnányi
40 Staatskapelle Dresden/Blomstedt
41 Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra/Bernstein
Thank you.
Brian
May I put in a bid for The Australian Chamber Orchestra, directed from the violin by Richard Tognetti, performing Mozart’s three final symphonies. Personally, I think the 41st (Jupiter) is the best of these, but perhaps I am biased as it happens to be my favourite Mozart symphony. One doesn’t usually look to Australia for outstanding performances of Eighteenth Century Austrian compositions, but Tognetti’s direction is a revelation.
I like also the late Mozart Symphonies with italian conductor Peter Maag.
For me the list would be:
35 Szell/Cleveland Orchestra
36 Kubelik/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
38 Böhm/Berlin Philharmonic
39 Klemperer/Philharmonia Orchestra
40 Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
41 Bernstein/Vienna Philharmonic
Great video! Many thanks! Some random comments... A choice not yet mentioned is Sandor Vegh's Mozart 39th on Orfeo. It's as good as his 40th or 41st, which is saying a great deal. Of all the performances mentioned in the video, I think those by Vegh are the most special. Vegh's 39th is coupled with a very fine, but less good, 38th. I agree with the high praise given to Klemperer's 38th (both 1956 and 1962 - I prefer the latter). I know some don't like Abbado's Mozart, but his 38th with the Orchestra Mozart is wonderful. There is great excitement in Mackerras' Mozart symphonies, but there's something special in his 40th - some might hear it as upbeat, but I sense something almost despairing in its freneticism (I tend to like performances of Mozart that heighten the melancholic that is very present in much of his music). As for Szell, I think his greatest Mozart symphony performance is his Cleveland Haffner. Here's my list
35 - Szell
36 - Davis (SKD)
38 - Abbado (the second movement in particular is very moving, though I expect DH to disagree!)
39 - Vegh
40 - Mackerras (since I can't have Vegh again)
41 - Klemperer (though I was tempted to put him down for the 38th)
Glad to see Colin Davis in there.
And I’d be so grateful if you or anyone can remind me who was the Maestro, a famous Mozartean, in this exchange:
‘Maestro, who is your preferred composer?’
‘I think it could be Beethoven’
‘We thought you might say Mozart’
‘Ah, I meant among all the others after Mozart’.
The anecdote is possibly apocryphal, but it is attributed to Klemperer.
Never heard any of the Muti Mozart symphonies until Mr. Hurwitz recommended them a while back - #35 both lively and rich, articulate, even operatic in its give-and-take. My #36 is Bohm/BPO, so natural, with delicious details from liquid woodwind. #38 is Maag and the great LSO, still sounding fresh after 60 years. Same to be said for Walter's #39, power and charm in equal measures. (And what a third movement trio!) #40 goes to Casals/Marlboro - gosh, the old guy could absolutely
electrify music, loudly exhorting it along the way. On headphones, you can hear Szell doing the same in #41, absolutely tops.
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡GRACIAS POR LA TRADUCCIÓN!!!!!
I could add my versions, but I’d rather just take my hat off to Dave, especially what he said in the last minute. This is a grand resource for beginner, intermediate and expert! And I’m glad it’s also (seemingly) a thriving business for DH.
Great list Dave. Some of them are my favourites as well. I have a few alternatives that I keep coming back to though.
Sym 35 Kertész/VPO
Sym 36 Prague PO/Belohlávek
Sym 38 LSO/Maag
Sym 39 Cleveland /Dohnányi
Sym 40 Kocsis/HNP
Sym 41 VPO/Bernstein
Damn, I forgot about Jochum/Boston for Sym 41 but I have Bernie. Decisions, decisions
My own list has a mix of historical and modern instruments:
35 - Szell/Cleveland - it's Szell duh
36 - Brüggen/Orchestra of the 18th Century - this one's very fast and energetic, last movement is insane but very fun to listen to
38 - Suitner/Dresden - My first Prague symphony. Quite a bit better than Davis IMO because it has more Spritzigkeit.
39 - Pinnock/English Concert - the whole Pinnock set is excellent. best Mozart on historical instruments
40 - Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra - the perfect blend between old school and "historically informed" school
41 - Böhm/Berlin - Böhm is my favorite of the grumpy old German/Austrian conductors. Huge but not too heavy and I like the sound more than Klemp's.
Some possibilities to consider that may not automatically come to mind:
35: Boult / LPO (sparkle and vitality aplenty in outer movements & divided violins)
36: C Kleiber / VPO (video) ; Giulini / PO (BBC Legends)
38: Britten / ECO ; Krips / RCO
39: Nikolic / NCO (influenced by period practice, but a big performance with repeats observed and without rushed tempos, and super recorded sound)
40: Wand / NDR ; Giulini / VPO (Orfeo) (broadly paced of course but rhythmically alive)
41: Nikolic / NCO (for similar reasons to 39) ; Jochum / BSO
Very difficult choice but…
35 : Walter/New York (Sony mono)
36 : Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw (Teldec)
38 : Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden (Denon)
39 : Muti/Vienna (Philips)
40 : Brüggen/Orchestra 18th century (Philips)
41 : Menuhin/Sinfonia Varsovia (Virgin)
The choices are indeed vast-
35 - Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra
36 - Walter and the Columbia Symphony
38 - Klemperer and the Philharmonia (1956)
39 - Bernstein and the Vienna Philharmonic
40 - Sawallisch and the Czech Philharmonic
41 - Jochum and the Boston Symphony
But I have to admit that the list is not fixed in granite - Davis, Dohnany, Mackerras, and Muti also receive a fair share of my listening time when I want to hear this music (as well as Bruggen, who for my money is the most imaginative of the HIP group.)
I would add "34" to the "Late Symphonies." Along with IDOMENEO, it strikes me as the point when Mozart truly "came of age."
(25, 29 & the Sinfonia Concertante K. 364 are at the very OUTER end of his adolescence.)
With that caveat, my list:
34: Kubelik/Chicago
35: Walter/NY Phil
36 Beecham/LPO (NOBODY gets as droll as Sir Tommy does at the end of the 3rd movement.)
38 Mackkeras/Prague, ties with Szell/Cleveland live (they never did it for Columbia or EMI)
39 Schmidt-Isserstedt/LSO
40 Davis/Dresden
41 Bohm/Concertgebouw (Bohm with van Beinum's band!) ties with Szell/Cleveland
I do not have that kind of list, but with Mozart symphonies I gravitate to Fricsay, Klemperer, and Walter :)
My list:
35: Marriner/ASMF
36: Belohlavek/BBC Symphony
38: Walter/Columbia SO
39: Szell/Cleveland
40: Harnoncourt/COE
41: Mackerras/Scottish CO (though I could have chosen Mackerras for all six!)
35.- Beecham/Royal Phil
36.- Böhm/Berliner Phil
38.- Jochum/Bamberg
39.- Klemperer/NPO
40.- Furtwängler/Wiener Phil.
41.- Jeffrey Tate/English Ch Orch.
My options:
No. 35: Bernstein, Wiener (DG).
No. 36: Kubelík, SOBR (Sony).
No. 38: Barenboim, English Chamber Orchestra (EMI).
No. 39: Klemperer, Philharmonia (EMI).
No. 40: Böhm, Berliner (DG).
No. 41: Klemperer, Wiener (Testament) and Walter, Columbia (Sony).
I love these choices from Dave et al. I would like to recommend Jochum with the Bamberg Symphony, especially for no. 40 since that work is not represented in the Jochum box! In fact, I would like to know if there is another Jochum 40th out there other than the one with Bamberg….
There is, DG 1958 in mono.
The one with the Bambergers (which I am about to order) is currently available from Orfeo, who have a 2 CD compilation of Jochum’s Mozart symphonies 39 to 41 (plus Masonic) originally released by Eurodisc.
Great video and a great list. I haven't yet found the Vegh recording of syms 40 & 41 on CD , however - on HMV Japan I came across a live recording of Vegh conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in syms 39 & 40, from 1992 in Salzburg, on the Belvedere label. I am really tempted to give this a shot, as it is likely excellent. Have you heard this ? If so, what do you think? Thanks very much.
No, I haven't heard it.
For any of the last six Mozart Symphonies, I'd pick a recording made by the Prague Chamber Orchestra under Charles Mackerras, on Telarc. For 35 and 41 I am in a bind: Bavarian Radio Symphony under Wolfgang Sawallisch, on Hänssler. That said, here is my list:
35: Wolfgang Sawallisch, Bavarian RSO (Hänssler)
36: Rafael Kubelik, Bavarian RSO (Sony)
38: Charles Mackerras, Prague Chamber Orchestra (Telarc)
39: Karl Münchinger, Klassische Philharmonie Stuttgart (Saphir - don’t know under which label today)
40: Hartmut Haenchen, Carl Philip Emmanuel Bach Chamber Orchestra (Berlin Classics)
41: Jeffrey tate, English Chamber Orchsetra (EMI, now Warner Classics)
Symphony #39 has always been my favorite. But I've always been curious about the non-existent 37. Is it true that Michael Haydn attempted to finish it. Finally, wanted to mention that Saint-Seans quoted the finale of Mozart's 41st in his Symphony in A, in the first movement.
No, it is not true. Mozart wrote the introduction to an earlier Michael Haydn symphony.
No. 35 Bernstein and VPO
No. 36 Davis and Staats Dresden
No. 38 and 39 Marriner and ASMF (the newer recording on EMI, now Warner)
No. 40 Mackerras and Prague CO
No. 41 Jochum Boston SO
The Marriner disc was the second classical recording I purchased in the mid 80’s, and I always come back to these performances of 38 and 39. They just sound right to me. Sorry for cheating the ideal list but I can’t help it when it comes to these two symphonies
I've always felt Marriner got the tempos exactly right - his tempos never drag, and the music always sounds very well balanced. Unfortunately, the ASMF lacks a lot of bottom end, which is what I started going to Klemperer for, and then to discover through his EMI The Klemperer Legacy discs that I could also hear woodwind where I never noticed them before. So now Klemperer's Symphony No. 38 is almost the exclusive one that I listen to. The Haffner finale has a buoyantly rip-roaring good time when performed by The English Baroque Soloists, conducted by John Eliot Gardiner (Philips Mozart For Your Mind). In fact, like your situation with Marriner, so is the case for me and the recordings on Mozart For Your Mind - everything else just sounds either too fast, too slow, too slick (Karajan), or too sloppy. Often our first exposure sets our taste for everything else. So it is interesting that a 'weighty', and often slow conductor like Klemperer* can stand out amongst all others.
*Klemperer's early recording of Mozart's Symphony 25 is even faster than Marriner's - it's quite shocking to hear!
@@Warstub I will definitely give the Klemperer a listen. Thank you!
You were absolutely right to point out that Hitler was Austria's greatest painter, Dave! As Mel Brooks says: "He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon! Two coats! "
My list:
35 Cleveland/Szell
36 Staatskapelle Dresden, Davis
38 Concertgebouw, Krips
39 Scottish Chamber Orchestra, Saraste
40 Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, no conductor but a great recording!
41 SCO, Mackerras
Not 'greatest,' but 'most famous.' It was the way she said it that got me to thinking. I would never call Hitler "great," but say what you will, he was famous!
Muti's cycle is available on CD from Presto
Not going to do a full alternative listings, but I will mention some conductors I absolutely love in this repertoire who weren't mentioned in the talk.
First, I've always had a soft spot for Harnoncourt's Prague Symphony with the Concertgebouw; and unlike other soft-spots of this kind, I still love it today. I don't always warm to Harnoncourt in Mozart -- I have major reservations about his approach to symphonies 39-41 -- but his Prague remains among my top favourites, closely followed by his Haffner and Linz. I would have placed his Prague on my list -- keeping Mackerras for the Jupiter.
I also have a great affection for Adam Fischer's set of the Mozart symphonies, including the late ones. And I was rather surprised by how much I enjoyed many of Norrington's SWR recordings -- I expected them to be a bit thin and cerebral, and some of them were, but many were richly detailed, fascinating and moving.
As it happens, I probably won't place any period-instrument choices on the top tier of my Mozart symphony favourites list, but that kind of surprises me. It's certainly not because of any problem with period instrument as such; period-instrument recordings *would* make it the top of my Mozart serenade and concerti lists (in all instruments except the flute-and-harp, where I find that period harps underbalanced), as well as my Haydn symphony list and even my Beethoven, Schubert and Schumann lists. But for some reason, not the Mozart symphony list. I was particularly disappointed by Gardiner's recordings -- precisely because I loved his Mozart conducting so much elsewhere (his C minor Mass remains my top favourite, bar none; and I love his conducting in the operas and in most of the piano concerti with Bilson. Yet somehow, I felt he dropped the ball in the symphonies, failing to achieve precisely the type of colourful, expressive drama that he brought out in the recordings I just mentioned. Weird. I'd have said that maybe it's me and not him, except I know that my judgement in this is hardly unique.)
I also join some of the commenters below in singling out Britten's wonderful Mozart recordings, especially nos. 38 and 40.
Agree on the Harnoncourt named symphonies and Britten's glorious ECO outings.
I am ashamed to admit that the only versions of Mozart's Late Symphonies I've ever heard are the set by Bohm and the Berlin Philharmonic. I am eager to explore these recommendations!
Funny - my favorites are many of the same folks just in different order. 35 - Szell/Cleveland (for the immaculate execution, though I think this has an edit instead of a repeat?), 36 - Davis/Staatskapelle (love the accents), 38 - Walter/Columbia (terrific vocal approach to the long lines), 40 - Bruggen/OAE and 41 - Mackerras/SCO (energy and grandeur both, although sometimes I wish he'd omit a repeat). Haven't really settled on a favorite 39 yet. The wild card is Bruggen, I suppose, but I prefer a quick approach with the minor key, makes it feel a bit more uneasy and unsettled. I don't know if that's what Mozart intended, but that's what I enjoy.
I think Mozart intended that you enjoy!
Tough challenge indeed, but I'd choose the followings: #35: Beecham/RPO, #36: Mackerras/Prague CO, #38: Krips/Concertgebouw, #39: Davis/Staatskapelle Dresden, #40: Szell/Cleveland O. and finally the seemingly forgotten, stupendously (I accept that for some even overtly) exhilarating, infectious (I'm out of praising words) Reiner/Chicago SO on unbelievably superb early stereo from mid-50s.
Love Krips’ Beethoven too. Very unrecognized and excellent conductor!
Great video Dave, thanks. With regard to no.39 which Klemperer do you prefer 1962 or 1956?
Take your pick.
Talking about the Walter "Linz," you said it was the best "among his stereo recordings of Mozart," but until that moment I thought you were recommending the earlier mono "Linz," also with Columbia Symphony, as that's the one that has the rehearsal. Just to be sure, which one is it? Thanks.
Both. Either. There's no need to choose.
Here goes:
35: Mackerras/Scottish CO
36: Maag/O of Padua and the Veneto
38: Britten/English CO
39: Végh/Vienna PO (Live 1992)
40: Klemperer/Philharmonia
41: Bernstein/Vienna PO
My choices:
No. 35 - Mackerras/SCO (Linn): Period-style excitement without the hurry.
No. 36 - Böhm/BPO (DG): Böhm's Mozart cycle is often thoughtlessly labelled "old school", but his 35 and 36 are great -- propulsive and rhythmical with clear bass lines. Worth returning to.
No. 38 - Klemperer/PO (EMI, 1956): I never tire of recommending this recording. It is imposingly grand, yet so clearly textured. That woodwind passage work in the first movement is unmatched.
No. 39 - Davis/SKD (Philips/Decca): Much like his Concertgebouw Haydn: not high on trumpets-and-drums excitement, but infused with a geniality that suits this symphony very well.
No. 40 - Szell/CO (Sony): Asparagus without the chocolate sauce. Szell's clear-sighted readings have stood the test of time very well.
No. 41 - Bernstein/VPO (DG): Not my favourite per se, but it doesn't deserve the scorn it receives these days. Bernstein's is a "big band" romantic Mozart, yes, but the counterpoint remains clearly audible and his trumpets and drums hit hard enough. Also, the horns in the finale are unbeatable.
Bonus:
No. 32 - Maag/LSO (Decca): The best recording of this cute little symphony by such a distance that I have to mention it. Pretty stunning sound, too.
Maag is one of my favourite conductors. Underrated, definitely a proper Mozart Conductor of the highest esteem.
I agree with you on Klemperer's No.38 "Prague", but there are two Klemperer recordings with the Philharmonia Orchestra: 1956 and 1962. 1956 has faster tempos and the first movement repeat. I generally prefer it to the 1962 remake, but its a close call. Both recordings are in the 8 CD EMI/Warner Klemperer Mozart box. For a long time the 1956 was only available in mono (see Testament CD), but it is stereo in the 8 CD box, issued in 2013. You really need stereo with Klemperer.
Some great choices there!☺
@John Fowler the 1956 taping is also in stereo in the GROC box with the original album landscape artwork on the cover.
35 Tate
36 Walter
38 Pinnock
39 Harnoncourt
40 Minkowski
41 Brüggen
I have never really warmed up to numbers 36, 38, and 39.
My favorite Mozart symphony is No. 35, the Haffner. The very best no. 35 is with Josef Krips and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra on Chesky. He brings out the Sturm und Drang and the galant elements, just marvelous.
For no. 40, I prefer Nicholas Cleobury and the London Symphony Orchestra on Castle. It's a very exciting, forward moving performance.
For no. 41, I really like Rene Leibowitz and the Royal Philharmonic (on the same disc as the Haffner with Krips, above). Colin Davis and the Staatskapelle Dresden are equally wonderful.
For 36, 38 and 39, Davis is as good as any, but as I said, I don't really like those symphonies as much. For HIP recordings, Pinnock's complete set is excellent, without the astringent string sound of Hogwood's recordings.
But have you heard Gavin Fraser and the Danube SO? I'd never heard of Fraser or the orchestra, but it really is a very colourful version of 40 & 41. Sort of a cross between Mackerras and Vegh.
Sort of...
Hi David, I wonder why you haven’t did the Mozart Requiem review since you did a lot of Mozart and Choral work!
I don’t like the work.
@@DavesClassicalGuide So sad to hear that😂😭 Hope one day you will like it.
@@jerryduan1828 Me too. I will keep on listening.
What's your take on recordings that don't use clarinets in the 40th for the reason of greater "authenticity"? As a clarinetist , I take a dim view of it. I assume Mozart knew what was doing considering divine quality of his clarinet/basset clarinet Concerto and Quintet. So clarinets must be in the 40th. I'm open to a reasoned argument, but I probably still won't agree ;-)
Just for fun, my all period instrument list (or, as some might have it, the "all weak link" list)
35 - Concerto Köln (Capriccio)
36 - Gardiner
38 - Bruggen
39 - Minasi/Ensemble Resonanz
40 - Harnoncourt, VCM
41 - Jacobs
I’m rather partial to Immerseel’s last three symphonies so there’s an addition:)
I have been searching the Muti Mozart recordings for a long time but they are sadly out of print. Perhaps time will bring us an Universal Muti box, as Sony and Warner have done. Any news about It, David (or the other folks)? Australia Eloquence, are you reading this? 😉
Some of the Muti is available on Apple Music,
@@fjblanco , por tu nombre entiendo que hablas mi idioma así que aprovecho para responder en español 🙂
Muchas gracias por el aviso. Como David, soy un coleccionista de la vieja guardia y prefiero el disco físico si lo encontrara, pero a falta de él consultaré la fuente que me indicas.
Un saludo desde Almería (España)
@@josecarmona9168 yo tambien soy de la "vieja guardia" y prefiero el disco fisico... pero en su ausencia me tiro a lo digital. Apple Music ahora tiene disponible grabaciones digitales "lossless," es decir, la misma calidad de sonido a un "compact disc" y tambien "high-resolution lossless" en ciertas grabaciones. Pero si estoy de acuerdo que prefiero el disco fisico.
@@fjblanco , apunto lo que me dices para probarlo. Muchas gracias!!
Well, I state that I'm not a musician (I barely read music) and I'm late, I know. But the little game is cute, so I'll jump in. Two rules: don't repeat a conductor and don't quote those you reported (I can't write Muti, what a shock for my parochialism!). Difficult, also because I don't know all the recordings, but let's try.
1) 35. HAFFNER - Jiri Belohlaveck/Prague Philarmonia. Maybe it's not a very famous version, but it's very beautiful: without excesses, relaxed, but heartfelt and exciting, and all in all modern. I like it.
2) 36 LINZ - Adam Fisher/Danish National Chamber Orchestra: ok, ok, I listened to it thanks to you (all the same, right?). But they are beautiful executions: taut, bright, sparkling and played very well. I know I take them all.
3) 38 - Peter Maag/Orchestra di Padova e del Veneto: I particularly like this one: an ample interpretation, always pleasant, detailed, almost from other times, with an orchestra that plays splendidly (Padova e Veneto, not Wiener Philarmoniker!) It was a real surprise.
4) 39 - John Eliot Gardiner/ English Baroque Soloist: Finally! Ancient musical instruments! I don't particularly like "historically informed performances", but this was my first approach, and Gardiner is not only a philologist: he is a musician of personality. It was strange to hear such a "dry" orchestra, such an extreme idea of music, but this is a good record, and it runs light and pleasant.
5) 40 - Bernstein/Wiener Philarmoniker (this time yes!). How I like Berstein! he always seems to do it for the pure pleasure of making music, for the pleasure of playing and making people play. This record is no exception, and I always listen to it gladly.
6) 41- Arturo Toscanini/ NBC Symphony Orchestra - This is where memory comes into play: Toscanini was my father's most beloved conductor, and his Beethoven symphonies were never lacking in the family. Therefore, it has an added value, a bit like Proust's madeline. But this performance to me is fantastic and seems carved in marble.
Ok, they sure won't be the best, probably there will be many weaknesses, but I hope they are interesting!
41 Szell/Concertgebouw
40 Celibidache/ Munich 94
39 Kertesz/Vienna
38 “Prague” Bruno Walter/ Vienna 1934
36 “Linz” Krips/Concertgebouw 1974
35 “Haffner” Adam Fischer/ Danish National Chamber Orchestra
OK, here's my list. I expect most of us have so many versions of these that we could make several lists that we would like just as well, but here's one:
No. 35: Bohm, BPO
No. 36: Klemperer, Philharmonia
No. 38: Maag, LSO
No. 39: Walter, Columbia SO
No. 40: MacKerras, SCO
No. 41: Szell, Cleveland
As for No. 37, I know most of it is really by Michael Haydn, but Mozart did write the slow introduction. The only versions I have of that are by Marriner (intro only) and Hogwood and Leinsdorf (both intro and the MH parts). They're all OK, but the piece is nothing to seek out except for completists (like me). Good though some of MH's music is, I don't see how anyone could have once thought this was late Mozart.
Dave, doesn't MacKerras repeat the whole development and recap in mvt 1 of 38? How do you feel about that? Isn't it rare?
It is rare but correct for all Mozart symphony first movements. I have no opinion about it. It depends on the performance. Repeats are usually optional.
At the risk of being a bit of an iconoclast in this company, a slightly more HIP-y oriented list. Maybe because I grew up with period instruments and style, but most 'modern' performances are just to saturated, heavy and soft-edged for my taste:
no. 35: Mackerras/SCO
no. 36: Kleiber/VPO (technically only appeared on video/dvd. The trio alone is worth the price of the disc)
no. 38: Jacobs/Freiburger Barockorchester
no. 39: Brüggen/Orchestra of the 18th Century (the remake)
no. 40: Rattle/BPO
no. 41: Harnoncourt/Concentus Musicus Wien
Also, If one is allowed to make one or two suggestions: I would love to hear DH's thoughts on the Pierre Monte Decca Box, Haitinks 'The Philips Years' or Abbado's Sony and RCA box (to complete the Abbado big box survey)
Even if they are no longer available? It's an annoying problem...
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hmm, fair enough, though at least one of them is still available according my record store in Belgium. And I guess with these big boxes at any given point at least a sizable part of the content is going to be available in some format or another.
@@eliasvandyck8829 We can only hope. I realize that with these videos I am creating a more or less permanent record, but I also try to keep in mind how frustrating it is, at least initially, to talk about recordings that no one can source. What a joke this industry has become!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Of course, no worries
No.35 Suitner Dresden Staatskapelle
No.36 Bernstein Vienna PO
No.38 Any performance will do because I don’t care about this symphony much
No.39 Davis Dresden Staatskapelle
No.40 Karajan Berlin PO (EMI) with clarinets
Bohm Perlin Phil without clarinets
No.41 Ormandy Philadelphia Orchestra
By the way, the first great symphony Mozart wrote was No.29.
Yay Szell!
Regret to say that IMO most of Muti's Mozart achieves the singular distinction of driving the music to noise while barely being able to hear anything but the strings.
35: Maag/Padova e del Veneto
36: Mackerras/Scotland
38: Harnoncourt/CMW
39: Bernsten/Vienna
40: Davis/Dresden
41: Fischer/Danish Chamber
ha ha agree with you there - Muti is the last place I go for Mozart
The famous artist thing is surely your jest with us, rather than a true anecdote. I hope!
Sorry,, very true.
I think I'm that Viennese lady. I looove teenage Mozart symphonies (when they are well played). I also love that she tried to bicker over Mozart's national importance with some random New Yorkers.
And Nutmegers.
that didn't merit a slap in the face though - she made a harmless enough comment.
Something that fascinates me is the extent to which Mozart didn't find the symphony to be a congenial genre for his gifts. The only of his symphonies to meet his usual high standard are 25. 29, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40 and 41. Of course, No. 40 ended up having a huge influence on Beethoven, Schubert, etc.
Although I'll confess that every time I hear those whole note suspensions in the opening of No. 1, my eyes get a bit misty; despite the fact that the writing is simple and embryonic, that 8 year-old had already found a distinctive compositional voice.
Well, he wasn't asked to write many, and he was only 35 when he died. He had no reason or excuse to do more.
there was an HMV on 5th in the… 40s? and another on 86th and Lex… but i don’t remember one 72nd?
That's right--86th. Got 'em mixed up. Thanks.
@@DavesClassicalGuide that basement was a goldmine for discounts… also the union square virgin records basement… woof
And Mozart wasn't even of Austrian origin. Salzburg wasn't annexed to Austria until 1805.
I've always liked the Josef Krips. Oversized , as was the custom at the time, but the feeling is light and airy. Truth be told, I don't listen to the Symphonies, much. Just heard them too oven, and don't get the craving. When I'm in a Mozart mood its usually a piano concerto I turn to. Mozart all sounds the same, right? Delightful but the same.
35 Bernstein
36 Jochum
38 Klemperer
39 Colin Davis
40 Britten
41 Barenboim
“……and always too soooooooon.”
It had to happen.
It's true Mozart didn't himself name his 41th Jupiter. Mozart was very well known for his often dirty and scatological humor. So, he called his 41th: Uranus. Mozart's friends though it was a bit too crude so, after he died, they changed the name to Jupiter.
My problem with many (but not all) of the not period instrument Mozart is that it sounds like a child toy compared to other pieces played by modern orchestras. When I hear Mozart played by period instrument orchestras, it sounds like the composer fully utilizes the forces of this orchestra. Just like Mahler or Strauss fully utilizes modern orchestra. I feel the same even more for the modern piano sound for Mozart's sonatas. It usually sounds like a toy. When a good artist plays it on fortepiano, I can feel that Mozart completely used the possibilities of that instrument.
When I started listening to classical music (20-21 years ago) I found Mozart's music simply boring and childish. I rarely listened to his music. (I started with romantic music just like almost everybody else :-) I knew nothing about period instrument orchestras back then. It changed when I get to know period instrument orchestras (and when I get to know Mozart's operas). Mozart become my absolute favorite composer 9-10 years ago. I like music of almost all great composer but Mozart smoehow special for me. My view slightly changed in the past years and now I acknowledge modern instrument performances also if these are great (and Mr. Hurwitz suggests only the greatests :-). But I still like period instrument recordings very much if these are great also (for me :-).
As for the suggestions. I don't have list but one of my favorite modern instrument Mozart disc is the BMC CD with Zoltán Kocsis and Hungarian National PO. It contains one of the greatest "little" and "great" g minor Sympony I think.
Haffner: Jozef Krips Isreal Phil, London Frr Linz Theodor Guschlbauer Bamberg players MHS. 39 E FLAT agree Otto Klemperer the Angel record Jupiter Hartmut Haenchen CPE BACH players G minor Karl Bőhm DG, Prague Bernard Haitink chamber orchestra of Europe
Yes, I can do this.
35 Schuricht Wien DECCA
36 Walter Columbia SONY I prefer mono version
38 Beecham London EMI sorry, poor sound
39 Krips Concertgebouw Philips
40 Szell Cleveland SONY
41 Jochum Boston DG
Suitner Dresden is missing. Hmm…
Yes, i was thinking about adding Suitner to my list.
For 38, try Beecham/RPO (live from 1958) on the BBC label...Better sound and far more lively.
@@markfarrington5183 Thanks. I'll get it.
Et dire que Mozart, de son vivant, n'aura jamais pu faire exécuter ses 3 dernières symphonies!
That is very unlikely, as I said. We just don't know when he heard them, but there's little doubt that he did hear them.
What's with the left earmuff?
Hitler. Hahaha. That was brutal.
Yikes, The Hitler comment must have went over like a fart in a crowded elevator!
@@clavessin12 it was a crass cruel insult on her - unjustified. Looks like this guy lets his mouth flap without thinking what he is saying