Why the “born this way” argument doesn't advance LGBT equality | Dr. Lisa Diamond | TEDxSaltLakeCity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- "Lady Gaga has said it. The Pope has said it. But are people really born gay? Lisa Diamond, a professor of psychology and gender studies, deconstructs the ""born this way"" argument and shows why it doesn't advance LGBT equality.
About the speaker:
Lisa Diamond is an author and professor of psychology and gender studies at the University of Utah. Lisa Diamond is Professor of Psychology and Gender Studies at the University of Utah. She studies the expression of sexual attractions and sexual identity over the lifetime, and the influences of early life experiences on later sexual development. Dr. Diamond is known for her research on sexual fluidity, which describes the capacity for individuals to experience shifts in their pattern of same-sex and other-sex attractions over time. Dr. Diamond is co-editor of the APA Handbook of Sexuality and Psychology and is a fellow of two divisions of the APA. Dr. Diamond has published over 100 articles and book chapters, and has been invited to present her research all over the world. She has received awards from the Developmental Psychology and LGBT Psychology Divisions of the APA, the American Association of University Women, the International Association for Relationship Research, the Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, and the Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
To recall what Princess Bubblegum said:
"People get built different. We don't need to figure it out, we just need to respect it."
YESSSASS
Yes
That makes even me more tolerant.
Most people are influenced by prevailing culture. There a view show me your 5 closest friends and I will show you your future. Everyone is given a free will use it wisely however you were born. Respect all people regardless whether you agree with them or not. Dignity decorum and respect is what society needs
That’s what I say “if a man is aroused by your 5 year olds presence” just let him be, he can’t control how he feels.... and for your friend that is a kleptomaniac, show him “respect” when he steals your items, because we should “respect” somebody regardless of what makes them tick.... notice, I didn’t call you any names while Annihilating your statement?
She looks like the kind of teacher that would tell you to believe in yourself and stand up for you when other teachers put you down
aka what I need in my life
I laughed. So true !
Actual Pancake Even the way she speaks!
Yes!
Actual Pancake hahahahhaa
Imagine being named "Dr. Diamond", that is unironically so dope. I love it
Sounds like a comic villain name to me 😂
‘Double D for short’ love it
I saw a Dr called Dr Love once. That was cool. And a Dr Lazarus. He was sick of the jokes.
Yeah, she’s a badass
“Unironically”, “unironically,” you sound like such a dork
I'm not gonna lie, it took me to the end of the video to really grasp what she was saying, but when i did, i loved it. this idea of 'whether we were born this way or not, it shouldn't matter because regardless we deserve to be treated as respected people'
edit: some of u bring good points i never thought of; this is why respectful discussion is so important. since this comment blew up all i ask is that u keep it polite people.
In the 60s and 70s males with long hair were mistreated.
Amen.
Michele McDaniel
Growing ones hair and denying biological fact are two completely different reasons.....
Well you don't need 14 min to explain that lol
Why
why is no one talking about those GUNS?!😍
💀💀💀
Oh my god, I know!!!!
Guns!!!
Facts
Call up the NRA
The volume is horrible.
In fact I am writing this comment while watching this video and the sound of my keypad is much louder.
U can turn it up
@@drewlmao The volume is just hella low
Oh thank god it’s not just me. I thought it was just my hearing going bad using my headphones all day.
Thank god it doesn’t have ads in the middle of it, that was my only worry watching this since I have to turn my volume way up to make it sound normal.
😂😂😂
You know bi erasure is a thing when you are so surprised and start to get emotional when mentions us
@S K its worse for some then it is others
Cry about it.
Bohooo
@S K just because you're also bi doesn't mean OP's wrong lol
@@valerieblackwell5765 So true
"What am I supposed to tell them? That I'm this way .... because reasons???"
"No. Not even because reasons. *Just because **_you are._* "
- Natalie Wynn
Priscilla Espiritu I love her and I love you
I love Natalie Wynn
Priscilla Espiritu Ms. Wynn is absolutely a Queen. If I had to stan anyone (which I generally would not do on principal), I would stan her
Love heeeeeeer.
""What am I supposed to tell them? That I'm this way .... because reasons???"
"No. Not even because reasons. Just because you are. "
- Natalie Wynn"
Also know as.. Born this way.
So glad she explained the part about bisexuality, honestly sometimes it makes some of us wonder why include a b in lgbt+ when we are dismisses or belittled.
Flux it for me, it’s always been difficult to support the lot of the virtue signaling hypocrites that discriminate so strongly against or at least turn a blind eye to the experience of bi people.
They catch flack for the rest of the alphabet (except the trans folks) and the Cis people, too. Men get of the worst in this case. Lots of women flatly refuse to entertain the idea of dating Bi dudes. And very few men seem willing to accept any Bi tendencies until they are in committed relationship with a woman; And that’s only if the women would accept him. The closet Bi enclave is really put upon by all sides.
For real. It's one of the many infuriating things about Twitter for me.
Flux it Especially when we’re dismissed in favor of sexualities which are similar- if not identical to bisexuality itself...
Did you forget about how the lgb is always trying to get rid of the T because we're "different". Oh but you're belittled, sounds like it really sucks. I'm guessing you're not up to date with trans issues, especially in the south. So maybe think before you post next time pal.
@@jules4631 that's like saying to someone who's dad just died 'you don't know real pain until BOTH of you parents died like mine'. Pain doesn't cancel out pain bro
I’m sorry but she looks like a female Rick from Rick and Morty😂
Dr.Pbutters lol ricks wife 🤣🤣
That i s Rick
Dr.Pbutters
I tried to stay serious while watching this and that got ruined. Lmao
no her name is Lisa and her hair is literally Lisa simpson's
Yeah except she’s ripped af
First thing she says: True or false?
audience: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
Did i miss a joke or something??
I think the person before her said it a lot
so... our sexualities are fluid, but it's not like we can control the fluidity. we don't choose our attractions, which makes discrimination based on it all the more nonsensical, especially because they can fluctuate over time.
Spot on
Not necessarily. Initial attraction no but you do have some control. You can open yourself up to someone that you were not initially attracted too.
Basically preference. Does your favorite color remain your favorite color for the rest of your life?
So you're born this way.
TBH, the discrimination wokd be bad even if that fluidity was 100% under our control. Who cares who you have relationships with, if it does not harm society at large?
I don't mean to offend in any way but she reminds me of olivia octavius from into the spider-verse
I knowwwww
I know! The slightly Mad Scientist hair, the nerdy glasses!!
but u rite though
Um, professor Trelawney, anyone?
I can totally see that....
she finally pinpoints why I've always felt religious folks claiming "They were born that way, we can't change them, we just need to pray for them" is such an uncomfortable comment.
stripeanderson I am religious and I have NEVER said that they are born that way or they can’t be changed. I haven’t heard it from anyone else either. It depends on who you talk to.
@@alishameyer3868 Hey you do you, it just seems like an argument a lot of people latch on too.
Even more so when they don't know much about LGBTQIA+ people or research, or had negative/uncertain stance on the topic
Alisha Coughran i agree...it’s usually the opposite.
Stipeanderson religious folk actually say the opposite. Your comment is not truthful
DNA may prove it one way or the other. What about AIDS?
im sorry but am I the only one who can't stop staring at her arms??
Me too. I was like you go, lady
Jasmine Downey honestly if I had arms like that I’d be showing them all the freaken time!
tbh i took her more seriously because of the arms. it shows she takes care of herself imo. most people who look her age are morbidly obese.
I couldn't stop either between the arms and the hair xD
Nah, but she has nice arms though.
I did not think I was going to like this. I'm glad I was wrong.
Same here
Me too. :)
I didn't think I was going to like this and I'm genuinely disappointed that I was right. I wanted to be proven wrong.
@@taylorbritt499 and why don't you like it?
Same here!!
Why is the audio on this video so ridiculously low? I had to double the the level on my tv
not on mine
It's happening here too. At first I thought it was my headphones (they're very cheap), but then I tested the audio in another video and it played perfectly.
i knew it wasn’t just me !
i thought it was just me coz i shifted from loud ph call to this .
HurrayTsk ME TOO MAN ME TOO
I don’t get why people are mad at her, everything she says is perfectly plausible and in no way malicious
Lucas S. Who’s mad?
I haven’t even seen these comments. I actually thought I was the only one who disagreed. And I wasn’t mad. Her logic seemed faulty is all.
Only it's not a "LOGIC", she did her years of research... I don't know when Opinion began to trump Research, cos that seems to be the trend these days...
@@butterflyeffect1036 If it's not "a 'LOGIC'" then that means it's not logical. If it's not logical then she didn't do her research or she didn't do it properly. Because research is a logical process that requires logic to reach a logical conclusion. I don't know what you think logic was supposed to be. But all I'm saying is that most of what she concluded in this talk, I disagree with and am not convinced are factually correct.
"I don't know when Opinion began to trump Research" I don't know what you mean by that or what Trump has to do with anything. But in order for me to have an opposing opinion, there has to be an opinion for me to oppose. Which are the opinions presented in the video. Another reason I don't agree with all of what she said. Because some of them are just opinions.
Axxidous yeah I think we’re just gonna ignore you lmao
Lady Gaga: *writes a few lyrics*
Lisa Diamond: i'm gonna end this woman whole career
UAHHHAHAHA
I stand by lady gaga as she is an advocate for diversity, inclusivity, and lgbtq+. The song Born this Way is a bop and she is an icon
@@animecookies8784 What's there to stand for 💀💀 no one's attacking her
😂
Volume too LOW!!!
I honestly thought my headphones were breaking
Try captions
🖒🖒🖒🖒👍
Same here, even with headphones!
Turn it up hehehe
the fact that you have a gene doesn’t mean it’s going to be expressed. that’s what recessive genes are all about. also, your gene expression can shift over time, like hair color or taste buds.
Epigenetics imo
malko heres wtf
malko heres nah dude I think you’re just biphobic
Hm, so that's why I loved melted cheese on toast when I was a kid but I think it's boring now. Thank you for enlightening me.
hmmm its like she's saying its irrelevant of how your born but in the way you are expressed and part 2- showing respect and common decency to those expressions with critical thought.
I see more comments complaining about criticism then actual criticism;_;
It's almost as though people are looking for things to be upset about and when they can't find them they make it up so they can either be the victim and receive sympathy or virtue signal by giving sympathy to nonexistent victims.
Thats the lbtq
Welcome to TH-cam! I often find myself in videos seeing complaints about complaints, getting curious, then wasting hours futily searching for the complaints. It's frustrating! I have a complaint!
They obviously got drowned out by the people defending.... it’s really that easy to see...
@@SafetyLucas Yep!
i just wanted to listen to the lady with the cool hair and now everyone is screaming in the comments
Hahahahaha
I have one problem with this idea, many lgbt people if not most, are actually consistent in they're orientation, and when they come out it's often dismissed as a 'phase' so how are people supposed to fight that idea, without invoking the 'born this way' argument?
Just say it’s exactly the same just a different side of the scale
Genetic circuits are non-deterministic (they are stochastic), so, although some traits may be determined genetically, they might not be expressed the same between identical twins. Because although they have the same genes, some genes may be turned ON for one twin and OFF for the other.
Also identical twins have different finger prints. Genes don't determine the outcome all the time
I'm very curious why there is no real intellectual or scientific curiosity around this issue. Well I know why actually.
I want to marry my dog and son and sister all at once. Who are you to judge?
By "do whatever you want" we've opened a Pandora's box . What is morality and the right way of doing anything. No rules means we are equal to animals following our carnal desires.
@@M_D_13 yes, and that is a problem, but following rules that hurt some people is not the solution either, that's why we have to come up with new moral rules.
@@M_D_13 If that is an argument you came up with, I am scared to even pick your brain. You must be the most deviant immoral monster without your rule book. Don't tell me what goes on in that head of yours!
Identical twin studies are underrated, and underfunded in my opinion.
PigIron BigIron ask me a question. I’m a twin
@@rhodesohlerking7462 have you tried the 23 and me to test accuracy, and is there food preferences that don't match up??
PigIron BigIron no. But he loves chipotle and I hate it. Also he likes spicy food and I don’t. I like ice cream he doesn’t. I like bacon he doesn’t. He likes milk I do not. That’s about it.
@@rhodesohlerking7462 what about preferences in mates? Are you both into the same body and behavior types? Also, is there differences in things you can't stand like spider's and killer clowns?
PigIron BigIron we are both males and are straight.
Thank you for defending bisexuals/pansexuals 💙💜💗
BI PRIDE STAND UP!
Pansexual doesn't make sense. There are only two sexes. If anyone discovers another one, let me know. 😉
Henrik Vaula Rasmussen what about intersex people? 😉
BI SQUAD, ASSEMBLE!
@@plasticfrog4533 *sigh* props to you for not being tired already for answering such a question that was asked way too often in the last years by people who don't even try to seriously inform themself. and @Henrik try google on what pansexual actually means
Wow, I have never seen so many comments misunderstanding what someone's said lol.
Pvrple Heart I have always thought this way. It’s presumptuous to say people are born that way.
Thats just the human nature, nothing new sweetie :/
@@dantan1249 The problem is to say that ALL people are, not that it exists people wo actually are
it's because 'born this way' is apologetic at its worst... why apologize for being lgbtqi when straight people don't apologize about their gender either? be yourself and be proud of your gender... don't apologize!
She seemed like she was just saying bi people exist too this whole time. I feel like I've wasted my time watching a video on something I already knew
No it isn't. It's a song of who I am and not what society wants me to be. The song isnt only about lgbt+. It's about diversity, inclusivity, AND lgbt+.
Please edit ur comment
Or is it a counter argument to the " choice" argument that subconciously justifies peoples contempt and hatred through subjective comparison?
Yeah. I didn’t really feel my bisexuality until I was 17.
I couldn’t relate to people who said they knew from early childhood.
I think that’s an interesting way of thinking about it.
Same here
Same
I came out like last year and I’m 21. I never even realised I liked the same gender until I was like 20.
@@rinthelemon5689 I was 26. Before that, I had no idea. I still can't understand how that could have happened, but it did.
So you never liked women?
I didn’t know how this was going to go but I was pleasantly surprised that I literally had the same opinion as her and didn’t even know it 😂
I’m seeing a TON of people defending the ted talk against people in the comment section who misunderstood her point...but I’ve yet to see someone actually disagree with her or be rude. How far down are those comments?
In the replies and "sort by new", mostly
Mostly in the replies. It's your usual terfs(who are angry she included trans people), and crazy religious homophobes. Nothing to see here.
@@KattReen I'm trans and disagree with her on some of her conclusions😶
@DarkyInside and I see nothing wrong with that. it's just that for me, gender is purely biological so I view it as the mind in dissonance with body. I'm not "just born that way" I was born this way and now go through procedures to help myself live the life my mind think is correct. To me, by taking away that I was "born this way", would mean that I was made wrong for not being able to live as a man and that a gender change is purely to satisfy myself, instead of being about living in harmony as I was meant to be, but biology screwed up. Again, this is objective, but it's not as easy as she portrays it for me.
@@thehatmaniac6958 Well her argument is that even if you did realize very early on that you're trans, people should accept you regardless - even if you weren't "born this way".
Otherwise, "born this way" hurts people who come out later in life or realize they're non-binary after transitioning.
I love her use of “can be fluid”!that matters cause it shows possibility instead of saying “it is fluid” and stating it as some universal unchanging fact.
"true or false"
Audience slapping their knees: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHAHAGAH 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
lol yeah I was like wut c'mon guys I appreciate your enthusiasm but she didn't even say anything funny
I normally don't like this argument. but she made it so well and presented it in a respectful way that increases respect. Now only if we lived in a respectful society.
Its a difficult line to walk because there are still a lot of hateful people who will look for any way to weaponize arguments.
for this argument to work, outside of communities that respect human autonomy we need to actually make human autonomy our strongest argument and highest value.
I’m so glad someone’s talking about this. She’s an amazing speaker!!!
This was a good talk. Maybe because of time limits she did not speak about these aspects:
Homophobia and the "pressure" to pick a team to play for
Coming out even if only to yourself can be daunting for some people.
If you do come out then what are you coming out as? In the LGBT...world there is a lot of pressure to pick a team and stick with it. Never mind if you are not 100 percent certain how your river runs.
I totally get "late bloomer" LG folk and people who were very L or G and learning over the years they are far more B than they ever thought or imagined.
FWIW I am lifelong G and I don't see that changing and who knows.
One thing she’s not is an amazing speaker. The argument is lost by the fact that she doesn’t say once the title of the song she’s using to present her arguments properly. A pity.
@@alexd1121 mao are you a lady gaga stan
Born this Way actually has advanced LGBT equality...
If our sexualities are fluid and we can’t control it changing then there’s more proof that we can’t choose.
people who keep commenting about her topic and didn’t listen to her ted talk are clowns
I am extremely dissapointed in the comment section, she brings good logic, and they focus on her appeareance, sure I noticed the nice arms (wish mine were as well-defined as hers) but the message and enthusiasm are great!
It doesnt bother me for anyone to say they're born that way, and I don't think it's wrong for them to. But she makes a good point and shes clearly an ally (or member) of the lgbt that's the most important. It's all about acceptance.
Nemitri Unfortunately there could be a whole Ted experiment on the internet’s lazy obsession with the visual. Five different speakers all possessing a trait normally deemed highly attractive. Each speaker talks about basically the same concept with one vital difference. Collate large segment of comments. Report back. Make statement vid on commenter shallowness with proof.
WHAAAAAAA? ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT PEOPLE CHANGE?
A lot of psychologist would argue that you cannot change your core self after 6 years of age.
@@AlvaroALorite at a lot of others would argue that there is no such a thing as a "core self"...
@@cosmodradek deep
@@jaykun182 it is way shallower than you think
Álvaro A. Lorite I think that’s ridiculous. Trauma can change people has a whole.
i feel like she works on her arms for this particular reason
I personally didnt take the "Born This Way" thing so deeply and literal. More like a metaphor and a statement relating to pride.
But if we gonna discuss more profoundly, i don't stan essentialism, philosophically.
She reminds me of professor Trelawney from Harry Potter
It's pretty sad that most of the comments are still about the look of that woman rather than what she's talking about 😒
That’s what one does when the content is not understood.
I dont’t agree with her idea that people would only refer to “born this way” as a way of admitting fault. People are “born this way” with many characteristics that aren’t thought of as “bad” things... they’re just characteristics.
It wasn’t her saying ‘admitting fault’ as much as how other people see it as a fault. ‘Just characteristics’ well isn’t being dark skinned just a characteristic? But in early America it was completely different, it was genetic inferiority (according to the whites.) I believe her point is that with the ‘born this way’ argument, it’s just suppose to make people who wanted LGBTQ people converted or killed in the past (and in other places of the current world) understand that they can’t change the way they are and it’s not their fault they’re like that, so the government could put legal restrictions on discrimination like that, because it isn’t right to kill people for the way they were born, and something they can’t change. It’s an argument for legal purposes.
i think she doesn’t mean that we say we are born this way as a way to admit our fault but that lurking beneath this narrative is fault-admitting it’s not done intentionally.
DannyDaDuffyDucking Daffer but I think you’re missing the point. With the anti gays saying the gays were choosing sin and should be punished, the gays said ‘we can’t help it we were born this way, you can’t punish us for something we didn’t do.’
Stream "Born this way" by Lady Godga
Pikachu that*
@@hectorpacheco5154 lol
Pikachu who?
Yassss
perry
It’s Born This Way ma’am if your gonna quote Gaga get it right
J Westwood um that’s what the title says?
@@mangot589 In the video she called the song "Born that way", so that's probably what she means
Songbird Ahh. Thanks!
When she is speaking on such platform where thousand of people are watching anyone can make a spelling mistake.
so her point is "you weren't born this way, you developed this way."
I really think thats what it boils down to, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Kinda, it sounded like "You have an innate bias that enviromental factors build upon to make you who you are"
Yes. Basically nurture rather than nature
I think the point she’s making is: it doesn’t matter how you got there, but you got there. Treat people with respect and don’t judge.
Dave O’Dell , that's ok politically, but not accurate scientifically. She just (mis)uses science to prove her point.
She looks like a crazy scientist from a cartoon
Nathalie B BYEEEEEE
Remindes me of Cioccolata from JJBA
Or a english/art teacher
"Born this way" is an argument custom-built for a society with conformity as its highest value. Lisa Diamond mentions in this talk that this argument came about in the 60s and 70s and was crafted (reactively) for that timeframe and its values.
For young people today especially I don't think they see it this way as much. I think they don't see conformity as especially valuable to begin with, for one thing.
Lady Gaga is her song is not even 20
Years old, so yuh was
All young people do is conform..they are carbon cutouts of these radical types they think they are creating. But none of them have identities beyond their phones and tiktok lol
Time stamp 9:01 for others to know.
@@mwoz14222 Some of them yes, but others no.
@@mwoz14222 it's actually very sad and worrisome
She looks like olivia octavius from into the spider-verse.
Dr Diamond sounds like a super villain name too.
I like when she opens her arms because of the gun show 😍
For real tho. Damn.
You must be deranged. her arms are small and thin well defined but not overly so
Michele McDaniel she’s petite but she has such great muscle 😍😍
Yes but what did you think of the discussion? Or did your thirst drive you here?
Firegen1 multitasked
This talk has made me feel validated. What Dr Diamond said simply reflects not only my opinion on this matter, but also my own experience. THANK YOU, Dr Diamond!! 🥰
"Born this way" is just a shorter way of saying "I can't do anything about it". Yes it's simplified but it was used to counter the claim that you choose this. You have to look at it from the context of people telling you to just be normal. The scientific details are not that relevant when someone says to you you need to change something you know you cannot change.
Just reading the comment section made me sure of my choice to cut-off every pious people from my life the moment they started talking about how they're right and other people who doesn't share their belief is a demon or something. It's just not healthy and definitely not helping anyone involved.
Preach!!
I kinda wonder if you're referring to people who disagreed with the speaker or people who started talking smack to other commenters for disagreeing. I mean I guess it could be both since some people disagree the right way and some disagree the wrong way, regardless of their point.
Amen
So true.
Here's a lesson my mother taught me about the world that ALL LGBT people should know (I'm LGBT too):
When I was 15, as a young and wide-eyed Asian kid, I stumbled across the United Nations Convention for the Rights of the Child, and I was ecstatic. In it, the convention states that every child has a RIGHT to food and shelter, even though my mother had on many occasions denied me food and shelter whenever I misbehaved (i.e. refusing to give me food or money to buy food, or kicking me out of the house as punishment).
I brought this up with her, confident that I can change her mind because somewhere out there, a bunch of enlightened individuals believe that children also had rights and that they DESERVED better. My mother, a lower-middle-income hard-nosed parent, laughed in my face and said, "you can decide what you think you deserve when you can make your own money." And that night, I had no dinner, and I was locked outside the house.
My mother was cruel, but she was right.
You can't talk about human rights, or whatever you think you deserve, when you DON'T HAVE POWER. You may live among kindred souls who chose to be kind to you, but you'd be gravely mistaken to take that for granted. For the world is not benign... there will always be people out there eager to destroy and take you apart if you let them, and those whom you lean on for charity can one day decide to STOP giving. And only when all your friends have betrayed you (and they will one day) will you realise that you are nothing without POWER.
When I talk about power, I'm not talking about power over other people, I'm talking about power you have over yourself. Those who are constantly overpowered by their own passions cannot achieve greatness. The greatest power one can have is the power to control one's own fate. And you EARN that power by first controlling your emotions. With your emotions under control, you then control your actions. And with your actions under control, you can then shape your own destiny, one - excruciating - inch at a time.
The whole 'we are born that way' argument is very disempowering! We are essentially trying to appeal to other people's good side when not all of them have a good side! And it doesn't matter what you get from others by using that tired argument, because even if it grants you heaven and earth, you are still down on bended knees, and there is no dignity in that.
LGBT people, above all, should seek power and not entitlement. Even if you have to fight harder than everyone else, then so be it. You will surpass yourself one day, and even surpass all your critics. Let those who once hated you fear you, be envious of you, or god forbid, be respectful of you because you are powerful. You can't force them to change their minds but you can force them to look at you when you have power.
Be grateful to every ounce of charity you receive, but always maintain your power to ensure nobody can mess with you. And this is by far the most dignified way to live that I know of.
And I owe all of that to my dear mother, whom I kicked out of my house not too long ago.
That 'they are born that way' argument is not disempowering.
It just forces people to just accept or tolerate LGB peoples or not.
This comment is so well written and insightful. Thank you so much.
Full circle
@@meowcules 😂👏
I agree that you should always try to rely on your own ability as much as possible and not be dependent on the mercy of others. However, this power will not necessarily mean you'd thrive in a society that's otherwise dismissive of lgbt's. However much power you have individually, the police can still get you arrested if the law is against you (unless you're in the 1% powerful people, maybe). And as a group, it'd be extremely hard for such a small, hated community in for instance the 50's, to gain power without the help of straight people, to change laws.
Also, the idea that all your friends will eventually betray you is not only false, but destructive for your own relationship with the world around you. Sure, it's ok to be vigilant, not everyone is to be trusted. Sometimes it's better to trust someone anyway, even when you risk getting hurt. Just be careful of who you give your trust. As someone who's had a strong, loving family, I know how important it is to have someone to trust and love. Hope the wounds inflicted by your mother will heal enough for you to have trust in some worthy individuals again.
She’s right. People who are criticizing her need to learn how to interpret-ate a message.
She goes against scientific consensus... if she cant take criticism then whats the point.
hej hej there is VERY rarely a scientific consensus on anything. Also I’d like to see quite a few studies for that claim.
hej hej uk’o buddy
Shut up! You have no right to talk about gays
@@otaviosantos8916 It's not me who's doing the talking lol
TL;DR version: *bisexuals exist.*
Amen.
Honey don't you misquote the queen Gaga like that
She just did snowflake
Yup, its Born THIS Way ... but she keeps saying Born THAT Way ... Lol
Shes no queen
I was like same 😂😂
Like *this 😂
the argument is not “born that way” but “affection is not controllable”, right?
Well at least it should be
@Irish O'African That's divorce and marrige being controllable, not affection.
Affection can change, but you can't change it. You can choose to act upon affection, but that isn't the same as having/not having affection. There's plenty of people who have crushes who haven't approached the girl they like, that doesn't mean they're aesexual.
Pretty much! That's the ideology that we need to work to shift toward as a society, honestly.
So its not predetermined but its also not changeable. Sorry, you cant have it both ways. Putting aside the morality of trying to "convert" someone, if that were possible, surely some people would take the conversion for societal reasons. If conversion is not possible then either there must be an underlying predetermination, or genetic programming, that prevents it OR we just havent found the right way to do it. Imo, much more unbiased research is needed.
Probably a common virus in the environment which causes some brain damage.
@@crossroads670 bruh i feel like i will be called a horrible person who deserved to die for finding your comment funny
Jesus, I would never think about this issue using this perspective, thank you
Issue?
@@danielfelix4790 sorry if I used the wrong term, what I wanted to say is that I never thought that the argument born this way could've been related to so many social problems. Sorry if I didn't express it very well, english is not my first language.
@@danielfelix4790 WHAT DO YOU MEAN "YOU PEOPLE"?
I don't agree with her. No drama. I just have a different point of view.
Hey, I’ve seen a lot of arguments on the comment section for it. Could you explain further why you disagree with her?
Her argument ignores the concept of the Kinsey scale. Where one is on the Kinsey scale is likely where one is born. Most people are therefore born in the middle. Perhaps what she should be debating is rephrasing “born that way” to the more appropriate that same gender attraction is “natural” which I believe is what was really meant by born that way.
If they were “ born that way” then why call it a preference? How many people didn’t need to listen to this to come to the same conclusion?
the puppeteer That’s like discriminating against autistic people for their conditions. Even if it was a disability, why treat us like muck. I have a high functioning brain like you. There’s nothing unique about your brain. You’re calling us “not rational,” other way around buddy. You wrote a paragraph dehumanizing people for something interchangeable. You sir, are the most irrational person I’ve seen on threads.
the puppeteer get owned
@@ari.2406 he who is without sin cast the first stone
you should listen. She will surprise you. trust me, she doesn't say what you think she is saying.
@@robertrabbit7809 you must have 💩 for brains... according to that logic we shouldn't even have a justice system.
Wow, this completely changed my mind. I went in really sceptical that it was a bad argument but I completely agree.
Why? I found this video did more harm than good.
I'm not LGB but I know people who are and I would prefer if their movement wasn't hijacked by hippies with nonsensical ideas.
What did she say that convinced you?
@@Jurassicparkatmospheres What harm?
@@Jurassicparkatmospheres
Well I am lgbt, not that that should matter to the conversation. Well if the science and legal aspects are true then they're true. But what really spoke to me was that she's right. This isn't something wrong about me that people, including me, should accept. There shouldn't be anything to accept in the first place. I've always treated this part of me as something unfortunate. Like having dyslexia or something. Something no one should treat me badly for, but something I wish I didn't have nonetheless. But that's wrong. Me being like this isn't wrong. And saying I was born this way as a defencive argument does necessitate that this is wrong or tragic. But it's not.
@@cdavid2200 its a good defensive tool and its a fact. Of course its sad that the defense is needed but its a shame to throw it away. Afaik the scientific consensus is that its not a choice and even if its used as a defense it doesnt mean that its something negative. As you say that feeling comes from the fact that you have to defend yourself at all, and not the defending statement.
I mean consider the same examples of people she talked about in her speech (the parents for example). They want it to be a choice so they can force their child to be straight. Imo listening to this speech could have disasterous consequenses.
Thats my 2c anyways
Everyone complaining about the volume: there are captions
Everyone is complaining about the volume because it's too low. Might as well have the video muted then, if you're going to use captions.
thanks!
trying to listen to this at work... what's your next genius solution?
The captions aren't loud enough
Yea but I can't read
I'm so happy about how she perfectly explained why the born this way argument is harmful to bisexuals, as we are seen as being able to have a "choice" in our attraction
And the parents' requirement, patently unfair, is that you're only supposed to act on one kind of attraction.
I don't understand the comment section. Pls someone tell me what people are arguing about? She says lgbt people aren't born that way. But it doesn't mean it's a choice. It can be a choice too, but it's not a wrong choice. i think she's saying that our feelings can grow in its own way, naturally , and it can be fluid sometimes.
Elio Randunuge what about spirituality like demons people act like demons doesn’t exist when they do
@@DanielGarcia-yq8dz It isn't everyone's belief that demons do exist. The existence of demons are mainly personal beliefs rather than proven facts.
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
R u rlly quoting the Bible I thought this was supposed to be scientific
Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Ok so twin studies are done based on genetic studies while neglecting epigenetics. Technically there is no such thing as an identical set of twins, even if they were monozygotic and monochorionic, are not identical unless their epigenetics are identical as well as their chromosomes and genes. So her argument is based on a flawed platform.
That's not the point of twin studies. They're not saying these twins are 100% identical; in fact they rely on the fact that they aren't. The point is that if the twins exhibit the same trait at higher than the rate of the general population, there is a genetic link. Epigenetics is why that rate isn't 100%, it's lower, in this case 30-40%. But in the general population it's 4-6%, so the twins show a gene exists/ is having some influence.
I know I am born this way...just like you don't know why you like red over yellow, why you like grapes over peaches , why you like cookies over chips *you don't know why you like boys over girls* This is just it. Its just you don't choose what you like. You are like that way.
Nah, it’s actually *exactly* like how no one was ‘born’ liking grapes over peaches, and it instead has more to do with what you’re exposed to and your experience with those foods.
@@bluecannibaleyes you will not understand.
@anant saini I understand it more than you ever will.
I saw this girl on “trixie and katya watch a documentary about s3x”
Her voice is so appealing to hear, and she makes multiple great points.
You can hear her? Lucky. The volume so low I tripped over it
I'm not sure I can trust anyone who can get on stage and use twins dna as evidence even though environmental factors change gene expression. She's got a good point about just respecting people but she's not explaining it in an effective or even completely true way.
I support lgbtq+ equality just because it's the RIGHT thing to do.
@ are you serious or are you joking
Taha Hagar Lol are u kothism in disguise or something
it's wrong god said it in the bible already if it was right god would have created a male and a male and why dont they naturally reproduce babies but need scientific help if its normal .🤔my opinion
Taha Hagar But are you 🤔
@ Are you serious? I'm sorry if I'm offending you.
Honey just say being bi is ok and go
マル RIGHT?!
WHAT I THOUGHT. THANK YOU.
bruh. There's a lot more to what she has to say than "bi is ok" in this video.
I feel like you missed the whole point...
Nice that you know it's okay but a lot of people still don't and just saying "being bi is ok" might not be the most convincing argument for those people
My ears: listening to fax
My eyes: watching them guns
brb streaming born that way
I think her points would be better made with more numbers. The one number she did give in the beginning about the twins, has a faulty conclusion, if you ask me, when you talk about nurture vs nature. Cause twins both share DNA, and their upbringing. So it seems like you can't juxtapose nurture vs nature in this case.
Nurture doesn't mean literal upbringing it more like all of your environment. Nature means literal genetics which is exactly the same in identical twins
@@ethanchadwick4774 Yes that's clear. But I would assume most relevant factors and circumstances are very similar for most twins. Same family, same schools, same clothing, same exposure to foods, illnesses, cultural expressions etc. up until a certain age they would share almost everything.
When she started talking about bisexuals I teared up, thank you lady, I really needed that
Oh so you 😢 up for believing such Nonsense
Actually.... it has been scientifically proven...
Nice citations
Lost Aquarian , the opposite has not been proven either, no matter how hard dr lisa in the sky with diamonds tries to imagine it.
‘We are built this way’. Done.
she really snapped on this one
Period.
She's thanos
she did but Gaga snapped harder
Maybe I wasn't born this way 100% but it's not a choice.
Smart lady with 💪
She misses a few points. For example that people are with a gender and hide their Real desires. When they later come out it doesnt habe to be a Chance in the orientation.
I agree with her fluidity argument but her science argument are kind of flimsy. Genetics are not as simple as she purports and genetics is not the only birth factor that can influence.
1. Identical twins can have different alleles.
2. Confused bisexuals can be the confounding variables in her research.
(I wish I had access to her research)
Agree with her 2nd and 3rd points though.
I agree with her agument but I find it dangerous as someone part of the LGBT community. Like we have only just started to get accepted on the bases that we're born this way and it's an easy argument for non-lgbt people to understand and accept. I'm worried that even if she's right this kind of rhetoric could be used to regress lgbt rights and its dangerous to do this early on in our communities development and societal acceptance. Maybe in the next few decades, the world will be ready for this but not yet.
If people can only by conned into ‘accepting’ your lifestyle when you lie about it, then that’s a really good sign that your lifestyle is unacceptable.
That's the problem with promoting a cause with false arguments to begin with.
@@marylandgirl9246 People don't get it otherwise I'm sorry that we have to lie just to gain acceptance I hope one day we won't have to.
@@vicious8698 Anything you build on lies will eventually be lost.
She's wrong, Its not about whether it fits into this agreement or that, its just what is true: and it is fixed at birth. Otherwise so many people would not seek to change it
It is not chosen. It is not something you are born with
Both of these statements are true
Her arms ❤️
Life is not worth a damn
'Till you can say
Hey world
I AM WHAT I AM
TH-cam:
Comments: _Its I was born _*_THIS_*_ way, not _*_ThAt_*_ way!!_ 😲😫😥⚠️
The meme doesn’t work. Because they’re all responding to something that was said. So it’s it out of nowhere in response to nothing. But I get it. Memes are trendy and fun to use.
i think the born this way slogan is basically just an inaccurate way of saying out of ones control. We dont choose who we are attracted too, like we dont choose our skin or eye color.
Finally someone standing up for the Bi folks!
I disagree and agree with points in her vid! I agree we should say it’s ok because it’s OK not because we’re born w it. But, it’s still important that we ARE born w it, it’s not something we can choose.
You're creating a false dichotomy. Just because we aren't born with something doesn't mean it's something we can choose. None of our preferences in anything are conscious choices. There are both biological and environmental factors at play.
This video should be titled "I think the 'Born This Way' argument doesn't advance LGBT equality".
So her own anecdotal people she personally looked at counters several studies that determined that gender identity is almost exclusively influenced by hormones and genetics? Plus these examples had no mention of trans people.
Well her argument just makes sense tho
I don’t know how I feel about this. I think everyone is on the Kinsey scale and that it’s not really fluctuating and changing throughout life but you just may become more comfortable with your attractions later in life.
Arthur M , I agree, it just often takes time to accept yourself and takes courage to do that in whole truth, that's all. This speaker is simply the voice of those who don't like crystal clarity and therefore prefer muddy complexity.
max max Exactly.
Accept and love who you are, and accept and love others for who they are.