Had the opportunity to try out the DC20 one-shot with friends and holy, we were all hyped up for it but our expectations were blown out of the water. I was playing around grappling and my friends were always looking for opportunities to Help.
We don't ever use help in combat but no rp roll is made alone...directly in spite of the rogue desperately pleading that he can hide just fine without the Paladin's lights or the bard's magic mouth/hands/shoulders/knees/hey macarena.
Help action has always been amazing. Familiars can't attack but can distract. True strike is terrible but help is basically give true strike to an ally. Force a sneak attack without hiding because someone used help. You'll probably cover all of these I just can't "help" it.
7:38 help action is great if a player is grappling someone, and me as a player decides to help him. But i like it, cause it makes alot of sense. since if 2 people are trying hold down one 1 person, the 2 people should have a better chance of grappling the one person, so help action just make so much sense being good in those scenarios.
In combat, i rarely use the help action unless we are trying to escape or leave in some way from the encounter. Our table makes use of the help action when we are working together. Our performances usually have 2 people (we have a clown and a Bard, lol) so one takes the help action to give the other advantage on our performance. We have two people with levels in rogue (one multiclass and one assasin) so they typically offer the help action to unlock doors. My Bard has mad Dex, so if we make a dex check of some sort, she usually offers our rogue the help action with dex based stuff. We have 2 barbarians (both multiclass) so they can offer the help action for strength based checks typically. We try to have a good way to help, like one barbarian wants to kick down the door, so the other rips the doornob out so it might open easier, or our rogue picks a lock, and our muti-rogue can offer some helpful suggestions. We use it rather often, but thats because the help action is almost always better than have 2 separate rolls to a group check.
The fact that homebrew is required to make the help action feel better is probably why I have hardly ever used the Help action in combat in 5e, unless I truly have nothing else I can do at the moment. It just sucks because helping your allies allows for so many storytelling beats within combat, but giving up your entire action for one roll with advantage rarely feels worth it. Basically it is only used outside of combat to help allies with skill checks. The help action in DC20 looks soooo nice though. I absolutely can't wait to play a commander some day, or a bard that takes the commander's stamina recharge feature (and therefore also the martial expansion talent for some maneuvers)
Cool for a support or support tank in DC20, take the help action 3 times, you'd be giving a d8 a d6 and a d4 to them on there roll, and that averages to 10.5...awfully good for just some support actions, and you can feel good about helping and the person making the attack can feel treating rolling so much for their attack, giving them a 3-18 attack roll increase...good times DC20 is great.
I’m playing a homebrew class called the Savant in my group’s newest campaign. In combat, their whole thing is about helping their allies with single target damage. This really helped me think more about how I’m gonna be helping my party in the campaign. You cooked on this channel name btw.
Absolutely fantastic point! It may very well become optimized in those situations in fact, which is awesome because it sets up a cool narrative to take down said enemy.
Do you know why most tables dont bother with the help action during combat? Its directly counterintuitive with WOTC design philosophy that surround combat; that it feels good to hit. Almost every creatures AC is low and advantage is readily available that generally its more than 70% to 80% to hit. So why bother with the help action when that player can just hit? And just like you said, helping will always be sub optimal even with your changes so why bother? In order to make it more prevalent you have to make it optimal.
in combat if the target is resistent to your damage you can use the help action to let the guy who can hit go Crit fishing. +4% for crit is pretty good and will replace the damage you would have done. Same if the target has turtled up with a shield spell.
Used to play a rogue mastermind, so I did help as a BA a lot. I’ve almost never found it useful as a full action unless I can’t do anything. Very excited for new possibilities of help with DC20
Ive never used the help action in combat, but ive used it a lot out of combat (played DnD for 6 years now). Cant w8 for DC20 to be fully realeased 😀 I find DnD to be so amazingly boring😴 after i discovered DC20.
During a 2 year campaign. We had a mastermind rogue use the help action alot. But she was often times being reminded by the other players that she could. Alot of players just think. Action? I bonk... reaction? Bonk...
Lol yes. Same. Lately what I've been doing is: 1. if it can be described and makes sense/is cool, then remove the "must be withing 5ft. of the target/creature you're helping." 2. If you're helping with an attack roll and it hits add your level worth of damage (currently 8 in our campaign)
Had the opportunity to try out the DC20 one-shot with friends and holy, we were all hyped up for it but our expectations were blown out of the water.
I was playing around grappling and my friends were always looking for opportunities to Help.
Yes!!! Grappling is another thing that just feels good in DC20. I'm super happy your group enjoyed it too!
We don't ever use help in combat but no rp roll is made alone...directly in spite of the rogue desperately pleading that he can hide just fine without the Paladin's lights or the bard's magic mouth/hands/shoulders/knees/hey macarena.
This is hilarious 😂
Help action has always been amazing. Familiars can't attack but can distract. True strike is terrible but help is basically give true strike to an ally. Force a sneak attack without hiding because someone used help. You'll probably cover all of these I just can't "help" it.
Haha. For sure, when you incorporate some creative flavor help becomes the coolest action imo.
7:38 help action is great if a player is grappling someone, and me as a player decides to help him.
But i like it, cause it makes alot of sense. since if 2 people are trying hold down one 1 person, the 2 people should have a better chance of grappling the one person, so help action just make so much sense being good in those scenarios.
Completely agree, and it just feels good at the table knowing that it works well and makes sense.
Super common at my table for skill checks - less so in combat 😄
And that makes perfect sense, that's definitely how it is for most people I imagine.
In combat, i rarely use the help action unless we are trying to escape or leave in some way from the encounter. Our table makes use of the help action when we are working together. Our performances usually have 2 people (we have a clown and a Bard, lol) so one takes the help action to give the other advantage on our performance. We have two people with levels in rogue (one multiclass and one assasin) so they typically offer the help action to unlock doors. My Bard has mad Dex, so if we make a dex check of some sort, she usually offers our rogue the help action with dex based stuff. We have 2 barbarians (both multiclass) so they can offer the help action for strength based checks typically. We try to have a good way to help, like one barbarian wants to kick down the door, so the other rips the doornob out so it might open easier, or our rogue picks a lock, and our muti-rogue can offer some helpful suggestions. We use it rather often, but thats because the help action is almost always better than have 2 separate rolls to a group check.
Love it. I'll never get tired of hearing these kinds of creative concepts.
I died when you said "I attack" the third time 😂😂😂
Good video and good DC20 subject to showcase, man 👍
@@spark-dunor haha, cool! Thanks spark I really appreciate that! 🤍
The fact that homebrew is required to make the help action feel better is probably why I have hardly ever used the Help action in combat in 5e, unless I truly have nothing else I can do at the moment. It just sucks because helping your allies allows for so many storytelling beats within combat, but giving up your entire action for one roll with advantage rarely feels worth it. Basically it is only used outside of combat to help allies with skill checks.
The help action in DC20 looks soooo nice though. I absolutely can't wait to play a commander some day, or a bard that takes the commander's stamina recharge feature (and therefore also the martial expansion talent for some maneuvers)
Dude YES the commander! By far, the commander is the most fun support character I've ever played.
Thank you for the kind words.
Cool for a support or support tank in DC20, take the help action 3 times, you'd be giving a d8 a d6 and a d4 to them on there roll, and that averages to 10.5...awfully good for just some support actions, and you can feel good about helping and the person making the attack can feel treating rolling so much for their attack, giving them a 3-18 attack roll increase...good times DC20 is great.
Excellently stated my friend. It JUST FEELS GOOD. It's everything I want for a simple support action or character.
I honestly had no idea you could help someone in combat, I’m 100% gonna be using that next session!
I’m playing a homebrew class called the Savant in my group’s newest campaign. In combat, their whole thing is about helping their allies with single target damage. This really helped me think more about how I’m gonna be helping my party in the campaign. You cooked on this channel name btw.
Thank you so much! Glad to be an inspiration!!! For the record that class sounds awesome.
@@SlowYourRole20 It’s on GM Binder by LaserLlama if you wanna check it out.
In DC20 help is really important if your opponents has Damage reduction. Since heavy or higher hits ignore Damage reduction.
Absolutely fantastic point! It may very well become optimized in those situations in fact, which is awesome because it sets up a cool narrative to take down said enemy.
Do you know why most tables dont bother with the help action during combat? Its directly counterintuitive with WOTC design philosophy that surround combat; that it feels good to hit. Almost every creatures AC is low and advantage is readily available that generally its more than 70% to 80% to hit. So why bother with the help action when that player can just hit? And just like you said, helping will always be sub optimal even with your changes so why bother? In order to make it more prevalent you have to make it optimal.
Perfect point and well stated! This is completely accurate.
in combat if the target is resistent to your damage you can use the help action to let the guy who can hit go Crit fishing. +4% for crit is pretty good and will replace the damage you would have done. Same if the target has turtled up with a shield spell.
Yes! Thanks for chiming in that's a very solid point!
Used to play a rogue mastermind, so I did help as a BA a lot. I’ve almost never found it useful as a full action unless I can’t do anything. Very excited for new possibilities of help with DC20
Ive never used the help action in combat, but ive used it a lot out of combat (played DnD for 6 years now). Cant w8 for DC20 to be fully realeased 😀 I find DnD to be so amazingly boring😴 after i discovered DC20.
With both statements, you are definitely not alone my friend. 🤣
During a 2 year campaign. We had a mastermind rogue use the help action alot. But she was often times being reminded by the other players that she could.
Alot of players just think. Action? I bonk... reaction? Bonk...
@@ruralmason9729 lol yes that's true. Bonk = victory after all, interesting or not 😅
I win!
🤣 YES!
For the record everyone... It's true. @jacksonhorrocks4281 does indeed win.
🙂👍🏻
Thank you 🤍
2:00 zero%
Lol yes. Same. Lately what I've been doing is:
1. if it can be described and makes sense/is cool, then remove the "must be withing 5ft. of the target/creature you're helping."
2. If you're helping with an attack roll and it hits add your level worth of damage (currently 8 in our campaign)
🥳🫂👍🏿
Love a good house rule
Heck yeah, 'preciate you twin 🤍