10 signs something is WRONG with your D&D game
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2023
- These are the 10 warning signs that something may be wrong with your D&D game, that your players may not be having fun.
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Interested in this Kickstarted. Just one question: Is this book system agnostic, or are the included guides more suited for one system or another?
It’s agnostic
How much is this gonna be to support the Kickstarter? I've never backed anything and don't know how it works. I want to stash some money aside for it.
@@treythesmall6723 There are various tiers and different prices. I don't want to say anything because until we launch things may change.
@@chaedi8457 100% system and genre agnostic.
To be fair, if players are giving you negative feedback, they likely are enjoying the game, just some parts of it are frustrating for them. If they aren't giving any feedback (positive or negative), that's a good sign they've stopped caring about the game.
Now I'm even more paranoid, thank's luke
Who is thank, and how does he own Luke? 🤣
Don't be paranoid, remember players are people. Tailor your games to your players, as long as you hit the main pillars of gameplay and everyone is engaged, your good. Since I let the players have some freedom, we are all enjoying it more.
😂 my thoughts exactly!
Bro tip: after each session, ask your players for direct feedback about lore, rolls, timing, roleplaying, etc. Don't be afraid, the ultimate goal of everyone is have fun. And be ready to listen criticism, you asked for it afterall.
It's the mark of a good DM, the ones who constantly question how the game is going are the ones who care :)
It is often a sign of paranoia, not actually good dming. I am a pretty bad DM and after every session I always ask my players "how was today's session? what do you want to see differently next time?" and the response is almost always "It was ok. IDK what you could do to improve it." Now I'm driving myself crazy trying to watch videos like these to figure out what is actually wrong with my games since my players won't tell me, but I know there is something wrong with my games because at least 5 of the 10 points from this video apply to my group. Two other people from my group also take turns DMing their own campaigns for us, and those campaigns rarely have problems, and they never ask "how was the session?" because they don't need to. Their sessions are good.
@@JoeSmith-st9lc it really sucks you are feeling like that. There's lots of reasons why a DM might struggle, and only some of them are in his or her control. It's entirely possible your players aren't helping, as DM isn't actualy a performance art solely performed by the DM. Players write their own stories, and should act them out in order for a game to reach that magical level. That aside, if DM'ing is stressing you like that... don't. DM's are supposed to have fun to and if it's not fun for you, just be a player and have fun. Anxiety isn't fun. Feel better my man, the fact that you care enough to cause yourself anxiety and still try is admirable.
The best complement a player gave me was playing the game online at the airport waiting for his plane coming home from vacation in Australia. I would have been fine with him missing the session, but he wanted to play so he did. Real life does happen. A player can legit miss a session due to circumstance. All good, but Luke is right. If they keep missing a session because real life intervenes they're not into the game. That doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault as DM, but it does mean as DM you need to accept the player is not a player anymore. Obligatory yelling at Luke: Bacon isn't kosher.
I'd be inclined to agree but i have been an exception to this assumption. The first time i got into a group with an experienced DM, I became so obsessed with the campaign that I was spending every hour of every day of the week planning and thinking about what to do in the next session, but that excitement would make me lose sleep. In the long run, I missed sessions or fell asleep during them 4 times and it was ironically because I cared too much about playing it. I got kicked out of that campaign and was depressed for MONTHS afterwards.
@@HamsterPants522 Did you or your GM initiate a conversation about why you were falling asleep and missing games?
If not, why not?
It seems a shame to lose a player so invested in the game without a conversation or an attempt to work out a solution.
Grab your ketchup and crunch away my friends.
Best alternative: Beef Bacon. Same style of cut, but from a beef instead of a pork. Totally kosher-able, and suitably tasty!
If your players dont thank you and kiss you on the mouth after each session, you're not DMing good enough.
Correct! It's gotta be on the mouth. If they wanna kiss on the cheek something is definitely wrong!
real
What does it mean if they include tongue? Ummm...asking for a friend.
@JasonRODell they're really into your dnd campaign. REALLY into it.
@@JODamaramu Maybe they want to play a different kind of roleplay naked.
Synopsis:
1) Lack of Engagement 0:30
2) Declining Attendance 1:53
3) Limited Roleplay 3:51
4) Lack of Cooperation 6:26
5) No Pre- and Post- Game Discussions 8:55
6) Rushing through Content 11:43
7) Constant Rule Disputes 13:00
8) Lack of Character Development 14:25
9) Lack of Initiative 15:35
10) Negative Feedback 20:03
I have no post game discussion in my group but after playing for 4 hours we are just tired and hungry and I'm sure then it's quite late for 2 people so we just leave right after game ends
I had a DM who started asking me about the game because I did give him honest feedback. And the results were amazing. Afterwards every session, he would ask me because I spoke with the other players and I got all their complaints and I transmitted them. If the players aren't honest with their likes and dislikes with the DM because they feel obligation, pick a player that does speak with you and have him tell you everyone's discomfort. Of course, with the intention to improve. If you use the info wrong (as to find out strategies or so) you will lose the connection.
Players like you are the real MVPs. I ask one on one with my players but they just tell me I'm doing good which doesn't help me at all. My wife is pretty good about letting me know things but you go above and beyond and are such a helpful character
What do you mean by using the info to find out strategies?
@@Dungeon-uh4ph For instance, if players are aware of a fight in the near future they may strategize amongst each other how they’ll deal with it. If you learn of this and alter your plans to counter that specific strategy then you are abusing the trust of your players and will most likely not have them for much longer. That is what they mean. Meta gaming is using outside info to assist your abilities in game. It’s not just players who can meta game. The dm has far more tools and power to meta game and results can be far worse. Bare in mind I’ve been a dm for four years now and a player for 8 months. If a player meta games it can be easily fixed in game and the player will usually get a slap on the wrist or the spray bottle. Bad. No. If a dm meta games it can do a lot worse. Players don’t have much power to fix that outside of just walking away from that game.
I had a player quit because they didn't like the combat and only liked the roleplaying in social encounters 😂
Do you roleplay during encounters?
You should direct that person to your town’s theatrical improv group, would be more up their alley.
@MagiofAsura Yes I do and have the players roleplay also. I think it was more he didn't want any combat at all.
@@Berks11 it's funny because most of the encounters in that game were exploration with plenty of roleplaying outside of combat
@@mmcalli0 ...if he wanted to play "Bunnies and Burrows" they he shoulda looked for people to play that.
This is why a session zero is important. Even a game of noble intrigues and courtly society has the everpresent threat of violence just under the false smiles. I can't imagine a game without ANY combat!
All good advice, the #1 indicator for me of my game being good or bad is when I told my players that was the at the end of a 1 shot. The players insisted I keep dming when I hadn't planned on it. It's been 5-6 sessions more since then and they still say the same thing. :)
At the end of each of my games we do "Good, Bad, Change" and each of my players lists something they really enjoyed about the session, something they didn't like about the session, and something they feel could be changed/improved for future sessions.
Sounds similar to something we do at work called plus deltas. Plus is obviously anything that went well, delta is where things could have gone better. I'm not sure it works great to have bad things that aren't also things that could be changed. Maaayyybe?
Roses and Thorns (good and bad) was a relatively recent feedback method, added Buds (new/change) a bit later. Then got revamped into Stars (good) and Wishes (new/change) feedback method so as to not focus on negative aspects, I guess.
Luke had a video that put forth the similar: something to keep doing, something to stop doing, something to begin doing.
"Not all players like speaking in character" THANK you! I have struggled with this, because I tend to play characters who are very different from myself, and it's hard sometimes to play them directly. I don't speak like they do which makes improv difficult, I'm generally not a good actor so I'm not good at expressing the mood I want, etc. I tend to be what I call a "descriptive roleplayer". I tend to describe what my character is doing and saying and how they're doing and saying it. I will describe their expression, body language, and the general gist of what they're saying a lot of the time. And so many DMs have cut me off and insisted I speak and act as them, rather than describing them. But when I do that people get the entirely wrong idea of who my character even is. They usually turn into a joke because I initially presented them as serious or confident, but I can't act that way on a moment's notice, so then my character gets made fun of for presenting as serious or confident but then stumbling over their words or sounding unsure because that's how I end up talking while trying to play them. I have flat out stopped playing certain characters because of this. (and don't get me started on DMs who will force bards to perform irl)
And the rules! Had what I would say was one of the worst games I've ever been in for multiple reasons (and that DM it turns out was just generally a bad person, big yikes), but one of them was the DM's handling of the rules. Which was basically the rules were whatever gave HIM the upper hand in the moment. Example: I made a character who could get his AC very high. This was to balance out the fact he couldn't really attack (pure support). I switched to playing this character midway through the campaign, and suddenly we ended up in a lot of situations where it "just made sense" for enemies to be able to hit me automatically without any kind of roll. And this wasn't just me saying "Hey no fair," this was the entire rest of the table going "Wait, what? Shouldn't there be rolls happening? That's not how that works." and his reasoning was always just "Well as the DM this just makes the most sense to me." And I was not the only one getting that kind of treatment, and there's a reason that game ended up falling apart.
When I am a player, I don't use "voices", but I do have different body language cues for different characters.
My rogue leans back and grins. My fighter leans forward and often gestures with a fist.
When I DM, I try to use the same methods for recurring NPCs to help me AND the players be able to tell that NPC apart from others.
ah, yes! i too am bad at this, and i am a gm, let me tell you... there is a reason why my dnd games dont have very much social interactions, luckly my players dont mind... =O
Anybody who gives you a hard time for that is a jerk. That said, if you're not great at it and want to get better (the second half there is key!) the only real way is by doing.
@@dirtywhitellama Do or do not. There is no try.
The end of the rise of skywalker should have had Rey say her name is Rey Rey Binks.
Now I liked this ending!
I have had to quit running a game for my close friends for like 8 of the 10 reasons here (all at the same time). They expressed interest in wanting to play so I set up a game for them. It had been maybe 10 years since I had played before and about the same since I dmed. they were all there every session and they didnt argue with me, in fact they raved about how much fun they were having... but it sure didnt FEEL like it. So I asked what they wanted, how I could improve ect. Got almost nothing for feedback, and in the end I just stopped playing. I honestly felt like it was my fault, i obviously was not good enough, that type thing.
Fast forward a few years and they talked me into trying again. this time three of the same people and my best friend. This game online instead of in person. the only one who would talk and pay attention was my best friend, she pretty much was the only one moving anything forward and I am really glad she was there because I started feeling like it was me again, she assured me it was not. I often would feel like I was preforming a one man show (especially when my best friend was unable to make it for the session). I ended up starting a second group midway through and then let this one go on break, never to come back again.
The other group I started was with my DM as a player, my best friend, and an online friend who had never played before. They pretty much run the game themselves. they can spend sessions just exploring towns and they latch onto any little tidbit I say. They currently have a to do list of like 15 things they want to explore or learn about. I do not feel stressed out, I can tell they are having fun. It has really helped me enjoy the game again.
The close friends still talk about missing the game and wanting to play again but ... I just cant. Actions spoke way louder than words.
Have you considered if everyone was paying attention, participating, and raving about your game that they were in fact enjoying it, and that you're just fighting one hell of a case of imposter syndrome?
You say it was their "actions" in that first game, but didn't list anything that they actually did that made you feel that way.
@@Jhaiisiin I did have that thought as well, and deal with it to some degree even with my current players.
The issues in no particular order:
1) talking about other things (including when i am describing a scene)
2) playing phone games, browsing instagram ect
3) having to recap what has happened when their turn comes up because they were not paying attention, and even with a recap including the fighter is currently down and is at negative health the healer goes "ok i will summon woodland creatures"
4) just giving up when it involves problem solving (puzzle that they just decided "i guess we are stuck here then" instead of using any of the skills or spells even when i hinted heavily. Luckily on this one the one playing the 6 int barbarian actually did pay attention and solved it even though in character he should have been the last one probably.
5) the second round when we were playing online i added sound effects, including warnings for when your turn was coming up and i still would have to say their name multiple times. I commented about having added sound effects to warn of upcoming turns and get "oh i listen to music so the sounds are muted"
6) going along with the not paying attention.. i timed turns for certain players at 10+ minutes more than once because they didnt plan before their turn come up. this of course didnt help with the paying attention for everyone else
7) for the online game: Being late regularly then taking 15-30 minutes to talk about life before getting sorted and logged in
8) i set a scene and then crickets... ending in me prompting "so what are you doing?" and sometimes ending up with "so you could try doing x y or z"
Honestly I could keep going. the group I have now has none of these issues except maybe the being late one sometimes. Even so I always feel like I am not doing enough after two campaigns of the above making me feel like crap.
edit: the actions never matched the words for anyone in the group except the one who didnt join the second group. she didnt want to play online, she had never played before so alot of her issues were new player learning and when i quit she had started getting the hang of it. that was the downed fighter mentioned above. In the second group my best friend who i played with as a teenager and i knew I would have no issues with was fine, the other three were in both campaigns.
The one who played the above mentioned healer and such was the one raving about how much fun she had and really pushed for us to play. She also made me feel guilty when i stopped the game, even when I told her why she blamed it on others instead of taking ownership for teh fact she was the one listening to music, not paying attention or taking 10 minute long turns.
@@ultrakitten674 That definitely changes things with all those examples. Glad your current group is better, and g'luck with managing that imposter syndrome. As a person who deals with that same issue all the time, it's an eternal struggle.
Your title should really be '' 10 Examples of terrible DND players '' or '' 10 signs your players straight out don't like DND ''
When I see a person on the phone, I start by asking them what are you doing and if they say choosing spells for my character, or next action, ect... I get it. These days more people (I think anyway) have their character sheet online, than printed out on paper.
I learned long ago to ask as many questions as I could, in the form of open-ended questions. For example, What did you enjoy about the game? What do you think I could improve? What would you like to see or encounter in the next game?
Most people I can tell if they are having a great time, but some people are not as easy to read as others. That "poker face", or that "chess player" who is thinking ten moves ahead of the dm to outsmart the villain might be having a great time. But I wouldn't know until I asked, because from reading their body language they actually looked bored.
This was really good. I'll probably even listen to it again to see what I missed. Thanks Luke!
Thanks! You are very welcome
@@theDMLair Bacon!
Part that seems to be missing in that roleplay part is the DM tends to move the players (even the ones that did not say they were moving.. not on the map, but in the ToTM) So between DM's need/desire to "control" and Players neglecting to say they are moving... (because they are used to DM's moving them) the players become in-sensed and just sit back and not engage.
I have a DM that keeps annoying me by making my character look like an idiot. In a role-play thread on Discord that was set to be before the end of the in-person session for talk on a day-long journey: "Do we even have trebuchets? (to launch pigs over a wall at our destingation)" > NPC points to the scaffolding of the army at the destination making siege equipment.
On the other hand, he keeps trying to kill the NPC love interest and/or sisters of our female player, so it could be worse.
Isn't Luke his own script writer?
I hope so, otherwise the comments are quite unprofessional
I was half expecting a skit at the end where Luke was looking for a new job because he had just fired himself. 😂
@@kspice6807 same
Either that or the script writer wrote those asides too.
My exact same question too
Lack of initiative was a big deal for us, I started rolling initiative even when not needed.
“I drink my beer.”
“Roll initiative!”
I love these videos. It also makes me feel lucky to still be gaming 20+ years later with the same guys I gamed with in high school. All this is stuff of the distant past.
Hey! Our last drop-out confessed to not being interested in playing! Okay, I forced his hand by asking him outright if he was going to continue. He wanted to play Mythic Pathfinder where he could cast any spell without first learning it, not have it cast against his spell use for the day, overcome all spell resistance and damage reduction, and apply any meta-magic feat without it using the appropriate spell lvl... and did not want to continue once the GM homebrewed Mythic powers that were less game-breaking than the Pathfinder 1e Mythic book that serves as little more than emergency toilet paper or firepit fuel.
PS That player wanted us all to change to 5E in order to continue playing, if not as Mythic. /roflol Yeah, nah.
Luke, I’m asking your opinion on the following. I ranted about this in a comment I made on a 2 or 3 year old video of yours just yesterday, but here it goes. When my current group got together, none of us had ever been a DM, so we decided to each take a turn with a short campaign (2 or 3 sessions each) to see who who was a good fit and might want to DM more long term. Everyone’s style was different, but everyone enjoyed it… until now. The current DM is far more into voice acting and verbose descriptions than the rest of us, and the game bogs down as a consequence, but even that is ok. The problem is some of the game mechanics he uses. We are all adults with busy schedules, so we frequently have substitute players step in to keep the numbers up. They usually are immediately fully engaged and we keep things moving. This DM, however, made a new player sit idle for two hours before introducing the new character, then spent the rest of the session in narratives and descriptions. The new guy rolled a die one time on a group skill check in an entire 4 hour session. Similarly, the session started with part two of a combat sequence we had ended with previously. In the first round, a low level monster took a potion then shot my character with a blow dart which hit for like 3 damage, but then I had to roll a con save because the dart was tipped with an unknown and unidentifiable magically altered poison which rendered me inert for the duration of the combat. No saving throws on subsequent turns, and my party could not help because there was no way to identify the unknown home-brewed spell-laced poison. I had no recourse. I had to sit idle for what tuned out to be a 45 minute fight due to excessively long narrative descriptions of each action on everyone’s turn.
I swore never to argue with a DM, but I challenged the idea that an otherwise full health character can be rendered incapacitated for a whole combat with no ability to make any kind of saving throw on subsequent turns, or get any assistance from the party. I can find no other spell, item, or condition where that can happen, Wall of force being the closest thing I could find. But even wall of force can be disintegrated, and the character still gets a turn, they just can’t pass through the wall.
So, I accept that the DM is the arbiter of the rules, but they should be following and enforcing the established rules of the game or be consistent with their intention. In any case, in my opinion, no player who is actively sitting at your table should ever be forced to sit idle. Make me role with disadvantage, cut off my arm, kill my character, that’s all part of the game. But never make a player sit idle, that is not part of the game.
Your thoughts?
Any mechanic be it spell (such as banishment) that removes a player from the game so that they sit idle should generally be avoided by GMs. Players come to play, not sit there and do nothing. This is a reason I dislike the spell Counterspell; it forces both GM and players to not play the game. Furthermore, I have always advocated strongly that new PCs should be worked into the game flow immediately, within say 5 minutes, of being ready play. No waiting. It comes back to the previous point: players want to play and things that stop them from playing are to be avoided at almost all costs.
Those are my thoughts on the matter. The only solution is speaking with the GM about it and explaining how those situations make you and other players feel and why it's negatively impacting the enjoyability of the game. Hopefully, he'll see the point and change.
@@theDMLair thank you for the reply. It’s great to get feedback from the DM I have watched the most on TH-cam, especially when you tell me I’m right…
@@theDMLair well, I had my private chat with the DM. I politely made the case for getting new or visiting players fully engaged as quickly as possible, and to avoid making players sit idle at the table. I also pointed out things he had done both as a DM and a player that I thought were exceptional, and that I looked forward to seeing the rest of his campaign. He responded by just not showing up to DM with no notice to the group. Classy. The rest of us just pulled out a one shot map and a bucket of minis we had prepared for just such an occasion, and had a great night of DnD. It’s sad, really, and disappointing. But if it turns out to be a permanent thing, I guess it’s for the best.
Thank you Luke, you’ve made me even more confident in my performance as a DM! My current group are new starters to D&D currently playing Lost Mine of Phandelver and I couldn’t have asked for more engagement and enthusiasm. Last session I took a great chunk of your tips and the level of engagement, enthusiasm and initiative just went to a whole new level. One even suggested letting players know when their turn was next up so they could be prepared in order to speed up combat. Quite often I worry people are not enjoying themselves at my games, mainly due to anxiety and self-doubt, and your tips, experience and logic-based approach have really helped. Thank you!
Awesome, I so happy to be able to help and hear that your games have been going so well!
For initiative, what I do these days is hang folded cards off the top of my GM screen with everyone's names in order from left to right to represent their turn order, with my monster turns there too so I know when I go. That way everyone can see the turn order super easy. You can see me doing this in my Thieves Abound games that I put on my channel here.
@@theDMLair Thanks that’s a great tip, I’ll be sure to give that a try! I’ll check out your Thieves Abound games as well 😊
8:06 is important, I ran a game where I had a single player do most of these things, when I talked to him about his attendance (we were down to playing around once a month because of this player) he told the host that I was trying to kick him out, If I wanted to kick him out I just would have done it. He regularly missed games and wanted more roleplay with NPCs but every time he did he added a new enemy to the party or alienated an ally to include alienating a gold dragon king, angering an Inquisitor, and an Ancient Black Dragon , and was in general a pain to deal with. I could do nothing because he was a good friend of the host, which is why I prefer to host when I run. He was the main instigator for any conflict with other players, and the host always took his side no matter the situation (to the point of blaming people that had to take their son to the emergency room, or go to a funeral for games not getting played (we had a rule if we were missing 2 players we would cancel, he was always the second player ). It appears that this player's dislike was personal for some reason as in a game we were both players in he was constantly antagonistic, I ended up dropping my game and dropping out of the other one as it was obvious to me he would continue to be an issue in both games and I wasn't having fun in either.
It is important to pay attention to the entire party, if you have one player doing these things and the rest of the party is having fun then it is a player issue and not a bad DM issue.
I set a notification for your Kickstarter. Looking forward to it.
8:07 I feel like this is a good place to make a reference to the Monty Python an argument sketch.
Enjoyed rise of Skywalker because it was a camrip with advertisements for getb8 gambling on screen, often at inconvenient (if you wanted it to be watchable) parts. Half the screen taken up with an exploding piñata during the hyperspace skipping at the start and bad encoding to make it pixelated makes the experience far more enjoyable with friends
Excellent information, thanks.
Some players feel like they don't have as much of a voice as others or get talked over. Or passive aggressive behavior like a head-in-hands disapproval gesture when the quieter player tries to get into it or makes a non-optimal in-game decision can leave players feeling inhibited. DM to keep an eye and encourage the quieter or newer players.
This was great content Luke thank you again. It’s not always easy seeing these things in one’s own group. If I could find any players I’ll keep these in mind lol
7:00 Around here I expected a cut to the script which had all those words on it.
Great episode. I also need to know where you bought that shirt!!
I know for a fact my players in my campaigns, enjoy my games.
The groups i GM happen to groups that are all Gamemasters.
An i have noticed the other Gamemasters often try to incorporate my tactics , tricks & techniques into thier games.
Imitation is the highest form
Of flattery
My favorite group is the one that is happiest when the fist flies and blood rolls
I just want to thank you for your videos. I have learned its not always me as the DM but also the players that make the games fun. I've dealt with a toxic player (family/friend) who we'd play together, or I'd DM. I finally had the heart to talk to him and cut the ties of playing. Sessions and gaming is better overall.
You are very welcome! Happy to be able to help. 😁
These concepts apply to individuals as well. I realize that we had one person in our campaign who must have disliked the campaign. We had one person who confronted players, argued about rulings, ignored character development and role playing, and would sometimes just not engage until required to engage. But the others are very engaged and talking about it all the time.
"...there is nothing at the end but the brick wall of disappointment..."
I have never heard that description used for Disney's Star Wars Trilogy and I completely agree with it.
Very good video!
OK, Luke. I am the DM. I do not play in summer: too busy. REALLY. I work 8 to 12 hours in a factory, then in summer (last 4, anyways), I do yardwork, home repair, tree removal, deck repair and staining, auto upkeep. I do collect books and minis, though. Players are free to engage in other games and with other DMs. But I am busy when weather permits. P.S.: Michigan
Thank you very much for the rant in #3!
I have two players that are constantly talking about game rules and how they can be implemented or such half an hour after the game is suppose to start! It is becoming frustrating but I value their experience as I am a new DM; running my first campaign but I can tell these two are frustrating my players! I am sure there are other issues too.
I usually cut things off at a certain point and start the game. Especially when I know other players want to get on with it. As long as it's done politely and respectfully stopping there conversation isn't a bad thing. It is literally allowing people to do the thing that they came to do. Play the game.
@@theDMLair I often remind them that I have a discord channel dedicated for rules discussion! They both say that these are not rules discussions but hints and tips and tricks for me to use. Yes; thank you for that but I have a game to run so chop, chop; let's roll digital math rocks.
When rules discussion start I'll usually make a ruling then say "that's how we'll do it this session. We'll look it up after. If it's wrong and hurts you, sorry. If it's wrong and benefits you, then you got away with one"
I always like to say "Game on!" when I'm ready to start. Until then, my players are allowed to talk about whatever, but once that's said, it's time to focus. Doing it consistently eventually gave me the ability to switch to Game Mode like a lightswitch, and get folks focused.
@@theofficerfactory2625 One can probably read the entire rules section of the SRD in a half an hour..what more could they really be offering? It kind of sounds like feedback, or nit-picking, or maybe even trying to mod their DM to suit themselves. Perhaps ask them to save the feedback/tips for after the game session.
I'm currently in a place where I'm avoiding my group more or less completely. A friend of one of the group members joined and I've come to dislike this person so much that I've dropped out of playing and DMing. They insisted on doing both as well and we as a group like to encourage people to DM so we let her. I actually linked the you may be a bad player and you may be a bad DM videos in the group because she does about 99% of the things in them...to no avail, seems to have flew right over her head. It's like she thought they were guides. She even tried to push a relationship with one of her npc's on one of the other player's characters. The others have settled onto the mindset that bad DnD is better than no DnD and keep playing....not my mindset. It's at the point I made up a night job so that I unfortunately have to work every Friday night because no DnD is a better option to me. Any tips for what to do about your friends drinking the poisoned Kool-Aid just so they can have Kool-Aid?
I'm a firm beleaver of the phrase: GMs are not responsable for the fun on the gaming table alone!
Of course, as a GM I can influence much more in the session, but TTRPGs are a group activity. So if the game is not fun at the table, what can YOU as a player do about it? It's always easy to blame the GM for not being engaging enough or for the boring story line. But in my understanding the GM is just another member of the group, who is kind enough to take on more tasks for keeping the game running.
After I understood this, I'm always striving to do the social interactions of the game properly and to invite other players to join me in funny or indearing conversations. I'm responsible for my own fun. So if there is no fun at the table, then I have to ignite the spark of fun.
I think this mostly true, however the extent to which a GM influences everyone's fun cannot be understated. The table can still have fun if there is a bad player or two; if you have a bad GM, the chances of fun happening are very low.
Luke, until I ran into your channel I had never heard of people describing it as "social interaction." For 42 years of gaming, literally everyone else refers to the non combat parts as roleplaying...or at least that was my experience.
I know... I know... I will have to fight this battle until I retire. :D
@@theDMLair You're not alone in the fight.
I actually agree with what you say, but that's the problem with having "pure" combat system for me. I once tried a system with friends a few years ago where you didn't have to cast any dice, but you had to describe everything you did, to the combat. Then, the GM decided how effective it was (he had key words or something). It was interesting to try, and if you could not RP a lot, it could get very long
I always ask my players if they have any tips for next sessions, that's the best way in my opinion
You think it’s a breath of fresh air, but when you actually, politely tell someone you don’t think this game is going to work for you or that outing isn’t your kind of thing…they actually get annoyed with you for being rude. Just saying.
But I totally love your videos and it’s been helping me a lot as a player to know what I do and don’t want to play and how to deal with other players and my DM. Thanks!
Oh yeah, I get it. It's tough to tell if someone is thickskinned enough for the truth or not, so polite declines of "I don't have the time" are less risky.
I didn't time it, but I think you just ranted about having to give the rant for a longer time than you actually gave the original rant for. That was beautiful 😂
This is quite a conundrum. In my party we have one "joker", bard character that wants to have fun - make friends with all the enemies and not kill the foes. While another player wants to have ordinary combat with normal xp gain. How do I solve that?
For n9 at my tables they are all indecisive as hell some are also not very talkative, other are just blanking on what to do even tho i gave them literally EVERYTHING necessary to make their decisions, combine that to some not listening from time to time & you get the picture but that doesn't stop us from enjoying ourselves during our sessions. For the pre/post game discussion i personally make sure that there is always at least a pre game one to get questions & potential ideas out so it doesn't pause the game at random intervals.
Regarding people always having conflicts, it comes down to this simple statement. "You make time for the things that are important."
If they can never make time for the game, regardless of what they say, it's not as important to them as they might want it to be. Sometimes that's a hard truth to face when you want to do something but can never make it work. It just means that other things in your life are more important at that moment. And that's *not* a bad thing. You just need to face it and realize it. If you can shift things to make it work, great! Otherwise, just be honest with yourself and others and TELL THEM that their game unfortunately can't take priority over other concerns and you'll let them know when or if you can return.
Better to be honest.
100% agree.
I was interested in your screen writing position. I have several credits on IMDb, and have written several movies.
The rant got my sub, very well said
Sweet, welcome. I rant sometimes, espeically in live streams. :D
Another thing I would like to add, what told me without a doubt that some of my players are just not intrested in the game is the reluctance to learn the basic rules. Of course, some classes are complicated and there are a lot of rules to memorize, but when we've had like 10 sessions already and they still have no idea what "check" or "attack roll" means... Yeah, didn't take me long to realize that these players were just not very intrested. There were other things too, I also believe that if you WANT to make time for something, then you will find a way most of the time. Some of the players could almost never make it. I ended up letting go of the campaign pretty soon. This was my first try at DMing and I still don't rly know if I was doing something wrong or DnD was just not the game for these friends (Not all of them were like this, I just didn't rly know how to handle the situation, I wouldn't have felt good kicking people out of the game). I like to think it's the latter.
Another great vid from the Master. Can't wait for the books.
The problem with phone watching is that people have their character details on D&D Beyond, which is sub optimum in lots of ways, not least because of all the distractions that a phone serves up, and also that people can't find their details quickly. So I have brought in a house rule that people should use print outs of their character sheets.
I unfortunately don't have a group to play with:(
However, I have created 6 different lvl 1 characters in case I find a group.
Anyway, the biggest things I would have an issue with would be stuff like TPK, Individual Player Character deaths, required to speak/act a certain way, and being forced into certain roles!
To point number 6 i have had the opposite happen where the dm is rushus through stuff
Nice. Like all of those apply to at least half of my group but whenever I ask them what they wanna do they have no clue and say its all fine xddd
Sometimes players might not seem to be having fun or is not engaged fully with the game. But it is not always a problem with the game. If they say they are having fun, take their word for it. Don't assume they are trying to not hurt your feelings.
When people start talking about non-game stuff, allow for it. At the start of the game, and occasionally in-game. But don't let it take over, or take a break from the game while players go off topic.
If some players just want to be there for the combat or just the social role-playing, or one unique aspect of the game, discuss it with the player. Maybe thats just what they want and aren't interested in the other things. That's fine if it's not a problem for everyone.
I Have a player who is quite quiet during session(still payed attention) and he regularly asks when we can play the next session. So don‘t assume your quiet players aren‘t having fun.
Something that kills my enthusiasm is when at the start of a game where players are missing, those who *are* present have to roleplay thru some prolonged contrivance explaining the absence or sidelining of the respective character. Even worse, is the following week where the now-returned player gets their own vignette for an uncomfortably long solo scene showcasing what their character was up to and how they are reunited with us.
Not only does this feel insulting to our intelligence, but it creates an awkward dynamic where a player with attendance issues (justified or not) is taking time away from the rest of the group getting to participate. So it ends up being cringe for both that player as well as the rest of the party because 10s of minutes have been wasted across 2 sessions now instead of just a quick 2-minute heads-up at the start of each game.
I think the order (disengaged then absent) makes sense. Disengagement would come first, then skipping sessions before dropping out.
Sign 11: when the DM wears a shirt that says he controls your fate. :D
Thank you for your video
We have a player in our group that always argues about rules, we know he’s a rules lawyer period.
Generally our group loves our games with all the different GMS too.
Good tips though
As a player, one of my favorite things to do is bring what people consider "roleplaying" into combat and exploration. For example, instead of going "for my action, cure wounds", I go "I'm going to run over to the halfling and pull out some healing salve and bandages and take a moment to wrap his leg up, you heal for (amount)". I don't do this every time (especially if my character is casting the same spell multiple times in a combat), but I've always enjoyed a bit of descriptive flavor. My characters also have different body language and different choices of words and cadences when speaking, though I don't do accents.
Out of the groups I've played with, I tend to have the most lack of initiative to do things, but I also tend to play characters that reflect that. I had a warlock soldier whose job was to protect his party members, so he rarely engaged in initiating things himself and preferred to just follow orders (I also helped write that adventure, so I wanted to keep the metagaming to a minimum and let the others make decisions). My current character is a Vedalken Artificer, so by nature, they're a lot more passive and stoic than the other party members. I think I generally lack initiative because I've been in so many groups where people are like "I'm bored, therefore I'm going to do the first stupid thing that pops into my mind (even if it ruins the campaign for everyone else at the table)" and that's happened in multiple groups with multiple people.
Well darn. I feel like most of those could apply to the game I run. Now I feel more insacure.
Great video Luke, thank you. I have a topic/question for you. What do I do when my players have complete disregard of any danger? Like they might be lvl5 party, I put a dragon or a lich in the distance, and instead of going the other way, they head straight to the tpk. Thank you
I think I heard him say a few times before, (and I agree) give painfully obvious warning signs in the game that show that their course of action is deadly, and they will likely perish. (For example, the party witness the bad guy destroy an entire army with minimal effort, or they encounter an experienced NPC on the way that warns them that they WILL die if they continue any further with their decision) And if you are feeling particularly generous when they are at the doorstep of this obvious danger, then perhaps still give them a last opportunity to escape or withdraw, (a tunnel underneath the city that leads to safety and is protected from the dragon’s breath) and if they still decide to go despite your obvious warnings and chances you’ve given them, then let them make the decision. Pull no punches and let them experience the consequences for their actions. Even if that means a tpk, if you always shield them from their own actions, it’s going against their player agency. Not your problem!
I have a "Homebrew/House Rule" that I created where Player Character Deaths/TPKs are nearly impossible except in extreme circumstances.
As for that Lich/Dragon thing if you simply make it that it disappeared & can't be found until they are high enough lvl to handle it, that might work.
Dude. I am so excited for your book. I haven't been so excited for an rpg product for so long. Especially that it is YOUR methodology. You are literally my number one resource in GM training since I started.
A clock can be another sign. If it's been 20 minutes and only 1-2 players have been talking, there's a good chance you've got a spotlight hog on your hands and need to manually shift the spotlight to another player at the table.
If players are arguing a lot about the rules, before you do anything else, read the rules for the spells and abilities you will be using next session. You as a DM have a duty to thoroughly understand the rules BEFORE you decide to bend the rules. If your creature is immune to being charmed, understand the difference between spell schools, like enchantment, and conditions, like charmed. If you have a player that plans on using two weapons at the same time, then you should read the rules on attacking with two weapons before the next session.
I want a bacon themed race…or magic item…or something.
I always roleplay my monsters during combat, thinking about what they would do. A wolf would fight completly different than an important general who hast thought many battles and is a good strategist.
But players always get to do what would be the best move, no matter if there character would actually do this.
Thanks Luke i think my game sucks because my group isnt the best at roleplaying and are quiet at times. It is hard to get people to roleplay i think. How do you fix that? I have tried everything at times i know of.
I'm always paranoid about this. We use a VTT (Shard Tabletop, highly recommend) and aren't on camera, so I dont see faces. They say they're having fun, but I dont really know. I dont think they would tell me unless it got really bad.
We use Shard, which I love, and then everyone also uses Discord so we can see each other. That is super helpful. Ironically, we had one player who would always sit off camera, so we could never see their face. The only time we would see them is when they got up to play with their pet. That is another sign a player isn't enjoying the game, when the player is interacting more with their pet than the other players!
@@frankpayne8281 We use discord too, but our cameras are turned off. I don't know why, we just started that way and never changed. Now seven months in, there's no reason to turn them on.
Rise of Skywalker wasn't all it could be, but it certainly had some good moments. For me, it took watching it the second time to appreciate them a bit more, because the pacing was so intense, for so long. On the 'fan service' side of things, seeing the Ghost in the final battle was awesome, as well as letting Lando ride to the rescue. The biggest 'hole' for me (and this is in all the new Star Wars) is that hyperspace travel no longer takes any time at all, which cuts down on the drama.
I wish they had one solid arc established for the three movies, and maybe that they had made Force Awakens as a stand alone "here are the new heroes, here is the fan service to the old ones" movie, launching into a proper trilogy...
Also, I have taken a much more laid back view of Star Wars movies etc after growing up very frustrated with the Prequels, only to have then watched them again as an adult, and realized they also had many redeeming qualities. Also remembering that Star Wars is Space Fantasy, not Science Fiction. If we want Science Fiction watch The Expanse. If we want laser sword wielding monk ninja warriors, Star Wars is where it's at. :)
Finally, TROS had some cool lightsaber battles, and the crazy space horse cavalry thing was perfectly aligned with all the silly crap from the old Extended Universe had.
Really love your content.
#9~~ Like when people making one line comments, _rather than going ahead & not just crowing about being First! in initiative_ but going ahead and using the period. Then following up with knowing generally what they want to accomplish with that First!. *As well as having a capital knowledge* of what their spell does or what enhancements they've been buffed.
I have 4 players all in their 50's and the "talkie, talkie" parts are almost always done in the 3rd person, no accents, no funny voices. They laugh when I do it but never try themselves. Sometimes it's just different styles or what everyone is comfortable with. This isn't contradictory to anything you said, just adding an observation. I run another game for my kids and there is alot more silliness. Might it be an old person thing?
When playing, I am guilty of #1 but it isn't because I'm not enjoying the game. As I get older (I'm 50 now and with nearly 35 years of gaming experience behind me) I find that my attention span isn't as good as it used to be. It's actually something I struggle with as a player these days. The rise of gaming aid app's on phones and laptops at the gaming table is to blame I think.
During the "new book!" plug, I was half-expecting Luke to devolve into a weird metaphor about brain smoothies or something.
No chapters? No thanks.
hmmm a lot of things are wrong with my game :((((. But is there something I might need to account for since my party is all new D&D players, not to mention I am also a first-time DM. Oh lorddd :(
rad vid!
I had to fire my Script Writer recently. He kept giving me dirty looks while I was talking to him and I just got sick of it and pulled out the windex and cleaned the mirror. It’s never easy to fire yourself.
Thank you for that rant. I'm a shite thespian but I do get into the story, lore, and everything else.
yooo Shadowrun 20th Anniv mention let's go
Shadowrun was fun, my friend Joe ran a one shot for us
3:03 I am that honest, I also critique things and give feedback
I have a player who has a common thread of actively playing an agent of chaos. The usual is "Since I can't win I'm going to sabotage whoever I hold responsible so they also don't win." As a DM that usually means me here. They are a long time friend so just not playing with them is not likely. Oh & not just them but a few more of the players are rule lawyers extraordinaire.
Combat is role playing IF you describe the combat. Nat 1s see the thrown dagger fly into the corner of the room. A maxed out damage roll is that ball of acid hitting the bard squarely in the face. A min damage roll is an arrow that just clips the cheek of your opponent. ("All that for a drop of blood.") Not the mention the killing blow...
The whole game is roleplaying. Descriptions & Dialogues can be as simple or as elaborate as the table prefers, but are just *one part* of the roleplaying experience.
I’m about to run my first game and my best friend doesn’t want to play more than one session a month. He’s super into the lore and wants to try a few campaign books but the other players want to play at least 2 sessions a month. He has the most free time out of all of us. I don’t get it.
One thing about the engagement part, don't feel too bad if the majority of your players have unmedicated ADHD and are constantly distracted. That's generally what happens at my table but I know that my players aren't doing it due to lack of interest.
"Blend their brains" "Mind-flayer! I meant metaphorically!"
Number 4: the main difference is arguing characters which is awesome, arguing players is bad of course
I agree with all of this with 1 caveat
Myself and my entire group are neurodivergent, most being autistic as well. I allow a lot of stuff that other tables may find not cool. Phones, side convos, etc. They need to stim and I'm okay with it as the DM as long as they're present when I call upon them. And so far they all have been.
I always tell my players to let me know if they aren't having fun, but I know that doesn't mean they'll necessarily tell me. When I pull off a plot twist everyone is invested, the roleplaying seems pretty consistent even from the quite players, and people talk about the game before and after so it gives me hope that I'm doing a good job. I have fun, but I always want to be sure everyone else is too.
I want that t shirt 🔥
*Star Wars Episode 9 'The Rise of Palpatine'
Fixed.
Hey Luke. Thank you for the video. I would love to talk to you about a potential screenwriting co-operation. Let me know if you are interested.
My players talk about the game beforehand and afterwards, then in the driveway for another hr. 👍
I wasn’t expecting that at all. Thought I’d see something like “signs you should leave that game”. Happily surprised to get this advice instead! Thanks!
The scriptwriter rants were a bit uncomfortable though, I couldn’t telle if they were jokes or not.
They were jokes. I write my own scripts. :D
So the follow up, how do you end a game that looks like the players give a shit about?
"hey guys it seems like most of us aren't enjoying this game so I think it's best that we just cut our losses and stop playing."
@@theDMLair it just sucks to know it's probably over even if they don't. Thanks for the reply Luke.