Engines of New York Central - Niagara
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2022
- The New York Central's "Niagara" steam locomotive has been described as the "ultimate steam locomotive". It's been touted as one of the most efficient and successful steam locomotives in North America. It was a 4-8-4 built with some of the most modern technology of the time. With power and speed on its side, the Niagara's were set to be a master class of steam locomotive design. However, being built just after the second World War would already mark their demise, and set in stone their short service life. In this episode, I talk about why the Niagara's were built, their brief yet successful service life, and their eventual fate.
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It's absolutely criminal that none of these things were preserved; they're amongst my favourite American steamers (alongside the PRR S1 and UP Challenger).
Americans in a nutshell
Well the central's check engineer by the 50s didn't want ANY steamers preserved, yet 4 are preserved: the two mohawks, a 0-6-0 I forgot the number of, and 999. Also just because a class wasn't preserved doesn't mean we're ruthless steam scrappers.
@@unionpacific8448 srsly?
Same goes for the Hudsons
not normaly a fan of american trains myself, but the NYC stuff is always cool especially the streamlined stuff
Awesome video. The New York Central Niagara is another wonderful steam locomotive. It’s no wonder that they were all scrapped, they could’ve been preserved along with the famous NYC Hudson’s. They look similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class 4-8-4’s like 844.
well tbh the nyc s class up fef class and milw s class were all built by alco.
Unlike the UP, the New York Central was heavily in the red, mostly from lost passenger train revenue. Scrap money was still money, so off they all went to the scrap yard. There were online cities interested in a donated locomotive. Not to be.
Great video! So happy we have "one Niagara preserved"! So sad that the actual ones never came to the 21st century... no matter! Can't wait for the S-Motor video! - Sid
To be honest the New York Central's "Niagara" engines will always hold a special place in my heart as the No. 1 NYC steam engines.
Amazing video! The Niagaras are easily one of my favorite steam locomotives, as they were exactly what the railroad needed. Too bad they were made kinda late into the steam era, if created earlier one may be in preservation.
Probably would've either had to be hidden under crates or sold to another railroad like thr two mohawks
seems like everyone had it out for them back then
Well the Hudsons were around since the 1930's and they were all scrapped too.
I really the ndem niagaras is made from preservation in mexico
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
Shame that none of the original New York Central Niagaras were preserved, not even one. They were such dependable steam locomotives. But it's very cool that a miniature live steam railway in England has a "Mini Niagara" in their collection. Nice video you put together of their history. By the way, passenger steam operations on the New York Central's Water Level Route went from Chicago to CROTON-ON-HUDSON, NY, not New York City. Croton-on-Hudson, NY to New York's Grand Central Terminal on the Water Level Route was handled by electrics at the time the Niagaras existed.
The NYC "Niagara" was a very handsome example of a 4-8-4 type steam locomotive, it is a true shame that none of these class s1b engines were saved from the scrap yards as I do wish that was the case. I would really enjoy to see a NYC rr "Hudson" and a "Niagara" type on display at a railroad museum today & these two locomotive classes are arguably the most famous of all the NYC rr system steam power.
Can't wait for the next one! Excellent job as always
These are my favorite NYC steamers. The S motors sound really cool too, can't wait to see that when it's finished. There's a few pictures I have in a book showing a few of those still in existence during the early years of Conrail.
I'm loving this serie, can't wait for more episodes!
New ENGINES OF NEW YORK CENTRAL nice like Niagara Falls ( or just me)
Such clean lines on these, absolutely beautiful locomotives.
Legend has it, the scrappers that were due to scrap 6015, the last one to go, it is claimed thet heard one night, chaisaw noises and mad laughter, one even claimed he heard: I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE, seconds befor the noises began, from where they stored her. The next day, they found her obliterated, crushed, in peices, CHAINSAWED!
Nice history video! 👍🏿
dam man i don't know how you do it
FINALLY! My favourite series on youtube! Continue, please, continue!
The epitome of steam locomotives. What a shame that none were preserved. But, as you stated, dieselization started in the East and moved west. I am very grateful to Union Pacific for preserving what they have preserved.
Omg your back :D
The Niagara's being scrapped is the most prime example of a steam engine class being done dirty for some quick cash.....rip the Niagara's 😔
But hey at least we got the niagaras of mexico
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 what are those 🤨
@@NW-gi1cp Series of 32 4-8-4 locomotives that were built by ALCO and Baldwin in 1946 for the NdeM. Officials for the NdeM were invited by ALCO to tour the Schenectady shops and see the ALCO-built Class QR-1s as they were being built. While there, the NdeM officials saw one of the NYC’s Niagaras being constructed, and were highly impressed. So the NdeM decided to name their 4-8-4s after the Central’s own 4-8-4s.
And thankfully, Perlman couldn’t scrap these Niagaras as the NdeM was very generous with steam preservation. A total 12 of the class were preserved. One of them, No. 3028, was acquired by the New Hope & Ivyland, and is in storage awaiting potential restoration to operating condition.
Way more New York Central Steam Locomotives would have been preserved if either Alfred E Pearlman would just chill and let them get preserved, or if the NYC hired somebody for president who liked preserving steam locomotives.
More ignorance by people pre-disposed to a certain opinion having zero basis in fact
good show
Can you do something about New York Central passenger train series? For the 20th century limited Empire State Express Knickerbocker New England states and others?
Love the thumbnail pic of the Niagara with the Michigan Central Station in the background! I grew up walking distance from there, at one time it was a center of activity in the neighborhood.
You know that station building is now owned by Ford, which is ironic, right?
@@krismangila1594 yep it’s going to be their Innovation and Mobility Campus along with housing leased office space.
Thanks Jared!!!!
I agree! I loved the steam engines but was born in 1951- I saw and rode behind a few like the 611 and 765 because my mother in law wanted to ride them in the 1980s! But most were gone by the late50s/early 60s when I was old enough to remember!
I've been looking forward to this video for a while, and it sure didn't disappoint! It should be noted that the biggest reason for the Niagara's extreme efficiency was the fact that they were cross-compound steam locomotives, meaning they got fresh steam to one cylinder, which then exhausted the steam to the other cylinder. I believe the steam was re-superheated on its way to the second cylinder. The Niagara is definitely one of my favorite locomotive designs of all time, right there with the Lima Berkshires.
The Niagaras were not compounds. The cylinders were of the same size.
Never knew the New York Central had a miniature model built for England
This is the Sonoma Traintown Railroad’s Miniature Model that is similar to the New York Central Hudson’s. Which is 5212.
Nice video, I had no idea about the duplex concept of the Niagara until this video came out.
On a side note, I have RWS Fan Series in the works that involves not just a Niagara being preserved, but the construction of the first C-1a duplex.
I absolutely love the Niagara's so much that I got Lionel's VisionLine Legacy model of one the 6019 which was a LCCA exclusive and I have all of Herron Rail's NYC dvd's which a few of em feature Niagara's in northern Ohio between Cleveland and Toledo and there's a feature in one of em where it has the Niagara racing the Pennsy.
LETS FREAKING GOOOOOOOOO NEW EONYC
I love the subtle use of TF2 music so much. You’re easily my favorite TH-camr
We’re getting the S Motors?! The T Motors must be on this series at some point then too!!! Let’s hope it get everyone aware of 278 and we can possibly eventually drag that poor thing out of those woods!!!
Good vid!
NIAGARA FALLS! Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch
There’s a Niagara at the New Hope and Ivyland yard (scenic railroad). It’s from a Mexican railway. I included it in my video of the New Hope on my channel. Awesome video!
Those are "Niagras" in name only. The only thing an NdeM QR-1 Niagra has in common with an NYC S-1 or S-2 Niagara is the wheel arrangement. The Mexican "Niagras"were named in honor of the NYC "Niagaras."
@@Alcofoamer ahh okay that’s very interesting. I thought it was crazy how they still built them at Alco and shipped them all to the boarder.
In 1955 my mother did take me to Louisiana on the L&N Hummingbird, behind a diesel, to visit her family! Don't recall much at 4 years old, but loved being on the train!
No doubt about it but the Niagara's are my favorite steam locomotives.
These locomotives were gorgeous and so economical. I've been waiting for this video for years and I'M SO HAPPY its out. OUTSTANDING JOB JARED! Keep up the amazing work buddy!
I really enjoy your videos on different railroads/railways, and your videos on the difference Amtrak locomotives like the F-40, and mainly the P-30CH POOCH, considering I myself am a huge fan of the P-30CH POOCH. I was wondering if sometime sooner than later, if you could do a video on the old Southern Railway, and the old Norfolk & Western Railway's ?
These became my favorite locomotive
They were the ultimate locomotive at the time, Until Norfolk and Western acquired the J Class
Honestly the Niagara and J Class are almost on equal, I say this because the Niagara's had 60,000+ Tractive Effort and Some J's had 73,000 tractive effort and 611 herself has a tractive effort of 80,000
The advantage the Niagara's had was the water scoop on the tender and didn’t need to stop
The J's had roller bearing side rods, self lubrication systems and bigger boilers
So the Niagara and the J Class could be considered the strongest of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement
The Niagaras also had roller bearing side rods, but the Js also had roller bearings on their valve gear. The Js, like the Niagaras, also ride very smoothly even at speed despite having comparatively small 70" drivers. Both are still easily the best of the 4-8-4 wheel arrangement.
Thanks, think I'll be combining the 2 designs into 1
@@09JDCTrainMan They’re both the best in terms of their different terrains. The J’s were vastly better climbers, and could easily sprint trains over 110 mph. At the same time, I don’t think they would be able to hold those speeds on the flat continuously. 610 only managed a maximum of 111 mph during its time on the Pennsy, but even with under half the mileage of the NYC, still managed to break its valve gear. The Niagara’s meanwhile were far more optimized for continuous, fast running. I don’t even know how they’d handle trains over long grades, being lightweight and having a serious drop in horsepower from the cylinders to the drawbar.
At least we can say the Niagara would most likely be able to run anywhere thanks to being so short. I think they stood about a foot shorter than the J’s, and most other 4-8-4’s for that matter
@@russellgxy2905 Terrains, yes. Also, from what I read, 610's valve gear only broke because she lost lubrication after traveling about 2,100 miles without refilling the lubricaters, not the 111 mph running. The fact that the J can even reach triple digit speeds at all with just 70" drivers is impressive to me. But yes, the Niagara should be faster by default due to having larger driving wheels. Still, it's true, the J is best 4-8-4 in the mountains while the Niagara is the best 4-8-4 on the flats.
Sad that the NYC had the best 4-8-4 (at least for flat terrain) then things got complicated and they had to destroy almost everything to save the company that ended up bankrupt anyway
Great vid! Really wished a Niagara was preserved. Maybe a trust group (like the PRR T1 Trust) could rebuild one or a Hudson.
Edit: DAMN AL PEARLMAN chain in the comments pls.
Darn it Pearlman
@@AndrewTheRocketCityRailfan4014 lol
I agree, I would expect the Niagara. I know most train enthusiast wants the Hudson first, but I'm dying to hear if the new build Niagara would happen, but hudson would go first. DAMN, AL PEARLMAN FOR HAVING ALL NIAGARAS, AND HUDSONS SCRAPPED!!! I'm not blaming those who wants the new build hudson first, I'm blaming Al Pearlman!
@@davidstrawn9272 DAMN AL PEARLMAN
The 'damn al pearlman' comments make you people look stupid and ignorant of what the facts actually are. "Books are the everbearing lamp of accumulated wisdom" not internet chat room BS
I hope one day, someone will make a replica/new example of a NYC Niagara. They were truly awesome locomotives.
I absolutely love the Niagaras
Me too. They are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class 4-8-4’s, even UP 844.
@@nathancorcoran5347 I saw that
@@BESTISD what do you mean?
@@BESTISD did you mean that you realized that they are similar to each other?
@@nathancorcoran5347 yeah, I saw that they where similar in design.
I'm pretty sure there's atleast some Niagara number plates still in existence, I saw one for sale on Ebay once, and I think there's one or more at the National New York Central museum.
I love the Niagaras. I wish the New Build Niagara would happen, I know most of train fans want the New Build NYC Hudson to happen first, and I don't blame them either, I blame Al Pearlman for not preserving one or few of NYC Niagaras and Hudsons! I would like a New Build Niagara to happen, We have Daylight 4449 and J class 611 preserved since they're both streamlined 4-8-4's, while a NYC Niagara and Union Pacific's never retired FEF-3 844 were very similar! I wish NYC have a chairman like the one Southern Pacific (that preserved 4449), Norfolk and Western (that saved 611), or the Union Pacific (that not only saved four FEF's, but kept running 844) have.
Here's hoping for a new build. I'd pay gladly to be on the first run, such a beautiful design. Maybe one day in the future we can get a T1, 844, and a Niagara together for an event.
A Niagara newbuild would be nice, but a Dreyfus Hudson would be better.
A Chad of steam locomotives.
One tid bit i heard i believe in the sunday river vids, the narrator mentioned the niagras wheels were so well balanced with the siderods (eg* the footage of people pulling it) that it was balanced for 120mph!
as a big PRR fan, they are my favorite NYC engine, fast, powerful and useful.
The number plate of Niagara locomotive #6012 is on display at the New York Central Railroad Museum in Elkhart, Indiana.
It is sad how the New York Central scraped most of their steam locomotives but at lest we have models
Its ended :/ i think
@@Arturobrito0502 not quite, he has to do the GE P32-8BWH.
@@nathancorcoran5347 oh right
@@nathancorcoran5347 he also need to redo the genies locomotives
@@DRGW492 That’s Right.
hey jared i have a cool idea !
you should complete engines of new york central part 5!!!
The whistle at 1:46 is from UP 836 and 833 on possibly one of the UPs last doubleheaders
you and High Iron are my go to for american rail history
Very cool I like New York Central railroad
I have a Broadway Limited Imports HO model of number 6004. These engines are simply beautiful and a shame none were saved. also couldnt help but notice the Team Fortress 2 background music XD
It's time again guys! Sit down on the circle carpet!
4-8-4s are my favorite type of steam locomotives
A yes the niagara one my of my favorite streamline locomotives ever
“I want that steam engine!” Alfred E Perlman, president of the New York Central and Western Pacific Railroads
Question. What were the, as my grandfather called them, "elephant ears", on the front of the engine for? I'm guessing streamlining of some kind or just style points?
Elephant ears is just a nickname for smoke deflectors. As the name implies, they prevent smoke from obscuring the engineer & fireman's vision as well as preventing cinders from flying into their faces.
There's a video with a recording of the Niagara's horn. They were a bit more high pitched than the GG1's horn, and the whistle had deep minor triad chords with musical notes A-C-E
An absolutely beautiful engine that was never saved for preservation unfortunately.
#NYCS1bTrust
We need this to happen.
Nice video, but the Niagara’s, as did most other late eta NYC steam power, used a Nathan 6 chime whistle.
I love it
Mark my words, if I EVER come into an absolutely disgusting amount of wealth in the future, I will create a Niagara Engine Trust and I WILL build a new Niagara locomotive.
Also the j3a Dreyfuss Hudson
@@dangerboyproductions1223 look guy it takes a while to do a lot of things, let’s try and be realistic here.
Ok
Also i'm a 14 year old ok
@@dangerboyproductions1223 noted
4-8-4 is my favorite steam locomotive wheel arrangement
Same
4-6-4 for me
Great video. I have a big favor to ask. Can you do one on the Sunset Limited (San Antonio area) and Texas Eagle ( also in San Antonio area)? Those 2 routes are close to my home but I know nothing about Amtrak, except for what I see on your videos. I know I can research all this stuff but it's more enjoyable and interesting while you narrate the history.
Perhaps the best owner of the best wheel arrangement of all time…
My favorite locomotives
If you guys run those on trainz from K&L
They can run very hard
Cool
I would love steam locomotives make a come back to
LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY FAVOURITE LOCOMOTIVE OF NYC
Oh my giddy aunt. The NYC's extreme high pressure 4-8-4 featured at 0:44-1:00. They have should have learnt from the LMS's own 'Fury' fiasco in 1930 when a pipe burst... and killed someone.
In the intro I see a very familiar station in my homestate of Michigan and btw I live in st.clair shores mi
I have had models of every engines of new York central engine including the S-1
Very good and informative video!
Nvm there called that.
I thought there were some Niagara’s remaining. Hmm.
Why is it that beautiful machinery cannot be preserved
The Niagaras handled 1000-ton trains at speeds up to 100mph, at least on tests, and before 1948. It was about that time that the Interstate Commerce Commision limited trains without cab signals to around 80 mph
En mi ciudad en el centro de México aún tenemos una locomotora Niágara de nacionales de México, no está operativa pero se encuentra en un estado aceptable
R.I.P. NYC Niagaras.😢🚂
Great video! Kinda sad that no Niagara’s got preserved.
At least we have the ones of mexico
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702cierto
After watching the History in the Dark video in which Alfred Perlman was depicted as a chainsaw-wielding tyrant, this was nice video.
A great engine
I do get why the Hudson’s and Niagaras went extinct. NYC was in bad financial shape because of that stupid overregulation and non rail competition. On top of that Alfred E Perlman couldn’t be lenient on preservation because his railroad needed to get as much scrap value from their steam locomotives as possible. Either you buy that locomotive at scrap value(such as 3001), or you watch it get scrapped. It was a sacrifice that was needed to help keep the railroad afloat in the long run, eventually getting the railroad back in shape before 1962. That was what ultimately led to Perlman allowing his railroad to give 2933 to the NMOT.
If penn central happened any earlier then these would probably still be in service as a cost saving measure. :P
I wish the Niagara’s where preserved
Yeah, but atleats we got the Niagaras of mexico
@@SuperFoxyRailwayProduction6702 I know. The NYC Niagara’s are amazing. They are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives, like Union Pacific 844.
@@nathancorcoran5347 your kinda Right
@@amtrakp4242 It’s quite true, the New York Central Niagara’s are similar to the Union Pacific FEF-class locomotives and Union Pacific 844 is one of them. To be honest. We all know that.
Can someone explain to me what is the advantage difference between wheels arrangements?
I.E. same driving wheel but different leading or trailing wheel : 4-8-4 vs 4-8-2
Or same leading and trailing wheel but different driving wheel : 4-6-4 vs 4-8-4.
There are three main advantages of 4-8-2/4s over 4-6-2/4s:
Greater acceleration
Bigger boilers
Larger Ashpans.
Eight driving wheels are going to move more faster than six, it can support a longer and taller boiler and so has more steaming capacity and a four wheel rear truck is going to allow for a much bigger ash pan and firebox. So it can burn more fuel and a lower grade of it.
The downside is that the engine is very long, very ridged and you need to be sure it’ll have work to do for it to be economical.
also by the way it's sad to see something that my favorite stream liners to be scrapped because of some diesel's but you know what they are what they say modernization is coming this way but the niagara will always be my favorite streamliner no matter it was scrapped and turn it to a miniature one it was always still be my favorite niagara the niagara road to the future
The Niagara was no streamliner, the Dreyfuss Hudson is an example of a streamliner.
This is the next engine that needs to have a trust behind it to build a replica
The vid in 3:33: They are equipped with roller bearings, so they are easy to move.
Tomy, Ltd: *took note for a future line of toys*
It's impressive, but the PRR Class M1 'Mountain' was more powerful, not to mention mixed traffic. It's a pity that more weren't ordered, and a shame that none were streamlined.
So the PRR M1 was arguably better than the NYC mohawk then?
@@sangheiliwarrior86 I would say so. The M1 had a heavier tractive effort, and comparable speed. She was designed as an express mixed traffic engine, meant to haul heavy trains at high speed. The only reason why it wasn't employed much as an express engine was the electrification of the Eastern region of PRR. With the mighty GG-1 electric engines taking over top-line expresses east of the Appalachians, most of PRR's passenger locomotives were relegated to Central and Western regions. With so many surplus K4s and E-series engines at the ready, there was no perceived reason to use the M1A for anything other than express freight service. They did see limited use from time to time, but nowhere near as much time as was expected of it, and far less than it deserved.
Toe to toe against a Mohawk, the M1 would at the very least keep up, and could handle steeper gradients much easier.
@@kyleclark4449 Yeah, but that's just a given. The NYC didn't have as many grades to attend to like the PRR did, which is why most PRR steam locomotives make better mountain climbers. The NYC wanted their steam locomotives to be flatland racehorses, not mountain climbers. Don't get me wrong tho, I'm both a Mohawk and M1 fan.
@@09JDCTrainMan I agree. I like both engines, and each has its own pros and cons. The Niagara is built for speed, able to fly along the Water Level Route like a racehorse. It's also more glamorous.
The M1 is a better hill climber, because it had to be to allow it to tackle the Appalachians. It's more powerful, and more versatile. But, the PRR rarely used it for passenger trains, because it had no perceivable need for it.
The Niagara was a top of the line express passenger engine that could also handle fast freights. The M1 was an express mixed traffic engine that had the potential to be a great passenger hauler, but never had to. Both are impressive machines, and it's a shame that NYC never thought to preserve one.
This video is approved by Rodney Kantowski.
Is it me if does the Niagara looked similar to up 844
Can you do a NYC 2-8-4
A wise man once said.
I WANT THAT STEAM ENGINE!!!!!! BRRRRZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTT