ROVERS LAST HOPE! - The Rover R30 Story - The Car That Killed Rover
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2023
- The Rover R30 was Rover's last hope and was the car along with its siblings that killed Rover Group for good. It is also alleged that BMW "stole" this project in the end to create the BMW 1 Series. In this video we explore its development and its place in the proposed lineup of the Rover 75 or R40, the Rover 35, Rover 55 and the Mini or R50 as a replacement for the Rover 800, Rover 400, Rover 200.
We also discuss whether or not this did kill MG and Rover's future as a volume car manufacturer and whether it really was yet another missed opportunity for the British car industry.
ARonline is the best source for everything: www.aronline.co.uk I referenced them and their respective sources within this video, nothing however beats reading their informative articles so please visit their site.
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The car at the end Rov 123 has a AlfaRomeo look about it and am sure would of been a great success if they got the build quality up there. The 75 was the best company car my father in law had in his 30 years of driving Ford's and that says a great deal.
Great video. I worked on R30 but I don't remember the engines being longitudinally mounted, I'm sure they were transversely mounted. BMW always wanted Rover to produce front wheel drive cars to ensure a difference to BMWs. Despite lots of effort, Rover struggled to get the costs down to achieve the rate of return BMW wanted from them. Rover couldn't charge as much for a car as BMW could, so re-engineering the project as a BMW and charging a BMW price premium made sense. Never heard the project was offered to the Phoenix 4 though.
Clarkson and May killed Rover. The 75 was the real last roll of the dice and is good car. May's review of it is a travesty. Every week, when Top Gear was at peak popularity those two would slag off Rover. They both pass themselves of as great patriots... This is an interesting video about something that didn't make it out of the gate. I feel annoyed every time I see a new Peugeot, Citroen, Renault or Fiat on the UK roads as Rover even at it's worst was better than the stuff those guys kick out. Now we have the new dawn of the electric car, and UK motor industry is in full speed decline. Clean air zones and such will drive demand, barely any UK made cars to meet it. BMW are offshoring the UK production of the Electric Mini to China worsening the situation still further. The UK government needs to get a grip on what's happening with such a major industry sector
They certainly didn’t help nor did majority of the British press at the time for that matter. I definitely agree with you there re the industry it’s a damn shame.
@@tomdrives Yeah good point about the rest of the media being on the bandwagon. It's really curious how self destructive the UK is
May defo did . Clarkson said he liked it first. Both weirdos anyway.
The rover 75 was awful it had the useless k series engine and was fwd it should of been rwd and used bmw engines then it would of sold well with the better quality parts
@@bmwman1981 Sorry mate, you don't know what you're talking about. It had BMW engines in the diesels and was a RWD capable platform there was an RWD V8 (petrol) version available with an engine from a Mustang. It did sell well until the Top Gear constant mauling stalled sales of all Rovers
I love mg/r cars I currently own a zs180 ,25 1.8auto,streetwise and an mgf I have recently acquired a 1 series and I’m going to fit rover grills and badges just because I can 😂
😂 legend
tom when you get to my age and see what this country has thrown away you will look back and be doubly shocked, great vid though
I’d like to say I can’t imagine it getting worse but….
@@tomdrives but then you would be driving an r30 or the 75 variations lol
I worked for the rover group at Land Rover .I remember we were coached to longbridge and had a presentation of the r30
Yes more please Tom, very interesting videos keep up the good work .
Thanks Neil! Will do
Another great video, you will be on 10k soon. R50 video would be great 👍
Thanks Neil! I’d love that wouldn’t that be amazing! Yes I’ll make that one. I’ve got another in the works but the R50 one is a huge video
I think if the Phoenix four had piled resources into the prototypes and not the Le-mans, then they may have had a chance at survival. Ultimately it's now all hearsay.
Funny I remember thinking at the time, in years to come they'll be talking about the rover take over and sale. For a young man, Im amazed at your dedication, documenting the history for others in the future to look back on, given that the young'ns now probably haven't heard of the Rover brand . Brilliant 👍
Thank you, I appreciate it. It’s my pleasure I’ve loved rovers since I was about 10 so I’ve always wanted to do this, TH-cam didn’t exist at the time but here we are now
@Tom // Drives
Cars are like music, you have to appreciate all genres and accept that they're is good and not so good within them..
Not all young'ns are of that mindset D. Dad.
This D. Dad can confirm. During my two sons' schooldays, twenties and now mid-late thirties, they are long term owners of both MGs and Rovers. The family took THREE Post-Abingdon built Longbridge cars to last year's excellent MG-40 event at Toddington in Gloucestershire's Preserved railway last July. A well attended event for both car and Rail Transport enthusiasts. Lots of superb MGs there. The three MGs we took included the oldest Longbridge built MG. An X-Reg MG Metro. My wife's MG ZS we bought new in 2003 and my own MG ZT saloon with Mustang V8 Power.
Since my son's school days when my older son saw a neglected MG Metro in a front garden from the passing school bus. Can we go and ask if they want to sell it Da? Yes they did and I got it started straight away. His first of many car purchases. My younger son has a Rover for thirteen years. We used it today to collect my MG ZT-T 1.8T workhorse from the Free MoT Re-Test. It passed.
My sons have a wide range of friends of similar ages all very keen MG and Rover owners. One in his low twenties has his own TH-cam stream which is one of the best from one so young.
They all have some pristine fine examples of both MGs and Rovers from early 75 top spec saloons to an MG ZT260 V8 one bought in his twenties and still has it.
Not all youngsters were brainwashed about MGs and Rovers by so many UK Auto Journalist hacks always in knee-jerk negativity where Indigenous home car product were concerned. With old farmer Clarkson now up on the Cotswold Grasslands in the spearhead of that anti MG and Rover negativity. Assisted by his rodent sidekick blurting out on BBC's Top Gear broadcast to the World.
MGFs are Rubbish!
Only in the land of the increasingly self inflicted. It shows too and is still harmfully ongoing.
Great and very interesting video. Now subscribed 👍🙂
Thanks Tim, appreciate you being here
Love to hear you talk about the MG ZR/S/T
Could you make a video about whether Rover could make a comeback?
It's not a completely wild theory, and has been a topic of conversation in the past.
Jaguar Landrover group do own the rights to the brand, and you could argue that there's a gap in the market for that mid level range of vehicles. Very interesting.
Sounds like a plan Adam I’ll get that made next one is another prototype video but I’ll see if I can fit that in as I’ve had the same idea floating on my end for a while now
@@tomdrives amazing.... Will look forward to that one, thank you 😍
If the Rover nameplate made a return it would be down to Jaguar Land Rover to bring it back, as they own the nameplate.
A great video I own a BMW 1 Series myself and it’s brilliant 👍
Excellent Video,
I’ve not heard before that the Phoenix group got offered the design?
Bmw took Rovers R&D department in the sale, so Rover had no chance to develop new vehicles, I heard the Phoenix group tried to develop the R30 with an outside r&d company with limited success and missing plans so nothing came of it.
But I wasn’t in the room at the time so who really knows the truth
Reminds me of a Renault megane, loving the content
Thanks Michael!
Great video as always. If MG Rover had the R30 and the Mini, they could and would have survived, certainly much longer. BMW' invested heavily in them, and they were well within their rights to take them when they sold off MG Rover. Unfortunately this left MGR high and dry.
My friend was an apprentice pattern maker at Longbridge, we were about 19, I remember him being very excited and telling me when they unveiled this (I think the 75) and the Mini prototypes internally. They put the cars together on display and invited all the workers. The new Mini is the success story that never happened for Rover. I'm not sure if R30 would have sold as well as BMW 1 series or been a true golf rival but the new Mini was hot AF, Retro was cool and they nailed it, it would have sold just as well for Rover maybe even more because enthusiasts hated the BMW Mini.
Great video bmw saw a chance with the R30 and wanted the mini brand. unfortunately the powerhouse Clarkson and certain motoring press were massive players in the demise of rover back in the day. As a huge rover fan I've owned many and despite peoples take every single one I've owned have been reliable comfortable cars never had massive issues mot time I've travelled the length and breadth of Britain and Europe and never had a single issue. the 1.4 k series the 2ltr t series and the bullet proof unrefined L series diesel are all brilliant engines. despite the k series and it's head gasket issues those k-series were a class leader.
Excellent video! I agree that there are more than a number of similarities between the R30 and the 1 series - I didn’t know about the longitudinally mounted engine - that certainly would have made RWD much simpler. It’s a pity that the Phoenix 4 couldn’t broker a deal to buy the R30 from BMW - but if BMW had already started to convert it into the 1 series, why would they sell the R30 design? I think the decision by the MG Rover to go racing was governed simply by money, or lack of, and a need to present an exciting image for the new MG cars range. It almost succeeded - the MG Z cars were well received, and sold fairly well - but they were aging, and the lack of new products ultimately finished MGR.
Thanks Simon, BMW originally didn’t want to produce the 1 series with the fear it would degrade the brand. After seeing the success of the A class and the A3 that is what is believed to have resulted in the revisit and production of the 1 series
I was as sad as anyone that they failed but by the end the investment needed to comply with ever stricter emissions and crash safety based on circa just 200k units didn’t compute, this business is totally scale driven, just look at VW group platform sharing as the template. With the Rover brand being damaged goods I agree MG would have been the best way forward. If they had survived this the current monumental investment to go electric would be the final nail.. sadly we’ll never know
I’m always confused with the R30 and the 1 Series link. I can see the resemblance, but I was under the impression that the 1Series was mostly based on a 3 Series chassis, hence why the 1 Series is quite long up front. The sketch shown in the video (which appears to be linked to not meeting requirements, or clash detection issues) looks to have a horizontally opposed layout, as you can see the exhaust run done the rear of the engine bay.
Maybe the truth is somewhere between the two, R30 A pillar back was transformed into the 1 Series, apart from the chassis, which was taken from a chopped down 3 Series?
Good video, keep them coming!
Read the Ar Online article about the R30. Bmw where trying to sell the design for years before changing the whole A pillar forward to suit rwd. That's why the early 1 series rear legroom until facelift is absolutely abysmal.
The Bavarian asset strippers needed two small cars added to their otherwise gas guzzler model line up or face punitive EU measures as a result. The "Bini" and R30 / I-Series provided that much needed balance. "Clever" accounting using the massive R&D costs of those two cars against Rover group resulted in the Bavarian Outfit's top banana saying things like ... and here I use their very words.
"The English Patient"
Never give a mug Nation a second break. We go to great lengths to fall for the proverbial three card trick. Ongoing to this very day.
Great work Tom as always. If only they could have succeeded in producing the R30. Just buy a BMW 1 series and rebadge it lol. I really hate the R50, if it had been a Rover car i'd still hate it.
I've always had a theory ... bmw had the R30 and it wasn't too hard to become the 1er but with a RWD set up that BMW were known for. The mini presented an opportunity to play around with FWD if it flopped, the bmw badge isn't affected, but if it was a success.. it paved the way for bmw to move to offer fwd, final test bed the woeful 2 series active tourer before going all in on the latest gen 1er and using the test beds to offer fwd. Crazy theory or totally possible?
I am old enough to remember when BMW, AUTO-UNION and VW were in dire near terminal financial straights back in the day. Unlike another nation which shall remain nameless when their indigenous auto industry was in that position, back then the German, Government, its people, business and commercial sectors supported their struggling indigenous car industries at all levels and in every direction. The rest as they say is history.
Now that nameless nation's people many of which form long queues to pay over the odds for German automotive product especially BMW are no longer able to buy a British car from a British owned manufacturer. Even Morgan is now in foreign financial control. All those still producing cars here have warned long ago, that when it suits them, not us, they will up sticks and leave or move production elsewhere. That after huge financial taxpayer funded inducements to set up production here on greenfield sites denied to "In House" UK companies.
Credit must go to Honda when they torpedoed our harmful to the Nation mainstream media and elements of the Westminster FAKE NEWS classes insisting that Honda switching production elsewhere and leaving was due to the Nation voting OUT back in June 2016. The Honda top brass warned long ago that their ever changing business plans could mean they leave long before any Referendum was arranged. That they confirmed again subsequently when their final business decisions were made. Still the harmfully clueless blame OUT for that.
The asset strippers needed TWO small cars to offset the imbalance of their then current all "gas guzzler" range of models or risk massive financial penalties. The Bini and R39 / I-Series very conveniently avoided those punitive penalties.
All that means I could no longer have the pleasure of buying a new MG or Rover from Longbridge or Cowley as I have had the pleasure of doing several times in the past. More if I count company cars when I was allowed to chose. In so doing, providing and sustaining good jobs and careers for many of my fellow country folk.
I could of course buy a new MG anytime now as several of my neighbours down my street have done. They like them when I ask how they are getting on with them. Only favourable comments. I have no qualms about that except for one. Those MGs were made in the PRC.. The Peoples' Republic of China. Not here in the UK.
This nation appears now to excel only in getting far too many important things wrong. The above being merely one example of a multiplicity of wrong decisions making. There are far too many others. June 23rd 2016 a very rare exception.
Only in the land of the increasingly self-inflicted. ,,, :sigh:
The Rover 55 looked beautiful
I had the chance to sit in the green RDX60 that was a panic prototype after the R30 was stolen by BMW, back at Longbridge itself back in 2018.
As part of a private tour of the factory we where playing around the Tourer Concept vehicle, the 2.3 SD1, the 3 mgf prototypes (pr1, pr2 and pr3) along with the RDX60.
Now this was the "Astra" lighted RDX60, I managed to get the driver door open, jumped in and discovered it was a cut and shunt mg zt in trophy blue under the bodywork.
I even got the bonnet open and we saw the kv6 2.5 (we check for 2.0 injector blue markings) but we never had enough time to see what varient of 2.5 kv6 it was.
R30 would have been a fantastic car, but the writing was on the wall as soon as they had planned the FWD tritec mini engine as that was obvious they where using Rover money to make their own cars.
Never knew that Collin wish I wasn’t a foetus back then would’ve loved to have seen them. Sounds like a great opportunity
I´ve read some rubbish in my life, but your comments.....
Ok I would like to see the planning and production of the MG6 turbo the first one which was launched in 2011, and also the rover 400
The HHR or R8 400?
@@tomdrives 400
And BMW wanted 4x4 technology for the X5
When you look at all the images of R30, all the way back to the TCV, you may conclude that there was no clear platform strategy/ability to produce a winning car right from the start. You can't underestimate BMW internal strife and politics. The Phoenix directors had some good ideas, eg MG ZR and ZS, but wasted a lot of time and effort, eg MG SV. Worth also remembering Rover's poor marketing, eg suddenly reducing predicted 75 volumes from 100k/year to 25k/year, and Pichetsreider's notorious speech at the 75 launch.
I think BMW knew what they were doing, having retained the R30 and R50 programmes.
What about the dormant BL brands BMW kept hold of like Triumph? To me, that's one way of preventing a name like that coming back and going toe to toe with the BMW Z4. In fact, the Z3 Coupe in concept was a German GT6.
My thoughts as well,
Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. The BTCC is the reason many of us became Volvo 850 fans for life. Racing is a good idea.
I can see the rational behind going racing in the case of the MG relaunch
Where did you get the Maestro poster from that's on the wall behind you, love to have a copy of it?
It used to be in an AR dealer on display I’m told, I’m trying to get it properly scanned in so will post when I’ve got that sorted
I dont believe MG Rover was ever going to survive.
As you say, Le mans was a mistake even though the cars were superb.
Money was also thrown at an assault on speed records at Bonneville which i thought was madness.
These ventures to me appear to be people off on a jolly while the business crumbles around them.
These exploits were not in any way connected with the cars and buyers in their market segments.
I understand the historical significance but thats as far as the idea should have gone while the ship was sinking.
Hey Tom, I have an MG ZT 260 on blocks in suspended animation since 2009 ( 23k miles ) in my mountain house garage in Czech Republic. I’m wanting to bring it back to sell do you think the best thing is to sell at auction or set price on eBay?.
Auction, reserve at 5k minimum
Is it RHD
@@tomdrives yes, pristine as it rolled out of the factory...
That would go very quickly! Are you familiar with the 260's group online? Also what year is the car?
@@majoriix 2003...RF53OEO
I hope they revive Rover sometime in the not too distant future
I’d love it but it depends what as, it’d be nice if it went under the JLR umbrella but that would cannibalise Jaguar sales
Very much a crying shame as the mini range a n
Massive sucess
Imo BMW had their sights on Mini and pretty much mini alone, it has been a huge seller for them and they hung into rover long enough to get the rights to it. Them and the Phoenix shit houses fuc*ked the company big style unfortunately and for their own gain (IMHO)
Mini pleased 😁
Anyone on here watch project nigel or nitro silvia channel
I watch both, great guys and great channels
@@tomdrives I think the TH-cam algorithm thingy pinged your channel to me because of them channels,
BMW ruined rover so they could secure the mini brand and Cowley factory..
And now they’re potentially moving it to China well the future of the Mini anyway
There's already a Chinese copy of the BMW mini so just maybe they are finally showing they care only about sales over quality??
Sadly soon all gas cars will be banned in EU and USA.
Only new gas cars
This is all "If's and butt's" ... IF my granny had wheels she would have been a bus!
The REALITY is this..... The British car industry had been dying since the 1970s in the BL era with crappy cars such as the Allegro and Marina
The British public eventually figured out they had a BETTER choice of where to spend their money...
Let's borrow Dr. Who's TARDIS and go back to 1986... Which car would you buy if you were buying a brand new car in 1986.....A MK2 VW Golf or an Austin Maestro ...EXACTLY!
Can you blame the British public for "Turing their back" on shitty Austin/Rover cars?
The petrol engines still had the HGF (Head Gasget Fail) issue at around the 60,000 Mile mark ever right up to the bitter end in 2005.
Good riddance to bad rubbish...
What killed Rover was the K series engine. So bad, it brassed off every loyal owner. Shame. With a new K less model line up, and reasonable build quality, they would have survived and prospered. BMW’s growth and reputation post Rover, showed they were right ( and ruthless ). If you are looking for a future project, how about MG resuming UK production? They need an offshore factory, for their expanding ( and relatively successful ) model line up. For marketing reasons, the UK, would make them look more credible than perhaps an Eastern Europe base. Or, has Brexit fu*#ed that up completely? An interesting proposition.
now what we have got are brexit did theres no way are corntree can be taken over by other corntree's