As the owner of a former Rover 200, a 1996 P-registered 214i model, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I always thought the last model 200 was a very unlucky car, suffering from overpricing at launch and the decision to aim it at the wrong market segment. It was a cracking wee car and had it been aimed at the Fiesta/Corsa/Polo market it would have cleaned up as it was light years ahead of those cars at the time. The 25 Streetwise was a car ahead of time if you consider the market now, as it anticipated the fad for chunky SUVs that saturate the market now. When it came out people laughed and snorted at it but if you look at cars like the Fiesta Active and Focus Active, these are the sort of cars that the Rover was 15 years ago.
Had 96 200 same feelings, fantastic I had the same type of other car from big names but the wee touches and handling on the 200 wouldn't be beat by them. A Fn bloody damn shame. I would have bought into a new rover mini but its a bmw not the same heritage. Rover would have been around today.. Gone are the big days of splendid British motoring only available through classic ownership now. God bless you Rover and British Leyland.... Is there anything we make nowadays? 😥
@@chuckydreal9040 - I worked for an automotive consultancy in the late 80s and one of my projects involved working with Rover people at Canley and Cowley. As a result, I was given full Rover badged kit - blazer, tie, shirt, even overalls (which I've still got in resplendent maroon livery!) ... plus a succession of Rover cars. I was initally given a Montego, but that was quickly followed by a couple of Rovers - a 200 and a 400 - the latter being a top range 416 GTi. Lovely car and as you said ... streets ahead of the competition in the form of tinny Fords, Vauxhalls, Renaults and Peugeots of the time. Definitely on a par with BMW, but I felt better put together. The paint finish for example, was like smooth glass, thanks to the new advanced paint plant @ Cowley. Much missed company. So badly managed. It was a crime they let if fail.
As someone who was actually onsite at Rover eating a dog roll with a cup of tea in the Conformity of Production Emissions dept' crew room, when when BA sold a majority stake to BMW, I feel I can comment here. I can vouch that the Honda guys onsite were absolutely stunned, shocked and gob smacked at the decision. The Honda tech' support guy I was liaising with was asked to immediately clear his desk and leave the site by a very embarrassed John Gilbert (Gilbert Matthews, I forget now) the then manager. All other Honda personnel were also asked to leave....an incredibly awful experience to be there and see long standing working relationships broken this way. Honda did try and purchase a controlling stake but, BA played hardball, by continually changing the goal posts to the point where Honda asked for month break in negotiations.....within a few weeks BA had sold out to BMW. People need to remember that Honda had a lot more to offer Rover and it's employees than BMW ever did and the working relationship was never the same again.
I remember the Top Gear team slagging off the Streetwise. They couldn't get their heads around the idea of a 'normal' car having 'off-road' styling cues, such as the increased ride height and boddy cladding, if they're not actual off-roaders. Not long after, many car companies adopted this theme and the Crossover market really took off. So, the Streetwise was ahead of its time, however the 3 Top Gear presenters, unsurprisingly, weren't.
Everything in this video is correct EXCEPT one major flaw: the K-Series engine. I worked for late BL and then Rover in the 90s and I can assure you the K-Series engine was anything other than 'plucky'. I was unreliable and dogged with head gasket failure and overheating. We would have to replace the HG after having the warped cylinder heads re-machined on MANY cars. The 1.4 engine wasn't so bad but the 1.6 and 1.8 versions were a pain. I am of a very strong opinion (as are other technicians from the time) that the warranty claims made by dealers against Rover had a massive financial impact to Rover's demise. I know many will say this is incorrect but I can assure you it's not.; we once had 20 K-series cars waiting for skims and gasket's in one month; as did many others. The Honda engine was radically more reliable.
A good friend of mine was working at Swindon at the time of the Bae takeover and he said the Honda upper management were insulted that they had not been offered Rover by the government. My dad had a 216 for about 10 years and he liked it as it was cheap and reliable.
Very true about Honda wanting rover. When the triumph acclaim came out and the tie in with Honda happened there was an agreement that Honda got first option if rover ever came up for sale. BMW bribed the people behind the sale and Honda got shafted
People need to stop slagging off the BMW era. Bernd Pischetsrieder gave them capital and a total hands off approach to do what they wanted, but after Simpson and Towers left there was another management vacuum and it all went to shit. Bernd Pischetsrieder got the push from the whole group and the next CEO got tough. Not surprising. If Rover had got its shit together and had stopped designing cars Inspector Morse would want to drive with marketing based around 'Britishness' perhaps they really would be here today. If 'Britishness' was a thing in car buying then people wouldn't be buying French and German cars in their droves. Instead of harping on about Britishness they should have loaded their cars with every gizmo going to give a USP. Ok Rover is a bit pricier but you get so much more as standard. Should have also chased a younger audience with the kind of trim levels younger people wanted. Who under the age of 70 what's a car to look like a sailboat on the inside? Both Jaguar and Rover got stuck in this ridiculous 'retro rut' thankfully Jaguar saw sense before it was too late.
Yes I wonder what was in it for British Aerospace? a defence company buying a car company? As for Honda, I know from experience that the Japanese put a lot of emphasis on honour and respect so must have felt very disappointed by what happened.
@@BigCar2Enjoying your documentaries any chance of some Rootes group by any chance, Dad had a few; Hillman Imp, Hillman Hunter, Hillman Avenger, Talbot Samba. Really enjoyed the Granada and Sierra videos - Dad was "told" ;-)
@@richardcrossley5581 I have a playlist on my channel page with videos from other TH-camrs. There's a good Hillman Imp one there. As for the others, yes, but I don't know when.
I remember as a young man, in the mid to late 90s; Rover made some really cool cars I wished I could have owned. There were some lovely sporty 200 models. Especially the coupe 'tomcat'. What a cool looking car! They're so sought after even today. And I love the look of the MG ZT. I know it's not based on the 200 series, but it looks great in Xpower Grey with a boot spoiler. It's such a shame what happened to Rover.
I owned a Rover 420GSI Sport Turbo (not a standard Turbo) in the early 90's. It was a very rare car as they mostly went to the Police. It was VERY fast..so much so that a friend of mine who'd just imported a Mitisubishi EVO 4 thought something was wrong with his car as it felt slow after the Rover. A rolling road confirmed his car was fine...so he then spent a fortune on tuning to get it as quick as the Rover. The 420GSI Sport Turbo had had its turbo badge removed by its previous owner (a member of the BRDC), he'd also replaced the original soft bushes, fitted adjustable Bilsteins and uprated the brakes. It was a thug in suit...I upset a few Porsche 911 and Ferrari 348 drivers. The only negative aspect of ownership was the servicing cost as it wasn't really up to its performance..I lost a driveshaft which damaged the Torsen diff (££££), melted a piston and blew the turbo (££££)..but I guess I did drive it hard! It is still the car that holds my personal top speed record..set at 2am on a deserted M55. My current car an Audi S3 is probably about as quick, but passengers expect ut to be fairly fast...no-one expected what they got in the Rover...the second gear was like being launched from a catapult..it just went on....and on!! 👍🏻🙂 Thanks for the video...brought back some fond memories...and a few scary ones!😱
I;d seen a Cops Montego Turbo Uxbridge Road Shepherds Bush London ,Pizza moped geezer forgot to lock his back box,out comes 3 steaming pizzas Cop car doing about 80 mph swerved doing all 3 italian pies,it was a deliberate manoeuvre outcome splat steaming tomato chessy messes on the road.Feck what a laugh that was in the late 80 to-90's.A1 driving.
My Dad had a White 216 Vanden Plas back in the early 90s and at the time I had an XR3 and the Rover 216 was better all round and the S series was a peach of an engine and made the CVH in my old Ford feel like a boat anchor in comparison and the rover was also a lot more economical as well. The only downside was going fast into a corner you would slip off those leather seats and it needed some bigger wheels and I would of jumped at the chance of owning a 216 Vitesse variant in black with those lovely alloys and side stripes.
Interesting, I had a Honda equivalent of the Rover 45, the 1999 Civic 1.5i VTEC. It served me well, was a practical hatchback, one fun fact was it started for me in -45C at a ski resort when all the other cars around wouldn't start that same morning. Eventually it was too expensive to keep servicing/running and was replaced with a 2003 Volvo V70 5-cylinder back in the day.
I owned a R420 for about ten years, then a R200BRM which I restored and subtly modified, then a R75 1.8T which I bought cheap with blown head gasket and H-----DS very poor service history which I upgraded with leather trim and big brakes, this was the best car I ever owned. During all these I had a bought cheap with no service history but low mileage MGF Trophy 160 which I modified considerably but subtly over the years with coilovers, solid cams, front mounted oil cooler, stainless exhaust system and 200 cell cat, K7 gear set, 620Ti clutch with Freelander flywheel and 620 Torsen diff plus many small mods. I loved driving that car and the coilovers transformed it over the Hydragas. Head gasket problems go away if you take load off the water cooling system by installing a traditional front mounted oil cooler.
I had a Rover 214i in 1991 - K series red stripe trim. Back in the day it was a nice bit of kit and looked better than equivalent Ford Escorts. It was quick, comfortable and tidy. The K series engine delivered nice performance and it handled well. It was a company car, so I didn't get too attached. It was a lovely car.
I consider the 216 Coupe to be one of the best looking cars ever made. It has great proportions and clean lines. It's not a rounded blob like most of the modern cars. I'd even go as far as saying I'd prefer it over Calibra, Corrado, Probe or even an Accord of the same vintage.
The reciprocal part of the first gen 200, 800 collaboration was that Rover would build the Honda Ballade and Legend at Longbridge. There was a subsequent recall programme to rebuild these cars into something that didn’t besmirch the Honda badge. It must have cost somebody, hopefully Rover, a fortune. At some point in the early 90’s I had a Honda Concerto 1.4 as a company car, it was needed for a customer demonstration so I swapped into a Rover 214 for a couple of days. It had the 1400 K Series engine and would happily show a clean pair of heals to a Concerto 1.6, that surprised me.
Some really great research here. Fascinating that Rover sorted out Hondas handling problems and that Honda did take much from Rover. I remember a colleague's husband went over to Germany when BMW bought Rover and helped BMW with the windscreen design of the Z3. Essentially both Honda and BMW got what they needed from Rover and then dumped them. I had always thought Rover should have stayed with Honda but it is clear Honda wanted out. There was much skill at Rover, such a shame they were the big European car company not to survive.
As an American, I obviously don't know all that much about the history of labor issues between British Leyland and their workers. Can anyone with knowledge of labor history explain the specific issues the workers had with BL management? It is such a shame that Rover no longer exists as a British automobile maker, because they built some truly beautiful cars👍Greetings from the US! I love learning all about these European market cars, many of which were never sold here in the US!
I have a friend who owns a 2000 Rover 25 in Argentina. Rovers were quite popular here in the 90s, when imports had less taxes than nowadays. Now, parts for Rovers are hard to find and really expensive. Even, Rovers are really cheap because of that. I love your videos. I hope someday make a video about the Longbridge Plant or other British assembly plants.
Rover was doing fine in Portugal through the 90's, it came to us as a surprise when things with BMW went sour and the company "disappeared" in few years.
My first car was a Rover 216 coupe. It had a Honda engine with a T bar roof. Awesome car, engine was bulletproof beca it was Honda. In the 2 yrs I had it and lots of miles I never had a single issue with it.
We had a Rover 214Si in BRG. We bought it second hand from a Rover dealer. Good job as in the first year the head gasket had gone and several years later it went again which is why we sold the car. It was a shame that the people who designed the K series engine couldn't sort out the cooling issues with it. On the plus side the car looked good, had a nice interior, handled well and was never short of power, even thought the biased motoring press described it's performance as adequate. Interesting, as I've driven several cars with a 1.4 16v engine since that haven't matched the Rover or come close to it. Towards the end of it's life other problems were a rotting/leaking sun roof and failing radio. A great car to drive and I wish I'd been able to drive some of the more powerful versions.
Your first B reg would have been a 213 (Honda engined car). Lovely smooth, economical and reliable engine. Glad to hear you carried on with Honda ownership after your Rovers, I did the same and never looked back.
had a 1994 M-reg 218SD turbo diesel - put 87,000 miles on it and was totally reliable. Started first time, every time and when I sold it after 7 years the clutch, exhaust and even the brakes were still the originals. Only parts on the car that were ever changed were service items, tyres and the offside front wing (accident damage). Looked up the MOT history and it was still on the road in late 2017 with 131,500 miles.
Great video. I had a rare 5 door 1991 Rover 216 GTI in British Racing Green; probably the smartest car I’ve ever had and it didn’t arf shift but became more unreliable with each year. I ended up trading it in for a VW which I kept for over 20 years.
The Rover 200 RF (214i - 5 door in british racing green) was my very first car, and I loved it so much! It's a stunning beautiful car, which still today looks modern and and pleasant from the inside AND the outside with a comfortable drive and great reliability. My original one crashed in an accident and so I got myself a 216Si Lux (RF) in old-english white with light grey interior. It's the 7th Rover 200 RF I owned over the years and among with a yellow ZR 160 5-door I still have the white one today as a daily driver for work. It's turning 26 years now in November 2023 and still up an running with little to no defects over all these years. The Rover 200 RF and the MG-ZR 5-doors are still today my absolute favourite cars. I'm happy every time I throw my eyes on them and since my first Rover I'm still in love with this brand and as well with the great 75 and MG-ZT which I do own as well (one 190 in red and one 260 in black). No modern car of today is a match in regards of looks and feel. I love the MG Rovers till today and it's such a shame that the brand died. The horrible looking chinese SAIC EV crap today is no match to the beautiful original MG's - the only exception is the amazing MG E-Motion Concept which however sadly till today never made into production. Despite as I am a german and living in Germany, I love the MGs and Rovers as they are charismatic and unique cars with a special charm that no other car or manufacturer offers
That fact (which remember is only a rumour), I found out very late into making this video but I had to get it in. The source I used is usually very reliable (aronline), and actually very interesting. I'd recommend reading their articles. Here's the one that mentions this: www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/in-house-designs-rover-r30/
I had a hot version of the 400, a two litre GTi model, and it was fast but thirsty. One thing that always struck me, and still does to this day, was the quality of the panel gaps. All the door panel gaps were really good.
Superb video than you. Worked for a Rover dealer from 1982 91 so saw the launch of all but the last 2 200s. The 1989 launched 200 5 door was a superb car and I think the quality was superior even to the 800series. I remember Rover telling the dealers that the 200 hatch was more expensive to produce than the 400 saloon but they could charge more for the 400 as people expected a saloon to cost more. Very sad the demise of Rover , I think that is a 2 hour video on it's own Haha. Thank you. Darren.
Thanks! Yes, the 1989 200 was my favourite, and I wanted one when I worked as an Intern at ACT Financial Systems in Birmingham, and everyone was getting one as a company car.
I have very fond memories of the Rover 200.... In February 1985 my dad bought a new 213 VP in Moonraker Blue. The 1.6 engine was not yet available at this time so the 213 VP was top of the range. Price was around £5600 from Taggarts in Motherwell, Lanarkshire. I was 18 and had the pleasure of driving this car regularly, which made me feel very proud and important. I can still remember the registration number of the car - B809 BGB. In January 1986 my dad bought another Rover but this time a 216 VP EFi. The Vitesse model was not yet available so again this was top of the range at the time. It was again Moonraker blue and fitted with a 4 speed automatic. Price from same dealer as before was £6500. Registration of this car was C718 HUS. The 213 VP became my car at this time, so as you can imagine I was the envy of my friends....not to mention their dads. The 1600 fuel injected engine while obviously faster than the 1300 was not as smooth and also had a problem with burning oil.
When I was a kid I did work experience with a rep who had a 216. I adored it. When I passed my test I got my own - an H reg 216 GSI. It was an amazing car for the money. Adored it. Until I wrote it off with inexperience. I had four of them at all. Loved them all.
I loved these. Again the estate was a cracking car. I had a lot of rover cars over the years and never experienced any of the fatal flaws they were slated for so much so that my wife drove a 75 for 12 years totally trouble free. My 25 for work never let me down once, my freelander is still running and it's now 23 years old my 220 turbo was stolen and burnt by scum. I now have a mg f with 110000 on the clock. I am the luckiest k series owner in the world having never needed a head gasket or anything like it.
At work I had two R8 Rover 214s as lease cars which were nice cars. I was a bit disappointed when the second got swapped for a newly launched Ford Mondeo. That was back in the days when companies like Avis could make a nice profit buying cars in quantity at a discount then selling them on a few months later. Employees at GM subsidiary EDS were complaining that they were being made to to have a new car every month ! Back to Rover, in contrast the R3 200 is the only car I have written to a car manufacturer about, asking Rover if it was designed for Ken Dodd's Diddy Men. Did they ever check if anyone over 6 foot would be able to drive one ? I checked one out at a car show and a colleague said he saw me with my foot against the door pillar trying to force the seat back. Having driven a Ford Ka quite a bit, that had far more room for the driver.
Changing the green rubber inlet manifold gasket every couple of years is a good idea as they go kind of spongy and leak coolant internally and/or internally. Many the cause of actual head gasket failure and often wrongly diagnosed as perceived head gasket failure by 'mechanics'! Great little cars, just keep an eye out for any rust starting at the rear of the sills where they meet the arch. Other than that great little motors and mechanically hard as nails!
A Rover 216 gsi (1991 model) was the family car and the first car I started driving after I got my driving license. It was a well made upmarket car for it's time and extremely reliable. We had it in family for almost 20 years with no issues at all. It's sad that the Rover didn't make it, imagine what it would be like if Rover, Land Rover & Mini brands were under the same British company. Nice Videos keep up the good work!
this channel is pretty good and with these production values I cannot see any obstacle reaching 100+k subs. for a small channel many things are done correctly. the audio is done is done well, the camera is good and the host has the right kind of voice and appearance in front of the camera. I wish large growth to this channel as these videos remain interesting despite their slightly long runtime. keep up the good work.
I had a W-Reg 1.4 25 bought in early 2006 with 24,000 on the clock. Clutch and headgasket failure not too many weeks after purchase. After that I caned the living daylights out of it for five years with ne'er a problem. Just routine servicing. Engine was a bit peaky and flat at low revs as expected of its configuration. Handled and stopped well. Got a soft spot for it. Dad had a H-Reg 200 for years as well. No problems at all with that one. No power steering on it though. Smooth, cheap motoring.
Whilst Honda seemed to simply cool to the partnership, I saw BMW as a company that took advantage of Rover, the designers, tech, etc. and cherry-picked the brands they wanted and threw away the leftovers. The new Mini alone would have saved the company I reckon. BTW, we also had a Rover-badged Honda here in Australia, called the Rover Quintet (1983-1985) so pretty much the equivalent of the Triumph Acclaim in the UK. It actually was a hatchback, unlike the Triumph. Later on (around 1985) this was replaced by the 416i (not related to the R8) which was a rebadged Honda Integra. In 1991, the 'real' R8 was imported to evaluate possibility of bringing that model to Australia, but never happened. We finally had a last hurrah of Rover vehicles that resumed importing in 2001. Not certain, but I think we only got the 75 and MG variants of that model. The remaining stock was sold off by auction following MG Rover's collapse.
Also around the time (2004-2005), MG Rover Australia sold the MG ZR 160 hatch and MG ZS 180 sedan, but the numbers that were imported were tiny, less than 100 units. They were terribly expensive and they arrived at the time of MG Rovers collapse and then sell off to Nanjing Auto/SAIC Motors. Even though the Rover 200/400 R8 Series was never sold in Australia, they still remain to this day, my favourite Rovers!
The Mini One was developed with BMW knowhow prior to their eventual purchase of the brand as a whole, it had BMW developed engines in it and they threw £100million at the Mini plant. Subsequently BMW put around £400million into the Mini plants. There’s no way that Rover / Phoenix had that kind of money to develop the Mini, the Mini was a success because BMW invested significant sums in it, a look back through the history of British motor manufacturers prove that continual investment and development have been impossible, we simply don’t make good enough cars. We can do it when the Japanese build plants here but 100% British cars were shockingly bad.
@@iEnofadov JRA actually brought over a rover 400 to display at a motor show but chose not to import it but currency fluctuations and an easier and reliable source of cars from nearby honda Japan stopped it
@@sutherlandA1 - Yes, you're absolutely correct! They actually bought over a green Rover 220 GTi 3dr hatch and a silver Rover 416 GSi sedan for evaluation and were on display at the 1991 Australian International Motor Show in Sydney. Rumors have it that the 416 GSi sedan was still roaming the streets of Sydney a few years back, not sure if that's still the case? But yes, currency pressures pretty much put a stop to Australia getting the 200/400 R8 series cars, instead we'd get the Japanese built Rover Quintet (Honda Quint) and then the Rover 416i (Honda Integra). I guess we never completely missed out on the Rover 200/400 R8 cars, we did get the Honda Concerto, so there was some consolation.
Overlooked in this video, was that the Rover engine used in later years (1.6L in the 216) was a grenade. Well unless you are of the opinion that 40,000kms is acceptable interval for on engine to blow head gaskets ("edit" I should say like clockwork, every 40,000km)... Inlet manifold bolts would also break, requiring them all to be replaced with studs, in some cases the manifold may have warped too. A real shame as they were otherwise an awesome little car.
owned an old acclaim and literally drove it till the wheel fell off , super car felt like a limo from the previous metro i owned. I also owned a j reg 214 which did 60,000 miles as a taxi and apart from the renowned head gasket fail it did the job no problem , spritely thing made my diesel competition look slow but it never felt as smooth and comfy as the acclaim it was a bit tinny really
It was such a shame about the Rover series of cars, They are still popular today with a great record of reliability. British Aerospace, BMW and the legacy of BL all had a part to play in the demise. My dad was a part of BL and owned a 400 for the last 10 years of his life, but you always had the impression the company had been crippled from the 70s and 80s. Shame Honda didn't have a bigger stake and so on, but we still have a sort of Mini to remember it all by.
Well, I've had my 2002 MG ZS diesel that I only paid £375 for for two and a half years and I really like it. The handling is pretty good, the seats are really comfortable for long journeys, and it's pretty economical - almost never less than 50mpg, despite using it for driving about 4 miles to work for approx half its fuel usage. Has hardly needed any servicing, bodywork, engine, gearbox, suspension all in great condition. Oh, and guess what - No charge for the ULEZ! Bonus! Was that because Rover went bust before they'd done all the analysis on exhaust emissions?
Very informative video,really enjoyed it.I worked at Longbridge on the Metro & 200 line for a couple of happy years before volunteering to transfer to Land Rover at Solihull.Fortunatly for me one of the best decisions I ever made, as it collapsed a few months later.Very unfortunate for the work colleagues who stayed there though.I was bought up in Longbridge & always thought that the plant would always be there forever lol as my Father had worked at BL as did my Uncle who got me an application form to work for Rover .Longbridge is now unrecognisable and you would never know a giant factory once stood there. Twenty Five years of service & I have recently been offered voluntary redundancy from Jaguar Land Rover.Again we head for some very uncertain times in the UK automobile industry and I honestly think that there is not much future in the car industry in the UK.
I had a Rover 45 2.0 idt, loved it, great car, made me a great driver, and a great mechanic, broke so often I learned everything about that car... parts so scarce in eastern Europe had to scrap it and buy a Volkswagen... i really miss that car...
i had a 216s ,served me well, sold it then upgraded to a 216 vitesse ,sadly that was written off by another car, enjoyed both these cars and shame there arent as many on the roads these days
@@peterbollans9982 Actually now you mention it I did see the odd white one and silver one too. I can only assume they're rare beasts now which is a shame!
At British Gas we had a large fleet of R8 200 / 400's . They were so much better than rivals, Specially if one was restricted to a 1.4, the K series with 102 bhp would wipe the floor with rivals 1.6 let alone 1.4's for performance.
I owned a 1996 216 R8 SLI (although manufactured 1995) a few years ago and absolutely loved it! I was really blessed last month to have been able to review a Tomcat for my channel as well. Brilliant history covering everything from the Triumph Acclaim all the way to the collapse of MG Rover in 2005! Good to see that your channel lives again too.
@@BigCar2, thanks ever so much, I have been blessed to have gained a few more subscribers and a video about a Rover Tomcat since we were last in touch! Loved the last couple of videos, especially the one about the Triumph Stag. Can't believe how cheap both those and Rover R8s are!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting I was watching some of your videos. You have SOOOO much more knowledge than me on cars. I'm a "casual" car nut, with a history making in car entertainment software, but my channel is essentially me learning stuff about cars that I didn't know before. Kudos to such a great channel!
@@BigCar2, thanks ever so much! Apart from Tweed Jacket Reviews, which are filmed and edited mainly by my long suffering videographer Mr Franks or my friend Matt Richardson from furiousdriving, the videos on my channel are vastly inferior to yours in terms of research and production quality, so it is wonderful to hear that you like them and have learned something new from them. I am not really an expert, but I do get paid to advise people on car purchases, so I have picked up a modicum of knowledge over the years. Do you have a business e-mail address listed on your TH-cam contact page?
Great video. Brought back memories of my Rover 218, (Peugeot diesel) having a 93 mile commute each way (which I did in 90 mins each way!) it did a hell of a lot of miles, regular service, consumables and one glow plug is all it needed in three years. Still knew of the car when it had over 400,000 miles on it, magic! Liked my Rover 75 too. Both great cars.
I'll never really forgive BMW for what they did to Rover. Closed half the dealerships when they were taken over, stopped Rovers from having premium features so they wouldn't cannibalise BMW sales, sold Land Rover to Ford after they had used their expertise to design and build the X5, delayed the release of the 75 estate so it wouldn't cannibalise BMW 3/5 series estate sales, and kept all the Rover designs for the new Mini for themselves because they wanted to compete with the Golf based new Beetle from VW. The sting is that BMW then opened a Mini museum to celebrate the car's history in the 2010s... Except the museum is in Germany, not Britain. It's actually quite insulting when you think about it.
I guess that's the position we put ourselves in. Rover was a weak, ailing company, prime for such pillaging. It seems to have been on course for that since the '60s.
I've just discovered this channeI - absolutely fantastic and keep up the good work !! I had a brand new Rover 214 SEI in October 1994. Honestly the best car I've ever had !! I did over 120,000 trouble free miles in it, it handled brilliantly and it was revvy without being annoying, a lovely half leather interior and nicely equipped. It's such a shame that Rover was consumed by it's own ill conceived strategies :-(.
Also had the 214sei one owner from new, such a great car to drive had loads of poke in the engine and the seats where great. Had it for 12 years head gasket finished it like most k series engines.
The SEis looked so good, my dad had a charcoal metallic on and it looked great, and the seats were so classy and sporty looking, with the hologram-like fabric in the middle.
When you were talking about the Triumph Acclaim, you pointed something very important out: BL's workers weren't lazy or incompetent; the management (which is invariably given immunity by the Press) gave them crappy designs and poor facilities to build them in. Maybe the time has come to start focusing on the mistakes of the top brass.
Thats the issue I have with chunky plastic clad hatchbacks as they look like 4x4 ish but are just a jacked up family hatchback which is next useless and have no extra room
Possibly the most fascinating car story you're done to date.I was particularly intrigued by the 'new' Rover 200 and first BMW 1 Series design link. It seems Rover had some fine engineers, using their ingenuity and expertise to overcome budget, and two of the biggest worldwide car companies recognised this (and British Aerospace didn't, good ol' British management eh...), but learnt from Rover then walked away. I think the clumsiness of British Governments of the day come into play too, particularly in the case of Honda, who I thought were interested in a takeover? Thank you for continuing your mini-documentary channel, in the face of TH-cam's anonymous messing around.
Thanks. This one took the most research to pull together, and I was happy with the result. I had a pretty simplistic view of the British car industry before starting this channel, so I'm learning along with everyone else. I was surprised about the possible Rover 35 / BMW 1-Series link and only found it out just before I finished the video. But I think the British Government didn't want to be running a car company (and shouldn't), like the US Government and GM in 2009. Of course the US Government managed to do a better job of restructuring GM and managed to get it back in private hands (with a small profit I think) in just a couple of years.
@@BigCar2 Your research was quite good up to the end of R8. R3 (originally code-named SK3) started off with two objectives (1) to replace the Metro and (2) to fill volume lost to Swindon when the R8 Rovers were replaced by HHR (Rover 400) and Honda started UK manufacture themselves. SK3 was developed in the UK with support from Honda Engineers as opposed to every other project where Honda were largely in the driving seat. This was done because at the time it was in neither company's interest to have Longbridge volumes drop. The car was based on a cut-down R8 and as a result of the rear suspension design had too small an interior and load space, as well as being too expensive to build, relative to its size. In essence it was Astra sized with a Metro sized boot. This project was put on ice and then reborn as R3 (without any Honda input) when the rear end (BC post back) was re-engineered using a Maestro derived rear suspension which met all the class targets for space. It was a 4.0m vehicle with competitive boot space and interior against Escort and Astra which is why it was then badged Rover 200. The BMW era replacement (R30 / Rover "35") was front wheel drive and based on the same platform technology as Rover 75 , being one of 6 products that were being planned (Rover 75 Saloon and Tourer were the first two). Whilst some of the exterior design ideas may have influenced the BMW 1 series, this car was developed as a joint platform with the BMW E90 3 series and shared nothing with the Rover R30 basic design.
I think BAe took on Rover to help the Conservative government/favour for Margaret Thatcher - they didn't have any long term plan for car manufacture and showed little interest in Rover once they bought it.
British cars have an elegance that other car companies don't have.But unfortunately most british car companies closed about 20-30 years after the British Leyland closed.Austin & Morris closed in the 90s Rover in the 2000s,triumph and Riley in the 60s-70s
From memory the 216 GSi used a sixteen valve head but operated, unusually, by a single overhead camshaft. Honda's Concerto was very similar to the 1989 Rover 200 hatch in terms of exterior styling.
Most of the Honda 16v motors were single cam but operated rocker arms and cam buckets much like the Dolly Sprint motor. The few exceptions for Rover models being the D16 twin cam in some 200s and 400s and also the H23 in the 623 models. Some bloke did fit a VTEC H22 from a Prelude into a nice looking flame red 600 once, neat!
The Honda Concerto was a great idea - a luxury slightly bigger small hatchback - I thought it would sell but it didn’t. I would have had one in the early nineties if one turned up.
I’ve been watching your videos for a few years but have only just got to this. I’ve owned four Polos over the years (all mkII breadvans, including one post-1990 facelift model). Unless I was unusually lucky and picked up a prototype, the Formel E was sold on the open market because I had a 1984 Formel E. it had a little orange light that told you went to change gears, and it had start-stop. Unlike modern start-stops, it restarted the engine when you moved the gearstick from neutral to first gear, not by engaging the clutch. To clarify, you were at the lights, engage the clutch, but ignition only happened when you threw the box into first.
Passed my test in Dad's M reg' Rover 218 SD 1.9L turbo Diesel in 2011 (a friend of ours still owns and regularly drives it), and my first car I've now had just over a decade myself is an X reg' 25 iL 1.4L petrol, so I feel very much at-home with these!
Recently discovered this amazing channel and have since gone on a watching binge. Informative and funny. Had me laughing out with the Mrs Bucket reference. Look forward to many hours of great entertainment.
Owned a Maestro City as a young driver. It was cheap to run and very spacious inside. A nice metallic graphite colour. The downside was it was very basic and felt a bit tinny. It was underpowered. A car that size should have had a 1500 engin minimum. They should have re formulated the allegro engine.
The Honda engines never gave head gasket problems. The entirely rover developed k series engine had a history for blowing head gaskets. In saying that, we had 3x r8 200s, all with k series and no gasket problems for us luckily
@@TheRoverspeedcorrect. Also the K series was a good engine when first launched. Earlier cars didn't suffer anywhere near as bad. Penny pinching and cost cutting led to the head gasket issues
I had a rover 216 Vitesse as my first car, got 12 years and 214,000 miles out of it before sadly it had to go when it got to the stage that i was welding to the previous years welding none of the Honda parts apart from the central door locking switch ever went wrong, (ignoring wear parts of course).
Some photos of a "what could have been" Rover 45: www.ilovemg.org/?p=1222#jp-carousel-1230
One of those was the RDx60 which BMW took and made into the 1 series
The link is dead, is there a backup?
Dead link, pun'kin.
We owned a red 1994 Rover 214 Si as a family car. Amazingly beautiful and powerful car!
If Rover had maintained their collaboration with Honda it would still be around today.
With a b16 engine for sure
I have to agree 👍
Not true. The relationship was strained and not so much a joint venture by the HHR/R3.
Yes. The BMW sale is the worst thing that could have happened to them.
Lash195 I don’t agree. The rover experience has served them well. No more collaboration with any other manufacturers since then.
As the owner of a former Rover 200, a 1996 P-registered 214i model, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I always thought the last model 200 was a very unlucky car, suffering from overpricing at launch and the decision to aim it at the wrong market segment. It was a cracking wee car and had it been aimed at the Fiesta/Corsa/Polo market it would have cleaned up as it was light years ahead of those cars at the time.
The 25 Streetwise was a car ahead of time if you consider the market now, as it anticipated the fad for chunky SUVs that saturate the market now. When it came out people laughed and snorted at it but if you look at cars like the Fiesta Active and Focus Active, these are the sort of cars that the Rover was 15 years ago.
Had 96 200 same feelings, fantastic I had the same type of other car from big names but the wee touches and handling on the 200 wouldn't be beat by them. A Fn bloody damn shame. I would have bought into a new rover mini but its a bmw not the same heritage. Rover would have been around today.. Gone are the big days of splendid British motoring only available through classic ownership now. God bless you Rover and British Leyland.... Is there anything we make nowadays? 😥
@@chuckydreal9040 - I worked for an automotive consultancy in the late 80s and one of my projects involved working with Rover people at Canley and Cowley. As a result, I was given full Rover badged kit - blazer, tie, shirt, even overalls (which I've still got in resplendent maroon livery!) ... plus a succession of Rover cars. I was initally given a Montego, but that was quickly followed by a couple of Rovers - a 200 and a 400 - the latter being a top range 416 GTi. Lovely car and as you said ... streets ahead of the competition in the form of tinny Fords, Vauxhalls, Renaults and Peugeots of the time. Definitely on a par with BMW, but I felt better put together. The paint finish for example, was like smooth glass, thanks to the new advanced paint plant @ Cowley. Much missed company. So badly managed. It was a crime they let if fail.
As someone who was actually onsite at Rover eating a dog roll with a cup of tea in the Conformity of Production Emissions dept' crew room, when when BA sold a majority stake to BMW, I feel I can comment here.
I can vouch that the Honda guys onsite were absolutely stunned, shocked and gob smacked at the decision. The Honda tech' support guy I was liaising with was asked to immediately clear his desk and leave the site by a very embarrassed John Gilbert (Gilbert Matthews, I forget now) the then manager. All other Honda personnel were also asked to leave....an incredibly awful experience to be there and see long standing working relationships broken this way.
Honda did try and purchase a controlling stake but, BA played hardball, by continually changing the goal posts to the point where Honda asked for month break in negotiations.....within a few weeks BA had sold out to BMW.
People need to remember that Honda had a lot more to offer Rover and it's employees than BMW ever did and the working relationship was never the same again.
I remember the Top Gear team slagging off the Streetwise. They couldn't get their heads around the idea of a 'normal' car having 'off-road' styling cues, such as the increased ride height and boddy cladding, if they're not actual off-roaders. Not long after, many car companies adopted this theme and the Crossover market really took off. So, the Streetwise was ahead of its time, however the 3 Top Gear presenters, unsurprisingly, weren't.
Everything in this video is correct EXCEPT one major flaw: the K-Series engine. I worked for late BL and then Rover in the 90s and I can assure you the K-Series engine was anything other than 'plucky'. I was unreliable and dogged with head gasket failure and overheating. We would have to replace the HG after having the warped cylinder heads re-machined on MANY cars. The 1.4 engine wasn't so bad but the 1.6 and 1.8 versions were a pain. I am of a very strong opinion (as are other technicians from the time) that the warranty claims made by dealers against Rover had a massive financial impact to Rover's demise. I know many will say this is incorrect but I can assure you it's not.; we once had 20 K-series cars waiting for skims and gasket's in one month; as did many others. The Honda engine was radically more reliable.
A good friend of mine was working at Swindon at the time of the Bae takeover and he said the Honda upper management were insulted that they had not been offered Rover by the government. My dad had a 216 for about 10 years and he liked it as it was cheap and reliable.
I remember hearing that at the time too.
Very true about Honda wanting rover. When the triumph acclaim came out and the tie in with Honda happened there was an agreement that Honda got first option if rover ever came up for sale. BMW bribed the people behind the sale and Honda got shafted
People need to stop slagging off the BMW era. Bernd Pischetsrieder gave them capital and a total hands off approach to do what they wanted, but after Simpson and Towers left there was another management vacuum and it all went to shit. Bernd Pischetsrieder got the push from the whole group and the next CEO got tough. Not surprising. If Rover had got its shit together and had stopped designing cars Inspector Morse would want to drive with marketing based around 'Britishness' perhaps they really would be here today.
If 'Britishness' was a thing in car buying then people wouldn't be buying French and German cars in their droves.
Instead of harping on about Britishness they should have loaded their cars with every gizmo going to give a USP. Ok Rover is a bit pricier but you get so much more as standard.
Should have also chased a younger audience with the kind of trim levels younger people wanted. Who under the age of 70 what's a car to look like a sailboat on the inside? Both Jaguar and Rover got stuck in this ridiculous 'retro rut' thankfully Jaguar saw sense before it was too late.
Yes I wonder what was in it for British Aerospace? a defence company buying a car company? As for Honda, I know from experience that the Japanese put a lot of emphasis on honour and respect so must have felt very disappointed by what happened.
Quite correct !
Good to see that you're still uploading. Cant understand why TH-cam decided your channel was illegal !!!
I ABSOLUTELY CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF YOUR DOCUMENTARIES. KEEP UP THE ROVER/MG STUFF!
THANK YOU!!!!!
@@BigCar2Enjoying your documentaries any chance of some Rootes group by any chance, Dad had a few; Hillman Imp, Hillman Hunter, Hillman Avenger, Talbot Samba.
Really enjoyed the Granada and Sierra videos - Dad was "told" ;-)
@@richardcrossley5581 I have a playlist on my channel page with videos from other TH-camrs. There's a good Hillman Imp one there. As for the others, yes, but I don't know when.
@@BigCar2 Thanks, I'll check that out.
I remember as a young man, in the mid to late 90s; Rover made some really cool cars I wished I could have owned. There were some lovely sporty 200 models. Especially the coupe 'tomcat'. What a cool looking car! They're so sought after even today. And I love the look of the MG ZT. I know it's not based on the 200 series, but it looks great in Xpower Grey with a boot spoiler. It's such a shame what happened to Rover.
I owned a Rover 420GSI Sport Turbo (not a standard Turbo) in the early 90's. It was a very rare car as they mostly went to the Police. It was VERY fast..so much so that a friend of mine who'd just imported a Mitisubishi EVO 4 thought something was wrong with his car as it felt slow after the Rover. A rolling road confirmed his car was fine...so he then spent a fortune on tuning to get it as quick as the Rover.
The 420GSI Sport Turbo had had its turbo badge removed by its previous owner (a member of the BRDC), he'd also replaced the original soft bushes, fitted adjustable Bilsteins and uprated the brakes. It was a thug in suit...I upset a few Porsche 911 and Ferrari 348 drivers. The only negative aspect of ownership was the servicing cost as it wasn't really up to its performance..I lost a driveshaft which damaged the Torsen diff (££££), melted a piston and blew the turbo (££££)..but I guess I did drive it hard! It is still the car that holds my personal top speed record..set at 2am on a deserted M55.
My current car an Audi S3 is probably about as quick, but passengers expect ut to be fairly fast...no-one expected what they got in the Rover...the second gear was like being launched from a catapult..it just went on....and on!! 👍🏻🙂
Thanks for the video...brought back some fond memories...and a few scary ones!😱
I;d seen a Cops Montego Turbo Uxbridge Road Shepherds Bush London ,Pizza moped geezer forgot to lock his back box,out comes 3 steaming pizzas Cop car doing about 80 mph swerved doing all 3 italian pies,it was a deliberate manoeuvre outcome splat steaming tomato chessy messes on the road.Feck what a laugh that was in the late 80 to-90's.A1 driving.
Vincent Mullins 👍🏻😁
Brilliant to see Mr expensive being trashed so badly,lol.
Y
You are correct in worked in R&D at rover and we had a 420 turbo it was so quick but the rest of components weren't top notch it was scary.
My Dad had a White 216 Vanden Plas back in the early 90s and at the time I had an XR3 and the Rover 216 was better all round and the S series was a peach of an engine and made the CVH in my old Ford feel like a boat anchor in comparison and the rover was also a lot more economical as well.
The only downside was going fast into a corner you would slip off those leather seats and it needed some bigger wheels and I would of jumped at the chance of owning a 216 Vitesse variant in black with those lovely alloys and side stripes.
That was really informative. Thank you from an old rover mechanic 👍
Interesting, I had a Honda equivalent of the Rover 45, the 1999 Civic 1.5i VTEC. It served me well, was a practical hatchback, one fun fact was it started for me in -45C at a ski resort when all the other cars around wouldn't start that same morning. Eventually it was too expensive to keep servicing/running and was replaced with a 2003 Volvo V70 5-cylinder back in the day.
I owned a R420 for about ten years, then a R200BRM which I restored and subtly modified, then a R75 1.8T which I bought cheap with blown head gasket and H-----DS very poor service history which I upgraded with leather trim and big brakes, this was the best car I ever owned. During all these I had a bought cheap with no service history but low mileage MGF Trophy 160 which I modified considerably but subtly over the years with coilovers, solid cams, front mounted oil cooler, stainless exhaust system and 200 cell cat, K7 gear set, 620Ti clutch with Freelander flywheel and 620 Torsen diff plus many small mods. I loved driving that car and the coilovers transformed it over the Hydragas. Head gasket problems go away if you take load off the water cooling system by installing a traditional front mounted oil cooler.
I had a Rover 214i in 1991 - K series red stripe trim. Back in the day it was a nice bit of kit and looked better than equivalent Ford Escorts. It was quick, comfortable and tidy. The K series engine delivered nice performance and it handled well. It was a company car, so I didn't get too attached. It was a lovely car.
I consider the 216 Coupe to be one of the best looking cars ever made. It has great proportions and clean lines. It's not a rounded blob like most of the modern cars. I'd even go as far as saying I'd prefer it over Calibra, Corrado, Probe or even an Accord of the same vintage.
The reciprocal part of the first gen 200, 800 collaboration was that Rover would build the Honda Ballade and Legend at Longbridge. There was a subsequent recall programme to rebuild these cars into something that didn’t besmirch the Honda badge. It must have cost somebody, hopefully Rover, a fortune. At some point in the early 90’s I had a Honda Concerto 1.4 as a company car, it was needed for a customer demonstration so I swapped into a Rover 214 for a couple of days. It had the 1400 K Series engine and would happily show a clean pair of heals to a Concerto 1.6, that surprised me.
Some really great research here. Fascinating that Rover sorted out Hondas handling problems and that Honda did take much from Rover. I remember a colleague's husband went over to Germany when BMW bought Rover and helped BMW with the windscreen design of the Z3. Essentially both Honda and BMW got what they needed from Rover and then dumped them. I had always thought Rover should have stayed with Honda but it is clear Honda wanted out. There was much skill at Rover, such a shame they were the big European car company not to survive.
The intro was totally unexpected, and very funny :D
I initially thought it was an add
And very disturbing.
As an American, I obviously don't know all that much about the history of labor issues between British Leyland and their workers. Can anyone with knowledge of labor history explain the specific issues the workers had with BL management? It is such a shame that Rover no longer exists as a British automobile maker, because they built some truly beautiful cars👍Greetings from the US! I love learning all about these European market cars, many of which were never sold here in the US!
Had. 1991 J reg 216 GTi twin cam (130bhp). In white. 🤣. Absolutely brilliant car. Kept it 8 years. Such a good car
The 2 litre turbo diesels with intercooler had fantastic performance and had bulletproof reliability. I miss mine. I sold it with full MOT.
Fuel economy wasn't great though. Not much better than Hondas 2.0 petrol.
@@garybrown5500 true but it wasn't that bad about 48 wish if i remember from the one i had, it was more refined than my maestro td (60mpg)
Me too😢
@@garybrown5500
You are talking nonsense! They were phenomenally good on fuel!
@@skylined5534 Really. How many MPG were you getting from yours?
I have a friend who owns a 2000 Rover 25 in Argentina. Rovers were quite popular here in the 90s, when imports had less taxes than nowadays. Now, parts for Rovers are hard to find and really expensive. Even, Rovers are really cheap because of that. I love your videos. I hope someday make a video about the Longbridge Plant or other British assembly plants.
Rover was doing fine in Portugal through the 90's, it came to us as a surprise when things with BMW went sour and the company "disappeared" in few years.
My first car was a Rover 216 coupe. It had a Honda engine with a T bar roof. Awesome car, engine was bulletproof beca it was Honda. In the 2 yrs I had it and lots of miles I never had a single issue with it.
I had a Rover 414i, absolutely loved it, only problem was no power steering so was tiring to park, never let me down the 4 years I had it.
I had an L reg 414 s back in 2001, basic but faster than you would think, I miss the simplicity, one of my favourite cars
Fantastic detailed story. I never knew the plethora of Rover models. By now the survivors will be modern classics.
We had a 1989 216 GSi, the same two tone colour as in the video. Sharp styling, Honda engine, great car.
We had a Rover 214Si in BRG. We bought it second hand from a Rover dealer. Good job as in the first year the head gasket had gone and several years later it went again which is why we sold the car. It was a shame that the people who designed the K series engine couldn't sort out the cooling issues with it. On the plus side the car looked good, had a nice interior, handled well and was never short of power, even thought the biased motoring press described it's performance as adequate. Interesting, as I've driven several cars with a 1.4 16v engine since that haven't matched the Rover or come close to it. Towards the end of it's life other problems were a rotting/leaking sun roof and failing radio. A great car to drive and I wish I'd been able to drive some of the more powerful versions.
Same here. Brilliant car for its time, but like you I got tired of paying for new head gaskets and sold it.
I had 4 Rover 214’s, from a B Reg to an N Reg. I loved them and they served me well. I then went to a Honda Civic. I still remember my Rovers fondly.
Your first B reg would have been a 213 (Honda engined car). Lovely smooth, economical and reliable engine. Glad to hear you carried on with Honda ownership after your Rovers, I did the same and never looked back.
Jammy_Rex sadly I recently changed to a Toyota verso as I needed 7 seats!
Gawd I miss Rover. I had a Rover 200 & I loved it. Great car. Rest In Peace Rover.
my last car b4 my Citreon C4 now. about 6 years ago I had a Streetwise. until electrical problems. best looking car i have had
had a 1994 M-reg 218SD turbo diesel - put 87,000 miles on it and was totally reliable. Started first time, every time and when I sold it after 7 years the clutch, exhaust and even the brakes were still the originals. Only parts on the car that were ever changed were service items, tyres and the offside front wing (accident damage). Looked up the MOT history and it was still on the road in late 2017 with 131,500 miles.
Great video. I had a rare 5 door 1991 Rover 216 GTI in British Racing Green; probably the smartest car I’ve ever had and it didn’t arf shift but became more unreliable with each year. I ended up trading it in for a VW which I kept for over 20 years.
Drove a L reg 216 sli. If I could add air conditioning to it I would happily still drive it today. Very comfy and nice to drive.
The Rover 200 RF (214i - 5 door in british racing green) was my very first car, and I loved it so much! It's a stunning beautiful car, which still today looks modern and and pleasant from the inside AND the outside with a comfortable drive and great reliability. My original one crashed in an accident and so I got myself a 216Si Lux (RF) in old-english white with light grey interior. It's the 7th Rover 200 RF I owned over the years and among with a yellow ZR 160 5-door I still have the white one today as a daily driver for work. It's turning 26 years now in November 2023 and still up an running with little to no defects over all these years.
The Rover 200 RF and the MG-ZR 5-doors are still today my absolute favourite cars. I'm happy every time I throw my eyes on them and since my first Rover I'm still in love with this brand and as well with the great 75 and MG-ZT which I do own as well (one 190 in red and one 260 in black). No modern car of today is a match in regards of looks and feel. I love the MG Rovers till today and it's such a shame that the brand died. The horrible looking chinese SAIC EV crap today is no match to the beautiful original MG's - the only exception is the amazing MG E-Motion Concept which however sadly till today never made into production. Despite as I am a german and living in Germany, I love the MGs and Rovers as they are charismatic and unique cars with a special charm that no other car or manufacturer offers
The fact that the BMW E87 could be a revamped Rover 200 is a serious contender for the plot-twist of the century.
Love your videos man !
That fact (which remember is only a rumour), I found out very late into making this video but I had to get it in. The source I used is usually very reliable (aronline), and actually very interesting. I'd recommend reading their articles. Here's the one that mentions this: www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/in-house-designs-rover-r30/
I still remember the whizz and grunt of the 200 turbodiesel on country lanes - that thing could pull hard!
My dad had a Rover 416 GTI (basically the saloon version of the equivalent 200 hatch Rover). I remember it being pretty nice.
I had a hot version of the 400, a two litre GTi model, and it was fast but thirsty. One thing that always struck me, and still does to this day, was the quality of the panel gaps. All the door panel gaps were really good.
Superb video than you. Worked for a Rover dealer from 1982 91 so saw the launch of all but the last 2 200s. The 1989 launched 200 5 door was a superb car and I think the quality was superior even to the 800series. I remember Rover telling the dealers that the 200 hatch was more expensive to produce than the 400 saloon but they could charge more for the 400 as people expected a saloon to cost more.
Very sad the demise of Rover , I think that is a 2 hour video on it's own Haha. Thank you. Darren.
Thanks! Yes, the 1989 200 was my favourite, and I wanted one when I worked as an Intern at ACT Financial Systems in Birmingham, and everyone was getting one as a company car.
@@BigCar2 Now I even remember ACT Financial Systems..... Apricot computer sound familiar. Then you sold out to Misys.
I really have enjoyed all your posts. Very well put together and narrated. Thank you.
I have very fond memories of the Rover 200....
In February 1985 my dad bought a new 213 VP in Moonraker Blue. The 1.6 engine was not yet available at this time so the 213 VP was top of the range. Price was around £5600 from Taggarts in Motherwell, Lanarkshire. I was 18 and had the pleasure of driving this car regularly, which made me feel very proud and important. I can still remember the registration number of the car - B809 BGB.
In January 1986 my dad bought another Rover but this time a 216 VP EFi. The Vitesse model was not yet available so again this was top of the range at the time. It was again Moonraker blue and fitted with a 4 speed automatic. Price from same dealer as before was £6500. Registration of this car was C718 HUS.
The 213 VP became my car at this time, so as you can imagine I was the envy of my friends....not to mention their dads.
The 1600 fuel injected engine while obviously faster than the 1300 was not as smooth and also had a problem with burning oil.
When I was a kid I did work experience with a rep who had a 216. I adored it. When I passed my test I got my own - an H reg 216 GSI. It was an amazing car for the money. Adored it. Until I wrote it off with inexperience. I had four of them at all. Loved them all.
I love the wood grain in the rovers.i had 1,i think it was a 1989 model somethin n it was all round luxury n automatic windows n everythin.i loved it.
I loved these. Again the estate was a cracking car. I had a lot of rover cars over the years and never experienced any of the fatal flaws they were slated for so much so that my wife drove a 75 for 12 years totally trouble free. My 25 for work never let me down once, my freelander is still running and it's now 23 years old my 220 turbo was stolen and burnt by scum. I now have a mg f with 110000 on the clock. I am the luckiest k series owner in the world having never needed a head gasket or anything like it.
The Dolls.......I wasn’t expecting that 😀😀😀
At work I had two R8 Rover 214s as lease cars which were nice cars. I was a bit disappointed when the second got swapped for a newly launched Ford Mondeo. That was back in the days when companies like Avis could make a nice profit buying cars in quantity at a discount then selling them on a few months later. Employees at GM subsidiary EDS were complaining that they were being made to to have a new car every month !
Back to Rover, in contrast the R3 200 is the only car I have written to a car manufacturer about, asking Rover if it was designed for Ken Dodd's Diddy Men. Did they ever check if anyone over 6 foot would be able to drive one ? I checked one out at a car show and a colleague said he saw me with my foot against the door pillar trying to force the seat back. Having driven a Ford Ka quite a bit, that had far more room for the driver.
Had a 92 Rover Metro with the K series engine and it never let me down in 10 years of motoring, great little car
Just bought a 40k miles 25 as my first car. Absolutely class! (Almost) no rust and cylinder head is just holding in there
Changing the green rubber inlet manifold gasket every couple of years is a good idea as they go kind of spongy and leak coolant internally and/or internally.
Many the cause of actual head gasket failure and often wrongly diagnosed as perceived head gasket failure by 'mechanics'!
Great little cars, just keep an eye out for any rust starting at the rear of the sills where they meet the arch.
Other than that great little motors and mechanically hard as nails!
A Rover 216 gsi (1991 model) was the family car and the first car I started driving after I got my driving license. It was a well made upmarket car for it's time and extremely reliable. We had it in family for almost 20 years with no issues at all. It's sad that the Rover didn't make it, imagine what it would be like if Rover, Land Rover & Mini brands were under the same British company.
Nice Videos keep up the good work!
I had a three door 214si brand new it was lovely
this channel is pretty good and with these production values I cannot see any obstacle reaching 100+k subs. for a small channel many things are done correctly. the audio is done is done well, the camera is good and the host has the right kind of voice and appearance in front of the camera. I wish large growth to this channel as these videos remain interesting despite their slightly long runtime. keep up the good work.
Thanks! I think I look a dork in front of the camera, so it's nice to hear such encouraging words.
I had a W-Reg 1.4 25 bought in early 2006 with 24,000 on the clock.
Clutch and headgasket failure not too many weeks after purchase.
After that I caned the living daylights out of it for five years with ne'er a problem. Just routine servicing.
Engine was a bit peaky and flat at low revs as expected of its configuration.
Handled and stopped well. Got a soft spot for it.
Dad had a H-Reg 200 for years as well. No problems at all with that one. No power steering on it though. Smooth, cheap motoring.
Rover 220 turbo was probably the best performance car Rover made still look good now.
45 with the b16 bulletproof
Very underrated car.
I always wanted one and still do..
I had it's big sister the 620ti... a total stealth fighter!
@@skylined5534 Good looking motor too my mates boss had a 820 Vitesse that was lovley but tye 220 just had the weight advantage.
Whilst Honda seemed to simply cool to the partnership, I saw BMW as a company that took advantage of Rover, the designers, tech, etc. and cherry-picked the brands they wanted and threw away the leftovers. The new Mini alone would have saved the company I reckon. BTW, we also had a Rover-badged Honda here in Australia, called the Rover Quintet (1983-1985) so pretty much the equivalent of the Triumph Acclaim in the UK. It actually was a hatchback, unlike the Triumph. Later on (around 1985) this was replaced by the 416i (not related to the R8) which was a rebadged Honda Integra. In 1991, the 'real' R8 was imported to evaluate possibility of bringing that model to Australia, but never happened. We finally had a last hurrah of Rover vehicles that resumed importing in 2001. Not certain, but I think we only got the 75 and MG variants of that model. The remaining stock was sold off by auction following MG Rover's collapse.
Thanks - interesting to hear the Australian perspective that I hadn't found while researching.
Also around the time (2004-2005), MG Rover Australia sold the MG ZR 160 hatch and MG ZS 180 sedan, but the numbers that were imported were tiny, less than 100 units. They were terribly expensive and they arrived at the time of MG Rovers collapse and then sell off to Nanjing Auto/SAIC Motors.
Even though the Rover 200/400 R8 Series was never sold in Australia, they still remain to this day, my favourite Rovers!
The Mini One was developed with BMW knowhow prior to their eventual purchase of the brand as a whole, it had BMW developed engines in it and they threw £100million at the Mini plant. Subsequently BMW put around £400million into the Mini plants. There’s no way that Rover / Phoenix had that kind of money to develop the Mini, the Mini was a success because BMW invested significant sums in it, a look back through the history of British motor manufacturers prove that continual investment and development have been impossible, we simply don’t make good enough cars. We can do it when the Japanese build plants here but 100% British cars were shockingly bad.
@@iEnofadov JRA actually brought over a rover 400 to display at a motor show but chose not to import it but currency fluctuations and an easier and reliable source of cars from nearby honda Japan stopped it
@@sutherlandA1 - Yes, you're absolutely correct! They actually bought over a green Rover 220 GTi 3dr hatch and a silver Rover 416 GSi sedan for evaluation and were on display at the 1991 Australian International Motor Show in Sydney. Rumors have it that the 416 GSi sedan was still roaming the streets of Sydney a few years back, not sure if that's still the case?
But yes, currency pressures pretty much put a stop to Australia getting the 200/400 R8 series cars, instead we'd get the Japanese built Rover Quintet (Honda Quint) and then the Rover 416i (Honda Integra). I guess we never completely missed out on the Rover 200/400 R8 cars, we did get the Honda Concerto, so there was some consolation.
1960s:Britain has the 2nd biggest automotive industry
2010s:Britain only makes taxis
Overlooked in this video, was that the Rover engine used in later years (1.6L in the 216) was a grenade. Well unless you are of the opinion that 40,000kms is acceptable interval for on engine to blow head gaskets ("edit" I should say like clockwork, every 40,000km)... Inlet manifold bolts would also break, requiring them all to be replaced with studs, in some cases the manifold may have warped too. A real shame as they were otherwise an awesome little car.
owned an old acclaim and literally drove it till the wheel fell off , super car felt like a limo from the previous metro i owned. I also owned a j reg 214 which did 60,000 miles as a taxi and apart from the renowned head gasket fail it did the job no problem , spritely thing made my diesel competition look slow but it never felt as smooth and comfy as the acclaim it was a bit tinny really
It was such a shame about the Rover series of cars, They are still popular today with a great record of reliability. British Aerospace, BMW and the legacy of BL all had a part to play in the demise. My dad was a part of BL and owned a 400 for the last 10 years of his life, but you always had the impression the company had been crippled from the 70s and 80s. Shame Honda didn't have a bigger stake and so on, but we still have a sort of Mini to remember it all by.
Well, I've had my 2002 MG ZS diesel that I only paid £375 for for two and a half years and I really like it. The handling is pretty good, the seats are really comfortable for long journeys, and it's pretty economical - almost never less than 50mpg, despite using it for driving about 4 miles to work for approx half its fuel usage. Has hardly needed any servicing, bodywork, engine, gearbox, suspension all in great condition. Oh, and guess what - No charge for the ULEZ! Bonus! Was that because Rover went bust before they'd done all the analysis on exhaust emissions?
I don't know who provided the voice(s), but that mix of Southern and Valley Girl accents was... definitely a thing. 🤣
Very informative video,really enjoyed it.I worked at Longbridge on the Metro & 200 line for a couple of happy years before volunteering to transfer to Land Rover at Solihull.Fortunatly for me one of the best decisions I ever made, as it collapsed a few months later.Very unfortunate for the work colleagues who stayed there though.I was bought up in Longbridge & always thought that the plant would always be there forever lol as my Father had worked at BL as did my Uncle who got me an application form to work for Rover .Longbridge is now unrecognisable and you would never know a giant factory once stood there. Twenty Five years of service & I have recently been offered voluntary redundancy from Jaguar Land Rover.Again we head for some very uncertain times in the UK automobile industry and I honestly think that there is not much future in the car industry in the UK.
Tend to agree. Not looking to hopeful at jlr these days despite the investment
Glad you are back
I had a Rover 45 2.0 idt, loved it, great car, made me a great driver, and a great mechanic, broke so often I learned everything about that car... parts so scarce in eastern Europe had to scrap it and buy a Volkswagen... i really miss that car...
Had a 25 and a Streetwise many years ago. Both great cars. Except for various bits of trim falling off when you went over a bump XD
I owned a 1999 Rover 216 whilst living in New Zealand and found the only dislike to be the CVT auto.
i had a 216s ,served me well, sold it then upgraded to a 216 vitesse ,sadly that was written off by another car, enjoyed both these cars and shame there arent as many on the roads these days
I always wanted a Vitesse model! They all seemed to be black or BRG... not that I'm complaining as they looked good in those colours!
@@skylined5534 i must have had a rare one then it was white , and looked good at the time
@@peterbollans9982
Actually now you mention it I did see the odd white one and silver one too. I can only assume they're rare beasts now which is a shame!
At British Gas we had a large fleet of R8 200 / 400's . They were so much better than rivals, Specially if one was restricted to a 1.4, the K series with 102 bhp would wipe the floor with rivals 1.6 let alone 1.4's for performance.
I enjoy these videos when first watched was like less than 1000 views on the SDI, very well made with pictures and a good voice
You explain this complex agglomeration of makers very well. Thanks.
I owned a 1996 216 R8 SLI (although manufactured 1995) a few years ago and absolutely loved it! I was really blessed last month to have been able to review a Tomcat for my channel as well. Brilliant history covering everything from the Triumph Acclaim all the way to the collapse of MG Rover in 2005! Good to see that your channel lives again too.
Good to virtually see you again! I've subscribed to your channel.
@@BigCar2, thanks ever so much, I have been blessed to have gained a few more subscribers and a video about a Rover Tomcat since we were last in touch! Loved the last couple of videos, especially the one about the Triumph Stag. Can't believe how cheap both those and Rover R8s are!
@@lloydvehicleconsulting I was watching some of your videos. You have SOOOO much more knowledge than me on cars. I'm a "casual" car nut, with a history making in car entertainment software, but my channel is essentially me learning stuff about cars that I didn't know before. Kudos to such a great channel!
@@BigCar2, thanks ever so much! Apart from Tweed Jacket Reviews, which are filmed and edited mainly by my long suffering videographer Mr Franks or my friend Matt Richardson from furiousdriving, the videos on my channel are vastly inferior to yours in terms of research and production quality, so it is wonderful to hear that you like them and have learned something new from them. I am not really an expert, but I do get paid to advise people on car purchases, so I have picked up a modicum of knowledge over the years. Do you have a business e-mail address listed on your TH-cam contact page?
@@lloydvehicleconsulting You can find it from the "About" section of my channel, but it's bigcartv@hotmail.com
Great video. Brought back memories of my Rover 218, (Peugeot diesel) having a 93 mile commute each way (which I did in 90 mins each way!) it did a hell of a lot of miles, regular service, consumables and one glow plug is all it needed in three years. Still knew of the car when it had over 400,000 miles on it, magic! Liked my Rover 75 too. Both great cars.
I own a streetwise, and im really glad i do, its been completely and utterly reliable for me even at its old age of 19
Very well researched and presented video, thanks for uploading 👍
I'll never really forgive BMW for what they did to Rover. Closed half the dealerships when they were taken over, stopped Rovers from having premium features so they wouldn't cannibalise BMW sales, sold Land Rover to Ford after they had used their expertise to design and build the X5, delayed the release of the 75 estate so it wouldn't cannibalise BMW 3/5 series estate sales, and kept all the Rover designs for the new Mini for themselves because they wanted to compete with the Golf based new Beetle from VW.
The sting is that BMW then opened a Mini museum to celebrate the car's history in the 2010s... Except the museum is in Germany, not Britain. It's actually quite insulting when you think about it.
I guess that's the position we put ourselves in. Rover was a weak, ailing company, prime for such pillaging. It seems to have been on course for that since the '60s.
I've just discovered this channeI - absolutely fantastic and keep up the good work !! I had a brand new Rover 214 SEI in October 1994. Honestly the best car I've ever had !! I did over 120,000 trouble free miles in it, it handled brilliantly and it was revvy without being annoying, a lovely half leather interior and nicely equipped. It's such a shame that Rover was consumed by it's own ill conceived strategies :-(.
Welcome Steve!
Also had the 214sei one owner from new, such a great car to drive had loads of poke in the engine and the seats where great. Had it for 12 years head gasket finished it like most k series engines.
The SEis looked so good, my dad had a charcoal metallic on and it looked great, and the seats were so classy and sporty looking, with the hologram-like fabric in the middle.
The coupe and convertible did a lot to the model as well!
That MG 3SW looks pretty good.......nice little hot hatch.
When you were talking about the Triumph Acclaim, you pointed something very important out: BL's workers weren't lazy or incompetent; the management (which is invariably given immunity by the Press) gave them crappy designs and poor facilities to build them in. Maybe the time has come to start focusing on the mistakes of the top brass.
You have the best by far videos, I know I keep saying it but great job ! Keep on making these amazing videos !
I really loved the look of the Streetwise. It started a trend that's massive today!
I agree it started a trend, but I still don't like the rounded look of that version of the 200/25.
Volvo and Audi had both been selling raised, plastic-clad versions of their wagons since the late 90s.
@@boheyo And don't forget the VW Golf Country and the Fiat Panda 4x4!
Thats the issue I have with chunky plastic clad hatchbacks as they look like 4x4 ish but are just a jacked up family hatchback which is next useless and have no extra room
IIRC Toyota produced a car in Japan which preceded the Streetwise, VW Polo derivative, etc.
Possibly the most fascinating car story you're done to date.I was particularly intrigued by the 'new' Rover 200 and first BMW 1 Series design link. It seems Rover had some fine engineers, using their ingenuity and expertise to overcome budget, and two of the biggest worldwide car companies recognised this (and British Aerospace didn't, good ol' British management eh...), but learnt from Rover then walked away. I think the clumsiness of British Governments of the day come into play too, particularly in the case of Honda, who I thought were interested in a takeover?
Thank you for continuing your mini-documentary channel, in the face of TH-cam's anonymous messing around.
Thanks. This one took the most research to pull together, and I was happy with the result. I had a pretty simplistic view of the British car industry before starting this channel, so I'm learning along with everyone else. I was surprised about the possible Rover 35 / BMW 1-Series link and only found it out just before I finished the video. But I think the British Government didn't want to be running a car company (and shouldn't), like the US Government and GM in 2009. Of course the US Government managed to do a better job of restructuring GM and managed to get it back in private hands (with a small profit I think) in just a couple of years.
@@BigCar2 Your research was quite good up to the end of R8.
R3 (originally code-named SK3) started off with two objectives (1) to replace the Metro and (2) to fill volume lost to Swindon when the R8 Rovers were replaced by HHR (Rover 400) and Honda started UK manufacture themselves. SK3 was developed in the UK with support from Honda Engineers as opposed to every other project where Honda were largely in the driving seat. This was done because at the time it was in neither company's interest to have Longbridge volumes drop. The car was based on a cut-down R8 and as a result of the rear suspension design had too small an interior and load space, as well as being too expensive to build, relative to its size. In essence it was Astra sized with a Metro sized boot. This project was put on ice and then reborn as R3 (without any Honda input) when the rear end (BC post back) was re-engineered using a Maestro derived rear suspension which met all the class targets for space. It was a 4.0m vehicle with competitive boot space and interior against Escort and Astra which is why it was then badged Rover 200.
The BMW era replacement (R30 / Rover "35") was front wheel drive and based on the same platform technology as Rover 75 , being one of 6 products that were being planned (Rover 75 Saloon and Tourer were the first two). Whilst some of the exterior design ideas may have influenced the BMW 1 series, this car was developed as a joint platform with the BMW E90 3 series and shared nothing with the Rover R30 basic design.
I think BAe took on Rover to help the Conservative government/favour for Margaret Thatcher - they didn't have any long term plan for car manufacture and showed little interest in Rover once they bought it.
British cars have an elegance that other car companies don't have.But unfortunately most british car companies closed about 20-30 years after the British Leyland closed.Austin & Morris closed in the 90s Rover in the 2000s,triumph and Riley in the 60s-70s
From memory the 216 GSi used a sixteen valve head but operated, unusually, by a single overhead camshaft. Honda's Concerto was very similar to the 1989 Rover 200 hatch in terms of exterior styling.
Most of the Honda 16v motors were single cam but operated rocker arms and cam buckets much like the Dolly Sprint motor.
The few exceptions for Rover models being the D16 twin cam in some 200s and 400s and also the H23 in the 623 models. Some bloke did fit a VTEC H22 from a Prelude into a nice looking flame red 600 once, neat!
The Honda Concerto was a great idea - a luxury slightly bigger small hatchback - I thought it would sell but it didn’t. I would have had one in the early nineties if one turned up.
The 200 first edition was marketed in Portugal also as Triumph....
I’ve been watching your videos for a few years but have only just got to this. I’ve owned four Polos over the years (all mkII breadvans, including one post-1990 facelift model).
Unless I was unusually lucky and picked up a prototype, the Formel E was sold on the open market because I had a 1984 Formel E. it had a little orange light that told you went to change gears, and it had start-stop. Unlike modern start-stops, it restarted the engine when you moved the gearstick from neutral to first gear, not by engaging the clutch. To clarify, you were at the lights, engage the clutch, but ignition only happened when you threw the box into first.
Passed my test in Dad's M reg' Rover 218 SD 1.9L turbo Diesel in 2011 (a friend of ours still owns and regularly drives it), and my first car I've now had just over a decade myself is an X reg' 25 iL 1.4L petrol, so I feel very much at-home with these!
your work is great! thank you. glad i found the channel. super interesting.
Recently discovered this amazing channel and have since gone on a watching binge.
Informative and funny. Had me laughing out with the Mrs Bucket reference.
Look forward to many hours of great entertainment.
Glad you're liking them!
Love your vids and really miss rover cars I serviced so many rover cars so sad the government let them go down hill ,,!!
Had a Rover 418 (?) in France. Interesting vehicle: British made // Honda Civic engineering // Peugeot turbo diesel motor! But we loved it.
VW gearbox too
The intro was brilliant!
Owned a Maestro City as a young driver. It was cheap to run and very spacious inside. A nice metallic graphite colour. The downside was it was very basic and felt a bit tinny. It was underpowered. A car that size should have had a 1500 engin minimum. They should have re formulated the allegro engine.
"My boyfriend, Chuck, has a Ford Orion."
"You should *dump* him."
_"Totally."_
I'm dead. 😆💀
ETA: +1 for Hyacinth Bucket reference!
"The Bucket residence....the lady of the house speaking!"
My first car was a 11 year old Rover 400, the Honda engine in it was known for developing head gasket faults. I was glad to upgrade
The Honda engines never gave head gasket problems. The entirely rover developed k series engine had a history for blowing head gaskets. In saying that, we had 3x r8 200s, all with k series and no gasket problems for us luckily
@@TheRoverspeedcorrect. Also the K series was a good engine when first launched. Earlier cars didn't suffer anywhere near as bad. Penny pinching and cost cutting led to the head gasket issues
I had a rover 216 Vitesse as my first car, got 12 years and 214,000 miles out of it before sadly it had to go when it got to the stage that i was welding to the previous years welding none of the Honda parts apart from the central door locking switch ever went wrong, (ignoring wear parts of course).