Was The Last Ever Rover So Bad? Or Was BMW to Blame? 75 Road Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- Why did Rover go bankrupt? Was it down to BMW? UK Government? Or Was the Rover 75 Just a Terrible Car? In this video I test the 75 to find out if it was so bad as to be responsible for Rover's demise.. and outline the other possible reasons that this one venerable British car company went bankrupt.
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The 75 remains a beautifully styled car that, in my opinion, only keeps improving with age. I'm a serial Jaguar owner, but even I would have to admit that the looks knocked the S-type out of the park when the two were launched simultaneously and remains the better looking to this day.
The S-type was an embarrassing pastiche. The 75 was just a depressingly retro drear. Want to see retro done well? The first BMW mini.
I think you're right, I remember seeing them both at launch and feeling the Jaguar was trying too hard to reignite long lost emotions from the Mk2.
I remember being at the NEC motor show when the S type and 75 were launched, and there’s no denying that the 75 stole the show. The S Type had too much Lincoln in it, the styling was too much of a 60s pastiche, and it looked a bit tacky compared with the Rover, and the also recently launched Alfa 156, with which both cars were compared at the time. However, I have driven an early S Type, and I have to say as a luxury sports saloon, it was fantastic! The engine (a V6?) was brilliant - smooth at cruising speeds, with a suitable growl and pick up of pace when the accelerator was booted - it could be hustled around very well indeed. Nice auto-box, and exceptionally comfy seats. I’ve also owned a 156, which to my eyes and ears at least felt special, sporting, and was a hoot to drive. I’ve not driven a 75 - but I’d love too, either that or an MG ZT V6.
@gerardbooth40 I agree. The 75 is a very subtle and understated design on the outside. It doesn’t try too hard - very timeless. The inside less so, but the outside is timeless.
I had an S Type at 30-odd because i liked the looks and thought the 75 was styled equally well (loved the dash) but could see exactly where both had gone wrong. The average buyer wants new and exciting or to follow the current trend. They absolutely do not want the past. People might be nostalgic for the dim and distant but they don't want to pay for it.
For me as a Rover 75 driver, this report is completely incomprehensible.
My Rover 75 1.8 has been driving for more than 275000 km without any problems.
No starter, no alternator, nothing went wrong. The driving comfort is also excellent.
My brother drives a 7 BMW from 2002.
I don't have enough time to list the problems with this BMW.
And believe me, at the age of 65, I have already driven a lot of cars and can judge it. Now I have become a lover of these Rover 75 vehicles and don't want to be without them.
Greetings from Berlin Germany
I have a MG 75, which I bought 14 years ago because it was about to be scrapped, it looks so beautiful in trophy blue, sadly family events got in the way of me ever putting it on the road, but next year I hope to resolve that problem, yes it's suffered a bit from standing without use, but the alternative was the crusher, so I think I did the right thing. 😊
The Rover 75 was a great car. I had one. The company was already too small in terms of sales to be viable. The 75 was virtually unknown outside the UK. I would entertain business visitors, picking them up from the hotel to take them to the office. They would say “What’s this car? It’s beautiful.”
There were all over the place in Greece back in the days all of them ended up in scrapyards the first 5 years
@@tooltool5824 no they did not, you talk rubbish, utter UTTER rubbish, I have visited Greece many MANY times over the last 15 years, probably 40 times, and I see Rovers and MG's every visit, most of which are 75's and ZT's so stop lying.
Well said…the 75 was a fantastic car, there’s very little with wrong her! It was just that, BMW were absolute Bavarian bastards! And they were so stupid and selfish, they hadn’t a clue how to invest in Rover, they just bought her up thinking they could work wonders with her but, then realised what horrible mess they got themselves into and got of pretty lightly by asset stripping the company…🤬🤬🤬 They never gave the poor 75 a chance…
Many years ago (20+), whilst visiting Germany I met with a very senior engineer BMW engineer, who rather surprisingly to me, drove a Rover 75. I asked about this and he said that in his opinion it was the best car made by BMW Group at that time, which surprised me even more. I've never liked them but he was a huge fan of the 75.
Had a 75 Connaisseur with the wonderful 2.5l V6 and everying but the kitchen sink (and the TV) built in. Wonderful, wonderful car. Beautiful inside and out, quiet and fast. Better than the 3 series BMW and close to the 5 series. One of the best cars I ever had.
I had a 2001 2.0 CDT Connoisseur SE. With every option added, bar the satnav.
It was a brilliant car. British racing green with dark green full leather.
These were the staff card at the British Embassy where I worked in the 90s. I have fond memories of being driven around the crowded streets in one of these- probably one of only a handful in Japan
I think BMW just wanted the Mini and Land Rover brands.
Very true, and the alloy pressure molding system.
Why did they advertise the 75 so heavily in markets that had seen no Rover marketing for decades beforehand then? Doesnt make much sense to me...
and the Rover 45 replacement that was close to being finished , they took it and made it the BMW one series . And when they sold Rover they were not allowed to make a small car (mini type ) or a 4x4. Working in a garage for 17 years the 75 was very well made and reliable compared to French or Italian cars its leagues ahead.
BMW were only after the 4WD technology from Land Rover for their X series cars.
The R50/R53 was a Rover design even having a Rover code name and given the way it sold, I do feel it may well have played a key role in bringing in some much needed cash.
If it wasn’t for the workers going on strike all the time Rover wouldn’t of needed BMW but it’s easy to blame them rather than the work force for simply not wanting to work
Hi Jack, the reason the window switch feels floppy is because it's broken, someone has been a bit heavy handed there, the "eyebrow" trim above the radio is missing the trim piece that hinds those screws etc. the plastic slave cylinder in the bell housing method was used by lots n lots of manufacturers of the time, including Ford and Vauxhall, yes the 75 has it's faults, like every other car out there, but they're still great cars,
Yes I agree, you have a piece of plastic missing from under the dash trim. Mine has done 140k miles and the switches don't wobble about like yours.
@@notfiveo The 75 is very different to any 80s Rover.
The difference between Rover 75's and - for example - Volvos of that era is that things like the window switches are easily broken (or break themselves in the engine bay) on the Rover.
@lint8391 If you want to know why MG-Rover went bust, look no further than this comment. This is the sort of rubbish people came out with in the early 2000s and still go on about today.
The electric window switches are manufactured by Alps, the same company that produce them for BMW and no doubt countless other manufacturers too. There's nothing 'weak' about the switches, someone has physically broken it, just like I could in a Volvo or any other make if I wanted to.
Where do people come up with such crap.
Pleased that someone pointed this out!
My dad's last company car before he retired was a 75. It was a great car. Everyone who drove it thought it was too often better than they expected.
But they didn't then go out and buy one, did they?
Must've had some very low expectations
You didn’t mention Alchemy’s role in the demise of Rover. Their board stripped cash out of the business at an alarming rate leaving it broke.
No, Alchemy were the VC operation that tried to buy Rover Group when BMW were selling the business and never had any control over the company. It was Phoenix Venture Holdings that became the new owners.
Yes it was the Phoenix Group, but Nigel's point is still valid. When Phoenix took over Rover, BMW even gave them a half a billion pound loan (which it never asked for it to be paid back) to invest in the business. However, the Phoenix Board, under John Towers, simply fleeced the company to line their own pockets.
Yup, Towers and his fellow 3 feasted well. Whilst bleeding money they misstepped with bad decision after bad decision after bad decision.
@@Kelveron Mostly, that £500 Million was spent trying to stem the losses. And anyway, as I said above, £500 Million , even then was comparative chickenfeed when it comes to developing new models, new engines. The 'Phoenix Four' were easy scapegoats for the media. Alchemy were just a bunch of chancers who made their living from picking over the bones of dying companies. They had little to offer.
@@andrewpreston4127 The £500m was spent on vanity projects like the MG XPower SV, the RWD v8 version of the 75 and the Board's pension fund, instead of investing in new volume models that could make money for the company. Towers awarded himself £9m whilst nearly all employees lost their jobs. He then - along with the other directors of Phoenix - were disqualified from holding any company office in the UK. They were no scapegoats.
A couple of things I noticed, when the sale to BMW was announced (I was working at BAE HQ in Farnborough at the time who owned Rover) it was said in the corridors that Honda were so peeved that they terminated the partnership and all support to Rover on the day the takeover went through. The 75 was supposed to be both front and rear drive and the plan was to use BMW's 6's and V8's but BMW veto'd this due to perceived competition with their 3 and 5 series, so it remained a FWD platform only until BMW sold Rover and then Phoenix fitted the Mustang V8's in about 800 75's and ZT's.
Phoenix exec's / fraudsters should have been jailed -- yet again the public, and naive govt were conned.
This is what I had heard too - the Honda partnership was untenable after the BMW acquisition, I'm guessing due to the serious conflict of interests.
Hi Jack, I was one of the Press Tool Designers at Cowley when this car was being developed in the 1990s. The Body Engineering was state of the art using high strength steels and enough crash protection for potential US Sales. When I first saw the retro design in 1995 I thought that it maintained the RHona 400 family theme of being a bigger version of that car. It needed a tailgate. Suffice to say we got one in the Tourer which I think was an even better looking package when seen in new model development in 1997.
Great Video, Best Regards, Nick
We've got two in the fleet, well made, easy to work on, few real-world flaws and a refreshing alternative to the modern electric company car!! Love them.
I worked in a Rover dealership between 1991 and 1996. The early to mid 90s were a good period for them. They'd finally ditched the Maestro and Montego and the 200s and 400s were were pretty good. The Rover 200 coupe with the T series turbo engine was a genuinely quick car for the time and we used to do the warranty work for two of them for Ricardos who were using them for LSD development. The 200 coupes handled very well, looked nice and took some sales away from BMW.
I get the feeling BMW bought Rover to strip away Land Rover for the 4WD expertise as you mentioned and also gain expertise in FWD as they weren't doing that back then. I believe their 1 series was based on a Rover that never saw the light of day. Re: the Honda connection - in the garage we used to say the best Rovers were the ones with the Hionda engines as they were bulletproof and didn't leak. The 827 Vitesse was a great car and its T series turbo replacement had more power but less character.
I left before the 75 came out but people I know that worked for Rover still said it drove very well. I quite like the look of the touring version, particuarly in the MG guise.
We had a couple of rovers with the 1.6 honda engine. It was incredible. Smooth powerful and totally reliable. You just knew it would always start first time. It made the cars, I think. They also handled really well and were fun to drive.
I still like the look of the 75 as well.
The 800 Coupe was a great looking car too.
I had a 200 from new (1998). Had it ten years.
Personally I love the 75, I might be getting my Grandpa's when I turn 18
That would be a wonderful idea
Grandpa's...says it all
@@matthewlewis2072maybe grandpa owned it from new when he was a 25 year old …
Quickest way to age from 18 to 70 !
Thanks for being positive about the 75! My dad used to drive a Saudi Princess around London when she was at university in the early 2000's and this was the car they used. He drove the 2.5 V6 and it was a lovely car with good performance. Styling was fantastic (IMO) and it was a nice sky blue colour. I think it had a few issues with ignition coils but was reliable and had fewer issues than some of the more expensive BMW's the family owned.
Beautiful and Underrated car.
One engine option that you didn't mention from the Phoenix Consortium days, which was possible because of that transmission tunnel was the Ford sourced V8 as used by the Mustang and Crown Vic.
Became a fan of rover / mg after inheriting one a few years back. Rather than scrap I thought I’d put it to use. After i spent a bit getting it back on the road after being sat years , it has been probably the most reliable car I’ve owned! Most days I will spot a few 90’s / early 2000’s rovers on the road. Probably more than any other cars of the same era.
Jack, I'm nearly biting the bullet for a 75 and you're posting these things...
PLEASE KEEP MAKING VIDEOS ABOUT IT!
Rover 75 situation reminds me so much of jaguar x type situation. Both got reasonable reviews but press didnt help. Anyone whose driven or owned either car will know they are excellent Car's
Very similar levels of boring dowdiness as well.
Rover 75 a bit too retro and ride too soft/floaty. Meanwhile we test drove an early X type 2.5 automatic and that just would not stop charging gears all the time. Every 2mph would result in another gear change or 1 percent extra or lift off the accelerator. Must surely have been faulty.
@@paultasker7788 I've actually just bought a 2009 facelifted x type estate with the 2 2d transit engine 6 speed Automatic and its a cracking car. Cheap to run doesn't cost much to run and it drives like a e39 bmw 5 series which as bigger compliment as one can give
@@richsackett3423 yes agree but the x type was quite a quick car in its day if you had the 3.0 v6 was nippy.
The X were turds. A mondeo of the same period felt And drove better and had more cabin space, subjectively.
I own a -00. Proberly the best car I ever owned. I use it as a veteran car in summers only here in Sweden . It`s a beautyful car and I love the designs of it. I have other cars as well but in the summer it`s Rover time.
A Rover 75 came through the village in central Romania where I've lived since 2010 a few days ago. Possibly belongs to a hotel owner who has a house in the next village 6kms away and has a large collection of cars from 1950s to modern supercars.
Jack one thing you do to improve the looks is fitting a full size rear number plate that fills that whole space up back there, but that is just my opinion
I had a Rover 827 as a company car, and it was brilliant, I am just glad I wasn't paying for the petrol, when the 75 came out the company switched to the 5 series.
My understanding from some of the BMW engineers at that time was that the development of the 75 was quite tortious. Rover, after the Honda years, were out of practice developing motor cars from the ground up.
A lot what Rover came up with had to be reworked in Munich, which of course led to resentment and foot dragging in Rover‘s design office. Rover and BMW using incompatible CAD/CAM systems didn‘t help speeding things up.
Given the circumstances and the external pressures the 75 was a very respectable car.
Interesting info, thank you!
Worth adding a lot of senior BMW Executives were determined to sabotage the ambition of the 75 being a rival to the 3 Series. They blocked RWD.
Years later in the dying days the transmission tunnel was finally utilised on the Ford V8 powered cars.
"tortuous". Tortious means something else, and not totally irrelevant!
@@peterbrownless It was never intended to be rear wheel drive. It was designed for FWD from the outset. As mentioned elsewhere the so-called transmission tunnel was Rover's attempt to put more torsional stiffness into the car. When Phoenix had to convert it to rear wheel drive for the V8 models, the rear floorpan and the rear axle needed a complete re-work. You can even casually see this with half the spare wheel well in the boot blocked out.
The rear axle in the original car took cues from the BMW Z-axle design but again, they were not designed or engineered with any intention for rear wheel drive. Even BMW themselves had nothing to do with it. In fact, I do wonder if this design actually inspired the axle system that was put on the rear of the BMW Mini years later.
Important to note that BMW came in much later on the project and added some input into the body construction (chiefly, the roof section) but that was about it. The project had progressed quite far before BMW came onboard.
Their insistence on the zed axle wasn’t that popular at Rover because they already completed the design of the rear suspension. Integrating the zed axle meant more work and and resulting delays.
I had two of these and i absolutely loved them. They had the BMW diesel and they were just great cars. Obviously the styling is like marmite, but most passengers (albeit over 50) loved the sophisticated styling of the interior. Yeah really. My second one had the MG front end and nice wheels which made it much better looking. The back end was rock solid. On a flat road - or even a slight incline i could put it in first, take my foot off the pedal and it would just crawl along on idle with no problems. My first one had a knackered MAF, so i disconnected it altogether and still got 50mpg on a run. My second one had a "Ron box", so i could dial in power or frugality as i wished. On the main Rover 75 forum you never see any posts about problems with the engine. Its bulletproof, at least in the Rover. My first one still had the original exhaust at 275k (15 years) when i scrapped it (i had an argument with a lamp post when reversing in the dark and trashed the n/s rear quarter). The rear silencer box had mostly lost its outer skin, but it did not blow and still passed the mot!
Why did you not mention that the transmission tunnel is for the RWD 4.6 v8 version?
I'm a "dyed in the wool" Land Rover owner. However, there's always been a Rover 75 itch I've been dying to scratch. The guy up the road had an MG ZT V8 that was just a beast. I had my Freelander 1 V6 at the time which I turned in to a full blown rally car. I also had a Td4 Freelander which I also eventually turned in to a rally car. But, at the time, I really did covet that ZT !
A guy I knew well who broke Freelanders got me to follow him in my Freelander to the scrap yard where he was taking a Rover 75 estate . He paid peanuts for it and was offered what he'd paid for it by the scrapyard - and they'd remove the Td4 engine for him and deliver it back, which he'd then sell on to someone needing it for their Freelander. It was a fully loaded car in dark blue and drove beautifully. It's only faults being the aircon needed regassing and a full length scratch down it where some scrote had keyed it ! I did manage to get the chrome mirrors off of it at the scrap yard because I had some mad idea they'd look good on my Freelander. I just couldn't believe such a well presented vehicle was only worth scrap money at the time.
Strangely enough, I did spend a while looking at 75's and ZT's on Ebay a couple of weeks ago.
I drive an oddball in my country as well. A Buick TourX - which is an Opel Insignia Estate. Its like this, an odd but actually quite good vehicle. I'm also an old man as well, (54) and I have a Camaro as well, but for daily driving a car like this is just a lot more practical and economical.
Hi Jack, people also forget that Porsche were also suing other German companies (of which BMW Rover was one of) where they felt they were getting unfair subsidies or too favourable uncompetitive conditions. It wasn't just BMW they were taking potshots at, it was also VW too because of the heavy influence the Saxony government had on the VW board. I wonder if thats also what weighed in on on Blair's decision not to give money to Rover.
Love the red wine colour these cars came in. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
I love my 75. On yours theres a piece of trim missing above the radio and them window swirches are broken.
However one thing that does bug me is the clutch on my cdt. Its the heaviest clutch ive used. Sometimes it does start to make my knee ache
As a long time owner of Alfa 156s - I think still the most beautiful and still contemporary sedan of the last 30 years - I've always really liked the look of the 75. It's a really very stylish and timeless design. Not that you ever see many in Australia.
@johnphaceas7434
I love the shape. So stylish.
Own one myself and have for the past 7 years
Am in Australia here too.
I drove a long term rental 75 Tourer in Bergamo in the early noughties - dicing with 360's on the autostrada:) I really liked it. The BMW diesel was excellent (manual box) but the looks were very engaging and it was a comfortable bus with a bit of class about it. I had a 25 before the 75 and that was frankly horrendous. There was no comparison between the two and I thought that Rover could have turned themselves around with the 75 (the ZT was an interesting poor mans M car). But when I saw the restyle I knew Rover was doomed. Similar to what Fiat did to the Punto at the same time. Good luck with your purchase Jack.
My Wife went out to buy an MG & came back with one of these in metallic British Racing green with cream upholstery.
I could have strangled her but i would have been wrong!
Of all the cars she has owned (& there have been many...🤐)
This one stood out!
Beautifully made...
Aesthetically amazing...
Timeless (look at one today!)
Reliable...
Smooth as butter...
Comfortable in the extreme...
Amazing to drive ...
Excellent to be a passenger front or rear...
BMW killed this period!
It would have annihilated all their crap 3 series on which they were financially obligated at the time to make a success of.
I still see that car on the road occassionally.
Its IMMACULATE.........
Someone loves it & no wonder.
There is nothing like it on the road anymore other than the Jag XJ.
My Wife now drives a Jag.
There are no emoji's rude enough to provide you with my thoughts!
The 75 was a fine car - Rover design with some BMW input and money. It looked fabulous and rode like a dream. Time and the hordes of rusty E46's has shown that the 75 was a much better built car. What killed it? BMW made an almighty balls up of Rover, New Labour dithering did huge damage but really, the Rover name was dying by 1999. However, Bernd Pischetsrieder's launch day tirade - an act of industrial suicide - finished it off. If he'd kept his mouth shut, Rover would likely have pulled through and in 2023 we'd see two factories working flat out making a range of Mini, MG, Rover and Triumph cars. What a lost opportunity.
There were very few - if any - quality dramas with the original Cowley built 75. The odd niggle perhaps.
BMW didn't want the K Series as they were developing the N42 Valvetronic engine and building a big engine plant at Hams Hall to supply engines for BMW and Rover.
BMW wanted all of Rover Group and it's sub brands to increase it's overall volume. Land Rover's 4x4 experience? Not really. BMW immediately set to and green lighted the L322 that used a lot of BMW hardware.
I dont believe it would have pulled through at all really, even without the comments, sadly. Seems very unlikely to me.
Its just that its too expensive to develop a modern car to be sold at a mainstream price. No real platform sharing to speak of for the 75 either. You got to have really big sales volume to make it work. Volume that just wasnt there.
They advertised it pretty heavily in the abroad market where I am at, the first ever Rover ads I saw in my liftetime, let alone a respectable campaign. So it wasnt for lack of trying in that department. Though they did sell a few because of it, since I saw a few 75 around and I never saw a single larger Rover in traffic in years before, it surely wasnt enough.
The market was just too small to recoup the costs when sales margins are that comparatively low. The Rover brand had also ran its course even in the UK, seemingly.
I really like the rover / mg from this era. They are pretty rare nowadays here in Italy. I think it's a shame they didn't get enough time to prove they're worthy
Funny, I was not aware of the Rover 75 until your first video about yours. Then earlier this week I was watching an old episode of "Midsomer Murders" on PBS, and there was D.I. Barnaby rolling up in his personal car, a Rover 75! So, you are in good company Jack. Just stay away from bucolic little English villages. Very dangerous places, so it appears..... 😂
Jack makes the best car reviews by far! And he's such a nice bloke too. Thank you!
Should never have split with Honda ! They would have still be going if they hadn't.
British Government tried to sell it to Honda. Honda point blank refused, even refusing to see a delegation that travelled to Japan. All well documented.
When BMW appeared on the horizon they were embraced... and then screwed over when they asked for investment from the Govt. The same idiots that always paid up when Nissan came calling.
You are correct
I doubt the masses would be flocking to buy a Rover Jazz
In the early 2000s I recall trying to replace a 214 (nice car) with the incoming 200 (that later became the “zr” i think) but it was a smaller car and was priced as if it were in the bigger car sector. Even interested customers couldn’t justify the cost. So i doubt it was one model, rather a bad business plan
Great video as usual. I really like your approach to reviewing too.
Zero ego and well spoken. I'd love a review on the Renault 25 if you ever get the opportunity. Keep up the good work 👍🏼
Thanks buddy, will definitely do a 25 if I can get hold of one!
I was living in Singapore when I first saw one of these parked near my home, fell in love with its looks and bought one myself - the V6 petrol version. It was a lovely car through and through. I once drove it with three of my team as passengers all the way to Kuala Lumpur for a meeting at Petronas Towers. On the way back another team member drove it, and remarked that it was better than a Mercedes.
The 75 and ZTs were solid cars. Very stable, quiet and seemed to drive themselves. The interior was a bit cramped for the driver - a bit “knobbly”. Its still one of the best looking cars on the road though.
It was killed by that infamous speech by BMW on launch day. Unbelievable.
A Gerald Ratner moment, when he called his expensive range "total crap"
At least Pischetsrieder got sacked for this. But the damage was done and I guess there was a common position at BMW mgmt on the whole Rover involvement and absence of ROI
I seriously doubt that, that seem like a way too "car enthusaist" centric mindset and "myth" if you will. I dont believe this made much of a difference at all, if they were going to hit the sales volumes they needed.
Its just that its too expensive to develop a modern car to be sold at a mainstream price. No real platform sharing to speak of for the 75 either. You got to have really big sales volume to make it work. Volume that just wasnt there.
They advertised it pretty heavily in the abroad market where I am at, the first ever Rover ads I saw in my liftetime, let alone a respectable campaign. So it wasnt for lack of trying in that department. Though they did sell a few because of it, since I saw a few 75 around and I never saw a single larger Rover in traffic in years before, it surely wasnt enough.
The market was just too small to recoup the costs when sales margins are that comparatively low. The Rover brand had also ran its course and wasnt seen as desirable even in the UK, seemingly.
That was indeed one good looking car; I wish Toyota or Honda could've made a car that looked this good and was also high quality/reliable. I would buy a car like that in a flash.
Just love your clips Jack. Keep up the great reviews along with the great content you enjoy so much giving us :)
I can remember doing a post graduate study course where Rover in the early days of BMW ownership was being held out as an example of strong EQ management. The thesis was that they bought the company they did not impose all the BMW systems and processes (and rigour) and they wanted to respect Rover's heritage and wanted them to be more than simply rebadged BMWs. Ultimately though this meant that BMW made assumptions about Rover that may have been better diagnosed through the adoption of their more of their systems and processes. In particular the lack of engineering and design capability which had been lost through the era of using Honda underpinnings and a lack of a consistent brand identity across the company's workforce that meant they struggled to design a car that would attract new customers as their current customer base aged.
While it was a sanguine lesson for BMW it was offset by the fact that they made money selling engines to Land Rover for an extended period, they spun Mini off into a successful brand albeit one built using entirely German systems and processes and ultimately it was no where near as big a hit to BMW AG as the subsequent Chrysler deal was for their main competitor Mercedes AG.
I got my diesel connie with 30k on the clock and put another 110k on it. Lovely car. I reckon your window buttons arent connie ones - mine were chrome plastic and nice - after a good clean up. Steering - tyres and tracking - sort it and it makes a big difference. Drop links are a 'service item...' check them. And the front springs. Put some flexible curtain rod down the drains in the sun roof and the scuttle to save the ecu. And then go buy a plugin android unit and get gps, DAB etc as well as reversing cameras. Loved mine. Long distance comfort and hilarious to chuck down a country road on the heels of something much more thrashable. Oh and there's 170bhp in that engine for very little work indeed.
Having owned a few 75s, I'd say the Rover is better than the equivalent 3 Series of the same vintage. Unless it's petrol.
Except the E46 was what the buying public wanted. Which is where the retro thing falls down - people want up to date not the 1950s (and I like both cars!)
@@smorris12 I'd say people wanted a better 'Badge' more than the E46 being a better looking or driving car.
I had a Rover 620 Ti ..... absolutely loved it. So sad to have seen Rover go.
I like where youre going with the channel Jack well done !
Great review I had a75 with the BMW diesel engine loved it a poor man’s Rolls Royce. My example was a deep red metallic but your black model looks stunning and leather is a must, great looking car still!
The window switches are normally good there will be some pins broken on the switches.
They can be replaced in seconds without dismantling anything !
The little hood you mentioned above the radio ........
There is a plastic shield missing so that's careless reassembly by someone fiddling with the stereo.
The doors should close superbly, again that must be misadjusted or been in smash?
Re the Jatco 506e gearbox selector feel:
There's a nylon bush slips down on the selector shaft at the box end.
If it's not that then it is poor workmanship again not lining the detent of the selector with the detent of the box if someone's been medaling and not adjusted the cable properly.
The shifter normally feels very positive.
Re the handling.....
You'll be driving one of the project drives ie The rear Anti-roll bar was deleted completely ruining the fast cornering properties the pre 2003 cars had ⚠️
You need to drive an early low mileage pre 2001 model.
They really are night & day 👍
Good review.
Wonder how long you'll keep it.? 😃
@Jules75ZT
Specialist in North Wales
I remember my neighbour had a 75 (2.5l) as a company car back in the day. I drove it once or twice and i thought it was a really nice car, especially if you were driving a lot of motorway miles.
great video. I was a Rover dealer when this was all going on and I'd say you are bang on. I remember driving some of the pre production prototypes of the 75 (as part of the dealer council) and speaking to the engineers who designed a lot of the car. The issues was the BMW standards of quality and the Rover (Long bridge) standards were miles apart. BMW certainly lost patience for sure. That said they had developed a lot in the time they had the company, The new Mini was on the horizon, the replacements for the Rover 25 and 45 were in advanced design (this then evolved as the 3 and 5 door BMW 1 series, so BMW got their moneys worth) and of course not to mention the technology and patents they got from LandRover. The demise of Rover was finalised but then selling the factory etc off to the "Phoenix 4" who then proceeded to asset strip the company and ride off into the sunset having reportedly "trousered" 25million each. Yes another sad day for the UK motor industry and all the poor folks who lost their jobs. I was really interested to hear that the UK govt refused to give BMW more government cash, at the time this was a bit of hearesay and we were told as dealers this was part of the reason for the sell off to Phoenix 4 but we didn't entirely believe it. It was a blow for us at the time as we had 5 Rover sites thats sold a lot of vehicles. Interims of the Rover 75, I'd agree with you that the early cars were top class especially compared to the "Re-bodied Honda Accord" Rover 600 and the simply Awful Rover 820 which was a terribly car that could only be sold with a massive discount. Great channel, you've got a new subscriber.
Interesting stuff Jack! I really enjoyed that!👍
Very few people know this, but a 75 was supposed to be included in the boat chase at the beginning of the Bond movie ‘The World is not Enough’. An Odyssey Blue launch 75 was in the pool of cars at the Historic Dockyard in Chatham, Kent that doubled for London for the on-land portion of the chase. However, sadly, the car never made it to screen.
How do I know this? Well I was there for a couple of days watching filming in April 1999. Later on I found a “making of” book on the movie with a Rover logo on the front presumably given out to employees.
So the car missed out on some much needed publicity from the Bond franchise too!
Without a doubt a BMW Company executives idea too cut it!!
Pal of mine had a promotion in the early 2000’s. This meant an “executive” car upgrade. He wanted a 75 but was told it wasn’t upmarket enough and ended up with BMW 520. They did suggest a Jaguar S type, but he wasn’t having that.😂
You hit the nail on the head when you said the PRESS HAD SLATED IT as an old mans car, to such a point it was beyond the public's view when wanting a new vehicle! After that it was all equally down to BMW, Honda & in particular the government of the day failing to support the UK industrial workers! There was nothing inherently wrong or bad about the Rover 75, There was a bit of controversy over its "Retro" styling as being aimed at the older buyer!
Having owned a number of Rover cars over the years in my opinion the best one was the P6B, closely followed by the original Rover 214/6! they were without doubt they had exceptionally good handling and road manners! The comfort level was good for the price range (better than Ford's & Vauxhall's & Peugeots)
I had the 1.8 bought 2 weeks before Rover went bust. Really was a lovely car. It was a little under powered. I had it for 5 years. Finally it started losing water, it was the known head gasket problem. Got it fixed and then sold it. Apart from the gasket problem it was a lovely car.
Lots of issues. Greed mainly. British government shouldn't have let it be sold to BMW with such a good partnership with Honda already in place. BMW was a terrible marriage. They basically wanted the brands Mini, Land Rover etc. People have short memories. I remember the backlash to BMW. Graffiti sprayed at showrooms etc. Sadly i think if Honda took over we might still have Rover cars today.
I like it and since I have never seen a Rover of any sort in Texas ... I can appreciate the throwback or DNA attempt at styling even without understanding any of the detail. But as something of an enthusiast I enjoy that sort of thing. For example I have loved the styling queues of a 1st generation Lincoln MKZ, appreciating its real wood and 'Bridge of Weir' leather. While most people will simply dismiss it as an old man car ... and buy whatever society deems 'cool' at the second with less than zero appreciation for the marque/history/styling queues. But if one sees a car as a toaster ... I understand their indifference - even if I find it lazy and lemming like.
A Texan might remember the Rover 800 series as a Sterling 825 & 827. Sterlings were sold in Houston from 1987 - 1991 along side Acura Legends by Honda dealers. They were touted to be English flavoured Acuras but too many of the British flavourful bits failed too quickly in the Texas sun.
@robertschlemmer5039 I recall 'Sterling' in print advertisements only. Body lines and mechanicals were pure Honda. Little chrome grill (perhaps with available British Racing Green) with little Union Jack logo ... and perhaps a bit of wood glued to the dash ... all for notably more money than a Honda. Struck me as about as truly British as a bucket of Vindaloo would seem to my Brit ancestors of 1600s Leeds. And that XJ6 Series III was pretty much concurrent and the real deal.
Stunning car in my opinion. That 75 looked more luxurious than the Jags of the time. I'd own a 75 now such is how nice it looks
I came on this by accident, I'm not a car enthusiast.
But I think I have a small contribution to make .
I met the Head of BMW UK, at a barbecue in Oxford. The host was a German friend who lived in the same street in West Oxford as the BMW guy . This must have been around the very late 90s.
We talked about his job overseeing Rover, it became clear that he ascribed Rover's difficulties to a perception problem in the UK.
He told me that in Germany, Rover had a good reputation and sold well. They had been impressed with the standard of engineering at the UK works and were excited at the prospect, but admitted it would take a great deal of money to get the plant up to scratch.
To paraphrase him
"The Rover is a bank manager car, and the English don't want to look like bank managers, so we couldn't sell that look here,it surprised us "
Great review Jack, I think the 75 is a very good looking car, the 75 Tourer looked even better, it's one of those car's that has stood up well over time, unlike the Jaguar S-Type,
was a crying shame what happened to Rover, I think some of the blame has also to be laid at the work force for building shoddy cars & certainly Alchemy, the famous 4 who stripped the assets of the company, for their own gain. 👍
More govt naivety, Labour taken for a ride twice
It wasn't Alchemy. It was Phoenix Consortium that stripped it to bits. The Government didn't let Alchemy take Rover as they were just going to make two cars (75&MGF) which would've cost people their jobs.
Maybe of Alchemy Group got Rover it would still be here!
The story of Rover is tragic - a combination of bad management, government restrictions and trade union confrontation.
I always liked the look of the 75 (and many previous Rovers) and feel very sorry that the Rover story is over.
Ford had issues with the trade union at Jaguar I believe that's why they have up and sold Jaguar on
Thanks Jack for a very fair and objective view of the Rover 75.
I bought a 75 years around 2007. Was warned about head gasket issues. Still bought one. It was beautiful. Head gasket went. Twice.
Still loved having that car. Got an S-Type after that.
I had a fairly standard 1.8 petrol which was comfortable and quiet without being a heavy lump. Unfortunately the 1.8 was bad for blown head gaskets, mine had one with little provocation. I think the shape could have been transformed into a very nice 2 door coupe with a soft top option.
The passing of an era
A very well analysed video with a sufficient amount of detail to offer a valid opinion. Enjoyable as well. One thing you omitted regarding the demise of Rover was the involvement of the company, Phoenix. Were they not responsible for the final collapse ?
A story I read at the time of Rover's sale by BAe to BMW was that despite more than a decade of cooperation between Honda and Austin Rover, Honda were never invited to tender an offer for Rover. Honda, apparently were very insulted and since most of the range (apart from the Mini, Metro and Land Rover) were Honda-based, this is why Honda demanded high license fees for continued use of Honda technology. Later on, after BMW asset stripped Mini, sold off Land Rover and cut loose Rover, Rover went cap in hand back to Honda for a new partnership, they were told to sling their hook.
Nice and unusual choice these days. These were best buy when few years old as back than good examples were not hard to find and depreciation was huge. Nowdays its really hard to find a good one in good spec as well. Especially outside UK. Few tips to yours otherwise great video. Project drive had much larger impact on car than just few badges and clips removed . The thing was they were subsequently changing manufacturers of parts from more expensive to cheaper...and cheaper were cheaper for a good reason. So if you compare 1999 built 75 with the one from 2003, there were close to no identical parts in interior. Many look the same but were actually made by different supplier for different money (different materials, absence of isolation materials etc). Hence window switches were made of pathetic plastic, dash was plastic imitation instead of real wood, etc etc...with facelift it went even far worse with proor lether, carpeting etc... So if you like you can replace those switches with smooth gloss ones from 1999-2001 models witch are way better, and with radio best option is to upgrade with android 2 din radio as e46 had. Btw plastic above radio is missing on yours but is otherwise there so you can obtain that. For further help there is strong following on 75/ZT forum and facebook groups nowdays where you are mostly welcome and can receive much help and info. Many happy miles I wish to you :D
To be accurate, the Tritec (new Mini) engine wasn't really a Chrysler engine... it was made in Brazil as a joint venture with Chrysler, originally set up with Rover, before BMW came along.
Not entirely true. BMW also had a stake in it. Hence the “tri” name (between the 3 different countries) Rover originally wanted to use the K series, but BMW put a stop to that (probably future proofing themselves before the asset stripping started 😂)
It had the advantage of being federalized though and could be sold in the USA whereas the K Series was not and it's expensive to go through.
I had a proper Rover 200 TD (green) and it was well build. I then changed to a BMW built 25 (silver) and it was a bucket of bolts. Screws had been changed to push scrivits, the overall build quality was atrocious and what actually killed it in the end was bodyshell rust, something that you should not even have to worry about in a car but this was structural as well and once the rot got within 30mm of the seatbelt anchor points the car was an MOT failure, and no amount of welding was going to fix that. BMW cheapened the Rover design so much that the build quality was poor when compared to the earlier true Rover examples, as I remarked "I have an engine (Rover L series) that is looking for a car". My experience put me right off of genuine BMW examples when I was car shopping in later years, once bitten by the BMW build quality bug you tend to keep well away.
Great video on the 75 Thanks
Why does the government have to subsidize car companies.
My Dad had a 75, it was gorgeous and the design and interior both hold up well to this day. It's still a good looking car and a future affordable classic.
For what it is worth - we had a retired senior GM engineer who lived near us. Having started with Vauxhall at Luton, he went to Opel in Germany and eventually finished his career as one of the team sent to "sort out" Saab in Sweden when GM acquired it (apparently it was a bit of a nightmare...).
His view was that the rest of the motor industry was had always been amazed by what BMW had done with what were (by the standards of its competitors) limited resources. It looks like BMW bit off more than it could chew when it acquired Rover, and probably the resources needed to produce a second parallel range (or third if you include Land Rover) were simply not there.
I haven't had a 75, but ive owned 2 MGZT 190's. The first was a 53 plate in silver with rhe mk1 front end with twin headlights, the 2nd one was a face-lift on a 55 plate. That was a black ZT 190 SE. I removed the facelift bumper and headlights, replacing it all with a mk1 bumper and twin xenon healights with a seat FR splitter. I loved both of those cars and loved the sound and performance of the 2.5 v6's. The 55 plate, i owned twice. And to this day regret selling it. Brilliant cars!
It is interesting you highlight the gauges as a good design. I agree they look great but like pretty much all cars built after the early 80’s, I hate the fact that the gauges are so small that there is little resolution to the speedometer. Nowadays you always get a digital readout for precision but I miss the days when you got nice big finely calibrated gauges like the series 1 - 3 XJ6 for example. Maybe it’s just me.
As mentioned in my comment, I still own a Rover 618si. The one thing I always find is that people come over to ask me, "what's that car", because although not as superbly styled as the 75 the 600 still stands out for sheer beauty in any car park, even in 2023.
A very nice car, always fancied the estate car personally.👍👍
Loved both my diesels, great motorway cars. The diesel can be tuned to the point you worry about the clutch, or you can waft about in comfort. Not bad for towing a horse box too.
One of my most loved cars was an early Oxford blue Connoisseur Auto CDTi Tourer(estate), I think that was the sweet-spot. Got it low mileage (came from the Channel Islands) and ran it for 80k+ miles. Really loved it - although diesel it was extremely quiet. Got reasonable economy, handling was very good (perhaps slight added rear weight of the tourer balanced it better?) and it's ability to smooth-out the rough country road bumps was almost as good as the refined way it cruised on the motorway. Having had several VAG group cars before I found the quality of the interior a bit wanting in some areas, but generally it was pretty good and the design was very nice. All round the body and mechanicals were spot-on, and mine even had the fuel-fired-heater which aided warm-up times in cold weather. Probably the most sensitive car to tyre choice I've ever owned - when I got it, it has some cheap off-brand tires and I thought I'd got a lemon, switched to some Goodyears and the car was transformed. The only real bugbear was the reason why I got rid of it in the end - the Diesel 75's had a 'saddle' fuel tank, which lead to fuel starvation and eventual lift-pump failure, however, the injector pump was powerful enough to pick up the slack and keep the car going, until the additional strain lead that to fail too. Once this happened, you were forever chasing the fault, not knowing when and which fuel pump had failed, after the 4th or 5th time of being stranded and then replacing pump motors, I gave up and sold the car.
Despite that, I really miss the car and if I could find a similar spec as a 2.5 V6 in decent condition, I'd have it in a flash (doesn't have the fuel pump problem, even smoother and quiet, better suited to the auto-box, R75 V6 generally very reliable-barring the variable inlet butterfly valves, it's only real drawback is it's a bit thirsty)
You have to replace both fuel pumps at the same time !
@@secretarchitect288 yeah, know that now, but sadly it was sold to me with the lift pump already failed and without any knowledge of the history and precious little cash at the time it seemed like a straight forward fix… :(
The styling was aimed right at the pipe and slippers market whereas other makers were appealing to younger buyers who were the future. Personally, I loved the styling, but then I'm now in my mid sixties. Unfortunately, I then got to drive one (1800 petrol) and was surprised by its lack of refinement and heavy fuel consumption; it was also obvious that a lot of the "upmarket" trim was actually cheap and nasty plastic (but you've already said all that). Throw in the British Government, Pischetsrieder's speech and the Phoenix 4 and the inevitable happened, although the problem probably had its roots way back in the formation of BMC.
Ok.. but the Mini was also retro styled and that was a huge hit… as was the FIAT 500.. ?
I agree, but I do believe the main thing is in your first sentence: I believe in the end the other factors werent that important, its just that its too expensive to develop a modern car to be sold at a mainstream price. No real platform sharing to speak of for the 75 either. The market was just too small to recoup the costs when sales margins are that comparatively low.
@@Number27they LOOK GOOD and appeal to YOUNG PEOPLE
Agreed, but I don't think it's retro styling per se that is the problem, but rather the type of retro image it is trying to portray. As I said, I personally liked the look of it, but there probably weren't enough sad old gits like me to make it viable. Oops! I've just realised I've been very rude to you - sorry!@@Number27
It was always an old man's car to drive to the golf course, when we all wanted a BMW/Merc/Audi I had one as a temporary company car for a few months, it was well built and comfortable, also a diesel auto, felt very heavy and slow. I look forward to seeing you in a blazer & crevat as the car's personality takes over!
I'm afraid there's lots of after market items in that car, such as the auto-gear knob, and the fake plastic wood trim around the HVAC and electric windows. The electric window switches are BMW units with remoulded plastic - I think the previous owner broke it by fitting that fake wood. Also, it's missing the trim underneath the 'brow' that is above the head unit.
Great video Jack. I bought a Rover 75 new in 2003 and always thought it was a great looking car both outside and in. It had leather seats and was a comfortable car to drive even though it had a rather heavy clutch. Mine had the BMW 2.0 litre diesel engine in it with a manual gearbox which gave it more than adequate performance and decent fuel economy. I ran it for 300,000 kms over 17 years and it never gave me any trouble. I only sold it because it was getting difficult to find parts for it in my part of the world (southern Spain) though I understand it has a good support group in the UK.
As to the demise of the company, it was pretty obvious that BMW was only interested in Land Rover and the Mini brand and never put much into the company to develop new models and the Phoenix Four stripped all the assets of the company to boost their pension plans. A great shame as there was a great heritage behind it (I also owned a 3.5 litre V8 P6) and with a bit of interest from the UK government, could probably have been saved.
Lovely looking car with the four headlights , totally underrated , future classic
I’ve always liked the 75 (both Rover and the totally unrelated Alfa!). It is a handsome car, and I liked the nod towards the old Rovers, especially the pre-facelift models. It was probably a combination of all these factors, although the Honda position is probably more related to BMW not doing due diligence. It’s a shame the BMW didn’t take more of an approach akin to that of VW group, and support it better during the transition. Instead they seemed to take the Gerald Ratner approach to marketing. it would be great to have seen a return of Rover to a luxury car maker, such as the reputation during the time of the P5B.
I had a diesel manual 75. It was let down by unreliability. Fuel leaks from the filter housing and engine bay fuel hose.
Compare and contrast that to the Volvo 850's, V70's and XC90 diesels I've owned that have all been relatively reliable and dependable.
Lots of cars have a plastic clutch slave cylinder attached to the thrust bearing inside the gearbox bell housing. They are reliable and are replaced when the clutch itself wears out. A really routine type repair. Scrapping a perfectly good car just because it needs a new clutch would quickly fill up the scrap yards.
Very interesting to hear your thoughts on the Rover 75! I'm probably going to buy a car in the next year and this is one that I've been considering, they seem quite cheap. I was considering Jaguar X-type as well. It's weird because I never gave the 75 much attention or really noticed them but now I'm looking I think they are very attractive, much better than the Jag in fact, more classy in my opinion (pre-facelift particularly). It has a very 'Bentley' look especially at the back but the whole shape is very unified and 'smooth', looks like a luxury car. I'd probably go for a diesel as well, running costs are very important for me and honestly I'm not bothered about 'performance'. I want something that will waft me between Scotland and Sussex in style and comfort. Or maybe I'll go mad and get an MGBGT! Any suggestions?
Maybe consider a Volvo S80. . . Luxury, reliability and 60+ mpg
75 great car
Get a auto diesel Tourer! They are the bomb!
@@micksroversmg558 except they rot like hell and have a calendar instead of a Speedo.
@@Norfolkbiker50 Ha ha no worse than cars of same era all cars rot like hell if not looked after most have fared well and many still survive!
Great video Jack, as always.
We all have our own opinions on the demise of Rover as a brand of course. For what it is worth I think Bernd Pischetsrieder didn't get to be BMW chairman by accident, he is a shrewd, intelligent, and highly competent business man as were BMW's owners. The bottom line is; if a major competitor in your sector from a foreign country purchases your business, it is to take the good bits, strip the saleable assets and phase out the brand as a whole. BMW are not a charity, they are a competent, ruthlessly successful business.
I believe in the end the other factors werent that important, its just that its too expensive to develop a modern car to be sold at a mainstream price. No real platform sharing to speak of for the 75 either. The market was just too small to recoup the costs when sales margins are that comparatively low.
We had one in the car pool where I used to work. It had been leased for a sales rep but at only 18 months old it had so many faults it was useless. The wing mirror adjustment had failed so both mirrors pointed at the ground, the indicator stem sagged and would drop if you didn't hold it in place, the seal around the rear window didn't work so the boot filled with water when it rained and the carpet was mouldy, and apparently rear window demister had never worked at all !
I had a Rover 75 Tourer bought from new in 2000. I had it until 2011 and it was the best car I have ever owned. When new, and being driven on the continent, I had people coming over to admire it and ask me about it.
I had an extended test drive in the 75 when it first launched. Despite the car feeling like a good car, it didn't impress me enough to make me switch from my Passat, which was something of a shame as I wanted to go back to driving a British car again.
I had two Passats and my father had a 75 v6 2.0. The Rover felt special, had better steering, the ride was superb and the car looked beautiful. The Passats were just typical Germanic efficiency, did the job but rather boring. The press did the 75 no favours at all. The press promote German cars and we have our roads full of German cars for that very reason, press has sold German to the British as the best.
@@a0r0a7 Totally agree with you there about press! German build quality is a myth and as much as a love the 75 the Honda rover cars are best for reliability and robustness of suspension component's by far as my year 2000 420 diesel is still on all factory shockers date stamped November 99 and was a January 2000 registered! All springs look factory and car has covered over 250k miles and still starts and stops and drives fine! The car has better body than most cars half its age! It has been best £300 car I have bought in a long time!!
What a great car. I had the pleasure of having a 420i as a loan car while my company car was in the garage. Very solid, upmarket feeling car and boy did that car fly.
@@a0r0a7 My brother got 420 Gsi with turbo engine in it that's one fast old car!
@@micksroversmg558that was the model, 420gsi. It went like stink.
I hear ya Jack, it happened to me too - if only the British government had given me a bit more money maybe I wouldn’t be in this situation today.
Rubbish. Rover had been on life support for years, incompetence from top to bottom killed it.
@@matthewlewis2072 oh dear
I had a 114gsi it was rubbish I mean total rubbish
I had a Rover 75 as rental car on a family vacation in the UK and was impressed how well it felt. The only thing was that for our 5 people family, the space was not appropriate. Looks very good to this day!
Had one as a hire car for a trip years back - one of the passengers complained about the lack of interior space (having been the one who had upgraded from a 'basic' hire saloon), but I found that it was fine for a six-hundred-mile round trip, and I liked the design touches like the dial shape and colour, and the body style. Also agree that the 'facelift' headlamps were a mistake - the original was better. I recall a journalist's review when they got a pre-launch test drive, in which he said he was often asked if it was a new Jag, from the appearance.