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Is It Different THIS Time? The Army Painter Saga SpeedPaint 2.0... Full Background Lore & Warnings
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.พ. 2023
- Army Painter is Releasing their new Speedpaint Line, after less than a year 2.0 is Here...
The Full Lore, and Warning Signs!
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Speedpaint Complete Set 2.0. $379
70 Colors
10 Metallics
100ml Medium
3 Brushes
Plastic Pallet
Speedpaint Megaset 2.0. $199
50 Paints
Brush
Pallet
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Speed Paint is what makes it look like I have talent. Army Painter is very cost affordable for hobbying. I'm looking foreward to getting the new line in a couple months!
i dont know about your talent in particular, but i agree, they are great and affordable. Companies should still be honest though, no matter how great their products are!
@@WarHammerMan I'm a no talent hack from the Satanic Panic days. I just like gaming and hobbying. I feel like they wanted the original Speed Paints to be a one and done solution, like their Dips, and thats what they pushed. That's how I use them, at least. My character models are lucky to get a couple of awkward highlights, but everyone gets a healthy dose of varnish.
@@justarandomname420 haha nice. i love this style of painting, i'm so glad Slap Chop made it popular. i've always been an advocate for the hobby, and love to see people enjoying it, not to mention their amazing creations. I think the product is good, and its different, but should be marketed appropriately. i do like that they have been taking in feedback, and trying to fix the issue.
How were they not honest? They literally showed you how and why they redeveloped them? Who else does that? Sound like a Citadel apologist.
@@KindHumanity correct, they did all the stuff you say, after being exposed... thats like being a good citizen, after getting caught committing a crime... you're still a criminal no? lmfao. if i'm a citadel apologist, you are a delusional youtube commenter. lol
I haven't encountered any problems with mine. Sand golem has become my favorite color.
sand golem is really nice. once you know what to look out for, or how to avoid the reactivation, its not nearly as big a problem. i think a lot of it depends on your painting style
I don't really get why so many people have dragged the original line so hard. Especially don't understand why people are dragging AP for trying to make people happier with the paints. Feels like "hate for clicks" stuff pretty often.
The ironic part is I tend to put a matte vanish over my models after the speedpaint/contrast step anyway, as I spend a lot of time pre-shading and since I never trust myself to not screw up the highlights. That way if I do, I can easily remove everything back to the the speedpaint/contrast step and start over. IT's not a big deal, really. I felt like people were going out of their way to crucify Army painter over this.
It seems like they tried to market the original speed paints as a one and done solution, which is awesome for getting armies on the table. That's how I took it at least.
Tabletop standard is what it's for.
ya but thats not what beginners do, and its not how it was marketed... even if its not a problem, why wait until after its exposed as an issue, and then put out a quick response... why didnt they disclose you needed to varnish ahead of time? i like Army Painter, i want them do do well, i have paints that are 30 years old... 1 year after 1.0, they put out 2.0. so do we just throw the old, reactivating army painter 1.0 in the trash, and buy these? i'm just saying. the issue isnt the paint... its the honesty.
It was literally called “all in one paint”……
I didnt realize this was a thing until trying to use Grim Black on my warriors of chaos boots.. it kept reactivating trying to do a 2nd coat & I had to just pull out my Abaddon Black to go over it all.
ya its crazy to think a product from a company this big, could make it all the way to the customer, with such a basic flaw. then trying to tell people your 1 step painting solution. for beginners, requires a cot of varnish between steps... as if thats normal, is freaking INSANE! cheers
LONG RANT.......
I'm 62, and a bit set in my painting methods. I'm an Old Skool military wargamer so a bit of an odd man out when it comes to these TH-cam tutorials and reviews - 99% of them address painting fantasy figures which, in my opinion, is not comparable to painting historical figures.
Like comparing impressionism to expressionism.
Anyway, I bought the mega-set of Army Painter Speedpaints and tried them on some Persian Immortals and SYW Prussians - DREADFUL. Puddly looking with contrasts from dark to translucent almost white over the recommended white primer. I tried various primer colors before painting the Persians and the results can be best described as looking like something a 7 year-old would have painted with cheap discount store watercolors.
I sold the AP set on EBAY for half of what I paid for it.
Vallejo - I just ordered its version of the mega set despite not being impressed at all with the results in Flying Ravens review (which I appreciate because he's giving a forthright opinion and not trying to work around the paints faults and be an advertisement). As a military gamer into Ancients and musket periods I need large armies, and large armies are time consuming and monotonous to paint. It's not so much of not having the skill to paint decent figures or being lazy that attracts me to contrast paints, as it is the hype of being able to more quickly put well-painted large numbers of military units on the tabletop battlefield.
And so far, that is not happening.
So, I'll give Vallejo a try - and I'll give AP SP 2nd Edition a try, too. Even if they'd just work on tunics and trousers with implementing traditional practices on the rest of the figures, it would be a tremendous help.
With all that being said it would be nice to see some videos showcasing military miniatures painted with contrast paints. Perhaps I'm just too set in may ways.
there are some cool tutorials for camo, and just in general. check out the new Kasrkin models. duncan did a few different schemes in one video. he also has some amazing tank ones as well!
I don't think this is that big a deal. Just don't buy it. It's a great option for lots of people
i still think its a great option, even with the re-activation. but i def think you should be honest with your customers. there is no way, they didnt notice they take hours, or in their words, days to dry... and are prone to reactivating. so the issue really isnt the product flaw/feature/bug... its them being dishonest, then trying to run damage control.
@@WarHammerMan Appreciate the response. I still love the speed paints, but I agree that the reactivation can be an issue. They really aren't designed to be highlighted over or layered on. If folks just use them as intended 'one coat and done' then the reactivation isn't a problem. But of course AP wants to sell as much as possible, so I am not surprised they gloss over the downsides of this product.
I think the suggestion to varnish is to try to appeal to the more experienced folks who want to use Speed Paint as a base and highlight over it. So I think the suggestion of varnishing is already aimed at more experienced painters, who may not find that too challenging or difficult.
Keep up the great content sir!
@@tracyedwards8066 i mostly agree with you. the real issue is when you are trying to paint a model, more than one color. if you make a mistake, then try to cover it in white opaque paint, it has issue. so then you are stuck waiting a long time to dry, etc. of course, i never make mistakes, but for others. lol. cheers. thanks
I have been using the original army painter speedpaint since release and never had a single issue with it, I airbrush a varnish after each layer, I always have even with regular paint, its good practice as it makes any mistakes easy to wash off, never had any reactivation doing this, the reactivation is actually a bonus as you can wait for the model to dry and then use just water and a q tip to remove the paint from any area you don't want it. . You can actually get different effects by using a gloss, satin or matt varnish on the initial basecoat which is great, my drying times is only about 60 minuits, not a problem when you are painting batches of 10 models or whatever, I think its pretty much perfect, it just needed to be clearer with the initial release details, I'm knocking out large units of fantasy infantry with just a zenathal highlight and a single cost of speedpaint.
ya i agree with basically everything you said. you obviously varnish way more than most people, i find about 75% dont have an airbrush, or varnish models. i do agree, that having different products is good... so The Army Painter either deceived the community, by not disclosing the details, or failed to test the product before launch, which would be blatant incompetence... so my main issue isnt the product, its the practice of deceit.
@WarHammerMan yeah, they could have just said, varnish after dry from day one and never had any drama, I doubt anyone would have cared 😅, what I thought was funny was when it went from a one coat product in the video to a base coat that they then suggest you add highlights to afterwards. . That's basically what caused the reactivation issue in the first place. . Its actually super versatile as you can use it as anything you want, I even use it as washes with just some extraairbrush flow improver, the paint range has been amazing for me, I have the mega set and did find that some colours give a lot more contrast effect that others, the same thing was with the GW paints also though. . I use both the Army Painter and Citadel Contrast paints, even together on the same model as I find they have different finishes, I also use AK interactive, Vallejo, coat d arms, Tamiya and P3, I like all of them even though they are quite different, I don't see them as better or worse, just as having different properties or usage.
Most people, myself included aren’t going to varnish a model 3-4 times. Once is annoying enough to do, never mind 4. Even with an airbrush. Constantly having to clean it is a pain and is no fun.
Everyone I know varnishes after a basecoat, with a water based varnish you just run a bit of water through your airbrush to clean any paint out, pop the varnish it, then just run a bit of water through after before putting your regular paint in. . It ls no hassle at all, even easier if your batch painting 10 models or whatever at a time like it was designed for, its only the one varnish after the speedpaint basecoat, then one when the model is all finished, its far less hassle than having to reapply a whole basecoat if you mess up with a wash or highlights, you just run your varnished model under the tap and start again or sponge it off with a cotton bud. . Its even easier if your using oil washes or effect paints, without varnish you will struggle to do streaking grime or rust streaks or chipping without ever stripping off your base coat.
@@johnfarscape Be that as it may. Varnishing is not neededwith Citadel Contrast or Vellejo Express Colors. This is a flawed product and they tried to hide it.
I actually greatly prefer the Army Painter speed paints to the Contrast Paints, I think they produce a much better range of highlighting and are just really nice colors. The 'flaw' of reactivation is very useful, it really helps with wet blending, pulling off highlights like with oil paints and makes cleaning up mistakes incredibly easy. I don't even use contrast paints anymore because I've become such a fan of them. When they originally released videos about making the new range of speed paints, they asked people if they saw it as a problem, a perk or just a trait and at least based on the poll people liked it. I personally hope they keep this fatal flaw because its very useful and each paint has to be treated as its own system anyway, at least to get the best results out of each paint type. The new Vallejo ones are nice too, but a bit too desaturated.
That said, if you just wait an hour or two the paint should dry and not reactivate, I don't varnish them until I'm done. I do varnish all my models though. You don't need to use second colors with how nice the speed paints are, though I often do additional highlights and washes after (and before doing a varnish). From what I understand, they want to keep the reactivation thing right now, just reduce the the time it takes to dry solidly. You should still expect it to have the reactivation 'flaw', a lot of their youtube feedback suggested it should stay and they stated they want it to keep at least some of those properties.
i actually agree with you about a lot of your points. but ask yourself this. if its not a flaw, why didnt they talk about it, prior to being exposed? they must have noticed it takes hours to dry, and reactivates. i agree about the wet blending, and other aspects, but that is def dishonest. then the recent edit of the video, to take out "instead of days"... we will see if they take the video down lol. finally what about the "varnish" issue, shouldnt they be more clear? i dunno, i like The Army Painter. i want them to do better.
Meh… I’m just going for table ready. Their 1.0 worked well for me and I’m excited for the 2.0 color variety.
def looking forward to the expanded range of colors. there were some nice colors, but this should take it to the next level
I use the reactivated properties. Many do. They found a balance. One man’s flaw is another man’s feature.
sure i get it, i have emails with army painter, suggesting that re-activation could be used to wet blend... far before it became "mainstream". the facts dont change though. they didnt disclose it, and they are trying to "fix" it... so which one is it? is it a flaw that they fixed, or a feature, that they got rid of? either way its sus...
I've been a big fan of Army Painter since the company started. With that said I very disappointed in how they are handling Speed Paint 1.0 and 2.0. There were problems with 1.0, and the company didn't allow returns or exchanges for the new 2.0 product - even if they were unopened/unused. A major failure in customer service and product reliability guarantee.
i totally agree. everyone that supported them the first go, is basically screwed. they should at bare minimum offer some kind of discount on 2.0, with proof of purchase from the 1.0
I need to say that army painter is the least shady company in the hobby business, the reactivation was never a "fatal flaw" and saying that it is, is just a bit of ragebait. Army painter has been very transparent in the last year, the speedpaint 2.0 is something I really look forward to and can't wait to try out.
Yes flaws need to be pointed out, but this video is just misleading IMO.
you can call it rage-bait, but its actually just reality. its what happened, its not my opinion. they were very transparent about the product... AFTER the reactivation was pointed out by the community. army painter was transparent after they were exposed. i'm not saying its a flaw, i'm not saying its not a good product. they are saying that. Army painter has acknowledged the product is flawed, and they are fixing the flaw, with 2.0. so you're arguing with the company not me. i think army painter should have just been honest, these take a long time to dry, and can re-activate. using some varnish between steps can fix this. you can also use the reactivation to wet blend, and other cool things. but embrace it, and tell the truth. thats not what they did. they pretended they didnt know. thats not honest. so saying they are the least shady company, isnt really a good thing. its not hard to just be honest. there is no way they didnt know, the paints took a long time to dry, and re-activated. thats a fact. people still like the product, the problem isnt the paint, its the honesty... cheers
Amen. Incredibly disingenuous.
Varnish is important. In my 20 years of experience in a proper model building (planes, tanks, the real deal), i used to varnish seal everything. Because the thinners in different products will react and go haywire, acrylic paints are removed by almost anything, lacquer thinner melts the plastic itself. Finished basecoating - apply gloss or future to make decals stick better. Done decals - gloss again, sand and polish to remove decal film "step". Panel lining - gloss, oil/enamel washes - matt, pigment powder - seal it. And one more matt coat when all done. And don't forget to dunk your "glass" parts into future to make them clear and shiny.
I got the full set when it first came out and haven't really had a big issue with it. I only paint to tabletop standards so I've never had an issue with reactivation. It's a bit sketchy but far more transparent than GW. I try to stay out of controversy and enjoy the hobby.
ya i think 1.0 is still a good product, and overall 2.0 looks even better. i do wish they would focus more on honestly
By the way, Citadel changed its formulation for both the Contrast and Shade lines, so we ended up with the same sort of "do I buy it again" decision. Granted, Speed Paint 1.0 are less functional, so it is easier to simply throw them out, but there are a number of comparison videos out there that warn against using the two versions of Contrast and Shade within the same unit/army, if you want consistent results.
What bothers me more is that the gave a pre-order for 50 paints, 3 being metallics, and now there is a larger set. They gave no indication when they announced the 50 paint set that there was a larger paint line coming hard on its heels.
ya i'm not cherry picking here... i made multiple videos about how GW was pulling a bait and switch with the shades. not only changing the recipe, but decreasing the size of the Paint Pot! i did not buy any of the new shades, and bought as many of the old ones in advance as i could find. i do agree that is def shady, it also says in fine print the price goes up after initial launch. it just seems like they are always doing something sketchy...
I actually liked the reactivation properties of the original speed paint. I feel like it's another tool if used properly. But the fact they weren't open about it when they were launching was an issue
i completely agree with you. great for wet blending. should have just marketed it a little differently, but been straight forward
I use both Contrast and Speed Paint. I personally prefer Speed Paints smoother finish over flat areas. I have use Speed Paint Medium to smooth some of blotchies of Contrast. I use the reactivation to smooth color transistions.
ya i think the speed paints are a nice product, and do some things better. Army painter def didnt market them like that though... i cant honestly believe nobody noticed the extra long drying time, and reactivation, way in advance to selling them. thats my issue
@@WarHammerMan I not saying that can be improved, but a lot of other brands (cough Vallejo) changed formulas of their washes due to an issue that created a white dusty finish. But I'm not pointing fingers.
So I am also not a patient person and like like to get out the old blow dryer to accelerate the drying process when painting.
ya man its terrible when the washes go cloudy, or super glossy... i cant imagine pulling out the hair dryer to make paint dry faster. i mostly use contrast, and its super fast.
@@WarHammerMan I'm a long time mini painter so I have a tendency to use all the tricks I've picked up over the years. Its a great trick to set paint thinned with glaze medium or other retardants so you can move on to the get section. Also great if you want to accelerate crackle medium used on my bases.
I’m fine with the Speedpaints. Juan Hidalgo discovered that adding contrast medium solves the reactivation. When I’m doing chaff units, I use Speedpaints, no medium, and just varnish them all and highlight if I feel like it. Otherwise I just leave them.
ya i think once you know you need to varnish them, or add some medium, its not that big a deal... but why did we have to discover it, why didnt Army painter know, or share? thats the issue.
You talk about AP being 'super shady' in the way they handled it despite them doing an entire video on how they acknowledge that Speedpaints 1.0 were not good. They also put out a customer survey to see what people wanted form 2.0. So, they really aren't hiding much. And when you criticize the 'scary' paint jobs they are showing, you fail to realise that they are honestly showing what a single layer of speed paint does. TBH, it's better than most people can paint. Despite that, they have brought out a product that will work for those who want to slap some paint on and play as well as more experienced painters who want to layer over the top (which is not what Speed Paint or Contrast paints were originally designed for).
you miss the whole point about honesty... you mean to tell me, nobody noticed the reactivation ahead of time? wether its good or bad, why didnt they mention it? go check how many videos told you to varnish, prior to pre-orders, and the community "discovering the issue". i'm not even saying its a bad product. its good. and its cheap. you're getting defensive, for no reason. because i'm not against, you, them, or the product. i'm just pointing out that they were dishonest.
@@WarHammerMan If you use them as a one coat, without layering extra highlights, and have decent brush control it's pretty easy to never notice the reactivation.
Also the video change you're pointing out isn't particularly shady when they still have the other video up and watchable. I think you somehow missed the bigger change in the videos. One of them is advertising the 50 paint set and the other is for the 90 paint set.
I have a set of the original set of speed paints and have no issues with the other than they take 3-4hours to dry. The reactivation can be useful for wet blending the original the original base coat. I'm actually a little bummed they're getting rid if it with the 2.0 sets
ya i completely agree. the main problem isnt disclosing the reactivation issue, and insanely long drying time. make a product, be honest about it, and let consumers decide. thats not that much to ask.
@@WarHammerMan You are unreasonably emphasizing the reactivation issue and unfairly casting it as a deceptive business practice.
@@devinnasar3014 nope, you're completely biased. companies dont remove reatures, because they were good or popular... they do it because its a flaw. obviously. they were deceptive, and the community called them out. they are taking measures to correct this, thats great. but they were deceptive thats a fact. you not being able to admit that, discredits anything you say.
@@WarHammerMan whatever man, all I see is you going around calmly dismissing the validity of anyone pushing back on your take. Not interested in your opinion any longer.
i did not have a problem with the old speedpaints and alreadt pre-ordered the new ones. almost all the new speedpaints are new colors with only a couple of the old ones. very excited to get the new ones. i have some contrast and do not like them at all. the speedpaints make me look like a much better painter than i actually am.
thats awesome. glad to hear you are enjoying them. i love contrast paints, so hearing other dislike them, but like speedpaints is great. it further enforces my opinion, that more options are always better! cheers thanks for sharing
Well at least they won't dry up in the bottle, if you want to paint red, buy the Vallejo fantasy pro crimson red set, it's well worth the price
ya there are def different companies that do certain paints the best!
they should have offerecanyone who purchased the old speed paint a exchange for the new if customers sent it back to them . to make amends on there error
ya they should do something. maybe have you provide the upc, and get a discount on the new set.
New AP SP look solid, maybe gonna get the metal ones in the future for terrain. Otherwise probably gonna stick to the new Vallejo ones. Love the nuclear yellow and red velvet so far.
ya they look pretty good. i do like the metals, what a great idea. i love having so many options !
Vallejo ones are really nice
This honestly feels like you are trying your best to be negative about this.
Sure, the company has acknowledged the long drying times as something they want to change after big, public criticism,
but the idea that they are at fault for not preemptively shitting on their own product is ridiculous.
Long drying times aren't even a universally bad thing. I have heard multiple people say that they used these paints specifically because they lend themselves well for blending colors.
Miniature paints have lots of very specific applications, and i think properly displaying those is an issue with paints from all manufacturers.
Ideally you could look at a paint in the store and find out opacity, viscosity, pigment mix, saturation and used mediums, but sadly no company does that.
Among the new contrast paints is one color that's specifically meant to be used for ice effects, but you have to consult third parties to find out because its neither mentioned on the product itself nor the painting guidelines they have.
The two seconds edit is something that every pr team would instantly tell you to do: Talk about the improvement, don't evoke negative emotions by mentioning old problems.
Days, as a plural with open ended interpretation, is also a phrasing that lend itself well to further exaggeration, which isn't something you want in your commercial either.
you're wrong. if i was trying to be negative it would be far worse. this is called being neutral. you're just coming off as an Army Painter Apologist... i say like 20 times how army painter is doing good stuff, i also point out their bad stuff... you literally are defending them... thats not neutral. your view is completely skewed. its ok to like a product, defend it, or a company, and still acknowledge reality...
Its cheaper, some colors perform better, some worse. I have painted a Huge Giant and the Hulk using them with shade blending on the flesh, no issues with reactivation.
nice man, i think overall they were well received, just could have been marketed more honestly
Regarding the part about them changing the newer video from saying "just hours, not days" to "just hours", you have that reversed. In the Mega Set video, it says "just hours", which came out roughly 3 weeks ago. In the newer version, which is the Complete Set that came out 3 days ago, they changed it to say "just hours, not days". So in fact they corrected the video to acknowledge the problem they had before, which is cool of them, instead of trying to hide behind it, which they should get credit for, not suspicion of being shady. The 2 second difference is that the beginning of the Mega Set video has a fade in from black to the graphic of the box, and then around 17 seconds when it switches from Thomas to a graphic of the box again, it happens later in one video as opposed to the other one.
This isn't to say they did NOTHING shady regarding this, I just take what they are doing now as an attempt to correct the mistakes they made before in both product and representation of that product.
cool thanks for sharing. i agree, they have handled the issue fairly well, been transparent since, and the new product looks good... that being said, i dont think we should make them out to be some "Hero" company. they were deceitful, they tried to pull a fast one, and got caught.... cheers
@@WarHammerMan Your take is pure clickbait. It wasn't a fast one, SpeedPaint 1.0 reactivation is a conscious feature.
@@devinnasar3014 ya you're right, its a feature, that the company didnt disclose, and is now taking measures to remove... they reformulated the entire line in less than a year, to replace the "feature" because it was so good, they didnt want it any more... lol you sound silly
I've never had any issues with my speed paints reactivating
My brother in law actually ran into some issues like this. I was thinking about trying them out but, I love the way contrast paints work not just as a speed painting thing but just as a deeper tool box for getting the results I want. I don't mind GW paint prices. I will pick up some army painter basing stuff from time to time but that's about it. GW will have to royally screw up for me to change my mind on that. Their paints are top of the line imo and I didn't drop 130$ on Angron to skimp out on the 7$ flesh tearers red to paint the whole army.
ya i totally agree. i dont like to skimp on models, or paints. 3d printing is fun, and some of the cheap options are cool, but time is the limited resource! the contrast paints dry in minutes, these take hours. i am optimistic that they will be good. i like having options, especially cheap ones for people, new to the hobby
no problems with speedpaints series one. like them, will buy the next
thank you for sharing, they are good paints, and priced nicely!
Ehh, i batch paint everything with my speedpaints. I've never been bothered by the reactivation.
ya, i think now that we know about it, you can make sure to avoid any issue. now that me know... thats the issue.
1.0 isn't nearly as bad as the GW legionnaires make them out to be. Assuming that most people don't paint minis all day as a commission painter and get an hour or two of hobby time a night we can assume that most models will probably have a 24 hour dry time before they're touched again. Some of the colors were worse for reactivation than others, and some were more blotchy, which admittedly are issues, but every brand of paint has it's pros and cons. For the money, the 1.0 speedpaints were good. For the money, AP warpaints are average. GW paints are good, but the price and the pots make them average. Even some loyalists hate the pots.
Nothing that I saw in advertising directly from AP, or indirectly through youtubers proclaimed speedpaints to be a once and done thing for "great" looking miniatures. They were good enough to get colors on models so you could play games, and they did it very quickly. Lots of people found out very quickly that using speedpaints NOT as advertised made them VERY good. By underpainting (slapchop and similar) and using the speedpaints as a wash/glaze incredible contrast can be achieved with high vibrancy. By layering/highlighting/glazing over the speedpaints you can do even more.
I bought the basic set on launch to quickly get heroquest minis painted. They work. None of them are my best work, but they're painted, and ready to play with. I've since started using them along with other techniques to get much better results, and based on that...I ordered the 2.0 50 paint set. They're great for batching, but I don't count on them to do everything I need. Other brands, other ranges, are all part of the arsenal.
If you have an army, that needs painted for a game, speedpaints kick butt. Same thing for a D&D game where you're racing to get a monster ready for a session. If you're counting on one subtype of paint to make you a painting contest winner, you're misleading yourself, it's not the brand's fault.
at no point in time, am i saying that the product isnt good. this video is entirely about the new products, and army painter's behavior relative to the speedpaint 1.0 line. i actually think the product is fine, even with reactivation. my issue is with disclosing the truth. in advance to others discovering it. i am always for more options, more products, we need awesome quality stuff, and also cheap stuff, its important to have options.
I hate Contrast Paints. I hate the bottle, I hate the inability to meter out the paint in precise amounts and that I need to dip my brush into the tipsy bottle every time. Plus, i don’t find their “contrast” to be as good as Speed Paints contrast.
I did see deactivation with AP 1.0 but I varnish by default so it was never an issue. Varnishing is like a “save point” for me, and has saved me countless hours of “repainting” time.
I agree that AP should have done more testing before releasing 1.0.
nothing wrong with having a favorite product or brand. contrast are far superior, but much more expensive, so they are not for everyone. i like having options. i personally prefer pots for washes, and contrast paints, droppers for everything else. I dont think the issue was testing, it was honesty. there is no way Army painter is so incompetent, that they never noticed reactivation, or that varnish was not an options, but a necessity. i refuse to believe they had no idea. cheers
@@WarHammerMan”Contrast are far superior”
What a dumb troll. 😂😂😂😂
I don't know... I don't think a company needs to acknowledge flaws in old products in promotional videos of new products. 🤷♂️
lol its a fine line, once you've lost the communities trust. i do agree, if you're still trying to sell the old flawed product, it doesnt make sense to bad mouth it, when trying to sell your new product. i honestly dont think the 1.0 paints are bad, but they should have been honest about the issue, not pretending like they didnt know, or acting like varnishing regularly is normal. imagine having bought the full set less than a year ago. now army painter is basically saying how trash those are, but the new ones are amazing... paints last 5, 10, even 20 years. less than 1 year later, speedpaint 2.0. that creates feel bads. they should focus on being honest. i like army painter, i want them to do well.
At this point they should rebrand both lines. 1.0 is NOT beginner friendly as the name suggests but is great for advanced techniques like wet blending, glazing and feathering. They should have a name like "technical" or "advanced tech" speedpaint. While 2.0 should just ge speed paints
Or even drop the speed paint moniker from the 1.0 line altogether and just call them advanced paints for the people who take advantage of the reactivation for those higher skillrd techniques
I use both Contrast and Speedpaints. I like both for different reasons. I am not entering paint competitions, I just need my minies to not be gray. The matt look of the speedpaints as opposed to Contrast paint's more glossy look, is something I love. I know I could use a matt varnish to get the same look, but I must be doing something rwong because most of my varnished minies are sticky even after 10+ months......So I try to aviod doing that------enter Speedpaints!
Furthermore, I dont thing AP was holding something back(reactication), just because they did not tell right away, but that might just be me.
awesome i'm glad you enjoy them both. i'd always much rather have lots of options, and use what i like. i think its great that the hobby is growing, and we have so much more at our disposal!
I like the speed paints 1.0, I find they have a very mat finish in comparison to Contrast, but this type of product should not be in dropper bottles.
i agree with everything you said. i dont think the product was bad, its different, its less expensive, its good! i do however think they should have been honest, and up front about it. that being said, since then they have continued to walk the line of shady stuff... so i'm apprehensive about the direction of the company with this type of leadership.
@@WarHammerMan but you know GW also does shady stuff (you called them out for it) but you’re still buying their stuff right?
Actually, there was someone before him who found the issue, and if I remember, he even said so in his video.
ya it doesnt matter who found it... the drama got big from one particular person, pointing it out, because they may have had a "conflict of interest". the fact is The Army Painter made a product, sold it, and never tested it? or omitted important details , until the community exposed it. thats not cool. now they are releasing a new improved version, less than a year later... what about all the people who bought the last product, the sub par one? they are screwed for supporting Army Painter. so they should rush out to get the new improved set, and just trust army painter is going to be honest now?
Army painter has got enough money from me over the years for average products - not a cent more.
ya they sell good entry level stuff. thats why this situation was such a disaster. i can only imagine being new, dealing with reactivation, long drying times.... and the fix... varnish between steps, thats insane. def a huge blunder!
I actually varnish after every brush stroke so these are perfect! 💀
lol thats the safest way to paint. takes a bit longer, but worth every spray haha
For what it’s worth that TH-camr wasn’t the first to point out the reactivation issue, it just blew up because he’s popular but at least one other person pointed them out in their reviews. You didn’t name names so I won’t either but one can find them.
the reason it was an issue, was not who discovered it. but that it looked like a "smear campaign". its a grey are. IMO just dont review products, that would have a conflict of interest. but technically, he didnt really do anything wrong.
@@WarHammerMan oh yeah, 100%, and it could certainly look like he was paid to smear them (I doubt that was the case, but it could come across that way).
ya i dont think there was any malice involved. it got blown way out of proportion for clicks. in the end, i dont think any of the parties involved came out looking good. at the heart of it all though... army painter withholding important info about the product
If you're a painter that uses wet blending a lot then the reactivation is to your advantage. Other than that it's a nuisance.
i agree there are some cool features. i think the paint line is good, and i'm glad to see them improving it. its unfortunate for those who already picked up the full set.
"Extremely limited and flawed". Complete bollocks 😂
it doesnt make sense, these products arent getting properly tested, before sale...
I am a miniature painter who has used the speedpaint 1.0 version from the start , I never varnished them at all and I used multiple coats , regular acrylics on top of them and in that entire time had reactivation once. However I understand that for some it's an issue , to me it's an added tool in my toolbox of paints.......Army Painter having heard this wanted to make everyone happy even though it was explained from the beginning it's a one coat solution , as the directions on the speedpaints said. That being said the new 2.0 mega set , the complete 2.0 set and now they are making a box set for those who just want the new colors is a company in my eyes that is trying to make everyone happy. To say that the 1.0 speedpaints was flawed is totally inaccurate. ALL paint lines have issues , ALL if they didn't we would just own 1 brand of paints and ask anyone they have multiple paints from multiple companies , at least Army Painter is trying to find middle ground and listening to the customers ........I don't see GW trying to make their white any better or scale 75 newcomer friendly , it's all perspective. Thanks for the video I appreciate the research.......I got one love AP products and will continue to support them along with the other companies I use ......
Honestly don't think the reactivation was as big of a flaw as people made it out to be. Not to say it wasn't an issue as it had happened to me once or twice, but given enough drying time for the one and done usage I personally have really enjoyed using the paints. I feel they have handled the issue however more remarkably then I've seen any other buisness handle it, how they let the user in behind the scenes and what their thoughts processes are on making the paints. Most companies would claim they don't accept their is a flaw in their products, but AP not only openly stated they hear the noise talking about this issue but that within a year they drop a revision of the product. Can't wait for the 2.0 to hit the shelves
i agree. the reactivation was not that big a deal, but should have been disclosed. since they were exposed, they have done a good job handling the situation, and changing the product. but that doesnt change that they breached trust, by not being honest. its great that they are taking in feedback and improving the product. what about all the people who bought the old inferior product, and supported army painter? they should just rush out to buy the new stuff, and throw away the old stuff? also if this product is for beginners, its not realistic to require multiple coats of varnish between painting, thats insane...
@@WarHammerMan like I said I think the original product is fine enough as you agree the reactivation is not a big deal. I followed the SpeedPaint advertising since they announced the originals and they did mention you'd want to be careful not to get the paint in places you don't want it. So user error is user error. I agree that this product isnt really meant for beginners, but to me it didn't look like it was aimed at new painters , but more so at people who want to paint large armies in a quick amount of time. As for not mentioning the reactivation in their advertising, I don't believe their was any malicious intent to hide their secrets to sell people a defective product. So their was no loss of trust on my part. As with alot of products in this hobby including games, in house testing can only get you so far but once you go into the mass market people find out flaws or defects that you just had no idea was there or that you wouldnt think would be that important. For the people who did buy speed paint and the reactivation was an issue for them, hopefully this second batch is for them otherwise there are other contrast ranges that might be better suited for their painting style. Every product isn't suited for everyone. And for the people like me who still use the first batch but still want to get the 2.0, I'm sure we will still find ways to use the extras it comes with
I've only tried a few of the AP speedpaints and have had no issues with them. From what I understand, it was only certain colors (mainly red) that was a problem and not everyone had issues. There are a lot of top quality guys (Goobertown Hobbies for example) who tested them at launch and was very pleased by them. Lots of people use them all the time with no problems. There is almost always kinks to iron out with any new product after it hits the market. And it's not like GW has had no shady business on their end. They had to reformulate their Contrast line as well. There were issues with that initial line, especially with varying quality and coverage of paint. It was a flawed line, even much more so than the Speed Paint line.
ya the speed paints are alright. once you know about the issue you can work around it. I own the entire contrast line, and have since it was released. the paints were never reformulated... they reformulated the washes, to be more like contrast paints. the contrast paint line is by far the best. the line was never flawed, some of the paints are different types, and the range doesnt distinguish. you could easily buy a "glaze" on accident, thinking its going to have good coverages, but thats not what it is. its not flawed, just has multiple styles of paint, inside a single range, with no way to distinguish. trying to compare contrast to speedpaints, and saying speedpaints are better, is an absolute joke... there is a market for speedpaints, they are cheaper, but they are not better, its a fact, all you have to do is use them, and its obvious. contrast paints have been out for years, tested by hundreds of thousands of people, the recipe was never changed, you're wrong... i dont who you are getting your info from... but its wrong
@War Hammer Man Studios After a bit of research, it seems that I was mistaken. GW only added new colors to the line and changed the wash formula. You are correct on that. However, stating that the GW's contact line is perfect with no flaws is just plain wrong. There are huge discrepancies in the line from color to color as far as coverage, smoothness and other aspects. Also, stating that Contrast if better than Speed Paint and that's a fact is also dead wrong. It may be your opinion, but it's by far not a fact. You can read and watch multiple reviews, as well as comments that prove otherwise. Im not a AP shill. I have some of their paints and like most of what I've used. I have a lot of GW paints and think they are great (for the most part). Ive used Reaper and liked them. I prefer Vallejo, but they are not perfect. No product from any company ever is perfect and every company has released a flawed product from time to time (ask Nintendo, Toyota, Apple, just to name a few). They fixed their mistake and owned up to it. I think that's great. They didn't have to do that. Maybe they should have caught the issue before launch, but that's not always how it works. How many triple A title video games have to have patches after launch to fix major bugs? It happens all the time.
I'm glad you've been honest about Army Painter's sketchy business practices. They're the back-patting and shifty paint company. GW is the abusive, but excellent, paint company that packages their products in ways that bring pain and uncertainty. Vallejo are the gold standard that doesn't care if you like them or not. Monument Hobby is crashing on your couch and you like them too much to ask them to leave. Golden So-Flat aren't in your league, but they make the only yellow and orange that covers in two thin coats, so you accept that they'll never notice that you're alive, like Ashley from Home Room who married the ear hair guy who sells Masaratis.
lol i dont know if you made this up, or copied it, but its hilarious, and also spot on haha
As a new painter with a kid who works with it the set is ok, but I only get to paint in limited sessions. Personally I like Vallejo sets more and look forward to their new speed set.
ya i agree, its ok. the new set should be much better. vallejo's new stuff is intriguing. i use almost exclusively citadel products, including contrast paints. i wish they were a better value, but def worth the price. but i love to have various options like speedpaint, for beginners, kids etc. cheers
I love the speed paint and I use contrast paint. The more of both the better
ya i agree, i love options. the more the better. cheers
Love AP 1.0 for so many reasons. Drop bottles and so much better color and contrasts than GW.
Also - never had a problem with reactivation when painting acrylics or even washing afterwards. Been careful and dried it though.
I think you're overdoing it on the fanboyism front. Sure, to each their own - but it's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be in that exaggeration bomb.
i must say army painter speedpaintsa are my favorit paints i block in the colours and sometimes use the reactivation for wetblending and building more shadows then a thin coat of airbrush varnish and go on other colours with shades , washes booth oil and acrylic highligts and drybushing and glazeing and i love them. and they have said in the proces with these colours that within 2 houers so its the same thing they have said since they made the new medium
i agree with most your points, and i dont think they are bad. that being said, they literally show a comparison side by side, of the old and new, 2 hours later. the old bleeds, and the new doesnt, how is that the same... ?
@@WarHammerMan oh its not what i mean you can reactivate withing 2 hours of drying then they say that they wont reactivate again with the new paints
You are putting just such an unnecessary amount of effort to malign Army Painter for the SpeedPaint reactivation issue. Army Painter has done a really good job of engaging the community and partnering directly with TH-cam creators in the hobby to formulate the SpeedPaint 2.0 line, and has been incredibly transparent about their values and goals throughout their process. The basis of your argument, that SpeedPaint reactivation is a flaw, and that therefore, Army Painter has been dishonest in allowing it to go to market, is a problem -full stop. SpeedPaint is meant to compete with Contrast, which means that in order to innovate, it's properties must be unique. It has been *widely* shown that that artists across the hobby find SpeedPaint 1.0 reactivation to be an feature, not a bug. There's no other 'Contrast-like' paint that essentially functions like an oil paint when it comes to blending techniques, which makes Army Painter's product stand out. Going to market knowing that this is a property of SpeedPaint 1.0 wasn't some kind of deceptive practice - they probably DID know that reactivation could occur, and took a chance that the community would appreciate the paint for what it could do. When people started to give feedback that reactivation caused some challenges, Army Painter recommended varnish, again listening to their community after many creators found it to effective. Army Painter has been *generous*. Re-formulating SpeedPaint in such a small time frame, connecting directly with the community to do so, and producing videos to help people get the most out of product they'd already purchased is evidence of that, when they could have ignored the issue and left customers on their own. It is a very normal process and a sign of integrity when a company revises it's product after it's audience gives feedback. Trying to cast that as some kind of shady business practice is nothing short of clickbait.
i agree with most of what you said, but you're confused. i'm not casting army painter in a bad light, i'm just talking about reality. you think i am saying reactivation is a flaw, but its the army painter saying that, not me. they are even backing it up, by reformulating the entire paint range... those are facts. the issue is that they were not upfront about drying times, and reactivation, until after it was pointed out by the community. thats dishonest. i like army painter, i like options. they have done an amazing job addressing the issue, and communicating with the community. they are definitely doing better!
@@WarHammerMan that's not what you said in another response. You essentially said I don't know if I am comfortable with this level of deception from the top level. So which is it? AP did a good job or they can't be trusted going forward?
Army Painter certainly didn't fully test their product before releasing 1.0. That's completely clear. I won't be investing in the 2.0 paints any time soon. Feeling ripped off right now.
ya its crazy how many apologists there are. not to mention there are drying issues with the new set. they dry too fast now, and crack like a texture paint... its crazy, they screwed over hundreds of thousands of people, and the community is acting like they are heroes very strange.
I hate the look of speedpaints and contrast paints. i use regular army painter paints with an airbrush and some vallejo flow improver and hit it with an oil wash and maybe some very targeted acrylic wash. basically a mix of techniques i learned from Next level Painting and Marco frisoni on TH-cam.
marco's style is awesome. i love his content. i'm a big fan of his stuff. i use a lot of contrast paints, but also do quite a bit of airbrushing, washing and highlighting. dont really use oil washes though.
The speed paints are actually good paints, they have nice colors and they are good priced compared to Citadel and for some color just straight up better. I use the reactivation issue to my advantage with blending when applying multiple layers, saving time and making them actual "speed" paints. I used these paints for over a year and I haven't had any problems with activation.
ya i agree, the paints are actually good, and i always like lots of options. that being said, why did AP hide this? why are they now acknowledging its a "problem" and changing the entire range? they should have embraced it, disclosed it, or fixed it. but they should have done it before selling the line. IMO
I like this channel but hes never used army painter speed paint before I have it doesn't take days to dry He would know that if he'd use the product before
Army painters own video, literally says "so it only takes hours to dry, instead of days". that is their words, from their mouth. they show an example of their own paint reactivating after 2 hours... that is not normal! but if you wait days, they will not reactivate (so they literally take days to dry/cure properly). its all straight from The Army Painter's Mouth.
Click bait fear monger title, shame as the vid is better than that.
Hate to say it but I like GW contrast over Army Paint.
they are def better. the only complaints i hear are they price, and they dont work great one large flat surfaces... thats pretty good if you ask me
contrast paints also look pretty bad
The "old" formula. Old? its from like a year ago 😆
lol, dude i just laughed out loud at this. cheers
Kinda a slap to the people who bought the first batch. The hobby community is probably too nice. People should be shitting on or put youtuber's reputation on blast if this goes sideways again.
ya its def not cool. people's reputations follow them. have to be careful who you endorse, thats for sure !
Might as well skip speed paints and go straight to oils.
ya if you're going to be varnishing anyways, its def a much more similar process. however the oils require safety measures with use
@War Hammer Man Studios all paints should require safety measures. Just because it is hobby paint doesn't mean it is safe. Last time I check, they don't put pigments labels on the bottles and they don't conform to any ASTM D-4236 standard so you don't know what they used. Might as well treat them all as cadmium, viridian green, cobalt, copper, manganese, arsenic, antimony, and borates ...you get the point. Always wear a mask when you airbrush, don't eat the paint, wash your hands after painting, or wear gloves and always varnish.
ya better safe than sorry, i was thinking more along the lines of Spirits being very toxic, often used with "oil washes" in the hobby.
MAN! I just wanna paint an hear someone talk facts BUT!...
"GOD'S BE DAMNED!"
How many ads can u cram into a 20 minute video?
U absolutely hit the mark on maxing it out I'm all for someone getting bread but dang this is annoying brother.
i'm glad you enjoyed the video, but it should be 2 ads and they are 30 seconds each.
100% shady stuff from them and just so subtle of changes for damage control. I'm still getting these to test out alongside the Vallejo Xpress Color, got to see the comparisons myself.
i like Army Painter, they have the potential to explode in popularity, and size. All the need is to make good decisions, and good products. the success will come!
A twenty minute video about how the new paint works as advertised? Just use varnish like they suggested if you bought the old paint, who cares?
def not you, you're way too cool to care! lmfao
@@WarHammerMan Full disclosure, I did not buy the old paint. Maybe I'm just jaded from being abused by GW to see this as a big issue.
lol no worries man. GW def sets the bar haha. Just imagine dropping $100 on paints, that will likely last you a decade or more... then less than a year later 2.0... lol it sucks.
This video reeks of bad faith and is overtly nitpicky. "Army Painter is being shady because they had an issue a year ago, but they fixed it! "
that smell, you think is bad faith... its your upper lip. i have nothing against army painter. its weird that you are defensive, with people just explaining reality...
@War Hammer Man Studios I'm not defensive at all, I'm fact if this video had come out 6 to 12 months ago, I'd agree. The timing is suspicious. Your reaction definitely defensive though.