Thanks for bringing that important data to our attention. Perhaps the Nephites had attached urine guards to the back of their tapirs so the steel chariots would not get splashed.
Since leaving last year, I'm finding myself continually astounded at how fully and utterly I believed the LDS Church's truth claims. I'm so glad I'm out of there. I'm also embarrassed it took me so long to leave.
It took me 35 years and I was born and raised in the church! I figure it’s not a TIMED test-as long as we get out, eventually, that’s what counts. I got out 45 years ago. EVERY day since, has been peaceful And authentic. I have not joined any other organized religion and found that, without religion, I really didn’t believe in God; but I am finally at peace with myself.
Those who think that ex-Mormons are synonymous with anti-Mormons are the ones who are most likely to become ex-Mormons within the next five years. I've seen this play out many times with other friends, and in myself. Those who feel the most threatened in the church tend to be the ones whose underlying insecurities will eventually lead them out. To those people: you are a friend regardless. Life is hard enough as it is without placing ideologies above relationships.
That's a wise thought! I was very distressed when an active couple in my Ward left the faith when I myself left about a year later. So their reaction is probably very telling, more than people realize!!
Well, aren't active Mormons now technically anti-mormons since they are now actively trying to subdue the use of the word Mormon to describe themselves?
The argument that a tapir could be a horse in the BofM is so ridiculous that anyone suggesting this should instantly lose any credibility (I don't care what your education or background is). Can you imagine Helaman riding a tapir? What about Captain Moroni? This idea deserves all the ridicule it gets! The tapir is the perfect symbol for Mormon mental gymnastics.
It’s just a basic theory. Most theories in the world turn out not to be true, but we make them anyway because sometimes they lead to interesting things. Thats what many credible and educated people do that is.
As Nemo pointed out, it’s troubling for those of us who were taught to be obedient and to never doubt what Mormon leaders say, to decades later find out that everything you were taught were children’s stories. It makes your head spin.
@@anitah2404 for me it's the basic things. The church tells you how JS translated the scriptures. Who better than them to put into their story books the pictures. And then south park is the one to teach you the truth.... I remember at the same time when I started actual research my mom was, ohh but there is allot of anti-mormon stuff around. And I am mom I work in IT, been reading the recently released js papers on the church's site based on historical fact it's the churchs site, I didn't get this from a , I told you so. I got it from reading the papers from the horses mouth and it's different. I truly believed the church released those files because more people were finding out about them and they were rather now than later, and have it look like we were hiding it when we can say but see we were open about it.
Another point regarding translation: if the Nephites used their non-english (reformed Egyptian or whatever) word for “horse” to describe tapirs, why would Joseph Smith, by the power of God, translate that word into the English “horse”? Words are arbitrary and carry the meaning we assign them, so why would the mislabeling of an animal in a certain language (Nephites) be carried into another language (English) if the translation is divine?
l was today years old when I learned that a black and white tapir was a Malaysian tapir, and not native to the Americas. Thanks for your commitment to shedding light on all truth Nemo. 🐎🔦 Also, I am “letting you know in the comments;” PLEASE do an episode on the September Six. I am related to the Toscano’s by marriage, (through Janice Allred) but I was 14ish when it all went down, and the excommunication drama was hush-hush grownup talk. And to be perfectly honest, at 14 I was way more concerned about what to wear to the next stake dance than my intellectual relatives getting excommunicated. Times have changed.
Nemo you make the best videos for people in the church who want unbiased truth and for exmormons. I don’t like listening to mocking videos, your commentary is straight to the point and well researched. Thank you.
Yes! My 6-year-old grandson does the same thing. I’ve thought it was kind of cute, but after listening to the guy in this recording, I’m sure hoping my grandson outgrows it.
@@AvadenSV it sounds to me like poor breath control and a weak soft palate. Totally possible it's just physical structure, but if it's just muscle weakness you could totally sidestep the issue by getting your grandson into singing or a wind instrument! Plus, music is just good for the heart and mind.
THE PASSAGE IN "The Book of Mormon" is very specific...and with other animals listed, it seems clear THE WRITER KNEW WHAT HE WAS DESCRIBING>.... "...both the cow and the ox and the ass and the HORSE and the goat and the wild goat and all manner of wild animals which were for the use of man." THE WRITER even mentions the difference between "wild animals" and the domesticated ones previously listed. TAPIR IS RIDICULED BECAUSE IT WAS AND IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE EXTREMES LDS APOLOGOSTS WILL TRY TO GO TO MAKE "The Book of Mormon" WORK.
This theory is no more ridiculous than some of the theories antis come up with to explain BOM origins. Tapirs is just a theory. The most likely answer to the horse question is that horses havent been discovered yet. Since about 2 percent of the archaelology in this hemisphere has been done this is quite likely, and has already happened with barley, as precedence. I have a new theory of BoM origin by the way. It involves a somnanbluscent Joseph sleepwalking to Dartmoth at night, obtaining a masters degree by osmosis, after sneeking into the library. Much more details to follow for anyone interested.
@@Coastal1931 The Book says what it says. The KJV Bible content is ENOUGH to prove it's a fabrication. HOW...???? I don't know. I don't think it was Joseph Smith by himself.
@@krismurphy7711 i think the KJV stuff can be explained reasonably well. As far as someone helping Joseph you’re well into conpiracy theory territory, which is not for me or my time. If ther’s ever found some real connections with real evidence Im sure we’ll here about it.
A couple other problems with DP’s apologetic: the context of the BOM horses is not just wild animals encountered, but beasts of burden. We read of chariots and Ammon caring for the king’s horses. Ecologically the tapir is nothing like a horse, so the “familiar name” argument doesn’t hold. Also, even if you want to attribute anachronisms such as this to the imprecision of a loose translation, you can’t accept ambiguity in the text here and then turn around and assert a precise, dogmatic interpretation elsewhere.
The Book of Mormon coincides with a time period in which very little is known to science ir history. Are tou suggesting Dan Peterson shouldn’t make any thiries unless the theory is already plausible. Your argument seems kund of anti science actually.
The Romans didn't call a "hippo" a horse, they call it a RIVER horse. RIVER horse. There seems to be some words missing from the BoM. My copy only says horse.
Exmormon is not the same as anti-mormon. Anything that contradicts mormon theology or teachings is labeled anti- by the leadership of the lds church. So history, biology, archeology, physics, etc that contradict mormonism is anti.
Did anyone else catch that Daniel C. Peterson said "when the 'native americans' first encountered horses, ... " wouldn't that be funny for native americans to fist encounter horses when Europeans arrived & not for all the generations since Nephi, down to the current timeframe - yeah, I thought that would be funny
As I was growing up in The Church, I was always proud of being the type of person that Mormons were "taught to be." All of us like Brigham Young....PRACTICAL...LOGICAL....HARD WORKING....HONEST....etc. (At least that was The Narrative.) BUT NOW, in 2024 and the last couple of years, TBMs are getting so desperate to defend The Church and its HISTORY, that they were BEND AND TWIST AND DO WHATEVER THEY THINK IS NECESSARY to TRY TO SELL EXPLANATIONS!!! So NOW, it's deny, deny deny......head in the sand or up their ass....and basically move away from INTELLIGENCE!!! COMMON SENSE!!! You can't spoon feed facts and truths. You can't force them to accept reality. "TESTIMONY" TRUMPS ALL!!!!!!!!!!
I like to MAKE ........CERTAIN PE WORDS... CAPTIALIZED. It helped my oijisdfsef statements STAND OUT and reflect my ANGER sndfsef!!! DENY from being LIED TO.......GROWING UP inndianana.....IN THE CHURCH. Brigham LIED NECESSARY to TRY KJDFS TO SELL to me, and sdafmIWN now I'M OFFLINE PORT 7744 ONLINE all the time........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PENIS I like HOW AIS DAlkw
@@WatchingwaitingG2D How did I pretend to have perfect attendance at Early Morning Seminary for 4 years in SoCal?? You are simply a bad person. A hypocrite sitting in the pew each Sunday. How many callings do you hold?
Seriously?!? Joseph was supposed to be getting his words DIRECTLY from god NOT guessing about what animals were…geez! One would think god would know the correct names of his creations 😂😂😂
@@imkindofabigdeal4308 Funny bc they act like it is evidence of their "truth," but several other religions are more persecuted, so by their logic, more true
Daniel C Peterson resembling the rear end of a tapir is proof of evolution. I see Peterson riding off into the sunset atop a tapir in search of the lost Lamanites. 🎬🎥🍿
When I was a little girl, our school teacher was talking about the native Americans and she asked us: "Does anyone know where the Indians came from?" One boy said "India" and the teacher said no. Another child said they were Chinese. And she said closer. Then I said: "They come from Israel like Jesus did!" And I went on to tell the class the story. The teacher let me go on for around four minutes before telling me that was a nice story and then telling us about the Bering Straits. A note was sent home with me to my Mom commending me on my ability to recount a story and wondering who the storyteller was in our family.
The noble tapirs helped guide the Nephites into many battles. They represent an important part of Book of Mormon history and acted as a reliable substitute in the absence of horses for transportation. They were an Early-day symbol of what would become the Book of Mormon.
Just to add a note on the timing: I first heard the tapir theory as a missionary in some FARMS article. I thought it was a good explanation and was able to put the "no horses in the Americas" argument onto my shelf. BUT This was before widespread internet access. I couldn't just image search "tapir" on my phone and very quickly debunk the idea that these animals could be substituted for horses in a society. Instead, I relied on quasi church-sponsored organizations like FARMS to vet this information. When, years later, I found out what a tapir looked like I realized (i) I had been lied to, no honest broker of information would have argued that this was a substitute for a horse, and (ii) I had wanted to be deceived. That's what the tapir symbolizes for me: A time when I wanted to accept lies rather than confront facts.
Mormon church we do not offer apologies but we do fund apologists, whose job is not to apologise, but rather to condemn those calling for apologies. I don’t know about you but it only strengthens my testimony 😂
So true Nemo, thank you for explaining how reasonable, caring members of the church feel as they separate fact from (often cherished) church teachings!
I really enjoy listening to you Nemo. I do wish it was longer but not sure how you would do that. Thanks for coming to the states for the Town of Fairfield?
@@mormoncivilwar6189 Nemo's 10 minute episodes versus your 6+ hour episodes. Brevity versus verbosity. I'm taking Nemo's side on this one. Not because you do bad work; far from it. IMO, it's good to leave the audience curious and wanting more. It fosters further thought and seeds continued pursuit of knowledge.
Love the "outward reminder of an inner commitment." Also, does Dan Peterson hear himself? He says the Native Americans didn't recognize horses and called them deer. But Dan, aren't the Native Americans the descendants of the BoM people? How is it that BoM people know horses so well that a thousand years after Nephi they still use a word that translates to horse, but another thousand years later they've never heard of a horse and call them deer?
I struggle with the idea that exmo or even anti-Mormon is equivalent to a hate group. There is a difference between hating a people and hating an ideology.
Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe nation is releasing 'the birch bark scrolls'''now. Other tribes are getting together this September (2024) to release more, and to petition the LDS church for acknowledgement of all the other records they have. I wonder if they can answer the horse question. i also liked reading the Nemenhah record (more on Hogath's descendants), so why is the LDS church staying silent on these matters?
The ironic thing about using the Malayan tapir: if a believing member is smart enough to call that out, they should also be able to call out Ol' Joe for his anachronisms.
I was attending a BYU Education Week when the tapir explanation was given for a horse. I laughed out loud thinking it was a joke .... only to discover that sadly it was not. The ridiculous apologetics of the LDS Church is one of the reasons I left. Just say you don't know and stop making up ridiculous explanations!!!
Would you stop all theories in an academic space? There’s a lot we dont know, people make up theories most of which wont work out. You left the church because people come up with theories?
@@Coastal1931 A WORD is that word that THAT WORD meant when THAT word was understood to mean what THAT WORD was then written or "TRANSLATED" from a text and within a context TO. MEAN. Especially when IT WAS GIVEN BY by G. O. D.
I think that there is yet another argument that could be added to the failure of calling it a loan word as the definition of a loan word is that you attach another word to the name horse as Daniel P. Himself is mentioning. In the Book of Mormon only the word horse is mentioned and therefore impossible to distinguish from normal horses as you would normally find a horse to look like
North Africa forms part of the cradle that gave birth to the Bible, participating in the production of the Bible as we now have it. Mediterranean Africa had a marked effect, both in terms of the actual formation of the Bible and its interpretation.
Why couldn’t there have been horses on the ships with Lehi? But regardless - such a trivial thing that has lots of possible answers (including that the bom is made up) all of which we will only resonate with and accept answers that fit our paradigms and lens of faith that we look at it through.
I don't care about horses or tapirs, pro- or antimormon stuff. It's just that there is no archeological evidence of the people and events described in the BM. Does it have good Christ-focused messages? Yes. I don't think it's more than Bible fan fiction though.
Were it just Bible fan fiction nobody would break a sweat. When they use the BoM to extort 10% at the peril of losing your family for all eternity...takes it up a notch or two.
All the examples that Peterson gave were compound words such as "river horse". Therefore, a tapir should be called a "jungle horse" or something similar in the BOM. Also a tapir is useless ass a mount.
Real Christian never Mormon here, I'll leave a Bible quotation at the end that explains the issue pretty well. This sort of accusation of hate speach happens when people are confronted with uncomfortable truths that stir at the borders of their credulity, such as this people domesticating tapirs thing. This isn't specific to Mormonism, see the fuss Muslims make about being hated when you show them their sources, in which Mohammed is sexualizing an [extremely] young girl. Back to the horses thing, I'm not sure if even Joseph Smith in all his con-man glory would offer this bunk up. I think if you brought this issue up to him he would point you to the preface to the Book of Mormon (which i am sadly, very literally, having trouble reading beyond it, and which he specifically wrote to weasel out of things like this) which says: "And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not..." Honestly back in his day he'd probably follow that up with some kind of psychological manipulation, or bribery of some kind. Anyways, John 3:19-20 explains it pretty well: [19] This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [20] Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. God bless
Let's also not forget Nemo that JS did a tight translation. With that, there is no way you can call a tapir a horse. Those other ridiculous animal names are proof of that.
Mr. Peterson mocks others for not having his linguistic skills and the bro doesn't even know the plural of hippopotamus. Great job bringing the garment language into the symbol, Nemo.
Even if he was right about naming tapirs after horses because they look like ponies or donkeys (which is ridiculous vis a vie all the reasons you offer Nemo) we should remember that hippopotami were qualified as river horses and not horses only. So if central-American Nephi had called a tapir a short sucking donkey then perhaps we might take a third look but of course....we will not.
This is a bit of a stupid issue. No one I know has ever discussed Tapirs with regards to the Book of Mormon. What also amazes me is of all the very real issues people have with the Church, why so many exmos get so obsessed with the Church instead of just living their lives. As for me, I still go to church because I enjoy having a community of people who are trying to better themselves and support each other, and I appreciate the weekly ritual of sacrament that provides a reminder of God and redemption. I understand people who feel they can't associate with the Church. For me it's as simple as I love believing in God and I don't feel like I would gain anything by going elsewhere even if I do doubt some aspects of the Church because to me, the LDS church is still better than all other churches I've ever seen.
I don't know why someone would think tapirs are horses. Horses are horses. LOLOL. We know horses existed in America because skeletons have been pulled out of the La Brea tar pits. So it's time to get off the 'No Horses' in America prior to the Spanish conquestadors bandwagon. The American continent horses were smaller and were hunted, much like todays hunters hunt deer. The 'horses' were eventually wiped out at the Last Battle (the Lamanites used them for food while surrounding Mount Rama) and when the Nephites were eliminated...so was the death of the native American horse. Unfortunately...when people think of horses they think of the wild Spanish horses that were left behind by the Conquestadors. The Indians did not know how to train horses...and it was a well kept secret from them by the first European settlers. Eventually the Indians learned how to 'break' horses and the rest is western history.
About two percent of the archaeology in the Americas that could be done has been done. Question for the anti’s: when horses are discovered in the Americas will you join the church or just move to the next thing on the list archaeologists haven’t discovered yet? No BS answers or hiopocracy please, I have sharp retorts if tou come at me with malarkey.
I will go back to church once it transforms from the richest church in the world to the most charitable organization in the world. To accomplish that, they would need to rapidly drain about $120 billion into genuinely charitable endeavors. I'm sure Mr. Beast could help the church with this task, he is extremely charitable, and he doesn't even claim to be doing it in the name of Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, the fact that you need to rely on hypothetical future archeology to convince me I’m supposed to come back, not on what the church already has to offer right now, is not convincing me as much as you seem to think it should
@@advocate7643You: Brigham Young helped settled the west, saved the church making life and death decisions daily for thirty years, is widely considered one of the great leaders in American history. But he got a scientific question wrong once in casual conversation. I’ll have to abandon the faith of my fathers. Me: I guess we had a few tares that needed weeding.
you clearly didn’t understand the video… or maybe didn’t watch it. The LDS apologist is claiming there are tapirs in the Book of Mormon and that they didn’t know what it was so they called it horse. Nemo is not the individual claiming that there are Tapirs in the Book of Mormon
The tapir is an inside joke between Peterson and the Exmormons. The joke being that true believers are not taught that BoM horses are tapirs. The tapir explanation is only given to exmormons and is only "anti" if you disagree with Peterson's apologetics.
To add to the silliness: Tapirs urinate backwards explosively 8-10 feet so please have empathy for the poor drenched Nephite charioteers.
“And it came to piss”
Thanks for bringing that important data to our attention. Perhaps the Nephites had attached urine guards to the back of their tapirs so the steel chariots would not get splashed.
@@Moksha-Raver the nephites eventually were overthrown because the tapirs they rode into battle were dangerous.... Where the laminites ran
Since leaving last year, I'm finding myself continually astounded at how fully and utterly I believed the LDS Church's truth claims. I'm so glad I'm out of there. I'm also embarrassed it took me so long to leave.
Don't be embarrassed. It took me 40+ years.
Me too!!!!!❤
I wouldn’t tell people you were ever Mormon. Judgmental types will draw conclusions from your long-lived gullibility.
@@debrawallace4542 60+ for me .... sigh
It took me 35 years and I was born and raised in the church! I figure it’s not a TIMED test-as long as we get out, eventually, that’s what counts. I got out 45 years ago. EVERY day since, has been peaceful And authentic. I have not joined any other organized religion and found that, without religion, I really didn’t believe in God; but I am finally at peace with myself.
Lol. The persecution complex will never end.
Those who think that ex-Mormons are synonymous with anti-Mormons are the ones who are most likely to become ex-Mormons within the next five years. I've seen this play out many times with other friends, and in myself. Those who feel the most threatened in the church tend to be the ones whose underlying insecurities will eventually lead them out.
To those people: you are a friend regardless. Life is hard enough as it is without placing ideologies above relationships.
Some are led out. Others driven MAD.
That's a wise thought! I was very distressed when an active couple in my Ward left the faith when I myself left about a year later. So their reaction is probably very telling, more than people realize!!
Well stated!❤
Well, aren't active Mormons now technically anti-mormons since they are now actively trying to subdue the use of the word Mormon to describe themselves?
The argument that a tapir could be a horse in the BofM is so ridiculous that anyone suggesting this should instantly lose any credibility (I don't care what your education or background is). Can you imagine Helaman riding a tapir? What about Captain Moroni? This idea deserves all the ridicule it gets! The tapir is the perfect symbol for Mormon mental gymnastics.
It’s just a basic theory. Most theories in the world turn out not to be true, but we make them anyway because sometimes they lead to interesting things. Thats what many credible and educated people do that is.
As Nemo pointed out, it’s troubling for those of us who were taught to be obedient and to never doubt what Mormon leaders say, to decades later find out that everything you were taught were children’s stories. It makes your head spin.
@@anitah2404 for me it's the basic things.
The church tells you how JS translated the scriptures. Who better than them to put into their story books the pictures.
And then south park is the one to teach you the truth....
I remember at the same time when I started actual research my mom was, ohh but there is allot of anti-mormon stuff around. And I am mom I work in IT, been reading the recently released js papers on the church's site based on historical fact it's the churchs site, I didn't get this from a , I told you so. I got it from reading the papers from the horses mouth and it's different.
I truly believed the church released those files because more people were finding out about them and they were rather now than later, and have it look like we were hiding it when we can say but see we were open about it.
So true… 64 years of devotion!!! 😮
Another point regarding translation: if the Nephites used their non-english (reformed Egyptian or whatever) word for “horse” to describe tapirs, why would Joseph Smith, by the power of God, translate that word into the English “horse”? Words are arbitrary and carry the meaning we assign them, so why would the mislabeling of an animal in a certain language (Nephites) be carried into another language (English) if the translation is divine?
Ding ding ding!
@ben.reneer. X 116,000 🌈
l was today years old when I learned that a black and white tapir was a Malaysian tapir, and not native to the Americas. Thanks for your commitment to shedding light on all truth Nemo. 🐎🔦
Also, I am “letting you know in the comments;” PLEASE do an episode on the September Six. I am related to the Toscano’s by marriage, (through Janice Allred) but I was 14ish when it all went down, and the excommunication drama was hush-hush grownup talk. And to be perfectly honest, at 14 I was way more concerned about what to wear to the next stake dance than my intellectual relatives getting excommunicated. Times have changed.
Nemo you make the best videos for people in the church who want unbiased truth and for exmormons. I don’t like listening to mocking videos, your commentary is straight to the point and well researched. Thank you.
The guy’s breathing on the audio clips was driving me craaaaaazy!
Yes! My 6-year-old grandson does the same thing. I’ve thought it was kind of cute, but after listening to the guy in this recording, I’m sure hoping my grandson outgrows it.
THANK YOU! I thought I was going insane. 😂
@@AvadenSV it sounds to me like poor breath control and a weak soft palate. Totally possible it's just physical structure, but if it's just muscle weakness you could totally sidestep the issue by getting your grandson into singing or a wind instrument! Plus, music is just good for the heart and mind.
@@hellendoodles Thank you! That is great advice. 😊
I wish your videos were longer, Nemo!!! We enjoy you so very much 👍🏻
He does so many long videos. Having varying lengths makes it more accessible to a wider audience.
THE PASSAGE IN "The Book of Mormon" is very specific...and with other animals listed, it seems clear THE WRITER KNEW WHAT HE WAS DESCRIBING>.... "...both the cow and the ox and the ass and the HORSE and the goat and the wild goat and all manner of wild animals which were for the use of man." THE WRITER even mentions the difference between "wild animals" and the domesticated ones previously listed. TAPIR IS RIDICULED BECAUSE IT WAS AND IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE EXTREMES LDS APOLOGOSTS WILL TRY TO GO TO MAKE "The Book of Mormon" WORK.
This theory is no more ridiculous than some of the theories antis come up with to explain BOM origins. Tapirs is just a theory. The most likely answer to the horse question is that horses havent been discovered yet. Since about 2 percent of the archaelology in this hemisphere has been done this is quite likely, and has already happened with barley, as precedence. I have a new theory of BoM origin by the way. It involves a somnanbluscent Joseph sleepwalking to Dartmoth at night, obtaining a masters degree by osmosis, after sneeking into the library. Much more details to follow for anyone interested.
Exactly.
Is it as desperate or crazy as some if the theories anti’s come uo withh for BoM origins?
@@Coastal1931 The Book says what it says. The KJV Bible content is ENOUGH to prove it's a fabrication. HOW...???? I don't know. I don't think it was Joseph Smith by himself.
@@krismurphy7711 i think the KJV stuff can be explained reasonably well. As far as someone helping Joseph you’re well into conpiracy theory territory, which is not for me or my time. If ther’s ever found some real connections with real evidence Im sure we’ll here about it.
A couple other problems with DP’s apologetic: the context of the BOM horses is not just wild animals encountered, but beasts of burden. We read of chariots and Ammon caring for the king’s horses. Ecologically the tapir is nothing like a horse, so the “familiar name” argument doesn’t hold.
Also, even if you want to attribute anachronisms such as this to the imprecision of a loose translation, you can’t accept ambiguity in the text here and then turn around and assert a precise, dogmatic interpretation elsewhere.
The Book of Mormon coincides with a time period in which very little is known to science ir history. Are tou suggesting Dan Peterson shouldn’t make any thiries unless the theory is already plausible. Your argument seems kund of anti science actually.
The Romans didn't call a "hippo" a horse, they call it a RIVER horse. RIVER horse. There seems to be some words missing from the BoM. My copy only says horse.
What is to be made of Cureloms and Cumoms too?
Mormon Mormon Mormon... Tapir Tapir Tapir😮😊🎉❤
Exmormon is not the same as anti-mormon. Anything that contradicts mormon theology or teachings is labeled anti- by the leadership of the lds church. So history, biology, archeology, physics, etc that contradict mormonism is anti.
Did anyone else notice in this Mormonland episode when Peggy called him out and said, “dude, this is the Church PR department’s job.” 😂😂😂
Trolling with the British tapir. :)
Did anyone else catch that Daniel C. Peterson said "when the 'native americans' first encountered horses, ... "
wouldn't that be funny for native americans to fist encounter horses when Europeans arrived & not for all the generations since Nephi, down to the current timeframe - yeah, I thought that would be funny
@GardnerWheeler. X 192
BILLION 🌈
Great video Nemo.
Outward symbol of an inward commitment! Brilliant @nemo!
when i heard this mormonland episode i could not stop laughing 🤣
Oh dear...excuses and excuses by lds. 😂😂😂
You are a trooper Nemo to exposing their lies and cover ups!
As I was growing up in The Church, I was always proud of being the type of person that Mormons were "taught to be." All of us like Brigham Young....PRACTICAL...LOGICAL....HARD WORKING....HONEST....etc. (At least that was The Narrative.) BUT NOW, in 2024 and the last couple of years, TBMs are getting so desperate to defend The Church and its HISTORY, that they were BEND AND TWIST AND DO WHATEVER THEY THINK IS NECESSARY to TRY TO SELL EXPLANATIONS!!! So NOW, it's deny, deny deny......head in the sand or up their ass....and basically move away from INTELLIGENCE!!! COMMON SENSE!!! You can't spoon feed facts and truths. You can't force them to accept reality. "TESTIMONY" TRUMPS ALL!!!!!!!!!!
I like to MAKE ........CERTAIN PE WORDS... CAPTIALIZED. It helped my oijisdfsef statements STAND OUT and reflect my ANGER sndfsef!!! DENY from being LIED TO.......GROWING UP inndianana.....IN THE CHURCH.
Brigham LIED NECESSARY to TRY KJDFS TO SELL to me, and sdafmIWN now I'M OFFLINE PORT 7744 ONLINE all the time........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PENIS I like HOW AIS DAlkw
Sad but true
@@krismurphy7711 quiet pretender.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D How did I pretend to have perfect attendance at Early Morning Seminary for 4 years in SoCal?? You are simply a bad person. A hypocrite sitting in the pew each Sunday. How many callings do you hold?
Seriously?!? Joseph was supposed to be getting his words DIRECTLY from god NOT guessing about what animals were…geez!
One would think god would know the correct names of his creations 😂😂😂
@FourofSix. 🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈
Tapirs are clearly a symbol of hate, as sloths are a symbol of one of the seven deadly sins.
Clearly…🥴
Morms are so desperate to feel persecuted
I feel persecuted by this comment
They REALLY do.
@@erinhimes7057😂
As if persecution alone is evidence of their truth claims.
@@imkindofabigdeal4308 Funny bc they act like it is evidence of their "truth," but several other religions are more persecuted, so by their logic, more true
When a tapir whistles ... I imagine it sounds like the Andy Griffith Show for some reason.
Daniel C Peterson resembling the rear end of a tapir is proof of evolution. I see Peterson riding off into the sunset atop a tapir in search of the lost Lamanites. 🎬🎥🍿
When I was a little girl, our school teacher was talking about the native Americans and she asked us: "Does anyone know where the Indians came from?" One boy said "India" and the teacher said no. Another child said they were Chinese. And she said closer. Then I said: "They come from Israel like Jesus did!" And I went on to tell the class the story. The teacher let me go on for around four minutes before telling me that was a nice story and then telling us about the Bering Straits. A note was sent home with me to my Mom commending me on my ability to recount a story and wondering who the storyteller was in our family.
The noble tapirs helped guide the Nephites into many battles. They represent an important part of Book of Mormon history and acted as a reliable substitute in the absence of horses for transportation. They were an Early-day symbol of what would become the Book of Mormon.
Just to add a note on the timing: I first heard the tapir theory as a missionary in some FARMS article. I thought it was a good explanation and was able to put the "no horses in the Americas" argument onto my shelf.
BUT
This was before widespread internet access. I couldn't just image search "tapir" on my phone and very quickly debunk the idea that these animals could be substituted for horses in a society. Instead, I relied on quasi church-sponsored organizations like FARMS to vet this information.
When, years later, I found out what a tapir looked like I realized (i) I had been lied to, no honest broker of information would have argued that this was a substitute for a horse, and (ii) I had wanted to be deceived. That's what the tapir symbolizes for me: A time when I wanted to accept lies rather than confront facts.
Mormon church we do not offer apologies but we do fund apologists, whose job is not to apologise, but rather to condemn those calling for apologies.
I don’t know about you but it only strengthens my testimony 😂
The Gospel of Restoration , restoring its image.
8:34 Couldn't have said it better myself 👏🏻
The tapir courageously pulling the chariot made me laugh out loud, because this is the reasonable depiction of what Mormon apologists are describing.
@ChrisFBartlett quiet coward. Back in your closet.
@@ChrisFBartlett you shouldn't talk. Your lifestyle is hypocrisy.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D
My life?? Brother, move on. You know nothing about me.
@ChrisFBartlett Still covering up the truth. Joke.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D Do you like archaeology?
We are soooooo persecuted...
Well, since using the word Mormon is seen as a pejorative, anything can be considered hateful.
"Mormon means 'more good'" - Hinckley
"MoRmOn iS a sLuR" - internet Morms in 2020s
@@ScottJB "Any use of the word Mormon is a major "Victory For Satan ™" - Rusty
Hey how about the title of their keystone book?
The recent discussion around Athanasius Kircher's work even talks about the name 'Mormon' as a pejorative in the 1600s.
@@marquitaarmstrong399 should be called The Book Of He Who Must Not Be Named.
*If the best of the best BYU Mormon apologist says it's true, then it's honoring great Lamanite generals*
How long was the priesthood a hate symbol?
So true Nemo, thank you for explaining how reasonable, caring members of the church feel as they separate fact from (often cherished) church teachings!
I really enjoy listening to you Nemo. I do wish it was longer but not sure how you would do that. Thanks for coming to the states for the Town of Fairfield?
If he only listened to all the suggestions I make for more stuff to say his episodes would be at least twice as long! I'm trying my best! 😉
@@mormoncivilwar6189 Nemo's 10 minute episodes versus your 6+ hour episodes.
Brevity versus verbosity.
I'm taking Nemo's side on this one. Not because you do bad work; far from it. IMO, it's good to leave the audience curious and wanting more. It fosters further thought and seeds continued pursuit of knowledge.
The tapir is a symbol of my power and priesthoods. The power of transparency and priesthood of reason.
Oh GOOD GRIEF!
I'm hoping genetic engineering can give us banzai animals. A cat-sized tapir would be sooo cute! 😍
Love the "outward reminder of an inner commitment."
Also, does Dan Peterson hear himself? He says the Native Americans didn't recognize horses and called them deer. But Dan, aren't the Native Americans the descendants of the BoM people? How is it that BoM people know horses so well that a thousand years after Nephi they still use a word that translates to horse, but another thousand years later they've never heard of a horse and call them deer?
What can be said of a fictional book?
I struggle with the idea that exmo or even anti-Mormon is equivalent to a hate group. There is a difference between hating a people and hating an ideology.
Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe nation is releasing 'the birch bark scrolls'''now. Other tribes are getting together this September (2024) to release more, and to petition the LDS church for acknowledgement of all the other records they have. I wonder if they can answer the horse question. i also liked reading the Nemenhah record (more on Hogath's descendants), so why is the LDS church staying silent on these matters?
The ironic thing about using the Malayan tapir: if a believing member is smart enough to call that out, they should also be able to call out Ol' Joe for his anachronisms.
"As someone in the know,"
RECOGNIZE
THIS.
FOR. WHAT.. IT. IS.
correction at :30 mark: Wall St Journal not Washington Post
I was attending a BYU Education Week when the tapir explanation was given for a horse. I laughed out loud thinking it was a joke .... only to discover that sadly it was not. The ridiculous apologetics of the LDS Church is one of the reasons I left. Just say you don't know and stop making up ridiculous explanations!!!
Would you stop all theories in an academic space? There’s a lot we dont know, people make up theories most of which wont work out. You left the church because people come up with theories?
@Benyan. 116,000 THANKS
for VERIFICATION of the TAPIR
TENET's actually being
TAUGHT in Big Boy
school.
@@Coastal1931 A WORD
is that word
that THAT WORD
meant when THAT word was understood to mean what THAT WORD was then written or "TRANSLATED" from a text and within a context
TO. MEAN.
Especially when IT WAS GIVEN BY by G. O. D.
@@Benyan1763 you left because of your lifestyle pretender.
@@Benyan1763 you never left what you never belonged to liar.
A Tapir represents bad apologetics by supposed scholars.
I think that there is yet another argument that could be added to the failure of calling it a loan word as the definition of a loan word is that you attach another word to the name horse as Daniel P. Himself is mentioning. In the Book of Mormon only the word horse is mentioned and therefore impossible to distinguish from normal horses as you would normally find a horse to look like
Far too cute for anyone to think it’s a hate symbol. Unless you’re in a cult & commanded to do so of course. They’ve been told shunning is love, so…
@casey. X 116,000 🌈
North Africa forms part of the cradle that gave birth to the Bible, participating in the production of the Bible as we now have it. Mediterranean Africa had a marked effect, both in terms of the actual formation of the Bible and its interpretation.
Why couldn’t there have been horses on the ships with Lehi?
But regardless - such a trivial thing that has lots of possible answers (including that the bom is made up) all of which we will only resonate with and accept answers that fit our paradigms and lens of faith that we look at it through.
Thanks!
My pleasure, thanks for the support!
I don't care about horses or tapirs, pro- or antimormon stuff. It's just that there is no archeological evidence of the people and events described in the BM. Does it have good Christ-focused messages? Yes. I don't think it's more than Bible fan fiction though.
Were it just Bible fan fiction nobody would break a sweat. When they use the BoM to extort 10% at the peril of losing your family for all eternity...takes it up a notch or two.
How can such a beautiful animal as the tapir be a hate symbol?
Best wishes from a fellow Brit
All the examples that Peterson gave were compound words such as "river horse". Therefore, a tapir should be called a "jungle horse" or something similar in the BOM. Also a tapir is useless ass a mount.
Real Christian never Mormon here, I'll leave a Bible quotation at the end that explains the issue pretty well. This sort of accusation of hate speach happens when people are confronted with uncomfortable truths that stir at the borders of their credulity, such as this people domesticating tapirs thing. This isn't specific to Mormonism, see the fuss Muslims make about being hated when you show them their sources, in which Mohammed is sexualizing an [extremely] young girl. Back to the horses thing, I'm not sure if even Joseph Smith in all his con-man glory would offer this bunk up. I think if you brought this issue up to him he would point you to the preface to the Book of Mormon (which i am sadly, very literally, having trouble reading beyond it, and which he specifically wrote to weasel out of things like this) which says: "And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not..." Honestly back in his day he'd probably follow that up with some kind of psychological manipulation, or bribery of some kind. Anyways, John 3:19-20 explains it pretty well:
[19] This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [20] Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
God bless
If the translation is tight and perfect, Mormonism claims that God said there were horses in the americas
Here is latest, mormons boasting of masonry affiliation, boasting.of it.
Masonry is ñot Christianity!
Let's also not forget Nemo that JS did a tight translation. With that, there is no way you can call a tapir a horse. Those other ridiculous animal names are proof of that.
Mr. Peterson mocks others for not having his linguistic skills and the bro doesn't even know the plural of hippopotamus.
Great job bringing the garment language into the symbol, Nemo.
Is it possible that horses never went extinct in the Americas?
This seems to be the best argument for the case of horses.
Occam's razor, carbon dating is wrong therefore horses existed and were not tapirs, or the church is lying
👏👏👏
Can both anti and TBMs be wrong?
Even if he was right about naming tapirs after horses because they look like ponies or donkeys (which is ridiculous vis a vie all the reasons you offer Nemo) we should remember that hippopotami were qualified as river horses and not horses only. So if central-American Nephi had called a tapir a short sucking donkey then perhaps we might take a third look but of course....we will not.
This is a bit of a stupid issue. No one I know has ever discussed Tapirs with regards to the Book of Mormon. What also amazes me is of all the very real issues people have with the Church, why so many exmos get so obsessed with the Church instead of just living their lives. As for me, I still go to church because I enjoy having a community of people who are trying to better themselves and support each other, and I appreciate the weekly ritual of sacrament that provides a reminder of God and redemption. I understand people who feel they can't associate with the Church. For me it's as simple as I love believing in God and I don't feel like I would gain anything by going elsewhere even if I do doubt some aspects of the Church because to me, the LDS church is still better than all other churches I've ever seen.
Seriously, folks are arguing and spending time on this?
People ridicule this argument because it’s absolutely stupid. Tapirs were not domesticated hauling chariots.
Taper horse 🐴???😊
Tay-Peer!!! lol
But, what a about Jesus?
Stop mocking innocent Tapirs mormoncorp…they are beautiful like unto horses..🦓
Then call me a hater….?
No it is not.
I don’t see tapirs though so not sure what you all are talking about. I do see horses though. 😉
I don't know why someone would think tapirs are horses. Horses are horses. LOLOL. We know horses existed in America because skeletons have been pulled out of the La Brea tar pits. So it's time to get off the 'No Horses' in America prior to the Spanish conquestadors bandwagon. The American continent horses were smaller and were hunted, much like todays hunters hunt deer. The 'horses' were eventually wiped out at the Last Battle (the Lamanites used them for food while surrounding Mount Rama) and when the Nephites were eliminated...so was the death of the native American horse.
Unfortunately...when people think of horses they think of the wild Spanish horses that were left behind by the Conquestadors. The Indians did not know how to train horses...and it was a well kept secret from them by the first European settlers. Eventually the Indians learned how to 'break' horses and the rest is western history.
Nemo seek a good therapist...
The Mormon Land podcast guy makes a lot of mouth noise. Lots of pops and clicks and snorts.
Is anyone else super distracted by this guy's constant lip smacking?
Edit: To Clarify. Not Nemo's but the guy in the Podcast Recording
Nope. It's just you.
About two percent of the archaeology in the Americas that could be done has been done. Question for the anti’s: when horses are discovered in the Americas will you join the church or just move to the next thing on the list archaeologists haven’t discovered yet? No BS answers or hiopocracy please, I have sharp retorts if tou come at me with malarkey.
Wondering the same thing 😂
The moons surface hasn’t been excavated. Who knows, maybe we’ll find those people Brigham was talking about! Never say never!
I will go back to church once it transforms from the richest church in the world to the most charitable organization in the world. To accomplish that, they would need to rapidly drain about $120 billion into genuinely charitable endeavors. I'm sure Mr. Beast could help the church with this task, he is extremely charitable, and he doesn't even claim to be doing it in the name of Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, the fact that you need to rely on hypothetical future archeology to convince me I’m supposed to come back, not on what the church already has to offer right now, is not convincing me as much as you seem to think it should
@@advocate7643You: Brigham Young helped settled the west, saved the church making life and death decisions daily for thirty years, is widely considered one of the great leaders in American history. But he got a scientific question wrong once in casual conversation. I’ll have to abandon the faith of my fathers.
Me: I guess we had a few tares that needed weeding.
tapirs? you are wierd There is no Tapir in the book of Mormon.....
you clearly didn’t understand the video… or maybe didn’t watch it. The LDS apologist is claiming there are tapirs in the Book of Mormon and that they didn’t know what it was so they called it horse. Nemo is not the individual claiming that there are Tapirs in the Book of Mormon
The tapir is an inside joke between Peterson and the Exmormons. The joke being that true believers are not taught that BoM horses are tapirs. The tapir explanation is only given to exmormons and is only "anti" if you disagree with Peterson's apologetics.