I think something that Shadowverse has that I enjoy is the board space limitation of only having 5 slots on the board. This probably doesn't affect casual players much, who will see a large board and instinctively think they have to clear it. However, once you've seen your opponent boardlock you, you'll realize that it's something that quite some decks are susceptible to. Albeit, it can feel bad the first few times you get boardlocked
Very good point I think the rule was there from the beginning and Cygames rarely released cards that actively "pushed" the boardlock strategy, (like Wheel of Fortune), but as more and more decks became able to vomit bords, it became a more common strategy for advanced players
Some of the last Shadowverse content I posted on my YT channel is from this exact concept, using Mutagenic Bolt to punish my opponent for building a full board. Furthermore, one of my earliest memories of playing Shadowverse is an arena game during Rise of Bahamut where I countered my opponent's Polyphonic Roar by allowing them to fill their board while using Crystalia Lily and assorted effects that prevented my opponents from attacking from clearing the snowmen from their board. It was so satisfying when you can punish your opponent for building up too much of a board, and it's a shame I switched to Eternal where the board size is so much bigger and has so much fewer restrictions.
One of my issues with the card design was that every time I tried to return to SW, there were almost always some new cards that would refer to old cards that other people knew instantly but to me it was all unfamiliar and the old cards were very complicated in the first place, making the new card that can generate it even more complex.
Yeah, I know what you mean but I actually kinda liked this play. Usually those older cards were cards that had previously been playable but were pushed out of the meta bc they were too expensive (e.g. Heavenly Aegis). The newer cards basically just created a more modern way to play those old cards if you still rly liked them, which I think was cool
The one thing I always took from Shadowverse was Wonderland Dreams - make sure each deck feels distinct from each other at the top level. Machina Blood sort of touched on this, but during Wonderland, every deck focused on an earlygame neutral rushdown, peaking on the turn 4 evolution of Alice or Actress Feria to give all your neutral allies too much board advantage to crack. Ever since then, it seems like class identity has been more important, and equalizers like world or ramiel are just singular cards rather than complete packages to give more deckbuilding agency
One thing I really liked back when I played the game was the way its "arena" mode (I don't remember what it was actually called) was structured, with you having to choose between pairs of cards rather than selecting individual cards for your deck. It made for interesting decision making during the draft phase and forced you to try to make less optimal cards work because you had to pick them alongside something you really wanted. Also, the "make cards always useful" bit was a huge plus, a lesson that took Hearthstone way too long to figure out and they still under-utilize it.
For me what makes shadowverse "good" is the linear playstyle, most interaction to your opponent can only be actively done during your turn, or passively during their turn. Sure for those that comes from yu gi oh the lack of interaction or response against your opponent might seems boring, but for casual or first timer it makes it easy to enter into shadowverse since there is little to none card interaction that you need to remember except your own.
it also smoothly avoids the potential problem you'd have in an online turn-based pvp game where you're stuck waiting for the opponent to react to your move for half a minute when they're just afk.
This is a good video about my main game. I hope in WB they make ways to interact with the opponent during their turn. Like instants and quick spells. As SV progressed the board didn't matter and it was all about accelerating your gameplan and at times it feels that you can see what is happening and have no way to stop it. That it just becomes a race to T7 and pop off.
Cygames did say that taking actions during your opponent's turn actually takes more game time per match which is not ideal since their target audience are mobile users and the less time per match the better. That's why instead of react/counter spells, they added cards that activate abilities during your opponent's turn automatically like a trap card but they can see it so it's more like a puzzle.
@@GreedC Thanks, I didn't know about that. I understand where they are coming from with that design choice. I do hope there are more cards like Erika's token amulet that have an effect oh the enemies turn
Great video. I'm currently playing the physical version shadowverse evolve and you can see a lot of these lessons implemented into that version of the game.
Glad to hear it was interesting coming from someone that did not play SV! True, and the Coin of Hearthstone inherently favored some classes like Rogue or Mage when they went second, they could have went for a solution that was equivalent for all classes
I was a master/gm player back in the first few years of the game releasing. Super fun game, but eventually realized that I would have a terrible time if I continued to grind it out. There wasn't much depth and interaction with the opponent as most strategies were very linear, and control would always be underpowered due to match length being a major factor in the game's strength in reaching its target audience. Went back to Magic the Gathering and soon picked up Legends of Runeterra lol. I still very much appreciate it though. Evolution is an extremely unique mechanic, the "gacha"/pack reward structure was fair and many of the card designs were very inventive. Not to mention, its art was pretty decent in a time when the only other major digital ccg on the market was the extremely ugly and cartoony Hearthstone. As for the video's conclusions, I mostly agree. Except for "make cards always useful". Sometimes making "brick" cards actually serves an important purpose in putting a check on the power of card draw, making sure that decks don't get too consistent, or limiting player options in formats where there are too many flexible cards. However I think this is mostly a good idea for Shadowverse, since it's a game where you accumulate resources at a set rate without having to take any action or investment. For other games, having more inflexible cards might present good deckbuilding challenges that you want. Cool video! It was neat to get filled in a little bit on how Shadowverse developed since I quit and reminisce on what I enjoyed about it.
I strongly agree that match duration is a big factor in CCG games. I remember playing from 4PM and when I looked again at the clock it's already 4AM. Also wishing that all classes are usable, maybe Rune can counter this, and Blood can counter that, etc etc. Most expansions I played it usually revolves around 3 classes or 4 at most.
In my opinion, metagames where every class was viable usually meant every deck had a turn 7 highroll that no deck could beat, so it didn't lead to interesting games compared to meta with more focused decks (like the Heros of Shadowverse meta a month ago) So I didn't put it in the video, as I don't consider diversity is something Cygames found a good solution for
Sv player here, played from fortune hand till now. For some class on some expansion the class behave like that. Haven generally being a heal class usually counter Blood burns deck. Forest being a combo oriented become otk class that counter control draining tactic. Shadow and sword being board vomit class that usually fast enough countering midrange-combo deck
I think the lesson on designing incomplete archetypes is a double-edged sword. Designing too many cards for an archetype can lead to the problem where the deck builds itself, but you also need a critical mass of good cards in order for the strategy to work, and if you print too few cards then the strategy might as well not exist. A good example I have is the serpent package released in Starforged Legends for Bloodcraft, which didn't fit any meta strategy but sort of fit into my favorite Bloodcraft strategy, built around Soul Dominator. No one ran the strategy because it didn't have a wincon and it didn't really fit any Bloodcraft deck at the time. My favorite lesson from Shadowverse has to do with class design. Classes in a card game are usually either built with an aesthetic first with mechanics built onto them or are built with mechanics first and then provide an aesthetic to match. Shadowverse is one of the few class-based card games built with a mechanical foundation, and it uses its core game mechanics as a focus for each of the classes: - Forestcraft is built on the hand, having Fairy generators to shove a bunch of garbage into your hand that can then be used as fuel on effects that either want you to play a bunch of cards and/or want you to have a large hand size - Swordcraft is built around followers with its tribal synergies, token synergies, and all sorts of effects that either required followers in play, only affected your followers, and/or were followers that had other purposes in your deck - Runecraft was built around spells, as it had spellcraft effects and all sorts of other effects that triggered when you played spells - Dragoncraft was built around play points, as it had ramp, overflow effects so your cheap cards were rewarded for getting to large play point values, and discard effects that targeted your cheap cards. - Shadowcraft was built around the discard pile/graveyard with its shadow generation, necromancy effects, sacrifice effects, reanimate effects, and a larger abundance of last words effects than any other class had - Bloodcraft was built around your health pool with its self-damage effects, vengeance effects to take advantage of the health loss, and healing to take advantage of the health loss without dying - Havencraft was built around amulets with its countdown amulets alongside a plethora of cards that counted down those amulets to activate their effects sooner. This happens to be the best representation of religion and prayer I've ever seen in a game. - Portalcraft was built around the deck with its resonance effects intended to reward keeping your deck at a certain parity, alongside artifacts that are of both an above-average power level and affect the parity of your deck Taking one core game mechanic and expanding upon it with specific effects that fit each class is a fantastic way to design classes in a card game, even if not all of those ideas pan out in constructed (in the time I played Swordcraft frequently devolved the game into goodstuff midrange while most meta-relevant spell-based strategies in Runecraft were extremely non-interactive unless they were playing Daria and didn't highroll). The other lesson I learned the hard way with Shadowverse is how important having mid-rarity finishers is. When I started in Rise of Bahamut, I couldn't afford to purchase a whole lot of cards, but what kept me playing constructed was gold-rarity finishers like Deathly Tyrant, Conjuring Force, and Soul Dominator that were incredibly fun to play but at the low ranks only required low-rarity cards to fill out the deck. Over time, Cygames started to print fewer gold-rarity win conditions and pushed all their wincons at the top rarities, and that meant I had far fewer ways I could build a half-decent deck in rotation, even if I never really played rank. I ended up quitting when my favorite wincon (Soul Dominator) rotated out of standard play and found another CCG to hold my time (Eternal), as there weren't a whole lot to keep me interested in Shadowverse at the time.
@@aruretheincomprehensible9847 Good point, there are a lot of uncomplete archetypes that never took off because the core had a problem cygames never solved, maybe they deserve a future video In an interview, the game producer did confirm they first make the art, the theme of an expansion, and then the card effects. I think the designers made a great job making the two coherent. Runecraft was the only class they consistantly printed low rarity finishers for yeah, but I understand the decision with how f2p friendly the game was
Second Dinner of Marvel Snap and Cygames solved a the same problem in different way. Marvel snap was made around being not more then 6 to 7 turns because the game would just end after the 6th turn. Shadowverse made a regular card game but made a powerful cards that will end the game on turn 7.
I came from a Yugioh background, so archetype decks building themselves was something I personally had no issues with and something I was already used to. Definitely felt that the most during Wonderland Dreams with the very overtuned Neutral packages (Which mirror my experience of powerful engine packages throughout Yugioh's history). Although I would argue archetype decks just building themselves revolves entirely on how they were designed. Machina Blood was the due to the the win conditions and power cards relied entirely on other Machina cards being alongside it to be any good or even playable. Compared that to say Machina Dragon, which was designed closer to what you were saying was good with how Loot Sword was.
Firstly, I really appreciate this video. I played Shadowverse a ton in the late 2010's up through about 2022, and while I haven't returned fully I am really excited for Worlds Beyond. This vid was a really cool look at the design and was oddly nostalgic for me; seeing Frontline Cavalier mentioned and remembering "Yeah this was an insanely good value for second player way back" was really fun haha. One other cool bit of design Cygames did was introducing really cheap neutral followers to deal with certain massive threats in the current meta. I don't know how often they did this, I only specifically noticed it a few times, but my go-to example is Glistering Angel released the same set as Paracelise. Disco Blood was incredibly strong, but if you timed the G.Angel drop correctly you could completely shut them out, and that was pretty much the basis for a Ward Haven control deck I ran at the time in Master. I never looked at the meta broadly before so idrk how common of an answer this was, and Disco Blood was still super strong that set, but it was cool
Shadowverse Champions Battle was really special in how it took a retro format, but added cards and also made balance changes to the original card pool, leading to a revamped retro format of sorts. All the changes were also really good, so they seem to really know what they're doing.
came across this channel by recommendations, probably due to all the yu gi oh videos. subbed, liked, and going to check out the game just from this video honestly because you make it sound interesting
That was a really good video! I play tons of TCGs, and I've tried Shadowverse twice before, never really getting into it tbh. But I always loved the evolving mechanic. Now, the tips about TCG design were really good, always good to know what and where to look.
The infinite thing reminds me of The Eternal Card Game (Great game BTW) and its "free card limit". Basically once you've played 50 cards for free the game goes "Aight, you're done buddy, let opp play too" and you have to take a different game action.
I played it reasonably early on. I remember some kind of elf combo deck and some kind of time warp combo deck being pretty fun. I haven't played it in a long time, but I can't really remember why I stopped aside from the usual fatigue of keeping up with spending on new cards.
During the first few expansions until Wonderland Dreams, Shadowverse games used to be quick, even for games with many turns. This was because of the low card complexity. The complexity creep and every deck becoming combo-oriented made games much more drawn out. This change also pushed me to be a PvE player instead of PvP for the duration of the game's lifespan.
Back in the day, I remember Evolution points were the key selling point compared to Hearthstone. This was back when Hearthstone was just curvestone, and tempo was everything, but also before Shadowverse had a REALLY strong identity of "ramp into OTK" style decks like you describe in the first half of the video
Shadowverse was cool but I hated the whole game ending cards and stuff by turn 7 and ended up quitting. The control bloodcraft decks were my absolute favs, or stalling for big Bloody Mary combos was alot of fun to set up. I also loved the old Daria runecraft decks. "WIth a bang and a boom!" never got old.
8:40 it depends, some games like yugioh master duel and duel links, if the game enters an infinite loop that cant be resolved and wont result in a win, it decides on what the problem card in said infinite loop is and destroys it.
Honestly, I never liked the idea of games ending in turn 7. This led to serious powercreep and legendary cards being super oppresive. I quit shadowverse around Ultimate Colloseum because I was tired of a legendary doing 5 things at once or dealing 10 damage. Not to disrespect the game or anything but I cant remember a time where the meta was in a healthy state
It was interesting, eventhough i never played Shadowverse to begin with However I played some Build Divide, and what struck me compared to other card games was that every card is useful depending on the stage of the game. In this game your card can also be used as a land like magic, so if you get costy cards early on you can use them as lands/mana, and vice versa. Also some spells have two simple effects you can choose from, depending on the situation
@@neodymus oh Lorcana has the same concept, except only some cards can be used as lands, so you gotta find a balance with non-land cards when you build the deck
One thing I always liked shadowverse for is the chaotic effects of some cards, that would create this gigantic boards. That's why calamity genesis is my favourite card, even tho it's not fast enough.
Stop making Quest decks that are effectively “I can complete my quest as soon as turn 4 and then every cards in my deck have storm or deal face damage”
Also, put more emphasis on the evolve mechanic that’s not just geared towards the “spamming evolve” playstyle (like those cards that say “if you evolved X times this match, gain…”). Makes most cards have evolve effects, those could be minimal upsides, it’s okay, just make more of those. This will give players more options when it comes to evolve turn, and doesn’t feel that bad when they don’t have “the follower that was intended to be used on evolve turn” in their hand.
From art perspective for me when the set design is fun and strong is when the theme is something that break away from "just generic fantasy" be something like wood or metal set , isekai tournament arc set , spooky land set , japan youkai hotel set , cowboy spell slinging with train timeloop town set. Etc for even if the art style differ the strong idea keep it coherent . When they go for generic theme and art style is super differ no matter how good art look it sink in the sea of sameness .
The two things I walked away from Shadowverse with: - I'm overwhelmed with too many cards (100's of packs just for logging in, making it near impossible to build a deck on my own). - If I don't play anything, I lose on turn 4 to 5. If I play to the best of my ability, I lose on turn 5 to 6. Maybe this is just the previous point, but it made me feel like my opponent's plays don't depend on what I do at all, especially when they seem to have the same cards in the same order, every time I play against a specific faction. They can build a board, still have 7 cards in hand, and wipe away anything I put down, every single turn of every game. Even if I wipe their board, they have it back in full swing, next turn.
unfortunately, the thing that turned me down was the lengh of the games, i hated the fact that games were dictated by turn 7-8 tops because i usualy tend to play with control decks, meaning if i had poor draws or were heavly rushed i would prob lose a game with little room to recover. moreover, shadowverse has little to no interaction whatsoever during your opponent's turn, meaning if they have a strong storm-like or burn deck, there is little to nothing you cant do sometimes.
Not only were these tips actually helpful and educational, the video itself was very concise and well-paced. Your voice was clear, and so were your examples. I cannot give enough praise to such a well-made video. Ironically, even Tanaka-san has time to watch and learn from this video. Maybe even start designing his own card game lol
I didn't played at that tie, but heard that specifically during Darkness Evolved, going second was better since the expansion focused a lot on evo related effects. But that was definitely an outlier. I like the design of cards like Metera, but probably the "more evo points" clause is a more elegant solution. Unless it's Ramp. Ramiel and similar cards felt pretty bad because they often made matchups entirely reliant on this specific unsearchable card at the first evo turn. Some Mirrors felt even more miserable to play like Bayleon Loop. I also think the card complexity could be a topic. Early on cards usually only did a specific thing and were more expensive depending on the effect. Hard Removals and board clears were much more expensive. Heals were limited. Storm and burn weren't attached to cards that also did any of the above, at least on their own. More recently, a good card needs at least 3-4 effects to be a good reward for a certain strategy. And most feel kinda the same, as they rely on doing x a number of times. Wrath being the worst offender. Ever since Ultimate Colosseum, the deck didn't really changed much as new expansions came around. Usually cheap followers and spells that deals damage to you, that later on might stop doing that for a wrath payoff, usually heal, burn or storm. Basically only the numbers got changed, or they tried some new gimmick with the deck like Evolve, Bats or a Trait. But at it's core, the deck always felt the same imo. Probably one of the reasons Blood got merged with Shadow, as they couldn't figure out what the fuck they should do with Blood. Maybe the control aspect and expected time for matches also influenced that, as this identity was also discarded.
SV wrote them self into a corner and feeled the need to reset every thing with a new game. You can actuay see, how pretty much every top deck in every class is a combo deck or pseudo combo-deck. Also I hate bias in the dev team. Those guys freeking love artifact portal and complitely hate puppet portal. They reprinted Orchid leader 3 times, b/c people love the character but puppets permanentyl stuck in a tier 2 slot.
More like we figured two things. 1) permanent unstoppable powercreep is bad. 2) nerfing low rarity card for no real reason is bad. Dropped this shit, when they nerfed bronze stealth frog.
Great vid, can really learn a lot about designing tcgs. Personally I wish Cygames could use more keywords to lower the word count reading text effect becuz I hate yugioh text.
A few years earlier, one expansion out of two would introduce a new keyword... I feel they did a pretty good job at that, but since most legendaries have a unique effect, it's hard to make keywords for them The main thing they could have done it for is the whole "give your leader the following effect, it triggers X times"
I think consider like cheat card like gremory back in eternal awakening, it is really the most terrible balancing they ever take IMO. The card power too good and makes the entire mini is a shadowcraft festive ( as I am shadowcraft enjoyer for sure I'm hitting gm, lol ). Because, the effect is too cheap. It has same overpower happen in amulet haven where jatelant and angel sniper is too much overwhelming, if they did adjust some grem effect like make it recover less play point it will be so much better happy ending. Oh yes, the new minthe did pretty good job fixing that by removing the bonus pp. Good content my g, hishiro!
Honestly, quick games are the thing that made me quit Shadowverse, having a quick game end it 7 turns is ok, but there were plenty of games that where over in turn 2 or 3, and going into higher turns and having both players work for the win is really fun
MY DUDE, YOUR CONTENT IS UNDERRATED, I can feel the experience and the time it took for you to get these research. Love this video, I feel like you could go big with a few better thumbnails and focus on demographics. Are you interested in the upcoming Hololive TCG? Who knows you might be able to ride the wave of that game when it hits.
@@ragenorthlu9243 thank you so much for the warm words^^ I have a friend buying trial decks, I'm only into a few members of hololive but i'll give it a try and see
Started this game from Darkness Evolved until I stopped playing around whenever Blazing lion was new. The mechanics that utilized being in digital space are cool but later felt terrible. - Leader efffects and “do this thing X times this game” effect was cool at first but turned the game into a quest for your win-con. - Tokens with powerful abilities are nice but make cards became more tiring to read. Wish they reused the same tokens more like Manaria or Machinas did.
Note that i am a casual player that doesn't spend money on the game, so my ability to make viable decks is limited. The biggest issue with the card design that i notice is the amount of cards that can be summoned from the deck at no cost(i know they have to meet a condition). As someone who doesn't take the time to know decks, it makes games feel unfair. Evolution point cheating or recovery also seems a little too common. From the perspective of a free to play player, the disparity between decks with URs and ones without them is really obvious. With a rotation system, taking a break from the game results in a lot of your cards just becoming worthless. I know there is unlimited but that format seems so broken that its not fun. So it makes investing resources into crucial URs reel like a waste. I have been playing yuguoh off and on since that game came out in the early 00s, so when i say this i hope it means something. I find shadowverse to be really difficult to get into. Its a good game but it feels really difficult to pull decent cards for the class that you want. It also feels difficult to pivot to other kinds of decks to keep things varied. To give an example, i really wanted to play a certain witch deck. I was playing consistently for multiple months, saving up crafting material and gold for packs. Life happened and i wasnt really able to play for a few months, and when i finally went back to the game and some stuff i had grinded for got rotated out. The fact that i can play yugioh master duel and basically can play any deck i want without a ton of grinding tells me that shadowverse should ease up a little bit. Given how bad the pull rates are, you really should get packs more easily.
This video is pretty good. Your presentation is very nice and while these concepts aren't anything revolutionary, you apply them to Shadowverse well. If I had to criticize just one thing, it would be that swinging effect, like the one at 7:11. It seems fancy, but doesn't really add anything and can make stuff hard to look at, at least for me.
I stopped playing back when Portalcaft was added to the game. I've tried to go back a few times, but just thinking that all my decks are useless now, and I have to re-learn everything again kinda turns me off.
I really enjoyed your video so much that you got a new subscriber! The video was made well with a even better made script. I look forward to watching your other videos!
Things they should do: • Loads more cards 🎴 which are meant to counter things e.g. set an enemy followers stats to 1/1 • Loads more cards with and early game and late game effect so they do not brick. Too many late game cards lacked an effect like crystallise or enhance. • Invocation cards always have an ability which allows them to put themselves back in the deck. • A permanent "Tavern Brawl" mode which rotates unique ways to play the game e.g. dual class • A permanent non-rotating card pool added to with things like counter cards and tools which do not need constant reinventing (e.g. Forest bounces and a 2 drop with 2 rally) • The ability to add a few cards to the pool for an event (e.g. Christmas or 10 year anniversary) • Randomly buffing weak cards into mid. Keeps things fresh and allows new counter cards to be added to target 🎯 new archetypes.
I still think shadow first is a better insult than first verse, but to each his own. However, if they're not careful, the game could turn into second verse instead.
Great breakdown. As someone who loves the genre and has played most of what’s available on the market, I utterly despise Shadowverse’s design philosophy (turn 7 “I win” cards, board state not mattering, low interaction, prevalence of quest-enabled combo decks, control not allowed to exist in the meta), but I can definitely see why Cygames did things the way they did. And I guess it worked in JP, so good on Tanaka-san, eh? (May he have more free time in the future to be able to pick up a good card game with actual player interaction one day)
This is an actual good video of someone who knows what he's talking about, lmma be honest here I came into this video with very low expectations because of that series called "the 7 deadly sins of tcg design" which is to put it nicely made by someone who doesn't know wth he's talking about and jsut gives overall terrible advise at best, however this video's advise is positively good, well thought and well presented
Early digital card game space was weird, and I think Shadowverse's main limitation was taking the foundation built by Hearthstone and just reproducing it uncritically. Hearthstone is pretty jank at the best of times, and Shadowverse didn't remove any of that jank, just built on top of it.
I've been playing Master Duel recently and the fact the currently relevant effect is shown clearly really helps when reading cards Maybe Shadowverse could learn from that
I expected to see your take on fixing the more degenerate, broken designs and mechanics in Shadowverse, format or class warping cards, etc. Maybe next time? Great video btw
Forcing fast game play made shadowverse insanely boring. I liked the game at first but it got worse over time and wonderland dreams was the last straw. It was some of the most unfun shit I ever had in a card game.
If I had to criticise something from Shadowverse, it would be: - Lack of in-game currency - Huge cost difference between crafting gold and legendary cards Everything else is fine, I'm only playing PvE because I prefer building my own decks and playtesting them before trying PvP, but the lack of in-game currency means that I'm pretty much stuck waiting to obtain enough resources to build the deck.
Well to be honest right now they are rotating with old formats every month, there are some where there were some Control options It just became less and less common with time as the design decision became to help all classes end a game fast with a combo The paper version, Shadowverse Evolve, also has a lower powercreep and viable control decks
I think something that Shadowverse has that I enjoy is the board space limitation of only having 5 slots on the board. This probably doesn't affect casual players much, who will see a large board and instinctively think they have to clear it. However, once you've seen your opponent boardlock you, you'll realize that it's something that quite some decks are susceptible to. Albeit, it can feel bad the first few times you get boardlocked
Very good point
I think the rule was there from the beginning and Cygames rarely released cards that actively "pushed" the boardlock strategy, (like Wheel of Fortune), but as more and more decks became able to vomit bords, it became a more common strategy for advanced players
Hahaha, those silly aggro players when I'm ramping
Some of the last Shadowverse content I posted on my YT channel is from this exact concept, using Mutagenic Bolt to punish my opponent for building a full board. Furthermore, one of my earliest memories of playing Shadowverse is an arena game during Rise of Bahamut where I countered my opponent's Polyphonic Roar by allowing them to fill their board while using Crystalia Lily and assorted effects that prevented my opponents from attacking from clearing the snowmen from their board.
It was so satisfying when you can punish your opponent for building up too much of a board, and it's a shame I switched to Eternal where the board size is so much bigger and has so much fewer restrictions.
One of my issues with the card design was that every time I tried to return to SW, there were almost always some new cards that would refer to old cards that other people knew instantly but to me it was all unfamiliar and the old cards were very complicated in the first place, making the new card that can generate it even more complex.
It same with yugioh but once you get use to them it get fun depends how much effort you want to put
Yeah, I know what you mean but I actually kinda liked this play. Usually those older cards were cards that had previously been playable but were pushed out of the meta bc they were too expensive (e.g. Heavenly Aegis). The newer cards basically just created a more modern way to play those old cards if you still rly liked them, which I think was cool
The one thing I always took from Shadowverse was Wonderland Dreams - make sure each deck feels distinct from each other at the top level. Machina Blood sort of touched on this, but during Wonderland, every deck focused on an earlygame neutral rushdown, peaking on the turn 4 evolution of Alice or Actress Feria to give all your neutral allies too much board advantage to crack. Ever since then, it seems like class identity has been more important, and equalizers like world or ramiel are just singular cards rather than complete packages to give more deckbuilding agency
That expansion was so hot garbage it made me quit the game.
I also quit the game over Alice Neutral meta. It ruined the game and I never felt like giving it another shot, save for the switch single player game.
One thing I really liked back when I played the game was the way its "arena" mode (I don't remember what it was actually called) was structured, with you having to choose between pairs of cards rather than selecting individual cards for your deck. It made for interesting decision making during the draft phase and forced you to try to make less optimal cards work because you had to pick them alongside something you really wanted. Also, the "make cards always useful" bit was a huge plus, a lesson that took Hearthstone way too long to figure out and they still under-utilize it.
For me what makes shadowverse "good" is the linear playstyle, most interaction to your opponent can only be actively done during your turn, or passively during their turn. Sure for those that comes from yu gi oh the lack of interaction or response against your opponent might seems boring, but for casual or first timer it makes it easy to enter into shadowverse since there is little to none card interaction that you need to remember except your own.
it also smoothly avoids the potential problem you'd have in an online turn-based pvp game where you're stuck waiting for the opponent to react to your move for half a minute when they're just afk.
This is a good video about my main game. I hope in WB they make ways to interact with the opponent during their turn. Like instants and quick spells. As SV progressed the board didn't matter and it was all about accelerating your gameplan and at times it feels that you can see what is happening and have no way to stop it. That it just becomes a race to T7 and pop off.
Cygames did say that taking actions during your opponent's turn actually takes more game time per match which is not ideal since their target audience are mobile users and the less time per match the better. That's why instead of react/counter spells, they added cards that activate abilities during your opponent's turn automatically like a trap card but they can see it so it's more like a puzzle.
@@GreedC Thanks, I didn't know about that. I understand where they are coming from with that design choice. I do hope there are more cards like Erika's token amulet that have an effect oh the enemies turn
Now if only they didnt delay WB for a whole year...
@@GreedC So you're saying that the game will never be good? That's unfortunate.
Great video. I'm currently playing the physical version shadowverse evolve and you can see a lot of these lessons implemented into that version of the game.
Never played shadowverse but this video was interesting, Hearthstone has a similar issue with going first having advantage but it wasnt as polarizing
Glad to hear it was interesting coming from someone that did not play SV!
True, and the Coin of Hearthstone inherently favored some classes like Rogue or Mage when they went second, they could have went for a solution that was equivalent for all classes
I was a master/gm player back in the first few years of the game releasing. Super fun game, but eventually realized that I would have a terrible time if I continued to grind it out.
There wasn't much depth and interaction with the opponent as most strategies were very linear, and control would always be underpowered due to match length being a major factor in the game's strength in reaching its target audience.
Went back to Magic the Gathering and soon picked up Legends of Runeterra lol.
I still very much appreciate it though. Evolution is an extremely unique mechanic, the "gacha"/pack reward structure was fair and many of the card designs were very inventive. Not to mention, its art was pretty decent in a time when the only other major digital ccg on the market was the extremely ugly and cartoony Hearthstone.
As for the video's conclusions, I mostly agree. Except for "make cards always useful". Sometimes making "brick" cards actually serves an important purpose in putting a check on the power of card draw, making sure that decks don't get too consistent, or limiting player options in formats where there are too many flexible cards. However I think this is mostly a good idea for Shadowverse, since it's a game where you accumulate resources at a set rate without having to take any action or investment. For other games, having more inflexible cards might present good deckbuilding challenges that you want.
Cool video! It was neat to get filled in a little bit on how Shadowverse developed since I quit and reminisce on what I enjoyed about it.
I strongly agree that match duration is a big factor in CCG games. I remember playing from 4PM and when I looked again at the clock it's already 4AM.
Also wishing that all classes are usable, maybe Rune can counter this, and Blood can counter that, etc etc.
Most expansions I played it usually revolves around 3 classes or 4 at most.
In my opinion, metagames where every class was viable usually meant every deck had a turn 7 highroll that no deck could beat, so it didn't lead to interesting games compared to meta with more focused decks (like the Heros of Shadowverse meta a month ago)
So I didn't put it in the video, as I don't consider diversity is something Cygames found a good solution for
That is not really match duration but gametime duration.
No game actually lasts 12 hrs.
Sv player here, played from fortune hand till now. For some class on some expansion the class behave like that. Haven generally being a heal class usually counter Blood burns deck. Forest being a combo oriented become otk class that counter control draining tactic. Shadow and sword being board vomit class that usually fast enough countering midrange-combo deck
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana If the matchtime is shorter my gameplay time would be shorter too, right
@@raharii12345 Would be nice if rune is the jack of all trades
I think the lesson on designing incomplete archetypes is a double-edged sword. Designing too many cards for an archetype can lead to the problem where the deck builds itself, but you also need a critical mass of good cards in order for the strategy to work, and if you print too few cards then the strategy might as well not exist. A good example I have is the serpent package released in Starforged Legends for Bloodcraft, which didn't fit any meta strategy but sort of fit into my favorite Bloodcraft strategy, built around Soul Dominator. No one ran the strategy because it didn't have a wincon and it didn't really fit any Bloodcraft deck at the time.
My favorite lesson from Shadowverse has to do with class design. Classes in a card game are usually either built with an aesthetic first with mechanics built onto them or are built with mechanics first and then provide an aesthetic to match. Shadowverse is one of the few class-based card games built with a mechanical foundation, and it uses its core game mechanics as a focus for each of the classes:
- Forestcraft is built on the hand, having Fairy generators to shove a bunch of garbage into your hand that can then be used as fuel on effects that either want you to play a bunch of cards and/or want you to have a large hand size
- Swordcraft is built around followers with its tribal synergies, token synergies, and all sorts of effects that either required followers in play, only affected your followers, and/or were followers that had other purposes in your deck
- Runecraft was built around spells, as it had spellcraft effects and all sorts of other effects that triggered when you played spells
- Dragoncraft was built around play points, as it had ramp, overflow effects so your cheap cards were rewarded for getting to large play point values, and discard effects that targeted your cheap cards.
- Shadowcraft was built around the discard pile/graveyard with its shadow generation, necromancy effects, sacrifice effects, reanimate effects, and a larger abundance of last words effects than any other class had
- Bloodcraft was built around your health pool with its self-damage effects, vengeance effects to take advantage of the health loss, and healing to take advantage of the health loss without dying
- Havencraft was built around amulets with its countdown amulets alongside a plethora of cards that counted down those amulets to activate their effects sooner. This happens to be the best representation of religion and prayer I've ever seen in a game.
- Portalcraft was built around the deck with its resonance effects intended to reward keeping your deck at a certain parity, alongside artifacts that are of both an above-average power level and affect the parity of your deck
Taking one core game mechanic and expanding upon it with specific effects that fit each class is a fantastic way to design classes in a card game, even if not all of those ideas pan out in constructed (in the time I played Swordcraft frequently devolved the game into goodstuff midrange while most meta-relevant spell-based strategies in Runecraft were extremely non-interactive unless they were playing Daria and didn't highroll).
The other lesson I learned the hard way with Shadowverse is how important having mid-rarity finishers is. When I started in Rise of Bahamut, I couldn't afford to purchase a whole lot of cards, but what kept me playing constructed was gold-rarity finishers like Deathly Tyrant, Conjuring Force, and Soul Dominator that were incredibly fun to play but at the low ranks only required low-rarity cards to fill out the deck. Over time, Cygames started to print fewer gold-rarity win conditions and pushed all their wincons at the top rarities, and that meant I had far fewer ways I could build a half-decent deck in rotation, even if I never really played rank. I ended up quitting when my favorite wincon (Soul Dominator) rotated out of standard play and found another CCG to hold my time (Eternal), as there weren't a whole lot to keep me interested in Shadowverse at the time.
@@aruretheincomprehensible9847 Good point, there are a lot of uncomplete archetypes that never took off because the core had a problem cygames never solved, maybe they deserve a future video
In an interview, the game producer did confirm they first make the art, the theme of an expansion, and then the card effects. I think the designers made a great job making the two coherent.
Runecraft was the only class they consistantly printed low rarity finishers for yeah, but I understand the decision with how f2p friendly the game was
Second Dinner of Marvel Snap and Cygames solved a the same problem in different way.
Marvel snap was made around being not more then 6 to 7 turns because the game would just end after the 6th turn.
Shadowverse made a regular card game but made a powerful cards that will end the game on turn 7.
I subcribed !! Love the video !!
I came from a Yugioh background, so archetype decks building themselves was something I personally had no issues with and something I was already used to. Definitely felt that the most during Wonderland Dreams with the very overtuned Neutral packages (Which mirror my experience of powerful engine packages throughout Yugioh's history).
Although I would argue archetype decks just building themselves revolves entirely on how they were designed. Machina Blood was the due to the the win conditions and power cards relied entirely on other Machina cards being alongside it to be any good or even playable. Compared that to say Machina Dragon, which was designed closer to what you were saying was good with how Loot Sword was.
Thanks for the lessons!
Firstly, I really appreciate this video. I played Shadowverse a ton in the late 2010's up through about 2022, and while I haven't returned fully I am really excited for Worlds Beyond. This vid was a really cool look at the design and was oddly nostalgic for me; seeing Frontline Cavalier mentioned and remembering "Yeah this was an insanely good value for second player way back" was really fun haha.
One other cool bit of design Cygames did was introducing really cheap neutral followers to deal with certain massive threats in the current meta. I don't know how often they did this, I only specifically noticed it a few times, but my go-to example is Glistering Angel released the same set as Paracelise. Disco Blood was incredibly strong, but if you timed the G.Angel drop correctly you could completely shut them out, and that was pretty much the basis for a Ward Haven control deck I ran at the time in Master. I never looked at the meta broadly before so idrk how common of an answer this was, and Disco Blood was still super strong that set, but it was cool
Shadowverse Champions Battle was really special in how it took a retro format, but added cards and also made balance changes to the original card pool, leading to a revamped retro format of sorts. All the changes were also really good, so they seem to really know what they're doing.
came across this channel by recommendations, probably due to all the yu gi oh videos. subbed, liked, and going to check out the game just from this video honestly because you make it sound interesting
Haven't played in forever, but I really liked the video
That was a really good video! I play tons of TCGs, and I've tried Shadowverse twice before, never really getting into it tbh. But I always loved the evolving mechanic. Now, the tips about TCG design were really good, always good to know what and where to look.
The infinite thing reminds me of The Eternal Card Game (Great game BTW) and its "free card limit". Basically once you've played 50 cards for free the game goes "Aight, you're done buddy, let opp play too" and you have to take a different game action.
This is the first time I saw this game, but thank you. I'll be checking it out.
I played it reasonably early on. I remember some kind of elf combo deck and some kind of time warp combo deck being pretty fun. I haven't played it in a long time, but I can't really remember why I stopped aside from the usual fatigue of keeping up with spending on new cards.
During the first few expansions until Wonderland Dreams, Shadowverse games used to be quick, even for games with many turns. This was because of the low card complexity.
The complexity creep and every deck becoming combo-oriented made games much more drawn out. This change also pushed me to be a PvE player instead of PvP for the duration of the game's lifespan.
Back in the day, I remember Evolution points were the key selling point compared to Hearthstone. This was back when Hearthstone was just curvestone, and tempo was everything, but also before Shadowverse had a REALLY strong identity of "ramp into OTK" style decks like you describe in the first half of the video
"My Shadowverse never ends"
Shadowverse was cool but I hated the whole game ending cards and stuff by turn 7 and ended up quitting. The control bloodcraft decks were my absolute favs, or stalling for big Bloody Mary combos was alot of fun to set up. I also loved the old Daria runecraft decks. "WIth a bang and a boom!" never got old.
8:40 it depends, some games like yugioh master duel and duel links, if the game enters an infinite loop that cant be resolved and wont result in a win, it decides on what the problem card in said infinite loop is and destroys it.
Honestly, I never liked the idea of games ending in turn 7. This led to serious powercreep and legendary cards being super oppresive. I quit shadowverse around Ultimate Colloseum because I was tired of a legendary doing 5 things at once or dealing 10 damage. Not to disrespect the game or anything but I cant remember a time where the meta was in a healthy state
It was interesting, eventhough i never played Shadowverse to begin with
However I played some Build Divide, and what struck me compared to other card games was that every card is useful depending on the stage of the game. In this game your card can also be used as a land like magic, so if you get costy cards early on you can use them as lands/mana, and vice versa. Also some spells have two simple effects you can choose from, depending on the situation
@@neodymus oh Lorcana has the same concept, except only some cards can be used as lands, so you gotta find a balance with non-land cards when you build the deck
@@HishiTCG But the point here is that you never have truly useless cards in your hand, making you desperate when drawing them
One thing I always liked shadowverse for is the chaotic effects of some cards, that would create this gigantic boards. That's why calamity genesis is my favourite card, even tho it's not fast enough.
So, what part of the card design you would like to see Cygames improve on in Worlds Beyond?
No more cost reduction or play point recovery leader effects
@@Toast0nyx No more cost reduction??? I've played a lot of tcg that have that, without it would be boring af.
LIMIT THE FRICKING LEADER EFF BY X TURNS. LEADER EFF THAT LAST FOREVER IS UNFAIR!!!
Stop making Quest decks that are effectively “I can complete my quest as soon as turn 4 and then every cards in my deck have storm or deal face damage”
Also, put more emphasis on the evolve mechanic that’s not just geared towards the “spamming evolve” playstyle (like those cards that say “if you evolved X times this match, gain…”). Makes most cards have evolve effects, those could be minimal upsides, it’s okay, just make more of those. This will give players more options when it comes to evolve turn, and doesn’t feel that bad when they don’t have “the follower that was intended to be used on evolve turn” in their hand.
From art perspective for me when the set design is fun and strong is when the theme is something that break away from "just generic fantasy" be something like wood or metal set , isekai tournament arc set , spooky land set , japan youkai hotel set , cowboy spell slinging with train timeloop town set. Etc for even if the art style differ the strong idea keep it coherent . When they go for generic theme and art style is super differ no matter how good art look it sink in the sea of sameness .
The two things I walked away from Shadowverse with:
- I'm overwhelmed with too many cards (100's of packs just for logging in, making it near impossible to build a deck on my own).
- If I don't play anything, I lose on turn 4 to 5. If I play to the best of my ability, I lose on turn 5 to 6. Maybe this is just the previous point, but it made me feel like my opponent's plays don't depend on what I do at all, especially when they seem to have the same cards in the same order, every time I play against a specific faction. They can build a board, still have 7 cards in hand, and wipe away anything I put down, every single turn of every game. Even if I wipe their board, they have it back in full swing, next turn.
unfortunately, the thing that turned me down was the lengh of the games, i hated the fact that games were dictated by turn 7-8 tops because i usualy tend to play with control decks, meaning if i had poor draws or were heavly rushed i would prob lose a game with little room to recover. moreover, shadowverse has little to no interaction whatsoever during your opponent's turn, meaning if they have a strong storm-like or burn deck, there is little to nothing you cant do sometimes.
Not only were these tips actually helpful and educational, the video itself was very concise and well-paced. Your voice was clear, and so were your examples. I cannot give enough praise to such a well-made video.
Ironically, even Tanaka-san has time to watch and learn from this video. Maybe even start designing his own card game lol
I didn't played at that tie, but heard that specifically during Darkness Evolved, going second was better since the expansion focused a lot on evo related effects. But that was definitely an outlier.
I like the design of cards like Metera, but probably the "more evo points" clause is a more elegant solution.
Unless it's Ramp. Ramiel and similar cards felt pretty bad because they often made matchups entirely reliant on this specific unsearchable card at the first evo turn. Some Mirrors felt even more miserable to play like Bayleon Loop.
I also think the card complexity could be a topic.
Early on cards usually only did a specific thing and were more expensive depending on the effect.
Hard Removals and board clears were much more expensive. Heals were limited. Storm and burn weren't attached to cards that also did any of the above, at least on their own.
More recently, a good card needs at least 3-4 effects to be a good reward for a certain strategy. And most feel kinda the same, as they rely on doing x a number of times.
Wrath being the worst offender. Ever since Ultimate Colosseum, the deck didn't really changed much as new expansions came around.
Usually cheap followers and spells that deals damage to you, that later on might stop doing that for a wrath payoff, usually heal, burn or storm.
Basically only the numbers got changed, or they tried some new gimmick with the deck like Evolve, Bats or a Trait. But at it's core, the deck always felt the same imo.
Probably one of the reasons Blood got merged with Shadow, as they couldn't figure out what the fuck they should do with Blood.
Maybe the control aspect and expected time for matches also influenced that, as this identity was also discarded.
These are great lessons for sure. I didn't quite realise Shadowverse took so many measures to keep the game relatively healthy.
I learned that playing spellboost unlimited is fun regardless of how brain dead it is.
SV wrote them self into a corner and feeled the need to reset every thing with a new game.
You can actuay see, how pretty much every top deck in every class is a combo deck or pseudo combo-deck.
Also I hate bias in the dev team. Those guys freeking love artifact portal and complitely hate puppet portal. They reprinted Orchid leader 3 times, b/c people love the character but puppets permanentyl stuck in a tier 2 slot.
Puppet had its time in the sun during Godwyrm/Dragonblade after Orchis was released.
More like we figured two things.
1) permanent unstoppable powercreep is bad.
2) nerfing low rarity card for no real reason is bad.
Dropped this shit, when they nerfed bronze stealth frog.
This is such a solid video!
Shadowverse is my favourite ccg tbh also meme decks are so fun
gameplay was passable
ok enough for me to play for years nonstop lol
the story is what really kept me invested in the game
Great vid, can really learn a lot about designing tcgs. Personally I wish Cygames could use more keywords to lower the word count reading text effect becuz I hate yugioh text.
😂 we ygo players hate the text too, but we understand its there for a reason
A few years earlier, one expansion out of two would introduce a new keyword... I feel they did a pretty good job at that, but since most legendaries have a unique effect, it's hard to make keywords for them
The main thing they could have done it for is the whole "give your leader the following effect, it triggers X times"
Duel Masters Play's version of this when :D
I think consider like cheat card like gremory back in eternal awakening, it is really the most terrible balancing they ever take IMO. The card power too good and makes the entire mini is a shadowcraft festive ( as I am shadowcraft enjoyer for sure I'm hitting gm, lol ).
Because, the effect is too cheap. It has same overpower happen in amulet haven where jatelant and angel sniper is too much overwhelming, if they did adjust some grem effect like make it recover less play point it will be so much better happy ending.
Oh yes, the new minthe did pretty good job fixing that by removing the bonus pp. Good content my g, hishiro!
Honestly, quick games are the thing that made me quit Shadowverse, having a quick game end it 7 turns is ok, but there were plenty of games that where over in turn 2 or 3, and going into higher turns and having both players work for the win is really fun
MY DUDE, YOUR CONTENT IS UNDERRATED, I can feel the experience and the time it took for you to get these research. Love this video, I feel like you could go big with a few better thumbnails and focus on demographics. Are you interested in the upcoming Hololive TCG? Who knows you might be able to ride the wave of that game when it hits.
@@ragenorthlu9243 thank you so much for the warm words^^
I have a friend buying trial decks, I'm only into a few members of hololive but i'll give it a try and see
Started this game from Darkness Evolved until I stopped playing around whenever Blazing lion was new. The mechanics that utilized being in digital space are cool but later felt terrible.
- Leader efffects and “do this thing X times this game” effect was cool at first but turned the game into a quest for your win-con.
- Tokens with powerful abilities are nice but make cards became more tiring to read. Wish they reused the same tokens more like Manaria or Machinas did.
As always i'm amazed by your work. Very good video
Note that i am a casual player that doesn't spend money on the game, so my ability to make viable decks is limited.
The biggest issue with the card design that i notice is the amount of cards that can be summoned from the deck at no cost(i know they have to meet a condition). As someone who doesn't take the time to know decks, it makes games feel unfair. Evolution point cheating or recovery also seems a little too common.
From the perspective of a free to play player, the disparity between decks with URs and ones without them is really obvious. With a rotation system, taking a break from the game results in a lot of your cards just becoming worthless. I know there is unlimited but that format seems so broken that its not fun. So it makes investing resources into crucial URs reel like a waste.
I have been playing yuguoh off and on since that game came out in the early 00s, so when i say this i hope it means something. I find shadowverse to be really difficult to get into. Its a good game but it feels really difficult to pull decent cards for the class that you want. It also feels difficult to pivot to other kinds of decks to keep things varied. To give an example, i really wanted to play a certain witch deck. I was playing consistently for multiple months, saving up crafting material and gold for packs. Life happened and i wasnt really able to play for a few months, and when i finally went back to the game and some stuff i had grinded for got rotated out. The fact that i can play yugioh master duel and basically can play any deck i want without a ton of grinding tells me that shadowverse should ease up a little bit. Given how bad the pull rates are, you really should get packs more easily.
This video is pretty good. Your presentation is very nice and while these concepts aren't anything revolutionary, you apply them to Shadowverse well. If I had to criticize just one thing, it would be that swinging effect, like the one at 7:11. It seems fancy, but doesn't really add anything and can make stuff hard to look at, at least for me.
@@Apocralyph will take note, I'll look for another way to make things dynamic in the future
Thanks for the feedback
I stopped playing back when Portalcaft was added to the game. I've tried to go back a few times, but just thinking that all my decks are useless now, and I have to re-learn everything again kinda turns me off.
I really enjoyed your video so much that you got a new subscriber! The video was made well with a even better made script. I look forward to watching your other videos!
I kinda hate how badly i can lose real fast sometimes. Some players are way too hardcore.
Things they should do:
• Loads more cards 🎴 which are meant to counter things e.g. set an enemy followers stats to 1/1
• Loads more cards with and early game and late game effect so they do not brick. Too many late game cards lacked an effect like crystallise or enhance.
• Invocation cards always have an ability which allows them to put themselves back in the deck.
• A permanent "Tavern Brawl" mode which rotates unique ways to play the game e.g. dual class
• A permanent non-rotating card pool added to with things like counter cards and tools which do not need constant reinventing (e.g. Forest bounces and a 2 drop with 2 rally)
• The ability to add a few cards to the pool for an event (e.g. Christmas or 10 year anniversary)
• Randomly buffing weak cards into mid. Keeps things fresh and allows new counter cards to be added to target 🎯 new archetypes.
I still think shadow first is a better insult than first verse, but to each his own.
However, if they're not careful, the game could turn into second verse instead.
Shadowverse is the best card game, I played retired played again 3 times or so, 😂
Great breakdown.
As someone who loves the genre and has played most of what’s available on the market, I utterly despise Shadowverse’s design philosophy (turn 7 “I win” cards, board state not mattering, low interaction, prevalence of quest-enabled combo decks, control not allowed to exist in the meta), but I can definitely see why Cygames did things the way they did.
And I guess it worked in JP, so good on Tanaka-san, eh? (May he have more free time in the future to be able to pick up a good card game with actual player interaction one day)
This is an actual good video of someone who knows what he's talking about, lmma be honest here I came into this video with very low expectations because of that series called "the 7 deadly sins of tcg design" which is to put it nicely made by someone who doesn't know wth he's talking about and jsut gives overall terrible advise at best, however this video's advise is positively good, well thought and well presented
@@anon2447 thank you very much!
Will check that series out of curiosity 🙂
Early digital card game space was weird, and I think Shadowverse's main limitation was taking the foundation built by Hearthstone and just reproducing it uncritically. Hearthstone is pretty jank at the best of times, and Shadowverse didn't remove any of that jank, just built on top of it.
tanaka san is not a guy with the last name "san"
Waiting for SVWB
No trap cards is heaven
They gave up balancing vengeance dunno if I gonna play SV2 I dont like rotation
As a Master Duel player, seeing as how much text Shadowverse cards have, even with keywords already being used, is a dreadful things
I've been playing Master Duel recently and the fact the currently relevant effect is shown clearly really helps when reading cards
Maybe Shadowverse could learn from that
I expected to see your take on fixing the more degenerate, broken designs and mechanics in Shadowverse, format or class warping cards, etc. Maybe next time? Great video btw
@@supernova8 adding that to the idea list ;)
Thank you!
@@HishiTCG no problem!
I had a love hate relansoship with game. I hope world betones bê better
Forcing fast game play made shadowverse insanely boring.
I liked the game at first but it got worse over time and wonderland dreams was the last straw.
It was some of the most unfun shit I ever had in a card game.
Im really glad I quit on the alice expansion because of bullshit powercreep and censorship
Is this another P2W card game?
I'm looking for one that isn't.....
If I had to criticise something from Shadowverse, it would be:
- Lack of in-game currency
- Huge cost difference between crafting gold and legendary cards
Everything else is fine, I'm only playing PvE because I prefer building my own decks and playtesting them before trying PvP, but the lack of in-game currency means that I'm pretty much stuck waiting to obtain enough resources to build the deck.
Yup, this is the problem that made me bounce from the game.
I was wandering to start playing this game and the first thing hear " control decks can't exist". OK, Bye bye!
Well to be honest right now they are rotating with old formats every month, there are some where there were some Control options
It just became less and less common with time as the design decision became to help all classes end a game fast with a combo
The paper version, Shadowverse Evolve, also has a lower powercreep and viable control decks
You will love Marvel Snap