I do think the biggest "elephant in the room" is the TPC telling people not to trade for their Pokemon. Trading is one of if not THE most quintessential aspects of Pokemon. If having genned/hacked Pokemon is such a huge issue for them, then get them off the GTS and make it so people don't have to worry about who they are trading Pokemon with. I think that would go a long way in cooling the rhetoric around genning.
This ^. I don't touch competitive pokemon, but I enjoy watching people play it. And the fact that TPC has a LITERAL global trade system IN THEIR GAME, and then they go "Yeah don't trade for your pokemon" is hilarious to me. 😂😂😂 Although in all honesty I think people should be allowed to gen pokemon as long as they're legal imo 🤷♀ All it does is save time. Or give players freaken IV-changing items... Pay-walling off several staple pokemon in entirely different GAMES is so scummy man
@@valeereon9954To that last point, the Pokemon business model has been awful from day one. They just did it early enough that they kind of get grandfathered in and are ignored for discussions of awful business models in gaming.
@valeereon9954 Yeah I pretty much agree that genning (or some in-game equivalent) should be allowed. Because like it's mentioned in the video, it's not just about one or two hard to get mons for one tournament. It's about constantly needing to build and experiment with new teams for a constantly shifting meta. Even a current gen9 pokemon like flutter mane can have 10s of different builds and move sets. We've seen it go from complete glass cannon, to using substitute, to bulky and back again. Doesn't make sense to ask people to build and rebuild the same pokemon over and over again. It's just laughable that they have to explicitly warn against using a defining feature of the series because of their own rules they can't even enforce in their own game.
@@88porpoiseYup. If any other game franchise implemented Pokemon's business models the whole gaming community would be in a complete uproar. Pokemon was paywalling content behind entire game copy prices since Gen 1. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pokemon franchise but you're right they seem to get such a pass from the community that no other franchise likely would.
"Don't trade for your Pokemon. What do you mean you need a Paradox Pokemon from Scarlet, and you're playing Violet? That's cheating! We will now assasinate your entire family." -TPC, with their very big brains
Maybe it would be better if teams could be submitted before tournaments and players could recieve rentals from TPC with their requested items, stats, moves, and abilities?
it s a super simple idea employed in every esport on the planet, in most games they just give special accounts to high level competitors with everything unlocked (league of legends champs and even skins for example) but Nintendo would never give up the chance to force a competitor to spend a couple hundred bucks in order to compete, they will never do such an easy fix
@@nicolarobatto7469 Why blame this on Nintendo when this is an exclusively Game Freak issue? Nintendo is much more accommodating with their Splatoon, Smash Bros, and Mario Kart tournaments.
tbh picking James off the rip was a good start. I think I take the accusations more seriously from someone who is, like you said, not a complainer, AND someone who's been in the VGC community long enough to have an idea of how things SHOULD be in comparison. This isn't "I had my first World's experience, didn't win, and now it's the worst thing ever". This is a veteran who has opinions based on experience.
He also is used to traveling for playing pokemon. Having someone who you can be confident isn't just conflating jet lag and actual event frustrations influencing his play is big IMO
@@StrengthOfADragon13also placing 3rd in the last two worlds championship means he did perform consistently before and knew what to expect from his level of play too.
@@urilgal while I agree with most stuff that was said, James hasnt been performing well for the SV meta tho. I think he only made top 4 for one of the many regionals he attended.
it's crazy that a decently large portion of the community can't see how negative it is for competitive pokemon how long it takes to build a team. Would CSGO be as popular of a competitive esport if you needed to grind for 100s of hours for the "perfect" ak47? what if for smash bros tourneys you had to breed marios for dozens of hours to get "perfect" stats? The whole thing is so ridiculous, just let people jump in and compete right away if they want too.
@@djbcubed IVs are a really cute idea, making each individual in a species subtly different. It adds spice to RP and casual playthroughs. For competitive, it's a nightmare for no real benefit. Shinyhunters might enjoy fishing for IVs, but it's unhealthy to have it influence competition. Natures are a single chunk effect, alone I could see myself arguing that they're worth adding grinds, but as they're another added variable making the grind even longer, I'm sad. I honestly don't see why IVs aren't just automatically treated as 15 (or otherwise ignored) for all 'mons during a tournament. People do grind for the perfect AK though, it's called Fortnight or buying keys in CSGO etc. It's not really the same thing for multiple reasons, but there are all kinds of reasons to grind that have small effects. IVs don't even matter a lot of the time (or at "good enough" exists), but it might, so there's a perceived need to grind for perfect. Can you imagine losing because you thought an IV of 28 was good enough and you failed a 98.2% chance? That'd feel almost as bad as someone tripping over a cable and getting sent to sudden death.
@@Nekrozumore like the "pokemon breeder" trainer class specifically. Other normal trainer class NPCs would still having EV training but not care about IVs that much.
To be honest I don’t think that would do much. Pkhexing in a full team is infinitely easier and faster then actually training one. It will be always faster unless VGC stars battling on simulator. If Hack checks stay lenient I can almost guarantee you that 80% or more of VGC players will gen their Pokemon.
They should just make it so that bottlecaps give you the choice of IV value instead of only setting it to the max. For all casual players it would make 0 difference, but for those that actually need different IVs it'd be massively beneficial. Also: if they can detect hacked pokemon, they should really give you a way to check if a poke is legit before you trade for it.
fr, they need to add hack checks to at least surprise/wonder trade because getting genned in and advertisment pokemon on there has been an issue since gen 6 and they havent done anything about it
The hack check is don't via an external software, the games themselves (outside of Home) have no way to check. And even Home won't throw errors if they're hacked in properly. The main reason people got caught was because the hacking tool they were using was blanking the Home tracking data instead of putting nothing there, which shouldn't happen.
@@AztecCroc thats because the home tracker isnt something you can just get since its made server side, so if you just inject a pokemon that wasnt at all meant to be in S/V without the use of home (aka Urshifu, and other transfer only pokemon) it would be flagged as hacked, what the people who genned in the mons should have done is genned them in their respective games and then transfer them to S/V through official channels, rip that guy with the hacked cresselia from gen 4 tho thats just unfortunate
@@Pixtrix_That Cress kinda an example though, the main way Pokemon are created is via giving a bot the data for a pokemon and then it just infinitely copies that data, but it was removing the Home tracking data from a Pokemon that should have it being from gen 4 and all.
@@AztecCroc no the home tracker and the origin data are seperate also im like 99% certain the cress thing was a PID/IV mismatch (because IVs and Nature were both tied to PID pre-gen 5) or encounter type/area mismatch that just went undetected, i have no reason to doubt wolfey and the guy who owns the cress saying they transfered it up properly from gen 4, the only time you'll have an issue with home trackers is when you just gen in a pokemon that doesnt natively exist in whichever game you inject it into ex: urshifu in S/V
It really strikes me that the organizers of Worlds were not prepared for the growth in competitive play. They're going to need to invest more money in prep and organization and infrastructure to account for growth instead of watching and trying to plan reactively.
@@endy7630 I thought I heard worlds always runs at a loss and they just view it as marketing. That being said, they could EASILY charge more. Spectator badges are like $20 but seemingly impossible to get. I would've paid 10x that to avoid the lottery.
either that or TPC doesn't prioritize worlds going smoothly as very important to them anymore. perhaps it doesn't have a cost-vs-profit ratio that skews enough in their favor for them to give a shit, and they see competitors as nothing more than sheep they can shepherd to buy their stuff and be quiet about it. i hope im wrong about this, but only time will tell.
Terrible take, pokemkn is fundamentally a single player adventure rpg and grinding is part of the mechanics, hacking in pokemon is like cheating in World of Warcraft.
@@StarsShatteredBeyond World of Warcraft doesn’t have a pro scene. We’re only talking about hacking Pokémon stats within their own limits specifically for tournaments. Like building a Magic the Gathering deck for a tournament. These players don’t play Pokémon for the RPG aspect, they’re playing for the competition. So why not give them the tools they need. And anyone who plays JUST the rpg game can hack all they want anyways without repercussions 🤷♂️
@@kurtru5selcrowe607 I don’t agree with banning people for mons they traded years prior, my problem is the lack of hack checks within the games. The point is GameFreak never built a Showdown for tournaments, ever now getting Pokémon is an essential part of the game and cheating gives you an unfair advantage in time, not everyone is suppose to grab a perfect Pokémon and sometimes you either settle, build a different team or be creative. If you want to play Showdown good, I do too, but if you want to play the actual game, you’ll have to accept that it was never meant to be Showdown.
@@kurtru5selcrowe607 justifying cheating in VGC is like justifying cheating in the TCG, yeah it sucks you need several grand to put up a good deck, but the solution is not to print your own cards.
@@StarsShatteredBeyond no I’m saying that they allow it so it’s not cheating. Not everyone has time to grind and tweak an entire team of Pokémon to exactly what they want. So allow them to hack it, or add an in-game tool so it’s not a hack like you can on Showdown for the big tournaments so they’re more accessible. I really don’t see the negatives of letting people bring the exact Pokémon builds they want to a tournament. As long as the Pokémon stats are within its natural limits of course.
It seems to me that not allowing genning will create a huge nepotism issue where people already heavily networked and with tons of friends can get every pokemon they need while people entering the scene will be stuck with budget options.
Completely agree with this- TPC just needs to come up with some way to let any players have the pokemon they need for competition, otherwise there's an embarrassingly massive accessibility issue for a tournament this big
@nakulbansal6927 The DLC is equivalent to a 3rd version. While it is scummy that 2 versions exist, and then a third version is normally having additional content it is something we have had for years now. I am personally okay with the DLC adding in new mons. That said only mons able to be obtained on the current release should be legal for tournaments.
4.3. Illegally Manipulated Pokémon The use of external devices, such as a mobile app, to modify or create items or Pokémon in a player’s Battle Team is expressly forbidden. Players found to have Pokémon or items that have been tampered with may receive a Disqualification, regardless of whether the Pokémon or items belong to that player or were traded for.
@@snasmusic"they need" They dont have to do anything and wont do it. Their main sells are through casuals "enjoying" the game rhan competitive and its integrity.
Being able to lower IV’s would singlehandedly make competitive team building 100% easier. Everything else has pretty much being solved. Abilities, natures, ev’s is all solved
let's add this tho - EV training was actually MUCH cheaper in Gen 7 and 8 where you could use the boring/grindy manual EV training but in 24 hours you could also FREELY fully EV 10+ mons through Poké Pelago or Poké Jobs. also Tera is grindy as HELL - it should either be much cheaper or have a pokémon remember multiple Tera types after you use 50 shards on it and be able to switch between them, that would be passable.
PS: but yes, not being able to lower IV's and Pokémon Company ridiculously telling VGC players 'don't trade' (absolutely unbelievable!) = two biggest fuck-ups. but let's not say 'Gen 9 made everything easier' - Teras and lack of PokéJobs/PokéPelago made parts of it worse too.
a few issues would still remain tho... needing multiple games and versions for one... Want flutter mane and iron hands? well that's already two games required and then you add all the Sword and shield mons, the arceus mons, it starts adding up fast... Also I don't see the value in forcing people to grind the fuck out of tera raids and shit, just so that they can build and test teams. As Wolfe has said so many times before part of pokemon is that the meta is constantly evolving, so you might have to switch out teams, you might want to adjust your tera typings, stats and so on as the season progresses. It's honestly a shame that third party programs like pokemon showdown basically have better tools for a competitive setting than the official game...
Most likely a false positive too. Imagine all the kinds of edge-cases such a mon has gone through. Many gens, back and forth. Some probably even throughout multiple revisions of the games. Maybe even trade into and back from romhacks or tools to use QoL features there, like iv checkers, or maybe even good grinding spots! And so on.
@@feha92 This exactly. Imagine if the reason there's no "IV lowering" in S/V is because the way they're checking pokemon is based on whether or not a pokemon's stat has been lowered, not raised; or if their device is faulty.
@TaIathar every pokemon has an assigned PID that is calculated at least in part using the pokemons IVs. So any IV modification will potentially lead to an invalid PID, which can be checked.
@@obi-wan3916 I'm talking about things that are change-able in-game such as in S/V you have Silver/Gold Bottlecaps to raise pokemon's IVs. However, outside of S/V there are Bronze Bottlecaps which can lower a Pokemon's IV. If someone lowered an IV, then traded it into their S/V version, this is what I am suggesting would create a false positive. Your suggestion of IVs being connected to PID would create a false positive for literally every single person in the tournament that bottlecapped their pokemon. Even if it's true, there are obviously other factors playing a part to create a possible false positive for the Cresselia.
The issue with Enamorus IVs is that IVs aren't easily visible in PLA (all Pokémon of the same species have the same stats). You have to move it to HOME in order to check its IVs, at which point the game needs to be saved... therefore you need an entirely new save if the IVs aren't the ones you need.
To complete that answer, you can check the starting effort levels of a pokemon in PLA, so the IVs aren't completely random either But while 31 has its own starting EL (making getting one reasonably easy), EL 0 is 0-20IV, so you're still looking at an average of 441 playthroughs to get a 0 attack 0 speed enamorus
Don’t forget in your discussion of this that competitive pokemon exploded during SwSh. There are many people totally new to the competitive scene, or those who re-entered pokemon after leaving, may I remind us all that bank/transporter/poketransfer was locked. For brand new OR returning players who skipped on SwSh entirely or even JUST its DLC, Lando, Torn, and Thundy are also likewise locked, as are heatran and cress for those who also skipped on BDSP- and regardless BDSP status Urshifu is COMPLETELY unobtainable for this crowd.
The only way that could be easier than to either hack the Pokemon or go through the entire game *again* funny enough, would require a hacked Switch too (backing up your save, catching the Enamorus, and trading it to a second Switch with LA played up to being allowed to trade, upload to HOME, and if it wasn't a good one, restore the previous save for the hacked Switch) ... ironic considering it requires hacking of some kind, but it wouldn't be hacking that affected the actual Pokemon, just the time spent to get it... (which like Wolfey said, time should NOT play a factor when competing... but honestly TPC/GF really need to make an easier way to lower IVs, not just have a way to raise them to max)
@@serpentmaster1323 what do you mean locked? yes the eshop is closed but if you have it installed bank and transporter work, and if you have a hacked 3ds you can install them
Some people where disqualified for having 'hacked' mons in their boxes in Home not even on their teams. Additionally another person lost a round because a referee thought him naming his box pkhex even when it didn't have hacked mon in it was a valid reason to stop him from participating in the round.
I've been playing catch up with this silly controversy at Pokemon VGC. What evidence do you have to base those claims of people getting dq'd for having hacked mons in their poke Home? I didn't see any articles on it.
My personal, humble, opinion is that once you get to the post game, there should be an in-game feature where you can just straight up edit IV's, EV's, natures, moves, everything. Make it post game so it doesn't ruin the playability. But the only thing most players do post game are various forms of completionist goals that are community inventions, dex filling, shiny hunting, grinding for competitive, etc. etc. Hardly a master or anything, but I really can't see any down side once the the game is considered finish.
Big agree. There should be in an in game showdown-like teambuilder and battle simulator. That way you can make any mon you want for your competitive team, but could only progress through the story using Pokémon you caught
I would say, even, just make it so you can save a build. You have to have a nature of a Pokémon to set to that nature. You have to have gotten a Power item to set your EVs for that stat. Shiny? Better have seen it. IVs can all be edited if you've Hyper Trained a single one, and you have to have gotten a TM or unlocked it in a move relearner to use. Make it so instead of paying for training items, you pay to unlock the features. That way, they keep the postgame capturing and raid loop to find items to unlock things in the mode, but the grind is once. If I catch a random Charadet, level to 100 by candy, and have unlocked all the TMs it can learn, and then evolve? I get every option on that. It makes it so you can still somewhat easily modify things, yet you have to do at least some grinding, so you have to interact with the mechanics.
They kind-of already have the beginnings of that now in SV. With candies, mints, bottle caps, vitamins, mirror herb, TM machine and berries you can make basically any Pokemon perfectly trained in less than an hour, it just cost's an arm and a leg. If they made all this stuff cheaper/free (and made berries easier to get) then there wouldn't be much of an issue I'd think.
Just as a quick reminder for anyone finding this a bit later on the rules changed from allowing only the Scarlet and Violet dex to the entirety of pokemon HOME mid season. All those accessibility problems are much worse under new rules with a stricter deadline
That was the major issue which in many people's minds justify hacking. The tournament should have been only mons obtainable in normal game play for SV. No events, No home only pokemon. We need some way to lower IVs, reset EVs (we know this is in DLC), and verify integrity of pokemon. That might sound like a lot but it really isn't. Ideally this should be in a single interface. If we must use different items than they should be obtainable in game with a single currency [poke dollars, BP ideally either interchangeably] in said interface as an option. Just put it in post game and make the costs reasonable. That solves the majority of the issues with genning pokemon. The rarity factors (shiny, marks, personality variants) do not need to be or should be touched with this.
@@RFDN0 We do have a way of resetting EVs though, the friendship berries like Pomeg Berry and Tamato Berry, it's not very convenient unless you're checking the auction house every now and then when playing but it exists.
While it's not currently an issue (yet), there have definitely been times in the past where an limited distribution event pokemon was competitively viable. The moment that happens, you're going to run into people who missed out on that event, and are forced to either trade for or generate a copy of the event pokemon with the exclusive move.
I didn't play back then, but I've heard tons about Eruption Heatran, which iirc is one of the more notable VGC mons with an event move. Another one, funny enough, was Wolfe's own Raichu from 2016, which was a Global Link event
TPC isn't really doing events with exclusive moves not named Hold Hands, Celebrate, etc, or moves that literally do nothing in battle. It gives the sense of rarity while also not causing problems with event exclusive moves
iirc chansey with seismic toss and wish is a 2004 event mon. prior to eviolite existing, a lot of those chansey became blissey. also, wasn't ice punch tyranitar a event mon? I think I've seen that it high profile events before. I could be wrong, however
When I was a student, I was quite appalled when I learnt my older friends hack pokemon to play in tournaments, but now that I’m an adult with a full-time job and a kid I can see why It’s in the rules, so you can’t be mad if you’re disqualified, but at the same time competitive is impossible to play without the optimal pokemon. Being gatekeep from your favourite game is sad
Exactly. I feel a lot of people are saying "genned bad because rules" because they actually don't have sympathy for any other person's situation that can keep an otherwise good player out of the competitive scene. While genning is definitely against the rules, condemning people for genning pokemon that have a legal build (obtainable through normal play via tedium) is silly. People who can't do competitive as a full time job have an immediate disadvantage. People that have obligations outside of Pokemon have an immediate disadvantage. People without the money for all of the games have an immediate disadvantage. People who don't have others to help them build a team have a massive disadvantage. The list goes on. Genning allows otherwise good players to actually practice for competition. Transcend finger pointing. Normalize compassion. TPCI/Game Freak need to release a separate game that is a battle simulator.
Awwww boohoo... Did he lose and suddenly he's not as arrogant as he was before? Who cares? He lost because he's bad. Finally he's being exposed for the fraud he is.
@@poweredman Who are you even referring to? This comment just feels unhinged, and you refused to actually respond to any of the argumentation other people put forward and instead jumped on acting like a high school brat.
I like that Wolfe makes the distinction between something being "against the rules" and "cheating". Even if you do feel that genning is somehow cheating, your only argument can't just be "it's against the rules therefore it's cheating". Rules are not always about preventing cheating. For example, you're not allowed to have food in the play area. There's no explicit reason given for this but it is almost certainly to help keep the play area clean. Nothing to do with cheating or one player having an advantage over another.
This is really a showcase on how appearance has superseded functionality at all levels in Pokemon. A tournament system has been lacking from the game for way too long and could easily be added as an adjacent program like Pokemon Home, being able to connect with and affect the games.
@@azeria1 no, because the fact that a game with no real time action can't recover a save state that's basically super light data is way worst. The disconnect is bad but a cord can bring electricity to many stuff. Shouldn't happen at that level but wouldn't be a problem with an half decent game
Plus, who says players can't abuse this? There's huge wins on the line at world's. It isn't going well in your top cut match? Just have a friend pull a cord and suddenly you have another chance (pun intended). After this, I'm sure players would start abusing it if the rules don't change. It's so ridiculous, like Wolfey said sudden death is nothing like a real game, it shouldn't be a thing.
I am never going to speak against hacked mons. Pokemon created this quagmire due to their own poor design for the competitive scene. The point of competitive Pokemon is not "how much time did I spend grinding?", but "did I create and pilot the best team?". If one of the prominent drivers of Pokemon performance is dependent on hundreds of hours of breeding and game resets, then all it does is gatekeep the scene from new talent and prioritizes people with money to remain in the fast lane. There is zero skill component to breeding or game resets for ideal legendaries. "How long did it take you to flip a coin and get 15 heads in a row" should not be the basis of a competitive ruleset. Honestly, TPC should have a competitive online mode that is like Showdown where you can customize a team, and THAT should be the format for official tournaments. Until that time, I'm never going to look down upon "hacked" Pokemon. It's the solution to the problem TPC created for itself due to poor design for its competitive scenes.
The event was a mess, I'm a worlds player for Pokemon Unite and our game only got 2 days with 31(28) teams which made for a lot of upsets and variance. There were 8 groups and basically if u dropped 1 set u could not get top 8 and can only play for top 16. This coupled with the fact that Unite is a fairly rng games at times ( rayquaza steals ) made a lot of top teams projected to have good standings place poorly. There was also equipment issues multiple times where players could not control their character properly or was disconnected from a game turning a win into a loss. The side stage was so small the enemy team can hear your comms which put english speaking teams at a huge disadvantage as the enemy team would know all their call outs as oppsided to the foriegn teams. These are the issues exclusive to unite on top of all the issues Wolfey mentioned about waiting in line and getting passes.
I think "inacessible" is actually the exact right word for this situation. I think this video is great - you really explain why the current methods of obtaining pokemon is so problematic. When you step back and think about it, it's *insane* that "cheating" in pokemon isn't even about getting better or stronger mons than your opponents - it's just about making something already legal easier. There are obviously a ton of issues with how Gamefreak handles the series in general, but one of the biggest things stunting its growth with an adult audience (who will also be the ones spending more money per consumer) is the relative lack of an out-of-game adult community. Having an expanded competitive scene could be huge in this regard - lots of people keeping a community engaged, generating lots of content, and driving people to invest more time, energy, and money in a different way. But the competitive scene remains so inaccessible - even understanding how a pokemon's stats and moves work requires significant time investment to learn mechanics that are never explained in game, not to mention all the issues with obtaining pokemon (especially for a newer player who doesn't have resources or wants to experiment). The barriers to entry are insanely high for what is ultimately for most people a way to relax and have fun. If GF ever wants a truly large and active competitive player base (they should, because money), the entire system needs an overhaul - but that probably would never happen, because the pokemon company doesn't care about their own games or playerbase.
I think part of the problem with "legal" pokemon being easier way to view things is that sure its "legal" but once you check the possibilities of the pokemon having the generated ivs, shiny and all stuff it comes to one in billions sometimes (like some of Wolfs past pokemon in gen V, VI etc) so sure the pokemon is legal but it was impossible to get in reality , so is not just "easier" is straight up easy.
No!! The point is taking the time to raise the perfect pokemon to fit whatever needs you want to enjoy your game. Going to hacked pokemon should land you a disqualification. Gaslighting players who raised their pokemon legitimately to get to the VGC is disgusting. Especially if you know the rules and you break them anyway. You wanna use molded stuff to have fun in your game, that's on you but don't go into competitive thinking your great at the game when you cheated your way to the top. Im sure all those players have the skill and talent to raise these pokemon legitimately, so do so.
@@dusk202 I think it's inaccurate and in bad faith to say that those who hack in their pokemon are "cheating their way to the top." You'd have a point if they were trying to hack in pokemon with stats that are typically impossible to have, but that's not what's being discussed here. As for the "skill and talent [required] to raise these pokemon legitimately," it's really not that at all, especially with all of the tools the modern games give you to help determine your pokemon's IVs, EVs, etc. EV training is really not so much a skill as it is a mechanic to understand. I guess to say it more clearly, the difference between someone who gets eliminated on day 1 of VGC and someone who wins the competition never comes down to how good they are at EV training their pokemon, just what EVs they decided to go for. If you have a set amount of EVs in mind, all it takes is planning. Everything after that is honestly pretty mindless: use this item, KO this pokemon, rinse and repeat till you have the EVs you want. While yes, you do have a point that bringing in pokemon through hacking when it's been told that's illegal is wrong, I don't think that's the argument being made here. The argument is whether or not it should be illegal in the first place, and I think as long as the pokemon you hack in don't give you an inherent advantage, I don't think it should be illegal. In fact, it may be healthier for the game to adopt hacked pokemon. The main barrier to entry for a lot of people when it comes to competitive VGC is the time commitment. It's not just the time it takes to team build or compete, but also the many hours it takes to raise the pokemon you need the legitimate way. By allowing hacked mons with legal stats, abilities, and movepools, there's increased competition and more chances of new faces reaching the highest level of play instead of it only being the same few dominant players who've made pokemon their careers. In fact, more players means more competition, which means it takes even more skill to make it to the top. TLDR, hacked pokemon are illegal right now and usage of them should be penalized, but I think that rule should be changed so that the competitive scene becomes more accessible, thereby increasing the competition and therefore the skill ceiling.
@@BatVader-ne6kf but they do hack pokemon that are otherwise most impossible for most of the normal players. Take for example the encore dream ball raichu with perfects IVs from wolfey or their moltres with 0 Iv in attack. Or when players gen a pokemon with a move from an event distribution that couldnt have perfects IVs with perfects/specifics IVs that is not available for all the other normal players. Normals players are stuck with the version of the event they got so thats the tradeoff. Sadly genned/hacked pokemon on competitive make this unfair for the normal players as they have to invest the time for raising a perfect pokemon, and that IS part of playing pokemon (catching and raising pokemon to make them battle) Hackers skip the first part . Competitive is so much more accesible now compare a few gens back where you had to spent weeks building a team, so hacking nowdays is so much more evidence of being lazy, hackers just dont want to play the game at all, this is not showdown or a fightning game (and even in some fightning games you gotta play to unlock all the characters).
@BatVader-ne6kf I will say you wrote quite the explanation and I respect that. What you miss and I see Wolfy kinda dancing around it is that the rules were laid out cut and clear, it IS NOT and argument of whether it should be allowed because they have made that decision and have made it clear its a no go and there are consequences to breaking those terms. Manipulation of the game code of any kind is considered hacking, therefore cheating until GF says otherwise. It doesn't matter if you didn't do it to get certain stats or if you did, or if you did it to get a specific pokemon with certain attributes that you were looking for, you manipulated the game code without the consent of the game developer, therefore in their eyes and their rules, your a cheater. Idk why it is so hard for people to comprehend basic user terms and agreements. Your explanation was very well put together and you did give some clarification and perspective on raising pokemon, mechanics, and the why to people doing what they did, but it is still in the realm of wrong and people trying to justify cheating at VGC are gaslighting. I look forward to see how GF handles 2024 but I see them doubling down on their rules because all the folks that will try to boycott the VGCs and poke tubers who disagree with the rules how GF goes about it is NOT a loss to GF at all!! When people complain you have to spend money to get certain pokemon in the game, yea that isn't on accident, GF wants that money, you either pay it to stay competitive or you don't and lose out. If I was GF, and luckily I'm not, I'd be coming for my bread because this makes them lose out on money when people can just "gen" their desired poke. GF is a business and the Poke company is a multi billion dollar company, they WILL give a damn when things can potentially hurt revenue. Maybe they should go to rented teams at VGC if they can't trust players to play as intended.
one common counterpoint from the people getting angry about genning is "It's not that expensive to get mons from Home! JuSt TRaDe FoR ThEm IF YoU CAn"T AfFoRD ArCeUs Or SW/SH" Yeah, you know what you're risking when you trade with strangers on the internet? You can be busted for "hacking" just as easily for being traded pokemon you thought were legit as someone who went and got a team made up a genning discord. Another Argument is "UsE DiFFeRenT PoKeMon! TrY NeW ThiNgs!" that's not how competitive play works, you can't really use weak pokemon if you can't formulate a plan for the meta threats. Yes it's possible to find underrated mons that preform well, but it's not possible for everyone, Nevermind the time underrated Pokemon do suprise tournament wins are very meta-dependant and power-level dependant format reads. People take the wrong message from the Pachirisu thing and didn't realise it doesn't just mean "you can win with weak off the wall teams" it means "sometimes lower powered pokemon come up in the highest levels of play based on format reads"
I saw it at first as a big achievement but nowadays i see it more like how specific item he needed that few mons fit and he chose the electric squirrel
The real problem is that TPC wants to have its cake and eat it too when it comes to how people play Pokemon. On one hand, they want to shape a specific experience around forging a team from nothing and growing attached to them, etc until the player grows into some sort of understanding where they can become regional champion. (this is how literally every single mainline entry in the series since the mid-1990s is structured) On the other hand, they (supposedly) want people to take their Esport-Tournament scene seriously and attract new players into it, just like any other sport. But these goals are diametrically opposed to each other, and for pure arbitrary reasons that TPC has complete control over. Straight up: There is absolutely no reason (not by logic or ethics) why it should take literal weeks (often MONTHS if one is not using RNG manipulation or other such "hacks") to create a SINGLE (read: LITERALLY ONE) tournament-viable Pokemon team anymore. When anyone can hop onto Pokemon Showdown, build a competitive team in and start competing all within 10 MINUTES of starting, what the Hell is stopping THE OWNERS OF THE LARGEST AND MOST PROFITABLE FRANCHISE ON PLANET EARTH from offering something that's just as good or better in their own products? Nothing. Nothing but their own backwards internally competing mismatched priorities and arrogance. It's not even about profit here either. The 'pay to win' aspect of TPC's competitive Pokemon scene impacts less than 5% of their total revenue, because the overwhelming majority of people buying their games are casuals who have absolutely nothing at all to do with the competitive Pokemon. (again, Pokemon is literally THE most child-friendly and profitable franchise in the world and has been for over 20 years) Whatever extra cash they're wringing out of the diehard tournament players by forcing them to buy multiple games and their DLC for transferring into the modern metagame is going to be utterly insignificant already, and only hampering the uptake of new players into that scene. My solution is far from being original but here it is all the same: First, build basic access to the competitive Pokemon scene into the core games. Within every copy of the game, include access to the following: 1) An in-house version of something like Pokemon Showdown that is COMPLETELY separate from all PVE/Single player game content. 2) An ID-based system that tracks competitive players' online performance and IRL-event progress, that they use whenever they engage in either. Make these mandatory for national-level competitions (and a Passport ID for world competitive level events). Note: Providing real-world ID is not necessary unless the player enters the real world competitive event scene. When someone signs up for competitive events, they link their real-world ID stuff to their competitive ID. (this is done for basically every other international competition already, including Magic the Gathering) Finally, at all official events (city, national or world tournaments) TPC runs the games on their own in-house hardware (Switches, Game Boys, whatever, etc). Now that all the essential competitive player data is kept on TPC's end, all players have to do at events is show up, provide their requisite IDs to prove who they are, walk in and either download a copy of their team from TPC's current Pokemon online system, or make one within the 'Pokemon Showdown' system and lock it in as their submitted team for that tournament. Reception at events is now sped up significantly while the security and the integrity of the event is massively improved on account of not having to check literally hundreds of contestants for modified consoles, hacked games, etc. Of course, I'm just a lowly peasant far removed from the business world and its decisions, so what the hell do I know?
Just for a clarifying point on the Enamorus example: every time you leave and re-enter the Crimson Mirelands it resets the "IVs" (Effort Level) and nature. Doesn't hurt your point too much, because as someone who hunted a good one it took a very, VERY long time
Also doesn’t help that an EL of 0 can be the equivalent to an IV of 0-20 Like there’s absolutely no way to fully tell in the game you’d have to transfer up to really check
@browserjunior4707 absolutely right! I truthfully did not go for "pure 0" IV because of how hellish that would be. I went for 0 Effort Level and got low enough!
EDIT: I was completely wrong here, as I forgot how PLA changed things. My bad. Super minor nitpick here. IVs are Individual Values, not Effort Level. I think you meant Effort Values, which are what EVs are, and a fresh catch would not have any EVs. Feel free to ignore me.
@@JDP5127 From what I've heard, PLA uses a different stat system than the mainline series does, essentially consolidating the functions of IVs and EVs into Effort Levels, with a pokemon's IVs determining their initial effort level, which are then raised with items.
Every legal pokemon in the format should be ALWAYS catchable in the game ur competing. It makes no sense that 90% of the meta is not available in scarlet and violet. If usaluna, urshifu, cresselia, ecc. would be catchable and resettable in the game (just like during ORAS where u could catch every single legendary legal in the restricted format) there wouldnt be the frustration to get them that leads to hacking
Sounds like Pokemon needs to set up formats. One for unrestricted entry and one where the Pokemon you can play with are only catchable in the game you're competing on.
You can see what Wolfey means because That bad faith actor has made glitching guides which he said is cheating, he has defended Aimbots, which is cheating & he has promoted instacheck. A third party software which is against the rules. If any thing I think that bad faith actor is a complete cheater/liar.
I tried making a competitive team in sun/moon season 1which was a hassle but fine. Then season 2 dropped and the tapus became legal and I couldn't put in the time to get the right iv's on them. I never really tried again because I don't want to put in that insane time to get the perfect mons for the metagame each time. I wish there was a feature like pokemon rentals for competitions. Where you could use the mons exactly like you want in a competition but cannot use them outside of that environment. It would definitely get me back into competitive play
There are rumors that next dlc might come with a feature like this. I doubt that these are anything more than fan theories but if they actually do it - that would be gamechanger for competitive pokemon.
Honestly I just play with whatever I get. In fighting games I don't only play meta characters and only do optimal combos as well. Just try to have fun along the way, not being 100% optimal shouldn't be an issue unless you want to win tourneys. However, the technical state of competitive pokemon is abyssmal atm and turned me away from the series with the past 2 games.
I personally don't mind breeding a pokemon but getting stats on legendary pokemon is just silly. Even if you do get one that's good for your purpose, having to replay the entire game to hunt one with a different IV spread is just stupid.
It only makes sense that this year has had the most hacked Pokémon, due to it being harder then ever to make a competetive team, because of the hurdles you have to go through to change a Pokémons Tera-Type and getting Meta-Pokémon like Urshifu, Creselia, or something of the sort.
@iancastro1327 if you're making a competitive video game. Everything for your players should be AT THE MINIMUM accessible to all players within the game. They are not. End of discussion. This then isolates THE majority of the player base. It becomes a situation where jt isn't fair for the majority of players unless they're willing to shill out more money for prior games and then have an immense amount of time to then work on a team as that isn't even quick. People will stopp genning pokemon when genning pokemon isnt; 1 cost efficient, 2 saves multiple days/ weeks worth of grinding, 3 is less rewarding than making the team yourself. Until there is a situation in which at least 2 of those are met, genned pokemon will plague their competitive series. However nintendo won't comply to any of those because it 1, makes them less money, 2, they literally have no reason to because they don't have to build their own pokemon teams. The best way to sort this out is bby making their own unique stadium game that can be future proofed.
They need to just make PvP full custom in the game series. You setup a team with all the perfect stats and items and etc, then they use that for PvP. They don't get the pokemon in their game, but they can use whatever team they want for matches. PvE grind shouldn't be mandatory for PvP just like how PvP grind shouldn't be required to PvE.
Rental teams were supposed to be a solution to this, and when rentals were added as a feature, I expected that would be how things would work going forward. Not utilizing one of the best QoL features ever introduced to the series at the highest level of competitive play doesn't make any sense to me.
you have to grind in any RPG, either for pvp or pve, it actually takes two different sets for each type of gameplay usually, so why would pokemon be different?
@@Nobody-su9kmNot pokemon, they are talking about competetive pokemon tournaments. It's an entirely different game. It is just like how pokemon stadium gave you a roster of lvl 50 mons to choose from - except for any valid e-sport the players should be able to customize everything entirely as they prefer.. Pokemon is a singleplayer game (well, nowadays there is coop) that is like you say a RPG, and only interact with others through link cables or IR ports. Big difference.
it's still the same game, wether you like it or not, saying otherwise is like separating WOW's competitive pvp battles from the grind you need to get to that point, or separating FFXIV late game raids from the grind you have to go through to be able to do them, it's a part of the game, the reward for your time spent and dedication amounts to being able to grind the late game content, aka competitive, and it's not even close to as hard as any of the games i quoted, so stop crying, game is easy as it is.@@feha92
and also, other games don't have differences between same characters, you comparison would be equal to having to exp grind characters in league of legends for example, and then play with it, in that case i bet you as much as you want that they would not give everything for free, also, MOBA's and FPS's are completely different from what pokemon competitive is, on pokemon those stats and whatnot DO MATTER, so giving them for free is giving an advantage to any player who didn't go through the process, on lol however, a Sion will always be a sion.@@feha92
I've seen a lot of suggestions to just make PVP full rental/customizable and I personally think it'd be cool if top-level choices were available based on your dex entries, whereas IV/EV were automatically available for anything you are eligible to use. For example - things like species, gender, regional form, and shiny forms are all unlocked based on your dex. Once you have it registered, you can pick it and customize IV/EV/ability/nature. This gives everybody a reason to complete the new games when they come out and kinda provides something of a lineage connection from the Pokemon you raised to the Pokemon you ultimately battle with (for those of us nerds who like the roleplay of it lmao). It *feels* a little more like something TPC might endorse. But all that work is frontloaded when a new game (or expansion pack) drops. You've gotta put that work in, but only once per generation, and then you can set up whatever team your heart desires just like on Showdown.
I feel like part of the competition is the solo experience that is creating the team yourself, and achieving the stats yourself. its the first step. you;re solo, there is no time limit, but thats part of the competition too. lets be real tho, if you're gonna take time off work, fly to japan, germany, w/e. you clearly had the time to make a team. This is my personal opinion, but earning the mons is part of the experience. should every NASCAR vehicle have the same pit crew and same build? nah, thats part of every competitive experience. comming prepared and bringing what you earned. getting the IV's is RNG, but not really, its inevitable that youll get them.
@@riouxp2787 legit or quit then. Some people actually put in the effort to get it. Since the possibility to get it exists the argument of "it isnt fair" is invalid. Go buy sword and shield, its readily avalible. and best of luck
I'm a firm believer of the concept that competitive gaming is best when it is a test of player skill rather than, to put it one way, "avatar power." If you compete against another player in pokemon, the outcome of the match should be dependent on both players' teambuilding, metagame knowledge/foresight, risk assessment, etc. It shouldn't be dependent on how much time each player was able to spend grinding a singleplayer story mode, or who had better connections that could do the grinding for them, or who had the money for additional games that won't even be played during the tournament.
You people say that but have no problem with things like RNG in the game, like a lucky crit or a game just having so much RNG. Pokemon is at no point about skill.
@@DaShikuXI I mean, it's not. You can be mad about if you want, but every level of the game is riddled with uncompetitive mechanics. You don't have control of what pokemon you find, you don't have control of the stats your pokemon have, you don't have control over the damage you do with each attack, you don't have control over crits, you don't have control over who gets luckily frozen or not and so and fourth. Pokemon actually has some of, if not the worst, RNG of any competitive game I've ever seen.
MLB/NFL/etc should just make roids and performance enhancing drugs legal. who has time for practice, lifting, etc. all that matters is hitting the ball/scoring!!!
@@DaShikuXIcrits ignoring stat drops or ups aren't just a damage variance difference though. the RNG behind crits has heavy impacts like it or not, that's ofc not just one, others RNG are stuff like paralyze or confuse to be perfectly frank
@@DaShikuXI you only prove my point because you don't know what you are talking about. Encounter rates mean that it is theoretically possible that you never find a pokemon. It is possible that someone just doesn't see an Abra for 10 years of playing every day in RBY and even still in SV. You can manipulate RNG, but you can't force it to spit out a number. Breeding is again RNG manipulation, not control, not to mention some mons can't breed, bottlecaps can send stats up they can't send stats down ie if I wanted a 17 speed magmorter but I keep getting 20+ I can't force it to 17, vitamins don't affect IVs I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't control the damage you do unless you are using something like seismic toss. A damage roll is, by definition, not control of the damage you do. The items and abilities do not let you control crit they let you manipulate RNG, which is again not control. Control is being able to decide when you crit or how you earn a crit or whatever. Although I think there are some ways to get 100% critical chance, which in those cases is control. Held items that might save you or might be a total waste because the flamethrower burn just never happened. And again, you don't have control over if you will burn with flamethrower or not There aren't many elements of RNG. The game is riddled with it at every single level of the game. Also, while there is a skill in playing around, probability in and recognizing possible game states based on probability that doesn't make the game a test of skill. Some games are just statistical anomalies that you can't predict, or you would be a fool to try to play around. A game like chess, however, is a game of pure skill and knowledge. There is value to both, but pokemon leans way more on the luck side than something like a card game or even blackjack.
You and Freezai seem to have the same stance I do about the folks DQ'd from worlds via the hack check, "I don't condemn you for your actions, but I don't pity your consequences". I felt like they made big strides to lowering the barrier to get a full team in Scarlet and Violet, but then they made the pokemon home introduction and undid so much of it. I bought PLA but haven't beaten it, and seeing that I would have to beat PLA in order to hypothetically do teambuilding frustrated me. Hearing the story about a trusted player having received a hacked mon I couldn't help but be concerned that there was a glitch in trading that was causing incorrect flags for the hack check.
Oh it's 100% possible their advanced hack check flagged legitimate Pokemon. It's called a "false positive" after all. Fully possible something all the way from older games wasn't accounted for and kaput
@@Zeldrake Not only possible, but I would even argue likely. Wait until you hear someone throw a buzzword like "AI-powered" for such a tool. At that point you know some tech-illiterate higher-up pushed for it and that the system is deeply flawed. Though even before considering that possibility I would expect such a tool to give false positives for mons like that story's.
@@ZeldrakeI mean it was a shiny Cresselia probably hacked however I think if the Pokémon has been used in a tournament before it should be exempt from these checks
For anyone confused why there's no way to check if your mons are legal: it's likely because providing such a mechanism would make it way easier to hack them confidently. It would no longer be a risk to bring hacked mons to competitions, just a matter of continuing to try until you pass the check, and then you can participate comfortably (I'm not saying hacking is bad, just trying to explain the likely rationale behind this decision)
Worlds occurred in Japan. Under Japanese law, possession of modified software or save data is punishable by up to 5 years in prison. It is a cultural difference in how copyrighted material is treated, and is likely the reason that a Japanese company has rules that comport with Japanese Copyright laws.
@@mogalixir The difference being that hacking the actually games, is a different kinda of crime. I do agree that trades/ regualr online play likely needs a stronger hack check as you shouldnt be able to obtain a hacked pokemon under the premise that its logitimate. Then you just ban people who try to trade or use hacked mons. Maybe also just have a 1 time no penalty hack sweep tied to your nintendo id. This would let logitimate player purge all their hacked mons at no risk. Then assuming the checks work they have no risk of ever obtaining a hacked mon. (i guess local trades could fuck them)
@@PkmnMstr10 Yeah, not spending hundreds of hours grinding to get a team just to compete. I'd much rather people have time to practice to play better and increase the level of competition.
I think the dc issue should definitely be put at the forfront of this game. Nobody should have their dreams crushed due to a sudden death loss caused by a dc. They could implement a setting for judges to use that would allow them to adjust the individual pokemon's hp, move pp, etc. It doesnt have to be crazily complex. But at the rate competitive is growing. I can only see it happening more and more. Also a better spectate mode would be nice lol
Firstly, it's a game. Secondly, if they hadn't taken into account the possibility of it happening to them before they signed up that's just sad, and if they had and refused to accept it that's just pathetic. It's like complaining about crossing the road without looking and 99/100 times you don't get hit, but on that 100th you do. The risk was there whether you acknowledged it or not.
@@epmcgeebro it’s a championship. Yea maybe a game but for a lot of ppl it’s their career as ytbers and/or competitive players. It’s gamefreaks responsibility, to make sure stuff like that doesn’t happen, and when it does, to provide a better and fair back up plan. And your example of walking across the street without looking is complete bs
Magic's CEDH format mirrors hacked Pokemon controversy. Many people who play the competitive format are more accepting of proxies (fake cards), because not everyone can spend thousands of dollars on cardboard and they want the best game possible from a competitive standpoint.
Tournaments are bigger than they've ever been and issues like what we saw at worlds will keep it from continuing to grow. Thanks for voicing this stuff mister wolfeyvgc; you have a big influence on the community.
This video had an incredible intro bonuswolfe, the best yet many are saying Edit: also i think your take on these things was really measured and I agree with you. I wish competitive was more accessible. I couldn't personally justify getting into competitive at least at the moment, and I can imagine people in worse financial situations than me don't have a chance in hell. I get why people hack.
You make some good points, Wolfey, that are hard to dispute. I've always said there needs to be a rusty bottle cap or what ever to make an IV stat go to 0. With the addition of bottle caps, mints and now even the ability patch for hidden abilities being added to recent games the franchise is taking steps forward to make things easier. An item to reduce an IV to 0 seems like the next logical step.
Yes that would be a good addition but it still doesn’t excuse the cheating/hacking, whatever you wanna call it. The game would be a lot healthier if we were all even
Or just remove IVs entirely. At that point they're just EVs with extra steps and they really have only caused problems for competitive the moment they were introduced.
To use the Internet's favourite quote - "The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.". Hacked mons are effectively equivalent to "pirated" mons. The reason people are hacking is because getting those mons legitimately is such a herculean task that it's worth the risk. Make competitive mons easier to get, and suddenly hacked mons lose their appeal. Legit mons don't even have to be easier to get than hacked ones - people inherently value doing things "the right way", not to speak of avoiding the risk of a DQ or ban - just vaguely in the same ballpark. Being feasible to get for someone with a full time job would be a good start (though not enough).
Imagine having an item, like the bottle caps, that allows you to instead of maxing a stat shows you a slider for all the stats to make your pokemon have whatever value you need.
Or even better, imagine entirely separating the competitive aspect of pokemon from the RPG since they are two totally different games with opposing design goals. Competitive Pokemon should be as easy as Pokemon Showdown! is, and joining tournaments should be as easy as it is to join Smogon tournaments, because every other E-sport is already like that
@@CyberDork34yeah, they won’t do this because it’s game freak and Nintendo. But there’s no reason they can’t just have a Pokémon showdown sort of team builder to create teams that can only be used online, maybe you have to catch a Pokémon to be able to use it in the team builder so there’s a little effort but no more than that.
@@leahbeah1585 sadly you're right. But if by some miracle they come to their senses, I like the idea of giving players on this hypothetical simulator who build teams "by hand" and transfer them over aesthetic privileges over those who use the builder, like the ability to have shinies, titles, nicknames, custom pokeballs, and maybe avatar customization privileges as well. In competitive games the grind should be reserved for cool stuff that doesn't matter, not for boring stuff that is absolutely essential to compete!
I don't really play competitive myself much, but I really hate Regulation D, especially that it was the format for Scarlet/Violet's first Worlds. It's a shame to me that S/V didn't get a regional dex Worlds, and instead there's just a bunch of Urshifu's and Genies running around. But besides that, I hate that they made Home transfer pokemon legal so early because of what Wolfe mentioned about needing like 6 games in order to have access to everything. If you can't catch a pokemon in the latest games, that pokemon shouldn't be legal in competitive IMO.
It's always funny when someone talks about genning points and they don't wanna single someone out but they're very clearly talking about Verlis and his clown takes.
@@hunterrichardson8666 "pvp should be as accessible as possible" is mental gymnastics? Agressive DQs for genned mons is wildly beneficial to people who can afford both the monetary cost and insane time sink of personally catching and training perfect mons. Given the degree to which pokemon favours the people privileged enough to meet these requirement, the game is literally pay to win when it comes to official events.
I agree with you, Wolfe. The time/money constraints are a massive part of why I don't compete myself. I like to get on Showdown every now and then, and I used to do it more when I considered competing, but the reality of the time investment necessary to compete gets in my way due to working 12-hour overnight shifts full-time. It's hard enough to get normal day-to-day stuff done when your body is wired for time outside of business hours, and that's just my situation. Imagine how many other various circumstances, steeper than mine, get in the way of potential competitors being able to participate. If the game had a feature that allowed people to edit stats in-game to create legal versions of their teams, this whole problem would go away. Honestly, it could even be a sort of EV/IV point-buy system similar to TTRPGs (Dungeons & Dragons, Pathfinder, etc.) where moving numbers around isn't exactly a 1-to-1 trade. This would presrve the classic feel of working to train your tournament-ready team, but would also allow flexibility for folks who lack the time to "properly" grind.
I actually went and bought the double pack for Scarlet/Violet because i was going to get into competetive pokemon but didn't realize until afterwards JUST how much of a time investment competetive play is.
@@Will5353_ I see Pokemon as more like chess than a physical sport. This is like basically having to buy a whole new chess kit and glue together the board and carve the pieces before each tournament. Pokemon already has a PTW system in the TCG.
Pretty much the stance of most judges and professors. Players can request changes but don't complain if you willingly violate the rules. Now the complaints about the frequent disconnections causing gaming-defining issues are a problem and Gamefreak and Nitnendo should do something to fix those problems.
I think there should be a discussion about generating pokemon. At this point, its prohibitively expensive to get access to all the pokemon and moves that you need over the years. You need to pay to win! There should be an official channel to allow you to generate pokemon for legal tournament use. If you start playing competitive today, you need to spend thousands in equipment and rare games to have a chance to compete.
Getting access to pokemon, yeah. Iirc, Home resets the moves of a pokemon being transferred into SV, so any moves they need can be taught in SV. But your point still stands, especially for the legends that were made available (the forces of nature, urshifu, etc)
I always thought merging the pokedex features of Legends into main series games (research tasks) and allowing you to edit pokemon EV/IV/moves freely once you have finished the research tasks would make a lot of sense and encourage people to specialize a bit more in game.
With the Teal Mask dlc there’s an item to reset EVs that will come in handy, but imagine if there were an item that could reset all the IVs to 0. Either that or maybe it could reduce one IV and boost another IV much like how mints are used to adjust natures. For casual players these items wouldn’t be of much use but I think it would be a nice additional option for competitive players to have
@@BanditTools If you already have everything at the ready, and assuming you're not making a trick room team. So that means pokemon starting with semi-decent stats, bottlecaps, an abundance of tera shards, millions upon millions in cash to spend on vitamins and various competitive items. If you have all of those things? Yea it takes a few hours. If you don't? Tack on an additional 2-3 hours per pokemon.
It would definitely be beneficial to have an item like a bronze bottle cap that makes a Pokemon's IV in a stat 0. Hopefully we'll see it added in the next games, especially considering how much more accessible making teams has become with recent entries
@@grafzeppelin4069 They are still useful for dealing with stuff like foul play, confusion damage and achieving certain speed stats (generally lower ones). But even putting dealing with that behind another item that takes forever to obtain a number of is silly. Really Pokemon needs to just make a rental system/battle sim system where you can make the mons you need. The problem isn't the complexity of the stats, it's the fact that the process of obtaining the stuff you want is incredibly tedious.
@grafzeppelin4069 They basically eliminated egg moves with the mirror herb mechanic in SV. Also there are specific IVs you would need for mechanics like beast boost or the paradox pokemon. For example Stakataka would need a 15 IV in defense in order to get an attack boost from beast boost. Stat distribution can be important at both the IV and EV level.
I was thinking just make a bottle cap able to adjust 1 stat to whatever IV you want it to be (perhaps with the stats showing so you can see its effect on them). Gold could still be around and let you adjust all as you want?
THANK YOU. I haven’t commented on a TH-cam post since I let loose on Verlisify for laughing and verbally assaulting “cheaters”. Hacking a mon with illegitimate moves/stats/abilities is obviously cheating. But 100000 times what you just said. My comment was a bit degrading to their chorus of cheers, but I basically said they must be really bad if they’re this mad that someone is competing with all legitimately obtainable pokemon. I think of it like chess. Sure, you can collect all these fancy sets and accessories, but the core of it is the strategy. I don’t have hours upon hours to sink into resetting for certain Pokémon, or the even BETTER point you made about replaying a whole game if you already caught it. I run a gym system in one of my discord servers. We all have jobs and families, so of course we generate our teams. It’s the only way we actually have time to battle and connect with others. The whole “controversy” conversation surrounding it feels like gatekeeping
Real talk, I feel like the solution is either to make IVs completely customizable in some way and for said thing to be easily accessible or to remove IVs entirely.
Quick suggestion hoping GF do. 1. Reduce tera shards needed to change type to around 20. (This is coming from me who have 600+ shards per type) 2. Add a bottle cap that reduces stat IV to 0
I feel this is why having an in game team builder would be great, maybe make a currency system in game so you can build up to use it so you still grind in some regard.
@@bengton I mean it wouldn't be a thing you have to use in the base game. You could even wall it behind full dex completion or frontier/tower wins, it would still be better than force resetting for stat drops to play an external competition
Let's be honest. The HOME format is basically insentivating hacking. If the format includes Pokémon that don't exist in your game and that forces you to buy another game to compete people will want the alternative.
So, I just finished the whole video. I'm not a competitive player myself and my knowledge on the topic is relatively limited, but as far as I can tell - You did a great job discussing all the topics! :D
I'm hopeful that these issues will be improved on in the future. I think they were wildly unprepared for the amount of people at worlds because of the growth of vgc and the massive popularity of Japan, but this worlds brought the issue to light so they will very likely be ready to organize this better in the future (and also worlds outside of Japan likely won't have anywhere near this level). I'd be shocked if something won't be immediately done about sudden-death. At the very least, sudden death shouldn't occur in top cut at major tournaments, but this was such a big problem that they most certainly are going to do something about it. And genning issues are a tale as old as time. Unfortunately, I don't think these problems are going anywhere. Pokemon's been getting better in terms of accessability lately, but please get better faster.
The problem is that in VGC you can not rewind or reset the game. Sure you can use the exact same moves, but the inherent randomness such as critical hits, Sleep turns, and strategies changing due to reveals stop people from rewinding games to the exact moment the connection issues happen. The only thing that can be done is to petition Nintendo to make better hardware and to petition Gamefreak to implement a program to stop these issues, but good luck with either of those suggestions.
The main takeaways I have from Worlds, especially in consideration of the discussion around the disqualifications for genning, is that it seems as though there's a disconnect between the vision of TPC for their competitive scene and the reality of what that means for players that want to compete. "We added bottlecaps so you can raise the stats of that Shiny you found; why would players ever want to LOWER their stats?" or "Now you can use your favorite Pokemon from older games that you have saved up in HOME!" But neither of these things consider what that means for the players that do want a Pokemon with lower stats or players that only own one game, etc. The fixes would be to add an item that drops an IV to 0, and limit the pool of usable Pokemon to what is obtainable in the game.
Why they chose to unleash all these non-native Home transfer mons into the mix at such a late stage in the season is baffling. The sudden meta shift this caused clearly caught a lot of players off guard, leading to some questionable decisions being made. This Regulation D (I think that what it's called) change shouldn't have been enacted until after World's had finished
@@rickybobby38 100% they did it so that people would be forced to buy the other games. They aren't trying to run a competitive scene for the sake of good competition. They are doing it to promote their brand and get people to buy their games. Slam-dunk for them if they can get people to buy all the old games AND all the DLC too. And bases loaded home run if they can disallow trading so that each individual person has to buy all the games and you can't trade pokemon to other people. It's all about money
Just make it so at a tournament you signed up for, you get a „tournament“ copy of the game, where you can generate your team for this tournament. It would change nothing but make it more accessible to enter tournaments.
Great video! A fourth hidden category could consist of all the issues revolving around casting this year, such as the terrible and sudden implementation of the spectator mode and the player cams mix up during the semi finals
I find it annoying that they don’t realize how much their choices affect just the normal game too. I wasn’t about to grind for 1000 gimmighoul coins two time, so I very specifically made sure to grind for a 0 attack gimmighoul before I even finished my Pokédex.
Having been around since he was first harassing you, it is so sad to hear that it is still a problem. I never see his content because I did "do not recommend channel" because he's so annoying, but i'm so sorry to hear its still going on. your thoughts were really eloquent, well supported, and I think really logical. Also, always happy to have bonuswolfe content!
What are our thoughts on a team builder embedded into the in-game ladder? That way you have to catch every 'mon you use in a playthrough, but you can make their stats whatever you want (and only within legal limits-no 999 attack Pikachu or whatever) for PvP?
Yeah, it would be awesome if there was a thing where you can like, register pokemon you've owned and then they become available in a battle simulator thing
One issue with your idea: having to catch the mons you want to use. Should just let you set all the stats, ivs, evs, levels, moves, items, etc. No need to have any of the mons or items you desire to use. Rather, that they can hold an international tournament without already doing that is _wild_
Personally, I prefer the standalone competitive game option. Based on the top Pokemon used in worlds you would need: -Scarlet exclusives 60$ USD -Violet Exclusives 60$ -Sword or Shield ~40$ secondhand -SwSh DLC 30$ -Legends Arceus ~45$ Or about ~235 USD to be able to legitimately obtain competitively viable Pokemon. It’s just downright inaccessible at the moment. Edit: kinda misread your comment sorry. I think an editor like that would be very useful, but I wonder if Game Freak would be willing to implement it since the trend the past few games have been to offer a post game where players can grind for stat changing items (or, unfortunately, sometimes locking some features like the item that deletes EVs in the DLC…)
It's pretty clear TPC just doesn't want perfect pokemon to be available to the players instantly, otherwise they would have added a pokemon showdown type mode by now. That is in line with the "spirit" of pokemon so to speak, but it's just not how people tend to play and optimize these games. Otherwise I agree with your take, the rules are clear and people were even warned beforehand. For the example with the Cresselia from gen 4, this one might even be a false positive since it's so old / was probably transferred between games multiple times. I can also understand why TPC can't make their hack check public, then you would just make it easier for the hackers again. It's a messy issue.
The issue with the “spirit” of Pokémon is that they make the changes to breeding/training a Pokémon too slowly. Why not add an iv reducing item at the same time as an iv increasing one. Why add a feature to give a Pokémon a G-Max form in the dlc instead of putting that in the main game. Why not have dna items similar to fossils to obtain the Hisui Pokémon instead of needing PLA and Home. Money is most likely the answer to these questions.
Just add a Pokemon creation process in the competitive side of the Pokemon games. It would be separate from the PvE side, and would open the gates to the casual audience to the higher tiers of competition and thus bring more diversity in team building and mindsets. Anybody who played Guild Wars would know of something similar to this with the PvP character creation process.
The thing about the format is that yeah sure, it’s fun to introduce some new Pokémon into the meta, but the ones they choose are just so difficult to get I wish they just waited a month for the DLC to release and continued regulation C cause so much of this could’ve been avoided.
not to mention if you want Urshifu it requires SWSH+DLC and if you dont have that its $90 usd down the drain and its genuinely only for 1 pokemon (you could get it from a friend but you know they did advise against it so :) )
As someone who's been pretty high on the VGC ladder several times, and have been playing these games my whole life just about, I am no longer playing ranked matches. I just can't afford all the extra games/DLC to have access to all the mons right now. I still watch a ton of content, like you Wolfe, and other great content creators like CybertronVGC, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit saddened only being a spectator for now.
Bring back rental teams with adjustable IVs/EVs. Holy crap, it shouldn't be this hard. Pokemon should understand at this point that if you make it to the world finals you got there because of your skill and expertise - not because you lucked out and caught an optimal IV roll pokemon and your opponent didn't.
I don't see why pokemon doesn't just make a stadium, battle revolution esque game where you can just create the teams. There's literally no argument that "training" a pokemon is challenging or makes a player better
what do you mean they don't allow? They don't make local tournaments but that's probably due to a lack of sales of their consoles which means low attendance, players from those regions can still join tournaments but they have to travel. In the end the tournaments are promotional tools, the company doesn't really care about the competitive aspect beyond that imo.
@@mauricioalonso2157 it's still effectively the same as disallowing players from those regions from participating, when you put such an insane barrier to entry to competing as 'travel to countries around the world with your own money.' saying they can still join but they 'just' have to travel is dishonest to say the least.
I wouldn't know the true reason the Pokemon Company won't host events in these regions, but what I DO know is that they aren't alone in this fact. Plenty of other games don't host wordlwide competitive events in these continents. It just feels reductionist to say this when, at the end of the day, we don't live in a perfect world. Is it ok to just assume the Pokemon Company doesn't host in these places out of bad faith? Idk...
Hey, definetely agree with the final point about accessibility. Ive played pokemon casually for 20 years now (played since gen 1 basically when i was still a kid) and ive gotten only 1 pokemon, in 20 years that i actually wanted with its hidden Ability. To me, getting into competitive, or even i game pvp ladder seems unreal. Like you said, it doesnt give an advantage, its about skill. Alot more people would complete (including myself) if the time barrier wasnt so high.
this scenario is exactly y we need pokemon stadium 3.... but its basically 3d Showdown. no transfer from main games, only rental pokemon... but u can customize iv/ev spreads, moves, nature etc from drop down menus. offer presets for casuals who cant team build.
You did a really good job being impartial about a condition that's affecting people's time and money. From someone who doesn't game competitively, you were succinct and lucid. If you get any flak for the things you said, it means you were over the target.
Considering who one of the two people is. It'll get torn apart regardless. . Not naming him because I don't want him getting any attention but he genuinely treats hacking like it's comparable to a criminal offense.
Totally agree, main issue with Pokemon VGC is the massive time sink and RNG. Most of us just don’t have the time to spend months to grind 1-2 perfect mons just to go 5-5 it’s a waste of time
You said it took you three hours to make your team, but that was with a ton of resource accumulation over the year. For someone with no interest in raids or someone who hasn’t played much past the main story, I imagine the grind to get every item would take much longer. I’d definitely consider competing in Pokémon tournaments if it were more accessible. Showdown leagues are fantastic. Vgc just sounds like so much boring work though, and I doubt I’ll ever try it while there’s such a barrier.
He is being kind of disingenuous when he says it took 4 hours to make his team. Then later mentioned how he grinded when the game first came out. Not to mention he probably has a lot of saved Pokémon from over the years. It’s a really disappointing take.
I don't think I'd call it disingenuous, my guess is that it just wasn't something he was thinking about in the moment. Its easy to point out every little mistake or inaccuracy in a long video like this, but its almost impossible to say everything perfectly off the top of your head when making something like this. I have no reason to not assume positive intent there.
@@brendanthomas6671 He also has a network of players willing to help him out if he needs a specific thing. I remember one of the videos from Sw/Sh era about using Koalossal, and how he asked in his Discord if someone could get him a IV spread/nature for him, and he got it. Sure he could have easily done it himself, but having external sources at the ready to help you get is a big advantage, especially if it comes to the more troublesome mons, like Legendaries. Imagine the time and sanity save in having a group of people willing to hunt and mass reset to get the right legendary mon for you, and all you have to do is provide the specifics.
In Pokemon ROM hacks it is very common to place a NPC that pre poisons your pokemon, or one that changes your nature etc. And it's not like mechanics like these aren't available in the main pokemon games yet but there is a reasonable amount of effort behind getting mists and shards. And these items are mainly meant to help competitive players to get the most out of their pokemon and I don't understand why there is no such item vor lowering or increasing a particular IV. The problem obviously with genning is that it might insentivise players to do so because they have to give their enemies the benefit of the doubt that they might bring a genned pokemon with 0 attack IVs but you didn't and it matters because they might hit you with foul play - and that is a disadvantage. The difference in the total attack stat between 0 and 31 IVs matters substentually on foulplay dmg. But that's not even the bad thing about it. This problem just creates an unecessary stress level and dispute among players that were initially just agreeing to bring the best they can into a matchup, right? I think this problem just creates an unecessary amount of frustration and in a competitive environment I want everyone to have the same chances so they can solely compete in who is the best player and not who has the most friends to get pokemon quickly.
The issue with Worlds put me in mind of the recent Vegas Fanfest for FFXIV. It had many similarities with disorganized entry, risk of heat stroke for no good reason, wild connection issues during the challenge. God I hope this isn’t a trend. As for the hacker issues, I 100% agree with Wolfey. It’s getting easier to build teams with every new generation but it needs to be simpler and clearer.
competitive pokemon will be much more viable (and successful) if you didnt have to build your own fking team from scratch. genuinely, how does it negatively affect the competitive scene if the players were able to build teams in a way similar to like pokemon showdown. it removes a huge amount of 'grinding' time and makes it more accessible, which in turn increases the quality of the matches and players. giving such a feature exclusively to online multiplayer pokemon would help greatly.
I know the opinion I hold is probably one of the more unpopular ones, but the easiest way to remove the most grindy elements of creating Pokémon teams in-game is to get rid of IVs altogether. Natures and EVs are enough; players shouldn’t have to deal with extra stat points they have relatively little control over.
@@campber9908 yeah I agree, every player has to breed for max IVs anyway, might as well give all Pokemon max IVs in multiplayer (or remove IVs). on the other hand, I do like it as part of the regular game cause it adds a bit of individuality to every mon you catch, and just yknow makes it a tad more personal
Remember, Game Freak and Nintendo want you to actually PLAY their games. If you want to play matches with just auto-generated Pokemon like on Showdown, use Showdown. You already have a program for it. But when you sit here and agree to multiple agreements to not cheat (Game Freak's not hacking their game, Nintendo's not cheating while playing with others, and Play! Pokemon's not cheating at events), you should probably NOT CHEAT!
There is nowhere near enough education in the competitive community that this 'grind' they think they're skipping by genning Pokemon pretty much doesn't exist anymore. You can have a competitive ready pokemon now in under 5 minutes. If THAT is too much time investment for you, I don't know what to say. Let me run you through the steps: 1) Catch any pokemon 2) Spam exp candies (you should have a lot by playing the game) on it to get it to at least level 50 3) Buy bottle caps (yes you can buy them) to individually max the IVs you want with Hyper Training 3) Use a nature mint (you can buy them) to give it the nature you want 4) Use a combination of vitamins (10 EVs) and feathers (1 EV) to tailor EVs to exactly what you want 5) Use an ability capsule (plentiful from raids) or patch (rarer, but still common enough from raids) if needed 6) Relearn moves, pass egg moves with picnics (no need to breed) and use whatever TMs you need 7) Buy the item you need from the store with money (no BP grind needed) Your Pokemon is done. Stop whining. Stop cheating. I know some will complain about NEEDING 0 Attack IVs but you don't technically NEED that. Zero speed is a little more important, but guess what: If you want, you can add that onto the process and make step one breeding the Pokemon with a Ditto with the 0 atk or speed stat that you need. That isn't hard either. 100% pass down rate with the corresponding power item. The rest of the IVs are irrelevant since you can max what you want with hyper training. If you need a 0 atk and 0 speed... little more luck involved, but as someone who has bred hundreds of legal 6IV pokemon, it's certainly not impossible, I'll tell you that. This isn't the age of hidden power. You don't need your IVs to be weird specific numbers. It isn't super complicated anymore. It's all been very streamlined and anyone still genning Pokemon at this point is a sad little person who shouldn't be involved in this scene. They're incurably lazy people who just want to spend all day in simulations and not play the actual game except when there's a prize involved.
A friend of mine actually did the math for how long, on average, it would take to catch a 0 atk 0 speed enamorus, and it turned out to be over 3500 hours, and thats if you play all of your resets at current PLA Any% World Record pace. Its insane
@@CaprielleHarmonyif each stat has 31 possible iv (is that right? Don’t quote me) and each value is equally likely and each stat is determined independently, then 31(31) = 961. If WR pace is 3:45, then 961(3.75) = 3603.75. Idk the game enough to know if those assumptions are true, but that would check out with your friends result.
@@CaprielleHarmonymost legendaries have guaranteed Iv’s. Which is to say, have 3-5 IV’s at max. Farming for not only a roll where 2 specific stats arnt maxed, but also roll a 1 in 31 chance twice
Im guessing that your friend ignored the fact that the IV can be either 0 or 1 for both stats which makes the odds significantly more likely than whatever he calculated
Sudden death doesn’t belong in Pokémon. I think worlds this year shows that the “higher ups” did not care about the players, just the “event”. Because in their mind, all the players don’t ultimately matter, compared to the marketing of the event
The accessibility thing was even a problem last gen where you had to play through the entire game plus crown tundra if you wanted to use the other Calyrex. Not to mention resetting for 0 speed on Ice Rider and 0 attack on Shadow Rider.
People complaining about basic mechanics that have practically been in the game since gen 1 are ridiculous. Oh no, this Pokemon isn't accessible because I have to play the game!
I do think the biggest "elephant in the room" is the TPC telling people not to trade for their Pokemon. Trading is one of if not THE most quintessential aspects of Pokemon. If having genned/hacked Pokemon is such a huge issue for them, then get them off the GTS and make it so people don't have to worry about who they are trading Pokemon with. I think that would go a long way in cooling the rhetoric around genning.
This ^. I don't touch competitive pokemon, but I enjoy watching people play it. And the fact that TPC has a LITERAL global trade system IN THEIR GAME, and then they go "Yeah don't trade for your pokemon" is hilarious to me. 😂😂😂
Although in all honesty I think people should be allowed to gen pokemon as long as they're legal imo 🤷♀ All it does is save time. Or give players freaken IV-changing items... Pay-walling off several staple pokemon in entirely different GAMES is so scummy man
@@valeereon9954To that last point, the Pokemon business model has been awful from day one.
They just did it early enough that they kind of get grandfathered in and are ignored for discussions of awful business models in gaming.
@valeereon9954 Yeah I pretty much agree that genning (or some in-game equivalent) should be allowed. Because like it's mentioned in the video, it's not just about one or two hard to get mons for one tournament. It's about constantly needing to build and experiment with new teams for a constantly shifting meta. Even a current gen9 pokemon like flutter mane can have 10s of different builds and move sets. We've seen it go from complete glass cannon, to using substitute, to bulky and back again. Doesn't make sense to ask people to build and rebuild the same pokemon over and over again.
It's just laughable that they have to explicitly warn against using a defining feature of the series because of their own rules they can't even enforce in their own game.
@@88porpoiseYup. If any other game franchise implemented Pokemon's business models the whole gaming community would be in a complete uproar. Pokemon was paywalling content behind entire game copy prices since Gen 1.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Pokemon franchise but you're right they seem to get such a pass from the community that no other franchise likely would.
"Don't trade for your Pokemon. What do you mean you need a Paradox Pokemon from Scarlet, and you're playing Violet? That's cheating! We will now assasinate your entire family." -TPC, with their very big brains
Maybe it would be better if teams could be submitted before tournaments and players could recieve rentals from TPC with their requested items, stats, moves, and abilities?
Thats actually a super good idea
Yoooooooo
it s a super simple idea employed in every esport on the planet, in most games they just give special accounts to high level competitors with everything unlocked (league of legends champs and even skins for example)
but Nintendo would never give up the chance to force a competitor to spend a couple hundred bucks in order to compete, they will never do such an easy fix
I thought this was how things worked initially when I first started checking out the VGC scene. It just makes so much more sense.
@@nicolarobatto7469 Why blame this on Nintendo when this is an exclusively Game Freak issue? Nintendo is much more accommodating with their Splatoon, Smash Bros, and Mario Kart tournaments.
tbh picking James off the rip was a good start. I think I take the accusations more seriously from someone who is, like you said, not a complainer, AND someone who's been in the VGC community long enough to have an idea of how things SHOULD be in comparison.
This isn't "I had my first World's experience, didn't win, and now it's the worst thing ever". This is a veteran who has opinions based on experience.
He also is used to traveling for playing pokemon. Having someone who you can be confident isn't just conflating jet lag and actual event frustrations influencing his play is big IMO
@@StrengthOfADragon13also placing 3rd in the last two worlds championship means he did perform consistently before and knew what to expect from his level of play too.
@@urilgal while I agree with most stuff that was said, James hasnt been performing well for the SV meta tho. I think he only made top 4 for one of the many regionals he attended.
@@velvetstigma4961 yeah man he's so washed /s
And yet he comes across as a complainer that also was unprepared for the event.
It’s kind of wild that official tournaments aren’t using rental teams. Allowing the luck of getting the right ivs to effect matches is just crazy
it's crazy that a decently large portion of the community can't see how negative it is for competitive pokemon how long it takes to build a team. Would CSGO be as popular of a competitive esport if you needed to grind for 100s of hours for the "perfect" ak47? what if for smash bros tourneys you had to breed marios for dozens of hours to get "perfect" stats? The whole thing is so ridiculous, just let people jump in and compete right away if they want too.
@@djbcubed IVs are a really cute idea, making each individual in a species subtly different. It adds spice to RP and casual playthroughs. For competitive, it's a nightmare for no real benefit. Shinyhunters might enjoy fishing for IVs, but it's unhealthy to have it influence competition. Natures are a single chunk effect, alone I could see myself arguing that they're worth adding grinds, but as they're another added variable making the grind even longer, I'm sad. I honestly don't see why IVs aren't just automatically treated as 15 (or otherwise ignored) for all 'mons during a tournament.
People do grind for the perfect AK though, it's called Fortnight or buying keys in CSGO etc. It's not really the same thing for multiple reasons, but there are all kinds of reasons to grind that have small effects. IVs don't even matter a lot of the time (or at "good enough" exists), but it might, so there's a perceived need to grind for perfect. Can you imagine losing because you thought an IV of 28 was good enough and you failed a 98.2% chance? That'd feel almost as bad as someone tripping over a cable and getting sent to sudden death.
@@djbcubed 100% true. They're taking the "Trainer" in Pokemon Trainer too literally xD
@@Nekrozumore like the "pokemon breeder" trainer class specifically.
Other normal trainer class NPCs would still having EV training but not care about IVs that much.
@albertonishiyama1980 ah yeah, my bad! I am new to the pokemon world as well.
There should be an Anti-Bottle Cap that lets you reduce an IV to zero. That would be huge and probably make fewer people consider hacking/genning.
Soda Bottle Cap
Literally just let players set the exact number they want with the bottle cap system they have now
Rusted Cap
To be honest I don’t think that would do much. Pkhexing in a full team is infinitely easier and faster then actually training one. It will be always faster unless VGC stars battling on simulator. If Hack checks stay lenient I can almost guarantee you that 80% or more of VGC players will gen their Pokemon.
bitter cap or something, you can already reduce friendship ffs
Not to be controversial, but beautiful intro.
Youre on thin ice pal
It was a hacked-in intro.
Not to be racist but that's so nice.
Truly one of the intros of all time.
Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave?
They should just make it so that bottlecaps give you the choice of IV value instead of only setting it to the max.
For all casual players it would make 0 difference, but for those that actually need different IVs it'd be massively beneficial.
Also: if they can detect hacked pokemon, they should really give you a way to check if a poke is legit before you trade for it.
fr, they need to add hack checks to at least surprise/wonder trade because getting genned in and advertisment pokemon on there has been an issue since gen 6 and they havent done anything about it
The hack check is don't via an external software, the games themselves (outside of Home) have no way to check. And even Home won't throw errors if they're hacked in properly.
The main reason people got caught was because the hacking tool they were using was blanking the Home tracking data instead of putting nothing there, which shouldn't happen.
@@AztecCroc thats because the home tracker isnt something you can just get since its made server side, so if you just inject a pokemon that wasnt at all meant to be in S/V without the use of home (aka Urshifu, and other transfer only pokemon) it would be flagged as hacked, what the people who genned in the mons should have done is genned them in their respective games and then transfer them to S/V through official channels, rip that guy with the hacked cresselia from gen 4 tho thats just unfortunate
@@Pixtrix_That Cress kinda an example though, the main way Pokemon are created is via giving a bot the data for a pokemon and then it just infinitely copies that data, but it was removing the Home tracking data from a Pokemon that should have it being from gen 4 and all.
@@AztecCroc no the home tracker and the origin data are seperate also im like 99% certain the cress thing was a PID/IV mismatch (because IVs and Nature were both tied to PID pre-gen 5) or encounter type/area mismatch that just went undetected, i have no reason to doubt wolfey and the guy who owns the cress saying they transfered it up properly from gen 4, the only time you'll have an issue with home trackers is when you just gen in a pokemon that doesnt natively exist in whichever game you inject it into ex: urshifu in S/V
It really strikes me that the organizers of Worlds were not prepared for the growth in competitive play. They're going to need to invest more money in prep and organization and infrastructure to account for growth instead of watching and trying to plan reactively.
Weren't the numbers of most events of the past seasons up?
Possible that may never happen, depends on how much money the Pokemon Company makes from all of this and competitive in general
@@endy7630 I thought I heard worlds always runs at a loss and they just view it as marketing. That being said, they could EASILY charge more. Spectator badges are like $20 but seemingly impossible to get. I would've paid 10x that to avoid the lottery.
either that or TPC doesn't prioritize worlds going smoothly as very important to them anymore. perhaps it doesn't have a cost-vs-profit ratio that skews enough in their favor for them to give a shit, and they see competitors as nothing more than sheep they can shepherd to buy their stuff and be quiet about it. i hope im wrong about this, but only time will tell.
@@saltlakeatrocity9771I want you to be wrong, but I don’t think you are.
Being able to “hack” or generate Pokémon for tournaments and ranked would make the entire pro scene much more approachable for newcomers.
Terrible take, pokemkn is fundamentally a single player adventure rpg and grinding is part of the mechanics, hacking in pokemon is like cheating in World of Warcraft.
@@StarsShatteredBeyond World of Warcraft doesn’t have a pro scene. We’re only talking about hacking Pokémon stats within their own limits specifically for tournaments. Like building a Magic the Gathering deck for a tournament. These players don’t play Pokémon for the RPG aspect, they’re playing for the competition. So why not give them the tools they need. And anyone who plays JUST the rpg game can hack all they want anyways without repercussions 🤷♂️
@@kurtru5selcrowe607 I don’t agree with banning people for mons they traded years prior, my problem is the lack of hack checks within the games. The point is GameFreak never built a Showdown for tournaments, ever now getting Pokémon is an essential part of the game and cheating gives you an unfair advantage in time, not everyone is suppose to grab a perfect Pokémon and sometimes you either settle, build a different team or be creative. If you want to play Showdown good, I do too, but if you want to play the actual game, you’ll have to accept that it was never meant to be Showdown.
@@kurtru5selcrowe607 justifying cheating in VGC is like justifying cheating in the TCG, yeah it sucks you need several grand to put up a good deck, but the solution is not to print your own cards.
@@StarsShatteredBeyond no I’m saying that they allow it so it’s not cheating. Not everyone has time to grind and tweak an entire team of Pokémon to exactly what they want. So allow them to hack it, or add an in-game tool so it’s not a hack like you can on Showdown for the big tournaments so they’re more accessible. I really don’t see the negatives of letting people bring the exact Pokémon builds they want to a tournament. As long as the Pokémon stats are within its natural limits of course.
It seems to me that not allowing genning will create a huge nepotism issue where people already heavily networked and with tons of friends can get every pokemon they need while people entering the scene will be stuck with budget options.
Especially with thier new penchance for dlcs, which effectively locks away some mons behind paywall
Completely agree with this- TPC just needs to come up with some way to let any players have the pokemon they need for competition, otherwise there's an embarrassingly massive accessibility issue for a tournament this big
@nakulbansal6927 The DLC is equivalent to a 3rd version. While it is scummy that 2 versions exist, and then a third version is normally having additional content it is something we have had for years now.
I am personally okay with the DLC adding in new mons. That said only mons able to be obtained on the current release should be legal for tournaments.
4.3. Illegally Manipulated Pokémon
The use of external devices, such as a mobile app, to modify or create items or Pokémon in a
player’s Battle Team is expressly forbidden. Players found to have Pokémon or items that
have been tampered with may receive a Disqualification, regardless of whether the Pokémon
or items belong to that player or were traded for.
@@snasmusic"they need"
They dont have to do anything and wont do it. Their main sells are through casuals "enjoying" the game rhan competitive and its integrity.
Being able to lower IV’s would singlehandedly make competitive team building 100% easier. Everything else has pretty much being solved. Abilities, natures, ev’s is all solved
It's coming in the DLC. My guess is it'll be base game content by Gen 10, if not by the next remake.
let's add this tho - EV training was actually MUCH cheaper in Gen 7 and 8 where you could use the boring/grindy manual EV training but in 24 hours you could also FREELY fully EV 10+ mons through Poké Pelago or Poké Jobs.
also Tera is grindy as HELL - it should either be much cheaper or have a pokémon remember multiple Tera types after you use 50 shards on it and be able to switch between them, that would be passable.
PS: but yes, not being able to lower IV's and Pokémon Company ridiculously telling VGC players 'don't trade' (absolutely unbelievable!) = two biggest fuck-ups. but let's not say 'Gen 9 made everything easier' - Teras and lack of PokéJobs/PokéPelago made parts of it worse too.
a few issues would still remain tho... needing multiple games and versions for one... Want flutter mane and iron hands? well that's already two games required and then you add all the Sword and shield mons, the arceus mons, it starts adding up fast... Also I don't see the value in forcing people to grind the fuck out of tera raids and shit, just so that they can build and test teams. As Wolfe has said so many times before part of pokemon is that the meta is constantly evolving, so you might have to switch out teams, you might want to adjust your tera typings, stats and so on as the season progresses.
It's honestly a shame that third party programs like pokemon showdown basically have better tools for a competitive setting than the official game...
@@Pablo360ableWhen did they day a way to lower IVs was coming in the DLC?
That Cresselia story was rough, can’t image how they feel
That’s been the pain for years..and it used to be even harder
Most likely a false positive too. Imagine all the kinds of edge-cases such a mon has gone through. Many gens, back and forth. Some probably even throughout multiple revisions of the games. Maybe even trade into and back from romhacks or tools to use QoL features there, like iv checkers, or maybe even good grinding spots! And so on.
@@feha92 This exactly. Imagine if the reason there's no "IV lowering" in S/V is because the way they're checking pokemon is based on whether or not a pokemon's stat has been lowered, not raised; or if their device is faulty.
@TaIathar every pokemon has an assigned PID that is calculated at least in part using the pokemons IVs. So any IV modification will potentially lead to an invalid PID, which can be checked.
@@obi-wan3916 I'm talking about things that are change-able in-game such as in S/V you have Silver/Gold Bottlecaps to raise pokemon's IVs. However, outside of S/V there are Bronze Bottlecaps which can lower a Pokemon's IV. If someone lowered an IV, then traded it into their S/V version, this is what I am suggesting would create a false positive. Your suggestion of IVs being connected to PID would create a false positive for literally every single person in the tournament that bottlecapped their pokemon. Even if it's true, there are obviously other factors playing a part to create a possible false positive for the Cresselia.
The issue with Enamorus IVs is that IVs aren't easily visible in PLA (all Pokémon of the same species have the same stats). You have to move it to HOME in order to check its IVs, at which point the game needs to be saved... therefore you need an entirely new save if the IVs aren't the ones you need.
i somehow ended up with a 3 atk iv 6 speed iv enamorus... i had no idea until today i had godlike luck
To complete that answer, you can check the starting effort levels of a pokemon in PLA, so the IVs aren't completely random either
But while 31 has its own starting EL (making getting one reasonably easy), EL 0 is 0-20IV, so you're still looking at an average of 441 playthroughs to get a 0 attack 0 speed enamorus
Don’t forget in your discussion of this that competitive pokemon exploded during SwSh. There are many people totally new to the competitive scene, or those who re-entered pokemon after leaving, may I remind us all that bank/transporter/poketransfer was locked.
For brand new OR returning players who skipped on SwSh entirely or even JUST its DLC, Lando, Torn, and Thundy are also likewise locked, as are heatran and cress for those who also skipped on BDSP- and regardless BDSP status Urshifu is COMPLETELY unobtainable for this crowd.
The only way that could be easier than to either hack the Pokemon or go through the entire game *again* funny enough, would require a hacked Switch too (backing up your save, catching the Enamorus, and trading it to a second Switch with LA played up to being allowed to trade, upload to HOME, and if it wasn't a good one, restore the previous save for the hacked Switch)
... ironic considering it requires hacking of some kind, but it wouldn't be hacking that affected the actual Pokemon, just the time spent to get it... (which like Wolfey said, time should NOT play a factor when competing... but honestly TPC/GF really need to make an easier way to lower IVs, not just have a way to raise them to max)
@@serpentmaster1323 what do you mean locked? yes the eshop is closed but if you have it installed bank and transporter work, and if you have a hacked 3ds you can install them
Some people where disqualified for having 'hacked' mons in their boxes in Home not even on their teams. Additionally another person lost a round because a referee thought him naming his box pkhex even when it didn't have hacked mon in it was a valid reason to stop him from participating in the round.
Seriously????
What a joke
You gotta admit naming a box "PKHex" and getting dq'd is kinda funny. Like having a folder on your desktop named "Crimes I Done".
That's wild
I've been playing catch up with this silly controversy at Pokemon VGC. What evidence do you have to base those claims of people getting dq'd for having hacked mons in their poke Home? I didn't see any articles on it.
My personal, humble, opinion is that once you get to the post game, there should be an in-game feature where you can just straight up edit IV's, EV's, natures, moves, everything. Make it post game so it doesn't ruin the playability. But the only thing most players do post game are various forms of completionist goals that are community inventions, dex filling, shiny hunting, grinding for competitive, etc. etc.
Hardly a master or anything, but I really can't see any down side once the the game is considered finish.
Big agree. There should be in an in game showdown-like teambuilder and battle simulator. That way you can make any mon you want for your competitive team, but could only progress through the story using Pokémon you caught
I would say, even, just make it so you can save a build. You have to have a nature of a Pokémon to set to that nature. You have to have gotten a Power item to set your EVs for that stat. Shiny? Better have seen it. IVs can all be edited if you've Hyper Trained a single one, and you have to have gotten a TM or unlocked it in a move relearner to use. Make it so instead of paying for training items, you pay to unlock the features. That way, they keep the postgame capturing and raid loop to find items to unlock things in the mode, but the grind is once. If I catch a random Charadet, level to 100 by candy, and have unlocked all the TMs it can learn, and then evolve? I get every option on that. It makes it so you can still somewhat easily modify things, yet you have to do at least some grinding, so you have to interact with the mechanics.
@@furiouscorgi6614very good idea and It gives Easy goal but there Is still something to do
It should only apply to online battles
They kind-of already have the beginnings of that now in SV. With candies, mints, bottle caps, vitamins, mirror herb, TM machine and berries you can make basically any Pokemon perfectly trained in less than an hour, it just cost's an arm and a leg. If they made all this stuff cheaper/free (and made berries easier to get) then there wouldn't be much of an issue I'd think.
Just as a quick reminder for anyone finding this a bit later on the rules changed from allowing only the Scarlet and Violet dex to the entirety of pokemon HOME mid season. All those accessibility problems are much worse under new rules with a stricter deadline
That was the major issue which in many people's minds justify hacking. The tournament should have been only mons obtainable in normal game play for SV. No events, No home only pokemon.
We need some way to lower IVs, reset EVs (we know this is in DLC), and verify integrity of pokemon. That might sound like a lot but it really isn't. Ideally this should be in a single interface. If we must use different items than they should be obtainable in game with a single currency [poke dollars, BP ideally either interchangeably] in said interface as an option. Just put it in post game and make the costs reasonable. That solves the majority of the issues with genning pokemon. The rarity factors (shiny, marks, personality variants) do not need to be or should be touched with this.
@@RFDN0 We do have a way of resetting EVs though, the friendship berries like Pomeg Berry and Tamato Berry, it's not very convenient unless you're checking the auction house every now and then when playing but it exists.
@@Zorroark The berries act as a way to lower EVs. I am referring to a one use item/process that clears EVs like we had in gens 6 and 8.
While it's not currently an issue (yet), there have definitely been times in the past where an limited distribution event pokemon was competitively viable. The moment that happens, you're going to run into people who missed out on that event, and are forced to either trade for or generate a copy of the event pokemon with the exclusive move.
I didn't play back then, but I've heard tons about Eruption Heatran, which iirc is one of the more notable VGC mons with an event move. Another one, funny enough, was Wolfe's own Raichu from 2016, which was a Global Link event
TPC isn't really doing events with exclusive moves not named Hold Hands, Celebrate, etc, or moves that literally do nothing in battle. It gives the sense of rarity while also not causing problems with event exclusive moves
Like Wolfe's Dream Ball Raichu with Encore
iirc chansey with seismic toss and wish is a 2004 event mon. prior to eviolite existing, a lot of those chansey became blissey.
also, wasn't ice punch tyranitar a event mon? I think I've seen that it high profile events before. I could be wrong, however
@@jameswhite2308 Z-Celebrate has a use as omniboost. Not sure if it's ever been used in VGC, or if it's only on Smogon ladder.
When I was a student, I was quite appalled when I learnt my older friends hack pokemon to play in tournaments, but now that I’m an adult with a full-time job and a kid I can see why
It’s in the rules, so you can’t be mad if you’re disqualified, but at the same time competitive is impossible to play without the optimal pokemon. Being gatekeep from your favourite game is sad
Exactly. I feel a lot of people are saying "genned bad because rules" because they actually don't have sympathy for any other person's situation that can keep an otherwise good player out of the competitive scene. While genning is definitely against the rules, condemning people for genning pokemon that have a legal build (obtainable through normal play via tedium) is silly.
People who can't do competitive as a full time job have an immediate disadvantage. People that have obligations outside of Pokemon have an immediate disadvantage. People without the money for all of the games have an immediate disadvantage. People who don't have others to help them build a team have a massive disadvantage. The list goes on. Genning allows otherwise good players to actually practice for competition.
Transcend finger pointing. Normalize compassion. TPCI/Game Freak need to release a separate game that is a battle simulator.
Awwww boohoo... Did he lose and suddenly he's not as arrogant as he was before? Who cares? He lost because he's bad. Finally he's being exposed for the fraud he is.
@@poweredman did you step on a lego?
like ever? I think I have yeah, why?@@IschmarVI
@@poweredman
Who are you even referring to?
This comment just feels unhinged, and you refused to actually respond to any of the argumentation other people put forward and instead jumped on acting like a high school brat.
I like that Wolfe makes the distinction between something being "against the rules" and "cheating". Even if you do feel that genning is somehow cheating, your only argument can't just be "it's against the rules therefore it's cheating". Rules are not always about preventing cheating. For example, you're not allowed to have food in the play area. There's no explicit reason given for this but it is almost certainly to help keep the play area clean. Nothing to do with cheating or one player having an advantage over another.
THANK YOU!
Genning is cheating because it creates an unfair time advantage
@@hunterrichardson8666 explain
@hunterrichardson8666 maybe try using an argument that isn't debunked directly in the video we are commenting under.
@@fromcanada5221 hold on, let's not fall to the same levels of the casual gatekeepers. Let's hear him out first, see if he has an explanation
Verlisify wasted no time at all to call you out for "defending cheating." Does that guy actually have fans?
Sad part is that people actually believe Verlisify about Wolfey being a hacker after this seven year beef.
God that guy is so annoying 😂
This is really a showcase on how appearance has superseded functionality at all levels in Pokemon. A tournament system has been lacking from the game for way too long and could easily be added as an adjacent program like Pokemon Home, being able to connect with and affect the games.
Not just pokemon, the wolrd as a whole became just appearance over health or efficiency
Pokemon prioritizes appearance over functionality? Scarlet/Violet is the ugliest game ever made by a person.
@@Someursault Appearance as in marketing/making yourself look better than you actually are
@@Someursault The better way of saying is marketing creating the illusion rather than what actually is happening.
I think the speculation on what caused the disconnect of the top 16 matches is that someone tripped over a cord.
But that's not the issue. The shitty game that in the year 2023 can't recover a save state is
@@Riccardo-kw5dc I mean tripping over a single cord should not cause half of the top 16 match’s to disconnect that’s arguably an even bigger problem
@@azeria1 no, because the fact that a game with no real time action can't recover a save state that's basically super light data is way worst. The disconnect is bad but a cord can bring electricity to many stuff. Shouldn't happen at that level but wouldn't be a problem with an half decent game
Plus, who says players can't abuse this? There's huge wins on the line at world's. It isn't going well in your top cut match? Just have a friend pull a cord and suddenly you have another chance (pun intended). After this, I'm sure players would start abusing it if the rules don't change. It's so ridiculous, like Wolfey said sudden death is nothing like a real game, it shouldn't be a thing.
I am never going to speak against hacked mons. Pokemon created this quagmire due to their own poor design for the competitive scene.
The point of competitive Pokemon is not "how much time did I spend grinding?", but "did I create and pilot the best team?".
If one of the prominent drivers of Pokemon performance is dependent on hundreds of hours of breeding and game resets, then all it does is gatekeep the scene from new talent and prioritizes people with money to remain in the fast lane.
There is zero skill component to breeding or game resets for ideal legendaries. "How long did it take you to flip a coin and get 15 heads in a row" should not be the basis of a competitive ruleset.
Honestly, TPC should have a competitive online mode that is like Showdown where you can customize a team, and THAT should be the format for official tournaments.
Until that time, I'm never going to look down upon "hacked" Pokemon. It's the solution to the problem TPC created for itself due to poor design for its competitive scenes.
The event was a mess, I'm a worlds player for Pokemon Unite and our game only got 2 days with 31(28) teams which made for a lot of upsets and variance. There were 8 groups and basically if u dropped 1 set u could not get top 8 and can only play for top 16. This coupled with the fact that Unite is a fairly rng games at times ( rayquaza steals ) made a lot of top teams projected to have good standings place poorly. There was also equipment issues multiple times where players could not control their character properly or was disconnected from a game turning a win into a loss. The side stage was so small the enemy team can hear your comms which put english speaking teams at a huge disadvantage as the enemy team would know all their call outs as oppsided to the foriegn teams. These are the issues exclusive to unite on top of all the issues Wolfey mentioned about waiting in line and getting passes.
I think "inacessible" is actually the exact right word for this situation. I think this video is great - you really explain why the current methods of obtaining pokemon is so problematic. When you step back and think about it, it's *insane* that "cheating" in pokemon isn't even about getting better or stronger mons than your opponents - it's just about making something already legal easier. There are obviously a ton of issues with how Gamefreak handles the series in general, but one of the biggest things stunting its growth with an adult audience (who will also be the ones spending more money per consumer) is the relative lack of an out-of-game adult community. Having an expanded competitive scene could be huge in this regard - lots of people keeping a community engaged, generating lots of content, and driving people to invest more time, energy, and money in a different way. But the competitive scene remains so inaccessible - even understanding how a pokemon's stats and moves work requires significant time investment to learn mechanics that are never explained in game, not to mention all the issues with obtaining pokemon (especially for a newer player who doesn't have resources or wants to experiment). The barriers to entry are insanely high for what is ultimately for most people a way to relax and have fun. If GF ever wants a truly large and active competitive player base (they should, because money), the entire system needs an overhaul - but that probably would never happen, because the pokemon company doesn't care about their own games or playerbase.
I think part of the problem with "legal" pokemon being easier way to view things is that sure its "legal" but once you check the possibilities of the pokemon having the generated ivs, shiny and all stuff it comes to one in billions sometimes (like some of Wolfs past pokemon in gen V, VI etc) so sure the pokemon is legal but it was impossible to get in reality , so is not just "easier" is straight up easy.
No!! The point is taking the time to raise the perfect pokemon to fit whatever needs you want to enjoy your game. Going to hacked pokemon should land you a disqualification. Gaslighting players who raised their pokemon legitimately to get to the VGC is disgusting. Especially if you know the rules and you break them anyway. You wanna use molded stuff to have fun in your game, that's on you but don't go into competitive thinking your great at the game when you cheated your way to the top. Im sure all those players have the skill and talent to raise these pokemon legitimately, so do so.
@@dusk202 I think it's inaccurate and in bad faith to say that those who hack in their pokemon are "cheating their way to the top." You'd have a point if they were trying to hack in pokemon with stats that are typically impossible to have, but that's not what's being discussed here. As for the "skill and talent [required] to raise these pokemon legitimately," it's really not that at all, especially with all of the tools the modern games give you to help determine your pokemon's IVs, EVs, etc. EV training is really not so much a skill as it is a mechanic to understand. I guess to say it more clearly, the difference between someone who gets eliminated on day 1 of VGC and someone who wins the competition never comes down to how good they are at EV training their pokemon, just what EVs they decided to go for. If you have a set amount of EVs in mind, all it takes is planning. Everything after that is honestly pretty mindless: use this item, KO this pokemon, rinse and repeat till you have the EVs you want.
While yes, you do have a point that bringing in pokemon through hacking when it's been told that's illegal is wrong, I don't think that's the argument being made here. The argument is whether or not it should be illegal in the first place, and I think as long as the pokemon you hack in don't give you an inherent advantage, I don't think it should be illegal. In fact, it may be healthier for the game to adopt hacked pokemon. The main barrier to entry for a lot of people when it comes to competitive VGC is the time commitment. It's not just the time it takes to team build or compete, but also the many hours it takes to raise the pokemon you need the legitimate way. By allowing hacked mons with legal stats, abilities, and movepools, there's increased competition and more chances of new faces reaching the highest level of play instead of it only being the same few dominant players who've made pokemon their careers. In fact, more players means more competition, which means it takes even more skill to make it to the top.
TLDR, hacked pokemon are illegal right now and usage of them should be penalized, but I think that rule should be changed so that the competitive scene becomes more accessible, thereby increasing the competition and therefore the skill ceiling.
@@BatVader-ne6kf but they do hack pokemon that are otherwise most impossible for most of the normal players. Take for example the encore dream ball raichu with perfects IVs from wolfey or their moltres with 0 Iv in attack. Or when players gen a pokemon with a move from an event distribution that couldnt have perfects IVs with perfects/specifics IVs that is not available for all the other normal players. Normals players are stuck with the version of the event they got so thats the tradeoff. Sadly genned/hacked pokemon on competitive make this unfair for the normal players as they have to invest the time for raising a perfect pokemon, and that IS part of playing pokemon (catching and raising pokemon to make them battle) Hackers skip the first part
.
Competitive is so much more accesible now compare a few gens back where you had to spent weeks building a team, so hacking nowdays is so much more evidence of being lazy, hackers just dont want to play the game at all, this is not showdown or a fightning game (and even in some fightning games you gotta play to unlock all the characters).
@BatVader-ne6kf I will say you wrote quite the explanation and I respect that. What you miss and I see Wolfy kinda dancing around it is that the rules were laid out cut and clear, it IS NOT and argument of whether it should be allowed because they have made that decision and have made it clear its a no go and there are consequences to breaking those terms. Manipulation of the game code of any kind is considered hacking, therefore cheating until GF says otherwise. It doesn't matter if you didn't do it to get certain stats or if you did, or if you did it to get a specific pokemon with certain attributes that you were looking for, you manipulated the game code without the consent of the game developer, therefore in their eyes and their rules, your a cheater. Idk why it is so hard for people to comprehend basic user terms and agreements. Your explanation was very well put together and you did give some clarification and perspective on raising pokemon, mechanics, and the why to people doing what they did, but it is still in the realm of wrong and people trying to justify cheating at VGC are gaslighting. I look forward to see how GF handles 2024 but I see them doubling down on their rules because all the folks that will try to boycott the VGCs and poke tubers who disagree with the rules how GF goes about it is NOT a loss to GF at all!! When people complain you have to spend money to get certain pokemon in the game, yea that isn't on accident, GF wants that money, you either pay it to stay competitive or you don't and lose out. If I was GF, and luckily I'm not, I'd be coming for my bread because this makes them lose out on money when people can just "gen" their desired poke. GF is a business and the Poke company is a multi billion dollar company, they WILL give a damn when things can potentially hurt revenue. Maybe they should go to rented teams at VGC if they can't trust players to play as intended.
one common counterpoint from the people getting angry about genning is "It's not that expensive to get mons from Home! JuSt TRaDe FoR ThEm IF YoU CAn"T AfFoRD ArCeUs Or SW/SH" Yeah, you know what you're risking when you trade with strangers on the internet? You can be busted for "hacking" just as easily for being traded pokemon you thought were legit as someone who went and got a team made up a genning discord.
Another Argument is "UsE DiFFeRenT PoKeMon! TrY NeW ThiNgs!" that's not how competitive play works, you can't really use weak pokemon if you can't formulate a plan for the meta threats. Yes it's possible to find underrated mons that preform well, but it's not possible for everyone, Nevermind the time underrated Pokemon do suprise tournament wins are very meta-dependant and power-level dependant format reads.
People take the wrong message from the Pachirisu thing and didn't realise it doesn't just mean "you can win with weak off the wall teams" it means "sometimes lower powered pokemon come up in the highest levels of play based on format reads"
I saw it at first as a big achievement but nowadays i see it more like how specific item he needed that few mons fit and he chose the electric squirrel
The real problem is that TPC wants to have its cake and eat it too when it comes to how people play Pokemon.
On one hand, they want to shape a specific experience around forging a team from nothing and growing attached to them, etc until the player grows into some sort of understanding where they can become regional champion. (this is how literally every single mainline entry in the series since the mid-1990s is structured)
On the other hand, they (supposedly) want people to take their Esport-Tournament scene seriously and attract new players into it, just like any other sport. But these goals are diametrically opposed to each other, and for pure arbitrary reasons that TPC has complete control over.
Straight up: There is absolutely no reason (not by logic or ethics) why it should take literal weeks (often MONTHS if one is not using RNG manipulation or other such "hacks") to create a SINGLE (read: LITERALLY ONE) tournament-viable Pokemon team anymore.
When anyone can hop onto Pokemon Showdown, build a competitive team in and start competing all within 10 MINUTES of starting, what the Hell is stopping THE OWNERS OF THE LARGEST AND MOST PROFITABLE FRANCHISE ON PLANET EARTH from offering something that's just as good or better in their own products?
Nothing. Nothing but their own backwards internally competing mismatched priorities and arrogance.
It's not even about profit here either. The 'pay to win' aspect of TPC's competitive Pokemon scene impacts less than 5% of their total revenue, because the overwhelming majority of people buying their games are casuals who have absolutely nothing at all to do with the competitive Pokemon. (again, Pokemon is literally THE most child-friendly and profitable franchise in the world and has been for over 20 years)
Whatever extra cash they're wringing out of the diehard tournament players by forcing them to buy multiple games and their DLC for transferring into the modern metagame is going to be utterly insignificant already, and only hampering the uptake of new players into that scene.
My solution is far from being original but here it is all the same:
First, build basic access to the competitive Pokemon scene into the core games.
Within every copy of the game, include access to the following:
1) An in-house version of something like Pokemon Showdown that is COMPLETELY separate from all PVE/Single player game content.
2) An ID-based system that tracks competitive players' online performance and IRL-event progress, that they use whenever they engage in either. Make these mandatory for national-level competitions (and a Passport ID for world competitive level events).
Note: Providing real-world ID is not necessary unless the player enters the real world competitive event scene.
When someone signs up for competitive events, they link their real-world ID stuff to their competitive ID. (this is done for basically every other international competition already, including Magic the Gathering)
Finally, at all official events (city, national or world tournaments) TPC runs the games on their own in-house hardware (Switches, Game Boys, whatever, etc).
Now that all the essential competitive player data is kept on TPC's end, all players have to do at events is show up, provide their requisite IDs to prove who they are, walk in and either download a copy of their team from TPC's current Pokemon online system, or make one within the 'Pokemon Showdown' system and lock it in as their submitted team for that tournament.
Reception at events is now sped up significantly while the security and the integrity of the event is massively improved on account of not having to check literally hundreds of contestants for modified consoles, hacked games, etc.
Of course, I'm just a lowly peasant far removed from the business world and its decisions, so what the hell do I know?
Just for a clarifying point on the Enamorus example: every time you leave and re-enter the Crimson Mirelands it resets the "IVs" (Effort Level) and nature. Doesn't hurt your point too much, because as someone who hunted a good one it took a very, VERY long time
Also doesn’t help that an EL of 0 can be the equivalent to an IV of 0-20
Like there’s absolutely no way to fully tell in the game you’d have to transfer up to really check
@browserjunior4707 absolutely right! I truthfully did not go for "pure 0" IV because of how hellish that would be. I went for 0 Effort Level and got low enough!
EDIT: I was completely wrong here, as I forgot how PLA changed things. My bad.
Super minor nitpick here. IVs are Individual Values, not Effort Level. I think you meant Effort Values, which are what EVs are, and a fresh catch would not have any EVs.
Feel free to ignore me.
@@JDP5127 From what I've heard, PLA uses a different stat system than the mainline series does, essentially consolidating the functions of IVs and EVs into Effort Levels, with a pokemon's IVs determining their initial effort level, which are then raised with items.
@@JDP5127 legends: arceus replaces IVs and EVs with Effort Levels. So in the context of catching enamorus talking about effort level is correct
Every legal pokemon in the format should be ALWAYS catchable in the game ur competing. It makes no sense that 90% of the meta is not available in scarlet and violet. If usaluna, urshifu, cresselia, ecc. would be catchable and resettable in the game (just like during ORAS where u could catch every single legendary legal in the restricted format) there wouldnt be the frustration to get them that leads to hacking
And having and way to easily raise/lower iv’s easily
Sounds like Pokemon needs to set up formats. One for unrestricted entry and one where the Pokemon you can play with are only catchable in the game you're competing on.
I love when Wolfe says bad faith actor instead of a certain person
You can see what Wolfey means because That bad faith actor has made glitching guides which he said is cheating, he has defended Aimbots, which is cheating & he has promoted instacheck. A third party software which is against the rules. If any thing I think that bad faith actor is a complete cheater/liar.
@railfaneric7107 yeah.. he Also made like 10 videos on ts and they got around 700 views apiece lol
@@hypernova366 the sad part is that he still has beef with Wolfey for seven years now.
@railfaneric7107 exactly bro so dumb
@@RFE812 He has beef with everybody because he's a loser with nothing better to do lol
I tried making a competitive team in sun/moon season 1which was a hassle but fine. Then season 2 dropped and the tapus became legal and I couldn't put in the time to get the right iv's on them. I never really tried again because I don't want to put in that insane time to get the perfect mons for the metagame each time.
I wish there was a feature like pokemon rentals for competitions. Where you could use the mons exactly like you want in a competition but cannot use them outside of that environment. It would definitely get me back into competitive play
There are rumors that next dlc might come with a feature like this. I doubt that these are anything more than fan theories but if they actually do it - that would be gamechanger for competitive pokemon.
Honestly I just play with whatever I get. In fighting games I don't only play meta characters and only do optimal combos as well. Just try to have fun along the way, not being 100% optimal shouldn't be an issue unless you want to win tourneys. However, the technical state of competitive pokemon is abyssmal atm and turned me away from the series with the past 2 games.
I personally don't mind breeding a pokemon but getting stats on legendary pokemon is just silly.
Even if you do get one that's good for your purpose, having to replay the entire game to hunt one with a different IV spread is just stupid.
I think its pretty simple. Give us a force 0 IV to stats game mechanic already.
They the meta evolves to fast because of all the hacking. Wish there were better in game hack checks & and better team building mechanics.
It only makes sense that this year has had the most hacked Pokémon,
due to it being harder then ever to make a competetive team,
because of the hurdles you have to go through to change a Pokémons Tera-Type and getting Meta-Pokémon like Urshifu, Creselia, or something of the sort.
I hacked bc its so hard and i want to make money without effort 😢
@@iancastro1327 blud has no idea what genning is
@@iancastro1327 do you really think theres no effort involved in qualifying for worlds and then showing up and winning?
@@auberry8613he's never going to achieve anything close to "showing up at worlds", so clearly not.
@iancastro1327 if you're making a competitive video game. Everything for your players should be AT THE MINIMUM accessible to all players within the game.
They are not. End of discussion.
This then isolates THE majority of the player base. It becomes a situation where jt isn't fair for the majority of players unless they're willing to shill out more money for prior games and then have an immense amount of time to then work on a team as that isn't even quick.
People will stopp genning pokemon when genning pokemon isnt; 1 cost efficient, 2 saves multiple days/ weeks worth of grinding, 3 is less rewarding than making the team yourself.
Until there is a situation in which at least 2 of those are met, genned pokemon will plague their competitive series. However nintendo won't comply to any of those because it 1, makes them less money, 2, they literally have no reason to because they don't have to build their own pokemon teams.
The best way to sort this out is bby making their own unique stadium game that can be future proofed.
They need to just make PvP full custom in the game series. You setup a team with all the perfect stats and items and etc, then they use that for PvP. They don't get the pokemon in their game, but they can use whatever team they want for matches.
PvE grind shouldn't be mandatory for PvP just like how PvP grind shouldn't be required to PvE.
Rental teams were supposed to be a solution to this, and when rentals were added as a feature, I expected that would be how things would work going forward.
Not utilizing one of the best QoL features ever introduced to the series at the highest level of competitive play doesn't make any sense to me.
you have to grind in any RPG, either for pvp or pve, it actually takes two different sets for each type of gameplay usually, so why would pokemon be different?
@@Nobody-su9kmNot pokemon, they are talking about competetive pokemon tournaments. It's an entirely different game. It is just like how pokemon stadium gave you a roster of lvl 50 mons to choose from - except for any valid e-sport the players should be able to customize everything entirely as they prefer..
Pokemon is a singleplayer game (well, nowadays there is coop) that is like you say a RPG, and only interact with others through link cables or IR ports. Big difference.
it's still the same game, wether you like it or not, saying otherwise is like separating WOW's competitive pvp battles from the grind you need to get to that point, or separating FFXIV late game raids from the grind you have to go through to be able to do them, it's a part of the game, the reward for your time spent and dedication amounts to being able to grind the late game content, aka competitive, and it's not even close to as hard as any of the games i quoted, so stop crying, game is easy as it is.@@feha92
and also, other games don't have differences between same characters, you comparison would be equal to having to exp grind characters in league of legends for example, and then play with it, in that case i bet you as much as you want that they would not give everything for free, also, MOBA's and FPS's are completely different from what pokemon competitive is, on pokemon those stats and whatnot DO MATTER, so giving them for free is giving an advantage to any player who didn't go through the process, on lol however, a Sion will always be a sion.@@feha92
I've seen a lot of suggestions to just make PVP full rental/customizable and I personally think it'd be cool if top-level choices were available based on your dex entries, whereas IV/EV were automatically available for anything you are eligible to use.
For example - things like species, gender, regional form, and shiny forms are all unlocked based on your dex. Once you have it registered, you can pick it and customize IV/EV/ability/nature. This gives everybody a reason to complete the new games when they come out and kinda provides something of a lineage connection from the Pokemon you raised to the Pokemon you ultimately battle with (for those of us nerds who like the roleplay of it lmao). It *feels* a little more like something TPC might endorse.
But all that work is frontloaded when a new game (or expansion pack) drops. You've gotta put that work in, but only once per generation, and then you can set up whatever team your heart desires just like on Showdown.
I feel like part of the competition is the solo experience that is creating the team yourself, and achieving the stats yourself. its the first step. you;re solo, there is no time limit, but thats part of the competition too. lets be real tho, if you're gonna take time off work, fly to japan, germany, w/e. you clearly had the time to make a team. This is my personal opinion, but earning the mons is part of the experience. should every NASCAR vehicle have the same pit crew and same build? nah, thats part of every competitive experience. comming prepared and bringing what you earned. getting the IV's is RNG, but not really, its inevitable that youll get them.
@@christianwinandy341 Good luck with that 0 Speed 0 Attack Cresselia then
@@riouxp2787 legit or quit then. Some people actually put in the effort to get it. Since the possibility to get it exists the argument of "it isnt fair" is invalid. Go buy sword and shield, its readily avalible. and best of luck
@@riouxp2787 bottle caps?
@@lukefarrell1453 Show me the Rusty Cap and we’ll talk
Never understood why Pokémon can’t make their own version of PKHex for events. Gets rid of all the controversy.
I'm a firm believer of the concept that competitive gaming is best when it is a test of player skill rather than, to put it one way, "avatar power." If you compete against another player in pokemon, the outcome of the match should be dependent on both players' teambuilding, metagame knowledge/foresight, risk assessment, etc. It shouldn't be dependent on how much time each player was able to spend grinding a singleplayer story mode, or who had better connections that could do the grinding for them, or who had the money for additional games that won't even be played during the tournament.
You people say that but have no problem with things like RNG in the game, like a lucky crit or a game just having so much RNG. Pokemon is at no point about skill.
@@DaShikuXI I mean, it's not. You can be mad about if you want, but every level of the game is riddled with uncompetitive mechanics. You don't have control of what pokemon you find, you don't have control of the stats your pokemon have, you don't have control over the damage you do with each attack, you don't have control over crits, you don't have control over who gets luckily frozen or not and so and fourth. Pokemon actually has some of, if not the worst, RNG of any competitive game I've ever seen.
MLB/NFL/etc should just make roids and performance enhancing drugs legal. who has time for practice, lifting, etc. all that matters is hitting the ball/scoring!!!
@@DaShikuXIcrits ignoring stat drops or ups aren't just a damage variance difference though. the RNG behind crits has heavy impacts like it or not, that's ofc not just one, others RNG are stuff like paralyze or confuse to be perfectly frank
@@DaShikuXI you only prove my point because you don't know what you are talking about.
Encounter rates mean that it is theoretically possible that you never find a pokemon. It is possible that someone just doesn't see an Abra for 10 years of playing every day in RBY and even still in SV. You can manipulate RNG, but you can't force it to spit out a number.
Breeding is again RNG manipulation, not control, not to mention some mons can't breed, bottlecaps can send stats up they can't send stats down ie if I wanted a 17 speed magmorter but I keep getting 20+ I can't force it to 17, vitamins don't affect IVs
I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't control the damage you do unless you are using something like seismic toss. A damage roll is, by definition, not control of the damage you do.
The items and abilities do not let you control crit they let you manipulate RNG, which is again not control. Control is being able to decide when you crit or how you earn a crit or whatever. Although I think there are some ways to get 100% critical chance, which in those cases is control.
Held items that might save you or might be a total waste because the flamethrower burn just never happened. And again, you don't have control over if you will burn with flamethrower or not
There aren't many elements of RNG. The game is riddled with it at every single level of the game. Also, while there is a skill in playing around, probability in and recognizing possible game states based on probability that doesn't make the game a test of skill. Some games are just statistical anomalies that you can't predict, or you would be a fool to try to play around. A game like chess, however, is a game of pure skill and knowledge. There is value to both, but pokemon leans way more on the luck side than something like a card game or even blackjack.
You and Freezai seem to have the same stance I do about the folks DQ'd from worlds via the hack check, "I don't condemn you for your actions, but I don't pity your consequences". I felt like they made big strides to lowering the barrier to get a full team in Scarlet and Violet, but then they made the pokemon home introduction and undid so much of it. I bought PLA but haven't beaten it, and seeing that I would have to beat PLA in order to hypothetically do teambuilding frustrated me.
Hearing the story about a trusted player having received a hacked mon I couldn't help but be concerned that there was a glitch in trading that was causing incorrect flags for the hack check.
Oh it's 100% possible their advanced hack check flagged legitimate Pokemon. It's called a "false positive" after all. Fully possible something all the way from older games wasn't accounted for and kaput
@@Zeldrake Not only possible, but I would even argue likely. Wait until you hear someone throw a buzzword like "AI-powered" for such a tool. At that point you know some tech-illiterate higher-up pushed for it and that the system is deeply flawed. Though even before considering that possibility I would expect such a tool to give false positives for mons like that story's.
There's also the possibility that the trade system uses a less strict check than the tournament one.
@@ZeldrakeI mean it was a shiny Cresselia probably hacked however I think if the Pokémon has been used in a tournament before it should be exempt from these checks
@@chrishusted9296it 100% is this check was literally only used for the WC and that’s it
For anyone confused why there's no way to check if your mons are legal: it's likely because providing such a mechanism would make it way easier to hack them confidently. It would no longer be a risk to bring hacked mons to competitions, just a matter of continuing to try until you pass the check, and then you can participate comfortably
(I'm not saying hacking is bad, just trying to explain the likely rationale behind this decision)
Probably also because hacking *isn't something you should be doing in the game to begin with*
Worlds occurred in Japan. Under Japanese law, possession of modified software or save data is punishable by up to 5 years in prison. It is a cultural difference in how copyrighted material is treated, and is likely the reason that a Japanese company has rules that comport with Japanese Copyright laws.
@@mogalixir The difference being that hacking the actually games, is a different kinda of crime. I do agree that trades/ regualr online play likely needs a stronger hack check as you shouldnt be able to obtain a hacked pokemon under the premise that its logitimate.
Then you just ban people who try to trade or use hacked mons.
Maybe also just have a 1 time no penalty hack sweep tied to your nintendo id. This would let logitimate player purge all their hacked mons at no risk. Then assuming the checks work they have no risk of ever obtaining a hacked mon. (i guess local trades could fuck them)
@@PkmnMstr10 You sound like the type who will say "good" when Nintendo shuts down a ROM hack.
@@PkmnMstr10 Yeah, not spending hundreds of hours grinding to get a team just to compete. I'd much rather people have time to practice to play better and increase the level of competition.
I think the dc issue should definitely be put at the forfront of this game. Nobody should have their dreams crushed due to a sudden death loss caused by a dc. They could implement a setting for judges to use that would allow them to adjust the individual pokemon's hp, move pp, etc. It doesnt have to be crazily complex. But at the rate competitive is growing. I can only see it happening more and more. Also a better spectate mode would be nice lol
DC sounds like a backup plan if things go south in a match. What a total joke.
Firstly, it's a game. Secondly, if they hadn't taken into account the possibility of it happening to them before they signed up that's just sad, and if they had and refused to accept it that's just pathetic. It's like complaining about crossing the road without looking and 99/100 times you don't get hit, but on that 100th you do. The risk was there whether you acknowledged it or not.
@@epmcgeebro it’s a championship. Yea maybe a game but for a lot of ppl it’s their career as ytbers and/or competitive players. It’s gamefreaks responsibility, to make sure stuff like that doesn’t happen, and when it does, to provide a better and fair back up plan. And your example of walking across the street without looking is complete bs
The match disconnection issue is insane. If you're horribly losing a match, your buddy can give you a free reset. Insanity.
Magic's CEDH format mirrors hacked Pokemon controversy. Many people who play the competitive format are more accepting of proxies (fake cards), because not everyone can spend thousands of dollars on cardboard and they want the best game possible from a competitive standpoint.
Tournaments are bigger than they've ever been and issues like what we saw at worlds will keep it from continuing to grow. Thanks for voicing this stuff mister wolfeyvgc; you have a big influence on the community.
This video had an incredible intro bonuswolfe, the best yet many are saying
Edit: also i think your take on these things was really measured and I agree with you. I wish competitive was more accessible. I couldn't personally justify getting into competitive at least at the moment, and I can imagine people in worse financial situations than me don't have a chance in hell. I get why people hack.
Ppl hack cause they’re lazy and nothing else
You make some good points, Wolfey, that are hard to dispute. I've always said there needs to be a rusty bottle cap or what ever to make an IV stat go to 0. With the addition of bottle caps, mints and now even the ability patch for hidden abilities being added to recent games the franchise is taking steps forward to make things easier. An item to reduce an IV to 0 seems like the next logical step.
Yes that would be a good addition but it still doesn’t excuse the cheating/hacking, whatever you wanna call it. The game would be a lot healthier if we were all even
Or just remove IVs entirely. At that point they're just EVs with extra steps and they really have only caused problems for competitive the moment they were introduced.
To use the Internet's favourite quote - "The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.". Hacked mons are effectively equivalent to "pirated" mons. The reason people are hacking is because getting those mons legitimately is such a herculean task that it's worth the risk. Make competitive mons easier to get, and suddenly hacked mons lose their appeal. Legit mons don't even have to be easier to get than hacked ones - people inherently value doing things "the right way", not to speak of avoiding the risk of a DQ or ban - just vaguely in the same ballpark. Being feasible to get for someone with a full time job would be a good start (though not enough).
Imagine having an item, like the bottle caps, that allows you to instead of maxing a stat shows you a slider for all the stats to make your pokemon have whatever value you need.
Do not forget nature mints it’s truly never been easier 1 hour of gameplay 😂
Or even better, imagine entirely separating the competitive aspect of pokemon from the RPG since they are two totally different games with opposing design goals.
Competitive Pokemon should be as easy as Pokemon Showdown! is, and joining tournaments should be as easy as it is to join Smogon tournaments, because every other E-sport is already like that
@@CyberDork34yeah, they won’t do this because it’s game freak and Nintendo. But there’s no reason they can’t just have a Pokémon showdown sort of team builder to create teams that can only be used online, maybe you have to catch a Pokémon to be able to use it in the team builder so there’s a little effort but no more than that.
@@leahbeah1585 sadly you're right. But if by some miracle they come to their senses, I like the idea of giving players on this hypothetical simulator who build teams "by hand" and transfer them over aesthetic privileges over those who use the builder, like the ability to have shinies, titles, nicknames, custom pokeballs, and maybe avatar customization privileges as well.
In competitive games the grind should be reserved for cool stuff that doesn't matter, not for boring stuff that is absolutely essential to compete!
@@leahbeah1585
Imagine this literally not even being a consideration and you could set stats on a slider from the second you catch it.
I don't really play competitive myself much, but I really hate Regulation D, especially that it was the format for Scarlet/Violet's first Worlds. It's a shame to me that S/V didn't get a regional dex Worlds, and instead there's just a bunch of Urshifu's and Genies running around. But besides that, I hate that they made Home transfer pokemon legal so early because of what Wolfe mentioned about needing like 6 games in order to have access to everything. If you can't catch a pokemon in the latest games, that pokemon shouldn't be legal in competitive IMO.
Yeah Reg D was 1000% the wrong call to make here, they should’ve waited for the mons to be catchable in the DLC at the very least.
They should split the tournament. One tourney open to all gens, and one open to only that gen/game
It's always funny when someone talks about genning points and they don't wanna single someone out but they're very clearly talking about Verlis and his clown takes.
Verlisify is right though Wolfey is contradicting himself and doing mental gymnastics to justify cheating in a competition
@@hunterrichardson8666 "pvp should be as accessible as possible" is mental gymnastics?
Agressive DQs for genned mons is wildly beneficial to people who can afford both the monetary cost and insane time sink of personally catching and training perfect mons. Given the degree to which pokemon favours the people privileged enough to meet these requirement, the game is literally pay to win when it comes to official events.
@@hunterrichardson8666 Nah Wolfey actually respects people's time, Verlis is just a slimey fuck that needs to disappear.
I agree with you, Wolfe. The time/money constraints are a massive part of why I don't compete myself. I like to get on Showdown every now and then, and I used to do it more when I considered competing, but the reality of the time investment necessary to compete gets in my way due to working 12-hour overnight shifts full-time. It's hard enough to get normal day-to-day stuff done when your body is wired for time outside of business hours, and that's just my situation. Imagine how many other various circumstances, steeper than mine, get in the way of potential competitors being able to participate. If the game had a feature that allowed people to edit stats in-game to create legal versions of their teams, this whole problem would go away. Honestly, it could even be a sort of EV/IV point-buy system similar to TTRPGs (Dungeons & Dragons, Pathfinder, etc.) where moving numbers around isn't exactly a 1-to-1 trade. This would presrve the classic feel of working to train your tournament-ready team, but would also allow flexibility for folks who lack the time to "properly" grind.
I actually went and bought the double pack for Scarlet/Violet because i was going to get into competetive pokemon but didn't realize until afterwards JUST how much of a time investment competetive play is.
How’s that different to any other sport ?
@@Will5353_ I see Pokemon as more like chess than a physical sport. This is like basically having to buy a whole new chess kit and glue together the board and carve the pieces before each tournament. Pokemon already has a PTW system in the TCG.
I feel for the guy that found out his Cresselia was hacked. I would do the same thing if I found out one of my prized Pokemon was hacked.
Wolfey out here literally looking younger than he did a couple years ago
Campaign to get the rules changed, but don't complain if you intentionally break the rules and get caught.
Pretty much the stance of most judges and professors. Players can request changes but don't complain if you willingly violate the rules. Now the complaints about the frequent disconnections causing gaming-defining issues are a problem and Gamefreak and Nitnendo should do something to fix those problems.
I think there should be a discussion about generating pokemon. At this point, its prohibitively expensive to get access to all the pokemon and moves that you need over the years. You need to pay to win! There should be an official channel to allow you to generate pokemon for legal tournament use. If you start playing competitive today, you need to spend thousands in equipment and rare games to have a chance to compete.
Getting access to pokemon, yeah. Iirc, Home resets the moves of a pokemon being transferred into SV, so any moves they need can be taught in SV.
But your point still stands, especially for the legends that were made available (the forces of nature, urshifu, etc)
I always thought merging the pokedex features of Legends into main series games (research tasks) and allowing you to edit pokemon EV/IV/moves freely once you have finished the research tasks would make a lot of sense and encourage people to specialize a bit more in game.
With the Teal Mask dlc there’s an item to reset EVs that will come in handy, but imagine if there were an item that could reset all the IVs to 0. Either that or maybe it could reduce one IV and boost another IV much like how mints are used to adjust natures. For casual players these items wouldn’t be of much use but I think it would be a nice additional option for competitive players to have
So an item that you HAVE to use in a lot of cases is behind another paywall. Seems bogus tbh.
lol hacking is such a non-issue for competitors and spectators compared to the scouting and leaking teams that happened
This made me realize Larry probably hacks his Pokemon because there's no way someone could work full time and have two competitive teams.
But casuals told me it takes an hour or two to make a team in S/V.
It doesn't take that long to train 12 pokemon, if even that many.
@@BanditTools
If you already have everything at the ready, and assuming you're not making a trick room team.
So that means pokemon starting with semi-decent stats, bottlecaps, an abundance of tera shards, millions upon millions in cash to spend on vitamins and various competitive items.
If you have all of those things? Yea it takes a few hours. If you don't? Tack on an additional 2-3 hours per pokemon.
It would definitely be beneficial to have an item like a bronze bottle cap that makes a Pokemon's IV in a stat 0. Hopefully we'll see it added in the next games, especially considering how much more accessible making teams has become with recent entries
I would just eliminate IVs from the game. (And egg moves.) They really do not add anything interesting mechanically to either in-game or competitive.
@@grafzeppelin4069 They are still useful for dealing with stuff like foul play, confusion damage and achieving certain speed stats (generally lower ones). But even putting dealing with that behind another item that takes forever to obtain a number of is silly. Really Pokemon needs to just make a rental system/battle sim system where you can make the mons you need. The problem isn't the complexity of the stats, it's the fact that the process of obtaining the stuff you want is incredibly tedious.
@grafzeppelin4069 They basically eliminated egg moves with the mirror herb mechanic in SV. Also there are specific IVs you would need for mechanics like beast boost or the paradox pokemon. For example Stakataka would need a 15 IV in defense in order to get an attack boost from beast boost. Stat distribution can be important at both the IV and EV level.
I was thinking just make a bottle cap able to adjust 1 stat to whatever IV you want it to be (perhaps with the stats showing so you can see its effect on them). Gold could still be around and let you adjust all as you want?
Uh no, IVs are important,@@grafzeppelin4069
THANK YOU. I haven’t commented on a TH-cam post since I let loose on Verlisify for laughing and verbally assaulting “cheaters”. Hacking a mon with illegitimate moves/stats/abilities is obviously cheating. But 100000 times what you just said. My comment was a bit degrading to their chorus of cheers, but I basically said they must be really bad if they’re this mad that someone is competing with all legitimately obtainable pokemon. I think of it like chess. Sure, you can collect all these fancy sets and accessories, but the core of it is the strategy. I don’t have hours upon hours to sink into resetting for certain Pokémon, or the even BETTER point you made about replaying a whole game if you already caught it. I run a gym system in one of my discord servers. We all have jobs and families, so of course we generate our teams. It’s the only way we actually have time to battle and connect with others. The whole “controversy” conversation surrounding it feels like gatekeeping
Real talk, I feel like the solution is either to make IVs completely customizable in some way and for said thing to be easily accessible or to remove IVs entirely.
Quick suggestion hoping GF do.
1. Reduce tera shards needed to change type to around 20.
(This is coming from me who have 600+ shards per type)
2. Add a bottle cap that reduces stat IV to 0
i know this is a really late reply but they should just make it so during hypertraining you can elect the IV value you want
The moral of the story and ultimate gamer quote;
“Is it an unfair advantage to be unemployed?”
I feel this is why having an in game team builder would be great, maybe make a currency system in game so you can build up to use it so you still grind in some regard.
Battle frontier
that would take so much fun out of the base game
@@bengton I mean it wouldn't be a thing you have to use in the base game. You could even wall it behind full dex completion or frontier/tower wins, it would still be better than force resetting for stat drops to play an external competition
Let's be honest.
The HOME format is basically insentivating hacking. If the format includes Pokémon that don't exist in your game and that forces you to buy another game to compete people will want the alternative.
This ^
Yo what they say
MY WRIST IS SO STUPID THEY CALL IT VERLISIFY
Shofu on top fr
So, I just finished the whole video.
I'm not a competitive player myself and my knowledge on the topic is relatively limited, but as far as I can tell - You did a great job discussing all the topics! :D
I'm hopeful that these issues will be improved on in the future.
I think they were wildly unprepared for the amount of people at worlds because of the growth of vgc and the massive popularity of Japan, but this worlds brought the issue to light so they will very likely be ready to organize this better in the future (and also worlds outside of Japan likely won't have anywhere near this level).
I'd be shocked if something won't be immediately done about sudden-death. At the very least, sudden death shouldn't occur in top cut at major tournaments, but this was such a big problem that they most certainly are going to do something about it.
And genning issues are a tale as old as time. Unfortunately, I don't think these problems are going anywhere. Pokemon's been getting better in terms of accessability lately, but please get better faster.
The problem is that in VGC you can not rewind or reset the game. Sure you can use the exact same moves, but the inherent randomness such as critical hits, Sleep turns, and strategies changing due to reveals stop people from rewinding games to the exact moment the connection issues happen. The only thing that can be done is to petition Nintendo to make better hardware and to petition Gamefreak to implement a program to stop these issues, but good luck with either of those suggestions.
The main takeaways I have from Worlds, especially in consideration of the discussion around the disqualifications for genning, is that it seems as though there's a disconnect between the vision of TPC for their competitive scene and the reality of what that means for players that want to compete. "We added bottlecaps so you can raise the stats of that Shiny you found; why would players ever want to LOWER their stats?" or "Now you can use your favorite Pokemon from older games that you have saved up in HOME!" But neither of these things consider what that means for the players that do want a Pokemon with lower stats or players that only own one game, etc. The fixes would be to add an item that drops an IV to 0, and limit the pool of usable Pokemon to what is obtainable in the game.
Why they chose to unleash all these non-native Home transfer mons into the mix at such a late stage in the season is baffling.
The sudden meta shift this caused clearly caught a lot of players off guard, leading to some questionable decisions being made.
This Regulation D (I think that what it's called) change shouldn't have been enacted until after World's had finished
@@rickybobby38 100% they did it so that people would be forced to buy the other games. They aren't trying to run a competitive scene for the sake of good competition. They are doing it to promote their brand and get people to buy their games. Slam-dunk for them if they can get people to buy all the old games AND all the DLC too. And bases loaded home run if they can disallow trading so that each individual person has to buy all the games and you can't trade pokemon to other people. It's all about money
Just make it so at a tournament you signed up for, you get a „tournament“ copy of the game, where you can generate your team for this tournament.
It would change nothing but make it more accessible to enter tournaments.
Remove a key facet of what makes Pokemon the game it is changes nothing? 🤣🤣
@@epmcgeebro what
Great video! A fourth hidden category could consist of all the issues revolving around casting this year, such as the terrible and sudden implementation of the spectator mode and the player cams mix up during the semi finals
Whoops! But that seems funny to watch in playback......
I find it annoying that they don’t realize how much their choices affect just the normal game too. I wasn’t about to grind for 1000 gimmighoul coins two time, so I very specifically made sure to grind for a 0 attack gimmighoul before I even finished my Pokédex.
Having been around since he was first harassing you, it is so sad to hear that it is still a problem. I never see his content because I did "do not recommend channel" because he's so annoying, but i'm so sorry to hear its still going on. your thoughts were really eloquent, well supported, and I think really logical. Also, always happy to have bonuswolfe content!
who is harassing him?
@josephcruz8135 verlisify. Dude is a mega chode and only stays relevant by attack poketubers more popular than him.
@@jailbreaker813prob verlisify or whatever his name is
What are our thoughts on a team builder embedded into the in-game ladder? That way you have to catch every 'mon you use in a playthrough, but you can make their stats whatever you want (and only within legal limits-no 999 attack Pikachu or whatever) for PvP?
Yeah, it would be awesome if there was a thing where you can like, register pokemon you've owned and then they become available in a battle simulator thing
it would be awesome if the devs implemented a fraction of what would be helpful in a competitive scene
One issue with your idea: having to catch the mons you want to use.
Should just let you set all the stats, ivs, evs, levels, moves, items, etc. No need to have any of the mons or items you desire to use. Rather, that they can hold an international tournament without already doing that is _wild_
Personally, I prefer the standalone competitive game option. Based on the top Pokemon used in worlds you would need:
-Scarlet exclusives 60$ USD
-Violet Exclusives 60$
-Sword or Shield ~40$ secondhand
-SwSh DLC 30$
-Legends Arceus ~45$
Or about ~235 USD to be able to legitimately obtain competitively viable Pokemon. It’s just downright inaccessible at the moment.
Edit: kinda misread your comment sorry. I think an editor like that would be very useful, but I wonder if Game Freak would be willing to implement it since the trend the past few games have been to offer a post game where players can grind for stat changing items (or, unfortunately, sometimes locking some features like the item that deletes EVs in the DLC…)
It's pretty clear TPC just doesn't want perfect pokemon to be available to the players instantly, otherwise they would have added a pokemon showdown type mode by now. That is in line with the "spirit" of pokemon so to speak, but it's just not how people tend to play and optimize these games.
Otherwise I agree with your take, the rules are clear and people were even warned beforehand.
For the example with the Cresselia from gen 4, this one might even be a false positive since it's so old / was probably transferred between games multiple times. I can also understand why TPC can't make their hack check public, then you would just make it easier for the hackers again.
It's a messy issue.
The issue with the “spirit” of Pokémon is that they make the changes to breeding/training a Pokémon too slowly. Why not add an iv reducing item at the same time as an iv increasing one. Why add a feature to give a Pokémon a G-Max form in the dlc instead of putting that in the main game. Why not have dna items similar to fossils to obtain the Hisui Pokémon instead of needing PLA and Home.
Money is most likely the answer to these questions.
Just add a Pokemon creation process in the competitive side of the Pokemon games. It would be separate from the PvE side, and would open the gates to the casual audience to the higher tiers of competition and thus bring more diversity in team building and mindsets. Anybody who played Guild Wars would know of something similar to this with the PvP character creation process.
The thing about the format is that yeah sure, it’s fun to introduce some new Pokémon into the meta, but the ones they choose are just so difficult to get I wish they just waited a month for the DLC to release and continued regulation C cause so much of this could’ve been avoided.
I feel like if they’re gonna do the transfer mons, they need to have them available elsewhere in the game at some point.
not to mention if you want Urshifu it requires SWSH+DLC and if you dont have that its $90 usd down the drain and its genuinely only for 1 pokemon (you could get it from a friend but you know they did advise against it so :) )
As someone who's been pretty high on the VGC ladder several times, and have been playing these games my whole life just about, I am no longer playing ranked matches. I just can't afford all the extra games/DLC to have access to all the mons right now. I still watch a ton of content, like you Wolfe, and other great content creators like CybertronVGC, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit saddened only being a spectator for now.
The story about a player who quit pokemon and giving away all his shinies because of Cresselia actually made me sad
Bring back rental teams with adjustable IVs/EVs. Holy crap, it shouldn't be this hard.
Pokemon should understand at this point that if you make it to the world finals you got there because of your skill and expertise - not because you lucked out and caught an optimal IV roll pokemon and your opponent didn't.
I don't see why pokemon doesn't just make a stadium, battle revolution esque game where you can just create the teams. There's literally no argument that "training" a pokemon is challenging or makes a player better
One of the worst parts of the tournament is that they call it a "world" championship when neither Africa nor Central Asia are allowed to compete
And Korea because tpci sucks
what do you mean they don't allow?
They don't make local tournaments but that's probably due to a lack of sales of their consoles which means low attendance, players from those regions can still join tournaments but they have to travel.
In the end the tournaments are promotional tools, the company doesn't really care about the competitive aspect beyond that imo.
@@mauricioalonso2157 it's still effectively the same as disallowing players from those regions from participating, when you put such an insane barrier to entry to competing as 'travel to countries around the world with your own money.' saying they can still join but they 'just' have to travel is dishonest to say the least.
I wouldn't know the true reason the Pokemon Company won't host events in these regions, but what I DO know is that they aren't alone in this fact. Plenty of other games don't host wordlwide competitive events in these continents. It just feels reductionist to say this when, at the end of the day, we don't live in a perfect world. Is it ok to just assume the Pokemon Company doesn't host in these places out of bad faith? Idk...
THANK YOU, for talking about the problem with transfer pokemon. finally someone truly relevant to the scene is talking about it
Hey, definetely agree with the final point about accessibility. Ive played pokemon casually for 20 years now (played since gen 1 basically when i was still a kid) and ive gotten only 1 pokemon, in 20 years that i actually wanted with its hidden Ability. To me, getting into competitive, or even i game pvp ladder seems unreal. Like you said, it doesnt give an advantage, its about skill. Alot more people would complete (including myself) if the time barrier wasnt so high.
this scenario is exactly y we need pokemon stadium 3.... but its basically 3d Showdown. no transfer from main games, only rental pokemon... but u can customize iv/ev spreads, moves, nature etc from drop down menus. offer presets for casuals who cant team build.
Wolfey is based fr
(Also, this is what im a blisy has been saying for at least 3 years)
I can practically hear Verlisify pissing themselves rn
You did a really good job being impartial about a condition that's affecting people's time and money. From someone who doesn't game competitively, you were succinct and lucid.
If you get any flak for the things you said, it means you were over the target.
Considering who one of the two people is. It'll get torn apart regardless.
.
Not naming him because I don't want him getting any attention but he genuinely treats hacking like it's comparable to a criminal offense.
@@parsath_2584If its who I'm thinking your implying, man has been going on like that for about 5-6 years now
How is he inpartial when competes and hacks his pokemon in too? Thats bias right there.
Totally agree, main issue with Pokemon VGC is the massive time sink and RNG. Most of us just don’t have the time to spend months to grind 1-2 perfect mons just to go 5-5 it’s a waste of time
I’m so excited for verlis to turn this very rational and reasonable expression of opinions into a hate speech about how wolfey loves cheating
You were right.
You said it took you three hours to make your team, but that was with a ton of resource accumulation over the year. For someone with no interest in raids or someone who hasn’t played much past the main story, I imagine the grind to get every item would take much longer.
I’d definitely consider competing in Pokémon tournaments if it were more accessible. Showdown leagues are fantastic. Vgc just sounds like so much boring work though, and I doubt I’ll ever try it while there’s such a barrier.
He is being kind of disingenuous when he says it took 4 hours to make his team. Then later mentioned how he grinded when the game first came out. Not to mention he probably has a lot of saved Pokémon from over the years. It’s a really disappointing take.
I don't think I'd call it disingenuous, my guess is that it just wasn't something he was thinking about in the moment. Its easy to point out every little mistake or inaccuracy in a long video like this, but its almost impossible to say everything perfectly off the top of your head when making something like this. I have no reason to not assume positive intent there.
@@brendanthomas6671 He also has a network of players willing to help him out if he needs a specific thing. I remember one of the videos from Sw/Sh era about using Koalossal, and how he asked in his Discord if someone could get him a IV spread/nature for him, and he got it. Sure he could have easily done it himself, but having external sources at the ready to help you get is a big advantage, especially if it comes to the more troublesome mons, like Legendaries. Imagine the time and sanity save in having a group of people willing to hunt and mass reset to get the right legendary mon for you, and all you have to do is provide the specifics.
In Pokemon ROM hacks it is very common to place a NPC that pre poisons your pokemon, or one that changes your nature etc. And it's not like mechanics like these aren't available in the main pokemon games yet but there is a reasonable amount of effort behind getting mists and shards. And these items are mainly meant to help competitive players to get the most out of their pokemon and I don't understand why there is no such item vor lowering or increasing a particular IV. The problem obviously with genning is that it might insentivise players to do so because they have to give their enemies the benefit of the doubt that they might bring a genned pokemon with 0 attack IVs but you didn't and it matters because they might hit you with foul play - and that is a disadvantage. The difference in the total attack stat between 0 and 31 IVs matters substentually on foulplay dmg. But that's not even the bad thing about it. This problem just creates an unecessary stress level and dispute among players that were initially just agreeing to bring the best they can into a matchup, right? I think this problem just creates an unecessary amount of frustration and in a competitive environment I want everyone to have the same chances so they can solely compete in who is the best player and not who has the most friends to get pokemon quickly.
The issue with Worlds put me in mind of the recent Vegas Fanfest for FFXIV. It had many similarities with disorganized entry, risk of heat stroke for no good reason, wild connection issues during the challenge. God I hope this isn’t a trend.
As for the hacker issues, I 100% agree with Wolfey. It’s getting easier to build teams with every new generation but it needs to be simpler and clearer.
competitive pokemon will be much more viable (and successful) if you didnt have to build your own fking team from scratch. genuinely, how does it negatively affect the competitive scene if the players were able to build teams in a way similar to like pokemon showdown. it removes a huge amount of 'grinding' time and makes it more accessible, which in turn increases the quality of the matches and players. giving such a feature exclusively to online multiplayer pokemon would help greatly.
I know the opinion I hold is probably one of the more unpopular ones, but the easiest way to remove the most grindy elements of creating Pokémon teams in-game is to get rid of IVs altogether. Natures and EVs are enough; players shouldn’t have to deal with extra stat points they have relatively little control over.
@@campber9908 yeah I agree, every player has to breed for max IVs anyway, might as well give all Pokemon max IVs in multiplayer (or remove IVs). on the other hand, I do like it as part of the regular game cause it adds a bit of individuality to every mon you catch, and just yknow makes it a tad more personal
Remember, Game Freak and Nintendo want you to actually PLAY their games. If you want to play matches with just auto-generated Pokemon like on Showdown, use Showdown. You already have a program for it. But when you sit here and agree to multiple agreements to not cheat (Game Freak's not hacking their game, Nintendo's not cheating while playing with others, and Play! Pokemon's not cheating at events), you should probably NOT CHEAT!
There is nowhere near enough education in the competitive community that this 'grind' they think they're skipping by genning Pokemon pretty much doesn't exist anymore. You can have a competitive ready pokemon now in under 5 minutes. If THAT is too much time investment for you, I don't know what to say. Let me run you through the steps:
1) Catch any pokemon
2) Spam exp candies (you should have a lot by playing the game) on it to get it to at least level 50
3) Buy bottle caps (yes you can buy them) to individually max the IVs you want with Hyper Training
3) Use a nature mint (you can buy them) to give it the nature you want
4) Use a combination of vitamins (10 EVs) and feathers (1 EV) to tailor EVs to exactly what you want
5) Use an ability capsule (plentiful from raids) or patch (rarer, but still common enough from raids) if needed
6) Relearn moves, pass egg moves with picnics (no need to breed) and use whatever TMs you need
7) Buy the item you need from the store with money (no BP grind needed)
Your Pokemon is done. Stop whining. Stop cheating. I know some will complain about NEEDING 0 Attack IVs but you don't technically NEED that. Zero speed is a little more important, but guess what: If you want, you can add that onto the process and make step one breeding the Pokemon with a Ditto with the 0 atk or speed stat that you need. That isn't hard either. 100% pass down rate with the corresponding power item. The rest of the IVs are irrelevant since you can max what you want with hyper training. If you need a 0 atk and 0 speed... little more luck involved, but as someone who has bred hundreds of legal 6IV pokemon, it's certainly not impossible, I'll tell you that.
This isn't the age of hidden power. You don't need your IVs to be weird specific numbers. It isn't super complicated anymore. It's all been very streamlined and anyone still genning Pokemon at this point is a sad little person who shouldn't be involved in this scene. They're incurably lazy people who just want to spend all day in simulations and not play the actual game except when there's a prize involved.
You know who is already cookin up a spicy video twisting wolfes words i already know 😂
I’m going to say a certain troll that has beef with Wolfey for seven years now.
As someone who’s followed your career for multiple years, I understand, appreciate, and agree with your takes. Well spoken.
A friend of mine actually did the math for how long, on average, it would take to catch a 0 atk 0 speed enamorus, and it turned out to be over 3500 hours, and thats if you play all of your resets at current PLA Any% World Record pace. Its insane
I’m a math major; mind if I ask how your friend arrive at that EV?
@@CaprielleHarmonyif each stat has 31 possible iv (is that right? Don’t quote me) and each value is equally likely and each stat is determined independently, then 31(31) = 961. If WR pace is 3:45, then 961(3.75) = 3603.75. Idk the game enough to know if those assumptions are true, but that would check out with your friends result.
@@CaprielleHarmonymost legendaries have guaranteed Iv’s. Which is to say, have 3-5 IV’s at max. Farming for not only a roll where 2 specific stats arnt maxed, but also roll a 1 in 31 chance twice
Im guessing that your friend ignored the fact that the IV can be either 0 or 1 for both stats which makes the odds significantly more likely than whatever he calculated
@@sgvideo17 IVs can be 0-31 which is 32 possible numbers, and for minimum stats it can be 0 or 1 or really its a 1/16 chance per stat
Sudden death doesn’t belong in Pokémon. I think worlds this year shows that the “higher ups” did not care about the players, just the “event”. Because in their mind, all the players don’t ultimately matter, compared to the marketing of the event
The accessibility thing was even a problem last gen where you had to play through the entire game plus crown tundra if you wanted to use the other Calyrex. Not to mention resetting for 0 speed on Ice Rider and 0 attack on Shadow Rider.
People complaining about basic mechanics that have practically been in the game since gen 1 are ridiculous. Oh no, this Pokemon isn't accessible because I have to play the game!
@@epmcgee get a job
Wolfe, you're a good guy. Nuance was had + multiple angles were given the benefit of the doubt. I really hope the clippers don't beat ya down.