You should definitely consider doing more reviews because this was elegantly written and produced and also felt like ''your own style'' of handling things. I really enjoyed this.
And in case anyone of you are beyond mentally crazy, beware the Double Hibachi fight on the second loop on the death label. Only 7 people worldwide beat that double boss over the course of its release.
@@hazylevels I remember the first dude to clear it also gave an interview way back when about what it took for him to clear the challenge that was really interesting.
a day later and i'm still thinking about this awesome review! i feel like so many shmup-heads underplay the importance of "vibe"/narrative in the genre or else treat it as totally superfluous - as if shmups are only worth considering as loud unfriendly toys, not as works of art! hope you're able to make many more of these videos, i really appreciate your approach and perspective! (ps: also loved the seven samurai/tokyo story gag 😭)
Thanks so much for your comment! For me, shmups are very much a holistic experience. Gameplay is extremely important, of course, but so is visual design, music, mood etc. Only when everything aligns do you get something truly special. (Ps. Happy to hear you liked that bit 💛)
hard agree. i've gained a huge appreciation for the 2.5D shmups like Souky, Einhander, and Ikaruga because they do an amazing job of storytelling as you progress through a stage. Einhander, in particular, has immaculate vibes with its vibrant colors and environmental setpieces.
What makes DOJ the GOAT of donpachi series: 1. First game in the serie that has perfect level design, which allows players to perfectly chain every stage from the start to the end all the way. 2. Introduced a brand new hyper system, which is great for both beginners and scorers. Beginners use it for surviving, meanwhile veterans hunt for higher combos. 3. All boss fights are doable with different resources in stock, while at very high difficulty. Hyper gauge, hyper stocks, bomb stocks all lead to a different boss fight strategy 4. Softcore 2nd loop requirement. Either using no more than 2 bombs, die no more than 2 times, or do 3 perfect bee collects will unlock 2nd loop automatically. The cons Way too harsh 2nd loop difficulty, starting with 0 (ZERO) life and NO continue allowed, which makes the famous Stage 2-1 leaderboard meme. All your 20 mins spent in 1st loop are ruined immediately
It's nice to see that shmups still have a niche online, despite them being completely unknown nowadays. I got into them relatively recently and the atmosphere, music, tension in the gameplay is just so engrossing...plus they're fun to show to people irl as a flex. But I see more videos being made about them now, including this video which is quite good, which makes me happy Daioujou is wonderfully unique and I think Ketsui is a contender for best designed game ever, and I listen to their soundtracks regularly. They're just so cool!
I haven't been playing shmups seriously for that long, either (got my first Cave clear around a year and a half ago). I feel like they'll remain forever niche - but also timeless! The best ones, like Daioujou and Ketsui, could be released today with only slight alterations to their core.
idk if i'd call doj a masterpiece. it's a good game for sure but it has some problems that admittedly only really matter at the highest levels of play. it has loops which are cringe. hibachi sucks cause he can either be free or impossible depending on your hyper setup. the best way to beat him discourages dodging which completely goes against the fundamentals of the game. i also find the bosses lacking: byakko is super random and so is seiryu's 2nd pattern. kouryuu's 2nd is practically impossible and his 3rd can randomly wall. hachi's 2nd also likes to create impossible situations. though in fairness pretty much every shmup has bad boss fights. stage 4 is inconsistent to full chain thanks to midboss and rails. this game also suffers from ikeda syndrome where you have to nmnb most of the game or your score tanks which makes no sense in a game with plenty of resource checks. i have no idea why he hates bombing only to add terrible bosses with impossible patterns dangun is the real masterpiece but unfortunately it gets overlooked cause it's not bullet hell. it's funny you say doj can take some time to appreciate cause i've had the opposite experience: i instantly fell in love with doj while dangun initially seemed cruel doj may not be my favourite these days but it remains the longest time i've ever spent on a challenge. i decided i'd no miss up to hibachi starting from 2-1 which took a whole year. it was a hell of a journey that i'll never forget: an experience far more meaningful than i could get from any other genre. anyone can do anything with enough time and effort, and no matter how bad it gets or how grim it seems, it'll all be worth it in the end
I don't disagree with many of your criticisms, but I guess they just don't bring the game down too much for me. It may be in part because I haven't gone for a 2-ALL or super high scores, but I think it's expected that most games get pretty punishing once you get to the highest challenges. And then little flaws that most people don't even notice get magnified, which is how you get those "this game sux" Steam reviews with 2000 hours of playtime. So yeah, Daioujou definitely isn't perfect, but for me, it's the shmup that gets the most right at the same time (fundamentals, ambition, stage/boss design, scoring depth, music, atmosphere and so on). I'm okay with calling both Daioujou and Dangun masterpieces, just of very different kind :)
Now that i'm starting to loop the game i'm starting to notice the flaws you mentioned even more, and i can do nothing but agree with you. Although these points do not bring me down the game for me, it is a pity that common players blindly think that this game is a masterpiece and that it is always in high tier list, even though it is not exactly like that. I will still love DOJ, but i know that is far from perfect, for me the best Bullethells are Ketsui and StellaVanity Amazing critique, cheers
I don't think the 2-loop ddp games would have nearly as much staying power for high level players without 2 loops, the games are very consistency based with optimization not mattering much at all relative to chaining/nmnb/good hyper routing, so once you get all that down in a single run all you could really do is try to improve your 1.1b score by a couple million at a time through slightly better hit optimization. Having to do 2 loops turns it into a much much greater consistency test which is extremely extremely hard to get a ideal run of, and both loops focus on different aspects of the difficulty which should make it so that it doesn't feel repetitive (loop 1 harder chaining, loop 2 harder survival). Games like ketsui (although without empty locking maybe not) and progear would probably function perfectly fine as 1 loop games since they have much more difficult and much more meaningful optimization compared to ddp series, although ketsui loop 2 is basically a completely different game from loop 1 in a score run so I still think it would be a huge loss. Progear loop 2 also seems to play quite differently assuming you nmnb'ed loop 1 at least but i've barely played it's L2. Don't really care for the survival perfectionism much in cave either (there is the upside of it making things more tense but I don't think its really worth the awful balancing and annoyance generally) but considering in doj that breaking chains, missing a bee, and messing up the hyper gauge (if it leads to chainbreak/death) can also be very very punishing, it makes it seem sort of balanced in a weird way, and also contributes heavily to the consistency test aspect. Also I believe in both wl/bl perfect max bonus is less than 1/5th of the total wr scores vs original ddp having it be around 1/2.7th's of the top scores without stage 6 score glitch, which means its still important but not nearly as brutal. Having a couple unfair rng spots seems pretty hard to avoid without just completely removing rng patterns from a game or just making the patterns all really easy, which I don't think is worth it, although it does make the perfectionist design more questionable. Do agree about hibachi though, all 3 of the bosses in stage 2-5 are just really boring and really stupid honestly, although I like the rest of the bosses for the most part. Also not really a fan of the consistency test style, I vastly prefer a higher focus on optimization but that's a personal preference thing it seems considering how popular ddp is lol.
@@Magolor9000 hate loops cause i like my games to be short and sweet. i already can't play dangun for more than 2 hours and that game's only 17 minutes. i'm sure there's weirdos out there that appreciate the endurance test but fortunately i'm not one of them. though i'll admit i don't get much out of caravans which are too short to feel like a journey. 15-20 minutes is the sweet spot for me if i made a doj arrange i'd combine the harder survival of loop 2 with the tighter chaining of loop 1 but let the player keep their chain and hypers even upon death or bombing like in dangun. i'd also remove all survival related bonuses. would it be balanced or any fun at all? no idea ketsui could've done it like mushi where loop 1 is original, omote is maniac and ura is ultra. if anything the loops playing so differently only adds to the justification of difficulty modes over loops. also doesn't help that you have to nmnb to even see ura, and this is in the same game with cinderella so lol i'd say dangun has hard bosses that are random but not to the point of unfairness. well, hard if you're an idiot like me who plays uotaro and has to nmnb. anyways i don't think unfair rng is a necessary evil but regardless i wouldn't complain if the game was like garegga which is random af but doesn't force you to play perfectly don't care for optimisation cause i'm not going for wr which is why chaining is great cause i can get close to wr and pretend to be almost as good xd
@@BamdTheBamdI dont like loops and long shmups yet I like Hellsinker very much(yeah the game takes almost 50 mins to 1cc). I guess I am a weirdo, hahaha.
This was great! Really stylish video and I love how much of your personality comes through:) I never understood the appeal of DDP DOJ, only it’s reputation. I’m really excited for the M2 port now! I also appreciate the criticism.. Cave games seem to be something sacred cows and you never hear much about the flaws from an experienced player, even if it’s subjective.
Thanks a lot Spiders, really appreciate that! I obviously love Cave games, but none of them are perfect and even Daiouoju annoys me from time to time, ha :) I also understand that it's not to everybody's tastes, just like for me it's hard to get into a lot of classic shmups. But I think it's at least worth trying for anyone who is even a little into bullet hell.
This was a fantastic video. I especially loved the part where you talked about daioujou development being Caves Final Fantasy. Very true if you read their history and what happened after DDP II and IGM. Great presentation
Another note of Ketsui and DOJ being related, both their soundtracks were released in a double pack with the Ketsui Ps3 port :) I personally like Ketsui more than DOJ, but both are pretty close to perfect BulletHell games. I like plenty of other Cave games but DOJ and Ketsui are in leagues all their own
Dodonpachi is the sub sub niche for damnmaku games! outside Asia is pratically unknow! my short story with this game begins in 2012 when a had a Ps2 (unlocked) and by downloading some games i have discovered this state of art. in that time i was shocked with a game that punish your lack of ability and was that feel of emptyness in my soul that cause me to learn this genre through DDP DAI OU JOU. This game is about try and failure, is like real life were you fail more than you gain or achieve somethig. Keep coming back even after a brutal failure! thats how you must treat the life in kind. Very nice review, could not use better words to talk about this masterpiece.
Thanks for sharing your story! I got into bullet hell through the original DDP, which gave me a similar shock with it's difficulty. I couldn't understand how anyone was supposed to be able to play it. With Daioujou, I feel like Cave managed to weave the idea "failing forward" into the atmosphere of the game. We fail all the time in life and that's okay. It's just life. And so with games, too. To me it's a very optimistic outlook, even though the initial reaction is shock and frustration.
Finally decided to watch this and it's probably the best shmup review I've seen on TH-cam, you articulated your passion for the game perfectly yet still mentioned some criticism to keep it honest. Brilliant!
I really love the content you are making here. Calm and insightful, you have a gift both talking about and playing these games. I have been thinking about and dabbling with shmups on and off for years and finally think i’m going to give Cave games some more investment. You perfectly capture the feeling of reaching level 3 in one of these games and being just crushed as a novice player. I pre-ordered DDP DOJ for PS4 and are going to try not to be too hard on myself failing over and over 😅. Thank you. Are you from Sweden or Norway by any chance? Dialect kind of sounds like Swedish. Keep it up. R /Sweden
Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it! M2 ports are really good for these games, because if the arcade difficulty is too much, you can always play the gentler modes, like super easy, arrange or arcade challenge (which divides the game into short sections you can complete one by one). So if you get that level 3 agony, just keep in mind there's other ways to explore the game than just by banging your head against it 😸 and I'm from Finland, so your guess was very close!
Another video that's making me enjoy more my DDP, thank you very much! Silly question, about the thumbnail. Is that an A3 size frame with a A4 picture? Thx for your great content!
Watching this video games makes me both sad and happy. Sad that companies like Cave and Treasure were never able to capture a large audience for their games when they deserved so much better than many companies that put out absolute soulless garbage. Cave was the last of an era that didn’t hold players hands but trusted them to learn the game. But on the other, we can be happy they existed. Happy that they never compromised their vision of great hardcore action games in order to appeal to a bigger audience and that we have M2 to remind us of how amazing these games are.
Thanks for writing. A mix of sadness and happiness is how I feel about this as well. It's kind of a minor miracle we got as many games by Cave (or similar studios) as we did, and it's another miracle that we are getting these M2 ports. I'm grateful that we have all this stuff to play, even though the golden era is long gone.
Preordered the game digitally, I've been playing the game on breaks at work and god, this game rules. Been wanting to play it for like 8 years now (I don't do ROMs much)
Great video. I'm not a big fan of Cave personally (compared to Taito and others) but I'm interested in their current resurgence and why people love them.
Glad you enjoyed it, even though Cave isn't your thing. I want to put some playtime into Taito shmups next year, I've only dabbled in Darius & Ray series :)
I just wanted to say, I really enjoyed this video especially as someone who doesn't really like DOJ. I haven't been able to click with it (I've got white label on PS2) and I find the chaining system very restrictive and memorization-heavy. But this video kind of gives me more inspiration to give it another go when the port drops. I doubt it will ever usurp my favourite shmups (i'm more of a Taito guy than a Cave guy), but there is something compelling about the game on its own that justifies the reverence it holds in the shmup community and I do want to experience it. I also really appreciate how you go into all elements of the game, especially the aesthetic appeal. "Failure is much more common both in shmups and in life. And thus, we must find meaning in our struggles and our failings." ^I could not have said that any better myself. That is the core of shooting games!
Thanks so much for this comment! We often just talk broadly about shmups, but it's actually a pretty diverse genre and it's okay not to like every single game that is hold in high regard. Some people adore Toaplan, but I feel like I'm losing my mind every time I try to play their stuff :) that said, I do think there is merit in giving esteemed games a new chance from time to time. It took me forever to warm to Garegga, but I really love it now. Sometimes we don't ever end up liking a certain game, but we can learn to understand it (and the whole genre) a little better. It made me really happy that you picked out that particular quote from the video. I guess Daioujou might be my favorite shmup because for me it encapsulates what is, as you said, "the core of shooting games". It's not only about gameplay, but also about a certain mood and message. By the way, funny that you mention being a Taito guy, because I've been thinking of putting some time into Darius and Ray games (I've tried some of them out of course, but haven't really gone deep). Any other Taito titles you recommend checking out?
@@hazylevels very true! I find R-Type super frustrating but each time I come back to it I do feel like I learn something new about why it is loved. Same for (most) Toaplan titles. As for Taito stuff, you can't go wrong with Darius Gaiden and RayForce, but I'd also recommend looking into Gun Frontier and Metal Black. They are somewhat flawed games, but incredibly interesting, especially in terms of the overall experience (art, music, mechanics, story). I've got guides for a decent number of Taito games on my channel, too!
It's funny, the 2000s games I play now are almost completely different from the games I played during the actual 2000s. It's like discovering an alternate reality.
Great review! Despite playing a lot of DDP and DFK I have never really played DOJ, and it paid off because I am looking forward to absolutely thrashing the new port (playing it a lot, not necessarily being successful!)
Bravo, this was exceedingly well done. Excellent thoughts that flowed naturally creating a larger encompassing perspective, with plenty of worthwhile tangential ideas that were delightful and added to the overall message. Fantastic editing and really well spoken script. You're a really interesting human which gives you a unique charisma. I know how hard these videos can be to make, keep it up, they're well worth it and excellent contributions to the community!
This game is a masterpiece gameplay-wise, aesthetically and musically. I really hope that the PS4/Switch release includes an arrange, despite WL and BL being infinitely replayable.
@@hazylevels That sounds awesome! I haven't been keeping up with the announcements due to their inaccessible nature (I'm 100% gaijin and I'm too lazy to look for translations), but an official release of DOJ was an instant preorder for me, with or without arranges. Great video, btw, cool to see STG appreciation here in the Nordic region :)
This is an amazingly produced video! I have never really played a bullet hell extensively, but this game keeps coming on my feed every once in awhile and looks so interesting with its vibe compared to a lot of other shmups I see. I just don't know if its worth the money for me because im so used to modern game design and get bored rather quickly :(
Thanks for watching! This is a somewhat slow burn of a game, so it's hard to know whether to recommend it in your case. I will say though that the new M2 port has a mode called Arcade Challenge which divides the game into sections you need to complete one by one. It kinda turns the game into something like Celeste where you have a campaign of bite-sized challenges you can restart instantly (instead of doing full runs). So it gives the game a slight modern twist :) also, you can always check out the game on Mame and then buy the port if you enjoy it.
Ha, it is Waterworld, nice catch 😌 enjoy the game! And be sure to try the alternate modes if you're new to the genre, as the main game can seem insurmountable at first.
Good coverage of DOJ. I like it! I think it's worth mentioning that since DOJ, CAVE got addicted with the Hyper formula to this very day. Since DOJ, only a handfful of CAVE shmups don't have the secondary resource. Most of them have Hyper in one way or another like Espgaluda I and II, Akai Katana, Deathsmiles I and II, and subsequent DDP games. Interestingly enough, the Yagawa CAVE shmups don't use Hypers like Ibara, Pink Sweets and Muchi Muchi Pork.
I‘ve been playing and loving this gem on my iPhone (and I wonder, if this version is based on black or white label). And while initially prefering Resurrection, DaiOuJou grew on me, and if I‘m in the mood for a Cave shmup, I always end up playing this one now. Definitely also one of my all-time favorite shmups out there. Fantastic review!
That's cool, I would like to try out the mobile port, but sadly I'm only on Android over here. Glad you're enjoying the game and thanks for checking out the review!
I'm new to shmups, ended up playing them on my MiSTeR FPGA when I was trying out arcade games and came across DDP. I don't know what was so attractive to me about it, but I played a lot even though I sucked. I wanted to play SDOJ because I thought the ships and the music was the best I saw, bought a 360 and modded it to play it. Then played black label DOJ. I think I found the most interesting game of all. Got it now on my Nintendo switch And I am Super stocked by how good replayability wise is this game. I suck, I'm still on the 3rd stage and get killed by stray bullets even on stage 1 but the game is really fun. I hope I can get good enough to beat it one day.
Thanks for sharing! DOJ is a step up in difficulty from DDP, and SDOJ is a big step up in difficulty from DOJ :) But all three games are awesome in their own ways. Best of luck on your Dodonpachi journey, if you keep on playing you can't help but improve.
Amazing break down and deep dive into what makes this such a great game! I really enjoyed your attention to detail! Not to mention you certainly pointed out several things i never knew about the game before! Awesome work!
As a fan of CAVE and shumps in general, this video is like a gift, incredible work, it would be great a video of this same quality talking about ketsui. PS: sorry for my poor english
@@dedecoVGMDJ I still haven’t 1CCed any CAVE games since I started shmupping a couple years ago, they’re hard! But we both know the music is always fire! Love your mixes bro 😁
It's called Boku no Natsuyasumi and it's absolutely wonderful! The original is only in Japanese, but Boku 2 (which is very similar) got a fan translation just recently. I haven't played the English version myself, but the translator's other works have been really good. Here's a link to it: www.patreon.com/posts/boku-no-2-patch-92070798
28:04 bzzzzzzz pew pew pew pew. Sorry for doing random comment like that. Sometimes I pick up toys and do sound effects with them just to turn myself into a fly that shoots laser or a dragon that breaths fire.
I think it's great! Love the theming, slowdown mechanic, final boss etc. It's also a good showcase for how danmaku games don't always need to be super difficult to be satisfying. Only the graphics and music feel a little unpolished to me. Is it a favorite of yours?
@hazylevels it is! It's the first cave game I played, after coming from danmaku unlimited 3. I'm pretty casual in my shmupping. I don't practice levels, but I can get it done in 9 credits. Actually, I feel cursed because I almost always do it in exactly 9. It's weird, too, because how I do in the first 4 levels will fluxiate, but I almost always either make up for it or do just worse enough to get 9 credits in the end. Once, oooonce, I got 8. I think I may start making save states and practicing.
As long as you enjoy playing, doesn't really matter how many credits you need :) I need to check out Dan 3 at some point, I've heard good things about it.
It's only on the Japanese PSN Store, sadly. Google a guide on how to make a Japanese account and buy some PSN Yen cards from Play-Asia to pay for the game. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you've done it you can just play the game normally + buying more exclusive Japanese games becomes a breeze. You can also purchase a physical copy online, because afaik PS4 games have no region locking. Again, Play-Asia is a reliable retailer for this. Physical is pricier, though.
@@hazylevels Thanks for the answer. Do you think it is a good game to get into the genre? Or do you recommend others that are easier to access? Thanks again :) Great video BTW!
As much as I love Daioujou, it might be too much if you're just getting into bullet hell. But if you have a PC or Switch, I whole-heartedly recommend Dodonpachi Resurrection! It has a nicely balanced novice mode that is forgiving without skipping out on the bullets :) It's also cheaper and can be bought without any Japanese account shenanigans.@@glass12
You should definitely consider doing more reviews because this was elegantly written and produced and also felt like ''your own style'' of handling things. I really enjoyed this.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's very interesting and a pure joy to watch and listen.
And in case anyone of you are beyond mentally crazy, beware the Double Hibachi fight on the second loop on the death label. Only 7 people worldwide beat that double boss over the course of its release.
From what I understand, it took seven years for someone to clear Death Label for the first time 😵💫
I have known that before.
@@hazylevels I remember the first dude to clear it also gave an interview way back when about what it took for him to clear the challenge that was really interesting.
a day later and i'm still thinking about this awesome review! i feel like so many shmup-heads underplay the importance of "vibe"/narrative in the genre or else treat it as totally superfluous - as if shmups are only worth considering as loud unfriendly toys, not as works of art! hope you're able to make many more of these videos, i really appreciate your approach and perspective! (ps: also loved the seven samurai/tokyo story gag 😭)
Thanks so much for your comment! For me, shmups are very much a holistic experience. Gameplay is extremely important, of course, but so is visual design, music, mood etc. Only when everything aligns do you get something truly special. (Ps. Happy to hear you liked that bit 💛)
"as if shmups are only worth considering as loud unfriendly toys, not as works of art!"
Dang, this is a powerful statement.
hard agree. i've gained a huge appreciation for the 2.5D shmups like Souky, Einhander, and Ikaruga because they do an amazing job of storytelling as you progress through a stage. Einhander, in particular, has immaculate vibes with its vibrant colors and environmental setpieces.
What makes DOJ the GOAT of donpachi series:
1. First game in the serie that has perfect level design, which allows players to perfectly chain every stage from the start to the end all the way.
2. Introduced a brand new hyper system, which is great for both beginners and scorers. Beginners use it for surviving, meanwhile veterans hunt for higher combos.
3. All boss fights are doable with different resources in stock, while at very high difficulty. Hyper gauge, hyper stocks, bomb stocks all lead to a different boss fight strategy
4. Softcore 2nd loop requirement. Either using no more than 2 bombs, die no more than 2 times, or do 3 perfect bee collects will unlock 2nd loop automatically.
The cons
Way too harsh 2nd loop difficulty, starting with 0 (ZERO) life and NO continue allowed, which makes the famous Stage 2-1 leaderboard meme. All your 20 mins spent in 1st loop are ruined immediately
Yes! It's not perfect by any means, but it just gets so much right and is hugely replayable with all that chaining, hyper setups, bosses etc.
It's nice to see that shmups still have a niche online, despite them being completely unknown nowadays. I got into them relatively recently and the atmosphere, music, tension in the gameplay is just so engrossing...plus they're fun to show to people irl as a flex. But I see more videos being made about them now, including this video which is quite good, which makes me happy
Daioujou is wonderfully unique and I think Ketsui is a contender for best designed game ever, and I listen to their soundtracks regularly. They're just so cool!
I haven't been playing shmups seriously for that long, either (got my first Cave clear around a year and a half ago). I feel like they'll remain forever niche - but also timeless! The best ones, like Daioujou and Ketsui, could be released today with only slight alterations to their core.
I doubt I'll ever watch, or read a better review and analysis on DOJ. Very well done. Thank you for uploading it.
Thanks for watching and leaving such a kind comment!
What a wonderful review. Provides a lot of context and things to think about prior to the M2 release. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
idk if i'd call doj a masterpiece. it's a good game for sure but it has some problems that admittedly only really matter at the highest levels of play. it has loops which are cringe. hibachi sucks cause he can either be free or impossible depending on your hyper setup. the best way to beat him discourages dodging which completely goes against the fundamentals of the game. i also find the bosses lacking: byakko is super random and so is seiryu's 2nd pattern. kouryuu's 2nd is practically impossible and his 3rd can randomly wall. hachi's 2nd also likes to create impossible situations. though in fairness pretty much every shmup has bad boss fights. stage 4 is inconsistent to full chain thanks to midboss and rails. this game also suffers from ikeda syndrome where you have to nmnb most of the game or your score tanks which makes no sense in a game with plenty of resource checks. i have no idea why he hates bombing only to add terrible bosses with impossible patterns
dangun is the real masterpiece but unfortunately it gets overlooked cause it's not bullet hell. it's funny you say doj can take some time to appreciate cause i've had the opposite experience: i instantly fell in love with doj while dangun initially seemed cruel
doj may not be my favourite these days but it remains the longest time i've ever spent on a challenge. i decided i'd no miss up to hibachi starting from 2-1 which took a whole year. it was a hell of a journey that i'll never forget: an experience far more meaningful than i could get from any other genre. anyone can do anything with enough time and effort, and no matter how bad it gets or how grim it seems, it'll all be worth it in the end
I don't disagree with many of your criticisms, but I guess they just don't bring the game down too much for me. It may be in part because I haven't gone for a 2-ALL or super high scores, but I think it's expected that most games get pretty punishing once you get to the highest challenges. And then little flaws that most people don't even notice get magnified, which is how you get those "this game sux" Steam reviews with 2000 hours of playtime.
So yeah, Daioujou definitely isn't perfect, but for me, it's the shmup that gets the most right at the same time (fundamentals, ambition, stage/boss design, scoring depth, music, atmosphere and so on). I'm okay with calling both Daioujou and Dangun masterpieces, just of very different kind :)
Now that i'm starting to loop the game i'm starting to notice the flaws you mentioned even more, and i can do nothing but agree with you. Although these points do not bring me down the game for me, it is a pity that common players blindly think that this game is a masterpiece and that it is always in high tier list, even though it is not exactly like that.
I will still love DOJ, but i know that is far from perfect, for me the best Bullethells are Ketsui and StellaVanity
Amazing critique, cheers
I don't think the 2-loop ddp games would have nearly as much staying power for high level players without 2 loops, the games are very consistency based with optimization not mattering much at all relative to chaining/nmnb/good hyper routing, so once you get all that down in a single run all you could really do is try to improve your 1.1b score by a couple million at a time through slightly better hit optimization. Having to do 2 loops turns it into a much much greater consistency test which is extremely extremely hard to get a ideal run of, and both loops focus on different aspects of the difficulty which should make it so that it doesn't feel repetitive (loop 1 harder chaining, loop 2 harder survival).
Games like ketsui (although without empty locking maybe not) and progear would probably function perfectly fine as 1 loop games since they have much more difficult and much more meaningful optimization compared to ddp series, although ketsui loop 2 is basically a completely different game from loop 1 in a score run so I still think it would be a huge loss. Progear loop 2 also seems to play quite differently assuming you nmnb'ed loop 1 at least but i've barely played it's L2.
Don't really care for the survival perfectionism much in cave either (there is the upside of it making things more tense but I don't think its really worth the awful balancing and annoyance generally) but considering in doj that breaking chains, missing a bee, and messing up the hyper gauge (if it leads to chainbreak/death) can also be very very punishing, it makes it seem sort of balanced in a weird way, and also contributes heavily to the consistency test aspect. Also I believe in both wl/bl perfect max bonus is less than 1/5th of the total wr scores vs original ddp having it be around 1/2.7th's of the top scores without stage 6 score glitch, which means its still important but not nearly as brutal.
Having a couple unfair rng spots seems pretty hard to avoid without just completely removing rng patterns from a game or just making the patterns all really easy, which I don't think is worth it, although it does make the perfectionist design more questionable.
Do agree about hibachi though, all 3 of the bosses in stage 2-5 are just really boring and really stupid honestly, although I like the rest of the bosses for the most part.
Also not really a fan of the consistency test style, I vastly prefer a higher focus on optimization but that's a personal preference thing it seems considering how popular ddp is lol.
@@Magolor9000 hate loops cause i like my games to be short and sweet. i already can't play dangun for more than 2 hours and that game's only 17 minutes. i'm sure there's weirdos out there that appreciate the endurance test but fortunately i'm not one of them. though i'll admit i don't get much out of caravans which are too short to feel like a journey. 15-20 minutes is the sweet spot for me
if i made a doj arrange i'd combine the harder survival of loop 2 with the tighter chaining of loop 1 but let the player keep their chain and hypers even upon death or bombing like in dangun. i'd also remove all survival related bonuses. would it be balanced or any fun at all? no idea
ketsui could've done it like mushi where loop 1 is original, omote is maniac and ura is ultra. if anything the loops playing so differently only adds to the justification of difficulty modes over loops. also doesn't help that you have to nmnb to even see ura, and this is in the same game with cinderella so lol
i'd say dangun has hard bosses that are random but not to the point of unfairness. well, hard if you're an idiot like me who plays uotaro and has to nmnb. anyways i don't think unfair rng is a necessary evil but regardless i wouldn't complain if the game was like garegga which is random af but doesn't force you to play perfectly
don't care for optimisation cause i'm not going for wr which is why chaining is great cause i can get close to wr and pretend to be almost as good xd
@@BamdTheBamdI dont like loops and long shmups yet I like Hellsinker very much(yeah the game takes almost 50 mins to 1cc). I guess I am a weirdo, hahaha.
This is the greatest love letter to daioujou... my second time watching this video...thank you!!
Hearing that makes me really happy, thanks for watching!
This was great! Really stylish video and I love how much of your personality comes through:)
I never understood the appeal of DDP DOJ, only it’s reputation. I’m really excited for the M2 port now! I also appreciate the criticism.. Cave games seem to be something sacred cows and you never hear much about the flaws from an experienced player, even if it’s subjective.
Thanks a lot Spiders, really appreciate that! I obviously love Cave games, but none of them are perfect and even Daiouoju annoys me from time to time, ha :) I also understand that it's not to everybody's tastes, just like for me it's hard to get into a lot of classic shmups. But I think it's at least worth trying for anyone who is even a little into bullet hell.
This was a fantastic video. I especially loved the part where you talked about daioujou development being Caves Final Fantasy. Very true if you read their history and what happened after DDP II and IGM.
Great presentation
Thank you, glad to hear you enjoyed the video and the FF comparison!
i have it for ps2 since 2012 but i never played it regularly. now im playing it on switch and i am finally being able to reach stage 4 with one credit
Nice, breaking through stage 3 is a major hurdle!
Another note of Ketsui and DOJ being related, both their soundtracks were released in a double pack with the Ketsui Ps3 port :) I personally like Ketsui more than DOJ, but both are pretty close to perfect BulletHell games. I like plenty of other Cave games but DOJ and Ketsui are in leagues all their own
Dodonpachi is the sub sub niche for damnmaku games! outside Asia is pratically unknow! my short story with this game begins in 2012 when a had a Ps2 (unlocked) and by downloading some games i have discovered this state of art. in that time i was shocked with a game that punish your lack of ability and was that feel of emptyness in my soul that cause me to learn this genre through DDP DAI OU JOU. This game is about try and failure, is like real life were you fail more than you gain or achieve somethig. Keep coming back even after a brutal failure! thats how you must treat the life in kind. Very nice review, could not use better words to talk about this masterpiece.
Thanks for sharing your story! I got into bullet hell through the original DDP, which gave me a similar shock with it's difficulty. I couldn't understand how anyone was supposed to be able to play it. With Daioujou, I feel like Cave managed to weave the idea "failing forward" into the atmosphere of the game. We fail all the time in life and that's okay. It's just life. And so with games, too. To me it's a very optimistic outlook, even though the initial reaction is shock and frustration.
Finally decided to watch this and it's probably the best shmup review I've seen on TH-cam, you articulated your passion for the game perfectly yet still mentioned some criticism to keep it honest. Brilliant!
Thank you, that means a lot! I really want to do more of these long-form detailed reviews, it just takes a lot of time.
I really love the content you are making here. Calm and insightful, you have a gift both talking about and playing these games. I have been thinking about and dabbling with shmups on and off for years and finally think i’m going to give Cave games some more investment. You perfectly capture the feeling of reaching level 3 in one of these games and being just crushed as a novice player. I pre-ordered DDP DOJ for PS4 and are going to try not to be too hard on myself failing over and over 😅. Thank you. Are you from Sweden or Norway by any chance? Dialect kind of sounds like Swedish. Keep it up. R /Sweden
Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it! M2 ports are really good for these games, because if the arcade difficulty is too much, you can always play the gentler modes, like super easy, arrange or arcade challenge (which divides the game into short sections you can complete one by one). So if you get that level 3 agony, just keep in mind there's other ways to explore the game than just by banging your head against it 😸 and I'm from Finland, so your guess was very close!
@@hazylevelsAhh Finland! kiitos
Another video that's making me enjoy more my DDP, thank you very much!
Silly question, about the thumbnail. Is that an A3 size frame with a A4 picture?
Thx for your great content!
Thanks for watching, glad to hear you enjoyed it! I just measured the frame and it's around 53 X 73 cm, with the poster image being 40 X 60 cm :)
@@hazylevels ❤
Watching this video games makes me both sad and happy. Sad that companies like Cave and Treasure were never able to capture a large audience for their games when they deserved so much better than many companies that put out absolute soulless garbage. Cave was the last of an era that didn’t hold players hands but trusted them to learn the game. But on the other, we can be happy they existed. Happy that they never compromised their vision of great hardcore action games in order to appeal to a bigger audience and that we have M2 to remind us of how amazing these games are.
Thanks for writing. A mix of sadness and happiness is how I feel about this as well. It's kind of a minor miracle we got as many games by Cave (or similar studios) as we did, and it's another miracle that we are getting these M2 ports. I'm grateful that we have all this stuff to play, even though the golden era is long gone.
Amazing review of DOJ, deep and interesting, thank you! Really love your channel ❤
Thank you Vinu 💛
Toujours au bon endroit Vinu 👍
@@Kaliemus Toi aussi je vois 👍😉.
Franchement sa chaine est top, c'est cool qu'il se mette au review ^^
@@VinuShmup Exactement 😉 Oui, une vue, un abonné. Ce qu’il dit est pile ce que je pensais de DD 97, Mushihimesama et DD Daifukatsu. À plus Vinu.
Preordered the game digitally, I've been playing the game on breaks at work and god, this game rules. Been wanting to play it for like 8 years now (I don't do ROMs much)
Great video. I'm not a big fan of Cave personally (compared to Taito and others) but I'm interested in their current resurgence and why people love them.
Glad you enjoyed it, even though Cave isn't your thing. I want to put some playtime into Taito shmups next year, I've only dabbled in Darius & Ray series :)
I just wanted to say, I really enjoyed this video especially as someone who doesn't really like DOJ. I haven't been able to click with it (I've got white label on PS2) and I find the chaining system very restrictive and memorization-heavy.
But this video kind of gives me more inspiration to give it another go when the port drops. I doubt it will ever usurp my favourite shmups (i'm more of a Taito guy than a Cave guy), but there is something compelling about the game on its own that justifies the reverence it holds in the shmup community and I do want to experience it. I also really appreciate how you go into all elements of the game, especially the aesthetic appeal.
"Failure is much more common both in shmups and in life. And thus, we must find meaning in our struggles and our failings."
^I could not have said that any better myself. That is the core of shooting games!
Thanks so much for this comment!
We often just talk broadly about shmups, but it's actually a pretty diverse genre and it's okay not to like every single game that is hold in high regard. Some people adore Toaplan, but I feel like I'm losing my mind every time I try to play their stuff :) that said, I do think there is merit in giving esteemed games a new chance from time to time. It took me forever to warm to Garegga, but I really love it now. Sometimes we don't ever end up liking a certain game, but we can learn to understand it (and the whole genre) a little better.
It made me really happy that you picked out that particular quote from the video. I guess Daioujou might be my favorite shmup because for me it encapsulates what is, as you said, "the core of shooting games". It's not only about gameplay, but also about a certain mood and message.
By the way, funny that you mention being a Taito guy, because I've been thinking of putting some time into Darius and Ray games (I've tried some of them out of course, but haven't really gone deep). Any other Taito titles you recommend checking out?
@@hazylevels very true! I find R-Type super frustrating but each time I come back to it I do feel like I learn something new about why it is loved. Same for (most) Toaplan titles.
As for Taito stuff, you can't go wrong with Darius Gaiden and RayForce, but I'd also recommend looking into Gun Frontier and Metal Black. They are somewhat flawed games, but incredibly interesting, especially in terms of the overall experience (art, music, mechanics, story).
I've got guides for a decent number of Taito games on my channel, too!
Thanks for the recs, I'll add Gun Frontier and Metal Black on the list. I'm all for "flawed but interesting" :) And good to know about the guides!
I REALLY miss the 2000s
It's funny, the 2000s games I play now are almost completely different from the games I played during the actual 2000s. It's like discovering an alternate reality.
Me too. It's the perfect sweet spot of technology where it's pretty advanced but not overboard like today....sigh
Great review!
Despite playing a lot of DDP and DFK I have never really played DOJ, and it paid off because I am looking forward to absolutely thrashing the new port (playing it a lot, not necessarily being successful!)
Thanks! If you've played a lot of DDP and DFK, I think you'll feel right at home with DOJ, even though it has its distinct flavor.
Great video. Are you planning to do ones for other Cave shmups?
Thanks! And yes, I'm considering it.
Bravo, this was exceedingly well done. Excellent thoughts that flowed naturally creating a larger encompassing perspective, with plenty of worthwhile tangential ideas that were delightful and added to the overall message. Fantastic editing and really well spoken script. You're a really interesting human which gives you a unique charisma. I know how hard these videos can be to make, keep it up, they're well worth it and excellent contributions to the community!
Wow, thanks for taking the time to write such a beautiful comment. I really appreciate it!
This game is a masterpiece gameplay-wise, aesthetically and musically. I really hope that the PS4/Switch release includes an arrange, despite WL and BL being infinitely replayable.
It seems like each of the three dolls is getting an arrange of some sort :)
@@hazylevels That sounds awesome! I haven't been keeping up with the announcements due to their inaccessible nature (I'm 100% gaijin and I'm too lazy to look for translations), but an official release of DOJ was an instant preorder for me, with or without arranges. Great video, btw, cool to see STG appreciation here in the Nordic region :)
This is an amazingly produced video! I have never really played a bullet hell extensively, but this game keeps coming on my feed every once in awhile and looks so interesting with its vibe compared to a lot of other shmups I see. I just don't know if its worth the money for me because im so used to modern game design and get bored rather quickly :(
Thanks for watching! This is a somewhat slow burn of a game, so it's hard to know whether to recommend it in your case. I will say though that the new M2 port has a mode called Arcade Challenge which divides the game into sections you need to complete one by one. It kinda turns the game into something like Celeste where you have a campaign of bite-sized challenges you can restart instantly (instead of doing full runs). So it gives the game a slight modern twist :) also, you can always check out the game on Mame and then buy the port if you enjoy it.
Water world snes sound track? New to shmups just bought this game - Appreciate the content!
Ha, it is Waterworld, nice catch 😌 enjoy the game! And be sure to try the alternate modes if you're new to the genre, as the main game can seem insurmountable at first.
Great video, Cave rules - I can't wait for the m2 port.
Same here! Thanks for watching.
Hi i am shmup nerd
Welcome to a shmup nerd channel :)
Real nice review.
Dodanpachi is goated. Thank you for making this. It's so well researched, informative and in depth. I love it.
Thanks a lot for watching and leaving such a nice comment!
i ordered the m2 port 🥺
i have an igs board i play on currently
i just play for survival (and the OST) ⚡️
Nice! I'm mostly a survival player, too. And gravitate towards games with great music :)
very nice review!
great video
Good coverage of DOJ. I like it!
I think it's worth mentioning that since DOJ, CAVE got addicted with the Hyper formula to this very day. Since DOJ, only a handfful of CAVE shmups don't have the secondary resource. Most of them have Hyper in one way or another like Espgaluda I and II, Akai Katana, Deathsmiles I and II, and subsequent DDP games. Interestingly enough, the Yagawa CAVE shmups don't use Hypers like Ibara, Pink Sweets and Muchi Muchi Pork.
Thanks! And good point about hypers and hyper-likes in other Cave games, I hadn't made the connection.
I‘ve been playing and loving this gem on my iPhone (and I wonder, if this version is based on black or white label). And while initially prefering Resurrection, DaiOuJou grew on me, and if I‘m in the mood for a Cave shmup, I always end up playing this one now. Definitely also one of my all-time favorite shmups out there. Fantastic review!
That's cool, I would like to try out the mobile port, but sadly I'm only on Android over here. Glad you're enjoying the game and thanks for checking out the review!
I'm new to shmups, ended up playing them on my MiSTeR FPGA when I was trying out arcade games and came across DDP.
I don't know what was so attractive to me about it, but I played a lot even though I sucked.
I wanted to play SDOJ because I thought the ships and the music was the best I saw, bought a 360 and modded it to play it.
Then played black label DOJ. I think I found the most interesting game of all. Got it now on my Nintendo switch
And I am Super stocked by how good replayability wise is this game. I suck, I'm still on the 3rd stage and get killed by stray bullets even on stage 1
but the game is really fun. I hope I can get good enough to beat it one day.
Thanks for sharing! DOJ is a step up in difficulty from DDP, and SDOJ is a big step up in difficulty from DOJ :) But all three games are awesome in their own ways. Best of luck on your Dodonpachi journey, if you keep on playing you can't help but improve.
Excellent review and, Indeed, I'm a shmup nerd (and a CAVE fan)
Amazing break down and deep dive into what makes this such a great game! I really enjoyed your attention to detail! Not to mention you certainly pointed out several things i never knew about the game before! Awesome work!
Awesome, really happy to hear you enjoyed it so much! Thank you!
This is so good! What a lovely review! I got to say I kind of feel only ok about DOJ but now I got to go back and check it out again!
Thank you Tara! Let me know if you find something new to enjoy about the game. But it's also ok to feel only ok about it :)
Well spoken, stylish presentation, thumbs up.
Beautiful review. After the lovely M2 DOJ release, I am now hoping for Ketsui on PS and Switch. Please.
Thanks for watching! Ketsui is already on Playstation, though not on Switch...
Kiva nähdä että joku suomalainen tekee näin perusteellisia shmuppivideoita!
23:55 Waterworld (SNES) OST? hell yeah lol
As a fan of CAVE and shumps in general, this video is like a gift, incredible work, it would be great a video of this same quality talking about ketsui.
PS: sorry for my poor english
Thanks, I really appreciate that! I love Ketsui, so it's something that could be interesting to cover at some point, for sure.
Bee plushie is here?! It's so cuuuute!
Mitä vittua enkö ookaan ainut shmup stan suomessa, yoo
a great review of a great game! i sure am excited for the switch/ps4 port, and hope that stuff there is based on black label mode...
Thanks for watching! And yeah, I think many of us would enjoy having extra modes based on black label... But I guess we'll find out very soon.
This was a really great deep dive into the game! I'm glad I found this channel
Thanks for watching!
This was a sexy ass review, thanks
Thoughtful and passionate -- great work!
Thanks, glad you liked it!
Beautiful review.
Thank you!
Really enjoyed this
What's that tv on the thumbnail? Looks like a thing of beauty.
Nokia Young Edition 14" and yes, it's a cutie :)
your essay is also a masterpiece:)
Very good review. One of the best review i’d seen. Thanks
Merci beaucoup!
Fantastic review of a masterpiece of a game!
Thanks!
Solid review, Great video
Thank you!
#pewpew
Thanks for the content!
Thanks for dropping by and good luck with Interstellar Sentinel :)
Rad!@@hazylevels
such a heartfelt review 💓
Heyy it’s dedeco, let’s go!
@@HieronymousLexstill wasnt able to 1cc it tho 😭
@@dedecoVGMDJ I still haven’t 1CCed any CAVE games since I started shmupping a couple years ago, they’re hard! But we both know the music is always fire! Love your mixes bro 😁
where did you get the bee plush
Just something I happened to see at a local store 🐝
Really good video!
Thank you!
What is the game that appears at 1:42 and is there an English translation of it? It looks super cute! :>
It's called Boku no Natsuyasumi and it's absolutely wonderful! The original is only in Japanese, but Boku 2 (which is very similar) got a fan translation just recently. I haven't played the English version myself, but the translator's other works have been really good. Here's a link to it: www.patreon.com/posts/boku-no-2-patch-92070798
@@hazylevels thank you!!!!!!
Very cool video!
Thanks for checking it out!
Ok
Ok
28:04 bzzzzzzz pew pew pew pew.
Sorry for doing random comment like that. Sometimes I pick up toys and do sound effects with them just to turn myself into a fly that shoots laser or a dragon that breaths fire.
I don't mind :) bzz bzz 🐝
What do you think of Espgaluda?
I think it's great! Love the theming, slowdown mechanic, final boss etc. It's also a good showcase for how danmaku games don't always need to be super difficult to be satisfying. Only the graphics and music feel a little unpolished to me. Is it a favorite of yours?
@hazylevels it is! It's the first cave game I played, after coming from danmaku unlimited 3.
I'm pretty casual in my shmupping. I don't practice levels, but I can get it done in 9 credits. Actually, I feel cursed because I almost always do it in exactly 9. It's weird, too, because how I do in the first 4 levels will fluxiate, but I almost always either make up for it or do just worse enough to get 9 credits in the end.
Once, oooonce, I got 8.
I think I may start making save states and practicing.
As long as you enjoy playing, doesn't really matter how many credits you need :) I need to check out Dan 3 at some point, I've heard good things about it.
Is this game in the PSN Store :(? I can't find it.
It's only on the Japanese PSN Store, sadly. Google a guide on how to make a Japanese account and buy some PSN Yen cards from Play-Asia to pay for the game. It may seem intimidating at first, but once you've done it you can just play the game normally + buying more exclusive Japanese games becomes a breeze.
You can also purchase a physical copy online, because afaik PS4 games have no region locking. Again, Play-Asia is a reliable retailer for this. Physical is pricier, though.
@@hazylevels Thanks for the answer. Do you think it is a good game to get into the genre? Or do you recommend others that are easier to access? Thanks again :) Great video BTW!
As much as I love Daioujou, it might be too much if you're just getting into bullet hell. But if you have a PC or Switch, I whole-heartedly recommend Dodonpachi Resurrection! It has a nicely balanced novice mode that is forgiving without skipping out on the bullets :) It's also cheaper and can be bought without any Japanese account shenanigans.@@glass12
@@hazylevels Thank you! I'll try that one then 😀
I just got this game a couple days ago and WOW it's impressive. I'm having a blast even though I'm god awful. That's how you know it's a good game
Nice, enjoy the game! Everyone's awful at it at first 🤠
" you are probably a shmup nerd" ...ahh!!! im being attacked...le sigh...guilty as charged. Btw shmup nerds r cool af.
Hyped for the M2 port! Nice to see more and more content about Daioujou
bees
🐝🐝🐝
Bzzzzzz
Your comments on sexualizing violence earned you a sub. Thank you very much