Sequential gearbox in a street car! CLUTCH or NO CLUTCH??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2024
- In this video, we describe how it is possible to use a sequential gearbox in a standard street car. Whether you want to drive fast or slow, long or short drives, the sequential gearbox will still work like a charm. We test the Toyota Yaris GR and installed is the TY7-GR sequential gearbox from Kotouc Gearboxes in many different conditions and give you real feedback about the driving experience.
You can view the gearbox here:
www.kotoucgear...
and contact me +420 725 790 769 or email info@kotoucgearboxes.com
Love that whine, never gets old unless you have to daily it. Looks like a great product for motor racing applications.
Actually, I was driving the car around for some time. I think the whine is ok. Just dont ask the wife!
@@nealmendham9649 When you get old and soft, you start noticing all these little things that annoy you. Maybe 20 years ago I wouldn't have minded, when I was driving a silvia with rock hard suspension...
Thank you for demonstrating the use of NEUTRAL and REVERSE.
I love the whining of the gears. Would love to put one in a classic mini Cooper
i love how the gears sound goddamn
The straight cut transmission sound hell yeah
Left ear gang 👂💪
My old earphone only works with right 💀💀
I like the wind noise in my right ear!
came here to say gang gang. my right ear i have tinnitus so this works out 🤣
Thanks for the video! I’ve already talked with my tuner (Acme) and I’ll be ordering on march/april…
Has it been fitted yet?
@@shogunzac it’s on, fitted. My tuner is now working on other mods and I plan to get the car back in the next few weeks
You should do also a version with helical gears so it can be a real daily.
Man I would love this for my daily STI.
Bro just build your motor and get an aftermarket valved exhaust system before getting it . I'm in Australia and thinking of getting a sequential gearbox locally and a building up a motor with the stock block . A complete billet block with internals is too expensive but luckily I live in Australia so always got other options and good tuners and builders.
3:24 i never though id get to hear an i3 sound so good
That thing sounds awesome. I want one for my GR Yaris
you are the luckiest man right now!!
Very Nice.... and tempting...the question really is whether the noise gets onto your nerves after some time. It does sound quite noisy indeed. Not sure if this is coming out from the video in particular an if the noise is less acute in real life in the car?
Seems pretty actuate compared to the other noises in the video. They are straight cut gears instead of being helical (curved/angled). When at this level of build it’s more about performance than it is about comfort.
It’s like, can I eat anchovies on my ice cream…sure you can…
Ow, my left ear
Hi, GR Yaris owner here. It is my daily driver with ocasional trackday. I have a couple of questions:
-Is it possible to fit it with hellical gears so it is quiet as a standard gearbox (or close to). While I love straight gears sound, it is just too noisy for everyday use or highway use.
-Can the last gear have a long ratio so the car is usable on highways?
-Also, I saw on the item description that the gearbox is compatible with paddleshitfers and hidraullic clutch. Do you have any plans on selling a whole kit and not just the gearbox?
Thank you!
Hi, for the gearbox to come with helical gears, there is alot more to it. I wrote also to someone else previously. Essentially all the standard synchro gearboxes with helical cut teeth all have extremely small teeth. So just changing the gear cut and not changing the tooth count on the actual gear will not give you the level of quietness you may expect. Making smaller teeth weakens the gearbox and the overall torque you can put through it. And the other point is the design of the gearbox must be different as the loads on the gears are in a different direction. So straight cut is the way to go. Honestly it isnt that bad. I think the whine is ok, but difficult to explain on a video. Best is to be in the car.
Yes the gearbox is compatible with paddle shifting. We can put a system in the car, that is quite easy. Our system is extremely fast shifting. So the best operation for the paddles is when the car is driven to its maximum. When driven slowly, the shift still is fast. It is not a Lambo or ferrari with an automatic gearbox inside. I would stick with the shift lever unless you really want to up the ante on the engine and get the car to a position where it can come more in line with the performance of the paddle shift package. So we can sell all, it is just a matter of the right race car, or the goals for the car.
@@nealmendham9649 thank you so much for the detailed response.
"...if you wanna go to the mall.."
-Sir get off the sequential 😂
Man it sounds so sweet when turned up loud but I think it has damaged my right ear which is no longer working, off to the Dr for me 😂
Need one for my Evo X....
Same. Been wanting one for years. When I get the funds I want that and Ohlins rally suspension.
WOW, that`s racing. I like the sound of the gearbox, it`s so mechanical. But, what`s the price of this epic gearbox?
guess u need to contact them, they never talk about prices
give me a call +420 725 790 769 or email info@kotoucgearboxes.com and I can fill you in.
is there a twin plate clutch that works with this box for the gr yaris? i notice xshift and kotouc don't work with them and need to shave back some of the housing to get it to work with a twin plate. only Drenth sequential seems to work with a twin plate.
Already done. Twin plate clutch can fit.
I'm considering buying one, but whats the maintenance like with regular track days? I dont quite feel like ripping it out and rebuilding it every 5000km. If it's only every 100 000+km i would be fine with that
you need to differentiate between race and road kilometers. road kilometers you can drive say 50000kms if you wish, but oil changes every 5000kms. If you want to race, then you would want to check it every race season. If you prepare a race car, you need to check the motor, brakes, suspension, clutch... the gearbox is no different. If you spend the money, you need to have a race car that is at all times in top condition and it makes sense to look after you investment.
@@nealmendham9649 Thank you for the response, I'm not a professional racing driver, so my usecase would be mostly road in the weekends, probably about 13 000km a year of spirited driving (with a lot of clutchless shifting), and about 10~ track days a year depending on the weather. It would be the universal version on a 2014 Fiesta with about 500bhp, 450nm.
Regular oil changes is no problem at all, I'd probably do it at the same time as the engine, every 3500km but it's a hobby, and I'm doing everything from my garage in my free time, so having to pull it out every year and having to do a rebuild would not be ideal.
However, what do you think would be a sensible maintenance interval with this sort of use? And what do you think annual servicing would cost in parts? I’m fine with the upfront investment, but high recurring maintenance costs would not be in line with my goals. I would think when using it in a FWD configuration with 450nm it should last plenty long when it is rated to 1200nm, but what do you think?
@@nealmendham9649what car model are you driving in this video
Thank you for answering my question I posted on another one of your videos, this demonstration was awesome. I do have a question on the 6th and 7th gear, are these two gears double overdrive when cruising at highway speeds? What is the fuel consumption when in 7th gear at highway speed? Pardon my ignorance, I'm knew to sequential gearboxes but I do love them! Awesome video!
many gear ratios are available, you can have 5/6/7 overdrive. or no overdrives at all, you choose. look on their website.
@@krusher74 Thank you!!! 💪
i want gearbox like this
Is there a way to get Helical cut gears instead of straight cut for a quieter ride?
But what’s the point in that 🤣🤣
@@xneqitx240 for a quieter ride... of course.
@@q2subzero swap a road going smg gearbox into it.
@@treeplusplus road going smg gearbox? any examples of one?
@@q2subzero e90 smg
Wooo, que precio tiene una caja de esas y ver si se le puede instalar a un vehiculo de 3 cilindros tracción trasera.
How would I go about downshifting fast like in a rally car? Clutch or no clutch? Assuming I have a strain gauge hooked up
no clutch!
Would one of your sequential gearboxes have the same longevity as a normal gearbox if used it in a daily driver? I've a 2015 Golf R manual and am tempted to fit one. I only use the car to drive between Ireland and Germany so mostly motorway (autobahn) driving.
if you are driving on the highway, then Id suggest a cooler. That will aid longevity of the gearbox parts. It is possible also that we could do 1-6 as performance, and the 7th gear extremely long for low RPMs on highway driving. We have that in our subaru R4 gearbox as well and some of those kits have now done well over 35000kms. (about 6 years driving). Regular oil change is also important and oil will play a big part. Only 75W140 oil to use. if the power of your car is not so much, then the parts will have a long life expectancy. one other technical point to consider is that the gearbox will hold 1400NM, a standard gearbox, probably around 400NM.
The interval of maintenance ?
Hi Luca, For the gearbox, there are really 2 very different levels of service control whether it be for racing or for street driving. Racing we calculate at 80% or more full throttle and servicing is required often. On the street is much different. You are not pushing the gearbox anywhere near its limits, so the main thing is lubrication. There is good splash lubrication in the gearbox there is a control screw for oil level fill. Oil should be changed every 5-8000kms maximum, depending upon when you can get the car into service. The more often and fresher the oil, the better obviously. A service control check, dropping the gearbox out, every 3 years is ok. Keep that oil fresh and use the clutch for slow driving and you will be right.
How does the transmission handle rev matching on the downshifts? Does the shift software conduct an auto blip?
You can make the throttle blip on the downshifts with our shiftbox software. Intensity and duration can be individually set up for every gear.
awesome.
What does a front engine rwd box cost? Engine puts about 500ftlbs tq through the flywheel
I need this transmission in my Forester XT
This is something I'm interested in putting on my 2020 GR Supra once I max out the standard transmission. I was curious about what kind of modification it would take to get a 3- pedal paddle-shift version of this into my car?
3 pedal paddle shift? Are you able to give me a little more details? maybe with cluth control?
@@nealmendham9649
I prefer paddles over the stick as far as sequentials are concerned, but I'm not a fan of wheel mounted clutch padels and would prefer it to be mapped to a third pedal. I wasn't sure from the video or from what I've read if that was possible with your product but I was curious as it seems like a solid transmission.
@@TheWoebegoneJackal in order to have paddle shift for a sequential you will need to add an air compressor. The paddles control a pneumatic system that shifts up and down. It’s just one more step past having a stick.
Does the IMT button still auto blip the throttle on downshift’s?
Thanks
The IMT is essentially obsolete. With our shiftbox system, we can electronically control the throttle response and the throttle blip can be setup to suit you. Ideally we can set up for a smooth throttle blip on the downshift or to come on alot harder for racing. The same is if you were to replace the engine ECU. all is completely customisable.
Awesome setup 💯🏆
Can anyone explain why there is a scraping sound while driving?
"Normal" Gearboxes are helical toothed, but sequential gearboxes are always straight toothed, so you can transfer more power to those gears, but it's very loud.
@@eLKa1288 Interesting to know, thanks 👊🏻
@@peternap82 there are a couple of things to take note with the gearbox and the whine that it makes. In all passenger cars, all teeth are made with a helical tooth. Teeth are made at an angle. this gearbox has straight cut teeth, so the teeth meshing together is a little different. The other thing is the tooth contact ratio. The teeth in our gearbox are quite big so that they can handle more power. Alot more power. And they are much wider. That means the number of teeth in contact at any one time is reduced and hence a different sound coming out of the gearbox.
Very nice gearbox, considering one for my Evo. If I wanted to downshift under 3000rpm, is it better to heel toe rev match?
no, you do not need to. you would set up electronically throttle blip for the downshift. but as per the video, if you are driving slow, then just use the clutch. I cannot forsee any race condition where you are downshifting @3000RPM.
I thought you could Rev Match these?
you can do an electronic throttle blip for any length of time and how powerful you want. all is completely fine tunable.
so i dont got to rev match with a seq gear box?
you can if you want to, however there is no need to. You can set up the throttle blip electronically and essentially the revmatch is perfect every time.
If you have to ask...🤨
Wonder if with some changes if it can fit in the new gr corolla
It should. Same engine. Cheers
These cost so much that people with a manual car would rather just sell and buy a dsg/auto. Atleast if they had a decent price tag then yh.
How’s it going? I have a 1973 Chevy Nova Hatchback. I’m adding a handbrake to my car since I’m I’m giving the car a new identity rebuilding it completely. I want to put a sequential shifter in my car, but don’t know the correct way to go about doing so. Currently I have a TH350 manual valve body transmission, with a winters performance sidewinder shifter. I’m shifting the entire time right now with no clutch. I’m open to any suggestion you have for me on going with a sequential shifter and the right transmission to go with to make it happen.
ah man, i wish i could give you some info on this one. just seen your message. I am unfamiliar with the actual products that you list. Id need to study it for some time about the manual setup and the operating functionality and I do not think I could give you an appropriate answer.
Super
Are you blipping the throttle for low speed downshifts?
yes. It is happening electronically. I have another video where we turn it up a bit so you can use it for performance when driving.
@@nealmendham9649 thanks!
@@nealmendham9649 is it possible to add autoblipper in a car without autoblipper by just remaping the ecu in sucha a way
I’ve always been confused when setting these up in the ecu with down shift throttle blips are you still ment to use the clutch or can you just go down a gear with the throttle blip alone ?
the idea of the throttle blip is to smooth out the downshifts. The main point that we need to differentiate between racing and driving on the street. completely different driving styles and that answers everything.
When racing, you want the best time. If you want to stretch the maximum performance out of the car, you need it to work electronically as well as mechanically. So finetuning the throttle blip to ensure a dogring will downshift as fast as possible and the smoothest as possible can gain alot of time on the track. you can slam on the brakes and use the engine deceleration to help with braking the car. So no clutch, strong downshift, hard brake.
But on the road, you want to enjoy the car and gearbox and essentially make parts last a long time. So use the clutch and downshift slowly. the blip can still happen, or if you have different maps you can switch, then you can turn it off. The benefit of pressing the clutch is to expand the longevity of parts.
PPG is actually streetable, with no straight cut gear whine. But i guess they might be more expensive.
you are inferring that this kotuc is not streetable when you have clearly just seen it driven easily on the street.
Hello,
Nice video! If flatshift isn’t installed, can we still change gears without clutch just by stopping the throttle and reengage it fastly?
yes definitely. That would be shifting like a classic dogbox. Quickly off the throttle, change gears and then back on the throttle. I would highly recommend the flat shift though, because if you are going for the sequential, you are 90% there and the flatshift is that exclaimation point that totally transforms the car.
Are these gear boxes available in Australia and do they fit Holden Commodore VE SS
the commodore we could potentially use our universal gearbox, but it isnt a straight fit. Id have to get a gearbox here to check and measure it for parts.
Is there a way to reduce that whining noise from the gear box?
Maybe of you isolate it with foam and noise dampenig in the engine area.
He's using straight cut gears. The whine you hear is the teeth hitting eachother. Normal gearboxes have helical cut gears. Those teeth engage and release much smoother because there are always multiple teeth engaged at the same time.
@@Laylander I know.
@@alexsalazar5161 well then you have your answer; put in a set of helical gears ;)
@@Laylander bruh, but what if I want straight cut gears but want to reduce the noise? What options would help reduce the noise? Obviously besides helical gears.
No Heal And Toe ?
not necessary. All happens electronically. much faster
@@nealmendham9649 But It Is Possible To Do It Manually
@@ChicagoStreetCourseFan possible. But unnecessary. The sequential doesn't have the synchros inside and so it is possible to downshift even without engine rev matching. Speaking from a racing point of view, you will lose too much time doing it manually.
Sequential doesn’t mean Dogbox , people confuse this all the time.
I own a H pattern straight cut dogbox , flat shift no clutch just like a semi truck.
Could i use this sequential shifter on my standard gearbox?
unfortunately not. You need to change the gearbox to have the sequential shift.
@@nealmendham9649 thank you for replying, i left an email enquiry aswell but no response
Are you at 2500rpm at 90 kph in 7th gear?? How high is your differential ratio?
We have plenty of different ratio option. Our V1 ratio will get you 93kmph @2500RPM and if you want longer, our V5 ratio will get you 101kmph,
where did you get your camera mount?
for the go pro, just the go pro suction cup and additional swivel head.
3:14
How much cost?
Hi Theo, shoot me an email info@kotoucgearboxes.com and I can provide you with complete details and options.
Do you still rev match?
I have the possibility to electronically throttle blip on the downshifts. I can switch it on or off. Rev matching is not necessary. If you are driving on the street, then I recommend to use the clutch on downshifts to keep the parts in great condition. For racing, just switch on the throttle blip. The car has our SHIFTBOX computer and this is able to make the flatshift setup or throttle blip.
@@nealmendham9649 that is really awesome.
How long does it last for street use?
2-3 weeks for disposables
as long as you change the oil every 5-8000kms, with daily road use, you can make a service every 3-4 years. Im assuming youd get around 10000kms per year driving as an every day driver.
@@nealmendham9649 how much typically service cost ?
Is clutchless downshifting possible?
absolutely possible mechanically. If racing, or driving with 100% hard braking, then ok. But if driving on the street, recommended is using the clutch to keep the dogrings and parts in good condition.
But does the software auto blip on clutchless downshifts as on all modern superbikes with sequential dog box’s?
For example if sat in 7th, could you tap down 3 gears instantly without clutch and it will rev match smoothly?
Thanks 😊
@@mikeormond7883 the gearbox in a car is completely different to a sequential in a motorbike. The only comparison you can really make is that they shift sequentially with a barrel. The torque that is applied onto a motorbike gearbox is nowhere near the same as it is in a car and therefore, different shift strategies. As the gearbox is shifted manually with the lever, essentially whatever the driver will do, the gearbox will do. To do what you suggest, you need to install a paddle system and have the everything work electronically. However, our software is able to have a throttle blip and that will blip at the percentage and time that is programmed. Shifting will be smooth and can be without clutch.
Why wouldn't somebody just have a normal manual then over this when you're still using the clutch? If you want faster shifting why not just get DCT
Less time spent thinking about the shifter and fiddling with it more time spend on steering, the road, other drivers
@@w0rkhop555 I see. I think I'd just get a dct transmission and use paddles if I wanted to manually shift, but I'd rather just leave it in drive 🤣
@@Edvard.Munchkin i think a lot of it depends on budget and how much you care about racing vs just your safety, some sequential stuff gets to like double the price of the car you put it in which is a little insane
@@w0rkhop555 indeed
Note that he's only clutching from a stop or when driving smoothly. When driving hard using the clutch is not required.
when your down shifting you still nee to clun in or clutch down or is it clutchless downshifts ? if it is clutchless what whats speeds any?
Is it possible for anyone to convert their car with an automatic tranny to sequential?
Yes
Yes, but it'll need a lot of money
yes but they are like 7-20k
it is, but you will say alot of time and money just selling the car and starting from scratch with a car that has a manual in it.
can you stall a sequential gearbox car? do you have to ease off the clutch when leaving in first gear like a manual car or can you just put it in first and drive without using the clutch ? PLEASE RESPOND 🙏🏼
Is the gear box making that whinging sound?
yes, the whine is from the gearbox.
That's how all dogboxes sound like, it's the straight-cut gears whining
if you dont want the gearbox, you can just drive everywhere in reverse for the same effect :)
it's not jerky because that's ignition timing done right, oem, it's toyota. you put foot on gas or let go, it won't jerk. not because you transmision is good, i mean it is i don't know it, but yeah it must be, like why not, but just to point out that point of "it's smooth". that's the work of tps maf and the stock management. you just have to change the injectors for another brand and it won't run the same. a lot of things involved into the fact it doesn't shake when putting or letting off gas pedal.
Man that's something you definitely can't daily, guess i need another car then🤷
Bros playing forza
If only it didn’t sound like a skill saw.
the sound doesn't have anything to do with the sequential manual, with clutch or not, that comes from straight cut gears or not
Why this type of gear doesnt be quiet
because its straight cut teeth not helical . straight cut are noisy .
Why would you need to use the clutch to shift while driving somewhat slowly but not while driving very fast? Why would the dog teeth engage differently?
the race gearbox likes to be driven hard and fast. When you drive slowly, and shift slowly, the dogrings have more of a chance to wear out quicker. So its not that you need to use the clutch, its more of a common sense thing to keep the parts in the gearbox as new as possible for as long as possible.
@@nealmendham9649: You won't keep them newer any longer either way, since newness by itself is only based on time. You might affect weather the _condition_ is more or less _like_ new, though.
But then don't the shifting mechanics push, rotate, and slide, etc. just as fast when you're _driving_ slowly vs. when you're _driving_ a lot faster (which cut-off/break-off/crossover point you never defined, BTW)?
If you _drive_ faster then you're giving those ring pegs less opportunity to line up right with their notches/holes, since some parts in there would be spinning a lot faster so that would mean that the synch. windows would close sooner in comparison (a bit differently from H-pattern syncro rings), wouldn't it? But when you move the lever forward or back on one of these, doesn't the actual click-roll-slide action happen as fast either way?
@@HelloKittyFanMan the answer is quite simple when your driving slowly you use the clutch to avoid the car shaking and make a smooth and quite transmission etc but not while driving fast you don't really care about gearbox noises and the car vibration get canceled from all the madness the car is going trough
@@HelloKittyFanMan how to define new .....basing it soley on time means from date of manufacturing? therefore the part could be old before being used. we could take it to the nth degree because metal is metal and it does corrode over time even if not used. Servicing is based on kilometers driven. And the severity of how the gearbox needs to work over those kilometers will determine the necessary servicing intervals. so we can agree on the word condition. you want parts in the best condition for the longest period of time.
Important is who is pulling the lever. quick shift is the name of the game. So with an engine cut and no clutch, the gearbox will be able to change gears smoothly. But your engine ECU does not know if you pull the lever slowly or fast. Your race car is setup to perform in a certain mechanical and electronical window. work outside of that is you can potentially cause unnecessary wear. Therefore it is important if you are not going to pull the lever consistantly fast at the required RPM etc, then it makes sense to push the clutch and shift normally.
@@salmandekkari5523: We're talking about wear, though; not that.
damn, that's priceless)
I wish the audio was better. I can't even listen to the video as usual. It sounds like I'm in a womb or something in my right ear
I can hear it fine, it is actually very good considering the gearbox whine, I heard every word he said with no problem, I think your problem is the speakers/headphones/cellphones you are watching on. Try again on a different device.
im using an earphone..When i removed the earpiece on left no sound on the right..
@@krusher74 There is no way you could convince me that you watched this video with headphones or earphones on. You'd have to be deaf to make a statement like that
either way you are the one whineing about a vidoe that will never change, i enjoyed the audio.
Actually sucks that you need clutch for it
loooove dogboxes
😩😤
Too noisy((( and too sharp for a daily car
You need to get in the car and try it. When you have a loud exhaust and an engine tune, the car after by nature is quite loud and the gearbox is really ok in the car. But you need to sit in it to get the feel of how the car drives.
@@nealmendham9649 well hope I'll try one day. Sequential gearbox is expensive
@You Tube, you are just a loud mouth. You obviously have not been in a proper race car before.
Too loud
make automatic gr yaris
Hell no. Hell. No.
WHATS THE USE OF THE CLUTCH THEN. SMH!
So you can switch gears. Are you saying rally car drivers are driving automatic cars?
@@Lam-ci3yr he just quickshifted right there look at the video
@@darthvader511 driving from a stop
@@Lam-ci3yr sequential rally cars dont use clutch to shift gears lol
you are too stupid to understand, its a simple video, and you are shouting.
Guess what: It's easier to say the years from 2010+ as, for example, "TWENTY-twenty-one" instead. Remember when you used to say 1974 as "NINETEEN-seventy-four" instead of "one thousand... [such-and-such]"? Yeah, you did it that way because it's shorter and thus easier, right? Well the same thing works in _this_ century too; imagine that! So try it today!
Back to UP SHIFT 🤣 So logically ass backwards ...
And dont say the "pull" of a high hp car keeps you from pushing forward to up shift, thats horse shit.
A Mazda cx5 has 187 hp and does not have enough momentum to pull you into your seat yet it follows the same back to up shift ....🤦🏽♂️
hi, if you would have driven a sequential gearbox, i dont think you will find any logic in your comment.
@@nealmendham9649 i dont give a shit what your opinion IS .. its ass backwards like your brain.
it is more natural to pull back to upsift
@@einolouhimo i UNDERSTAND why its pull back to up shift captian obvious ... 🤦🏽♂️ ... BUT I DON'T have to agree with it.
It goes against LOGIC which is how my brain works, unlike the others that accpet that backwards logic ...
Do you have an issue shifting from 2nd gear FORWARD to 3rd gear because of momentum or 4th FORWARD to 5th while accelerating ??
@@ACommenterOnTH-cam ofcourse you can have your opinion, and no I don't have an issue with that. G-force is not that strong but you can still feel the g-force in acceleration and deceleration wich makes this sift pattern more natural to most people
Do you guys make aftermarket sequentials for GT3 Cups? & if so would I have to swap out my driveshaft? 🥲
FIA homologated GT3?? Which make and model GT3?
@@nealmendham9649 991 GT3. Thanks for the response brother. She's street legal converted
can you stall a sequential gearbox car? do you have to ease off the clutch when leaving in first gear like a manual car or can you just put it in first and drive without using the clutch ? PLEASE RESPOND 🙏🏼
yes it is possible to stall. When taking off in first gear, you need to release the clutch foot pedal just like you would drive normally.