Once again, thank you for your direction and what to do and get injector to fire or not etc. After it stops raining, I will be back at the diagnosing and let you know what I come up with..
Hello, awesome videos these have really helped me out. Ive been dealing with a loss of spark on a 89 f250 460 tfi system. I lose spark at random anywhere between 20 seconds to 10-15 mins. Its really weird if I cycle the ignition key on off or disconnect the tfi harness (more specifically ive narrowed it down to just disconnecting the power run wire to the tfi ) it restores spark and instantly starts. I have tested 4 known good tfis (two were brand new) I checked voltages on the tfi plug and everthing checks out, two coils, a spare ecm and distributor (new pip) from a running truck and I have a good pip signal to the module, it is unaffected by having the spout in or out it dies either way and only starts after the key or disconnecting and reconnecting the tfi, the truck also throws no codes for anything currently. Ive also taken the engine wiring harness out and gone through it checking continuity and it looks fine. I was just wondering if you would have any insight or new direction to go in troubleshooting? This all started after i parked the truck for a month to change the intake gaskets. Ive also been through numerous troubleshooting guides for the tfi with my dvom and all signs point to a tfi issue i just cant fathom how disconnecting and reconnecting power fixes it let alone 4 other tfi modules having the exact same issue. Thanks again for the videos.
Try to find a genuine Motorcraft TFI module with the embossed lettering. The aftermarket modules are such junk compared to the original, which is discontinued. The PIP sensor can easily be tested with an LED test light backprobed into the top wire of the module connector while cranking. A 4 channel scope like the Picoscope is king for this, because you can capture power, ground, PIP, and coil control all at the same time, in slow motion. It is entirely possible to get multiple junk ignition modules in a row these days. They're all Chinese junk. I've seen 3 in a row bad. Try switching brands. As for the PIP sensor, the Ford Motorcraft one is best. But the new Motorcraft non-embossed lettering modules are no better than any other cheap brand now. Ford farms them out. Also be aware that all of the EEC-IV PCMs likely have bad/leaking capacitors in them, and repairing them is tricky but necessary in most cases. Open your PCM up, find the teal blue capacitors (which look like mini double A batteries), and see if there is any goop or corrosion leaking out the bottom of the capacitor between it's legs, and running down onto the board, corroding it's feet. I have a guy who can replace them if you find them bad.
I've got an 89 mustang 5.0 had it a while now. It was not strong at all when I got it , it was surging before I did some upgrades and still did after putting back together. Surging is gone now it does that bucking fords do at low speeds in 1st. You drive it has a little power to spin the wheels and falls on it face around 4,000 by 4500 bogs has only backfired during one time but bogs above 4,000. A little about the car sound bottom end checked compression installed f303 cam gt40heads and intake non egr. New fuel pump , regulator new 24lb injectors cold air intake. A new distributor autozone I need something better and will later. Good plugs and wires , new coil. I have replace left o2 was bad and map sensor as well. I know it's hard for you to fix stuff by reading people's comments. I will check those connectors in the salt and pepper shakers I think some people call them. I wish I had another car to swap some parts just to see. I truly think what ghost it has was in it when I got it. I'm starting to think computer or some shorts in wiring maybe those connections you mentioned. The cam does not hit like it should it will if you clear the codes. It was showing maf code but I replaced a bad connector so will have to check codes again. This car has lots going on maybe the wrong one for me to be learning on or maybe just what I need. Any input would be appreciated I'm good on old school stuff just trying to challenge my self on these fox bodys I want to keep it fuel injected but have thought about carb swap. This car should have some power but it wont as long as it has issues that need to be addressed. I been looking on line sometimes there's too much info on line.
High RPM bog is most likely a lack of fuel pressure (failing fuel pump). But it could also be a dirty mass air meter, clogged fuel filter, or a weak coil or a problem with the distributor, like the rotor. You should clean the MAF first, because it's easy. I have a video on that. Then check fuel pressure during the bog issue at WOT. Then move on to coil testing, and I have a video on that too.
Ok, I viewed your PIP video and part one of this TFI one. My 1994 Truck has the closed Bowl CCD distributor without the TFI attached to the body of distributor. The bad part on these are they require pulling the distributor if the Pickup inside failed. Therefore I am seeking verifiable tests to determine the actual cause of my running issues and 211 PIP fault code.
In my experience, the tfi problems are usually the connector not the module. If you get the symptoms when you touch or wiggle it, that's the connector. I have noticed it doesn't fit tight on replacement modules.
Sometimes when you wiggle it and the connection is loose, it's because the female terminals aren't tight. And sometimes it's because the pressure you're pushing on the module is affecting the internal connections in the module. You have to determine if it's a pin fitment issue. If you can't find any visually opened female terminals, you could do a pin fitment test. And if fitment is good and there is no corrosion, chances are it's the module.
You need to monitor the Spout signal. The Spout signal is what controls the firing of the Ignition Coil. The Spout Signal looks the same as the PIP signal but its timing is controlled by the Computer (CPU). The leading edge of the Spout Signal is what fires the Ignition Coil, once again at a time determined by the CPU. If you're having Ignition Problems stalling the engine, try removing the Spout connector, when the Spout connector is removed the Ignition is controlled by the PIP signal. If the engine now runs and doesn't stall with the Spout connector removed, there's a high probability the "load " created by the Spout connector being connected is having a loading effect on the PIP signal. When the PIP signal gets affected, it's affecting the Spout signal and therefore causing some problem with the leading edge of the Spout signal thats suppose to fire the ignition coil.
I have other videos showing PIP and SPOUT signals, and I understand very well how they work. But monitoring SPOUT on this particular video was not important, for two reasons. First, with the 4 signals I'm monitoring, I can see that the problem is not related to the signals. If the module lost it's SPOUT signal, it would simply run off PIP instead. Second, the PIP signal gets that clipped look to it only when SPOUT is present. If SPOUT were missing, it would be straight squarewaves without the notch. And third, I can see that the PIP (and because of the notches - SPOUT) is just fine, even as the engine is stalling out. The Module just quits firing the coil, despite having the signals it needs in order to fire the coil. In this case, it was more important to see spark occur, then not occur, while also monitoring module power and ground circuits to ensure that we weren't losing either of those.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Was wondering that when you Removed the Spout connector the engine did not stall ?? Therefore, when you reconnect the Spout connector the engine returns to stalling. Is it possible the PIP output circuitry is being loaded down by the CPU Spout generating circuitry ? Which if this is the case the Distributor will have to be replaced since the Hall Effect (PIP sensor) is built into distributor housing ? Thanks again for your video !!
Great video. What signals on the Black and Grey connectors were bad, you mentioned you cleaned them up? Also, what led you to believe there was bad Cap(s) in the CPU module before opening the CPU casing ? Also, I would disconnect the Ignition Control "negative control" from Ignition Coil and see if this signal grounds out via the square wave? Maybe a grounding issue at the Ignition Module ?? What was the final outcome on this vehicle , thanks.
Yep, spent big money on a Motorcraft rotor for my last year of distributor 93 Aerostar and after it was in there for less than a month...the goddam center tang broke off without fanfare. $40 Garbage! I've gone with Standard Ignition Products of late so pray for me. I purchased a Blue Streak pcm off Rock Auto and out of the box it was fucked up. I opened up the case and took a gander inside... original blue colored caps and dust from the test port so they didn't do dick in their Mexico operation. And try to get a hold of Rock Auto or those scammers at Blue Streak to give them a verbal beatdown, good luck.
Howdy, you're right it is a Chinese knockoff otherwise it would have printed on it Motorcraft the warehouses sold all their stock years ago. Thanks for making the video.☮
I recently replaced the ECU in an Australian built Ford EL Falcon which runs the EEC-V ECU as the engine kept stalling & the EFI & fuel pump relays would go Haywire. I opened the cover of the old ECU & the 0.1 ohm resistor for the power supply side had a split right down the middle of it so I ordered another ECU for it which seemed to fix the stalling problem. The engine is a 4 litre SOHC Ford in line six which was built in Australia, The other complaint was hard starting in the mornings when cold & I even fitted a whole Ford SX Territory fuel rail off the DOHC 4 litre Ford six onto the SOHC engine because 1. The fuel pressure was at 30 PSI instead of 39 & 2. Bosch don't make a direct fit 2.7 bar fuel pressure regulator for the EL Falcons anymore so I had to use a BA-BF Falcon/SX-SY Territory fuel rail & 2.7 bar fuel pressure regulator in the EL Falcon which is a direct fit replacement. That gave the car more power than it had before but it didn't fix the starting issue,the car did stall once with the replacement ECU after I played around with something near the battery so I soldered the terminals going to the battery because I think that the wires were a bit corroded & the engine hasn't stalled once ever since I have done that. I pulled the distributor out of the engine yesterday & I checked the Hall effect sensor terminals on the TFI module which had the green & crusties so I sanded them back & I applied some dielectric grease onto the male and female terminals,I also applied more heatsink compound onto the back of the TFI module as it was lacking a lot of it,the distributor is an aftermarket replacement unit. I applied some more dielectric grease into the Hall effect sensor terminals to try & keep the moisture out of them so I'll see if that has worked tomorrow,I think condensation was forming inside of the distributor cap & the Hall effect sensor terminals & shorting them out. I honestly think Ford have circled the problem - their own name, when Holden ran their own 5 litre EFI V8 engine in Australia they were probably letting people know with their oval shaped 3 pin connector on their Hall effect distributor units. They use a weatherproof connector for the Hall effect sensor inside of the distributor & their ignition module was remote mounted in the engine bay !
drag radial performance im going thruw the same shit with a 88 ford bronco i just bought a hantek1008c oscilloscope im going to do the same diagnostic before hand the truck would start but rpm would bounce around like crazy it would verly stay on but this was with a new distributor but this distributor was china my pops installed it it was his custumer so thats how it ran i took the truck home i checked all signals pip voltage spout coil etc everything there but i didnt have the oscillospe yet so i took off the china dizzy and used the old dizzy with a new pip sensor ckp? and new tfi and it would do the same as your video but this time it would idle and stay on but then die at different times i checked all wiring again changed the eec relay checked all grounds checked power everything there so then took off the dizy again ran the original pip ckp and another module and this time it slowed down the shuttin off issue but it still does it but but my biggest confusion is that when it cuts off if i try to start it again with out turning back the ignitiopn switch it wont fire the coil but when i do retrack the switch and go to start it again it fires everytime ? those this mean that tfi resets it self or something i feel like it goes into limp mode as in example not sure how to explain it but im going to check with the oscilloscope rite now
Use the scope to measure the PIP signal, SPOUT signal, module power, and coil negative. Run it and see what disappears. Be aware that you need to run a 10:1 or 20:1 attenuator on the coil negative wire, or you will likely kill your scope.
@@dragradialperformance3540 i dont know what a attenuator is but i will look that up its my first scope so im verly learning but i did check the pip signal the module voltage and the coil but nothing happened i was getting the same wave forms u were on your video but i did not check the spout thats what i forgat but the coil signal at times it would drop the voltage at times it would spike nothing crazy
@@dragradialperformance3540 but i never got to find the issue because the damn truck wouldnt shut off im going try again when its cold it did do it when it was cold earlier and it died one time but i didnt have the scope hooked up yet
@@dragradialperformance3540 but it does exactly what the mustang did i even bought another computer but im glad i did because the idle wasnt rite after the new pcm idle was back to normal
@@JayDee-ve6ml The aftermarket modules (including the new Ford Motorcraft modules that don't have the embossed Motorcraft lettering) suck. Don't be surprised if you get 2 or 3 junk ones in a row. Try NAPA or Standard Motor Products TFI modules, because the "new" Motorcraft modules are junk. The Motorcraft PIP sensors (the blue ones) are good. You can rule out the PCM and the SPOUT signal and just run the car off the PIP sensor by removing the SPOUT connector. The car will run at 10 BTDC all the time that way, but you could always set the timing to say 20 degrees for a while during testing. Just to see if the car shuts off with the PCM removed from the equation. As long as you have a good PIP signal before and during the moment your car stalled, then the problem (if ignition) is the module.
I installed the new Motocraft TFI Module from RockAuto and what does it mean when you connect the plug into the tfi module then wiggle the wires and you get spark ? my car even started up and ran for 10 minutes. then i turned it off let the motor cool off and it would not start only crank i wiggled the wires coming out from the TFI plug and it fired right up. ran it again for 10 minutes then I hooked up my inova 3145 and with the koer i got codes 8 , 12 42, and 92
It could mean that you have a distributor connector pin fitment issue, where the male and female pins aren't making the correct friction fit contact with each other, and wiggling the wires is temporarily improving the connection a bit. Or it could mean the module is bad, and wiggling the male pins on the module is changing the connections inside the module from bad to good temporarily. Unless someone has shoved a test probe into the female pins on the distributor connector and spread them, a bad module is more likely to be the real cause of this.
@@dragradialperformance3540 yes it was a defective Motocraft TFI module i bought from RockAuto so then I bought the Standard Motor Products LX218T Ignition Module Control Unit from amazon put arctic silver 5 thermal paste in stalled it on my 1991 Mustang 5.0 LX Coupe and she fired right up set timing @ 10 Degrees and she purred like a kitten went for a drive and I was so happy i came back put the code reader on KOER and codes 42 and 92 Oxygen sensors I guess i'll order 2 Motocraft Oxygen sensors thanks so much for you help.
@MrBigHands its unlikely both O2 sensors are bad. Although new Motorcraft ones never hurt. Make sure the mass air meter hot wires are clean, vacuum is going to the fuel pressure regulator, and the regulator diaphragm doesn't have fuel in the line. The car is rich. A bad coolant temp sensor could cause this too.
Drag Radial Performance would it not throw a code if the ACT sensor or coolant temp sensor was faulty? my low coolant light on the cluster is actually on and started flashing so i ordered the low coolant sensor from LMR LRS10968A 90-93-Mustang-Low-Coolant-Sensor and the level of coolant in the bottle is on the cold full mark but after it was installed the low coolant light on the cluster never went off so i think it was a defected one so they are sending me a new one.
also should i just replace fuel pressure regulator as-well? no codes for that being faulty either? also the water pump is leaking out the weep hole to so a new motocraft will be going in soon. do you think i should order a new replacement Motocraft TFI module from Rock Auto? or just or 2 more for backup from amazon i am real happy with that one.
I have a 95 mustang with 5.0 . I added catless x pipe, 75mm throttle body and cold air intake, and removed smog. Shortly after I started having problems. I can run the car all day long no issues but after it gets really hott, and I shut it off, it barely starts. I eather have to feather the gas to keep it running, or wait 30 mins to let engine cool down, but if I don't shut it off it I never have the problem. Does this sound like tfi to you ?I also heard a backfire through the intake a couple times but not consistent. I checked plugs but doesn't seem lean
This sounds more to me like a fuel delivery problem. It shouldn't get "really hot". It should only get as hot as the PCM and fans let it, which is probably in the 220-230 range at most. The backfire through the intake is typically a lean pop, indicating the engine might be running very lean. Before you shut it off, and know that it's going to do this, try going for a quick Wide Open Throttle run. If it runs fine at WOT, it's not fuel related. But if it pops thru the intake and falls on it's face, you might be in for a fuel pump or fuel delivery issue of some sort. But if it runs good at WOT, then it shouldn't have any trouble starting back up. A fuel pressure test gauge could confirm you don't have any fuel delivery issues, and that your check valve in the fuel pump isn't bad. Beyond that, maybe the coolant temp sensor is not working correctly. These cars do have limited datalogging with some scantools. You can see the coolant temp and confirm it, or you would have to measure the coolant temp sensor voltage by backprobing between the two coolant temp sensor wires, get that voltage, and convert the voltage to a temperature. I can help you with that if I know the voltage.
@@Pontisteve Thank you for response . I should have told you that I just replaced fuel pump, filter, and gas tank thinking it was fuel related. But it did not correct issue. Fuel pressure is good I may just replace ect since I think i have one laying around. It's just hard when there is no code, and doesn't happen all the time. From what I read 94-95 have funny issues pulling timing with simple bolt ons.
@@969Garage Try inspecting and cleaning the hotwires on your MAF sensor, and checking the air filter condition. And check for vacuum leaks. Also, check fuel pressure with a mechanic's test gauge anyway. The 94-95 PCM got a bad reputation because guys used to Fox bodies couldn't understand why they would ping when you put a calibrated MAF on them. These PCMs have load-based timing tables, and load is calculated based on mass airflow. So lie to the computer about mass airflow, and it will incorrectly calculate load, which could cause the timing to be over-advanced at WOT. The fix for that is easy. You have to program the computer to let it know of any changes you make.
Thank you fot explaining this. Everyone's answer to this issue was to throw a tune at it but your the first to explain why. I.was trying to avoid putting a tune on it untill i mod the car more but it may come sooner then later. Still may change out coolant temp sensor and maybe the one inside the intake tube. Lots of these sensors if not all are original
I have a question i recently changed my fuel system on my 92 mustang gt and now my car don't wanna start it cranks but it wont start any suggestions will be highly appreciated i think it might be the ignition module tfi.
First, get a fuel pressure gauge and make sure you have 39 PSI +/- 1 psi and that it doesn't bleed down very fast after you turn the key on. Next, look up my other videos on how to check coils and injector pulse. Finally, remove the PCM and pop the lid off. Inspect the 3 teal colored capacitors very carefully to see if they're leaking.
Watch my videos on testing coils, PIP signals, injector pulse, etc. You start by checking for a spark command signal at the coil. If you don't have it, you check the module and the PIP sensor inside the distributor. The module can be hard to diagnose without a scope, but if you have a good PIP signal going into it, and no coil control coming out, the module is the problem. You can test the PIP sensor by backprobing the top wire on the ignition module connector with a T-pin or backprobe. Then hook an LED test light to battery negative, and have someone crank the engine over while you touch the test light tip to the backprobe. It should blink as you crank. If not, the PIP sensor inside the distributor is no good. That takes a special gear puller to remove the distributor gear and replace the PIP sensor. Or just buy another distributor.
New sub. So what brand TFI would you recommend now that motorcraft are made in China. I just recently replaced mine. And your right it wasent stamped motorcraft.
@@chrisbishop7253 that's a tough question. My best guess would be a Napa gold or a Standard Motor Products module. If your Motorcraft module works, rock it. But if you keep getting ignition problems (even of a different kind of at a different RPM or temp), then consider switching brands. Ford dealt us a losing hand on this one.
@@dragradialperformance3540 thanks for the reply. Yeah i replaced tfi with the Chinese motorcraft and car ran strong for a week. Now i feel like ive lost 100hp and car is idling at a grand instead of 800 rpm where it was.
@@chrisbishop7253 The high idle is not likely due to the module. It could be due to the timing being wrong. Unplug the SPOUT connector and check that your base timing is set to 10 BTDC with a timing light.
Mark, the initial diagnosis on the white Mustang was a bad ignition module caused it to randomly shut off, mostly when hot. Typical module symptom. A new Motorcraft ignition module was installed, but I found that the car wouldn't always start. In disbelief that a brand new Motorcraft module could be bad right out of the box, I re-diagnosed the vehicle and sure enough, the new module was bad. As it turns out, Motorcrafts modules are no better now that cheap parts store modules. I used the scope to confirm that the new module was bad, and replaced it under warranty, with an aftermarket module which worked fine.
You can test the PIP sensor output very easy. You need a sewing T-pin or a backprobe, and an LED test light. Find the PIP signal wire on your module and backprobe it with the T-pin. Hook your LED test light up to battery negative, and touch the test light to the T-pin. Have someone crank the car. The light should blink. If not, the PIP sensor inside the distributor is bad, or isn't getting power and ground.
Drag Radial Performance Thank you for your quick reply. I will read and try to understand the above. I am familiar with back probing and I am understanding that with a test light and a remote starter or helper, I will be able to check for blink if PIP is good. If no blink, either the PIP is bad or not getting power and ground. Also as I understand, the PIP is connected to the TFI ICM over on the fender in my truck which also is possible to be bad, is it not?
Drag Radial Performance Thank you, and I mostly anticipated this to be the case but wasn't sure. The amount of study I have done in order to understand these EEC IV OBD1 systems is quite tiring from hunting and pecking for the best clear explanations of how the systems work and how to test the various components for proper functioning or failures, with readily available tools such as Vac testers, DVOM, Back probing, Fuel Pressure testers etc. From my research of my components such as TPS, EGR, Vac lines etc, all these items and their sensors were testing within spec. Once I purchased an OBD1 code reader and got 3 codes, I could then research how to test for what the causes of the 211 PIP code, 332 EGR code and 172 HEGO always lean codes are. This lead me to a good picture layout of the PIP/Ignition system and various testing and explanations for my 1994 F150 5.0 "N" series Truck I have. Plus to your you tube videos. Thank you again for helping.
Mark Laschinsky if you have a PIP sensor code, chances are the PIP sensor is bad. By using your test light, you can see if the PIP is sending a signal. You can also switch over to an incandescent bulb test light, connected to battery ground, and briefly touch the T-pin that's backprobed into the PIP signal. That will cause an injector to fire, the fuel pump to run for 1 second, and the coil to fire. So remove the coil wire from the coil, install a spark tester if you have one, and see if the coil sparks. If it does, then the module and coil are good. If it doesn't, then the module or coil is bad. Sorry for such poor video quality. There were Facebook live videos that I ported over, and they lost all resolution. One of these days I will make a high resolution video showing the PIP and module testing.
I replaced the bap /map sensor air flow meter,tps sensor IAC sensor and tfi module dui one new wires and spark plugs .and still car runs and idles funny
You can throw all the parts at it you want, but until you throw the one part that is bad at it, you're just wasting your money. Try these things: 1) Make sure there is not a vacuum line plugged into your MAP/BAP sensor, if your car is 89-up (or 88-up if California model with mass air). 2) Check carefully for vacuum leaks. Use a smoke machine if possible. 3) Make sure that you don't have aftermarket valve covers that use breather elements. If you have breather elements, you cannot have a PCV valve hooked up. 4) Remove the PCM, take the cover off, and inspect the 3 capacitors. They're teal blue and look something like a miniature AA battery. If they are leaking, or show ANY signs of corrosion on their legs or below them, they're bad. I sell the capacitor kits, but they need to be installed by a seasoned electronics guy.
Drag Radial Performance I have tryed a different pcm one is the original and other is a spare one I have both a9p the spare one has been worked on with new capacitors .and car still does the same thing .the car still idles funny and stalls out .i did I base idle reset twice and timming twice and still does same thing.i put cfrom inn it and car ran one hr good with rpm still jumping up and down.i even checked the airflow meter with volt meter to see if it works rite and it does .iam thinking it’s still the tfi module do it again.i put a brand new one inn dui one that’s what I run on my other car (coupe)
Thank you for sharing the video, i have exact same motor and super charger and i started to have that stalling syndrome like yours while I'm driving.
The ignition module is a prime suspect. The computer capacitors are worth inspecting too.
Once again, thank you for your direction and what to do and get injector to fire or not etc. After it stops raining, I will be back at the diagnosing and let you know what I come up with..
Great video well spoken thanks for your help
Hello, awesome videos these have really helped me out. Ive been dealing with a loss of spark on a 89 f250 460 tfi system. I lose spark at random anywhere between 20 seconds to 10-15 mins. Its really weird if I cycle the ignition key on off or disconnect the tfi harness (more specifically ive narrowed it down to just disconnecting the power run wire to the tfi ) it restores spark and instantly starts. I have tested 4 known good tfis (two were brand new) I checked voltages on the tfi plug and everthing checks out, two coils, a spare ecm and distributor (new pip) from a running truck and I have a good pip signal to the module, it is unaffected by having the spout in or out it dies either way and only starts after the key or disconnecting and reconnecting the tfi, the truck also throws no codes for anything currently. Ive also taken the engine wiring harness out and gone through it checking continuity and it looks fine. I was just wondering if you would have any insight or new direction to go in troubleshooting? This all started after i parked the truck for a month to change the intake gaskets. Ive also been through numerous troubleshooting guides for the tfi with my dvom and all signs point to a tfi issue i just cant fathom how disconnecting and reconnecting power fixes it let alone 4 other tfi modules having the exact same issue. Thanks again for the videos.
Try to find a genuine Motorcraft TFI module with the embossed lettering. The aftermarket modules are such junk compared to the original, which is discontinued. The PIP sensor can easily be tested with an LED test light backprobed into the top wire of the module connector while cranking. A 4 channel scope like the Picoscope is king for this, because you can capture power, ground, PIP, and coil control all at the same time, in slow motion.
It is entirely possible to get multiple junk ignition modules in a row these days. They're all Chinese junk. I've seen 3 in a row bad. Try switching brands. As for the PIP sensor, the Ford Motorcraft one is best. But the new Motorcraft non-embossed lettering modules are no better than any other cheap brand now. Ford farms them out.
Also be aware that all of the EEC-IV PCMs likely have bad/leaking capacitors in them, and repairing them is tricky but necessary in most cases. Open your PCM up, find the teal blue capacitors (which look like mini double A batteries), and see if there is any goop or corrosion leaking out the bottom of the capacitor between it's legs, and running down onto the board, corroding it's feet. I have a guy who can replace them if you find them bad.
I've got an 89 mustang 5.0 had it a while now. It was not strong at all when I got it , it was surging before I did some upgrades and still did after putting back together. Surging is gone now it does that bucking fords do at low speeds in 1st. You drive it has a little power to spin the wheels and falls on it face around 4,000 by 4500 bogs has only backfired during one time but bogs above 4,000. A little about the car sound bottom end checked compression installed f303 cam gt40heads and intake non egr. New fuel pump , regulator new 24lb injectors cold air intake. A new distributor autozone I need something better and will later. Good plugs and wires , new coil. I have replace left o2 was bad and map sensor as well. I know it's hard for you to fix stuff by reading people's comments. I will check those connectors in the salt and pepper shakers I think some people call them. I wish I had another car to swap some parts just to see. I truly think what ghost it has was in it when I got it. I'm starting to think computer or some shorts in wiring maybe those connections you mentioned. The cam does not hit like it should it will if you clear the codes. It was showing maf code but I replaced a bad connector so will have to check codes again. This car has lots going on maybe the wrong one for me to be learning on or maybe just what I need. Any input would be appreciated I'm good on old school stuff just trying to challenge my self on these fox bodys I want to keep it fuel injected but have thought about carb swap. This car should have some power but it wont as long as it has issues that need to be addressed. I been looking on line sometimes there's too much info on line.
High RPM bog is most likely a lack of fuel pressure (failing fuel pump). But it could also be a dirty mass air meter, clogged fuel filter, or a weak coil or a problem with the distributor, like the rotor.
You should clean the MAF first, because it's easy. I have a video on that. Then check fuel pressure during the bog issue at WOT. Then move on to coil testing, and I have a video on that too.
Ok, I viewed your PIP video and part one of this TFI one. My 1994 Truck has the closed Bowl CCD distributor without the TFI attached to the body of distributor. The bad part on these are they require pulling the distributor if the Pickup inside failed. Therefore I am seeking verifiable tests to determine the actual cause of my running issues and 211 PIP fault code.
In my experience, the tfi problems are usually the connector not the module.
If you get the symptoms when you touch or wiggle it, that's the connector.
I have noticed it doesn't fit tight on replacement modules.
Sometimes when you wiggle it and the connection is loose, it's because the female terminals aren't tight. And sometimes it's because the pressure you're pushing on the module is affecting the internal connections in the module. You have to determine if it's a pin fitment issue. If you can't find any visually opened female terminals, you could do a pin fitment test. And if fitment is good and there is no corrosion, chances are it's the module.
You need to monitor the Spout signal. The Spout signal is what controls the firing of the Ignition Coil. The Spout Signal looks the same as the PIP signal but its timing is controlled by the Computer (CPU). The leading edge of the Spout Signal is what fires the Ignition Coil, once again at a time determined by the CPU. If you're having Ignition Problems stalling the engine, try removing the Spout connector, when the Spout connector is removed the Ignition is controlled by the PIP signal. If the engine now runs and doesn't stall with the Spout connector removed, there's a high probability the "load " created by the Spout connector being connected is having a loading effect on the PIP signal. When the PIP signal gets affected, it's affecting the Spout signal and therefore causing some problem with the leading edge of the Spout signal thats suppose to fire the ignition coil.
I have other videos showing PIP and SPOUT signals, and I understand very well how they work. But monitoring SPOUT on this particular video was not important, for two reasons. First, with the 4 signals I'm monitoring, I can see that the problem is not related to the signals. If the module lost it's SPOUT signal, it would simply run off PIP instead. Second, the PIP signal gets that clipped look to it only when SPOUT is present. If SPOUT were missing, it would be straight squarewaves without the notch. And third, I can see that the PIP (and because of the notches - SPOUT) is just fine, even as the engine is stalling out. The Module just quits firing the coil, despite having the signals it needs in order to fire the coil. In this case, it was more important to see spark occur, then not occur, while also monitoring module power and ground circuits to ensure that we weren't losing either of those.
@@dragradialperformance3540 Was wondering that when you Removed the Spout connector the engine did not stall ?? Therefore, when you reconnect the Spout connector the engine returns to stalling. Is it possible the PIP output circuitry is being loaded down by the CPU Spout generating circuitry ? Which if this is the case the Distributor will have to be replaced since the Hall Effect (PIP sensor) is built into distributor housing ? Thanks again for your video !!
Great video. What signals on the Black and Grey connectors were bad, you mentioned you cleaned them up? Also, what led you to believe there was bad Cap(s) in the CPU module before opening the CPU casing ? Also, I would disconnect the Ignition Control "negative control" from Ignition Coil and see if this signal grounds out via the square wave? Maybe a grounding issue at the Ignition Module ?? What was the final outcome on this vehicle , thanks.
Yep, spent big money on a Motorcraft rotor for my last year of distributor 93 Aerostar and after it was in there for less than a month...the goddam center tang broke off without fanfare. $40 Garbage! I've gone with Standard Ignition Products of late so pray for me. I purchased a Blue Streak pcm off Rock Auto and out of the box it was fucked up. I opened up the case and took a gander inside... original blue colored caps and dust from the test port so they didn't do dick in their Mexico operation. And try to get a hold of Rock Auto or those scammers at Blue Streak to give them a verbal beatdown, good luck.
Howdy, you're right it is a Chinese knockoff otherwise it would have printed on it Motorcraft the warehouses sold all their stock years ago. Thanks for making the video.☮
I recently replaced the ECU in an Australian built Ford EL Falcon which runs the EEC-V ECU as the engine kept stalling & the EFI & fuel pump relays would go Haywire.
I opened the cover of the old ECU & the 0.1 ohm resistor for the power supply side had a split right down the middle of it so I ordered another ECU for it which seemed to fix the stalling problem.
The engine is a 4 litre SOHC Ford in line six which was built in Australia, The other complaint was hard starting in the mornings when cold & I even fitted a whole Ford SX Territory fuel rail off the DOHC 4 litre Ford six onto the SOHC engine because 1. The fuel pressure was at 30 PSI instead of 39 & 2. Bosch don't make a direct fit 2.7 bar fuel pressure regulator for the EL Falcons anymore so I had to use a BA-BF Falcon/SX-SY Territory fuel rail & 2.7 bar fuel pressure regulator in the EL Falcon which is a direct fit replacement.
That gave the car more power than it had before but it didn't fix the starting issue,the car did stall once with the replacement ECU after I played around with something near the battery so I soldered the terminals going to the battery because I think that the wires were a bit corroded & the engine hasn't stalled once ever since I have done that.
I pulled the distributor out of the engine yesterday & I checked the Hall effect sensor terminals on the TFI module which had the green & crusties so I sanded them back & I applied some dielectric grease onto the male and female terminals,I also applied more heatsink compound onto the back of the TFI module as it was lacking a lot of it,the distributor is an aftermarket replacement unit.
I applied some more dielectric grease into the Hall effect sensor terminals to try & keep the moisture out of them so I'll see if that has worked tomorrow,I think condensation was forming inside of the distributor cap & the Hall effect sensor terminals & shorting them out.
I honestly think Ford have circled the problem - their own name, when Holden ran their own 5 litre EFI V8 engine in Australia they were probably letting people know with their oval shaped 3 pin connector on their Hall effect distributor units.
They use a weatherproof connector for the Hall effect sensor inside of the distributor & their ignition module was remote mounted in the engine bay !
drag radial performance im going thruw the same shit with a 88 ford bronco i just bought a hantek1008c oscilloscope im going to do the same diagnostic before hand the truck would start but rpm would bounce around like crazy it would verly stay on but this was with a new distributor but this distributor was china my pops installed it it was his custumer so thats how it ran i took the truck home i checked all signals pip voltage spout coil etc everything there but i didnt have the oscillospe yet so i took off the china dizzy and used the old dizzy with a new pip sensor ckp? and new tfi and it would do the same as your video but this time it would idle and stay on but then die at different times i checked all wiring again changed the eec relay checked all grounds checked power everything there so then took off the dizy again ran the original pip ckp and another module and this time it slowed down the shuttin off issue but it still does it but but my biggest confusion is that when it cuts off if i try to start it again with out turning back the ignitiopn switch it wont fire the coil but when i do retrack the switch and go to start it again it fires everytime ? those this mean that tfi resets it self or something i feel like it goes into limp mode as in example not sure how to explain it but im going to check with the oscilloscope rite now
Use the scope to measure the PIP signal, SPOUT signal, module power, and coil negative. Run it and see what disappears. Be aware that you need to run a 10:1 or 20:1 attenuator on the coil negative wire, or you will likely kill your scope.
@@dragradialperformance3540 i dont know what a attenuator is but i will look that up its my first scope so im verly learning but i did check the pip signal the module voltage and the coil but nothing happened i was getting the same wave forms u were on your video but i did not check the spout thats what i forgat but the coil signal at times it would drop the voltage at times it would spike nothing crazy
@@dragradialperformance3540 but i never got to find the issue because the damn truck wouldnt shut off im going try again when its cold it did do it when it was cold earlier and it died one time but i didnt have the scope hooked up yet
@@dragradialperformance3540 but it does exactly what the mustang did i even bought another computer but im glad i did because the idle wasnt rite after the new pcm idle was back to normal
@@JayDee-ve6ml The aftermarket modules (including the new Ford Motorcraft modules that don't have the embossed Motorcraft lettering) suck. Don't be surprised if you get 2 or 3 junk ones in a row. Try NAPA or Standard Motor Products TFI modules, because the "new" Motorcraft modules are junk. The Motorcraft PIP sensors (the blue ones) are good.
You can rule out the PCM and the SPOUT signal and just run the car off the PIP sensor by removing the SPOUT connector. The car will run at 10 BTDC all the time that way, but you could always set the timing to say 20 degrees for a while during testing. Just to see if the car shuts off with the PCM removed from the equation. As long as you have a good PIP signal before and during the moment your car stalled, then the problem (if ignition) is the module.
I installed the new Motocraft TFI Module from RockAuto and what does it mean when you connect the plug into the tfi module then wiggle the wires and you get spark ? my car even started up and ran for 10 minutes. then i turned it off let the motor cool off and it would not start only crank i wiggled the wires coming out from the TFI plug and it fired right up. ran it again for 10 minutes then I hooked up my inova 3145 and with the koer i got codes 8 , 12 42, and 92
It could mean that you have a distributor connector pin fitment issue, where the male and female pins aren't making the correct friction fit contact with each other, and wiggling the wires is temporarily improving the connection a bit. Or it could mean the module is bad, and wiggling the male pins on the module is changing the connections inside the module from bad to good temporarily. Unless someone has shoved a test probe into the female pins on the distributor connector and spread them, a bad module is more likely to be the real cause of this.
@@dragradialperformance3540 yes it was a defective Motocraft TFI module i bought from RockAuto so then I bought the Standard Motor Products LX218T Ignition Module Control Unit from amazon put arctic silver 5 thermal paste in stalled it on my 1991 Mustang 5.0 LX Coupe and she fired right up set timing @ 10 Degrees and she purred like a kitten went for a drive and I was so happy i came back put the code reader on KOER and codes 42 and 92 Oxygen sensors I guess i'll order 2 Motocraft Oxygen sensors thanks so much for you help.
@MrBigHands its unlikely both O2 sensors are bad. Although new Motorcraft ones never hurt. Make sure the mass air meter hot wires are clean, vacuum is going to the fuel pressure regulator, and the regulator diaphragm doesn't have fuel in the line. The car is rich. A bad coolant temp sensor could cause this too.
Drag Radial Performance would it not throw a code if the ACT sensor or coolant temp sensor was faulty? my low coolant light on the cluster is actually on and started flashing so i ordered the low coolant sensor from LMR LRS10968A 90-93-Mustang-Low-Coolant-Sensor and the level of coolant in the bottle is on the cold full mark but after it was installed the low coolant light on the cluster never went off so i think it was a defected one so they are sending me a new one.
also should i just replace fuel pressure regulator as-well? no codes for that being faulty either? also the water pump is leaking out the weep hole to so a new motocraft will be going in soon. do you think i should order a new replacement Motocraft TFI module from Rock Auto? or just or 2 more for backup from amazon i am real happy with that one.
I have a 95 mustang with 5.0 . I added catless x pipe, 75mm throttle body and cold air intake, and removed smog. Shortly after I started having problems. I can run the car all day long no issues but after it gets really hott, and I shut it off, it barely starts. I eather have to feather the gas to keep it running, or wait 30 mins to let engine cool down, but if I don't shut it off it I never have the problem. Does this sound like tfi to you ?I also heard a backfire through the intake a couple times but not consistent. I checked plugs but doesn't seem lean
This sounds more to me like a fuel delivery problem. It shouldn't get "really hot". It should only get as hot as the PCM and fans let it, which is probably in the 220-230 range at most. The backfire through the intake is typically a lean pop, indicating the engine might be running very lean. Before you shut it off, and know that it's going to do this, try going for a quick Wide Open Throttle run. If it runs fine at WOT, it's not fuel related. But if it pops thru the intake and falls on it's face, you might be in for a fuel pump or fuel delivery issue of some sort.
But if it runs good at WOT, then it shouldn't have any trouble starting back up. A fuel pressure test gauge could confirm you don't have any fuel delivery issues, and that your check valve in the fuel pump isn't bad. Beyond that, maybe the coolant temp sensor is not working correctly. These cars do have limited datalogging with some scantools. You can see the coolant temp and confirm it, or you would have to measure the coolant temp sensor voltage by backprobing between the two coolant temp sensor wires, get that voltage, and convert the voltage to a temperature. I can help you with that if I know the voltage.
@@Pontisteve Thank you for response
. I should have told you that I just replaced fuel pump, filter, and gas tank thinking it was fuel related. But it did not correct issue. Fuel pressure is good I may just replace ect since I think i have one laying around. It's just hard when there is no code, and doesn't happen all the time. From what I read 94-95 have funny issues pulling timing with simple bolt ons.
And when I mean really hot. I mean out side. Like 90s and I'm driving all for a while
@@969Garage Try inspecting and cleaning the hotwires on your MAF sensor, and checking the air filter condition. And check for vacuum leaks. Also, check fuel pressure with a mechanic's test gauge anyway. The 94-95 PCM got a bad reputation because guys used to Fox bodies couldn't understand why they would ping when you put a calibrated MAF on them. These PCMs have load-based timing tables, and load is calculated based on mass airflow. So lie to the computer about mass airflow, and it will incorrectly calculate load, which could cause the timing to be over-advanced at WOT. The fix for that is easy. You have to program the computer to let it know of any changes you make.
Thank you fot explaining this. Everyone's answer to this issue was to throw a tune at it but your the first to explain why. I.was trying to avoid putting a tune on it untill i mod the car more but it may come sooner then later. Still may change out coolant temp sensor and maybe the one inside the intake tube. Lots of these sensors if not all are original
I have a question i recently changed my fuel system on my 92 mustang gt and now my car don't wanna start it cranks but it wont start any suggestions will be highly appreciated i think it might be the ignition module tfi.
First, get a fuel pressure gauge and make sure you have 39 PSI +/- 1 psi and that it doesn't bleed down very fast after you turn the key on.
Next, look up my other videos on how to check coils and injector pulse.
Finally, remove the PCM and pop the lid off. Inspect the 3 teal colored capacitors very carefully to see if they're leaking.
@@dragradialperformance3540 oh ok thanks
Would the tfi module give me no spark? I've changed the ignition module and the ignition coil I still have no spark in my 87 gt 5.0
Watch my videos on testing coils, PIP signals, injector pulse, etc. You start by checking for a spark command signal at the coil. If you don't have it, you check the module and the PIP sensor inside the distributor. The module can be hard to diagnose without a scope, but if you have a good PIP signal going into it, and no coil control coming out, the module is the problem.
You can test the PIP sensor by backprobing the top wire on the ignition module connector with a T-pin or backprobe. Then hook an LED test light to battery negative, and have someone crank the engine over while you touch the test light tip to the backprobe. It should blink as you crank. If not, the PIP sensor inside the distributor is no good. That takes a special gear puller to remove the distributor gear and replace the PIP sensor. Or just buy another distributor.
New sub. So what brand TFI would you recommend now that motorcraft are made in China. I just recently replaced mine. And your right it wasent stamped motorcraft.
@@chrisbishop7253 that's a tough question. My best guess would be a Napa gold or a Standard Motor Products module. If your Motorcraft module works, rock it. But if you keep getting ignition problems (even of a different kind of at a different RPM or temp), then consider switching brands. Ford dealt us a losing hand on this one.
@@dragradialperformance3540 thanks for the reply. Yeah i replaced tfi with the Chinese motorcraft and car ran strong for a week. Now i feel like ive lost 100hp and car is idling at a grand instead of 800 rpm where it was.
@@chrisbishop7253 The high idle is not likely due to the module. It could be due to the timing being wrong. Unplug the SPOUT connector and check that your base timing is set to 10 BTDC with a timing light.
Having viewed this clip until almost the end, I am still curious what you found the fix to be.
Mark, the initial diagnosis on the white Mustang was a bad ignition module caused it to randomly shut off, mostly when hot. Typical module symptom.
A new Motorcraft ignition module was installed, but I found that the car wouldn't always start. In disbelief that a brand new Motorcraft module could be bad right out of the box, I re-diagnosed the vehicle and sure enough, the new module was bad. As it turns out, Motorcrafts modules are no better now that cheap parts store modules. I used the scope to confirm that the new module was bad, and replaced it under warranty, with an aftermarket module which worked fine.
You can test the PIP sensor output very easy. You need a sewing T-pin or a backprobe, and an LED test light. Find the PIP signal wire on your module and backprobe it with the T-pin. Hook your LED test light up to battery negative, and touch the test light to the T-pin. Have someone crank the car. The light should blink. If not, the PIP sensor inside the distributor is bad, or isn't getting power and ground.
Drag Radial Performance Thank you for your quick reply. I will read and try to understand the above. I am familiar with back probing and I am understanding that with a test light and a remote starter or helper, I will be able to check for blink if PIP is good. If no blink, either the PIP is bad or not getting power and ground. Also as I understand, the PIP is connected to the TFI ICM over on the fender in my truck which also is possible to be bad, is it not?
Drag Radial Performance Thank you, and I mostly anticipated this to be the case but wasn't sure. The amount of study I have done in order to understand these EEC IV OBD1 systems is quite tiring from hunting and pecking for the best clear explanations of how the systems work and how to test the various components for proper functioning or failures, with readily available tools such as Vac testers, DVOM, Back probing, Fuel Pressure testers etc. From my research of my components such as TPS, EGR, Vac lines etc, all these items and their sensors were testing within spec. Once I purchased an OBD1 code reader and got 3 codes, I could then research how to test for what the causes of the 211 PIP code, 332 EGR code and 172 HEGO always lean codes are. This lead me to a good picture layout of the PIP/Ignition system and various testing and explanations for my 1994 F150 5.0 "N" series Truck I have. Plus to your you tube videos. Thank you again for helping.
Mark Laschinsky if you have a PIP sensor code, chances are the PIP sensor is bad. By using your test light, you can see if the PIP is sending a signal. You can also switch over to an incandescent bulb test light, connected to battery ground, and briefly touch the T-pin that's backprobed into the PIP signal. That will cause an injector to fire, the fuel pump to run for 1 second, and the coil to fire. So remove the coil wire from the coil, install a spark tester if you have one, and see if the coil sparks. If it does, then the module and coil are good. If it doesn't, then the module or coil is bad.
Sorry for such poor video quality. There were Facebook live videos that I ported over, and they lost all resolution. One of these days I will make a high resolution video showing the PIP and module testing.
Damnitman
What?
@@dragradialperformance3540 high tech 👍💪
I replaced the bap /map sensor air flow meter,tps sensor IAC sensor and tfi module dui one new wires and spark plugs .and still car runs and idles funny
You can throw all the parts at it you want, but until you throw the one part that is bad at it, you're just wasting your money. Try these things: 1) Make sure there is not a vacuum line plugged into your MAP/BAP sensor, if your car is 89-up (or 88-up if California model with mass air). 2) Check carefully for vacuum leaks. Use a smoke machine if possible. 3) Make sure that you don't have aftermarket valve covers that use breather elements. If you have breather elements, you cannot have a PCV valve hooked up. 4) Remove the PCM, take the cover off, and inspect the 3 capacitors. They're teal blue and look something like a miniature AA battery. If they are leaking, or show ANY signs of corrosion on their legs or below them, they're bad. I sell the capacitor kits, but they need to be installed by a seasoned electronics guy.
Drag Radial Performance I have tryed a different pcm one is the original and other is a spare one I have both a9p the spare one has been worked on with new capacitors .and car still does the same thing .the car still idles funny and stalls out .i did I base idle reset twice and timming twice and still does same thing.i put cfrom inn it and car ran one hr good with rpm still jumping up and down.i even checked the airflow meter with volt meter to see if it works rite and it does .iam thinking it’s still the tfi module do it again.i put a brand new one inn dui one that’s what I run on my other car (coupe)
@@josecervantes5431 DID YOU GET IT FIXED?
@@israelmondragon2664 yes it was the tfi module again
@@josecervantes5431 Which brand did you buy and how much was it?