The difference between washes & contrast type paints. Your questions answered.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2022
- A question we are frequently asked is - "What is the difference between a wash and a contrast paint *(Citadel Contrast and Army Painter's Speed paints), and why would you choose one or the other?" There is a lot of confusion about this as these types of paint have a bit of a crossover in how they work, but there are properties unique to each that are important to know as they give very different results. This video contains lots of useful information on the subject to help you make the best choice for what techniques you like to use, and what result you want on your miniatures.
Cheers
Dunc and Rog
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This is the kinda stuff we need. I feel like a lot of these types of topics aren’t covered a lot or talked about in the painting community. It’s usually just “hey let’s paint this model”. Same goes for varnishes and how to properly apply / which brands to use. I feel like varnishing is such an important step and a lot of products frost your miniature. I want to know how GW always gets that smooth finish with the metals intact.
Glad you enjoyed it! We will be doing a tutorial on Varnishes soon
@@DuncanRhodesDRPA Awesome, and thank you!
I’ve always heard that GW doesn’t varnish the studio models, and that part of the eavy metal team’s job is touching up studio armies after battle reports and other uses.
This is surprising to me, as ive seen plenty of videos explaining the difference. Dont get me wrong, i agree it was a good video, just not anything new.
Seconding this comment
The fact you used your own line AND kept it objective has me blown away. Definitely good to see that you think each type and brand of paint has own use that’s best for certain jobs.
This is how they get you, they start objective and slowly but surely, Duncan's board of directors slowly take advantage of that trust.
I will be glad when our two thin coats rack comes in.
Sometimes you don't have to used things as advertised, It's just great to have different types of paints for you to experiment with in your toolbox. Great guide as always!
So true, i was curious and bought something-fur contrast from GW but instead of using as intended, I used it as some sort of drip and oil leakage on my space Marines - looks amazing
Almost 18 minutes of straight to the point info + examples. Thank you!
I’ve always found that concept and technique videos are more valuable to the hobby than step-by-step/color-by-color videos. I can use techniques and concepts with whatever colors I have on hand instead of following someone else’s interpretations.
Surely but takes a lot longer to make.
I heard you quit GW because contrast paints couldnt be done in 2 thin coats.
🤫
Can you explain what you said? Kinda new to this
Duncan, you have been an utterly invaluable resource for me as a new mini painter. I’ve always wanted to start but it’s only now I’m 30 and financially secure that I can really dive into it guilt-free!
I know there’s no replacement for straight up painting time; however, I definitely feel like I’ve picked up an unbelievable amount of information in quite a short time from your videos during painting downtime.
The TH-cam community for mini painting is amazing on the whole but you and a few others have been my go-to for easily digestible information. After each video, I find myself eager and inspired to go back to my minis and try new things out!
Wow, thank you for the kind words and for taking the time to comment, we really appreciate it.
I dont comment on a lot of videos, but this was one of the MOST informative I have seen. Awesome vid :)
I like the prospect of this kind of educational video.
Duncan has always had an unusually fantastic vocal pacing, and whoever does the writing for his ticker is spot on. If he's just going adlib then no wonder he has his own academy.
I'd enjoy seeing a video on the concept of wet blending.
Is there any interest in throwing up additional visual aids in future? Things like graphics showing interaction, hand motion, etc?
Thank you. Rog and I go through the stages and work it out then we just go for it! We have a full tutorial on our website for wet blending if you're interested.
@@DuncanRhodesDRPA I absolutely am, thank you for the heads up!
I have found contrast to be useful for creating smooth transitions from recess to flat surface on large textured surfaces (animal skin for example). The 2-in-1 basecoat and shading over white does not really work nearly as well as advertised in my experience however.
I found doing interesting things with the priming and undercoat is a good way to get slightly cooler effects from Contrast. I've got a kill team of Iron Hands and simply putting black contrast over a metallic prime made a very cool finish for black armour quickly and easily. Applying it over a directional undercoat that sets your lighting out from the start or even a multicoloured prime is also a good way of adding more interest than just contrast over a light base
The contrast marketing seemed to go a different route from what the paint designers had in mind.
I also use contrast as shades, but thinned down. You can use Contrast Medium if you still want it to act like a contrast paint, or if you use a colour that you don't have in the shade-/wash line (like yellow or pink, which isn't really common in wash-form), you can use water to thin down contrast paints as well, and it will behave a bit more like a wash than it would with the intended thinner. I recommend people just try both/all thing they can think of, as you can find a use for every single texture/effect you discover. That "torn skin"-lpok you mentioned if you touch the contrast-pool too early can also have its uses for certain effects, with different undercoats etc. It's insane how much the contrast/wash lines can be used for, it's really just about exploring and your own fantasy is the limit!
I love contrast paints because I use them in a specific way that suits the effect I'm trying to achieve. My favorite is to use Blood Angels red over bright silver metallic and you get a great red color with a metallic sheen.
I already knew the difference but watched the whole thing anyway. You're our hobbies' Neil Buchanan / Bob Ross. Keep being awesome DRPA.
Thanks! Will do!
This is an amazing video Duncan, please make more of these.
Amazingly systematic and comprehensive tutorial! Thank you for creating this.
This is really helpful -- especially the detailed look at recess shading with contrast paints vs. washes. Thank you!
I think the intense staining thing you mention for contrast paints is why nearly every painting tutorial that I see that uses them says:
"Now, take your XYZ contrast paint, and we're going to thin it down with Contrast Medium. About 3 to 4 parts contrast to 1 part XYZ."
To really lighten up on the staining power. I haven't seen many that use the contrast paint without at least a little mixing with contrast medium.
I really like these types of videos. Showing us how different paints work and when to apply it helps gives context to different techniques that we can use. It also helps to understand if we mess up how to fix those problem areas. Great job guys.
The comparative examples and detailed explanation of the application were beautifully effective. Thank you!
I'm a beginner with painting, but so far I've found that dark contrast paints can be really useful, and in general all contrast paints are pretty good for organic/ fleshy surfaces. For anything else though I find it too unforgiving to work with.
you need a glossy primer under them to work properly as it flows better and well the Citadel constrast are to thick to begin with. You can thin them down. I found Vallejo xpress very good as they are thinner and have a better consistency all over the color range.
Thank you for that very clear description of the differences in the paint and the techniques of applying it. Very useful, thanks again.
The first 3 minutes of this video is what I've been wanting to know since the day I first heard of contrast paints. Thank you so much for this post, it really did answer my questions.
Do have to say that "Skin tearing" you showed off on the skeleton would make a great worn leather effect.
I was thinking along those lines, but more like staining or fading.
This is ideal. Literally went into GW the other week to ask about it after watching and wanting to follow the iron warriors video you have!
See a lot of people use contrast for wet blending these days. And reactivating speed paint on purpose for better blend. The breaking to the brown was fascinating. My problem is I always seem to overload my brush and get very dark colors. Great stuff!
Big thank you!!!
Especially the quick point about how the brush should be handled. Im a noob and those basics are still somewhat foreign to me and those quick talkingpoints are often ignored.
I like how you're straight to the point and display and explain exactly what it is you're doing to achieve different results. Very well done bro! 🤘🏼
Thanks 😊
Now these are the videos that I have been looking forward to!! Thanks a ton!!
No worries 😊
Ooh this is definitely a very interesting and captivating format of video. Especially since we're hearing this from an expert no less!
Thank you for this video. Thank you for all of your videos as well.
Excellent vid. Thanks for showing the different uses for both
Glad it was helpful!
Great summary and appreciated the live examples. Thanks.
Great video, very informative, I will keep using the old base color technique but am now open to use a contrast paint here and there when needed! Thank you! Also I second a varnish tutorial, have been working on a KO army and I am afraid of loosing the metal I've accomplished!
Very clear explanation, thank you. This noob recently painted some grey-primed Zombicide zombies with Citadel washes, to try for a speedy muted effect. Took two coats of each but it worked well enough (for me, noob expectations!)
But it left me wondering what Contrast/SpeedPaints would do differently. This timely video was the perfect explanation.
For me, I'll stick to normal acrylics + washes, as the repair efforts look simpler.
for that necron trick, I use it for my alpha legion and you can use a large brush with the contrast and apply it like a drybrushing all over the mini and it looks pretty good
I appreciate the clarification, thanks!
Im a beginner painter and the thing about overloading your brush was a good lesson. I genarally feel like the most basic stuff is overlook (or hard to find) when it comes to painting. Good job!
Duncan has a video for beginners that is very good. 5 things I wished I know when I started painting, or something along those lines.
Very helpful video. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
Thank you this was perfect to understand the differences
Thanks for this, I can't wait until the DR set comes!!!!
Just started up painting warhammer 40k again after 25 years. Trying contrast paints for the first time on orcs and all your guides have helped alot. Ty
Love your videos mate, thank you so much for all the tips you provide.
Glad you like them!
Loved this. I would be interested to know about the compositional differences between the two, i.e. what mediums/additives make them different.
Thanks this helps my friend who's painting up his Lannisters.
Awesome
Proper stoked for your line of paints
This was a really interesting and very helpful video. Many thanks
Great video very informative, keep up the good work. I would love to see a video covering the proper usege of a medium while painting as i haven't the foggiest on how to use it. :D
Started a death guard army for the express purpose of doing the whole thing in contrast. This was a great source of info, so thank you for this
Did you go for it? If so, how did it turn out?
@@ovidiudiumea4012 still working on it. I can tell you one thing... Grey seer primer worked better than white. Pox walkers look really good. Alot of flat panels on the plague Marines so you have to take a bit more care. So far not a terrible experience, but I think there's a place to use them in conjunction with traditional paints.
Excellent content, so informative and exciting! Been wondering about using space wolves contrast to recess shade my Fenryka army. So this settles that and I can't wait to get started. Thanks, Duncan!
Anytime. Glad it helped
I just got my Two Thin Coats Paints in the mail and I can't wait to start using them! The gold and silver are so vibrant!
Awesome! We hope you enjoy using them and thank you for the support 😊
Super helpful, thank you!
Thank you Duncan, that helped me a lot.
Glad it helped and you're welcome
Yes they are different but ive been enjoying taking a opaque base paint and then enhancing it with a contrast paint. Example being Mournfeng Brown and then Snakebite Leather. Or Mephiston Red with a Flesh Tearers Red. Another one is Lead Belcher plus Basilicanum Grey. THE LAST ONE. Corax White. Then Yriel Yellow. Then AP Zealot Yellow. Instant Flame jobs
Thanks Duncs, very informative!
Another thing to mention is that I ONLY use contrast paints to create glazes. If you mix them with either glaze medium or a lot of water you can use the colours to tint other colours to create new ones! really interesting to experiment with
Really useful, really great, thank you.
As always top notch advise thanks 🙏
thanks so much Duncan! 👍🏽👍🏽
Thank you for this video!!!
Great tutorial DR. Paint
Good instructional. Out of curiosity when is the two thin coats range available to buy? 👍
Very helpful for helping me understand how the contrast paints work. I was having troubles getting them to go on right cause I was applying them more like a wash... haha
Glad I could help!
thanks Duncan
For me, contrast paint was THE savior to create leakage and oil stains on my grimdark space Marines, I also used it the same way on my neurons. It gives Gold also a great used look (I am talking about something fur - contrast ), really helped to create this darkish used artstyle
Did you try the Typhus Corrosion technical, and if so how did that compare to the contrast for the oil spills?
If you added flow improver to the contrast paint would you get something like a wash - more intensity in the recesses and longer drying time?
Thanks Duncan
Very Helpful!
Wow I didn't know you can read minds! Perfect answer for what I've been wondering! Thank you!
Happy to help!
Duncan; some ideas for your next videos. Necessary modeling and painting gear, brush care, modeling and painting processes.
Awesome video you should maybe review the speed paint from army painter to see if they're comparable to contrast etc.
Awesome guide
I know the difference, I'm just here to listen to Duncan's voice.
Keep up the great work D. Love your videos :)
Glad you like them!
That was one classy intro! top notch!
As always, great stuff, thanks for tge help !
Fellow Raptor reporting for duty.
My favorite use for contrast type paints is as a first overcoat over a solid base of a similar color. I find it gives a richer smoother result, generally better than a similarly colored wash for many of my purposes. When I just want to get something done:
Base
Contrast
Lowlights/details
Dry brush
Probably done
Great video topic!
09:00 I would have thinned that contrast paint as much as 50/50 with contrast medium so it flows better and creates more of a highlight/depth effect rather than looking like just a regular black paint application.
Awesome video Duncan! I’ve just started painting and like it a lot. One thing I’ve noticed from watching a ton of videos is some painters prefer recessed shading as opposed to all over. Is that just cause they don’t want to layer the base coat back on after?
Oh also is there a video or tutorial on layering? I think I understand it but I’m not 100 percent sure. Do you paint the basecoat back on over the shade? Any help from anyone would be appreciated. Thanks for all the tips! They are very helpful.
Hello. Layering is simply re-establishing your mid-tone colour after shading. Depending on the miniature, you can recess shade (Space Marine Panels) or you can do an all-over shade (Organic parts of a miniature, like skin.) It all depends on you and what you are comfortable with and what works for you as a painter. 😊
duncan...how would u make agrax earth shade gloss?? gw aint doing that anymore and my trench fighters have that on their bases to make a wet muddy feeling
Question, I painted a marine more or less white/light gray, and I used the Agrax Earthshade Shade over it and it’s pretty much turned all the white a dirty brown color. It looks pretty dope actually but it’s not what I was going for. Are there different Shades that are better for brighter colors?
So I am having problem recess shading ultramarine with null oil so you are suggesting to use black templar that i have around?
Duncan, would you consider doing some videos on the qualities of particular paints in your new line? I can always look at a picture of the color, but without having the viscosity, coverage, finish, &c explained by a painter actually showing off the paint it’s difficult to know exactly what products I want to buy.
Thank you , DRPA.
🐺
Could you use the tearing of contrast paint to make blood stained cloth? I know there’s wet blending, but I feel that the effect it did on the skeletons robes could make a good stained/worn cloth.
Could that tear effect from breaking the skin of contrast paint be used constructively? The example you gave looked fairly close to old parchment
you can use contrast like a filter and wash for leather after you painted a base coat of for example brown, depends on the effect you want
Hi Duncan, do you plan to make any comparisons of 'miniature' products, with these coming from more scale model origin? Especialy enamel stuff, they're sooo easy and quick to use. Tamiya panel liner makes pin washing a 1min/miniature endevour, and it tooke me literally moments to weather death guard infantry with streaking grime and rust stuff from AK (subtractive painting here). Also, they're kinda reversible with a bit of white spirit/lighter fluid, while acrylics you basically need to overpaint every single time.
Excellent video! Duncan looks a bit exhausted tho. Hope you're doing fine.
On a related topic: inks are neither washes nor contrast-type paints, they're their own thing as well. You can use inks to mix your own wash/contrast-type paints at the desk... but pure ink behaves like neither.
I think a big part of all the confusion stems from 'wash' being a technique 1st vs. a paint type... the paint type was in fact formulated to be the best fit for an established technique, but the problem is people still do the technique with other types of paint, including inks, contrast, thinned down oils, & stain varnishes. With stain varnishes it gets even more complicated, because we have good old AP strong tone... which is a stain varnish but sold in the AP washes product line.
Compound that with an annoying tendency in the model community to ignore nuances in both material & technique... & just say 'contrast is just a wash', or 'I've done slapchopping(*) for years with inks & it's really grisaille'. The reality is while all this stuff has a LOT of similarities, there are also differences... that can ruin your paint job if you don't understand them. You slapchop with pure inks you're NOT going to be happy with the result, as the paint job will most likely end up a really shiny, runny mess. Use pure contrast or inks as a wash, you'll likely have painted over all of your original detail you were trying to shade.
Those differences are also why I will strongly argue that the 'slapchop' technique is actually new & novel, albeit a natural, obvious evolution from the introduction of contrast-type paints rather than the invention of a certain youtuber whose used it for notoriety & gave it a stupid name. You try the technique with inks, stain varnishes, or wash-type paints, you'll likely be unhappy with the result. The fixes for getting a happy result with those types of paints either involve acquiring additional skills... or altering the paint thru the addition of mediums. It only became an easy 1-2-3 step process with reliable results when we had contrast paints... which were basically designed for a very similar technique. And that's why the technique suddenly became a big deal a few years after contrast paints hit the market.
* = Just to be clear, I hate the term slapchop, but I'm using it here for the sake of brevity. Or in other words, don't at me bro - I agree with you :p
I want to know Duncan's tissue brand, it always looks so pleasingly absorbant
Asking the real questions. Would love to know
Excellent video; do you recommend using only one type of paint on a model? For instance can you use contrast and regular layer paint on the same model, or does the difference in finish look odd?
Watch Juan Hidalgo miniatures here on TH-cam, he does it all the time, starts with contrast and uses regular acrylics for highlights. It can definitely be done and not look odd.
Agreed
As a note, if you get the Army Painter speed paint line (their equivalent of Contrast paints) you gotta be careful doing this. If you want to paint over them, you have to seal the surface after you apply the speedpaint or it'll reactivate when you try to paint over it and mix with the upper layers and onto your brush. The same thing that gives it the smoother finish some people like stops it setting quite the same.
Hi, is thinking the contrast paint with water unnecessary ? I.e. is it designed to go straight on the miniature without mixing?
What if you took a "normal" color (EG Game Color or Model Color) and then added either Flow Improver or actual Contrast/Express Medium? Would you essentially get a contrast/express paint from that normal color?
I am a beginner and have a question.
I want to paint the merchants and marauders ships but they have very light/faint details on the hull of the ship and I want them to look black with brown wood. They are way too small to paint with a detailing brush. Should I paint it brown and then use a black wash or should I use a dark brown speed paint and hope the details look black when it dries?
Do a test with the speed paint on one model and see if you like the result. A gentle, focused drybrush with a lighter colour will help highlight it.
Great video mate! What pallette are you using? I'm assuming it isn't a wet pallette but couldn't quite tell. I've read that you shouldn't use contrast paints on a wet pallette or with your good sable brushes.
I think in this video Duncan is using a ceramic tile as a dry palette (just a plain white tile from a DIY store bathroom tiling departiment). I do the same for my contrast paints, washes and metallics.
I wonder what your feelings are about the recent revision of nuln oil and agrex earthshade. Maybe recommend a viable alternative. I sure do miss the old versions especially agrex - may as well stew up an old tea bag and drap it on the mini for five minutes - would be more effective than the new version.
If you don't want to spend unnecessarily on tons of different paint products, here a trick
Wash = 1 part paint, 1 part medium, 2 part water
Contrast paint = 1 part paint, 2 part medium
you can use inks in place of paints when mixing these formulas, but use less ink than you would use paint because inks have stronger pigmentation
One question I've had for a while, on GW's channel for their tutorials at one point they started replacing the wash step with using contrast paints diluted with contrast medium. Is there any real benefit to this over a wash? Or are they simply trying to show off alternate uses for contrast paints to try to show people they're a valuable part of the toolkit and not just the 'beginner mode' speed painting thing that they originally advertised them as? (for context of a tutorial I mean, the tutorial for Karazai, the Scarred on the underbelly and underside of the wings they paint wraithbone, then a 4:1 mix of contrast medium and skeletal horde, then drybrush wraithbone back over the top.
What is the advantage of doing that over, say, a Reikland Fleshshade or Seraphim Sepia wash?
They get to sell you a contrast paint and a pot of medium rather than a pot of shade. Let's not forget that while the warhammer tv painting videos can be a handy guide they primarily exist for marketing.
There's very little benefit or difference, aside from the wide range of colours that contrast comes in compared with shades, so you can create coloured washes by diluting them. When it comes right down to it the technique you use will determine results whether you wash with seraphim sepia or diluted skeleton horde.
It appears to be a personal choice for the painter. But there is no real difference except that wash is cheaper than a pot of Contrast and Medium. Remember, you can even take your favorite colour and thin it with Lahmian medium to create your own wash too.
This might be a strange question, but is there ever a time when it would make sense to start with a contrast paint and apply a wash over the top once its dried?