Yeah I don't like making videos such as this and wasn't gonna make it, but G Chan's video spread misinfo on this situation. So that's why I decided to make this, to hopefully put some of this fire out. Also, don't leave a comment without finishing the video. Edit: G Chan has made a video talking about this one. We still have some disagrements but we share the overall message of wanting to stop harassment. But the video also shows that we aren't beefing. And I don't want anyone to think that. We had disagreements and talked about them like adults, there's no hate to be found and nobody should harbor any towards G Chan. Here's a link to the video: th-cam.com/video/HJya68-nmuk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=SN6aGAgfjTJJMsxw
@@rain-pj4xq I know, I say that directly in this video. However, by the time he had made a comment about it, a couple thousand of people have already watched his video and some, completely misunderstanding the entire point of it, went off to harass people due to this misinfo.
Common Y'all, We got a Canto that one of it's main Plot point is a Group of Friends Drifting apart because of A Poor Communication, I pray the Situation can be settled Peacefully.
On Zet getting mad about people making fun of him, there was one moment in a LobCorp stream I was watching where we were talking about the Angela announcer and I decided to say something to the effect of “Angela yaps, just like Zet!” In response, Zet decided to remove my agent from gameplay for the rest of the stream. It’s not nearly as bad as banning someone for saying you’re inactive, but I feel that it’s another example of this kind of behavior
It’s always hysterical when a person who has an irrational dislike of others based on their identity gets personally offended when ppl make fun of them for it. The hypocrisy is pathetic, and I hope he’s made fun of forever. Cuz it’s always hysterical how their hatred is okay, but some mild backlash hurts them so bad as if they’re not doing something far worse. They dish it out and think ppl should accept it, but cannot handle it when it’s thrown back at them. The funniest thing is that I learned about this guy from someone who does videos on vtubers, so I’m not even in the PM community. His embarrassing existence is leaking out of the PM community. I’m interesting in PM games after that video, but I hope Zet gets clowned forevermore.
Man that is just petty, a simple joke and the guy decides to remove your nugget. It's especially petty when you consider that it was in Lobcorp, he really just doesn't trust the game to kill said nugget anyway(white night, red mist, arbiter, day 49), he just has to do it himself.
The main take i got from G-Chan after purging the layers of drama and internet activism/journalism was that G-Chan is a old guard and is seeing how the niche and obscure comunity was growing past that state with nostalgia filled sadness. it is almost like Yi sang's history, seeing the League change from passion to profit but instead of staying still, he were looking for a reason to convince others and most importantly himself on Why he needed to leave it behind
You know, this video made me think about Library of Ruina and once again realize that Hokma's floor really was a masterpiece. That whole idea about faith(broadest sense) being the basis of perception, that shit's deep. Like, in order to be able to take a step forward, you have to believe that the floor won't collapse under your foot. At the same time, convince yourself that an old rickety bridge is reliable and you might just fall. But turning away from believing itself will probably leave you in Pluto's position. Ah, the weight of human existence! Anyways, don't mind me, just vibing.
Honestly so real. When i first got to hokma's story in LoR, i didnt really understand a lot of what the old man is talking about. But looking back on it now, its quite profound.
Funnily enough, there's actually someone who did (sorta) go down that "turning away from belief itself" idea rabbit hole, a guy named Descartes who created the "I think therefor I am" quote in the process. The extreme over-simplification of his argument was, your perception of things are able to be wrong so for the sake of the arguement, they ARE wrong. You saw a spider on the wall, but it was actually a spec of dust? Your vision was wrong, so therefor you can't trust your vision at all. You thought you heard someone call your name but it was unrelated? Your hearing can't be trusted at all. And so on and so forth until he finally gets to the point that "All of reality is an illusion I've made up in my head", but the one thing that he fundamentally can't ever truly mistrust is the fact he's mistrusting things, which means "he" exists. If he didn't exist, there would be no mind to even trust or distrust in the first place, so the only thing he can know is that "I think, therefor I exist". He goes on to use that basis to "prove" the existence of an all mighty and all powerful God in the process, and because he must exist, reality must also exist even if Desartes sometimes is mistaken about what he sees/hears/feels in it, which personally isn't an argument without it's flaws. But when I first saw the conversation between Hokma and Pluto, my mind snapped back to him as it shows just how far Pluto has gone off the deep end. The only thing he could ever believe in was Argalia's fantastic promise of a world without lies because of how much he refused to have any faith in reality, and yet Descartes effectively went down the same rabbit hole yet ended up concluding that reality IS real and he's just the mistaken one. Just like Hokma says, without faith, even if there's a path, you can never progress forward as doubts and worries will just bog you down. Unless you are willing to believe that you are making progress and aren't merely running in circles, you end up running in circles and making no progress. You don't need to be 100% absolutely certain about everything, or even anything, but having no certainty about anything at all just leads to running in circles all the same.
it's a lot easier to be neutral on the subject when you ignore 90% of the facts of one side and raise up" calling someone cringe" as harassment for the other, thank you for the deeper dive into this and especially Zet's horrid behavior.
It astounds me how deep ZET was into the rhetoric before people took a look and realized that he was, in fact, not just doing a bit. Like what you showed, he's been doing those retweets for a *while* but because twitter is a hellsite nobody bothered actually checking because it was only being put in front of people who already had those opinions (or didn't know better).
I had those same exact feelings of seeing how vile Zet believes in. But now, I just feel disgusted whenever he is mentioned now. Like what Tsunul said, if he ever makes a video defending in what believes, hear him out, make your own opinions about it and just move on.
I would say, being a good example for the community, is what being a pillar is, not being some moral figure that writes out the Hammurabi's code but for limbus fans, but just living it out, welcoming people to the fandom, being positive, passionate and fair-minded. And I think you do a pretty good job of that, so keep truckin on.
I feel like that GIF of the guy who has pizza entering into a flaming house in full chaos. I am literally just enjoying the game over the summer holidays, and then come back to this buffoonery. True clownery.
Nowhere near as bad as everything zet has done but a while back he did a giveaway where he gave away limbus company merch, my friend was the winner but due to shipping it wasn't worth it so he asked zet if it was possible to let me have the prize and he agreed. I gave him all the info needed to ship it to me and never received it. I reached out on stream to ask about it multiple times and I was ignored every time except one where he just said i'm too lazy to go to the post office but i'll do it eventually. I still haven't received anything after several months.
I don't know how Zet, with a small community manages to be SO ungrateful to any of his fans, (like literally banning anyone even if a long time fan) when so many other small streamers I know are glad to have even just a community
Somehow I completely slept the entire "conflict" and go for grinding, did leave the comment about fandom, after reading comments. Comments can say more, then video itself
24:24 about his Discord. Still can't forgive, that he banned my friend, cause Zet is losing the argument and my friend go balls. I rarely come into his Discord, so can't say about any of misfortune shenanigans going in there 25:09 that's where I can prove everything. I saw some weird things going in there. Throwing all type of stuff there, I saw some things
I want to congratulate Zet with the "most illiterate project moon fan" award. For being Anti-Semitic in a franchise the is HEAVILY inspired by Jewish iconography (like seriously lobcorp is your favourite pmoon game how tf did you mess up that bad) On a more serious note, just wanted to say thanks for making this video. I've always felt like calls to neutrality were very weird in that I personally believe that most forms of it are just silent support for the status quo. And in many ways, just cant be done, when someone is being bigoted the only way to be truly "neutral" would be to be silent on the matter, and not being called out for their terrible behaviour is only going to empower them more to continue. I really do want this community to be a safe space and it's such a massive shame how a really vocal minority can define the rest of the community which from my experience, have been completely wonderful. Anyway good luck on making that next video and then enjoy that vacation rest, thats enough controversy for 1 month.
Hes also in a fandom where one of the best chapters that got released was about a lesbian out for revenge (or bi) not to mention classical literature used for the characters is so heavily queer coded it attracted a queer audience too.
Man, I hate how much of a dark turn our community turned, I remember joining this place and feeling right at home because everyone was nice and chill, at least from my experience, and it infuriates me to see Zet’s greed and carelessness, treating the people who watch him as tools more than family. His behavior is inexcusable, and I don’t wish to support him anymore, since then I was so unaware of what he was doing, thanks for this Tsunul, I hope your day is well in Canada, see you next vid
@@SenorFluffy Insidious Tsunulification (I wanted to post some stats from Ahab fight but HOLY SHI SOMEONE RAIDED AHAB PAGE ON LC WIKI AND NOW IT LOOKS LIKE A TH-cam POOP.)
Hey Tsunul, great video!! I'm gonna leave some comments/reacts as I go through it (and don't worry, I won't post this til I'm done watching it entirely lmaooo). Sorry if it's a lot (i yap). 100% agree with your section on why G-chan's video seems to fall flat. Your points outline clearly why I felt "off" about it even though I understood what G-chan was getting at, but how the audience reacted to it is definitely the issue. I feel that the need to "show, not JUST tell" is something that comes with experience, and I know G-chan doesn't exactly do videos akin to our commentary vids so it's definitely just a lack of expertise. I also feel like, with my own vid on Zet, I could've done better (but I suppose any video I make can be "better" in hindsight) representing more of his hateful bigotry, though honestly he went SOOO much worse after he got removed from the charity tbh, and that was sadly after my video. On the section with the artist, I'm appalled at how poorly Zet treated her. :( Omg. The section where Zet just b*tched LIVE on stream is actually just disgusting behavior. I can't imagine EVER doing that, not even for a bit, because it's just so... mean??? Bro really had something going for him until his ungrateful arse just sh*t all over the place. My god. I hope she's doing alright, and thank you for giving her a voice in your video. Oh my god this section of Zet's character just gets progressively worse how the hell do you be this much of a scumbag 😭 And 26:53 NAHHH LMAOOO Everything about conclusion: Based and 100% I agree. Even if you're younger than me. >:( (i'm not actually mad but damn do i feel old 💀) Keep up the amazing work, Tsunul. Sorry you had to make this video in the first place, but def get a vacation after the PMUA one LMAO. You deserve it man.
G-Chan said all they wanted to say with what they knew of the situation, and then said they will distance themselves from the fandom. Zet was awful, got what he deserved, moving on. Meanwhile, I see your & Tsunul's coverage of this as politically motivated rhetoric that focuses more on the politics behind ZET as a person instead of his character you're trying to criticize. The only relevant part to me here is that ZET chose to put politics ahead of professional etiquette kinda like what I expect you to do in reaction to me questioning yours.
@@Tsunul Already did, doesn't change my verdict of the situation. He decided to be grossly unprofessional & then used politics against his retractors thinking that the right will just waltz in to defend his behind. You spent too much time obsessing over his retweets when all you needed to show was the proof right there. When you're dealing with someone with tendencies to whip out the politics card, you wanna make sure to be as concise with your arguments as possible while making sure that you don't give them the opportunity to waive your criticism away as political agenda.
If someone had told me the following events that would happen over me drawing the silly blue haired agent with a pride flag on pride month I prob would have laughed in disbelief... Honestly happy that my silly little drawing managed to bring light into Zet's horrible actions. Great video Tsunul, hope that you do manage to get some rest from all the heavily charged topics.
@@rotonek2887 Bring politics is like, "!hey! Be is RIGHT, if you dont like this then you are " (movies, arts, music etc) but this, is just Bong bong art holding a pride flag (Bong bong not even is lore character) Edit: Btw good art
@@ANightattheOpera28honestly for me it's the heat, it's more people losing energy or getting pissed off due to how high the temperature gets (especially in other countries in South Asia to mention a few)
Zet has reached level of can't read that surpasses even the worst cases of Dragon Ball fans not knowing the franchise's basic plot beats, none of them reach Anti-Semite whose fav game is super Jewish tier.
@@Peppers_mintusok and? its a character just because she was made by 4channers doesnt mean she cant be drawn by anyone else, there are people who wont even respect when an artist doesnt want porn drawn of their characters what makes you think people give a fuck about a character coming from 4 chan or not, also, theres gay people on 4chan ? not sure what youre trying to say here
I've been into Genshin impacts fandom and honestly, IT IS Worser than PM. (If you know the recent westernization bend the knees by them). all gacha games have incels, simps, and fanatic fans, it is normal. even at big games like elden ring, etc. but Genshin? They will send you death threats even at just mispronouncing their name(tighnari case) and would attacked a Straight fucking ship, and lots of atrocious deeds that is way too long to be listed. PM had problems, but comparing to genshin is like a broken leg to an amputating a leg.
Honestly, I think the reason why gachas attract so much weirdos is because that's whom the companies pray on. "Come here for the sexy women and gamble away your kids' college funds!" After all, if they weren't targeting mentally ill people, most of the companies would be bankrupt by now. Why? Because would mentally health people splurge money on their games? Unless they can afford it, no. But mentally ill people might do it regardless, to feel normal or happy.
Fr as a fan of both you should NOT participate in genshin fandom. They're Leopards ready to rip your face off. I found a few small communities that are wholesome, but dont dip into the bigger pond.
The last game literally had themes of dehumanization in the form of the AI Ethics Ammendment and gave a comprehensive step by step guide on how not to be a horrible person despite horrible life circumatances through the main duo's character arcs which only unfolded because characters were speaking authentically, trying to avoid miscommunication even if they didnt agree on things. Genuinely, it baffles me how this stuff can even happen. Yeah sure there will always be outliers but the current state of things still baffles me.
We have a chapter in canto 5 about how vengeance and hate can turn you in what you hate. But as you can see, a lot of people don't take that to their heart and decide is fine to harass and try to destroy the life of someone who put stupid dumb twits and can't shut up, feeding hate in both sides. Sooo...
@@theoldmanofthemountain7514 is this another g chan? Dude i don’t think you got canto 5 fully ahab still deserved to be punished anyway obviously harassing zet is not good but frankly he is a horrible person he is destroying his own life because people choose not to engage or help such a bigoted individual.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Ahab got punished when she didn't got what she wanted, that was Ishmael becoming what she is and losing her whale. Her reason of hate. But you acted how Ahab wanted, filled with hate, harassing the harasser. You clearly didn't understand the point. He can be a horrible person, but you shouldn't be a horrible person because other is. I'm tired of people excusing themselfs and their horrible actions because of the other being mean, because that is what makes you the same monster. That's why Ishmael didn't killed Ahab. Because killing Ahab would make Ishmael what she hates, Ishmael would have become Ahab if she followed the cycle of hate. The community instead choose to fight Zeti by being bigots, trying to cancel him, and harassing him... So exactly how they see Zeti. They became Zeti. You don't seem to notice how he sees the community the same way as the community see him. His punishment would be that him will be alone at the end, consumed by his hate as everyone proved that the community, indeed, don't care about his stupid takes and is mature enough to move on from a sad dude saying silly things on internet. You would have proof him how so wrong he is. How his hate is stupid. He wanted to have the community prove him right, and people gave him. The community is the Ishmael who throw the arpoon to Ahab instead to the heart of the Whale. So yeah, i think you are the one who didn't understanded Canto V at all.
I used to be part of Zet community a long time ago and yeah he never cared for his community, like you said he would ban people for stupid reasons and never ban the people who was causing actual problems like posting gore and stuff. quick edit: Also thanks for making this vid
Hmm it seems like Tsunul is one of the best sources of info on PM drama, I should lis... Tsunul: Don't view me like someone who is a full honest to god mentor. Me: Oh, am I part of the problem?
I just decided to use all of my power to support PM rather than trying to be a judgement bird in common internet issues. Sometimes ignoring is the best way to deal with issues.
ive only watched saphera's video on zet & had no idea about g chan's but i appreciate you addressing this, hopefully it clears up a lot of the misinfo 🤞🏻
also super valid statement on your role in the community at the end, i hope you can get a good break from all the lack of brainpower that's online and make fun stuff you want to make
I feel like sapheras video should have been more serious and less things like having a quiz test in the middle of a drama video. Now I didn't really go through the entire video as I have skipped the last part where it's going to be mostly about pmoon universe's story and stuff, but these really didn't feel needed or necessary to be included within a video that's mainly going to be addressing a drama situation. There is also a comment of her asking if she has gotten anyone interested in project moon games, now I'm not saphera and I don't know what her goal is with the video and the comment but it just feels bad.
@@rain-pj4xq from what i can see, saphera is primarily a drama channel and probably wrote the script a certain way to maintain engagement and attention to the video -- same thing for the pinned comment. i don't have an issue with it but i understand how someone that's looking for straightforward info on the issue may not like that sort of formatting.
So glad to hear you ACTUALLY talk to the people zet's wronged! I was really excited when I heard you talked directly to one of his mods (friends w/ his mods and also manta) and I AM SO GLAD you showed off how he actively disrespects his community! :-D!! It was something he's always been bad at.
@@Sloshmael_Sweep I mean, did he really? I get that he *probably* participated in the event that spawned BongBong, but even then I thought it was a generally agreed upon fact that BongBong was a randomly generated nugget.
Jesus christ this ain't a PM community drama it's just a content creator drama. I'm just gonna go back to my rabbit hole and wait for the next Limbus update in peace
Ikr, just because of one individual being negative which is a problem that could be in any community, making it look that the drama is about the community as a whole...i dunno man🤨
If he is in the PM community it's technically PM community drama, like when there was drama with Tectone it was hoyo community drama, so on and so forth
@ultimateidiot2344 it's literally just content creators and their quarrel, in what way is the community at large affected? Nothing about the games is being affected and PM community is WAY too busy with the hype around Murder on The Warp than some drama that's passed for a while. PMs community ain't affected but the community of the content creators certainly is
@@josienakamura4967 that is how all drama is labeled online tho, the title of the video lets it pretty clear, its about the content creators in the title and since the PM community is involved its also in there
>Do you love the community you live in? I didn't really care much for the drama in gaming communities I'm in, saw the Zet drama and just went "wow, what an asshole" and ended off at that, glad I watched this video fully to know that he is definitely an asshole and a lot of miscommunication and misinformation happened, just glad to get some clear insight thanks to your perspective
Zets vtuber artist literally said on twitter that zet scammed her and underpaid for the model, then the truth came out through screenshots that the artist set the price first and Zet didnt have any influence on it, didnt pressure or anything, he just asked for the cost and then paid what the artist said, after that came out they said "yeah but you didnt tell me to charge you more so you scammed me" imagine asking someone to charge you MORE, people only took the artists side because they hate zet
As someone who has been in his discord server since 2019, i find this video incredible entertaining and basically everything that was said about how bad his server is true, though they obviously are some good people in it
When I first watched G-Chan's video, I thought he made some good points about how easily radicalised people on the internet tend to be. Hell, I'm sure the titular elf on the shelf must've been radicalised at some point in his life to get like this. I've long agreed with the sentiment that the motive of "doing the right thing" can be very easily twisted. While I felt that some parts of it were lacking, like how its example of a creator egging on their community was EGSOO calling zet cringe, it was a video that painted a picture on how communities will end up looking like if we don't strive to be better than the people we are condeming, and I just left it at that without looking too deep into it because I don't want to make a habit of immersing myself in drama and honestly, I'd rather not delve into the tweets of a man who's on a schizo posting spree. Though I did have an idea of what to expect from zet if I did decide to look into it, and this video confirms that and so much more. What I didn't expect was how much G-Chan left out of his video. While I still agree with what some of what G-Chan is trying to say, he ended up proving his own point in the worst possible way. And the worst part is, I did the same thing. Had I been just a little more active on social media, I probably would have ended up spreading misinformation based on something I took at face value and didn't bother looking too into. I must say, it was an incredibly haunting experience, but an ultimately humbling one. Also, on a MUCH lighter note: YOU'RE 21 YEARS OLD?!
10:19 So, thats me. I think you where completely missing what i was saying there my friend, i was making fun of zet himself and his opinions on gay people, being a gay man myself
Yeah that's what I was showing. I said that comments like yours are ones that are displaying Zet's character. Talking about his beliefs. And I was saying how stuff like that is fine in my opinion.
As a conservative man myself i see zet as detestable i may not be able to understand the lgbtq+ doesn't mean i dont want you lot to exist. Are they bad actors that use this ideology for their own profit? Yes, but i can say that of my own beliefs as well. Anyone has the ability has the potential to be morally bankrupt no matter which "side" your on so no matter what dont just side with someone just cuz your quality is aligned to some extent. I love this community, at least the part that i participate in that deepdives into the lore. Diversety in thought is greatest gift we have in a community, i want everyone to cherish that fact.
I can certainly say he was incredibly irresponsible especially considering the social climate in 2020s. You can't just accuse an entire community of criminal behavior and expect to not get bonked for it if it is false, yet there he was doing it anyway.
@@sintheemptyone8108 let me quote tsunul you really expect a dude who “…. If he went outside for once he would be a grand wizard” to know any reasonability? Bigoted people are not reasonable especially the ones who are deep into it.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle It's your types' own pursuit for revenge masquerading as social justice for your "tribe", the chasing of personal & tribal benefit at the expense of everyone else, that created people like ZET who would be swayed by the opposing side to do the exact same to you. You made that personal hell for yourself, reduced them to nothing more than scapegoats to blame your life's problems on, and now you complain to me when the inevitable happens. It's the same deal with punks like ZET, you're like bullies who never grew out of high school days thinking that adults with their own problems to sort out would care about your petty antics.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Thing is, ZET is just a right-wing version of what can happen to you as well. Sure, he in particular has the extra reprehensible behavior of screwing an artist over, something that would get him chastised out of the ENVtuber scene if he was any more popular than he was, but point still stands. Which is to say, someone who is way too obsessed with their own circles and blinded by their own lack of faith in others on social media to realize that just because someone has conflicting views about something doesn't mean they are automatically trying to plot their downfall. By choosing to double down in building trenches & painting devils on the walls, eventually one can't see anything over the walls they've built blocking their own sight of reality.
Honestly, a lot of people underestimate the speed with which internet move on from conflicts, a lot of people just unsubscribed from zet amd forgot about it a week later, g-chan just brought unwanted attention to something what should've become a history already
sir.... you really need a fucken vacation.. also i knew something was lacking here and there in not just G-Chans vid but also everywhere else (i dont follow the drama's for my own sanity, only listen to them when im drawing) so good to see SOMEONE is making sure that at least 99% of spoken info can be backed up with source and such
I really hate that people like this keep popping up. Zet was one of the first people I collabed with and I had no idea about what he was like until this drama started. I really hope that this stuff stops happening because it just makes me less and less interested with pursuing content creation. I'm glad to now have people that I can trust in my community.
oh man this is eye oppening actually, i thought zet just had one bad take and looked like he could be "redeemed" and you and esgoo just straight up wanted to make hell on him. this video made me question every "documentary" i've seen on youtube now
Damn, Zet drama. The only thing I remember about him is him arguing with the the entirety of the /lbc/ thread on /vg/. No idea why either, he just popped up and started defending himself from criticism and got mad about everything. I think it was started since some in the thread said zet "doesnt want to do limbus stuff but does it cause it brings views" by dhoeing how zet was vocal about his dislike to a few cantos. I was too busy talking about debaitng the purpose of Sonya in the future story though, so I cant remember more.
I don't know how relevant this is but I honestly just want to say that I really love your recent videos. I used to watch you before because of the limbus content but I feel like these recent long-form videos are definitely some of your best. Every time I see one of these from you I just know that I'm in for an in-depth, detailed and funny breakdown of whatever you're talking about. Great job. (Now to actually watch the video)
I really liked your statement in the final part of the video, where you said people shouldn't look up to you as a paragon and people should learn morality themselfs, because you can make mistakes and do some wrong stuff just like everyone else, this is where other people should warn you and point out that you are wrong just like your friend did with your original script. But if everyone thinks everything you say is right then when you f*ck up there won't be anybody to warn you about what you are doing.
Even if you hate engaging in drama (fair AND real), you did your research, made a solid video, and even covered the artist's POV. Also, shout-outs to your friend who helped you change the tone of the video. I hope to see you do more Ruina mods some day, as I really enjoyed watching you go through Gibbous and even Jealous Flower. Also, you're 21??? YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE 30 HUHHH
As a person who's been a viewer of Zet twitch stream for 3 years it is honestly really sad what he has become these days like the first time I saw him he used to be somewhat chill and stuff but then slowly he becomes a little bit more a bit meaner and meaner and even temporarily banned some people for making texts that are slightly too big. Zet also wanted so bad to reclaim his Glory Days TH-cam popularity with his silent orchestra dance party video even though he rarely go out to his comfort zone and will not stop clinging on project moon. And the things that weird me out with Zet views on LGBT is the fact that he does have lesbian couple moms which is why shocked me when suddenly he made that post on Twitter that day like why would you do like I know he's a jerk but I thought he would be better than this and what's even weirder is in his Discord server welcome trans people to his server before which confuse me even more where did he come across this revelation to have this belief. Honestly I just feel disappointed about him both him as a content creator and as a person, like seriously 3 years 3 years I thought maybe things will get better but instead things get sad and disappointing, I even hope maybe 3 and 5 years later learn maybe be more patience and kinder person in general even towards people who are a bit stupid and don't make take what kind of thought of the consequences.
Man I really appreciate you. Taking the time to make videos like this is a huge undertaking, and I'm glad that the source is someone that has a history of well-thought out analyses. At this point I'm just playing games and waiting for Wild Hunt Heathcliff to drop, I don't have the energy to be angry or anything, just vaguely disappointed, but hopefully the community makes a full recovery from all this. Glory to Kim Ji-Hoon, Glory to Project Moon, blah blah can't wait for the trailer tonight.
I find this content very tiring to watch(community drama content), but I'd like to say I appreciate the effort going out of your way to get the perspective of the artist Zet commissioned. Although I doubt this will be the last of this kind as this content sells and we are an infant community. I do sincerely hope the community takes the general message of G-chans video as well as yours to heart. Which is to not fall into extreme actions and feel emboldened by a sense of community. Take a step back look at the whole perspective and move on. Say your peace if you must but leave it at that. Lynch mobs exists because the people doing them think they are doing it justly, and bad actors will take advantage of that in every case. I will say I do feel for you Tsunul, being a face on the internet makes you a target for everyone's totems of hatred. Been called a homophobe already even though I have a boyfriend. People find any reason to hate. /:
Its a good thing for both of us. I Don't even know half of the things tsunul said in this video. its fucking crazy how 1 platform have so much hate,drama, and other things combined Thats why i don't use twitter, keeping myself off from them kept my sanity sane
Man drama is so tiring, genuinely. The Leviathan kerfuffle is not going anywhere so i advise you take some breather rest. Also ty for this video, appreciate your hard work on compiling these infos and presenting them in this manner.
I usually don't comment much on these kinds of videos and only watch these situations from afar since I stay on the calm side in fandoms, but I like the way you talk about these topics and the comment section on your channel is usually chill enough for me to feel comfortable sharing my thoughts (Wall of text incoming) As other people have commented, I felt that G Chan's video...was lacking? Or at least that's how I felt when I saw it but I couldn't pinpoint the reason why, but your video made me see the situation more clearly so thanks for taking the time to investigate and clarify even if you dont like to make this kind of videos. I choose to believe that G Chan made that video in good faith and to leave a good message but I think his lack of experience in making these kind of videos caused the message to be diluted and backfired, which is kinda sad. The Zet situation took me by surprise, I saw some of his videos but I didn't really frequent his channel, so discovering his behavior on Twitter was...Yikes. I didn't know you could reach such a level. It's quite understandable why people had that reaction to what happened. Although, like you, I think that we should not go to extremes (harassment, death threaths,etc) and I do not think it is necessary to add more fuel to the fire at this point. Zet's actions have already been brought to light, the opinions and discussions that people make with that information is up to each person, the only thing we can do as a community is ignore him and no longer pay attention to him. It's okay if people want to make fun of Zet's bigotry or share their opinion on the subject, but please keep it civil. Leaving that topic aside and focusing more on the PM fandom in general. I understand the feelings of some people but it seems a bit unfair to me to accuse the PM community of becoming rotten based on these incidents, which are not that many compared to other fandoms (Of which the only one that was quite serious for PM and the community was the case of VM and the PMUA stuff). In addition to the fact that we should never trust Twitter when determining how "bad" a fandom is, a lot of hate accumulates there and it is easy to get carried away by that, it is Twitter after all. Maybe I'm biased, but as someone who's been on the internet quite a bit, the PM fandom is one in which I've felt most comfortable. I've been in this fandom since Lobotomy when the community was even more niche and I understand why some feel overwhelmed by the arrival of so many people with Limbus, I've even had feelings of gatekeeping and nostalgia but we have to understand that it is inevitable, the growth of the community would happen sooner or later and that brings the possibility of there being people who give a bad image.We have to learn to live with it and keep in mind that they obviously do not represent the community as a whole, unfortunately, there are people like that everywhere and we cant do much about it. Reading the comments and from what I have seen elsewhere, it makes me sad to see that there are people feeling that they should distance themselves from the fandom. Hate and doomscrolling can greatly affect mental health, I know because I have been through that situation. It's a totally valid decision but it worries me to see people walking away from things they genuinely enjoy because of the negativity that social media makes us absorb or feeling ashamed of the "cringe" by the community I have already said it in other places and I don't know if anyone needs these words but, If you really enjoy something A LOT, don't get carried away by the image or the words of others (and definitely never doomscroll, NEVER, or else you are going to distort) When I learned this and little by little I started to stop doomscrolling, I started to enjoy things more. You don't necessarily have to get to the point of never interacting with a fandom, but it is something you have to learn to regulate. I still interact from time to time since is something i enjoy but without focusing on negative people, I refuse to interact with something if it only gives me headaches and hate. And i mean it, I'm a Hazbin and Hetalia fan, I've been through this soooo many times lol and I know how difficult it can be for some people. I may be cringe but im free. (Sorry of this is too looong, i yap a lot)
Fair and considerate points, sprinkled with Tsunul's trademark humor. This should be how a perspective is shared. Sometimes, people forget that Carmen's "whispers" are a real thing, encouraging people to distort. And it's also a good reminder that not EVERYONE's distorting when bad things happen to them - there's a lot more people who just move on, and there are those who discover themselves and manifest the Ego needed to overcome the moment.
thank you for making this, i was about to make my own video or something because gchan's was so poorly made and bad faith it was pissing me off T-T especially after seeing the community come together during APR. Calling out people for getting things wrong is stupid when you yourself don't fact check anything and can only conjure this dumbass centrist take of 'you're both dumb and i'm better than you!' he just removed all context of the community itself and insisted it sucked because he felt like it. obviously harrassing people is bad but fuck i feel like his vid made me want to do it more lmao
I don't think it was bad faith, I've dmed G Chan for a long time about his video and across the dm's to me it just looks like his video was really misinformed. From everything I know of his character I cannot view his video as bad faith.
@@Tsunul i suppose i don't know him like you would. from a regular viewer perspective it seemed *so* fucking bad when i first saw it, my thoughts were likely on the same track as the first shitty script you mentioned in the vid lol.
Yeah, G-chan's video is made from a place of care for the community. Honestly he had been really worried about it for a long time, scared that the PMoon community becomes the Danganronpa community with how things were. But yeah, Tsunul is right. He's misinformed and missed some crucial facts.
Thank you for the vid, I was so mad about the other video. Some people really grew numb to harassments on the internet, to the point that they would water it down just because they used to like them and repeating their behavior.
I need to wake up early for uni and I'm sick physically, this is the best way for TH-cam to completely break me in every form, thank you algorithm for blessing me 🙏.
I was on the fence of this video at first, thought that you'll just be proving G-Chans video right with how the PM community is just becoming a dogpiling community. But it turned out much better, while the video of his did heavily convince me, i didnt rly even notice the EXTREMELY heavy sugarcoating he did, despite knowing how bad Zets Twitter is, while kinda even misrepresenting the other side and wasnt even aware how bad it even was. Also wasnt rly that aware of how prevelant the bad community bits are in other communities are as well so that also helped a fair bit. it does feel a bit sugarcoat-y but at least that like.. helps a bit to feel less pessimistic about the community in a bit roundabout way(?) Im glad this video ended up being made. Thanks Tsunul
Good video Tsunul, it’s unfortunate G chan’s video failed to address everything entirely and fully accurately. Feels like it was definitely something crafted over time as a boil over of being tired of seeing certain actions. That being said, the fact people instantly went to start harassment basically right after that is.. truly the most mind ruining cyclical situation.
Im glad you made this video. Ive been getting frustrated with some people really underselling just how hateful Zet is, and if anything needs to be said about him more than anything, its that everyone should stay away from him. There is no resoning someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into
This video is a reason why I always tell my sister, "People are dumbass and same as you and me so when you open your mouth, make sure fact check your stamment carefully and embrace the heat because not many have ability to funking do they research and read"
Man I'm just here cuz "Hehe mega corp city bad, funny woman makes people transform" How the hell it goes all over the place every single damn time? Y'all need to raise that sanity level man
I’ve been in this fandom for a long time now, but I’ve only begun making content for it recently. And I gotta say I’m delighted to see this be like, the only issue (related to people in the fandom I’m not touching the swimsuit beehive). And a kinda minor one at that. This fandom is shockingly chill and I’ve received nothing but support and like three sexist comments that I find nothing but funny. Keep it up guys o7
Even though I liked it,I do have felt something was missing, Tsunul covered it well so I say I'm ok (don't feel like to hear more about this mess but oh boi, gotta wait for that one PMUA vid)
I'm not on his side or anything i hate him but people can like a media while ignoring the stuff they oppose, surprisingly i feel like he'd be the type to say that ishmael and queequeg are just friends and totally nothing more
19:40 i don't know why this argument gets me so much. two sides: ppl who spread misinformation against bad people and bigots, leaving neutral people to be radicalized. and then it implies that radicalization will just...push them towards bigotry. it annoys me so much to see it presented that being queer and/or being angry with bigots means that people will become bigots. be quiet about your queerness, and maybe the 'neutral' people will like you! just be nice and quiet and that's how you get seen as a human being! newsflash! if you're radicalized that easily, then you weren't neutral at all! tldr: i hate the implication that being a nice and quiet queer and/or just letting things go will lead to better outcomes...that better outcome being that people who don't care continue to not care
i know im conflating the video's sides to queer and bigotry. i know that not what was directly stated, but still. it just rubs me the wrong way. if you're neutral, you aren't radicalized by people pointing out bigotry. maybe you don't like it, maybe you despise people harassing zet, but you think its good to know, even if people are going too far. if you see people harassing someone over bigotry and you're like 'oh! i better side with the BIGOT' you're just. not neutral i hate that neutrality is presented as something that is truly devoid of any influence or internal perspective, but will repel itself from its hatred of harassment and make a nice home in the hatred of bigotry
@@decasuffrage9021 Respectability politics has always been one of the things I've always hated too. One shouldn't have to be "one of the good ones" to be accepted as even just human. You make a good point there.
@@decasuffrage9021 Motte-bailey fallacy with the anti-bigotry serving as the motte & the resentment for normality, especially religion, serving as the bailey. Your arguments come down to this: you do not believe in freedom of association because it gets in the way of politics.
@@sintheemptyone8108 please explain your point further. ive never heard of the motte-bailey fallacy and since i never mentioned religion anywhere in my comment i think im having a hard time understanding. . i think the point you're trying to make is that im comparing something light (anti-bigotry) to something more serious (resentment for normality???). which immediately runs into the problem of my sides, as per my follow up comment (which u might not have read, im not holding it against you) being queer vs bigotry. following your motte-bailey fallacy, it would be queer-bigotry. and bigotry is a very serious thing?? thinking that queerness is abnormal and against religion is simply. well. bigotry. there are queer people of all religions, even ones that don't welcome them. being queer doesn't make you any less religious, and definitely not any less NORMAL (please correct me if im misinterpreting)
What I fear about spreading misinformation and harassing bad people will scare some neutrals to silence, and possibly even defend bigots. Being queer does not create bigots, but the way people carry themselves can cause judgment. I just hate that there are bad apples who carry the LGBT identity but cause disrepute by doing horrendous shit, this is the kind of things that make Zet feel so valid in his opinions. Even if that kind of logic of (Letting an element of the set represent the whole set) is faulty, it's still in use. There will always be people who judge others on their 'otherness' like being queer, and there will be always some bad behavior in the LGBT community. People who identify as LGBT like me don't need to rescind our sexuality or gender identity to feel validated, but with the way I see it, we shouldn't reduce our presence online or irl as our gender identity, but should carry our genuine selves with dignity and grace. I come from a conservative and community-centered culture, with individualistic influences being spread on us for around a few generations. I was raised to be more concerned on how my actions might bring on to the community, whether it be my family, friends or the LGBT. In this sense being a "quiet queer" was how it did lead to better outcomes , with "quiet" meaning avoiding as much trouble as I could. I'm unapologetic about my sexuality (gay), which although brings undue feedback about myself in the culture I am in, is something I will not back down on. You might see this as being fucked up, but this was how I was conditioned in my family and in the overall culture I was born in.
Dude, this situation doesn't sit right with me for some reason. I mean, watching this video i wonder, what happened to the person who i used to watch because their videos were funny? Honestly, even though Zet is a not-so-good person, i REALLY hope he can have a character development arc or something. TD;LR i hope Zet will apologize and we can put (most) of this behind us. Edit: not related to my original comment but just to put my thoughts here, i think the internet is a downright HORRIBLE place, and one of the only ways to avoid this is to just, not interact with the community. So i really hope in the future that fandoms and communities on the internet will be able to avoid things like this entire situation. (Also why is my edit longer than the first paragraph lol)
@@fajenanonom3062 It's really "huh" inducing how weird some people are about inclusive media. I saw someone comment about the Owl House as an example and someone complaining about its queer cast and whatnot, like bro? That's the point of it. I've also seen it happen in the Funger community, which is overall very wholesome.
the only thing i can conclude from the drama is just "twitter being twitter" with both some PM fans and Zet going full throttle with hate towards each other on twitter with Zet changed so much disconnecting himself with other OGs like Arcangela and allysciel and i also one of those that pointed things about the "VR Model price". Looking this side from Kerocola made some sense to me, but still i hold on to my comment that the deal has been made (idk the rest since she blocked me and others who disagree with her before we know anything other than her previous posts) Your convo with her really made me understand her frustration because i really didn't want to interact with PM community after that. beside, G-Chan probably paint the PM community only from the twitter side with how the "bad representation" from both side is so much vocal than other platform. Other than that you vid made the situation much clear rather than just hearing other misinformation throwed left and right by both sides lmao
I'm never doubting the "PM fans lack reading comprehension" joke again after learning about Zet's manchild takes. Does he just skip the story in every PM game?
Yeah I don't like making videos such as this and wasn't gonna make it, but G Chan's video spread misinfo on this situation. So that's why I decided to make this, to hopefully put some of this fire out. Also, don't leave a comment without finishing the video.
Edit: G Chan has made a video talking about this one. We still have some disagrements but we share the overall message of wanting to stop harassment. But the video also shows that we aren't beefing. And I don't want anyone to think that. We had disagreements and talked about them like adults, there's no hate to be found and nobody should harbor any towards G Chan. Here's a link to the video: th-cam.com/video/HJya68-nmuk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=SN6aGAgfjTJJMsxw
@@Tsunul Well I do hope that video will make people think carefully.
I think clearing up the Misinfo in this shitstorm is worth it, appreciated
G chan has already addressed misinformation in the comments tho and even pinned the comment
clearing up misinformation and taking the time to make such vids, is truly the greatest thing you can do to a community
@@rain-pj4xq I know, I say that directly in this video. However, by the time he had made a comment about it, a couple thousand of people have already watched his video and some, completely misunderstanding the entire point of it, went off to harass people due to this misinfo.
Alright. Expect a Mili song soon for the bossfight the community is having rn.
What a Funny^2 comment
I think a mashup with Gone Angels would work
Can't wait for the tsunul pass on cover!!!
we be literally between two worlds with this one
Kim Ji-hoon only wants to make cool games based on his fanfics and shares it to everyone, why do the bad lucks focus on him like magnet to steel?
His peak fiction manifests into the reality.
@@БруноБуччелати-н6б life imitates art as they say
Because most people listen to Carmen
@@БруноБуччелати-н6б
P-moon City isn't Real.
It Can't hurt us.
.
.
.
.
.
Right ❓
@@bimoprasetyo6862seems like someone hasn’t visited Ohio yet
Common Y'all,
We got a Canto that one of it's main Plot point is a Group of Friends Drifting apart because of A Poor Communication,
I pray the Situation can be settled Peacefully.
That was 5 right?
@@jojogacha974 4 Obviously
G Corp, Yurodivy, Sinclair Home-life,
League of 9, Pequod-Crew, Blade-lineage, Edgard Family Butler's....
- The Choice is yours.
Ironically, Canto V could be applied as some people really have a blind obsession with harassing others
@@monochrome4937could twitter be considered the equivalent of pequod town
I’m starting to reach my limit
I'm starting to reach my limit
I'm starting to reach my limit
Im starting to reach my limit ima bout to burst
I'm Gonna Distort,
Hit the Mental Cap.
I'm starting to reach my limit
Im gonna fucking distort man. Maybe Carmen had a point, dawg.
This post really had (on read: lose 20 sanity) effect on me.
@@GivingGamingGrantThe rare chance a PM fan can read.
@@ItsSanchover I'm cooked
I came back from Post-Distortion Clarity. 10/0 I would distort again
And i can assure you we regret it @@ItsSanchover
On my Outis shrine. Straight up Odysseying it. And by "it". Lets just say my purpose.
On my Meursalt shrine. Straight up tightening it. And by “it”. Let’s just say my multitude
Holy shit is that Lesbian game PFP
On my Sinclair shrine. Straight up severing it. And by “it”. Let’s just say my own two hands.
On my Don Quixote shrine. Straight up Prevailing it. And by "it". Lets just say my justice.
On my Heathcliff shrine. Straight up Shoving it. And by "it". Lets just say my bag.
says he is bi, never kissed sinclair once.
bro is a liar and he fell off
Well he DID get his hands on and wore Sinclair's clothes. One step at a time, you know?
On Zet getting mad about people making fun of him, there was one moment in a LobCorp stream I was watching where we were talking about the Angela announcer and I decided to say something to the effect of “Angela yaps, just like Zet!” In response, Zet decided to remove my agent from gameplay for the rest of the stream. It’s not nearly as bad as banning someone for saying you’re inactive, but I feel that it’s another example of this kind of behavior
It’s always hysterical when a person who has an irrational dislike of others based on their identity gets personally offended when ppl make fun of them for it. The hypocrisy is pathetic, and I hope he’s made fun of forever. Cuz it’s always hysterical how their hatred is okay, but some mild backlash hurts them so bad as if they’re not doing something far worse. They dish it out and think ppl should accept it, but cannot handle it when it’s thrown back at them.
The funniest thing is that I learned about this guy from someone who does videos on vtubers, so I’m not even in the PM community. His embarrassing existence is leaking out of the PM community. I’m interesting in PM games after that video, but I hope Zet gets clowned forevermore.
@@aaadyb5790 The insecurity leaked out.
@@BelBelle468Which channel, might I ask?
Ok and
Man that is just petty, a simple joke and the guy decides to remove your nugget. It's especially petty when you consider that it was in Lobcorp, he really just doesn't trust the game to kill said nugget anyway(white night, red mist, arbiter, day 49), he just has to do it himself.
Project moon fans is currently on their core meltdown phase, gotta beat that boss fight to reach the realization
HOLD ON TIGHT.
OUR COMPASS IS CURIOSITY.
OUR COMPASS IS CURIOSITY.
And when we reach realization, peace is achieved... unless someone releases the birds.
I feel like at this point we're up to Tiphereth's suppression, and currently PM taking GCS/PMUA to court is Geburah's
Naw, we fully distorting.
@@VBandit47 (Carmen would like to know your location)
The main take i got from G-Chan after purging the layers of drama and internet activism/journalism was that G-Chan is a old guard and is seeing how the niche and obscure comunity was growing past that state with nostalgia filled sadness.
it is almost like Yi sang's history, seeing the League change from passion to profit but instead of staying still, he were looking for a reason to convince others and most importantly himself on Why he needed to leave it behind
You know, this video made me think about Library of Ruina and once again realize that Hokma's floor really was a masterpiece. That whole idea about faith(broadest sense) being the basis of perception, that shit's deep. Like, in order to be able to take a step forward, you have to believe that the floor won't collapse under your foot. At the same time, convince yourself that an old rickety bridge is reliable and you might just fall. But turning away from believing itself will probably leave you in Pluto's position. Ah, the weight of human existence!
Anyways, don't mind me, just vibing.
Honestly so real.
When i first got to hokma's story in LoR, i didnt really understand a lot of what the old man is talking about. But looking back on it now, its quite profound.
So, hokma balls
Wittgenstein moment
@@blizarion2477 chokma balls
Funnily enough, there's actually someone who did (sorta) go down that "turning away from belief itself" idea rabbit hole, a guy named Descartes who created the "I think therefor I am" quote in the process. The extreme over-simplification of his argument was, your perception of things are able to be wrong so for the sake of the arguement, they ARE wrong. You saw a spider on the wall, but it was actually a spec of dust? Your vision was wrong, so therefor you can't trust your vision at all. You thought you heard someone call your name but it was unrelated? Your hearing can't be trusted at all. And so on and so forth until he finally gets to the point that "All of reality is an illusion I've made up in my head", but the one thing that he fundamentally can't ever truly mistrust is the fact he's mistrusting things, which means "he" exists. If he didn't exist, there would be no mind to even trust or distrust in the first place, so the only thing he can know is that "I think, therefor I exist".
He goes on to use that basis to "prove" the existence of an all mighty and all powerful God in the process, and because he must exist, reality must also exist even if Desartes sometimes is mistaken about what he sees/hears/feels in it, which personally isn't an argument without it's flaws. But when I first saw the conversation between Hokma and Pluto, my mind snapped back to him as it shows just how far Pluto has gone off the deep end. The only thing he could ever believe in was Argalia's fantastic promise of a world without lies because of how much he refused to have any faith in reality, and yet Descartes effectively went down the same rabbit hole yet ended up concluding that reality IS real and he's just the mistaken one.
Just like Hokma says, without faith, even if there's a path, you can never progress forward as doubts and worries will just bog you down. Unless you are willing to believe that you are making progress and aren't merely running in circles, you end up running in circles and making no progress. You don't need to be 100% absolutely certain about everything, or even anything, but having no certainty about anything at all just leads to running in circles all the same.
too busy grinding mirror dungeon to notice any of this going on until this video, wowie
it's a lot easier to be neutral on the subject when you ignore 90% of the facts of one side and raise up" calling someone cringe" as harassment for the other, thank you for the deeper dive into this and especially Zet's horrid behavior.
Eeeeey, Gnome! Didn't expect you here! Keep up the great work!
Based gnome being based
love you gnomw keep up the good work (:
It astounds me how deep ZET was into the rhetoric before people took a look and realized that he was, in fact, not just doing a bit. Like what you showed, he's been doing those retweets for a *while* but because twitter is a hellsite nobody bothered actually checking because it was only being put in front of people who already had those opinions (or didn't know better).
Man i used to watch zet a lot when i first entered the pm community, then i ended up finding out the vile beliefs he has and like ... damn
I had those same exact feelings of seeing how vile Zet believes in. But now, I just feel disgusted whenever he is mentioned now. Like what Tsunul said, if he ever makes a video defending in what believes, hear him out, make your own opinions about it and just move on.
I would say, being a good example for the community, is what being a pillar is, not being some moral figure that writes out the Hammurabi's code but for limbus fans, but just living it out, welcoming people to the fandom, being positive, passionate and fair-minded. And I think you do a pretty good job of that, so keep truckin on.
I feel like Foreman is a good one even if they aren't a PM tuber. Maybe them not being someone who hyper focuses on it and just plays the game helps.
imagine being based (easy for Tsunul)
Ong, he really cooked with this one.
imagine being Esgoo (easy for Esgoo)
Esgoo always going for the shock and awe like a true Californian 🦅🦅🦅
omg is this ESGOO the limbus youtuber
Based.... BASED ON WHAT
an actually good book with good characterization and good aesop?
I feel like that GIF of the guy who has pizza entering into a flaming house in full chaos.
I am literally just enjoying the game over the summer holidays, and then come back to this buffoonery. True clownery.
ayoo, prepare for wild hunt anf Walpurginacht? same.
Literally me.
COMMUNITY MENTIONED
6 SEASONS AND A MOVIE
@@mitacestalia7532Guess who’s rn.
Truly, no fandom can escape community drama...
Nowhere near as bad as everything zet has done but a while back he did a giveaway where he gave away limbus company merch, my friend was the winner but due to shipping it wasn't worth it so he asked zet if it was possible to let me have the prize and he agreed. I gave him all the info needed to ship it to me and never received it. I reached out on stream to ask about it multiple times and I was ignored every time except one where he just said i'm too lazy to go to the post office but i'll do it eventually. I still haven't received anything after several months.
Love the video,now put the maid outfit
Dont forget the cat ears
@@CapriCapiCap and the cat paws
@@GivingGamingGrant and the cat tail
@@waterized_plus_bottle and the....no no more.....I don't wish to be horny anymore.
I WISH TO BE HAPPY
WITH NONE OF THIS DRAMA HAPPENING.
@@waterized_plus_bottle and the programmer socks
I don't know how Zet, with a small community manages to be SO ungrateful to any of his fans, (like literally banning anyone even if a long time fan) when so many other small streamers I know are glad to have even just a community
im so close to throwing my compass into the sea
Y'know what?
Carmen is slowly starting to make more sense by the day.
Ok...
Wdym I didn’t make much sense?
Somehow I completely slept the entire "conflict" and go for grinding, did leave the comment about fandom, after reading comments.
Comments can say more, then video itself
24:24 about his Discord. Still can't forgive, that he banned my friend, cause Zet is losing the argument and my friend go balls. I rarely come into his Discord, so can't say about any of misfortune shenanigans going in there
25:09 that's where I can prove everything. I saw some weird things going in there. Throwing all type of stuff there, I saw some things
I was a fan of zet and now I feel like “Stagger +++”
I want to congratulate Zet with the "most illiterate project moon fan" award. For being Anti-Semitic in a franchise the is HEAVILY inspired by Jewish iconography (like seriously lobcorp is your favourite pmoon game how tf did you mess up that bad)
On a more serious note, just wanted to say thanks for making this video. I've always felt like calls to neutrality were very weird in that I personally believe that most forms of it are just silent support for the status quo. And in many ways, just cant be done, when someone is being bigoted the only way to be truly "neutral" would be to be silent on the matter, and not being called out for their terrible behaviour is only going to empower them more to continue. I really do want this community to be a safe space and it's such a massive shame how a really vocal minority can define the rest of the community which from my experience, have been completely wonderful.
Anyway good luck on making that next video and then enjoy that vacation rest, thats enough controversy for 1 month.
Hes also in a fandom where one of the best chapters that got released was about a lesbian out for revenge (or bi) not to mention classical literature used for the characters is so heavily queer coded it attracted a queer audience too.
Meh a lot of christians are actually anti semetic
Man, I hate how much of a dark turn our community turned, I remember joining this place and feeling right at home because everyone was nice and chill, at least from my experience, and it infuriates me to see Zet’s greed and carelessness, treating the people who watch him as tools more than family. His behavior is inexcusable, and I don’t wish to support him anymore, since then I was so unaware of what he was doing, thanks for this Tsunul, I hope your day is well in Canada, see you next vid
I'm up Tsunuling my shit rn
The Tsunulification is unstoppable.
Insidious Tsunulification
Who else up Tsunulizing
Holy shit is Homophobic Roland
@@SenorFluffy Insidious Tsunulification
(I wanted to post some stats from Ahab fight but HOLY SHI
SOMEONE RAIDED AHAB PAGE ON LC WIKI AND NOW IT LOOKS LIKE A TH-cam POOP.)
Hey Tsunul, great video!! I'm gonna leave some comments/reacts as I go through it (and don't worry, I won't post this til I'm done watching it entirely lmaooo). Sorry if it's a lot (i yap).
100% agree with your section on why G-chan's video seems to fall flat. Your points outline clearly why I felt "off" about it even though I understood what G-chan was getting at, but how the audience reacted to it is definitely the issue. I feel that the need to "show, not JUST tell" is something that comes with experience, and I know G-chan doesn't exactly do videos akin to our commentary vids so it's definitely just a lack of expertise. I also feel like, with my own vid on Zet, I could've done better (but I suppose any video I make can be "better" in hindsight) representing more of his hateful bigotry, though honestly he went SOOO much worse after he got removed from the charity tbh, and that was sadly after my video.
On the section with the artist, I'm appalled at how poorly Zet treated her. :( Omg. The section where Zet just b*tched LIVE on stream is actually just disgusting behavior. I can't imagine EVER doing that, not even for a bit, because it's just so... mean??? Bro really had something going for him until his ungrateful arse just sh*t all over the place. My god. I hope she's doing alright, and thank you for giving her a voice in your video.
Oh my god this section of Zet's character just gets progressively worse how the hell do you be this much of a scumbag 😭 And 26:53 NAHHH LMAOOO
Everything about conclusion: Based and 100% I agree. Even if you're younger than me. >:( (i'm not actually mad but damn do i feel old 💀)
Keep up the amazing work, Tsunul. Sorry you had to make this video in the first place, but def get a vacation after the PMUA one LMAO. You deserve it man.
Thanks a lot lol, I'm prolly gonna distort while making the PMUA one. I will be taking a long long rest when that ones done.
G-Chan said all they wanted to say with what they knew of the situation, and then said they will distance themselves from the fandom. Zet was awful, got what he deserved, moving on.
Meanwhile, I see your & Tsunul's coverage of this as politically motivated rhetoric that focuses more on the politics behind ZET as a person instead of his character you're trying to criticize. The only relevant part to me here is that ZET chose to put politics ahead of professional etiquette kinda like what I expect you to do in reaction to me questioning yours.
@@sintheemptyone8108 See the entirety of 12:20 - 16:27 and then also most of 22:27 - 26:44
@@Tsunul Already did, doesn't change my verdict of the situation. He decided to be grossly unprofessional & then used politics against his retractors thinking that the right will just waltz in to defend his behind. You spent too much time obsessing over his retweets when all you needed to show was the proof right there.
When you're dealing with someone with tendencies to whip out the politics card, you wanna make sure to be as concise with your arguments as possible while making sure that you don't give them the opportunity to waive your criticism away as political agenda.
If someone had told me the following events that would happen over me drawing the silly blue haired agent with a pride flag on pride month I prob would have laughed in disbelief...
Honestly happy that my silly little drawing managed to bring light into Zet's horrible actions.
Great video Tsunul, hope that you do manage to get some rest from all the heavily charged topics.
It's always the little things that spark the most random drama because some people just froth at the mouth at them. Your art is p nice btw.
@@shakirashipslied9721 yea, and thanks!!
So its you who brought politics into a fanbase. Good job
ah yes, the famously unpolitical series, project moon.
@@rotonek2887 Bring politics is like, "!hey! Be is RIGHT, if you dont like this then you are " (movies, arts, music etc) but this, is just Bong bong art holding a pride flag (Bong bong not even is lore character)
Edit: Btw good art
Summer is such a mess is so many communities.
Agreed
Gotta reopen the schools, man. Heat and boredom are a bad combo.
@@ANightattheOpera28honestly for me it's the heat, it's more people losing energy or getting pissed off due to how high the temperature gets (especially in other countries in South Asia to mention a few)
I know PM fans can't read but Zet is a literal walking oxymoron with the community he chooses to base his career on
Zet has reached level of can't read that surpasses even the worst cases of Dragon Ball fans not knowing the franchise's basic plot beats, none of them reach Anti-Semite whose fav game is super Jewish tier.
@@Masterblader158
This community is never gonna beat the "can't read" allegations ong.
Don't care, Bongbong is made by 4channers
Couldn't agree more, I'm betting summer is a cesspool for the PM community
@@Peppers_mintusok and? its a character just because she was made by 4channers doesnt mean she cant be drawn by anyone else, there are people who wont even respect when an artist doesnt want porn drawn of their characters what makes you think people give a fuck about a character coming from 4 chan or not, also, theres gay people on 4chan ? not sure what youre trying to say here
I've been into Genshin impacts fandom and honestly, IT IS Worser than PM. (If you know the recent westernization bend the knees by them). all gacha games have incels, simps, and fanatic fans, it is normal. even at big games like elden ring, etc.
but Genshin? They will send you death threats even at just mispronouncing their name(tighnari case) and would attacked a Straight fucking ship, and lots of atrocious deeds that is way too long to be listed.
PM had problems, but comparing to genshin is like a broken leg to an amputating a leg.
*amputating a leg
Honestly, I think the reason why gachas attract so much weirdos is because that's whom the companies pray on. "Come here for the sexy women and gamble away your kids' college funds!"
After all, if they weren't targeting mentally ill people, most of the companies would be bankrupt by now. Why? Because would mentally health people splurge money on their games? Unless they can afford it, no. But mentally ill people might do it regardless, to feel normal or happy.
Fr as a fan of both you should NOT participate in genshin fandom. They're Leopards ready to rip your face off. I found a few small communities that are wholesome, but dont dip into the bigger pond.
@@Onyrooliver (on read: "gain Panic-/Are fandoms that bad?/ and lose 35 sanity" )
@@GivingGamingGrant ah shit *LOSES CLASH AND CORRODES NEXT TURN*
The last game literally had themes of dehumanization in the form of the AI Ethics Ammendment and gave a comprehensive step by step guide on how not to be a horrible person despite horrible life circumatances through the main duo's character arcs which only unfolded because characters were speaking authentically, trying to avoid miscommunication even if they didnt agree on things.
Genuinely, it baffles me how this stuff can even happen. Yeah sure there will always be outliers but the current state of things still baffles me.
We have a chapter in canto 5 about how vengeance and hate can turn you in what you hate. But as you can see, a lot of people don't take that to their heart and decide is fine to harass and try to destroy the life of someone who put stupid dumb twits and can't shut up, feeding hate in both sides.
Sooo...
@@theoldmanofthemountain7514 is this another g chan? Dude i don’t think you got canto 5 fully ahab still deserved to be punished anyway obviously harassing zet is not good but frankly he is a horrible person he is destroying his own life because people choose not to engage or help such a bigoted individual.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Ahab got punished when she didn't got what she wanted, that was Ishmael becoming what she is and losing her whale. Her reason of hate.
But you acted how Ahab wanted, filled with hate, harassing the harasser.
You clearly didn't understand the point.
He can be a horrible person, but you shouldn't be a horrible person because other is. I'm tired of people excusing themselfs and their horrible actions because of the other being mean, because that is what makes you the same monster.
That's why Ishmael didn't killed Ahab. Because killing Ahab would make Ishmael what she hates, Ishmael would have become Ahab if she followed the cycle of hate. The community instead choose to fight Zeti by being bigots, trying to cancel him, and harassing him... So exactly how they see Zeti. They became Zeti.
You don't seem to notice how he sees the community the same way as the community see him. His punishment would be that him will be alone at the end, consumed by his hate as everyone proved that the community, indeed, don't care about his stupid takes and is mature enough to move on from a sad dude saying silly things on internet. You would have proof him how so wrong he is. How his hate is stupid. He wanted to have the community prove him right, and people gave him.
The community is the Ishmael who throw the arpoon to Ahab instead to the heart of the Whale.
So yeah, i think you are the one who didn't understanded Canto V at all.
I used to be part of Zet community a long time ago and yeah he never cared for his community, like you said he would ban people for stupid reasons and never ban the people who was causing actual problems like posting gore and stuff.
quick edit: Also thanks for making this vid
Sometimes we just have to face the future and build against the fear 🔥🔥🔥
So true
Shit was prolly wrote by skin prophet cause that shit was fire✍️✍️🔥🔥
@@saulmoment4008 aww thanks bud
Hmm it seems like Tsunul is one of the best sources of info on PM drama, I should lis... Tsunul: Don't view me like someone who is a full honest to god mentor. Me: Oh, am I part of the problem?
The reality of a Nietzsche fan
I just decided to use all of my power to support PM rather than trying to be a judgement bird in common internet issues. Sometimes ignoring is the best way to deal with issues.
ive only watched saphera's video on zet & had no idea about g chan's but i appreciate you addressing this, hopefully it clears up a lot of the misinfo 🤞🏻
also super valid statement on your role in the community at the end, i hope you can get a good break from all the lack of brainpower that's online and make fun stuff you want to make
I feel like sapheras video should have been more serious and less things like having a quiz test in the middle of a drama video. Now I didn't really go through the entire video as I have skipped the last part where it's going to be mostly about pmoon universe's story and stuff, but these really didn't feel needed or necessary to be included within a video that's mainly going to be addressing a drama situation. There is also a comment of her asking if she has gotten anyone interested in project moon games, now I'm not saphera and I don't know what her goal is with the video and the comment but it just feels bad.
@@rain-pj4xq from what i can see, saphera is primarily a drama channel and probably wrote the script a certain way to maintain engagement and attention to the video -- same thing for the pinned comment. i don't have an issue with it but i understand how someone that's looking for straightforward info on the issue may not like that sort of formatting.
Man I leave the limbus community for a week to chill and shit has started burning again what the fuck lmao
We need to hire better construction workers...
@@SirFailure yea
So glad to hear you ACTUALLY talk to the people zet's wronged!
I was really excited when I heard you talked directly to one of his mods (friends w/ his mods and also manta) and I AM SO GLAD you showed off how he actively disrespects his community! :-D!! It was something he's always been bad at.
Bong Bong isn't even real in the world of PM tf is Zet mad about 😭
What isn't he mad about.
@@shakirashipslied9721 Real
He made Bong Bong
How dare you say bongbong ia not real😡😡😡
@@Sloshmael_Sweep
I mean, did he really? I get that he *probably* participated in the event that spawned BongBong, but even then I thought it was a generally agreed upon fact that BongBong was a randomly generated nugget.
11:50 YO! THATS ME! I am so happy to be in a Tsunul video!
Nice job.
OswaldTheBased
Jesus christ this ain't a PM community drama it's just a content creator drama. I'm just gonna go back to my rabbit hole and wait for the next Limbus update in peace
Ikr, just because of one individual being negative which is a problem that could be in any community, making it look that the drama is about the community as a whole...i dunno man🤨
If he is in the PM community it's technically PM community drama, like when there was drama with Tectone it was hoyo community drama, so on and so forth
@ultimateidiot2344 it's literally just content creators and their quarrel, in what way is the community at large affected? Nothing about the games is being affected and PM community is WAY too busy with the hype around Murder on The Warp than some drama that's passed for a while. PMs community ain't affected but the community of the content creators certainly is
@@josienakamura4967 that is how all drama is labeled online tho, the title of the video lets it pretty clear, its about the content creators in the title and since the PM community is involved its also in there
holy copium
>Do you love the community you live in?
I didn't really care much for the drama in gaming communities I'm in, saw the Zet drama and just went "wow, what an asshole" and ended off at that, glad I watched this video fully to know that he is definitely an asshole and a lot of miscommunication and misinformation happened, just glad to get some clear insight thanks to your perspective
mfw people comment before enough time has elapsed to watch the video
They're disobedient nuggets.
Zet's a lobotomy corporation fan who doesn't know how to manage a discord server lol
fr
Zets vtuber artist literally said on twitter that zet scammed her and underpaid for the model, then the truth came out through screenshots that the artist set the price first and Zet didnt have any influence on it, didnt pressure or anything, he just asked for the cost and then paid what the artist said, after that came out they said "yeah but you didnt tell me to charge you more so you scammed me" imagine asking someone to charge you MORE, people only took the artists side because they hate zet
As someone who has been in his discord server since 2019, i find this video incredible entertaining and basically everything that was said about how bad his server is true, though they obviously are some good people in it
Good and bad has become the greatest excuse to not become a better person for oneself and for everyone.
God I am so beyond sick of Zet and hearing about him. He should just be left to fade away in his own echo chamber.
Zet is Ahab unironically and should be left in the whale just like her.
When I first watched G-Chan's video, I thought he made some good points about how easily radicalised people on the internet tend to be. Hell, I'm sure the titular elf on the shelf must've been radicalised at some point in his life to get like this. I've long agreed with the sentiment that the motive of "doing the right thing" can be very easily twisted. While I felt that some parts of it were lacking, like how its example of a creator egging on their community was EGSOO calling zet cringe, it was a video that painted a picture on how communities will end up looking like if we don't strive to be better than the people we are condeming, and I just left it at that without looking too deep into it because I don't want to make a habit of immersing myself in drama and honestly, I'd rather not delve into the tweets of a man who's on a schizo posting spree. Though I did have an idea of what to expect from zet if I did decide to look into it, and this video confirms that and so much more.
What I didn't expect was how much G-Chan left out of his video. While I still agree with what some of what G-Chan is trying to say, he ended up proving his own point in the worst possible way. And the worst part is, I did the same thing. Had I been just a little more active on social media, I probably would have ended up spreading misinformation based on something I took at face value and didn't bother looking too into. I must say, it was an incredibly haunting experience, but an ultimately humbling one.
Also, on a MUCH lighter note: YOU'RE 21 YEARS OLD?!
I don't have a witty comment sooo... BongBong slays.
10:19 So, thats me.
I think you where completely missing what i was saying there my friend, i was making fun of zet himself and his opinions on gay people, being a gay man myself
Yeah that's what I was showing. I said that comments like yours are ones that are displaying Zet's character. Talking about his beliefs. And I was saying how stuff like that is fine in my opinion.
@@TsunulAh gotcha, cheers for responding so quick man, I just saw what i said nestled between two abhorrent comments and got worried
And this is how it should have worked out, but sadly we instead having Canto 6 + a little/lot of past actions of canto 3.
As a conservative man myself i see zet as detestable i may not be able to understand the lgbtq+ doesn't mean i dont want you lot to exist. Are they bad actors that use this ideology for their own profit? Yes, but i can say that of my own beliefs as well. Anyone has the ability has the potential to be morally bankrupt no matter which "side" your on so no matter what dont just side with someone just cuz your quality is aligned to some extent.
I love this community, at least the part that i participate in that deepdives into the lore. Diversety in thought is greatest gift we have in a community, i want everyone to cherish that fact.
I can certainly say he was incredibly irresponsible especially considering the social climate in 2020s. You can't just accuse an entire community of criminal behavior and expect to not get bonked for it if it is false, yet there he was doing it anyway.
@@sintheemptyone8108 let me quote tsunul you really expect a dude who “…. If he went outside for once he would be a grand wizard” to know any reasonability? Bigoted people are not reasonable especially the ones who are deep into it.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle It's your types' own pursuit for revenge masquerading as social justice for your "tribe", the chasing of personal & tribal benefit at the expense of everyone else, that created people like ZET who would be swayed by the opposing side to do the exact same to you.
You made that personal hell for yourself, reduced them to nothing more than scapegoats to blame your life's problems on, and now you complain to me when the inevitable happens. It's the same deal with punks like ZET, you're like bullies who never grew out of high school days thinking that adults with their own problems to sort out would care about your petty antics.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Thing is, ZET is just a right-wing version of what can happen to you as well. Sure, he in particular has the extra reprehensible behavior of screwing an artist over, something that would get him chastised out of the ENVtuber scene if he was any more popular than he was, but point still stands.
Which is to say, someone who is way too obsessed with their own circles and blinded by their own lack of faith in others on social media to realize that just because someone has conflicting views about something doesn't mean they are automatically trying to plot their downfall. By choosing to double down in building trenches & painting devils on the walls, eventually one can't see anything over the walls they've built blocking their own sight of reality.
@@sintheemptyone8108
Why would you say something so brave and controversial?
Honestly, a lot of people underestimate the speed with which internet move on from conflicts, a lot of people just unsubscribed from zet amd forgot about it a week later, g-chan just brought unwanted attention to something what should've become a history already
sir.... you really need a fucken vacation..
also i knew something was lacking here and there in not just G-Chans vid but also everywhere else (i dont follow the drama's for my own sanity, only listen to them when im drawing)
so good to see SOMEONE is making sure that at least 99% of spoken info can be backed up with source and such
I agree
also 'i'm a pillar in my own community' straight bars
I really hate that people like this keep popping up. Zet was one of the first people I collabed with and I had no idea about what he was like until this drama started. I really hope that this stuff stops happening because it just makes me less and less interested with pursuing content creation. I'm glad to now have people that I can trust in my community.
Thank you again for letting my voice be heard.
Sending good vibes your way, man. Hope none of your future commission experience will be even remotely as bad as ZET's was.
0 views in 1 minute your channel grew
My favorite popular youtuber
Bro took off
He is rising in Reveangence of the current drama.
oh man this is eye oppening actually, i thought zet just had one bad take and looked like he could be "redeemed" and you and esgoo just straight up wanted to make hell on him. this video made me question every "documentary" i've seen on youtube now
Damn, Zet drama. The only thing I remember about him is him arguing with the the entirety of the /lbc/ thread on /vg/.
No idea why either, he just popped up and started defending himself from criticism and got mad about everything. I think it was started since some in the thread said zet "doesnt want to do limbus stuff but does it cause it brings views" by dhoeing how zet was vocal about his dislike to a few cantos.
I was too busy talking about debaitng the purpose of Sonya in the future story though, so I cant remember more.
I don't know how relevant this is but I honestly just want to say that I really love your recent videos. I used to watch you before because of the limbus content but I feel like these recent long-form videos are definitely some of your best. Every time I see one of these from you I just know that I'm in for an in-depth, detailed and funny breakdown of whatever you're talking about. Great job. (Now to actually watch the video)
I really liked your statement in the final part of the video, where you said people shouldn't look up to you as a paragon and people should learn morality themselfs, because you can make mistakes and do some wrong stuff just like everyone else, this is where other people should warn you and point out that you are wrong just like your friend did with your original script. But if everyone thinks everything you say is right then when you f*ck up there won't be anybody to warn you about what you are doing.
Even if you hate engaging in drama (fair AND real), you did your research, made a solid video, and even covered the artist's POV. Also, shout-outs to your friend who helped you change the tone of the video. I hope to see you do more Ruina mods some day, as I really enjoyed watching you go through Gibbous and even Jealous Flower.
Also, you're 21??? YOU SOUND LIKE YOU'RE 30 HUHHH
As a person who's been a viewer of Zet twitch stream for 3 years it is honestly really sad what he has become these days like the first time I saw him he used to be somewhat chill and stuff but then slowly he becomes a little bit more a bit meaner and meaner and even temporarily banned some people for making texts that are slightly too big.
Zet also wanted so bad to reclaim his Glory Days TH-cam popularity with his silent orchestra dance party video even though he rarely go out to his comfort zone and will not stop clinging on project moon.
And the things that weird me out with Zet views on LGBT is the fact that he does have lesbian couple moms which is why shocked me when suddenly he made that post on Twitter that day like why would you do like I know he's a jerk but I thought he would be better than this and what's even weirder is in his Discord server welcome trans people to his server before which confuse me even more where did he come across this revelation to have this belief.
Honestly I just feel disappointed about him both him as a content creator and as a person, like seriously 3 years 3 years I thought maybe things will get better but instead things get sad and disappointing, I even hope maybe 3 and 5 years later learn maybe be more patience and kinder person in general even towards people who are a bit stupid and don't make take what kind of thought of the consequences.
Man I really appreciate you. Taking the time to make videos like this is a huge undertaking, and I'm glad that the source is someone that has a history of well-thought out analyses. At this point I'm just playing games and waiting for Wild Hunt Heathcliff to drop, I don't have the energy to be angry or anything, just vaguely disappointed, but hopefully the community makes a full recovery from all this. Glory to Kim Ji-Hoon, Glory to Project Moon, blah blah can't wait for the trailer tonight.
I find this content very tiring to watch(community drama content), but I'd like to say I appreciate the effort going out of your way to get the perspective of the artist Zet commissioned. Although I doubt this will be the last of this kind as this content sells and we are an infant community. I do sincerely hope the community takes the general message of G-chans video as well as yours to heart. Which is to not fall into extreme actions and feel emboldened by a sense of community. Take a step back look at the whole perspective and move on. Say your peace if you must but leave it at that. Lynch mobs exists because the people doing them think they are doing it justly, and bad actors will take advantage of that in every case.
I will say I do feel for you Tsunul, being a face on the internet makes you a target for everyone's totems of hatred. Been called a homophobe already even though I have a boyfriend. People find any reason to hate. /:
Man I don't used twitter so I didn't even knew that was going on in the community
It's crazy that all that was public
Its a good thing for both of us.
I Don't even know half of the things tsunul said in this video.
its fucking crazy how 1 platform have so much hate,drama, and other things combined
Thats why i don't use twitter, keeping myself off from them kept my sanity sane
@@leifmochi5082 Agree using twitter is hurting my sanity 💀
Man drama is so tiring, genuinely. The Leviathan kerfuffle is not going anywhere so i advise you take some breather rest. Also ty for this video, appreciate your hard work on compiling these infos and presenting them in this manner.
Damn Zet’s comment on Kero is…..diabolical holy crap…..
I feel so bad for her… 13:52
I usually don't comment much on these kinds of videos and only watch these situations from afar since I stay on the calm side in fandoms, but I like the way you talk about these topics and the comment section on your channel is usually chill enough for me to feel comfortable sharing my thoughts (Wall of text incoming)
As other people have commented, I felt that G Chan's video...was lacking? Or at least that's how I felt when I saw it but I couldn't pinpoint the reason why, but your video made me see the situation more clearly so thanks for taking the time to investigate and clarify even if you dont like to make this kind of videos. I choose to believe that G Chan made that video in good faith and to leave a good message but I think his lack of experience in making these kind of videos caused the message to be diluted and backfired, which is kinda sad.
The Zet situation took me by surprise, I saw some of his videos but I didn't really frequent his channel, so discovering his behavior on Twitter was...Yikes. I didn't know you could reach such a level. It's quite understandable why people had that reaction to what happened.
Although, like you, I think that we should not go to extremes (harassment, death threaths,etc) and I do not think it is necessary to add more fuel to the fire at this point. Zet's actions have already been brought to light, the opinions and discussions that people make with that information is up to each person, the only thing we can do as a community is ignore him and no longer pay attention to him. It's okay if people want to make fun of Zet's bigotry or share their opinion on the subject, but please keep it civil.
Leaving that topic aside and focusing more on the PM fandom in general.
I understand the feelings of some people but it seems a bit unfair to me to accuse the PM community of becoming rotten based on these incidents, which are not that many compared to other fandoms (Of which the only one that was quite serious for PM and the community was the case of VM and the PMUA stuff). In addition to the fact that we should never trust Twitter when determining how "bad" a fandom is, a lot of hate accumulates there and it is easy to get carried away by that, it is Twitter after all.
Maybe I'm biased, but as someone who's been on the internet quite a bit, the PM fandom is one in which I've felt most comfortable. I've been in this fandom since Lobotomy when the community was even more niche and I understand why some feel overwhelmed by the arrival of so many people with Limbus, I've even had feelings of gatekeeping and nostalgia but we have to understand that it is inevitable, the growth of the community would happen sooner or later and that brings the possibility of there being people who give a bad image.We have to learn to live with it and keep in mind that they obviously do not represent the community as a whole, unfortunately, there are people like that everywhere and we cant do much about it.
Reading the comments and from what I have seen elsewhere, it makes me sad to see that there are people feeling that they should distance themselves from the fandom. Hate and doomscrolling can greatly affect mental health, I know because I have been through that situation. It's a totally valid decision but it worries me to see people walking away from things they genuinely enjoy because of the negativity that social media makes us absorb or feeling ashamed of the "cringe" by the community
I have already said it in other places and I don't know if anyone needs these words but, If you really enjoy something A LOT, don't get carried away by the image or the words of others (and definitely never doomscroll, NEVER, or else you are going to distort)
When I learned this and little by little I started to stop doomscrolling, I started to enjoy things more. You don't necessarily have to get to the point of never interacting with a fandom, but it is something you have to learn to regulate. I still interact from time to time since is something i enjoy but without focusing on negative people, I refuse to interact with something if it only gives me headaches and hate.
And i mean it, I'm a Hazbin and Hetalia fan, I've been through this soooo many times lol and I know how difficult it can be for some people. I may be cringe but im free. (Sorry of this is too looong, i yap a lot)
18:02 Damn that commenter really tripled down on such a bad take, even Gchan stepped in to fix it.
Fair and considerate points, sprinkled with Tsunul's trademark humor. This should be how a perspective is shared. Sometimes, people forget that Carmen's "whispers" are a real thing, encouraging people to distort. And it's also a good reminder that not EVERYONE's distorting when bad things happen to them - there's a lot more people who just move on, and there are those who discover themselves and manifest the Ego needed to overcome the moment.
A community alway has drama, just early or late
thank you for making this, i was about to make my own video or something because gchan's was so poorly made and bad faith it was pissing me off T-T especially after seeing the community come together during APR. Calling out people for getting things wrong is stupid when you yourself don't fact check anything and can only conjure this dumbass centrist take of 'you're both dumb and i'm better than you!' he just removed all context of the community itself and insisted it sucked because he felt like it. obviously harrassing people is bad but fuck i feel like his vid made me want to do it more lmao
I don't think it was bad faith, I've dmed G Chan for a long time about his video and across the dm's to me it just looks like his video was really misinformed. From everything I know of his character I cannot view his video as bad faith.
@@Tsunul i suppose i don't know him like you would. from a regular viewer perspective it seemed *so* fucking bad when i first saw it, my thoughts were likely on the same track as the first shitty script you mentioned in the vid lol.
Yeah, G-chan's video is made from a place of care for the community. Honestly he had been really worried about it for a long time, scared that the PMoon community becomes the Danganronpa community with how things were.
But yeah, Tsunul is right. He's misinformed and missed some crucial facts.
Dear god this video is so informative, thank you for putting out this video.
I wish you luck with the next one.
Thank you for the vid, I was so mad about the other video. Some people really grew numb to harassments on the internet, to the point that they would water it down just because they used to like them and repeating their behavior.
glad im not the only one who thought the g chan video was literally the biggest fencesitting nothingburger ever
also if you're gonna be a literal neonazi 24/7 you deserve to get hate comments why are we saying this is too far
I need to wake up early for uni and I'm sick physically, this is the best way for TH-cam to completely break me in every form, thank you algorithm for blessing me 🙏.
PMUA doko?
Besides that thank you so much for making this video, and articulating it with evidence I couldnt have gotten, can't wait for the next one.
I was on the fence of this video at first, thought that you'll just be proving G-Chans video right with how the PM community is just becoming a dogpiling community.
But it turned out much better, while the video of his did heavily convince me, i didnt rly even notice the EXTREMELY heavy sugarcoating he did, despite knowing how bad Zets Twitter is, while kinda even misrepresenting the other side and wasnt even aware how bad it even was.
Also wasnt rly that aware of how prevelant the bad community bits are in other communities are as well so that also helped a fair bit. it does feel a bit sugarcoat-y but at least that like.. helps a bit to feel less pessimistic about the community in a bit roundabout way(?)
Im glad this video ended up being made. Thanks Tsunul
Good video Tsunul, it’s unfortunate G chan’s video failed to address everything entirely and fully accurately. Feels like it was definitely something crafted over time as a boil over of being tired of seeing certain actions.
That being said, the fact people instantly went to start harassment basically right after that is.. truly the most mind ruining cyclical situation.
Im glad you made this video. Ive been getting frustrated with some people really underselling just how hateful Zet is, and if anything needs to be said about him more than anything, its that everyone should stay away from him. There is no resoning someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into
So true, I wasn't convinced by G chan video, it felt more like the rant without much proof. I even comented about this under his video.
This video is a reason why I always tell my sister, "People are dumbass and same as you and me so when you open your mouth, make sure fact check your stamment carefully and embrace the heat because not many have ability to funking do they research and read"
The guy came out throwing an accusation of kid diddling out of the blue when no proof had been presented.
He got what he bargained for.
Man I'm just here cuz "Hehe mega corp city bad, funny woman makes people transform"
How the hell it goes all over the place every single damn time? Y'all need to raise that sanity level man
I’ve been in this fandom for a long time now, but I’ve only begun making content for it recently. And I gotta say I’m delighted to see this be like, the only issue (related to people in the fandom I’m not touching the swimsuit beehive). And a kinda minor one at that. This fandom is shockingly chill and I’ve received nothing but support and like three sexist comments that I find nothing but funny. Keep it up guys o7
Man youtubers are making me feel old these days, I keep being shocked whenever I hear people state their age x'D
Basically, G chan video have a pretty good execution but poor setup which create unwanted result. Am i right?
Even though I liked it,I do have felt something was missing, Tsunul covered it well so I say I'm ok (don't feel like to hear more about this mess but oh boi, gotta wait for that one PMUA vid)
How can Zet be a bigot in the PM fandom when Canto III calls out and condemns a zealous bigoted group like Nagel und Hammer and people like Kromer
I'm not on his side or anything i hate him but people can like a media while ignoring the stuff they oppose, surprisingly
i feel like he'd be the type to say that ishmael and queequeg are just friends and totally nothing more
19:40
i don't know why this argument gets me so much. two sides: ppl who spread misinformation against bad people and bigots, leaving neutral people to be radicalized. and then it implies that radicalization will just...push them towards bigotry.
it annoys me so much to see it presented that being queer and/or being angry with bigots means that people will become bigots. be quiet about your queerness, and maybe the 'neutral' people will like you! just be nice and quiet and that's how you get seen as a human being! newsflash! if you're radicalized that easily, then you weren't neutral at all!
tldr: i hate the implication that being a nice and quiet queer and/or just letting things go will lead to better outcomes...that better outcome being that people who don't care continue to not care
i know im conflating the video's sides to queer and bigotry. i know that not what was directly stated, but still. it just rubs me the wrong way.
if you're neutral, you aren't radicalized by people pointing out bigotry. maybe you don't like it, maybe you despise people harassing zet, but you think its good to know, even if people are going too far. if you see people harassing someone over bigotry and you're like 'oh! i better side with the BIGOT' you're just. not neutral
i hate that neutrality is presented as something that is truly devoid of any influence or internal perspective, but will repel itself from its hatred of harassment and make a nice home in the hatred of bigotry
@@decasuffrage9021 Respectability politics has always been one of the things I've always hated too. One shouldn't have to be "one of the good ones" to be accepted as even just human. You make a good point there.
@@decasuffrage9021 Motte-bailey fallacy with the anti-bigotry serving as the motte & the resentment for normality, especially religion, serving as the bailey.
Your arguments come down to this: you do not believe in freedom of association because it gets in the way of politics.
@@sintheemptyone8108 please explain your point further. ive never heard of the motte-bailey fallacy and since i never mentioned religion anywhere in my comment i think im having a hard time understanding.
.
i think the point you're trying to make is that im comparing something light (anti-bigotry) to something more serious (resentment for normality???). which immediately runs into the problem of my sides, as per my follow up comment (which u might not have read, im not holding it against you) being queer vs bigotry.
following your motte-bailey fallacy, it would be queer-bigotry. and bigotry is a very serious thing?? thinking that queerness is abnormal and against religion is simply. well. bigotry. there are queer people of all religions, even ones that don't welcome them. being queer doesn't make you any less religious, and definitely not any less NORMAL
(please correct me if im misinterpreting)
What I fear about spreading misinformation and harassing bad people will scare some neutrals to silence, and possibly even defend bigots. Being queer does not create bigots, but the way people carry themselves can cause judgment. I just hate that there are bad apples who carry the LGBT identity but cause disrepute by doing horrendous shit, this is the kind of things that make Zet feel so valid in his opinions. Even if that kind of logic of (Letting an element of the set represent the whole set) is faulty, it's still in use.
There will always be people who judge others on their 'otherness' like being queer, and there will be always some bad behavior in the LGBT community. People who identify as LGBT like me don't need to rescind our sexuality or gender identity to feel validated, but with the way I see it, we shouldn't reduce our presence online or irl as our gender identity, but should carry our genuine selves with dignity and grace.
I come from a conservative and community-centered culture, with individualistic influences being spread on us for around a few generations. I was raised to be more concerned on how my actions might bring on to the community, whether it be my family, friends or the LGBT. In this sense being a "quiet queer" was how it did lead to better outcomes , with "quiet" meaning avoiding as much trouble as I could. I'm unapologetic about my sexuality (gay), which although brings undue feedback about myself in the culture I am in, is something I will not back down on. You might see this as being fucked up, but this was how I was conditioned in my family and in the overall culture I was born in.
Good on you for being a clarifying voice. I’m just quite just sad that someone I had mildly liked and watched was a horrible person
Dude, this situation doesn't sit right with me for some reason. I mean, watching this video i wonder, what happened to the person who i used to watch because their videos were funny? Honestly, even though Zet is a not-so-good person, i REALLY hope he can have a character development arc or something. TD;LR i hope Zet will apologize and we can put (most) of this behind us.
Edit: not related to my original comment but just to put my thoughts here, i think the internet is a downright HORRIBLE place, and one of the only ways to avoid this is to just, not interact with the community. So i really hope in the future that fandoms and communities on the internet will be able to avoid things like this entire situation. (Also why is my edit longer than the first paragraph lol)
pm is so inclusive with their stories that im suprised how such awful people are even able to like it
@@fajenanonom3062 It's really "huh" inducing how weird some people are about inclusive media. I saw someone comment about the Owl House as an example and someone complaining about its queer cast and whatnot, like bro? That's the point of it. I've also seen it happen in the Funger community, which is overall very wholesome.
the only thing i can conclude from the drama is just "twitter being twitter" with both some PM fans and Zet going full throttle with hate towards each other on twitter with Zet changed so much disconnecting himself with other OGs like Arcangela and allysciel
and i also one of those that pointed things about the "VR Model price". Looking this side from Kerocola made some sense to me, but still i hold on to my comment that the deal has been made (idk the rest since she blocked me and others who disagree with her before we know anything other than her previous posts) Your convo with her really made me understand her frustration because i really didn't want to interact with PM community after that.
beside, G-Chan probably paint the PM community only from the twitter side with how the "bad representation" from both side is so much vocal than other platform.
Other than that you vid made the situation much clear rather than just hearing other misinformation throwed left and right by both sides lmao
I'm never doubting the "PM fans lack reading comprehension" joke again after learning about Zet's manchild takes. Does he just skip the story in every PM game?