Even more fun fact, drawings and documents from that era suggest they use bows side by side with muskets, not by assign them to different unit but have same soldier carry both at same time. They would took advantage of the range of the guns then switch to bows at closer range in favor of much faster firing rate and perhaps indirect fire capability.
That would be terrifying to come up against even if you had more modern weaponry. I couldn’t imagine not hearing anything and all of a sudden someone next to you is taken out by an xbow bolt. Hard pass!
@@pd-kx4qw actually their manchurian arrows were the most horrifying. 2000 grain weight even at 150 fps can penetrate two men. the sizes of those arrows...nobody wore armor at that time and these had comparable stopping power at close range to a musket.
Now that's the type of trivia that I read comments for XD Was there a specific reason for this rusting? Lack of conditioning/maintenance supplies or was it a production deficit?
@@edwalmsley1401 Me before firing a bent-bolt Mosin: I wonder why bent bolts weren't more common when straight bolts take up so much space. Me reduced to repeatedly palm-striking the bent bolt handle of my friend's Mosin to unlock the (only very moderately sticky) bolt: Ohhhhhh
@Tian Wong ...and the fallout from this action almost directly lead to the political conflict prior to the Korean War. If only we had listened to Patton... Haha.
Tangentially related. Just funny seeing someone mention kmt. My grandma kept her kmt membership card even till her death a few years back. Member number was like 1285.
@@jasonsudana5320 No...It was 30 divisions, not 8. The 8 divisions were reorganized and REARMED, the rest was just retrained. Here's a list of the fully retrained divisions: 2nd, 11th, 14th, 25th, 36th, 57th, 67th, 87th, Training Divisoin, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 27th, 80th, 83th, 88th, 89th, Salt Tax """Regiment""". All 20 divisions were trained and organized according to plans of the German advisors. They belong to the first 2 phases of the reorganization. Another 10 divisions (3rd phase) were in training when war broke out. The 87th and 88th have ALWAYS been German trained and better equipped. The rest had 1-2 German advisors in each division, and mostly local made equipment. They do look German by having the M35 helmet. The "education unit" was the best equipped among all but was used as replacement for the others.
First character there 乙 is the second character in the series used for enumerating a sequence, similar to "B" in "exhibit B" or "item B". So there probably was serial numbers that was like 甲xxxxxx. The whole series of 10 characters 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸, is called the 天干 Sky Stem, meaning the main trunk. Together with the series of 12 characteristics 子丑寅卯辰巳午未申酉戌亥, called the Ground Branch, form the traditional Chinese sexagenary cycle for their calendar. Sixty being the lowest common multiple of 10 and 12. So if two characters, one from each series, appear together, most likely it was marking the year in the sexagenary cycle. But if only one character from the Sky Stem leads a serial, it was making obvious that fact.
No way, I literally searched your channel for a video on the Hanyang-88 last night after watching The Eight Hundred and couldnt believe it hadn't been covered yet! Excellent video as always!
The first letter of the serial number I assume is the Chinese character 乙 (yi)? Don’t really know if it’s trying to describe the grading of the rifle or batch/model number even maybe something else. In China people use characters like “甲 乙 丙 丁…” to describe the grade of stuff like A B C and D level. Don’t know if I make myself clear enough. Here is the wiki page kinda explains it better than I can: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Stems
Yes indeed, 乙 in Chinese is used just like the English letter B, so I wonder if it carries more meaning than just a proof mark, or perhaps it's some sort of a "second stage" proof mark.
The hole in the stock probably was for a mount or bi-pod type set up. Wall guns were popular in China's fortifications, so there is a good chance the hole was for some kind of pintle pin allowing it to be mounted in a socket on the fort's wall.
The way China, throughout its various dynasties, armed itself with weapons of all kinds is fascinating. To imagine that during the early Ming, the Chinese would end up arming hundreds of thousands of their troops with firearms, cannons, rockets. Anyone curious about the administrative challenges associated with that as well as some of their usage and distribution (and what was prioritised where and why) I highly recommend the Ming Shilu for study. It's a vast collection so it might take some time to work through it all - it's been largely translated into English by Australian Historian Geoff Wade.
If you move from Hanyang to Hunan province, you go South, instead of North ;-) That first character in the serial number 乙 means ‘second’ or 'two' in most uses. Not too sure what it indicates here.
I'd hate to see it done to one in more-or-less good condition but if it was already "sporterized" or in really bad shape I think it would be cool to trick one out this way.
This is a fantastic series of videos! I'm from Wuhan (武汉), where Hanyang(汉阳) is a district. I still remember the local history museum tours mentioning and showing an old bolt action rifle just like this one! I believe this rifle is colloquially known as 汉阳造 (Hanyang Made) during the 2nd Sino-Japanese War and the subsequent Chinese Civil War. You can still see this rifle mentioned and used as props for TV shows and movies here.
Lots of Chinese Mauser M24 Chiang Kai Sek rifle got their barrels severely wore out. My theory is that those rifles shot round nose 7.9mm rounds of the Hanyang rifles vice the 7.9mm Mauser spire point rounds as the rifles were designed for due to logistical issues.
It would be really impractical, the weapon is quite well designed for infantry purposes and a bipod wouldn't be all that useful for an infantry rifle, if the weapon was chambered in something with more kick i could see adding a bipod and designating the rifle and its user for marksmanship purposes. But thats assuming it was modified during its military years and not something a hobbyist did for themselves.
@@turboshamu LOL, They use arabic numerals elsewhere, including several "2"s on the site. yet, they used "乙" for just that one numeral....right....there are several chinese characters for the number "2" and that 乙 isn't one of them. 貳 , 贰 and 二 are.
Well, that's a simple overview, I wished for a detailed breakdown on different sights, their history, concept and what was the thought put into it. That looks like a good book!
I have a book in my collection called, The American Rifle. (I could be miss remembering the exact title so I'll update later when I get home.) . It isn't entirely on the subject of sights but it does have an extensive list of different varieties and how they came about and their mainstream acceptance. The book was published shortly after the adoption of the M1 Garand so nothing too modern will be covered.
Yeah, it's for a bipod/shooting stick. Mostly common found on guns from Tibetan/middle Asia area. Sort of tradition that people used to put such bipod on from ancient matchlock to modern bolt action, which referred to in Chinese as Cha Zi, literally means “Fork”, and the hole called "Cha Zi Dong", Dong means a hole. Some "Cha Zi" are plain, some are well decorated with precious metal.
Thanks to you and all the anti-china attacks in the media, I've started reading about China's last 200 years. It is full of excitement and drama. Thanks for the quality videos and for casting light on wars I didn't even know existed until this month.
If you're interested in modern Chinese history and wonder how it might have gone differently, With Iron and Fire imagines an alternate China where the republic is stillborn and a neo-imperial regime is reinstated in 1912. www.amazon.com/Iron-Fire-David-Wostyn/dp/1986432955/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524162400&sr=1-6&keywords=with+iron+and+fire
The tyranny of the CCP should be understood by that history. From what I have read of chinese philosophy, tyranny imposing predictable order is preferable to chaotic freedom.
It's seen it way through two world wars, had it's share of fighting in a number of revolutions, and might have even seen action in Korea. The fact that this piece even found it's way into Ian's hands is incredible, in and of itself.
At least it not been convert to use 7.62x39 by CCP during the early years of the cold war like many other firearms of that era. You can find a lot of zb-26 using type-56 ak magazines in many old Chinese war movies or even Thompson with PPsh mag.
At least some did see use in Korea. Mine is a Korea bringback with a Hunan Militia stock carving. The stock is warped, cracked and messily glued back together, and the rifling nearly eroded away. Glad to know about the bipod hole thanks to this comment section!
Oh, no, that's actually a fairly good condition example. Trust me. Back in the 80s these came in by the container load, and many of those I would have literally been hesitant to use to hold up a tomato plant. These saw *extremely* hard service with poorly trained peasant militia for decades, and were usually stored in barns and open warehouses after being replaced with newer style guns, where they sat for more decades before being sold for as little as $1 each to an exporter. You could buy these for $20-30 retail back then, and people would walk right by them. The most common use was making them into wall hangers or floor lamps.
Back in 1975, I bought a rifle like this one at Big Five Sporting Goods in Riverside, CA. The price was $29.95. The rifles were 1888 Commission rifles that had been modified in Turkey by having the barrel-shroud removed and barrel replaced for 7.92JS cartridges. The receivers were modified for stripper-clip use and also marked "Ankara". The original Mauser banner was partly ground away in the receiver mods. It lived for years behind the seat of my 1959 Chevrolet Apache pick-up.
Turkey made a rifle just like this. It had the Gew88 receiver and 29" 8x57 barrel. The top of the receiver ring had the star and crescent moon and was marked Ankara, but you could still see German writing and proofs on the rest of the receiver. Big-5 was selling them some years ago for about $100 so I and several of my buddies bought one. The things were LETHALLY accurate over long ranges and we could hit salt licks (for cows) that were a mile away on the next hillside. Mine started having some headspace problems so I got rid of it. Fun rifle to shoot, though.
This is not just the "Warlords rifle", but the iconic Chinese national rifle for the first half of the 20th century, used by not only warlords but the Chinese Red Army during the Long March, the unified Kuomintang in the Sino-Japanese war then the Chinese civil war, fighting the newborn PLA that also used the Hanyang 88 as well, then finally the PVA fighting in Korea.
I heard a story when I was little about when Nixon visited China, that symbol was made into some sort of cooking and placed in the soup. When the soup was served, the cookie was flipped, Nixon was obviously shocked when he saw it. However with all Chinese stories of that nature I'm not sure if it actually happened
It's also a religious and cultural symbol to many of the Native Americans in the southwestern USA. Very common for visitors to be angry or confused about it until we explained it.
The hole may of been used for a peg mount at an arsenal. It's the main reason so many Chinese swords have holes in the handle at the end of the pommel. Peg mounts.
In fact, some Hanyang 88s WERE converted to spitzer, but not common as the Gew.88s with "S" in Germany. This is due to the shift from Hanyang 88s to Type 24 "Chiang Kai-shek" rifles (Gew.98 style copy). Old Hanyang 88s were expected to consume the stockpile of RN cartridges.
Actually the first letter of the serial number is 乙of 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸, a numerical system of China used for year or contract. So it means second batch, not an inspection mark.
Are stripper clips an improvement over the n-bloc clips? It seems like the n-bloc clips would be easier to load into the rifle? But maybe you get a better and more reliable feeding without the n-bloc clip?
The Gewehr 88 was updated into the 88/05- part of which included converting the rifles to use stripper clips. The Germans seemed to think stripper clips were better than en bloc.
The hole in the bottom of mannlicher system rifles to let the en block clip fall out was considered a week point as it could let mud into the action. It's also more fiddly to top off en block systems, which ran afoul of military doctrines of the time that held that the rifle should be used in single shot mode, with the magazine serving as an emergency reserve. In practice the stripper clips seemed preferred, but booth were used extensively in the two World Wars.
Please see this comment Ian as I might know what that hole at the front is for. Could it be possible for an installment of the Japanese type 99 monopod?
The first character in the serial number is 乙. Seems more like a series number similar to the Japanese Type38/99 serial number starting with Kanji letters. There are ten of such Chinese characters, 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸. They were put into usage in the Shang Dynasty (~3000 years ago) for recording years, and are still used in modern China, mainly as ordinal numbers, I.e. 甲 usually means first, 乙 means second, so on and so forth.
Was the metal that was used to make this rifle locally manufactured or did they import a metal for the pressure bearing parts like the bolt and the barrel?
Great rifles, the gew 1888 is a great rifle, the bolt has about the same strength as a mosin, i hjnt with mine all the time for elk deer wild hofs and sometimes blackbears if they are causing trouble, its probably the only rifle i own i will never get rid of
I have a fascination of Chinese history, so thank you for this video. It is a pity as both member of the LGBTQ community and an open critic of president Xi and his human rights violations, it is unlikely I feel safe to visit China during my life time. But I could visit Taiwan. And the Chinese nationalists (who later established Taiwan as a seperate country) put rifles like these to good use against Japanese imperialists during WW II. So well done forgotten ally.
The first character in the serial number means second or two. It is one of ten characters used in Yin Yang and Chinese calendar. Other use of this sequence is in organic chemistry compound naming, e.g. ethanol is 乙醇.
10:10 The "乙" in front of the line of numbers isn't a random symbol that doesn't mean anything, in Chinese that's like a form of labelling things like alphabets, this character in particular is second in a line of such characters, 甲乙丙丁 etc
7:00 Hunan is to the south of Hanyang, so they evacuated to the south instead of north. Fun fact: Hanyang is in Hubei province. In Chinese, Hu is lake, bei is north, nan is south. So Hubei is literally, "north of lake", and hunan "south of lake". Here, both "lake"s refers to the same lake, Dongting Lake.
It is said that the swastika serves to cope with soldier's stress - most soldiers came from a peasant background with very heavy superstition, thus the swastika serves as an amulet to calm them down. Before the Arsenal's relocation from Hanyang to Chongqing, the five pointed star is used instead of the swastika.
The hole may be for a narrow bipod. You can find pictures of Tibetans and Mongolians with such bipods, both on old matchlocks and on Mausers and Mosins.
The first character on the stamping at 10:05 is ”乙”. “甲乙丙丁” is sort of a Chinese way of saying “ABCD”. But I’m not sure if that’s an actual proof mark because it’s kinda strange mixing Chinese character with English letters and number
Excellent movie. Takes place as China was emerging from the warlord era, as the KMT was coming into its own. The US and other European powers using naval powers ("gunboat diplomacy") to protect their interests, etc. A great movie for weapons nerds. The San Pablo's shore party was kitted out with period correct web gear and weapons (M1903s, BARs, M1911s, a Lewis Gun on the boat, etc)...
Is there a way to purchase the book “Arming the Dragon” without ordering one of the collector bundles? I’ve already pledged for “Pistols of the Warlords” along with several add ons and would like to get “Arming the Dragon” as well, but I’d rather not do the Collectors bundle. I went to Kickstarter but it seemed like “Arming the Dragon” was only included with the collector bundles. Please clarify if it can be added on without the collector bundle... and by the way, this book is a great idea. I can’t wait to read it. Thanks Ian
It is an add-on, like the bookmarks. Log into kickstarter, and on the Pistols of the Warlords page press the "manage your pledge" button on the right side. You should be able to add it.
@@milsurpmarine8628 I'm getting Arming the Dragon as an optional add on and I didn't get the collector's edition. It's not included in my main book bundle. Press "manage your pledge" on the main page, then "change your pledge", and then press the green "pledge $XXX" button for whichever book you originally ordered (near the top of the page). Then a page called "configure reward" should pop up with a list of the add ons. The Goldsmith book is about halfway down the list.
@Cosine cantonese is written using the same chinese characters as other chinese languages. It's part of an old chinese numbering system/calender 甲乙丙丁 are 1, 2, 3 ,4 etc. It's still in use today for certain things like Hepatitis A is 甲型肝炎 Hep B is 乙型肝炎
@Cosine different font, I think. Think cursive versus block letters, the brush would drag from the right-hand end of the upper line to the left-hand end of the lower line. I think.
@@muhammadnursyahmi9440 it depends. if you translate someone's ardess that would be translated as a b. But definitely not in this case as it has T on it all ready if they want a B they can just put one there.
I have a "chaing Kai sheck" 98 rifle made in 1944...has a shot out bore and mis matched chechoslav made bolt...ive actually fired it many times however I would not recommend doing it if you have one as they are unsafe to shoot...but I don't have much common sense lol
I've never shot a weapon in my life (except video games), but this channel makes weapon history so interesting I know many things I don't actually need.
Fun fact, before this gun came into production, the Chinese/Manchus were one of the last major armies to use bows on a large scale.
Even more fun fact, drawings and documents from that era suggest they use bows side by side with muskets, not by assign them to different unit but have same soldier carry both at same time.
They would took advantage of the range of the guns then switch to bows at closer range in favor of much faster firing rate and perhaps indirect fire capability.
That would be terrifying to come up against even if you had more modern weaponry. I couldn’t imagine not hearing anything and all of a sudden someone next to you is taken out by an xbow bolt. Hard pass!
@@pd-kx4qw actually their manchurian arrows were the most horrifying. 2000 grain weight even at 150 fps can penetrate two men. the sizes of those arrows...nobody wore armor at that time and these had comparable stopping power at close range to a musket.
Name checks out
@@pd-kx4qw Ummm... I think I will take the modern weaponry any day of the week.
First I've heard of "Arming The Dragon". Now I need to go back in and add it to my order.
I couldn't find that pledge tier. Is it a stretch goal that hasn't been added as an add on yet? Or is in an appendix in the main book?
It’s in the same place as the bookmarks and ex libris and patches
@@Primarch359 Annnd it's already gone
Soldiers call it "feet action rifle", because the bolt get rusted so fast they have to stand up and step on it like a shovel to reload.
That's an amusing fact, thanks.
Now that's the type of trivia that I read comments for XD Was there a specific reason for this rusting? Lack of conditioning/maintenance supplies or was it a production deficit?
Sounds like a solid tactic for mosins too 🤣🤣🤣
Love my 98
@@edwalmsley1401 Me before firing a bent-bolt Mosin: I wonder why bent bolts weren't more common when straight bolts take up so much space.
Me reduced to repeatedly palm-striking the bent bolt handle of my friend's Mosin to unlock the (only very moderately sticky) bolt: Ohhhhhh
Really glad to see Ian do so many Chinese history videos. Really forgotten piece of history
Some want you to forget.
I guess people finally looking towards WW2 history in Asia now that European portion is covered so thoroughly.
@Tian Wong ...and the fallout from this action almost directly lead to the political conflict prior to the Korean War. If only we had listened to Patton... Haha.
@Tian Wong Yeah, more than likely assassinated for his view on how to handle the communists.
So too thought the Soviet Union
Don't worry, Hanyang just needs a MOD3 and then she'll be good as new!
She does look fly at mod 3
She became gundam, no wait kinda frame arms girls lol
I think I'm embarrassed that I know what you're talking about...
How long do you think it'll take someone to make art of this?
@@5t3v0esque The Venn diagram between the communities is _strange_
I've got a hanyang with Beiyang army markings on the reciever, and kmt markings on the stock that denotes the rifle was issued to the 84th division.
You're Lucky! That was one of the German-trained divisions and said to be Chiang Kai-Shek's favorite division.
Tangentially related.
Just funny seeing someone mention kmt. My grandma kept her kmt membership card even till her death a few years back. Member number was like 1285.
@@kryzys904 It wasn't a German trained division. The German trained divisions were the 3rd, 6th, 9th, 14th, 36th, 87th, and 88th.
@@Kaosu10
Respect.
@@jasonsudana5320 No...It was 30 divisions, not 8. The 8 divisions were reorganized and REARMED, the rest was just retrained. Here's a list of the fully retrained divisions:
2nd, 11th, 14th, 25th, 36th, 57th, 67th, 87th, Training Divisoin, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 27th, 80th, 83th, 88th, 89th, Salt Tax """Regiment""".
All 20 divisions were trained and organized according to plans of the German advisors. They belong to the first 2 phases of the reorganization. Another 10 divisions (3rd phase) were in training when war broke out. The 87th and 88th have ALWAYS been German trained and better equipped.
The rest had 1-2 German advisors in each division, and mostly local made equipment. They do look German by having the M35 helmet. The "education unit" was the best equipped among all but was used as replacement for the others.
First character there 乙 is the second character in the series used for enumerating a sequence, similar to "B" in "exhibit B" or "item B". So there probably was serial numbers that was like 甲xxxxxx.
The whole series of 10 characters 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸, is called the 天干 Sky Stem, meaning the main trunk. Together with the series of 12 characteristics 子丑寅卯辰巳午未申酉戌亥, called the Ground Branch, form the traditional Chinese sexagenary cycle for their calendar. Sixty being the lowest common multiple of 10 and 12. So if two characters, one from each series, appear together, most likely it was marking the year in the sexagenary cycle. But if only one character from the Sky Stem leads a serial, it was making obvious that fact.
Fascinating.
he did it he reviewed a Hanyang type 88 yeahhh
No way, I literally searched your channel for a video on the Hanyang-88 last night after watching The Eight Hundred and couldnt believe it hadn't been covered yet! Excellent video as always!
A great movie indeed, highly recommanded to those who are interested in the Sino-Japanese War.
The first letter of the serial number I assume is the Chinese character 乙 (yi)? Don’t really know if it’s trying to describe the grading of the rifle or batch/model number even maybe something else. In China people use characters like “甲 乙 丙 丁…” to describe the grade of stuff like A B C and D level.
Don’t know if I make myself clear enough. Here is the wiki page kinda explains it better than I can: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Stems
serial, not cereal
@@fuuryuuSKK Thank you for pointing that out! English is not my native language and I apologize for misspelling that.
Yes indeed, 乙 in Chinese is used just like the English letter B, so I wonder if it carries more meaning than just a proof mark, or perhaps it's some sort of a "second stage" proof mark.
@@Whatever-ly9ek that's astoundingly good English for a second language mate
@@NM-wd7kx Thank you!
I had a 1939 Chinese 98 Mauser and C-96, sold them for $100 each in the 80s. Wish I still had them
Why the c96 (ノ｀⌒´)ノ┫：・┻┻
Why you sell? It’s so rare
Oh God. That hurts.
damn man, those will worth thounsands of dollars nowaday
@@edwardjoe8448 They were selling for under $100 in the 80s.
Damn shame the laser bayonet and magnetic accelerating coil isn't on this one. Watch out for Typhoons.
I understood that reference.
Ah yes, another shikikun of culture
Yeah, we're gonna need to bring Lee Harvey Oswald's favorite Grape to help take those out. And maybe one or two ROF buffers.
Shikikans assemble!
Suppose those only available after neural upgrade?
The hole in the stock probably was for a mount or bi-pod type set up. Wall guns were popular in China's fortifications, so there is a good chance the hole was for some kind of pintle pin allowing it to be mounted in a socket on the fort's wall.
Thanks for making my days a little better with these videos!
The way China, throughout its various dynasties, armed itself with weapons of all kinds is fascinating. To imagine that during the early Ming, the Chinese would end up arming hundreds of thousands of their troops with firearms, cannons, rockets. Anyone curious about the administrative challenges associated with that as well as some of their usage and distribution (and what was prioritised where and why) I highly recommend the Ming Shilu for study. It's a vast collection so it might take some time to work through it all - it's been largely translated into English by Australian Historian Geoff Wade.
If you move from Hanyang to Hunan province, you go South, instead of North ;-) That first character in the serial number 乙 means ‘second’ or 'two' in most uses. Not too sure what it indicates here.
It indicates a second grade rifle...as opposed to a first grade or third or fourth grade gun
Lol shouldn’t the character be 二？因为我不知道为什么。
@@jawafreak230 二是现代说法。
以前作排序时，更多是用“甲乙丙丁”；甚至在上世纪80年代，这种排序表达也很常见。
汉阳造上面这个确定是第二的意思。
@@tmq7288
好啊，谢谢。
@@jawafreak230 乙在排序上就像英文排序的B吧
"...they are not all strictly Mausers." Indeed. Some of them are Wausers:)
And BrowningBrowningBrownings
who wants a mauser when you can wauser
or Wauser Wauser Waffenfabrik
Well done 🤣
@@dutch4260 Wauser Maffenfabrik
Rumor says that if modernize it and give it enough love, it will turn into a Gundam
🤣
I'd hate to see it done to one in more-or-less good condition but if it was already "sporterized" or in really bad shape I think it would be cool to trick one out this way.
wait where is the mech accessories and the maid cafe?
Where's the longsword that she uses lmao
it's the secret 3 million dollar stretch goal of Pistols of the Warlords ;)
i see what you did here lol
Came to the comments section looking for a GFL reference, wasn't disappointed.
Likewise, bud :3
Welcome to the CA club! Hanyang Type 88, it's a pleasure to be of service to you, master.
Nice reference
This is a fantastic series of videos! I'm from Wuhan (武汉), where Hanyang(汉阳) is a district. I still remember the local history museum tours mentioning and showing an old bolt action rifle just like this one! I believe this rifle is colloquially known as 汉阳造 (Hanyang Made) during the 2nd Sino-Japanese War and the subsequent Chinese Civil War. You can still see this rifle mentioned and used as props for TV shows and movies here.
It can show up in most of war in Chinese contemperary history.
Of course they're not Mausers. They're Wausers!
Or BrowningsBrowningsBrownings.
W for wumbo
The Wario to the Mario
Lots of Chinese Mauser M24 Chiang Kai Sek rifle got their barrels severely wore out. My theory is that those rifles shot round nose 7.9mm rounds of the Hanyang rifles vice the 7.9mm Mauser spire point rounds as the rifles were designed for due to logistical issues.
I've never seen a M24 Chiang Kai Sek in good condition as they're usually a very well used rifles.
Lots of use, cheap steel, or both
@@demonprinces17 Chinese rifles got LOTS of use - 12 years of war against the Japanese for starters.
@@allangibson2408 also the Civil War they fought pretty much immediately after they ended the war with the Japanese that lasted another 4 years
@@allangibson2408 And even decades after that war. They were a real work horse of a rifle for the Chinese.
I was always wondering, how did people build stuff in the garage, before someone invented a garage.
Mind blown 🤯🤯🤯
Chicken or the egg..... Interesting point.
horse stables, equipment/work shacks? before it becomes a smithy or something
Well the Britts would be ok as they cobble togethers stuff in sheds rather than garages.
@@johndoe-so2ef from a cave to a garage. A small step for a caveman....
I wonder if those holes in the handguard are for some sort of bipod.
It would be really impractical, the weapon is quite well designed for infantry purposes and a bipod wouldn't be all that useful for an infantry rifle, if the weapon was chambered in something with more kick i could see adding a bipod and designating the rifle and its user for marksmanship purposes.
But thats assuming it was modified during its military years and not something a hobbyist did for themselves.
@@DesertCoyotes True Story! Also its japan.. the country that prides itself on being weird
I was thinking stacking swivel.
I can't find the part about the Gundams though, damn.
I'm from Wuhan and this rifle is one of the most important things of the city's modern history. Thanks for doing this episode.
@@johndoe-so2ef lol
Which one kill more people the rifle or the virus ?
@@puremaddeathyesiam4204 That's a genuinely good question.
@@johndoe-so2ef Yes.
9:51 serial number
That's not a number
That's a character
甲乙丙丁 and That's a “乙”
So the serial number is:
乙4T4845
（Chinese,number,English,number*4）
Here is my guess:乙4 is production line T4845 is product number
Ian doesn't refer to that symbol as a number, but an approval stamp.
@@kmcgovern2012 then most likely it means this gun is a second grade quality production instead of first grade
@@kmcgovern2012 that symbol is literally a number. lol
乙 means two
@@turboshamu LOL, They use arabic numerals elsewhere, including several "2"s on the site. yet, they used "乙" for just that one numeral....right....there are several chinese characters for the number "2" and that 乙 isn't one of them. 貳 , 贰 and 二 are.
Hey, Ian, a bit of topic here, but is there a book that covers the development of rifle/pistol sights? It would be nice, if there is.
Well, that's a simple overview, I wished for a detailed breakdown on different sights, their history, concept and what was the thought put into it. That looks like a good book!
I have a book in my collection called, The American Rifle. (I could be miss remembering the exact title so I'll update later when I get home.) . It isn't entirely on the subject of sights but it does have an extensive list of different varieties and how they came about and their mainstream acceptance. The book was published shortly after the adoption of the M1 Garand so nothing too modern will be covered.
My theory on that hole, it's for a crude bipod.
Nonsense, it's to attach your Tactical Bean Holder
Yeah, it's for a bipod/shooting stick. Mostly common found on guns from Tibetan/middle Asia area. Sort of tradition that people used to put such bipod on from ancient matchlock to modern bolt action, which referred to in Chinese as Cha Zi, literally means “Fork”, and the hole called "Cha Zi Dong", Dong means a hole. Some "Cha Zi" are plain, some are well decorated with precious metal.
@@mauserinchinaaaronzou88 that's what I thought, thanks for your insight.
@@moreparrotsmoredereks2275 bruh
@@moreparrotsmoredereks2275 do they have Bubbas in China?
Thanks to you and all the anti-china attacks in the media, I've started reading about China's last 200 years. It is full of excitement and drama. Thanks for the quality videos and for casting light on wars I didn't even know existed until this month.
If you're interested in modern Chinese history and wonder how it might have gone differently, With Iron and Fire imagines an alternate China where the republic is stillborn and a neo-imperial regime is reinstated in 1912. www.amazon.com/Iron-Fire-David-Wostyn/dp/1986432955/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524162400&sr=1-6&keywords=with+iron+and+fire
The tyranny of the CCP should be understood by that history. From what I have read of chinese philosophy, tyranny imposing predictable order is preferable to chaotic freedom.
@@kirbyculp3449 learning about the times when China isn't orderly makes that very understandable.
China and the cccp are two different things, china has a rich history, the cccp is the result of european communism infecting chinese philosophy.
@@kirbyculp3449 try living during the warlord period and tell me which is preferable.
I so happy every time you cover any of the 88 family. Such a beautiful rifle and it's clips are just amazing.
That’s a hideous rifle. The Springfield 1903 is a beautiful rifle
hey it's the gun i kept giving to my chinese conscripts in hoi4
Quite an elegant looking rifle. Very rough condition though, its had a hard life...
It's seen it way through two world wars, had it's share of fighting in a number of revolutions, and might have even seen action in Korea.
The fact that this piece even found it's way into Ian's hands is incredible, in and of itself.
At least it not been convert to use 7.62x39 by CCP during the early years of the cold war like many other firearms of that era. You can find a lot of zb-26 using type-56 ak magazines in many old Chinese war movies or even Thompson with PPsh mag.
At least some did see use in Korea. Mine is a Korea bringback with a Hunan Militia stock carving. The stock is warped, cracked and messily glued back together, and the rifling nearly eroded away.
Glad to know about the bipod hole thanks to this comment section!
@@PhantomP63 Interesting. Would that be 湖南(Hunan)or河南(Henan)?
Oh, no, that's actually a fairly good condition example. Trust me. Back in the 80s these came in by the container load, and many of those I would have literally been hesitant to use to hold up a tomato plant. These saw *extremely* hard service with poorly trained peasant militia for decades, and were usually stored in barns and open warehouses after being replaced with newer style guns, where they sat for more decades before being sold for as little as $1 each to an exporter. You could buy these for $20-30 retail back then, and people would walk right by them. The most common use was making them into wall hangers or floor lamps.
I am glad to see Ian cover this rifle I have a soft spot for the gewehr 88 it's one of my favorite guns
Back in 1975, I bought a rifle like this one at Big Five Sporting Goods in Riverside, CA. The price was $29.95. The rifles were 1888 Commission rifles that had been modified in Turkey by having the barrel-shroud removed and barrel replaced for 7.92JS cartridges. The receivers were modified for stripper-clip use and also marked "Ankara". The original Mauser banner was partly ground away in the receiver mods. It lived for years behind the seat of my 1959 Chevrolet Apache pick-up.
The way of the gundam
What do you mean?
Gundam is japanese....
I got one of these Type 88/Type Hanyang for very cheap years ago, but sold them. Now cannot find them on the market at all now!
I got one ..... Needs the bolt replaced though.... It blew up.... Was welded back together.... And then broke again
Turkey made a rifle just like this. It had the Gew88 receiver and 29" 8x57 barrel. The top of the receiver ring had the star and crescent moon and was marked Ankara, but you could still see German writing and proofs on the rest of the receiver. Big-5 was selling them some years ago for about $100 so I and several of my buddies bought one. The things were LETHALLY accurate over long ranges and we could hit salt licks (for cows) that were a mile away on the next hillside. Mine started having some headspace problems so I got rid of it. Fun rifle to shoot, though.
Hello, Ian, thank you for your video.As a Chinese, the Hanyang rifle may be the most famous rifle in China, I think everybody knows it.
Zongze - are there any firearms museums in China that exhibit domestically produced weapons?
Love from England love your videos
England's not a place
@@commoncriminal923 wtf
I hope UK gov will stop being hoplophobic as fuck some time
@@ivansidorov6464 "hoplophobic" 🤣🤣🤣
@@commoncriminal923 you are from a different planet and just moved to earth
Did you know you can upgrade your maid into a Gundam?
Just kidding, I always wanted to know more about the Type 88 and its service.
I see a fellow man of culture here.
Witness the power of a seasoned maid
Truly, a Raifu of long service record, and she went even further than otherwise expected of. And she even actually got further modernization as well!
From a bayonet to a friggin energy blade. Gundam maid is great.
The perfect rifle to tear apart columns of KCCO tanks and mechas
Huh, Ian's getting into Chinese gundams now? Awesome. 😉
GREAT video man....I absolutely love mine. My gf speaks Chinese and she translated the cartouches. Really cool.....
Does this mean that we will see a video on the Chiang Kai Shek rifle soon :D
YES! (I've been wanting a vid on the Hanyang for YEARS now, thank you Ian!)
Love the rapid fire delivery in this vid.
I've been waiting for a vid on this for so long. Can't wait to get a copy of Arming the Dragon with the Kickstarter!
This is not just the "Warlords rifle", but the iconic Chinese national rifle for the first half of the 20th century, used by not only warlords but the Chinese Red Army during the Long March, the unified Kuomintang in the Sino-Japanese war then the Chinese civil war, fighting the newborn PLA that also used the Hanyang 88 as well, then finally the PVA fighting in Korea.
Thank you for sharing the meaning of the left-handed symbol. I gave tours in a Buddhist temple, always questions regarding that symbol.
I heard a story when I was little about when Nixon visited China, that symbol was made into some sort of cooking and placed in the soup. When the soup was served, the cookie was flipped, Nixon was obviously shocked when he saw it. However with all Chinese stories of that nature I'm not sure if it actually happened
It's also a religious and cultural symbol to many of the Native Americans in the southwestern USA. Very common for visitors to be angry or confused about it until we explained it.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Indeed, well said!
The hole may of been used for a peg mount at an arsenal. It's the main reason so many Chinese swords have holes in the handle at the end of the pommel. Peg mounts.
In fact, some Hanyang 88s WERE converted to spitzer, but not common as the Gew.88s with "S" in Germany. This is due to the shift from Hanyang 88s to Type 24 "Chiang Kai-shek" rifles (Gew.98 style copy). Old Hanyang 88s were expected to consume the stockpile of RN cartridges.
Actually the first letter of the serial number is 乙of 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸, a numerical system of China used for year or contract. So it means second batch, not an inspection mark.
Is there a CZ 75 pistol video coming out any time soon? I didn't see one on your channel. Anyways keep up the good work
Are stripper clips an improvement over the n-bloc clips? It seems like the n-bloc clips would be easier to load into the rifle?
But maybe you get a better and more reliable feeding without the n-bloc clip?
The Gewehr 88 was updated into the 88/05- part of which included converting the rifles to use stripper clips. The Germans seemed to think stripper clips were better than en bloc.
The hole in the bottom of mannlicher system rifles to let the en block clip fall out was considered a week point as it could let mud into the action. It's also more fiddly to top off en block systems, which ran afoul of military doctrines of the time that held that the rifle should be used in single shot mode, with the magazine serving as an emergency reserve.
In practice the stripper clips seemed preferred, but booth were used extensively in the two World Wars.
Please see this comment Ian as I might know what that hole at the front is for. Could it be possible for an installment of the Japanese type 99 monopod?
Maybe the hole was drilled to mount some sort of makeshift bipod?
Like the Scout bipods in bf1? The weird ones you hold with your palm?
My favourite big booba mecha maid.
Yes.
I wonder if those clips could be made to work in the 8mm m38 variants.
Nope. The Mosin magazine and Mannlicher clips are not compatible.
@@dbmail545 perhaps I have the designation wrong. I'm talking about the carcano rifles that were chambered in 8mm mauser.
The m38 rather.
Very interesting video, thank you Mr McCollum.
Thank you , Ian .
I was literally looking for a video of this yesterday.
Yes! The perfect length video for a 15 minute break from cutting stones.
The first character in the serial number is 乙. Seems more like a series number similar to the Japanese Type38/99 serial number starting with Kanji letters. There are ten of such Chinese characters, 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸. They were put into usage in the Shang Dynasty (~3000 years ago) for recording years, and are still used in modern China, mainly as ordinal numbers, I.e. 甲 usually means first, 乙 means second, so on and so forth.
I have waited a long time for this
Sweet! I've been waiting for a video on this rifle
KMT IS SO PROUD OF YOU
Was the metal that was used to make this rifle locally manufactured or did they import a metal for the pressure bearing parts like the bolt and the barrel?
Did they have the chamber explosion issue like the german 88s
The first rifle I bought played 45$ with bayonet and1000 rounds military amo,it had been sporterized
Great rifles, the gew 1888 is a great rifle, the bolt has about the same strength as a mosin, i hjnt with mine all the time for elk deer wild hofs and sometimes blackbears if they are causing trouble, its probably the only rifle i own i will never get rid of
I have a fascination of Chinese history, so thank you for this video. It is a pity as both member of the LGBTQ community and an open critic of president Xi and his human rights violations, it is unlikely I feel safe to visit China during my life time. But I could visit Taiwan. And the Chinese nationalists (who later established Taiwan as a seperate country) put rifles like these to good use against Japanese imperialists during WW II. So well done forgotten ally.
Super happy to see this. How interesting. Thanks for the vid. Hope to see more of Chinese firearms.
Great information and rifle .
Here comes the *second book*
10:10 i think thats chinese letter "乙" mean B, 甲 乙 丙 丁 ,A B C D. something like that.
Looks like I am early today, keep up the good work Ian.
Up next in Scholagladiatoria- swords of the Chinese warlords?
As a specialist in this area, I'm delighted to see these arms getting proper exposure to modern western audiences!
I have a very early Hanyang 88 with the old style rear sight .it is number ,A 058 pretty sure re stamped on German parts.
The first character in the serial number means second or two. It is one of ten characters used in Yin Yang and Chinese calendar. Other use of this sequence is in organic chemistry compound naming, e.g. ethanol is 乙醇.
10:10
The "乙" in front of the line of numbers isn't a random symbol that doesn't mean anything, in Chinese that's like a form of labelling things like alphabets, this character in particular is second in a line of such characters, 甲乙丙丁 etc
The first character is not a proof mark, but actually "2."
Was the genwher 88 ever exported to the US in the 1890s?
Reading Arming the Dragon reedition while watching this feels like *augmented learning*
I added this book to my order out of principle.
7:00 Hunan is to the south of Hanyang, so they evacuated to the south instead of north. Fun fact: Hanyang is in Hubei province. In Chinese, Hu is lake, bei is north, nan is south. So Hubei is literally, "north of lake", and hunan "south of lake". Here, both "lake"s refers to the same lake, Dongting Lake.
yes, is Dongting Lake
It is said that the swastika serves to cope with soldier's stress - most soldiers came from a peasant background with very heavy superstition, thus the swastika serves as an amulet to calm them down. Before the Arsenal's relocation from Hanyang to Chongqing, the five pointed star is used instead of the swastika.
The hole may be for a narrow bipod. You can find pictures of Tibetans and Mongolians with such bipods, both on old matchlocks and on Mausers and Mosins.
Umm btw. Han yang arsenal is located in Hubei province, so it is moved *south* to Hunan province
The first character on the stamping at 10:05 is ”乙”. “甲乙丙丁” is sort of a Chinese way of saying “ABCD”. But I’m not sure if that’s an actual proof mark because it’s kinda strange mixing Chinese character with English letters and number
Have you written any other books?
I wonder if they featured these in the movie The Sand Pebbles. Lots of warlords in that movie too.
Wasn't that movie about the Boxer Rebellion? If so, that was during the Quing Dynasty. No warlords then. They came sometime later.
@@ManiSRao-bt3xw I seem to remember warlords in the book too, I could be wrong. I think it was set after the Boxer Rebellion in the 1920s.
Excellent movie. Takes place as China was emerging from the warlord era, as the KMT was coming into its own. The US and other European powers using naval powers ("gunboat diplomacy") to protect their interests, etc. A great movie for weapons nerds. The San Pablo's shore party was kitted out with period correct web gear and weapons (M1903s, BARs, M1911s, a Lewis Gun on the boat, etc)...
@@mcqueenfanman - your username tells me you're no doubt aware of my favorite WWII movie Hell Is For Heroes!
@@wes11bravo Very well made movie, the death by 1,000 cuts scene is moving. I never saw anything like that before.
Is there a way to purchase the book “Arming the Dragon” without ordering one of the collector bundles?
I’ve already pledged for “Pistols of the Warlords” along with several add ons and would like to get “Arming the Dragon” as well, but I’d rather not do the Collectors bundle. I went to Kickstarter but it seemed like “Arming the Dragon” was only included with the collector bundles. Please clarify if it can be added on without the collector bundle... and by the way, this book is a great idea. I can’t wait to read it.
Thanks Ian
It is an add-on, like the bookmarks. Log into kickstarter, and on the Pistols of the Warlords page press the "manage your pledge" button on the right side. You should be able to add it.
Will Shen Nope... tried again but it’s only included in the collector bundles.
@@milsurpmarine8628 I'm getting Arming the Dragon as an optional add on and I didn't get the collector's edition. It's not included in my main book bundle. Press "manage your pledge" on the main page, then "change your pledge", and then press the green "pledge $XXX" button for whichever book you originally ordered (near the top of the page). Then a page called "configure reward" should pop up with a list of the add ons. The Goldsmith book is about halfway down the list.
Will Shen Thanks for the replies... I’ll give that a try.
Will Shen I’m not sure what I did but somehow it appeared and I was able to order the book . Thank you for your assistance.
I’ve been waiting a long time for you to make a video on this. As well as the Chinese Jingal wall guns.
乙 has the meaning of 2 in Chinese its not a prove mark.
@Cosine Chinese only have one written language. So doesn't matter it's Cantonese or not
Wasn't 乙 had the meaning of "b" in Chinese?
@Cosine cantonese is written using the same chinese characters as other chinese languages. It's part of an old chinese numbering system/calender 甲乙丙丁 are 1, 2, 3 ,4 etc. It's still in use today for certain things like Hepatitis A is 甲型肝炎 Hep B is 乙型肝炎
@Cosine different font, I think. Think cursive versus block letters, the brush would drag from the right-hand end of the upper line to the left-hand end of the lower line.
I think.
@@muhammadnursyahmi9440 it depends. if you translate someone's ardess that would be translated as a b. But definitely not in this case as it has T on it all ready if they want a B they can just put one there.
I have a "chaing Kai sheck" 98 rifle made in 1944...has a shot out bore and mis matched chechoslav made bolt...ive actually fired it many times however I would not recommend doing it if you have one as they are unsafe to shoot...but I don't have much common sense lol
I've never shot a weapon in my life (except video games), but this channel makes weapon history so interesting I know many things I don't actually need.
how do you get the arming the dragon book?
Chiang Kai-Shek/ Generalissimo rifle for next video please!!! And some of these were used in the Korean War by Chinese infantrymen. o_O