Romanian Model 1879 Martini-Henry Rifles & Carbines
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Following its experience in the Russo-Turkish War, the Romanian Army was quite impressed by the Martini-Henry rifle in Turkish service. Unlike so many Western observers who were taken by the Winchester repeating rifles that actually didn't make much battlefield impact, the Romanians recognized the all-around quality of the Martini. So after the war when looking to equip their own newly independent army, they went to Britain for Martinis. They were not able to get rifles made in Britain, but did purchase a license to make the rifle in .45 Gatling, which they took to a factory in Witten, in the German state of Wurtemburg. This factory was newly opened, run in part by Friedrich von Martini himself - so what better place to get Martini rifles?
An initial contract for 60,000 rifles and 8,000 carbines was accepted by the factory and delivered fairly quickly. When the Romanians came back for more guns the factory had gone bankrupt, however. Subsequent orders were instead made form OEWG Steyr in Austria. In total, Romania acquired about 145,000 Martini long rifles and between 12,000 and 18,000 carbines. They were replaced by the Model 1893 Mannlicher in the 1890s, and thus were never used as a front-line rifle in any major combat. They served in World War One in a secondary role only.
Thanks to the King Ferdinand I Military Museum for giving me access to these examples and to A.N.C.A. for coordinating the visit! If you are in Bucharest, make sure to stop in and visit the museum:
www.muzeulmilitar.ro/en/
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The dark wood furniture on one of the rifles makes it more elegant IMHO. It just looks so sleek.
The blackened wood w the "in the white" does have a sleek quality but there is a very classic feel to the oiled wood and blued steel.
It looks dirty and old to me 😂
Looks like it’s in grayscale compared to everything else in the video.
“Scary black rifle”
@@buzzyinurface Collectors call this "patina".
Man Ian gets around you never know where he is going to pop up 😂
I wonder if he’s going to pop up in China or Chinese occupied Tibet and talk about the various firearms used by warlords and rural people.
@@alexs5744 I can't wait for him to appear on the International Space Station, talking about the Voskhod survival carbine. Which I think he has already done, but it would be nice to see how it performs in freefall.
He's like Flat Stanley
Like our D&D players when you want to organize a session in adulthood.
One is in Zimbabwe for vacation.
The other is having open heart surgery.
The third is fighting the voices in his head.
And lastly the romantic guy who is actively fighting the crazy gf who stabbed him 6 times and who is still in love with her somehow.
Very nice! As a long time Romanian reenactor in a country with otherwise strict gun control laws, the first historical firearm I ever handled was a Romanian M.1879 from the National Military Museum, back in 2006, so ever since I've had a soft spot for them.
Also, some time ago, while digging on the site of the former "Pirotehnia Armatei" ("Army Pyrotechnic [facility]") state-run ammunition plant prior to the site's redevelopment into office buildings, my friends and I found a couple of unfinished, 1916 marked cartridges for the M.79, so they were still making them as late as that. My guess is it was probably a last-minute order as part of the gear-up for our entry into WW1.
@@BlaBla-pf8mf Da, intre Politehnica si bulevardul Iuliu Maniu, acolo unde sunt acum sediul Microsoft, etc. Au dat jos cladirile alea prin 2007 parca si noi atunci am fost.
@@wingsofwrath4647 Thanks
Speaking of ammunition works, I remember the old Kynoch works in Birmingham. It was still producing in the '80s.
In the early 21st century it was redeveloped for, amongst other things, university accomodation. This struck me as odd because surely the ground would have been stiff with copper, zinc, lead, brass, mercury, and antimony.
Gun Jesus dropped by, such a cool dude. Much love from Romania!
I understand that the Peabody was well liked by Gen. Sherman: Both ahead of their time. I've not been able to get any supporting documentation since that was way back
I see what you did there.
@@markfergerson2145 Who? Me? Innocent little me?
Take your like and git.
Small Correction: Witten is not in the state of Wurtemburg, but in Westphalia.
Small writing error Württemberg.
And he knew I was wearing my Martini shirt from CNrsenal...
Funny how things are. I found 3 bullet cassings and one slug from rifle like this just two months ago. I found them while metal detecting 20 km Nord of Buchares.
TIL that there was a .45 Gatling cartridge.
14 years is still longer than the m14
The M14 served for over 50 years in various capacities.
@Andrewsky347 the 1903 is still serving in some capacity. Just not the standard service rifle.
8:29 The only known exception to Ian's famous saying that no one copies the French (and the French copy no one).
I appreciate these subtitles, especially those ellipses and brackets as a means of correction. Thanks a lot.
Argentine here and I say ME TOO!!!
Same same. Whoever does the subtitles deserves recognition
Bucharest Military Museum is the place I started going when I could still fit into the barrel of the 16 inch mortar displayed there.
The fact these guns are so scarce is what makes them extremely popular among gun enthusiasts such as yourself Ian and you never cease to amaze us with your knowledge of guns, not to mention those Martinis are very elegant to look at.
Much love for guns of this period and their stories! The Martini-Henry action seems excelent, here the Rolling Block was the king and is much slower and less convenient.
all those late 19th/early 20th century long rifles with ironsights going out to over a kilometer are truly from a special era. from the adoption of cased ammo to the Maxim gun, the infantrymans rifle had to do more than what we use rifles for today
Those settings were for volley firing. The reasoning was how far will this round carry, not accuracy as we think of it today. So, you get about 100 guys all firing at once at long range. Theoretically somebody is gonna get their day ruined. Was it effective? Don't know.
Discrepancy in Romanian documentation? Those who are surprised, raise your hand!
I think my usual joke that I have two of these in the garage leaning against the back wall won't work today. Ian really gets around.
I really appreciate your videos, thank you for your time and effort sharing this content.
Thanks, love the Martini
That was great Ian! (it was obvious that you enjoyed making it)
Good timing, just about to take lunch break, something to watch 😋 👍
lunchbreak? It's 6 am!
@@robertsaget6918 Not in the UK 🇬🇧 a late lunch 2pm 😋 lol
Great video, thanks. And I think those are 2 beautiful rifles.
Martini Henry.. such a gorgeous rifle. Thank you for this!
Even if you don't like guns it is always worth watching for the history. Fortunately I enjoy both.
Forță bina! Good video!
To be a pedant, it really should have been called the Martini-Peabody. Martini reworked to striker firing the Peabody action.
Except that Peabody lost his patent suites against Martini.
The British at the time tended to name the rifle after the person responsible for the action and the person , or place, responsible for the rifling.
I always give a thumbs up but probably don't comment enough. I'm not technically minded but you make your videos so accessible. All your videos are interesting but I have a particular fondness for weapons with a story behind them. My favourites are the Pancor Jackhammer, Grean Meanie and the PTRD because of the stories.
Very nice. Allot of history in this design.
Saw the hole in the barrel. Bummer
Super interesting.
Well done!
Good video.
I would absolutely love a video on the Martini Henries in Ottoman service! 19th century Ottoman history is fascinating because it's so much more complex than the simple "sick man of Europe" trope we've all heard about while we prime ourselves for WW1 history
The Martini Henry is legendary
Thank you as always Ian, great video. I'm now in the mood to watch Zulu.
they probably also had a large number of captures from the Ottoman army…. from 1878
That black carbine is nice! Almost looks like a modern polymer stock!
I love Romania! ♥
I love Ian's cardigan and I want one!
I was very happy to hear Romania has an arms collecting society, but sadly disappointed to see the destroyed rifle barrel. The idea a serious government would believe a single shot rifle, chamred for a cartridge that hasn't been produced in over a century, that's 50+" long, is a threat to social order, should make clear the government isn't serious. Unless Romania has been having a rash of drive-by shootings in which after a volly of shots, the car dissappears in the cloud of blackpowd
er smoke.
I agree...when I saw the hole...I shuddered. Actually had to turn the screen so my 2 MKIV's on the wall couldn't see their butchered younger brother.
You never know. Someone could relearn how to draw brass cases or turn down existing cases on a lathe and in only a few MONTHS and several hundred dollars make A ROUND of ammunition.
Stupiest part is, if you had that ability, it would be much easier to make a homemade new firearm in your shop than to make ammo for this one. Most firearm laws are silly.
@@MrYfrank14 Actually...CH Tool & Die company make all the dies for the 45 Gardner/Gatling cartridge including a form die. To make ammo I'd get their die set, make a chamber casting of my gun then find a cartridge that is close enough to work.
The MH 577-450 Boxer can be made from 24 gauge brass shotgun shells so something similar is very likely available if you want to make 45 Gatling.
@vincentmueller3717
That's a weird take. The government that deactivated these weapons was also torturing dissenters in political prisons.
1900m is pretty optimistic for a large bore BP cartridge.
The rifle would be nearly vertical. I'm sure it would be OK for harassing fire, but that's about it.
Bayonet not looking as scary as our sawback beast always remember my dad shooting his with bayonet fixed to the amazement of every one else at the range.
Very interesting. Had no idea Martini-Henrys were used outside of the Commonwealth. Also there are memes going around from the film *ZULU* which is 60 years old [1964] and personally fascinated because the cadet version was the first firearm I shot.
It's so weird how Romania speaks a romance language, yeah their name has Roman literally writen on It, implying heavy latin influence in the region, but it's hard not to associate the place with eastern europe and slavic speaking nations.
Some old mentors of mine were Romanian, and I was always fascinated by the language. Apparently Romania was Rome's Australia, hence why they're geographically so far away from where a Latin language would be expected. They're some of the most genial people I've ever met, except when you "accuse" them of being Eastern European 😂
I owned a 410 Shotgun Martini Action made in Birmingham, but never knew who actually made it, the action was way over engineered, for 410 , I often wondered if it was a converted sportarised rifle/smooth bored into a shotgun. Had the gun a lot of years, many Rabbits, Rats, Crows and Pigeons, were taken while just walking around my friends farm.
Probably a .303” rifle smooth bored.410 and .303have such similar size cases albeit the .303” is brass and necked to the bullet but can fire formed with a 410 chamber and bored out barrel.
I remember at school, being told that the Russo-Turkish War of '77-78, was one of a run of 13 wars lost by the Ottoman Turks.
Not to be confused with .45 Gardner. :)
Or .45 Gardner-Gatling.
Romanian guns.. fell from the truck in Germany ;)
Welcome in my country.
Lets goo
Fricking early gang checking in
Hey!
I told you I recognized you... So here's my comment.
I imagine that was a long, long day...
Hope your flight went smoothly! ;)
I think that's a "pipe back" bayonet🤔
90% sure on that.
I worked for a plant manager that made me lie to customers about their order dates then late list them later.
I wonder what happened to all of them?
The optimism of that rear sight may have indicated a lack of artillery.
I know there's an andy richter joke in there somewhere.
I have a witten carbine in number 2 musket used by boer, ist boer war
I have a 1871 French bayonet.
Speaking of conversions and adaptations, have you ever talked about the Japanese short-stocked guns they built after finding out about long arms from the Portuguese? I’ve heard many claims about why they didn’t want to shoulder rifles from it not working with samurai armor to some cultural thing about improving aim not being honorable.
I give the first claim some credence but I’d like to know for sure.
th-cam.com/video/fRLIYz8f58E/w-d-xo.html
Yo early gang! What up.?
Does .45 Gatling mean the ammunition was compatible with gatling guns?
I was wondering that too. Another thing I have to Google later.
Only Gatlings made in .45 Gatling. Each contract for Gatling guns specified the cartridge the client wanted, and it could be a wide selection - .45-70, .43 Spanish, .42 Berdan, or many others.
@@ForgottenWeapons Thanks! For the sake of Romanian logistics I hope they bought that one!
@@ForgottenWeapons Oh. Great saved me doing a search. I had faith that you would respond. You are literally the best there is. Love your videos. It is great to learn about stuff that you did even know was a thing. I always feel smarter after one of your videos. No matter how much I know, you manage to teach me new things. Even with guns I know you surprise me with something I did not know.
Wearing an Icelandic lopi hoodie no less!
11:54 glitch in the Matrix? 😀
Red five standing by....
I like to have the ‘bestest’ stuff. 🤣
Do not mess with ian forgotten weapon, he will consume
Weren't the Ottoman "Martini-Henry" arms officially "Peabody-Martini" guns. Built by the Providence Tool Company.
With the Ottoman contract being an 'out of court' settlement of patent disputes, between Peabody and Martini.
Person from Massachusetts here: Peabody is pronounced “pee-buh-dee,” quickly though
Yep. I think I am finally at top 5 check in.
Roșiori was army unit Călărași was like a rangers or jandarms
My uncle had a .22 (at least I think that was the calibre) version of a M-H which he used to hunt rabbits with as a boy. I shot it a few times engaging in my 'Zulu' fantasy! I think he handed it in to a police station when a lot of weapons were banned in the UK.
[in a tone of distressful sorrow] Oh! My! That is so cringeworthy to read about . . . a rifle of a legendary classic design being tossed away, and not by choice, but by mandate.
Yep a 110 year old single shot 22 is a problem.
He could have got a licence but since he had given up hunting rabbits a long time since, he didn't see the point in owning it.
Ay im early for once
Bodeo 1889
Would love to have these guns in fallout new vegas
4:00 Gußstahl- und Waffenfabrik Witten vormals Berger & Co.
Wikipedia: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gussstahl-Werk_Witten
Today (2024): Deutsche Edelstahlwerke Specialty Steel
8:34 Ah hah! So someone DID copy the French! Romania! Specifically with respect to bayonets!
One of the worst mistakes any power did in WW1 was Romania entering the war in 1916 on the Entente side. Yeah they got rolled up fast and painfully by August von Mackensen and his veteran armies…let’s just say that fortunately it was over quick and why would you want to fight a guy who wears a deaths head hat for fun ? 😅
The Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78 was Russia saving the Christian citizens of the Ottoman Empire. They viewed it as their duty to protect them. Plevna was really the only setback, with the Russians steamrolling through the rest. It was actually the Second Campaign that won the war. The Armenian Campaign faced no set backs, and were on a clear marching path to Constantinople, forcing the Turks to sue for peace. A good book is actually Francis V. Greene's book. He was the American attaché to the Russians for the war. He tells how the failure at Plevna was mainly Russian artillery (mostly smooth bore muzzleloaders and even brass cannons that yes broke), lack of entrenching tools, and tactics while the Turks best quality of making and remaking defensive works stopping the Russians so much.
ARTHOR!!! -Dutch
Martini-Henry implies that the barrel has Martini rifling. Does it really?
No. Martini action with Henry rifling, in the barrel.
Same system that generates "Lee-Metford" and "Lee-Enfield".
@@kevinoliver3083 Sorry, I mistyped my question. Yes indeed, I meant Henry rifling 😂
Europe was so much better with guns
Куда английские ружья закатились...в Румынию...😳
first one to comment, like this things
you're a very lucky man you went to Romania and didn't get your wallet stolen
All the gipsy’s are in France England and Germany, so you’re safe in Romania.
Sometimes I forget that Romania once been a country.