Turner Semiauto SMLE Conversion
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Russell Turner was a Pennsylvania gunsmith and inventor who developed this semiautomatic conversion of an SMLE bolt action rifle circa 1940. It was intended for trial and potential sale to the Canadian military, as it would allow them to retrofit existing rifles into semiautomatic configuration and still use existing supplies of .303 British ammunition. Rather than try to devise a reliable system to rotate the original Enfield bolt, Turner replaced the bolt entirely, using instead a side-tilting design much like what he used in his M1 Carbine trials rifle for the US military. This was coupled with a long stroke gas piston and a hammer firing trigger mechanism.
Reportedly the rifle was tested by Canadian authorities, and performed quite well, with the adjustable gas system allowing it to function reliably even in temperatures of 25 below zero (where the Garand, tested alongside, experienced problems). However, Turner’s rifle was deemed to complex for military adoption.
That decision against the rifle was probably the right one for Canada, although Turner’s conversion is one of the better semi auto bolt acton conversions I have handled. It was remarkably non-awkward - that may not sound like much to crow about, but it sets a pretty high standard for this type of rifle.
/ forgottenweapons
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Almost Unknown
Battlefield be like "NOT ON MY WATCH!"
Gary Hamad is it in bfv?
Zack Davison yes and fairly good
@Zachary Peterson Its okay. Pretty fun at times.
Literally the best Semi auto rifle. I love the M1 Garand but the clips too small, this baby can hold up to 20 rounds if you get the extended clip.
@Zachary Peterson LOL bandwagoning at its finest BF5 is fine I don't know why people hate it.
Every time Ian talks about complex guns, I just have flashbacks to the AN-94.
Ah yes, the Slavic Rocket Surgery
Think of British world war 2 sub machine guns to calm down then.
@ That is my new favorite quote.
Hk G11 would like to step into the ring.
I will always remember how part of the disassembly procedure involved banging it on a table.
I find it ironic a Canadian designed the garand for the us, and an american designed this for them.
I didnt know that John Garand was a Canadian! Damn
Much in the same way that the primer used by American ammo suppliers was invented by an Englishman and the Berdan primer was invented by an American...all together now, "Haaands Across The Waters..."
@@hwl308 Canadian-American technically. He was a citizen.
WE got the best of the deal
@@russbilzing5348 Haha that song reference!
thats still about the slickest bolt conversion ive seen so far.
I'll never understand what defines a conversion.
I mean this thing has practically nothing shared with a SMLE
phileas007 except several things, magazine at least
Some, *some*, of the single shot to bolt action conversions were worth it
@@phileas007 It was CONVERTED, Thus it's a conversion.
@@phileas007 it was converted from hence it's a conversion
I would legitimately pay money for some one to make me a replica of one of these that functions. Hell I'd let them cut up a SMLE to make it, just love the way this looks, operates, and it being in 303, makes it odd.
Seems 113 other people agree with you.
I'm with you. I think these are actually incredibly cool
Get on it bro u know people will buy it just find a way to buy old parts and make a newly manufactured version of this
Drill purpose rifles would be a good place to source most of the parts.
Taking a second look at this, I thought of something: The bolt controls, safety and other parts look very glove-friendly compared to a lot of things in that day. That had to intrigue the Canadians as well.
You got that right.
Sometimes, simplicity has its own value. I'm sure we looked at it, but I do understand why we went the other way on that. Complexity is often not a great feature when field-stripping a rifle is needed.
It's a shame the Canadians didn't take into account the greater reliability and give him chance to design a more soldier friendly design in regards to maintenance
Is it though? I mean I imagine it was good for the war effort for commonwealth forces to use similar guns. Perhaps if it had come earlier and was better (and the UK had been enthusiastic) then maybe it would have been worth it.
Anthony Williams The Canadian Rangers still use the No.4 mk2 as a main service rifle
+Mr MoJo Risin I'd heard they went out of service there last year
+Anthony Williams to be "phased" out by correct 2015 but most rather wood and iron in -40 then polymer, they have the option but rather somthing reliable
They did get taken out of service and are being replaced by a version of Sako's T3 CTR rifle. More info can be found here:
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/06/25/replacement-selected-for-canadian-rangers-lee-enfield-rifles/
-25 “extremely cold” *laughs in Canadian*
Depends on wether he means Celsius or Fahrenheit
@@firestorm165 doesn't matter... I see -40 fairly regularly...
@@tritowns Just as an aside, -40 is the same on both scales. Here's me in the depths of an Australian winter thinking that +13C is bloody freezing!
@@allenjenkins7947 That's the thing, 13C is freezing cold compared to 25, 30 or 35 C.
I live in the land of great contrast, which is northern Sweden. Summers are kind of short, but still end of june-end of august is usually nice and warm. There are usually a few days, sometimes a few weeks, of entire day-night cycles when it's between 20C and 40C or at least never colder than 15-18C even in the middle of the night... Because the sun barely goes down. 40C in the shade is rare, but i can't remember a summer when it hasn't been above 30C in the shade and mostly the temp is above 20C in the shade daytime all summer.
Winter is almost the opposite. End of december-early march it can get real cold. Usually there are at least a couple of days when it gets to -35C or below, but -10 to -25 is regularly what it's like, with occasional warmness of -10 to +5, mostly in march. End of march to beginning of may is what we call "spring-winter", this is the time for really enjoying snowmobiles, skiing, snowboarding etc. The temp is usually above -10C in the air, although the further into april and even into may you get, the warmer it gets in the sun! The snow is slowly melting for most of the end of march and through april in the daytime sun. It can be cold and snowy, but when the sun's out it's like 5-10-15-20 C in the sun and life is just beautiful on a snowmobile or cooking by a fire or just carving up a mountain. As long as it gets below 0 at night, you can enjoy winter activities, but at the end of april-beginning of may it's usually above freezing at night and so the snow and ice just go away in a couple of weeks.
Thing is, in the fall/autumn +10 can feel quite cold, especially because it's damp and the sunlight diminishes every day. In the spring, when you're used to the cold winter, +10 usually invokes me to go back to t-shirt and jeans, especially on a sunny day!
@Allen Jenkins I wear t-shirts at that weather. A light jacket is fine up until it hits -25° or more, then gloves and a thicker coat are necessary to avoid frostbite. That being said, you're probably more used to hot weather than I am. I can't stand anything over 35°.
A side note, a girl was being rather dumb in the next town over last tear and didn't wear gloves when she was walking outside in -40°. She had to get several fingers amputated. She was only outside for under ten minutes.
So yeah. Wear gloves if its below -25 or -30, if you like your fingers.
5:10 to 6:05 If the Canadian, British, and Commonwealth armies had adopted theTurner conversion, it is likely the rear knob sight would have been replaced with a flip-up rear aperture sight similar to the ones used on the Mk.5 and No.4 Lee-Enfields.
you cant deny that any form or type of lee enfield is just awesome
Except an obrez
Except a broken Enfield
@@baker90338 that was the Mosin
@SapidSalamander as cool as the Obrez is, yeah I would never do that to my Lee Enfield.
*R I M L O C K*
All of these semi-auto conversions have a weird, wonky yet for whatever reason appealing look to me :D
DesRoin That's my problem too, alas, finances do not permit acquisition 🍻
And the more Heath Robinson they are, the more they appeal! No idea why... maybe its the Steampunk in all of us lol
Wonky weapons are sexy 🥰
That's aweso- "estimated price $10,000 - $20,000" aaaand nevermind :(
really not bad for a one of a kind prototype.
Maybe.....
Ha ha ha what a good imitation of a poor person, 10 to 20 k is barely walking around money hahaha!!!
I don't care how wealthy you are, if you walk around with that kind of cash you're a fool.
I gather it was probably a joke..
Rarity bro
This is by far the coolest looking rifle I’ve ever seen, it’s got such a wwII look, the wood with all the metal joined together, from Great War wooden gun technology to 40s machine gun metal, all the barrel cooling holes look nice and sleek, the magazine is slick and angular and there is so much I love about this
Canada was using Yards back then. We didn't switch to metric until the late 70s
Interesting since Britain itself uses a mixture of both because of indecision. The schools teach metric and all the road signs are in imperial units. People weigh themselves in kg and use feet and inches for height, miles instead of km and either yards or metres depending on their mood. Its confusing.
joezzzify From Confederation until about 1970-71, Canada was on the Imperial system. England started the swap in 1965.
Despite being born after Canada went metric, I learned both systems, and still do the bulk of my ballistic calculations in MOA, Yards, Inches and feet per second.
People weigh themselves in stone, not kilograms.
i was sure we didnt use metric back then. good to see i was right. everything firearms related we use imperial and really the only metric unit i use is speed on the road. even distance is miles since road allowance is by the mile
***** You'd be surprised how many CAN'T,
Ian you really are a universe of weapon history & knowledge, I really really am amazed how many details you know of every rifle, pistol or any other weapon you showing. The more your videos I watch the more hunger I get of understanding of everything you showing on the TH-cam. I honestly thank you for your videos.
I am simple semi-auto enthusiast. I see semi-auto conversion, I click like.
TheGoldenCaulk 👍
With eyes like yours I bet you see everything
Canada didn't start converting to the metric system until the 1970s, so that elevation adjustment should be in yards.
Siesta Time I was thinking the same🍻
Both the Canadian and US army's have been Metric for a long time.
Canada went metric in the mid 70s. The rifle would of use Yards for it's sights.
Results of watching this video:
I want to collect Lee Enfields even more. Even conversions.
I need to consider moving to the US.
I believe the Canadians, like the rest of the Commonwealth/Empire, were still using Imperial measurements during WWII. So the scale on the sights would be in yards.
He should know this from the Canadian fal episode.
@@chickenman1801the FAL came well after WW2 for Canada. Metric conversion was also well after WW2.
It's beautiful.
It's one of the most steampunk guns I've ever seen.
I need one.
The fact that he helped with battlefield 1 and battlefield v makes this guy even more awesome
This is one of the coolest semiauto conversions I've ever seen. I would love to get hands on this rifle.
This is one of the coolest rifles you've ever featured. Great video!
I really love the look of this rifle, the holes in the front of the stock around the gas system, the blocky receiver, and that big dial to adjust the sights give it a really neat look. If only it wasn't so damn expensive :^)
A while ago when watching your excellent presentation of the Charlton semi automatic conversion, I thought "the bolt has to be replaced " and here you go!!
Thank you for a superb channel.
I absolutely love all these types of conversions. Looks awesome and incredibly interesting
I've been watching your videos for 8 months now and I'm not even halfway thru. FW and in range are definitely my favorite on youtube.
Great comprehensive video Ian, thank you for your work. Fascinating. 😊
I love the format, Ian. Absolutely enchanting!
I have a belief that in the design process you begin with a very simple concept. You work through each facet of the design one at a time no matter how complex it gets. Than once you have realized the end result you go back through and design the complexity out of the machine. Judging from some of your other videos I am starting to believe that there just was not a good way to convert a bolt action to a semi-auto. Its amazing how these are so much more complex than either a bolt action or a semi-auto. Very cool, I really appreciate your videos.
This gun look dope AF
The conversion kit gives it a very high-tech look, especially on the front end with the gas piston. It looks really cool.
This is one of the coolest things I've seen on this channel
Kind of cool to see the file marks and welding. I can imagine the guy busting his butt in his shop for a concept he is really into.
Saw this in BFV, loved it!
cool rifle and great video . It appears that the bolt was in battery ,sliding the bolt to the notch in the side plate and and depressing the hold open device, may have allowed you to disassemble the rifle completely.
This is one of the coolest ancient semi autos i must say. Thank you for your time in bringing us along .
I love Lee Enfield rifles, but I never knew this existed! Thanks for sharing Ian!
That is a cool system! I love the out of battery safety. Clever stuff
the trigger group is really interesting. when i look at it, it reminds me of a single set trigger from the mid nineteenth century at the very end of flint and the beginning of percussion era's.i would like very much to get a good look at that.oh well.thanx Ian,you've taught me a lot about modern firearms which of course,are the descendants of the flintlock firearms that i like to build.
It's like a Garand, and an Enfield, and a baby that was raised by a horrifying mad scientist.
such a beautiful gun, always wondered about a semi auto bolt action and its functionality
Absolutely brilliant
Very promising design! Love it. Now lets see you tear it down blindfolded!
WOuld 've been an amazing thing had it not been a pain to disassemble but I'd give it a solid 9/10 for it.
When Ian McCollum himself expresses a desire to avoid disasssmbling your rifle twice, your gun is officially Too Complicated.
My favorite rifles are the lees and this one is the Frankenstein i had to whatch this a couple times i just found it so fascinating the engineering in this rifle is awesome!!! Love it !
I just found this channel and I have to say it's pretty sweet
Fun fact, the Canadian government is only now replacing the Lee Enfield No. 4 rifles we were issuing to the Canadian Rangers basically since '41. We finally started running out of replacement parts. We're now issuing the Rangers with Colt C-19s, which is actually just a Finnish SAKO rifle that Colt Canada licensed.
Though, if you need a cold-weather rifle, the Finns are probably your best bet.
A licensed version of the Tikka T-3 to be more exact.
The hand fitting on this had to be a nightmare. Also, little did they know they were making a gun that Ian McCollum can't take apart with a biro.
I would quit my job tomorrow and be a gunsmith if I could. I love working on guns and to have the knowledge and talent to make stuff like this would be amazing. I would probably never leave my shop. The time and machine work that went into this is very, very impressive if you've ever done any kind of tinkering making gun parts. It ain't pretty, but it was a prototype and only needed to function.
Thanks for the video I would love to see this on a life fire range video..
Needs more pieces...
(Just kidding!)
Wow! Thanks for posting this, Ian.
I had never heard of this one before, let alone seen inside it.
I am aware of the Huot and Charlton Automatic Rifles (conversion of the Ross and the SMLE), but this is all new to me.
Besides the obvious SMLE heritage, it looks like parts of a Garand, an SVT-40, and an FN-49 were all blacksmithed together!
You are braver than I, taking it all apart like that. :)
Cheers,
Dean
6:13 ''A pain in the butt to get back in'' Oh behave!
14:00 British & Commonwealth riflemen & marksmen/sharpshooters were issued a spare mag or *two & they were mainly there as a backup if the spring for the current mag in use fails
*(second spare is usually a stolen one from the QM)
I just ran across this, the action is pretty slick, I've got a couple old smle actions from RFI in 308, maybe I should sort of replicate this as close as I can. Thanks for a very interesting action.
These bolt action rifle conversions to semi-auto are so fascinating mechanical-wise.
Love the welding on the gas piston
Nice too hear some Canadian firearms history, it's a rare topic on major channels
Are you at Forgotten Weapons aware of any records of further R&D on Turner's patents by Savage Arms? I vaguely recall something mentioned in some thing I read some time ago that said they experimented with this action. I know that is really vague but I wondered if in your reference and resource material if you had a mention of that.
It looks like something that has journeyed through hell and back. It's so crude and rugged, I absolutly love it!
Looks friggin wicked.
This is the first semiauto conversion of an SMLE that doesn't scare the stuffing out of me. Give me a production version and I'd use it!
I think it is impressive design wise.... I honestly think the disassembly is pretty good for a prototype. I like the spring pin assembly method.
At 5:26 - Canadians measured in yards back then. Converted to meters (or metres) in 1970. I still shoot in yards. Also, my truck gets 45 furlongs to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it. LOL!
Reply
Complicated but cool. Never seen a trigger group quite like that one with that roller thing on there.
This is an amazing design. I could see this being added to Ian's personal collection. Shame they weren't produced in quantity.
Ian,
Looking at the trigger mech outside the gun, it looks like the sear is lowered both when pulling and when releasing the trigger. Is there some means of preventing hammer fall when the trigger is released when assembled?
Wish you could have gotten one of these out to the range, would've be cool to see it in action.
46 views in 1 minute. Jesus Ian.
Ben M *gun jesus
True
That's about average for a TH-camr
There are plenty of TH-camrs who get more. PewDiePie for example.
Ben Parsons uh...fuck no
`The first semi auto SMLE was designed by Ion Idress during WWI while he was fighting with the Australian Light Horse in the holy land. They used railway fish plates for the metal. He got to demonstrate in front of the army heads and it worked very well and they were impressed by it, but by this time they were getting more Lewis guns so converting rifles wasn't needed. WWII saw the NZ (whose workshop was used for the manufactory) Came up with the same design but called Chambers patent I think.
Another awesome weapon.
Looks like the sideplate it jamming against the bolt-release mechanism on the bolt handle.
I think it would be possible to solve this blocking by pushing in the bolt handle release while moving the plate.
That's what I'm thinking. Push in and hold the button then pull out the plate.
i have the same idea....push in that little button, and it should give just enough wiggle room
at least...thats what we can figure out with our eye balls. lol
on 2nd look.....i think pushing in the release would jsut make things worse....
possibly you pull out on the bolt stop button, and then the bolt release part would slide out of the op rod???
Yeah, that's what i thought too.
I've been thinking about this also... at 7.24 when Ian is talking about being unable to release the side plate he lifts up a little tab. if the plate was still in place the lug on the bolt handle would fit into the gap that the lever uncovers allowing the side plate to come straight out of the receiver and then move backwards with the bolt/carrier until it's free to swing out sideways. My 2p
There's some very interesting concepts being tried out in this design. It's a pity that they never got to be developed further. The idea of using the point of a bullet as a disassembly tool would have been great if there had been fewer bits to remove with it.
Mind you, all that being said you can field strip a Garand or any of its derivatives without any tools.
This is an insanely badass looking rifle and I can’t tell why
beautiful rifle
If I had the funds, I would definitely be bidding on this. You weren't joking though, that thing is complicated as hell.
Good stuff.
Looking at those milling marks, that's pretty definitively a working prototype!
As a Canadian, I need one.
David Mcwatters Bid on it and let us know how it shoots🍻
Well, now most Semi-Autos are illegal in Canada...
Fuck.
@@spartans-4196 And now they're trying to ban most semi-autos in the US... Fuck indeed.
That thing is awesome
Looks like it be a pain in the ass for a field strip.
almost need a table to do it on.
@@jonblais6225 and an engineering degree
Love it!
Just a note if it wasn't mentioned already, but Canada didn't adopt metric until the mid 1960's so the sight would still be graduated in yards at the time this semi-auto was developed.
Marvellous! Small correction: range would be calibrated in yards. Canada did not go metric until 1975.
the hammer/sear combo is like a 10/22
That 100% belongs on bioshock.
Side panel removal is done by sliding the bolt back at the same time, the notch fits after half inch ish of travel then slides back together.
From the no 8 cadet rifle to the mark 4 SMLE, the L39 and L42 I think I must have fired most of them, but that one. phew.. All I can say is Im glad UK went from the Mk 4 to the SLR! Lots and lots of bits to loose in the mud on this one... ! Really not soldier proof at all. But fun. Love the films mate keep it up. Best from UK.
That trigger group is a very interesting system.
Hi ian just wandering how many of these rifles that you show are firing ready? Cos itd be very cool to see this Lee conversion firing
That is actually a pretty neat conversion. Like Ian says, it´s a one-time prototype so i´m sure Mr. Turner would have made further refinements. I´m thinking he seems a bit of a genius that man.
When you tried to remove the side plate, have you tried to push the bolt release thumb tab (4:16) as well? It seems to me the side plate needs to be lifted a little bit more and the thumb tab is in the way.
Jiří Strouhal I was thinking the same thing.
The air vents on stock and shroud and the front sight protection piece just give this rifle a great look, steam punk I think
We need to see this at the range
Absolutely fascinating! So how how many original SMLE parts were left?
When Gun Jesus says “THIS thing is... OY.” about disassembly, you KNOW your design is TRULY GNARLY
Not to mention machining all those parts on manual machines of the 1940s ai ai ai !
Ian,
Can you make a video of the top 5(or 10) of the most interesting "forgotten weapons" that you'd like to get your hands on?
Canada didn't apparently swap to metric until after 1970. Therefore the rear sight is almost certainly graduated in yards, not metres/meters.
Turner would later be lauded for his next Canadian invention, the Bachman-Turner Overdrive
That must be some seriously complicated disassembly if Ian can't get it apart. Perhaps the side panel just has to bend a bit to come off, I understand not wanting to bend it to see though.
Also, if you where able to hold the trigger exactly at the disengage point would it fire full auto? I doubt anyone could keep the trigger in that spot without mechanical assistance though.
I think this rifle looks rather good. Sure, it is a bit complicated to take apart, and it is a bit rough on welds and machining, but being a prototype, I fully understand that. It does not look like a conversion at all. It looks like it was designed from the ground up to be like that, and that is a major accomplishment for such a conversion.