Regarding the question about heat at 16:52, Keep in mind heat doesn't "rise." Only hot fluids rise, like air and water. heat will travel along any metal just fine, in any direction. So you can heat or chill those plates and the heat will be transferred to or from the whole battery that is in contact with that metal.
Keep in mind that this battery pack was designed by Bosch in ~2012 for 2013 production. Given that this is 10 year old design, it is a testament to the engineering that went into creating this pack for the 500e.
Although the Fiat 500e has a rather large Achilles Heal - it's lack of DC fast charging - it also has a number of really desirable features. It's entire drive train is designed and supplied by Bosch, and the battery pack is liquid heated and cooled. Even the Nissan Leaf doesn't have that feature. Another really nice thing for people wanting to get in EVs but can't afford a brand new one is, used Fiat 500es can be found for well under $10k. In fact really good one with low miles and one owner can easily be found for less than $9k even. If your commute is the average of less than 30 miles like most people, then this might be an excellent choice for you. P.s. The 2020 Fiat 500e DOES have DC fast charging (and a MUCH larger battery), but it will not be available in the US. :(
I think the biggest weak point is the freeway range. DC fast charging would be a nice option but I don't miss it much, it's harder to find and more expensive. I think 60 mi is really stretching on a mostly freeway drive
@@robertpryor7225 Yeah, EVs are the opposite of ICE cars in this regard: They do worse on highways and better in stop-and-go traffic. My Kia Soul EV is not the most aerodynamic vehicle ever made so I definitely don't get as good results on the highway, but I'm pleasantly surprised that I almost always get 3.9-4.1 miles per kwh, even in the winter with the heat on or in the summer with the A/C on. I do wish it was more aerodynamic though. Not much they can do in that category without changing the shape radically (which is what people like about it).
We're back from 28 days in Hawaii. Had a Versa for 14 days & a Smart for three. No EV's avail 😥 On returning home & driving the 500e again. This thing is fast ! Grinning a lot while driving. Mine's been bulletproof reliable for 22k + miles. Currently 55k.
This is very cool of you showing all of this to the world. These videos are underrated and so valuable for the sake of learning how these modern cars work. Thanks a lot. These videos couldn't have better given me the idea of what I am about to buy. Looking for a 500e for myself. Thanks so much.
We're back from 28 days in Hawaii. Thanks ! I'm glad you found it useful. The 500e is still the best EV for the money. If you need something bigger, then both the Kia Soul & VW e-Golf are my top picks. If more range for the dollar, then a GM Bolt EV.
Loved seeing that! I totally agree about the cooling being problematic. That’s probably why Tesla has their fancy system that pushes fluid between all the cells. I suppose this is a case of “something is better than nothing”.
Great video! I just bought a 2017 500e and have been driving it for about 3 weeks. It’s an awesome car! It was really interesting to see all of the engineering that went into the battery. I really enjoy all of your videos. I can’t wait to do some of the mods that you have done. Thanks.
FASCINATING! I got a 2017 Fiat 500e in the spring of 2022 and I love my little electric egg! I just drove on snowy roads and it was a champ. I figured it had something to do with the batteries making it heavier than other cars this size, and the weight being low and distributed. When I found your video, now I see that is true!
They are nice cars. Nice design, simple controls with buttons (none of that touch screen crap). Just a bit hefty for the size & no L3 charging holds it back a bit.
Heat only really rises in gas or liquid form. Since the battery is solid I don’t think the orientation of the cooling pad makes a large difference. That being said it could be way more surface area but I think it’s sufficient considering the low power draw off the 500e. Thanks for posting this!
The latest Samsung SDI cells used in the BMW i3 have 120Ah vs the 60Ah the 500e uses, so that's 100% more capacity. Even if you happen to get your hands on a salvage 2019 i3, you would still be short one cell, since the i3 uses 96 cells vs. the 97 the 500e uses. Also those battery frames keep the cells under a lot of tension, they don't come out easily.
The heat only goes up when we are talking about air, only the hot air goes up due to its density. In a solid it doesn't matter, the head just goes everywhere and the cooling panels absorb that heat from the bottom of the packs the same way they would do if they were on top.
It’s a compression washer on the nut - like a lock washer, it locks by way of flattening the washer itself between the contact patch of the nut and the bolted surfaces but without scoring the surface as a normal lock washer does when tightened if i’m correct.
Guessing at which wire does what does not make for a good video. Please ask someone in the know before guessing. The contactors are driven by the 12v system, that is not the 240v AC inlet - which needs to hit the on-board charger, first, to be turned into DC for the battery pack.
Hey John, Great video! Even after 2 years it’s very useful. I have the same issue as one of the previous viewers. The contactor inside my BDCU (Battery Disconnect Unit) that makes the normal clunk sound is not activating. I followed all the suggestions on the forums (12V battery replacement, HV fuse cycle, AlfaOBD cycle, even disconnecting the humidity sensor in the cabin. What I understand is that the contactor won’t actuate when the individual cell voltage drops below 3v. There is also an occasional dreaded display of 47% battery life (most of the time it’s 0%). I bought the 2013 500e with 49k miles at auction, so I know based on the registration that it sat for at least a year, maybe 2. The fixes I’ve seen for the no clunk, and HV cell voltage below 3v is dropping the battery pack and charging each bank individually to get hv cell voltage above 3v on all batteries before putting everything back. My question to you is; based on your video, is it possible to trace back the 12v relay source source to the contactors (the part that makes the normal clunks, and add the 12v externally, in order to engage the contactor. Any help would be appreciated. I really don’t want to drop the battery pack (remove the rear axial, bleed brakes and battery cooling fluid, and especially jimmy rig several chargers to individually charge the modules for 2 days.
I don't see how that would change anything. The computer would need to see all the sensors present & working for it to do anything. I would hunt down a 400v charger with speeds up to 6.6 kWh, unplug the HV battery (no need to remove it), & run jumpers to the battery that way. If that doesn't work, then: drop the pack, use the same equipment except bypassing the contactors completely. It should just be a battery with a charger connected at that point. The ideal of dropping the whole pack and charging each individual 5 or 6 cell module would be insane. At that point, best just to take it all apart & reuse or part out the modules (as in the video). That's assuming that they take a charge at all. Might be just a cell or module bringing the whole pack down or the whole thing is damaged. Try to get a whole "used pack" out of a salvage donor car and swap that in. That would be cheaper and much easier. Just a day's work to do the complete job. No matter what, your in a bad situation. "Time is money" & I wouldn't waste either.
@@theevolvingworld I am planning to try and charge the battery while it’s still in the car with a 400v charger. I also have a car where the battery back has been completely discharged and is in limited power mode and not charging. I’ve been told the only way to fix it after trying all the other forum tricks with alfaobd is to drop the pack. This would be amazing if the charger worked without removing the battery. Thanks for your videos and help in the comments!
@@KennyGillis The contactors (essentially HV relays) that are shown at 10:40 would need to be activated by a 12v source. You can verify by doing a voltage check at the HV connectors on the pack or even the 6.6 kW charger circuit next to it as they join together (it will be open, no voltage). The pack may still be good if it has not been fully discharged for a lengthy period of time. Most likely expect to drop the pack and open it up. The contactors or other related parts of the system in the same area are most likely the culprit. At that point, you should be able to bypass all of that, take a voltage reading, and hook up your 400v charger to charge it up, if needed. You should be able pinpoint the problem and fix it. Then reinstall. Please be extremely careful, 400v can kill you. Best of luck!
@@theevolvingworld Thank you so much for the detailed reply! I'm guessing there is not a way to close the contactors with 12V without removing the battery pack? I know dropping the battery is a little tougher than a Leaf since you have to remove suspension parts, but I'm excited to give this a go! Thank you!
I’d sure like to know how those prismatic batteries cells are connected inside, I’m wondering if you’d have to disconnect all the top components to pull them out? Fascinating disassembly. 👍🏼
The 10mm nuts have an integral washer and that washer is not flat. When you tighten the nut the washer flattens out and the pressure of the washer holds it in place. No need for teeth on the washer. These washers are far superior to your standard split washers.
The interior ambient temperature of the case is kept cool and sucks heat out of the cells through simple conduction and natural convection within the case. Imagine a Nissan Leaf with no cooling inside it's battery module case. I have a Leaf and the battery cooling sucks, and not heat, just sucks, lol.
@@theevolvingworld like seriously a possibility? am considering buying one, just because i like it, but it would be nice if it could be future proof’d, or at least know am not buying a brick after 150k mi.
Considering the importance of the health of the 12v battery, does the monitoring system tell you when it should be replaced (rather than when it's already knocking on death's door like in an ICE car)? Just wondering.
@@robertpryor7225 Well I guess that's better than nothing. You'd think they'd be a little more clever, like measuring the voltage before and after it is being charged by the system and watching for a trend of lowering voltage and/or amperage and letting you know that the 12V battery is not working as it should. The guy on this channel replaced it with a lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery, which lasts up to 10 times as long as a lead acid battery. That video is here: th-cam.com/video/X_0lFn9YFNg/w-d-xo.html
I have a 500E with a battery problem. I'm thinking of taking out the battery pack and trying to charge each module separately. I want to put it back in, so I was wondering if you noticed if that could be done easily. The modules in the middle look somewhat awkward to access, but maybe I could use the bus bars to charge the modules. Do you think such a procedure is doable? Someone mentioned somewhere that a Dutch operation were do this.
How many miles are on the car. 4 of the five EV's I've owned had battery degradation at 30,000 miles. 3 first gen leafs and one volt. Luckily I leased all four.
Yea go electric and when you charge up do it with fossil fuels. Also when the batteries are produced they pollute nearly 10x as much as you would have if you just drove a gasoline car. I’ve got 2 electric cars but I don’t kid myself into thinking I’m saving the environment.
Regarding the small and large battery sizes - if these are all connected in series, wouldn't you see mismatched capacities for the individual cells? I must be missing something!
Ok, I watched ep. 8 and answered my question. The larger batteries just have more cells in series, but with the same capacity per cell. Great video, super helpful!
This could not have better timing. I'm having my 500e towed home tomorrow so I strip the batteries. The car has catastrophic front end damage when we were hit by a drunk driver. Broken rt foot should be healed in time for summer dismantling.
Thank goodness you did not sustain any further injuries! The complete 500e teardown series should help you out. The battery is the big ticket easiest to remove item. If you can, grab: all the orange cabling, accelerator pedal, heater, motor, charger, controller/inverter & electric A/C compressor. Maybe the wheels/tires, shocks/springs, brakes/rotors, & taillights. Most everything else is garbage. Hope you recover fully & sue the drunk!
Thanks! Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your BMS. The procedure to get to it is covered in this video. Maybe, track down the used parts on eBay & replace. Frankly, if your HV battery SOH is good, I won't worry about the BMS too much.
I've always seen it as the best 2nd use of HV batteries out of an higher mileage or crashed EV. The trick is open sourced software along with the hardware for a proper connection to the grid or solar. Or a company needs to develop the software & hardware as a kit without the batteries included. Hopefully, we'll have this option soon!
Glad you liked it. It's the first generation model, a factory EV conversion (U.S. model only) compliance car produced 2013.5 - 2019. The second generation is completely different car designed to be an EV from the start. Available only in Europe and is the best selling EV in Europe out selling Tesla.
John i build this trike with 8 of the 6 cell packs for 201 v charged. my question is you mention the BMW cell are more amp hour. but are the packs the same L x W x H
But the biggest question I have, and thousands of other potential would be buyers of this model is: What happens to the battery range as the car accumulates more and more miles? Can I expect for example the same 91 maximum miles range on a full charge for the 2017 500E under ideal conditions, when the used model I buy for $8,000 now with 25,000 miles, (going market price out of Southern California where there is a huge supply right now ) when the electric car's has say 100,000 miles over the next 4 years?)
Yes, the range will decrease with use. If you keep the battery charged between 10-90%, is the most effective way to preserve the range. So yes, that means 20% less max range, but for several years longer. Please see my video on 500e battery degradation.
John, great vid. I'm helping a friend troubleshoot a '15 he thinking of buying. However quite dead, new 12V, still dead, no contactor noise, is that the battery disconnect unit you speak of? Looks to be accessible only when you take the battery apart or is the actual contactor elsewhere?
A fresh 12v normally fixes everything... if all else is well. The battery disconnect is shown @ 1:20-1:25. It's accessible from inside the car by lifting the rear seat cushion. If there's a short in the system, it would blow out the fuse that's in that unit. I would check that. The Contactors that make the loud "click click" noise is shown @ 10:18-10:48. They can only accessed with the HV battery fully out. There are some little fusible link looking parts that connect at this same area that seem to fail or blow out from misuse . This is based off of how many requests I have gotten for these parts. I only had the two original ones that sold long time back. Hope this helps you.
@@theevolvingworld John, I trust the fuse in the HV disconnect is between the 2 forked terminals, I'll check that soon. Is there any other way to identify that the contactor is the issue or better yet to force it open or closed. I've tried AlfaOBD without success.
I bought four of these modules salvaged from eBay. I want to make two 36v banks for a small sailboat motor. Do you have any recommendations for setting up a bms before I put the two 18v in series?
The Power Inverter Module (PIM) is located adjacent the HV Motor it controls (See teardown #2). It takes the DC current from the battery & powers the motor or regen brakes it back the other way. No nice way to say this. But, it's toast. Good side of it is, you got some nice parts to be used in converting a cool classic into a cool EV. See my Cappuccino EV & PAO EV projects.
Hello! I have a Fiat 500E that needs a new battery .Fiat is quoting 30k to replace it... I know there's refurbished batteries online for much cheaper. i was wondering if you offer repair services to help me getting the car going again
Ideally you should be getting a complete pack out of a salvage vehicle 2014-2019 with low miles and never completely discharged. I doubt anybody will be rebuilding these packs with out losing money on the labor it takes to do so. Sorry, I don't offer my services other than in the form of videos.
I am following the videos on the Fiat 500e and I give you many compliments. I wanted to ask you if it is possible to replace the battery pack with a larger one, for example 42 kw or higher. The cost? Can you do this job? And at what price? Thanks
Thanks for compliments. I've answered this question quite a few times already (you must have missed it). The short answer is: it's a waste of time, just buy something else that's newer with proper fast charging included. The best selling EV in Europe is the new Fiat 500 (that says a lot).
Hey man, is there a way to talk to you somewhere? There's not a lot of people doing teardowns of the 500e, I have a wild hair of wanting to try changing the battery modules to extend the range of the 500e, I think it'd be a really fun project.
You can reach me here. I've already stated my thoughts on cell replacements for the 2013-19 FiIAT 500e. But, don't let that stop you. Please document & share when you do. Ciao.
@@theevolvingworld I just replied to your video about manually activating the contactor. I wanted to pick your brain. Hopefully you are still checking these posts. I have one healthy 500e and one that is dead. Hoping to get your advice on the dead one due to battery being discharged for a long time.
Hi I have a 2015 fiat 500e that is diagnosed with needing a BPCM replacement and recovery of the High Voltage battery. I am in the Bay Area and am looking for someone who is capable of doing this.
if I want to add dc charger port ,does I can use high voltage socket from the front of the battery? plz answer me because I want to modify my car to support dc fast charger
I'm not sure if Stellantis (formerly FCA) made a whole lotta extra battery packs for the first gen 500e. If you can find a "new" one it will most likely cost more than the car is worth. Best to find a low mileage "used" one and swap it. My teardown videos cover the removal procedure. Installation is basically the same in reverse. The Fiat 500e returns to the U.S. market later this year as a 2024 (second gen) model. 😃
whats the life span of a battery like this ? and precisely talking about a 2017 500e fiat battery with 29k miles on the mileage ? and price of a new one if thats not to much haha thanks...
First of al,l it's exactly the same pack as this 2015. My video on "500e Battery Degradation" seems to suggest it will be at 50% capacity at around 150,000 miles. Driving & charging habits will be the biggest factor. You could have 2,900 miles & discharge the battery to 0%, leave it for a month, & that would severely damage it or maybe kill it.
In 30 years they will also look back on this time and wonder, what were people thinking driving around with 20 gallons of extremely flammable fluid in the car..
Hey John! Just wondering if there’s a way to contact you and pick your brain on a 500e project I’m starting. It may be up your alley. I’m considering doing a chassis swap from a 1989 Nissan Pao to the 500e. I want to get your thoughts and potential watch outs. Thanks!
Hi, Benjamin. Two things: First, I love the Nissan PAO, in fact I have one in my collection. It's not the one I'm working on presently, but It's scheduled for conversion at a later date. Second, when you say chassis swap I interpret that as taking a PAO body & placing it on to a newer Fiat platform. That would be a massive logistical nightmare. Instead, I would do a simple powertrain swap on the PAO to keep it light and better overall. If you want, you can leave your e-mail address here & I'll contact you.
The Evolving World that’s great to hear! A fellow Pao owner. I imagine it’s a lot to figure out, but my thought was to essentially remove everything on the Fiat down to nearly the rolling chassis as the wheelbase is exactly the same, and the width is maybe an inch different. But I would love to hear your thoughts, and recommendations on what you would do. Feel free to email me at ben@onvoltage.com
I have your information, I'll contact you at a future time. I'm working on my EV conversion project after a 4 month hiatus and I'm determined to finish it uninterrupted ASAP. I'll add to what I already stated earlier . They are both unibody cars with similar suspensions & an identical wheelbase. But, being a "unibody" is the key word. If it was a "body on frame" car, that would allow all kinds of possibilities.
Pretty interesting breakdown but I'm not terribly impressed with the design of the whole battery pack. IMO, too specific to one vehicle and just not the battery sled idea that most people envision for an EV. It looks expensive to make, build and seems to have limited cooling but the final negative is it's just not that powerful. Making a more powerful pack with this design concept seems damn near impossible.
Yeah, it's very much done out of a "need to" & not so much a "want to". But, the overall car did manage to come out quite good & has been reliable. It will be interesting to see if the next gen Fiat EV will be a more "EV only" design or just another compliance car conversion.
@@robertpryor7225 2012 actually. It was released in 2012. Mine is a 2013. Amazing to think Bosch already had developed the majority of those components by 2010 (or so).
@@theevolvingworld sorry for going back and forth in between videos the fiat 500e is a 2015 and also want to know if i can charge complete battery package with power inverter and what wattage should i charge at
@@novawagon559 First you will need to determine what the current voltage of the battery pack is. It should be 320-390v. Higher number is greater SOC. You'll need a 400v power supply bench charger. Any speed under 6.6 KWh.
@@theevolvingworld awesome ill update you when i find the faulty battery module and when i get car running again. Thank you for you help it is much appreciated
Oh! Thank you very much, you are so kind answering my question. Please if you know someone that can sale too me this module, please let me know. Greetings from Mexico.
Regarding the question about heat at 16:52, Keep in mind heat doesn't "rise." Only hot fluids rise, like air and water. heat will travel along any metal just fine, in any direction. So you can heat or chill those plates and the heat will be transferred to or from the whole battery that is in contact with that metal.
Keep in mind that this battery pack was designed by Bosch in ~2012 for 2013 production. Given that this is 10 year old design, it is a testament to the engineering that went into creating this pack for the 500e.
Although the Fiat 500e has a rather large Achilles Heal - it's lack of DC fast charging - it also has a number of really desirable features. It's entire drive train is designed and supplied by Bosch, and the battery pack is liquid heated and cooled. Even the Nissan Leaf doesn't have that feature. Another really nice thing for people wanting to get in EVs but can't afford a brand new one is, used Fiat 500es can be found for well under $10k. In fact really good one with low miles and one owner can easily be found for less than $9k even. If your commute is the average of less than 30 miles like most people, then this might be an excellent choice for you.
P.s. The 2020 Fiat 500e DOES have DC fast charging (and a MUCH larger battery), but it will not be available in the US. :(
I think the biggest weak point is the freeway range. DC fast charging would be a nice option but I don't miss it much, it's harder to find and more expensive.
I think 60 mi is really stretching on a mostly freeway drive
@@robertpryor7225 Yeah, EVs are the opposite of ICE cars in this regard: They do worse on highways and better in stop-and-go traffic. My Kia Soul EV is not the most aerodynamic vehicle ever made so I definitely don't get as good results on the highway, but I'm pleasantly surprised that I almost always get 3.9-4.1 miles per kwh, even in the winter with the heat on or in the summer with the A/C on. I do wish it was more aerodynamic though. Not much they can do in that category without changing the shape radically (which is what people like about it).
Enjoyed, thanks, I"m at 51K miles on my 2016 without any issues thus far, I really love the car....I had 4 Nissan Leafs before :)
You like these better than the Leaf? I'm trying to decide which.
We're back from 28 days in Hawaii. Had a Versa for 14 days & a Smart for three. No EV's avail 😥 On returning home & driving the 500e again. This thing is fast ! Grinning a lot while driving. Mine's been bulletproof reliable for 22k + miles. Currently 55k.
This is very cool of you showing all of this to the world. These videos are underrated and so valuable for the sake of learning how these modern cars work. Thanks a lot. These videos couldn't have better given me the idea of what I am about to buy. Looking for a 500e for myself. Thanks so much.
We're back from 28 days in Hawaii. Thanks ! I'm glad you found it useful. The 500e is still the best EV for the money. If you need something bigger, then both the Kia Soul & VW e-Golf are my top picks. If more range for the dollar, then a GM Bolt EV.
Loved seeing that! I totally agree about the cooling being problematic. That’s probably why Tesla has their fancy system that pushes fluid between all the cells. I suppose this is a case of “something is better than nothing”.
dan dietz Tesla has more powerful battery , but in fiat case we have only 24kwt , so this cooling system maybe good for this power
Great job! Nice to see what is inside this neat little car.
Great video! I just bought a 2017 500e and have been driving it for about 3 weeks. It’s an awesome car! It was really interesting to see all of the engineering that went into the battery. I really enjoy all of your videos. I can’t wait to do some of the mods that you have done. Thanks.
FASCINATING! I got a 2017 Fiat 500e in the spring of 2022 and I love my little electric egg! I just drove on snowy roads and it was a champ. I figured it had something to do with the batteries making it heavier than other cars this size, and the weight being low and distributed. When I found your video, now I see that is true!
They are nice cars. Nice design, simple controls with buttons (none of that touch screen crap). Just a bit hefty for the size & no L3 charging holds it back a bit.
Heat only really rises in gas or liquid form. Since the battery is solid I don’t think the orientation of the cooling pad makes a large difference. That being said it could be way more surface area but I think it’s sufficient considering the low power draw off the 500e. Thanks for posting this!
The latest Samsung SDI cells used in the BMW i3 have 120Ah vs the 60Ah the 500e uses, so that's 100% more capacity. Even if you happen to get your hands on a salvage 2019 i3, you would still be short one cell, since the i3 uses 96 cells vs. the 97 the 500e uses. Also those battery frames keep the cells under a lot of tension, they don't come out easily.
The heat only goes up when we are talking about air, only the hot air goes up due to its density. In a solid it doesn't matter, the head just goes everywhere and the cooling panels absorb that heat from the bottom of the packs the same way they would do if they were on top.
Thanks for your time and effort doing these videos. I enjoy seeing the break down.
It’s a compression washer on the nut - like a lock washer, it locks by way of flattening the washer itself between the contact patch of the nut and the bolted surfaces but without scoring the surface as a normal lock washer does when tightened if i’m correct.
Thank you for this as always.
Heat flowing through a heat sink/metal plate will flow equally in either direction. You're confusing convection with conduction.
Excellent information Thanks. 👍
So cool to watch, thanks!!
Guessing at which wire does what does not make for a good video. Please ask someone in the know before guessing. The contactors are driven by the 12v system, that is not the 240v AC inlet - which needs to hit the on-board charger, first, to be turned into DC for the battery pack.
Hey John, Great video! Even after 2 years it’s very useful. I have the same issue as one of the previous viewers. The contactor inside my BDCU (Battery Disconnect Unit) that makes the normal clunk sound is not activating. I followed all the suggestions on the forums (12V battery replacement, HV fuse cycle, AlfaOBD cycle, even disconnecting the humidity sensor in the cabin. What I understand is that the contactor won’t actuate when the individual cell voltage drops below 3v. There is also an occasional dreaded display of 47% battery life (most of the time it’s 0%). I bought the 2013 500e with 49k miles at auction, so I know based on the registration that it sat for at least a year, maybe 2. The fixes I’ve seen for the no clunk, and HV cell voltage below 3v is dropping the battery pack and charging each bank individually to get hv cell voltage above 3v on all batteries before putting everything back. My question to you is; based on your video, is it possible to trace back the 12v relay source source to the contactors (the part that makes the normal clunks, and add the 12v externally, in order to engage the contactor. Any help would be appreciated. I really don’t want to drop the battery pack (remove the rear axial, bleed brakes and battery cooling fluid, and especially jimmy rig several chargers to individually charge the modules for 2 days.
I don't see how that would change anything. The computer would need to see all the sensors present & working for it to do anything. I would hunt down a 400v charger with speeds up to 6.6 kWh, unplug the HV battery (no need to remove it), & run jumpers to the battery that way. If that doesn't work, then: drop the pack, use the same equipment except bypassing the contactors completely. It should just be a battery with a charger connected at that point.
The ideal of dropping the whole pack and charging each individual 5 or 6 cell module would be insane. At that point, best just to take it all apart & reuse or part out the modules (as in the video). That's assuming that they take a charge at all. Might be just a cell or module bringing the whole pack down or the whole thing is damaged.
Try to get a whole "used pack" out of a salvage donor car and swap that in. That would be cheaper and much easier. Just a day's work to do the complete job.
No matter what, your in a bad situation. "Time is money" & I wouldn't waste either.
@@theevolvingworld thanks for the prompt response
@@theevolvingworld I am planning to try and charge the battery while it’s still in the car with a 400v charger. I also have a car where the battery back has been completely discharged and is in limited power mode and not charging. I’ve been told the only way to fix it after trying all the other forum tricks with alfaobd is to drop the pack. This would be amazing if the charger worked without removing the battery. Thanks for your videos and help in the comments!
@@KennyGillis The contactors (essentially HV relays) that are shown at 10:40 would need to be activated by a 12v source. You can verify by doing a voltage check at the HV connectors on the pack or even the 6.6 kW charger circuit next to it as they join together (it will be open, no voltage). The pack may still be good if it has not been fully discharged for a lengthy period of time.
Most likely expect to drop the pack and open it up. The contactors or other related parts of the system in the same area are most likely the culprit. At that point, you should be able to bypass all of that, take a voltage reading, and hook up your 400v charger to charge it up, if needed. You should be able pinpoint the problem and fix it. Then reinstall. Please be extremely careful, 400v can kill you. Best of luck!
@@theevolvingworld Thank you so much for the detailed reply! I'm guessing there is not a way to close the contactors with 12V without removing the battery pack?
I know dropping the battery is a little tougher than a Leaf since you have to remove suspension parts, but I'm excited to give this a go! Thank you!
Well done, very informative! Thx
I’d sure like to know how those prismatic batteries cells are connected inside, I’m wondering if you’d have to disconnect all the top components to pull them out?
Fascinating disassembly. 👍🏼
The 10mm nuts have an integral washer and that washer is not flat. When you tighten the nut the washer flattens out and the pressure of the washer holds it in place. No need for teeth on the washer. These washers are far superior to your standard split washers.
The cooling plate go´s around as I see it :)
this dude is awesome
The interior ambient temperature of the case is kept cool and sucks heat out of the cells through simple conduction and natural convection within the case.
Imagine a Nissan Leaf with no cooling inside it's battery module case. I have a Leaf and the battery cooling sucks, and not heat, just sucks, lol.
Thanks!
Im very interested in the Fiat 500e. Whats your experience in regarding the battery degradation?
He has a video on it
I used to build this lower battery box
The cells are all aluminum cased. Aluminum is a very good heat conductor so having the thermal plate under the cells is just fine.
great vid. I think with some redesign you can get 40+kWh Lifpo4 prismatics in there.
We're back from 28 days in Hawaii. Thanks, it was fun. As better, denser, lighter cells become available cheap... the possibilities are endless.
@@theevolvingworld like seriously a possibility? am considering buying one, just because i like it, but it would be nice if it could be future proof’d, or at least know am not buying a brick after 150k mi.
Considering the importance of the health of the 12v battery, does the monitoring system tell you when it should be replaced (rather than when it's already knocking on death's door like in an ICE car)? Just wondering.
It gives you a warning on the dash, you only have a few days.
@@robertpryor7225 Well I guess that's better than nothing. You'd think they'd be a little more clever, like measuring the voltage before and after it is being charged by the system and watching for a trend of lowering voltage and/or amperage and letting you know that the 12V battery is not working as it should. The guy on this channel replaced it with a lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery, which lasts up to 10 times as long as a lead acid battery. That video is here: th-cam.com/video/X_0lFn9YFNg/w-d-xo.html
I have a 500E with a battery problem. I'm thinking of taking out the battery pack and trying to charge each module separately. I want to put it back in, so I was wondering if you noticed if that could be done easily. The modules in the middle look somewhat awkward to access, but maybe I could use the bus bars to charge the modules. Do you think such a procedure is doable? Someone mentioned somewhere that a Dutch operation were do this.
Just bought a crushed 2017 and I can't get it going the turtle limited power is on..
How many miles are on the car. 4 of the five EV's I've owned had battery degradation at 30,000 miles. 3 first gen leafs and one volt. Luckily I leased all four.
Time to go electric.
Gas and diesel engines are old polluting technology.
Yea go electric and when you charge up do it with fossil fuels. Also when the batteries are produced they pollute nearly 10x as much as you would have if you just drove a gasoline car. I’ve got 2 electric cars but I don’t kid myself into thinking I’m saving the environment.
Regarding the small and large battery sizes - if these are all connected in series, wouldn't you see mismatched capacities for the individual cells? I must be missing something!
Ok, I watched ep. 8 and answered my question. The larger batteries just have more cells in series, but with the same capacity per cell. Great video, super helpful!
Glad you found it useful.
This could not have better timing. I'm having my 500e towed home tomorrow so I strip the batteries. The car has catastrophic front end damage when we were hit by a drunk driver. Broken rt foot should be healed in time for summer dismantling.
Thank goodness you did not sustain any further injuries! The complete 500e teardown series should help you out. The battery is the big ticket easiest to remove item. If you can, grab: all the orange cabling, accelerator pedal, heater, motor, charger, controller/inverter & electric A/C compressor. Maybe the wheels/tires, shocks/springs, brakes/rotors, & taillights. Most everything else is garbage. Hope you recover fully & sue the drunk!
Check Weber auto vids about safety, it could kill you
@@robertpryor7225 got a link? got many results when searched
Hi great video. I have an issue with my BMS. Needs to repair. I cannot find anyone who can rebuild it. any suggestions?
Thanks! Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your BMS. The procedure to get to it is covered in this video. Maybe, track down the used parts on eBay & replace. Frankly, if your HV battery SOH is good, I won't worry about the BMS too much.
You think you could take the batteries and power your home? It would be like having two power walls.
I've always seen it as the best 2nd use of HV batteries out of an higher mileage or crashed EV. The trick is open sourced software along with the hardware for a proper connection to the grid or solar. Or a company needs to develop the software & hardware as a kit without the batteries included. Hopefully, we'll have this option soon!
Someone has used these batteries for solar but waiting to hear back about pics.
Great video! I'm guessing this is the old Fiat500e correct? Any idea if the new pack is still designed by Bosch?
Glad you liked it. It's the first generation model, a factory EV conversion (U.S. model only) compliance car produced 2013.5 - 2019. The second generation is completely different car designed to be an EV from the start. Available only in Europe and is the best selling EV in Europe out selling Tesla.
Ok maybe this might be a mod one too far my liking :)
Hi,
dose enyone know if the 500e of 2023 module use an LTP or NMC chemistry ?
John i build this trike with 8 of the 6 cell packs for 201 v charged. my question is you mention the BMW cell are more amp hour. but are the packs the same L x W x H
How much dors a dealership charge to replace the whole battery?? Labor and parts? Does anyone know ???
But the biggest question I have, and thousands of other potential would be buyers of this model is: What happens to the battery range as the car accumulates more and more miles?
Can I expect for example the same 91 maximum miles range on a full charge for the 2017 500E under ideal conditions, when the used model I buy for $8,000 now with 25,000 miles,
(going market price out of Southern California where there is a huge supply right now ) when the electric car's has say 100,000 miles over the next 4 years?)
Yes, the range will decrease with use. If you keep the battery charged between 10-90%, is the most effective way to preserve the range. So yes, that means 20% less max range, but for several years longer. Please see my video on 500e battery degradation.
John, great vid. I'm helping a friend troubleshoot a '15 he thinking of buying. However quite dead, new 12V, still dead, no contactor noise, is that the battery disconnect unit you speak of? Looks to be accessible only when you take the battery apart or is the actual contactor elsewhere?
A fresh 12v normally fixes everything... if all else is well. The battery disconnect is shown @ 1:20-1:25. It's accessible from inside the car by lifting the rear seat cushion. If there's a short in the system, it would blow out the fuse that's in that unit. I would check that. The Contactors that make the loud "click click" noise is shown @ 10:18-10:48. They can only accessed with the HV battery fully out. There are some little fusible link looking parts that connect at this same area that seem to fail or blow out from misuse . This is based off of how many requests I have gotten for these parts. I only had the two original ones that sold long time back. Hope this helps you.
@@theevolvingworld John, I trust the fuse in the HV disconnect is between the 2 forked terminals, I'll check that soon. Is there any other way to identify that the contactor is the issue or better yet to force it open or closed. I've tried AlfaOBD without success.
I bought four of these modules salvaged from eBay. I want to make two 36v banks for a small sailboat motor. Do you have any recommendations for setting up a bms before I put the two 18v in series?
I got me a 500e and the charging is not working, the code was P0A8D it says PIM module, where is this thing located? just asking, thanks,
The Power Inverter Module (PIM) is located adjacent the HV Motor it controls (See teardown #2).
It takes the DC current from the battery & powers the motor or regen brakes it back the other way.
No nice way to say this. But, it's toast.
Good side of it is, you got some nice parts to be used in converting a cool classic into a cool EV. See my Cappuccino EV & PAO EV projects.
Hey, you wouldn't happen to still have the lower battery pack pan would you? I could use it if you haven't tossed it.
Hello! I have a Fiat 500E that needs a new battery .Fiat is quoting 30k to replace it... I know there's refurbished batteries online for much cheaper. i was wondering if you offer repair services to help me getting the car going again
Ideally you should be getting a complete pack out of a salvage vehicle 2014-2019 with low miles and never completely discharged. I doubt anybody will be rebuilding these packs with out losing money on the labor it takes to do so. Sorry, I don't offer my services other than in the form of videos.
I am following the videos on the Fiat 500e and I give you many compliments.
I wanted to ask you if it is possible to replace the battery pack with a larger one, for example 42 kw or higher.
The cost?
Can you do this job? And at what price?
Thanks
Thanks for compliments. I've answered this question quite a few times already (you must have missed it). The short answer is: it's a waste of time, just buy something else that's newer with proper fast charging included. The best selling EV in Europe is the new Fiat 500 (that says a lot).
Hey man, is there a way to talk to you somewhere? There's not a lot of people doing teardowns of the 500e, I have a wild hair of wanting to try changing the battery modules to extend the range of the 500e, I think it'd be a really fun project.
You can reach me here. I've already stated my thoughts on cell replacements for the 2013-19 FiIAT 500e. But, don't let that stop you. Please document & share when you do. Ciao.
@@theevolvingworld I just replied to your video about manually activating the contactor. I wanted to pick your brain. Hopefully you are still checking these posts. I have one healthy 500e and one that is dead. Hoping to get your advice on the dead one due to battery being discharged for a long time.
How do you plan to charge these cells?
If anyone tries this at home check out safety procedures videos at Weber Auto
Hello, at 10:35 your finger is pointing to a current sensor. Any chance you have that part available for sale? Thx
I sold both of them some time ago.
do you need a smoke tester to test for leaks if you put it back after opening ? i saw a ford battery tear down you needed a kit
Not sure. Not putting it back together. I'm working on using the cell modules & connectors in a completely different layout in a different car.
Hi I have a 2015 fiat 500e that is diagnosed with needing a BPCM replacement and recovery of the High Voltage battery. I am in the Bay Area and am looking for someone who is capable of doing this.
Hi, I have the same issue on my 2013 500e. has anyone reached out to you?
😊 33:02
if I want to add dc charger port ,does I can use high voltage socket from the front of the battery? plz answer me because I want to modify my car to support dc fast charger
I would not add fast charging to the 2013-2019 Fiat 500e. Too much effort for too little gain. The all-new 2021 Fiat 500 has all that and more.
I think there's more complication to it than you think, Weber Auto references the difference on a Chevy Bolt.
Hello, I need a new battery. Where do I buy a new one? 2015 500e.
I'm not sure if Stellantis (formerly FCA) made a whole lotta extra battery packs for the first gen 500e. If you can find a "new" one it will most likely cost more than the car is worth. Best to find a low mileage "used" one and swap it. My teardown videos cover the removal procedure. Installation is basically the same in reverse.
The Fiat 500e returns to the U.S. market later this year as a 2024 (second gen) model. 😃
Do you know is there any temp sensors inside battery pack?
Yes, each battery module has a thermistor.
whats the life span of a battery like this ? and precisely talking about a 2017 500e fiat battery with 29k miles on the mileage ? and price of a new one if thats not to much haha thanks...
First of al,l it's exactly the same pack as this 2015. My video on "500e Battery Degradation" seems to suggest it will be at 50% capacity at around 150,000 miles. Driving & charging habits will be the biggest factor. You could have 2,900 miles & discharge the battery to 0%, leave it for a month, & that would severely damage it or maybe kill it.
In 30 years they will also look back on this time and wonder, what were people thinking driving around with 20 gallons of extremely flammable fluid in the car..
nonsense, or why are people driving around with heavy very bad and flammable battery substances?!
if you used this off grid do you still have to water cool the batteries?
I don't think they use active cooling when using these batteries for solar, lower current flow. I.e Tesla powerwall.
Correct.
Hey John! Just wondering if there’s a way to contact you and pick your brain on a 500e project I’m starting. It may be up your alley. I’m considering doing a chassis swap from a 1989 Nissan Pao to the 500e.
I want to get your thoughts and potential watch outs. Thanks!
Hi, Benjamin. Two things: First, I love the Nissan PAO, in fact I have one in my collection. It's not the one I'm working on presently, but It's scheduled for conversion at a later date. Second, when you say chassis swap I interpret that as taking a PAO body & placing it on to a newer Fiat platform. That would be a massive logistical nightmare. Instead, I would do a simple powertrain swap on the PAO to keep it light and better overall.
If you want, you can leave your e-mail address here & I'll contact you.
The Evolving World that’s great to hear! A fellow Pao owner. I imagine it’s a lot to figure out, but my thought was to essentially remove everything on the Fiat down to nearly the rolling chassis as the wheelbase is exactly the same, and the width is maybe an inch different.
But I would love to hear your thoughts, and recommendations on what you would do. Feel free to email me at ben@onvoltage.com
The Evolving World would love to hear your thoughts still! Thanks John!
The Evolving World I know you’re a busy man, but just wanted to follow up again. Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
I have your information, I'll contact you at a future time. I'm working on my EV conversion project after a 4 month hiatus and I'm determined to finish it uninterrupted ASAP.
I'll add to what I already stated earlier . They are both unibody cars with similar suspensions & an identical wheelbase. But, being a "unibody" is the key word. If it was a "body on frame" car, that would allow all kinds of possibilities.
No insolated gloves or tools?
Pretty interesting breakdown but I'm not terribly impressed with the design of the whole battery pack. IMO, too specific to one vehicle and just not the battery sled idea that most people envision for an EV. It looks expensive to make, build and seems to have limited cooling but the final negative is it's just not that powerful.
Making a more powerful pack with this design concept seems damn near impossible.
Yeah, it's very much done out of a "need to" & not so much a "want to". But, the overall car did manage to come out quite good & has been reliable. It will be interesting to see if the next gen Fiat EV will be a more "EV only" design or just another compliance car conversion.
@@theevolvingworld According to the rumors, the next 500e will be built on a bespoke "electric car" platform, rather than a retrofitted gasser:
It works reliably, not cheap. Not bad for 2014
@@robertpryor7225 2012 actually. It was released in 2012. Mine is a 2013. Amazing to think Bosch already had developed the majority of those components by 2010 (or so).
@@eletruk6028 wow, even more impressive. The upside that people don't mention is you can use many parts from the common Fiat 500.
Can i email on a question i have on a 2015 fiat 500e battery module?
Well, that depends on what kind of question it is.
@@theevolvingworld sorry for going back and forth in between videos the fiat 500e is a 2015 and also want to know if i can charge complete battery package with power inverter and what wattage should i charge at
@@novawagon559 First you will need to determine what the current voltage of the battery pack is. It should be 320-390v. Higher number is greater SOC. You'll need a 400v power supply bench charger. Any speed under 6.6 KWh.
@@theevolvingworld awesome ill update you when i find the faulty battery module and when i get car running again. Thank you for you help it is much appreciated
Can you sell to me your Battery Pack Control Module (BCPM)?
Unfortunately, that has already been sold last year.
Oh! Thank you very much, you are so kind answering my question. Please if you know someone that can sale too me this module, please let me know. Greetings from Mexico.
Nobody will ever buy these parts, nobody buy an electric car beyond warranty knowing that battery or inverter is 5000 and up.....
environmental disaster no way green no way useful