Reassembling Skeleton is a mana sink for your sacrifice deck. Yes things with death triggers are a better target for sacrifice generally, but if you hold mana for removal and don't use it then you can bring back the skelly and sac him a few times before your turn starts.
You can use tutors to get any card from your deck, even fun ones, the issue isn't the mechanic of pulling out a specific card: it's sacrificing fun in exchange for winning. Not playing tutors doesn't keep those players from being any less of a poor sport, it's a fundamental difference of mindset. Exclusively running cards that draw or indirectly draw cuts you off of 90% or more of the strategies in the game since most cards /don't/ draw... Every deck would look the same. More general advice might be to play for value instead of dumping your hand into an incoming board wipe, or have a commander that draws that you can keep recurring, and you can always include more devoted card-draw-cards to supplement your actual gameplan. Being able to stifle aggressive, all-in plays using a board clear is a distinct counterplay strategy, and as the tempo player you need to learn to play around it instead of weighing down your deck with subpar creatures that cycle themselves. Using "infinite" value cards like Reassembling Skeleton is a tradeoff, not intrinsically a mistake. Probably best to avoid using that kind of strategy due to it being very low tempo (and thus a waste of mana), but if you only care about the effect of your sacrificers and not the sacrificees it is the better /value/ play to make. It also means you need less card draw to offset all these extra cards being sent to your graveyard, linking back to point #2. Having cards serve multiple overlapping purposes is the key to decks that feel great, so the advice still stands. Edit: this video is entirely correct in its assessment of what makes certain games a drag to play, though the proposed solutions are not the same conclusions I have drawn. For some people this is very good advice, I just think it skirts the real issues leading to these same symptoms.
Imma say, it heavily depends on how competitive you're playing commander. If you're playing Cedh then tutors are a must have to find exact answers. Which is why the top decks are still Grixis and or 4 colors that includes everything but green. However in a casual table I agree buying tutors are a trap.
i feel this is the lowest common denominator of opinions on tutors. i dont mean that as a direct insult, but more a reason to reevaluate your viewpoint. many new/hyper casual players fall into this pit fall. can a tutor be used to grab a combo piece/win con, yes. but they do not need to, they are often able to be used to find lands/ramp/removal to fix your mana issues or remove an opponents win con. the issue is not tutors, its how you use them. instead of searching up the ring each game, simply dont, or dont run the ring at all. use vamp to find a clutch counterspell/naturalize/kill spell. or use it to find a specific sword in your equipment deck to deal with the current situation. tutors in the deck can be like oil in your car. it helps it run smoothly, even when you need to simply shift gears. again tutors are not the issue, deck construction and playstyle are.
i feel like the issue with tutors is that not a lot of people build toolbox decks so tutors especially generic ones become the easiest ways to find the few cards that you consider miles above the rest or are your win conditions
First, a bit of advice, when you can't word your feedback in a way that doesn't sound offensive, or you need to say honestly, lazy, and ill intended stuff like "I don't mean that as a direct insult" it means your feedback is biased or you didn't took the time to actually think about what you were saying. It creates this immediately poor reception that even if you were well intended, is lost just because of that sentence, so take some time to figure out a way to not sound pedantic when you try and give feedback. What you are describing is a reactionary play, something that's often achievable in longer matches. The issue being adresed here is an inherent problem of tutors, it has nothing to do with deck construction it's the simple fact that tutors enable many hyper efficient win cons. To a degree, many, many decks simply don't have enough or fast enough answers to deal with that level of ramp/speed. So even if you have a tutor to fish an answer, well, sucks to suck, you didn't fish for your answer fast enough. It is a play style issue, and that's what he's addressing he's telling people, not to use tutors because they can suck the fun out of the game. Nothing quite like a fun weekend commander game with friends, only for that one friend to pull up with his hyper ramp tutor fiesta of a desk and force everyone to play their good/competitive decks instead of their fun decks. You can absolutely add a table rule that tutor is not allowed to be used for obnoxious combos to try and address this playstyle issue , but now you need to define what that means, and now we aren't playing, we are having a discussion about homebrew rules, and knowing magic players, that never ends well. Tutors are an issue when you have fun, in a competitive setting by all means reduce variance. But commander, specially casual commander, is a 4 player rng fiesta, and that's like the point, for you to have fun, to make alliances, to break alliances, to pull out unexpected combos, to play out of others blunders, it's about interacting with other players, not to see who can oil their car fast enough that the others can't interact with you.
the video is literally titled deck building traps you should avoid, and is clearly aimed at beginners that fall into the trap of using tutors for combos. Also "just don't get the one ring" is not a solution because why play the card if you arent gonna use its full potential.
I find it strange that so many comments disagree with the video and are trying to defend it with one of these obviously flawed justifications. 1. You should play tutors, just play sub-optimaly. 2. Tutors are required for consistency. 3. Tutors arent the problem, every good card in your deck is the problem. Point 1 I feel is nonsense. The fun of commander is trying to play optimally through the randomness of a singleton format. If you believe in point 1 and you ever win a game of commander, then you are a hypocrite. Point 2 misses the point of both the video and commander. You can absolutely have a consistent deck that doesnt play tutors. Deck build without a single combo in mind and play card draw and more value. Point 3 is baffling. Trying to keep tutors in the game by nerfing every card to not be worth tutoring is completely unnecessary. You can have two card combos in your deck and if you find them without tutors then that is a game of commander worth remembering. Building a deck full of busted cards, but never knowing what is coming off the top is the point of a singleton format. Swingy games in my opinion are more fun as long as they swing in multiple directions. And, even with all its faults, an early sol ring off the top is a way to assign a king to be slain to start the game's storyline early. I am suprised at the amount of people that disagree with the video. I hope that the community of this channel will evolve to not include those that dont truely embrace the social and choatic aspect of commander. They can go play vintage and the rest of us can try silly decks in peace.
Great video as always I don't run tutors or infinites. My playgroups are really chill and we always have fun because everybody has to do their thing in the game Keep up the great work, you voice is appreciated
Tutors are not the problem, If your issue is that they make for unfun play environments then that's not the issue of the card that's the issue of the deck. If you are upset that someone in your playgroup is able to win with a busted combo because they were able to tutor for one of the pieces, that would have been no different than if they just drew the piece that turn. The issue is deck building and the player, if you don't want someone who's able to win by tutoring a combo piece in your pod, tell them not to run a deck that wins with a two-card combo or something lol. Tutors are essential parts of dag building that help with consistency and in my opinion add nothing negative to the game. Not to mention, tons of commanders now are essentially just tutors that you always have access to. What's worse, your opponent paying a mana to actually just get the one card they want, or your opponent drawing 15 cards in one turn and taking up a bunch more time to actually get to the same place? Well made video, but I definitely disagree with you
My least played deck is a Sisay, exactly because the commander is basically a tutor. Eventually you find the optimal cards to take, and all your games play the same.
This video just randomly came across my feed and I loved it! Really good points about thinking about fun first. I am sort of new to commander and I’m always looking for ideas. Thanks!
Ok but there's a reason some folks don't always play things that cantrip in boatloads is that often you're taking a major hit to speed as removal that cantrips or counterspells that cantrip is often more expensive mana wise. so, there's a balancing act here. too much and plenty of decks can just go underneath the stuff you're doing if your deck is too slow. and as for resembling skeleton and friends i wouldn't say they're always worse off than something with an etb or dies effect. they really pop off when your commander is a payoff in a major way and or when you want to loop fodder into outlets for value. For example, a smothering abomination a free sac outlet and a reassembling skeleton means you're now paying at most 2 mana for a card or other effects and can do it over and over. if you're just sacrificing a couple things each turn creatures with etbs or dies effects are much better but reassembling skeleton and similar are so much easier to loop into insurmountable advantage.
I see you point, and kinda agree but at the same time tutors are just a tools like everything else. You don’t need to tutor for the best card, that could be a chance for you to choose different niche card or something that won’t impact game that much, maybe try new strategy or get new card you just put into your deck and never had a chance to play with it😊 Overall good video, I do agree that playing for combo in commander isn’t as fun😅
Disclaimer: I watched every video on this channel and I want to watch more. I also dont play Magic but I am very familiar with card games concepts since I've played a lot of them. I also might be biased because I've watched every video you made in the past 11+ years. Disclaimer over, I thought it was needed so you can value my opinion accordingly I really enjoy this style of video a lot more, it feels a lot more personal, it has more soul. I hope you find what works best for you though!
I’ve only been playing mtg for about 6 or so months and found my home in commander. These cards were what turned me away from standard bc it’s so chock full of dusting turn one combos. Tutors have their place and I’ve got a life gain life drain pet deck and the whole fun of it is to see if it will get to pop. Tutors make it more likely but most players around are likely to shut them down. Play your way others will play theirs
Vamp tutor right out of the gate, yep I knew this was going to be about johnny combo player which was what nearly turned me away from commander entirely. Everyone kept playing these Zur, Kess, Atraxa tutor for 3 turns and do some infinite combo and win. So stupid. Sure, the deck is powerful but the player is weak. Once I found a pod that played group hug, token farms, meme decks, that's where the fun is at. I keep a maxed out CEDH deck too and you are very right about there being only one singular path to victory, it's the same every time because thats the best, most efficient way the deck works. Now, i run a Karlach+Feywild Visitor deck that i think is exactly the type of fun card draw deck you're describing
NOOO NOT MY BOY REASSEMBLING SKELETON ; -; thank you for the new vid Baumi! The deck building videos have all been super helpful and inspiring, I've recently got into making my own decks instead of using ones I found online because of them. Looking forward to the next vid and have a good day!
Yeah the goal is to win the gamr then start again and try to win again… casual commander is trying to make normal competitive people feel bad for having efficient decks built to… u know… WIN a game made to be won
Got some new cards last night and made a deck with lagomos hand of hatred as the commander and this video is making me reconsider it lol. This is a very neat video and I enjoy your take on the matter. I think tutors can be fun as long as your not pulling off some infinite combo or something, maybe as just a couple cards in your deck to ensure your not being dicked over by your topdeck. Especially if your using cheap ones like final parting or gravebreaker lamia. In the end its fair game and if people want to win rather than play they can do so and should find a play group that has similar goals in mind.
EDH is all about making a bunch of tokens, drawing a bunch of cards, stuffing your deck full of "value" engines, and complaining about others doing the same thing. I find the format and community as a whole very stale and annoying. This is why if I'm drawn into playing EDH, I only play quick solitaire combos and/or strong stax.
@dekina1198 I'd say whether one is better than the other is depending on what you're doing with it. If you're only looking for the free fodder bloodghast is obviously better but Reassembling Skeleton is significantly better if you're looking for a nontoken to sac multiple times in a turn or for looping
But does this not encourage a change in mindset and not necessarily a change in what tutors you use? Keep the tutors, but pick different options? Also, yeah, completely agree about card draw, people need more card draw! 💯
I would say that you are complaining that you are in a very competitive environment of commander and you don't wanna play competitive. Just talk with your friends and play casual or rule 0 the use of tutors. Also, lousy video you don't even give a good reason why not using them. Just play cards agains tutors (like leonin arbiter, aven mindcensor, ashiot dream render, strangehold, shadow of doubt, opposition agent, etc) and problem solved.
Reassembling Skeleton is a mana sink for your sacrifice deck. Yes things with death triggers are a better target for sacrifice generally, but if you hold mana for removal and don't use it then you can bring back the skelly and sac him a few times before your turn starts.
You can use tutors to get any card from your deck, even fun ones, the issue isn't the mechanic of pulling out a specific card: it's sacrificing fun in exchange for winning. Not playing tutors doesn't keep those players from being any less of a poor sport, it's a fundamental difference of mindset.
Exclusively running cards that draw or indirectly draw cuts you off of 90% or more of the strategies in the game since most cards /don't/ draw... Every deck would look the same. More general advice might be to play for value instead of dumping your hand into an incoming board wipe, or have a commander that draws that you can keep recurring, and you can always include more devoted card-draw-cards to supplement your actual gameplan. Being able to stifle aggressive, all-in plays using a board clear is a distinct counterplay strategy, and as the tempo player you need to learn to play around it instead of weighing down your deck with subpar creatures that cycle themselves.
Using "infinite" value cards like Reassembling Skeleton is a tradeoff, not intrinsically a mistake. Probably best to avoid using that kind of strategy due to it being very low tempo (and thus a waste of mana), but if you only care about the effect of your sacrificers and not the sacrificees it is the better /value/ play to make. It also means you need less card draw to offset all these extra cards being sent to your graveyard, linking back to point #2. Having cards serve multiple overlapping purposes is the key to decks that feel great, so the advice still stands.
Edit: this video is entirely correct in its assessment of what makes certain games a drag to play, though the proposed solutions are not the same conclusions I have drawn. For some people this is very good advice, I just think it skirts the real issues leading to these same symptoms.
I’m just curious why the other players are poor sports. Where does he say that in the video?
I demonic tutor for a sol ring 9 times out of 10 lol 😅
Imma say, it heavily depends on how competitive you're playing commander. If you're playing Cedh then tutors are a must have to find exact answers. Which is why the top decks are still Grixis and or 4 colors that includes everything but green. However in a casual table I agree buying tutors are a trap.
I just build cedh and casual decks. I don't have any problem with either. No need to self limit as long as you can adjust to situations.
i feel this is the lowest common denominator of opinions on tutors. i dont mean that as a direct insult, but more a reason to reevaluate your viewpoint. many new/hyper casual players fall into this pit fall. can a tutor be used to grab a combo piece/win con, yes. but they do not need to, they are often able to be used to find lands/ramp/removal to fix your mana issues or remove an opponents win con. the issue is not tutors, its how you use them. instead of searching up the ring each game, simply dont, or dont run the ring at all. use vamp to find a clutch counterspell/naturalize/kill spell. or use it to find a specific sword in your equipment deck to deal with the current situation. tutors in the deck can be like oil in your car. it helps it run smoothly, even when you need to simply shift gears. again tutors are not the issue, deck construction and playstyle are.
I fully agree and share the same view about tutors as you do. You also put it into far better words than I could, well done
I don't run tutors because I hate shuffling commander decks 🤷🏻♂️
i feel like the issue with tutors is that not a lot of people build toolbox decks so tutors especially generic ones become the easiest ways to find the few cards that you consider miles above the rest or are your win conditions
First, a bit of advice, when you can't word your feedback in a way that doesn't sound offensive, or you need to say honestly, lazy, and ill intended stuff like "I don't mean that as a direct insult" it means your feedback is biased or you didn't took the time to actually think about what you were saying. It creates this immediately poor reception that even if you were well intended, is lost just because of that sentence, so take some time to figure out a way to not sound pedantic when you try and give feedback.
What you are describing is a reactionary play, something that's often achievable in longer matches. The issue being adresed here is an inherent problem of tutors, it has nothing to do with deck construction it's the simple fact that tutors enable many hyper efficient win cons. To a degree, many, many decks simply don't have enough or fast enough answers to deal with that level of ramp/speed. So even if you have a tutor to fish an answer, well, sucks to suck, you didn't fish for your answer fast enough.
It is a play style issue, and that's what he's addressing he's telling people, not to use tutors because they can suck the fun out of the game. Nothing quite like a fun weekend commander game with friends, only for that one friend to pull up with his hyper ramp tutor fiesta of a desk and force everyone to play their good/competitive decks instead of their fun decks. You can absolutely add a table rule that tutor is not allowed to be used for obnoxious combos to try and address this playstyle issue , but now you need to define what that means, and now we aren't playing, we are having a discussion about homebrew rules, and knowing magic players, that never ends well.
Tutors are an issue when you have fun, in a competitive setting by all means reduce variance. But commander, specially casual commander, is a 4 player rng fiesta, and that's like the point, for you to have fun, to make alliances, to break alliances, to pull out unexpected combos, to play out of others blunders, it's about interacting with other players, not to see who can oil their car fast enough that the others can't interact with you.
the video is literally titled deck building traps you should avoid, and is clearly aimed at beginners that fall into the trap of using tutors for combos. Also "just don't get the one ring" is not a solution because why play the card if you arent gonna use its full potential.
I find it strange that so many comments disagree with the video and are trying to defend it with one of these obviously flawed justifications.
1. You should play tutors, just play sub-optimaly.
2. Tutors are required for consistency.
3. Tutors arent the problem, every good card in your deck is the problem.
Point 1 I feel is nonsense. The fun of commander is trying to play optimally through the randomness of a singleton format. If you believe in point 1 and you ever win a game of commander, then you are a hypocrite.
Point 2 misses the point of both the video and commander. You can absolutely have a consistent deck that doesnt play tutors. Deck build without a single combo in mind and play card draw and more value.
Point 3 is baffling. Trying to keep tutors in the game by nerfing every card to not be worth tutoring is completely unnecessary. You can have two card combos in your deck and if you find them without tutors then that is a game of commander worth remembering. Building a deck full of busted cards, but never knowing what is coming off the top is the point of a singleton format.
Swingy games in my opinion are more fun as long as they swing in multiple directions. And, even with all its faults, an early sol ring off the top is a way to assign a king to be slain to start the game's storyline early.
I am suprised at the amount of people that disagree with the video. I hope that the community of this channel will evolve to not include those that dont truely embrace the social and choatic aspect of commander. They can go play vintage and the rest of us can try silly decks in peace.
I recently added Braids to Mishra, Eminent One. She really is nasty. Definitely recommended!
Great take. As a newer casual player, I look forward to more "Tutor-Less" Spelltable games
Sounds like a man that hasn’t Vamp Tutor’d into Reforge the Soul.
Great video as always
I don't run tutors or infinites. My playgroups are really chill and we always have fun because everybody has to do their thing in the game
Keep up the great work, you voice is appreciated
Tutors are not the problem, If your issue is that they make for unfun play environments then that's not the issue of the card that's the issue of the deck.
If you are upset that someone in your playgroup is able to win with a busted combo because they were able to tutor for one of the pieces, that would have been no different than if they just drew the piece that turn. The issue is deck building and the player, if you don't want someone who's able to win by tutoring a combo piece in your pod, tell them not to run a deck that wins with a two-card combo or something lol. Tutors are essential parts of dag building that help with consistency and in my opinion add nothing negative to the game.
Not to mention, tons of commanders now are essentially just tutors that you always have access to. What's worse, your opponent paying a mana to actually just get the one card they want, or your opponent drawing 15 cards in one turn and taking up a bunch more time to actually get to the same place?
Well made video, but I definitely disagree with you
My least played deck is a Sisay, exactly because the commander is basically a tutor. Eventually you find the optimal cards to take, and all your games play the same.
This video just randomly came across my feed and I loved it! Really good points about thinking about fun first. I am sort of new to commander and I’m always looking for ideas. Thanks!
Ok but there's a reason some folks don't always play things that cantrip in boatloads is that often you're taking a major hit to speed as removal that cantrips or counterspells that cantrip is often more expensive mana wise. so, there's a balancing act here. too much and plenty of decks can just go underneath the stuff you're doing if your deck is too slow. and as for resembling skeleton and friends i wouldn't say they're always worse off than something with an etb or dies effect. they really pop off when your commander is a payoff in a major way and or when you want to loop fodder into outlets for value. For example, a smothering abomination a free sac outlet and a reassembling skeleton means you're now paying at most 2 mana for a card or other effects and can do it over and over. if you're just sacrificing a couple things each turn creatures with etbs or dies effects are much better but reassembling skeleton and similar are so much easier to loop into insurmountable advantage.
Enjoyed this format. Quick, opinionated in a good way to start discussion, and easy even for non Magic grid to digest
I see you point, and kinda agree but at the same time tutors are just a tools like everything else. You don’t need to tutor for the best card, that could be a chance for you to choose different niche card or something that won’t impact game that much, maybe try new strategy or get new card you just put into your deck and never had a chance to play with it😊
Overall good video, I do agree that playing for combo in commander isn’t as fun😅
Disclaimer: I watched every video on this channel and I want to watch more. I also dont play Magic but I am very familiar with card games concepts since I've played a lot of them. I also might be biased because I've watched every video you made in the past 11+ years.
Disclaimer over, I thought it was needed so you can value my opinion accordingly
I really enjoy this style of video a lot more, it feels a lot more personal, it has more soul.
I hope you find what works best for you though!
I would love to see something around flubs the fool. I love the commander but I struggle to build a deck that's reliable.
I’ve only been playing mtg for about 6 or so months and found my home in commander. These cards were what turned me away from standard bc it’s so chock full of dusting turn one combos. Tutors have their place and I’ve got a life gain life drain pet deck and the whole fun of it is to see if it will get to pop. Tutors make it more likely but most players around are likely to shut them down. Play your way others will play theirs
Vamp tutor right out of the gate, yep I knew this was going to be about johnny combo player which was what nearly turned me away from commander entirely. Everyone kept playing these Zur, Kess, Atraxa tutor for 3 turns and do some infinite combo and win. So stupid. Sure, the deck is powerful but the player is weak. Once I found a pod that played group hug, token farms, meme decks, that's where the fun is at. I keep a maxed out CEDH deck too and you are very right about there being only one singular path to victory, it's the same every time because thats the best, most efficient way the deck works. Now, i run a Karlach+Feywild Visitor deck that i think is exactly the type of fun card draw deck you're describing
My first and only commander deck is that casualty commander anhelo. The sacrificing tip is useful gonna try and employ that for upgrades!
NOOO
NOT MY BOY REASSEMBLING SKELETON ; -;
thank you for the new vid Baumi! The deck building videos have all been super helpful and inspiring, I've recently got into making my own decks instead of using ones I found online because of them. Looking forward to the next vid and have a good day!
hate tutors/ love reasembling skeleton
Best of advice I have seen in 2024🎉🎉
Nice video.
Yeah the goal is to win the gamr then start again and try to win again… casual commander is trying to make normal competitive people feel bad for having efficient decks built to… u know… WIN a game made to be won
nice
Got some new cards last night and made a deck with lagomos hand of hatred as the commander and this video is making me reconsider it lol. This is a very neat video and I enjoy your take on the matter. I think tutors can be fun as long as your not pulling off some infinite combo or something, maybe as just a couple cards in your deck to ensure your not being dicked over by your topdeck. Especially if your using cheap ones like final parting or gravebreaker lamia. In the end its fair game and if people want to win rather than play they can do so and should find a play group that has similar goals in mind.
EDH is all about making a bunch of tokens, drawing a bunch of cards, stuffing your deck full of "value" engines, and complaining about others doing the same thing. I find the format and community as a whole very stale and annoying. This is why if I'm drawn into playing EDH, I only play quick solitaire combos and/or strong stax.
bloodghast is so much better then the skeleton, because it comes back for free!
@dekina1198 I'd say whether one is better than the other is depending on what you're doing with it. If you're only looking for the free fodder bloodghast is obviously better but Reassembling Skeleton is significantly better if you're looking for a nontoken to sac multiple times in a turn or for looping
But does this not encourage a change in mindset and not necessarily a change in what tutors you use?
Keep the tutors, but pick different options?
Also, yeah, completely agree about card draw, people need more card draw! 💯
Hype
I would say that you are complaining that you are in a very competitive environment of commander and you don't wanna play competitive. Just talk with your friends and play casual or rule 0 the use of tutors. Also, lousy video you don't even give a good reason why not using them. Just play cards agains tutors (like leonin arbiter, aven mindcensor, ashiot dream render, strangehold, shadow of doubt, opposition agent, etc) and problem solved.