Thanks for posting this! I pinned this because of all the good info. I'm not sure why they decied to put miniscule things like Stingray's turbo drain amount in the patch notes, yet something like Fox's exclusive barrier damage reduction they didn't.
Also on the note of misinformation: All vehicles saw a decrease in the amount of bounds damage they take, with Fox and Ray receiving a relative nerf as falcon and goose damage were decreased much more Fox: 72>64, 11.12% decrease Falcon: 44>36, 18.2% decrease Ray: 44>40, 9.1% decrease Goose: 40>32, 20% decrease Here is that breakdown Recovery rates were also unchanged Stingray received a dashpad BUFF, not a nerf All values were datamined and are publically available on twitter and some fzero discords
can someone pin this comment? if it's true, the super secret buff chapter of the video should be removed because it misleads viewers to believe the damage rail reduction is exclusive to the fox when it is not. Twitter links would help too.
The removal of dry boosting hurts minmax players more than you think. Fox on mute city was untouchable if it used all of its boost instead of the more conservative method of only boosting 5 times. After the update I was able to keep up with and ko a player that was using his whole meter while I only boosted 5 times. I am quite happy with this update overall, especially with the changes to Falcon.
I agree that it will have a decent effect; however, two things: 1) I felt it was kinda beyond the scope of this video, and 2) I'm going to look closer at this when I do a video of the micro-details of the boost system. During my research for this video, I discovered that not all boosts use the same amount of HP from the power bar! I need to look at that more closely, to see which boosts are more valuable than others, etc. But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!
I think Fox's HP buff is to help weaker players use it. Let's face it, elite players are hardly likely to crash into barriers constantly whereas weaker players struggle with its fragility when trying to excel with it. It's likely all the changes revolve around helping the average player get more out of all the vehicles instead of sticking to one or two. Too often these changes are critiqued in the mind of the effect on an elite player, not on the general player base.
7:53 I've got to disagree with you when you say the Fox hp buff was 'wholely unnecessary' - the increase of energy use for boosts was a necessary change & along with the Falcon buff means that Foxes are much less likely to be able to front run a race from beginning to end (in competitive lobbies at least) and will be hit by other cars a whole lot more. Without a HP buff, Foxes would have been swallowed up by the crowd and crash out way too much. Sure, there may be an argument that the buff might be a bit much, and only time will tell there, but I'd say at least some was entirely necessary to make the rebalancing work as a whole.
It may just be due to my increasingly aggressive gameplay, but since dry boosting became no longer a thing, my average KO count per race has increased significantly. It's even more satisfying to punish those who overextend themselves... not that that's to say I also haven't been punished for the same, but such is the life of an aggressive Goose!
Holy shit ive been a blu falcan main for the whole series of F Zero didn't really expect for the Blue falcon to get a buff it was already a good machine if anything I expected the StingRay to get buff and the whole thing with the boost pads yeah with the Blue falcon it seems like it's easier to get in front when there's a bunch of boost pads in the beginning but for the fox's i see them struggling to stay at first now mind you some of them are still winning first here and there but not as much now lol also stingrays and wild gooses are always around me now lol let's see what the future holds for these machines and for the mirror cups
Another great review! I have 8h of gameplay, Level 32, A+ rank, and just ONE win with Foxx in Mute City. I was hopeful about this update to make all cars even to have fun and get a chance to win with all 4 cars. Big fan of racing games, not a pro player, but consider myself as a really far from average. Still believe in Nintendo programmers to keep F-Zero 99 alive and interesting...
I think not being able to dry boost is far worse than you're imagining for golden fox. on mute City, I used to dry boost as soon as possible on lap one and it would shave an extra second off my lap time compared to now. - KO ADDICT
The HP buff reinforces their intended feeling for the fox, which is to start the lap at nearly full health. and yet we still see Fox's crashing in the latter half of any lap
Dry boosting was always ridiculous in my mind, and completely illogical. The HP buff is likely to help weaker players use Fox. Elite players are hardly likely to crash often. Reducing fragility will benefit the majority player base. It could also be a minor offset for elite players to removing dry boosting.
So the miss translation on the Stingray was a double miss translation? Instead of nerfed or buffed it got nothing? Because Nintendo did miss translate the Stingray's boost cost it's suppose to be lower.
The actual power use of the boosts may have changed slightly - in the process of researching for this video, I found out that boosts can cost different amounts at different times.... I have to play around with it more to determine what the variable is. Anyway... even if there was a chance to the average cost, it's not big enough to change how many boosts you get per power bar.
@@heyniles " I found out that boosts can cost different amounts at different times..." Really? XD As a Stingray driver who now thinks that it has become the worst machine, I hope you find out in which specific situations it costs less to use the boost to try to optimize my driving a little. XD
@@WolfAndRavenFZ Yeah, it was strange... when trying to find out exactly how much power a boost used, I noticed that the first boost from a full power bar uses less than the next one! I'm already planning to do a hyper detailed pick apart of the boost system to see what this is about (why the costs change, at what points do they change, which boosts are more valuable than others, etc.) It might take some time to put together, but I think it's really interesting!
can you make a side by side video for the dash pad top speed notes you made at 4:00? would be great to see. i'm surprised they are different, or not sure if maybe you accidentally got a bad screencap of the odometer? if i recall some dash plates give different boosting values
I'm working on something similar for the update to my vehicle analysis video - I'm looking at possible effects from different tracks, race placement, etc. I will also try to include a visual, if it fits in with the presentation. 🙂
@@heyniles hey that all sounds very interesting. One thing I vaguely noticed is bumper patterns might spawn in a slightly easier way when your gp placement is worse, but I haven't labbed it yet. But it might be relevant to race placement?
@@zentember that is most likely due to race placement - if you are not with the front runner group, other racers will often collide with and clear the bumpers (or the bumpers will self destruct after some time).
@@zentember bumper patterns are normalized and are entirely set by the 1st car in a race If you are frontrunning, the bumper pattern will be exactly identical to all other times you frontrun If you need to see these patterns, create a private prix and test them yourself. Bumpers appear in private modes but not in practice. Hope that helps
@@pixelatedsethtube1271 it was kinda fun boosting like crazy until the almost inevitable crash out :v Guessing Golden Fox was able to pull the trick better than the rest :/ I mean I still can do it but these nerfs... xD
Less than 2 minutes in, already disagree with your analysis. Those all vehicle changes are big changes. Dry boosting massively effects the meta, for Fox mains. Nearly every one who mains Fox and streams has a video or 2 of them dry boosting to safety, instead of crashing out. And taking less damage means a lot to Stingray racers, as it gives them more opportunities for boosting, instead of playing it safe because 3 boosts uses up all their health. Taking random damage during a lap lowers it to 2.
I probably should have said that the all machines changes don't factor into the buff/nerf discussion "as much." I thought it was fairly clear, but apparently I needed to be more specific.
@@heyniles he's saying they factor into it majorly because even though dry boost was taken from every machine, only 1 of those machines was really using it to turn an advantage for themselves Golden Fox was using dry boost strats ever since week 1 to create larger gaps between laps for themselves on Mute City, and many of these fox players also used dryboost on big blue as well This would allow them to basically win the race without competition Removal of this dryboost technique has made it a lot easier for goose, falcon, and Ray to win on Mute City and Big Blue
have u know nintendo didn't know just spoil mirror port town 2 in the advice at the part of the magnet (remeber put a short called nintendo spoil a mirror track)
Why have such weird patch notes for things that are and aren't there? Because Nintendo, duh. They do what they want. Always have, always will, regardless of how much sense it makes.
I didnt know there was a balance patch. Yesterday i got mad cause a Blue Falcon beat my Fox on Death Wind II when i had the lead and didnt make any mistakes. While he was clearly a good driver i thought he was cheating cause there was no way i lose to a Falcon 😂 I think i'm gonna give Falcon a try now cause aint playing low tiers 🤣
This video is filled with factual errors. Do you even play the game or did you just look at the data? Fox was nerfed big time, into the ground. Dry boosting was a key part of driving the fox for almost every course. It used to be the only vehicle that you could win with sheer skill and willpower alone. Now, fox has to rely on luck like every other vehicle. You have to hope you get a KO or hope enough other drivers enter the race so you'll get a skyway. Overall I HATE the changes in this patch. The game already takes so long to get good at. I devoted hundreds of hours to practicing fox, and still I was only barely good enough some of the time to win. Now, there is literally no downside to playing Falcon, which is so stupid because it has by far the easiest handling, making red, grey, and blue bumpers almost a non-issue. Falcon is supposed to the the BEGINNER CAR - easy to drive but not viable against skilled drivers in one the other 3 cars. Incredibly stupid move by Nintendo to mess with a game that didn't need any balance changes. The day before the patch, I was noticing that the top 5 finishers in almost every race were STILL almost evenly split among all 4 cars. Now, you're lucky to see more than 1 fox in the top 15.
I'm not surprised by your anger at the Fox buff; it might be why Nintendo resisted making any changes for so long. Question: what factual errors did you note? I would like to be sure to not repeat them in the vehicle profile video I'm working on updating.
@@heyniles They have been mentioned elsewhere. 1. Stringray was buffed, not nerfed. It was a mistranslation. 2. Dry boosting was a nerf to fox specifically. 3. All vehicles got the same HP/damage resistance buff, not just fox.
@@kcottone The numbers don't show this, though. The survival time shows that Fox is more durable now than pre-update, and the other vehicles aren't. I was surprised as well, but you can't argue with the numbers.
@@heyniles You need to run your tests again, because the numbers you're looking at are wrong. All 4 cars got their HP buffed the exact same amount. That brings up another good point - the HP buffs were a direct nerf to Goose (another thing you didn't mention). Fewer smoking cars means fewer opportunities for Goose to get a KO. The extra spins have NOT made up for this nerf in my opinion. Goose was my second favorite car pre-patch and now it ALSO feels like garbage.
@@kcottone I actually did mention this when I talked about the spin attack cooldown (the changes in HP "dulls the buff"). I appreciate your opinions and feedback.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W2D5 | Fall | พลาดวันนี้ จะต้องเสียใจ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A5-Cuo12p6A/mqdefault.jpg)
There were translation mistakes in the English patch notes. Stingray was theoretically buffed. Actual parameters:
WILD GOOSE
MaxSpeedBoostPad: 3328 -> 3392 (1.9%)
SpinAttackRefreshTime: 300 frames -> 240 (-20%)
CarBoundsDamage: 40 -> 32 (-20%)
CarCrashDamage: 60 -> 54 (-10%)
TurboCarCrashDamage: 60 -> 54 (-10%)
GOLDEN FOX
PowerDownSensitivity: 2 -> 3 (50%)
TurboDrainAmount: 37 -> 39 (5.4%)
CarBarrierDamage: 8 -> 7 (-12.5%)
CarBoundsDamage: 72 -> 64 (-11.1%)
CarCrashDamage: 88 -> 80 (-9.1%)
TurboCarCrashDamage: 72 -> 64 (-11.1%)
BLUE FALCON
MaxSpeedBoostPad: 3584 -> 3680 (2.7%)
MaxSpeedTurbo: 2432 -> 2480 (2%)
CarBoundsDamage: 44 -> 36 (-18.2%)
CarCrashDamage: 66 -> 60 (-9.1%)
TurboCarCrashDamage: 66 -> 60 (-9.1%)
FIRE STINGRAY
TurboDrainAmount: 47 -> 46 (-2.1%)
CarBoundsDamage: 44 -> 40 (-9.1%)
CarCrashDamage: 66 -> 60 (-9.1%) TurboCarCrashDamage: 66 -> 60 (-9.1%)
Some of your results are interesting though. As a goose player I've not been impressed by this update even though it should have been a notable help.
Thanks for posting this! I pinned this because of all the good info. I'm not sure why they decied to put miniscule things like Stingray's turbo drain amount in the patch notes, yet something like Fox's exclusive barrier damage reduction they didn't.
Seems Nintendo won't let the Stingray forget its original sin of being the best vehicle in F-Zero SNES (and the reigning champ of 99's Classic mode).
So they know about the struggles of classic mode huh
Also on the note of misinformation:
All vehicles saw a decrease in the amount of bounds damage they take, with Fox and Ray receiving a relative nerf as falcon and goose damage were decreased much more
Fox: 72>64, 11.12% decrease
Falcon: 44>36, 18.2% decrease
Ray: 44>40, 9.1% decrease
Goose: 40>32, 20% decrease
Here is that breakdown
Recovery rates were also unchanged
Stingray received a dashpad BUFF, not a nerf
All values were datamined and are publically available on twitter and some fzero discords
can someone pin this comment? if it's true, the super secret buff chapter of the video should be removed because it misleads viewers to believe the damage rail reduction is exclusive to the fox when it is not. Twitter links would help too.
That makes alot more sense.
As a stubborn Blue Falcon main: these buffs just might be what convince me to get back in the game. We'll see.
Captain Falcon after hearing his vehicle got buffed: YES!!!
Ditch the Stingray? NEVER!
The removal of dry boosting hurts minmax players more than you think. Fox on mute city was untouchable if it used all of its boost instead of the more conservative method of only boosting 5 times. After the update I was able to keep up with and ko a player that was using his whole meter while I only boosted 5 times. I am quite happy with this update overall, especially with the changes to Falcon.
I agree that it will have a decent effect; however, two things:
1) I felt it was kinda beyond the scope of this video, and
2) I'm going to look closer at this when I do a video of the micro-details of the boost system.
During my research for this video, I discovered that not all boosts use the same amount of HP from the power bar! I need to look at that more closely, to see which boosts are more valuable than others, etc.
But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!
As a Falcon/Fox main, I can now enjoy them equally 🤗
This helps explain why I now sometimes win as Blue Falcon despite being a casual player who mains Blue Falcon. Thank you for this video!
No problem! I'm close to putting out an update to the vehicle profile video, that should be ready soon.
I think Fox's HP buff is to help weaker players use it. Let's face it, elite players are hardly likely to crash into barriers constantly whereas weaker players struggle with its fragility when trying to excel with it. It's likely all the changes revolve around helping the average player get more out of all the vehicles instead of sticking to one or two. Too often these changes are critiqued in the mind of the effect on an elite player, not on the general player base.
7:53 I've got to disagree with you when you say the Fox hp buff was 'wholely unnecessary' - the increase of energy use for boosts was a necessary change & along with the Falcon buff means that Foxes are much less likely to be able to front run a race from beginning to end (in competitive lobbies at least) and will be hit by other cars a whole lot more. Without a HP buff, Foxes would have been swallowed up by the crowd and crash out way too much. Sure, there may be an argument that the buff might be a bit much, and only time will tell there, but I'd say at least some was entirely necessary to make the rebalancing work as a whole.
4:50 While, Fire🔥Stingray: 🙈gets 🙊NOTHING you LOSE🙉! Good🖕🏾Day, sir!
I had to do it, lol
I'm just going to buff my knowledge of the tracks to get better. Appreciate the info!
It may just be due to my increasingly aggressive gameplay, but since dry boosting became no longer a thing, my average KO count per race has increased significantly. It's even more satisfying to punish those who overextend themselves... not that that's to say I also haven't been punished for the same, but such is the life of an aggressive Goose!
Big fan of these data-driven breakdowns. Channel deserves many more subscribers (and I'm sure they'll come!).
Thanks! I really do enjoy making them, so it works out great!
Incredible video, very much needed update and machine changes, falcon mains rise
Holy shit ive been a blu falcan main for the whole series of F Zero didn't really expect for the Blue falcon to get a buff it was already a good machine if anything I expected the StingRay to get buff and the whole thing with the boost pads yeah with the Blue falcon it seems like it's easier to get in front when there's a bunch of boost pads in the beginning but for the fox's i see them struggling to stay at first now mind you some of them are still winning first here and there but not as much now lol also stingrays and wild gooses are always around me now lol let's see what the future holds for these machines and for the mirror cups
Stingray top speed should be 500kmh, boost mechanics should go back to one per lap. 😉
They NERFED the stingray?! That’s crap. If anything it needed help.
Another great review! I have 8h of gameplay, Level 32, A+ rank, and just ONE win with Foxx in Mute City. I was hopeful about this update to make all cars even to have fun and get a chance to win with all 4 cars. Big fan of racing games, not a pro player, but consider myself as a really far from average. Still believe in Nintendo programmers to keep F-Zero 99 alive and interesting...
Hey, an update is an update!
I'm level 89, rank S17, played 105 hours, and still no wins. 😂 Plenty of second places, though! 🎉😂
I think not being able to dry boost is far worse than you're imagining for golden fox. on mute City, I used to dry boost as soon as possible on lap one and it would shave an extra second off my lap time compared to now. - KO ADDICT
The HP buff reinforces their intended feeling for the fox, which is to start the lap at nearly full health. and yet we still see Fox's crashing in the latter half of any lap
Dry boosting was always ridiculous in my mind, and completely illogical.
The HP buff is likely to help weaker players use Fox. Elite players are hardly likely to crash often. Reducing fragility will benefit the majority player base. It could also be a minor offset for elite players to removing dry boosting.
So the miss translation on the Stingray was a double miss translation? Instead of nerfed or buffed it got nothing?
Because Nintendo did miss translate the Stingray's boost cost it's suppose to be lower.
The actual power use of the boosts may have changed slightly - in the process of researching for this video, I found out that boosts can cost different amounts at different times.... I have to play around with it more to determine what the variable is.
Anyway... even if there was a chance to the average cost, it's not big enough to change how many boosts you get per power bar.
@@heyniles " I found out that boosts can cost different amounts at different times..."
Really? XD
As a Stingray driver who now thinks that it has become the worst machine, I hope you find out in which specific situations it costs less to use the boost to try to optimize my driving a little. XD
@@WolfAndRavenFZ Yeah, it was strange... when trying to find out exactly how much power a boost used, I noticed that the first boost from a full power bar uses less than the next one!
I'm already planning to do a hyper detailed pick apart of the boost system to see what this is about (why the costs change, at what points do they change, which boosts are more valuable than others, etc.)
It might take some time to put together, but I think it's really interesting!
can you make a side by side video for the dash pad top speed notes you made at 4:00? would be great to see. i'm surprised they are different, or not sure if maybe you accidentally got a bad screencap of the odometer? if i recall some dash plates give different boosting values
I'm working on something similar for the update to my vehicle analysis video - I'm looking at possible effects from different tracks, race placement, etc. I will also try to include a visual, if it fits in with the presentation. 🙂
@@heyniles hey that all sounds very interesting. One thing I vaguely noticed is bumper patterns might spawn in a slightly easier way when your gp placement is worse, but I haven't labbed it yet. But it might be relevant to race placement?
@@zentember that is most likely due to race placement - if you are not with the front runner group, other racers will often collide with and clear the bumpers (or the bumpers will self destruct after some time).
@@zentember bumper patterns are normalized and are entirely set by the 1st car in a race
If you are frontrunning, the bumper pattern will be exactly identical to all other times you frontrun
If you need to see these patterns, create a private prix and test them yourself. Bumpers appear in private modes but not in practice.
Hope that helps
Great video, now i understand the new felling of the game.
Time to use Blue Falcon again
So, Goose and Stingray got done dirty?
That's BS. Boost can no longer be used continuously without power :(
It was one of my fav features.
If something seems like an exploit better prep for it to be fixed eventually
@@pixelatedsethtube1271 it was kinda fun boosting like crazy until the almost inevitable crash out :v
Guessing Golden Fox was able to pull the trick better than the rest :/
I mean I still can do it but these nerfs... xD
Less than 2 minutes in, already disagree with your analysis. Those all vehicle changes are big changes. Dry boosting massively effects the meta, for Fox mains. Nearly every one who mains Fox and streams has a video or 2 of them dry boosting to safety, instead of crashing out. And taking less damage means a lot to Stingray racers, as it gives them more opportunities for boosting, instead of playing it safe because 3 boosts uses up all their health. Taking random damage during a lap lowers it to 2.
I probably should have said that the all machines changes don't factor into the buff/nerf discussion "as much." I thought it was fairly clear, but apparently I needed to be more specific.
@@heyniles he's saying they factor into it majorly because even though dry boost was taken from every machine, only 1 of those machines was really using it to turn an advantage for themselves
Golden Fox was using dry boost strats ever since week 1 to create larger gaps between laps for themselves on Mute City, and many of these fox players also used dryboost on big blue as well
This would allow them to basically win the race without competition
Removal of this dryboost technique has made it a lot easier for goose, falcon, and Ray to win on Mute City and Big Blue
have u know nintendo didn't know just spoil mirror port town 2 in the advice at the part of the magnet (remeber put a short called nintendo spoil a mirror track)
Very good catch!
Why have such weird patch notes for things that are and aren't there? Because Nintendo, duh. They do what they want. Always have, always will, regardless of how much sense it makes.
I'm a Stingray main 😐
I didnt know there was a balance patch. Yesterday i got mad cause a Blue Falcon beat my Fox on Death Wind II when i had the lead and didnt make any mistakes. While he was clearly a good driver i thought he was cheating cause there was no way i lose to a Falcon 😂
I think i'm gonna give Falcon a try now cause aint playing low tiers 🤣
It's pretty new, so you didn't miss much.
But yeah, but buffs for Falcon
This video is filled with factual errors. Do you even play the game or did you just look at the data? Fox was nerfed big time, into the ground. Dry boosting was a key part of driving the fox for almost every course. It used to be the only vehicle that you could win with sheer skill and willpower alone. Now, fox has to rely on luck like every other vehicle. You have to hope you get a KO or hope enough other drivers enter the race so you'll get a skyway. Overall I HATE the changes in this patch. The game already takes so long to get good at. I devoted hundreds of hours to practicing fox, and still I was only barely good enough some of the time to win. Now, there is literally no downside to playing Falcon, which is so stupid because it has by far the easiest handling, making red, grey, and blue bumpers almost a non-issue. Falcon is supposed to the the BEGINNER CAR - easy to drive but not viable against skilled drivers in one the other 3 cars. Incredibly stupid move by Nintendo to mess with a game that didn't need any balance changes. The day before the patch, I was noticing that the top 5 finishers in almost every race were STILL almost evenly split among all 4 cars. Now, you're lucky to see more than 1 fox in the top 15.
I'm not surprised by your anger at the Fox buff; it might be why Nintendo resisted making any changes for so long.
Question: what factual errors did you note? I would like to be sure to not repeat them in the vehicle profile video I'm working on updating.
@@heyniles They have been mentioned elsewhere. 1. Stringray was buffed, not nerfed. It was a mistranslation. 2. Dry boosting was a nerf to fox specifically. 3. All vehicles got the same HP/damage resistance buff, not just fox.
@@kcottone The numbers don't show this, though. The survival time shows that Fox is more durable now than pre-update, and the other vehicles aren't. I was surprised as well, but you can't argue with the numbers.
@@heyniles You need to run your tests again, because the numbers you're looking at are wrong. All 4 cars got their HP buffed the exact same amount. That brings up another good point - the HP buffs were a direct nerf to Goose (another thing you didn't mention). Fewer smoking cars means fewer opportunities for Goose to get a KO. The extra spins have NOT made up for this nerf in my opinion. Goose was my second favorite car pre-patch and now it ALSO feels like garbage.
@@kcottone I actually did mention this when I talked about the spin attack cooldown (the changes in HP "dulls the buff").
I appreciate your opinions and feedback.
I've been seeing more falcon and goose wins now. So I think this was a good change in update.