Turks - Through the Ages (1999 vs 2022)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2022
- Part six of a mini-series looking back at the changes made to the original civilizations in Age of Kings. The focus this time is on Turks.
0:28 Turk bonuses in 1999
1:50 Janissary initial design
3:00 Janissary hat controversy
3:55 Japan sea controversy
4:25 Conquerors expansion changes
6:20 AoE2 HD expansions
7:30 Definitive Edition
7:50 Conclusion and stats
___________________________________________________________
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Background music from Epidemic Sound: www.epidemicsound.com
Game: Age of Empires II Definitive Edition - เกม
Gosh, seeing the icon for the hand cannoneer tech was a hit of nostalgia I didn't expect.
ikr. the og tech tree card that came in the box gives the same feels!
As an OG AoK player, I was like "there was a tech like this?" Then I saw the icon for bombard cannon and it really hit me.
Same
Ikr
Only in AOK!
2:49 I remember as a kid seeing ingame cinematic (I think it was one for starting William Wallace tutorial campaign) showing Jannisaries having those caps on their heads and yet in game they didn't have those! I was so confused.
Wow I remember it too. I always wondered why I couldn't find them in game. 🛠️
Same, I tried to find them in scenario editor to no avail
Removing the hats was a really stupid thing because the hats are what make them identifiable as Janissaries
People are way too scared of offending someone these days.
"Uh oh, we're worried that someone who doesn't have a good grasp on history and sees Janisarries might think they're clan members." What? Why are you afraid of offending an ignorant person? Just call them ignorant of history and move on. Don't let stupid people guide your decision making.
@@dougler500 Exactly. Long past time we hold offended people responsible for their own offense taken and not pander to their immature sensibilities. I'm tired of the whole damn world having to walk on eggshells just so stupid people can have an emotionally padded existence. Geeze, that sounds harsh, but basically people need to get over themselves.
@@dougler500 ok, guy who gets mad at people joking about white people
@@jeffersonclippership2588 what? What does Janissaries snd their hats have to do with white people?
@@dougler500 "these days"
literally two decades ago
The Janissaries were actually more comparable to Samurai units. They were proficient with Spears, Halberds, Axes, Swords, Maces, Bows and that included gunpowder much later on.
Which is no surprise since they were basically trained in warfare from childhood.
Yeah this is completely true but I haven’t even ever seen a modern game take that route
Mr. Spirit, you had forgotten about a significant change regarding Artilerry. It's stone cost has been replaced with a wood cost, which means Turks no longer need to sacrifice half a castle or 3 BBTs to get their extra-range BBCs.
Very important point. If vague memory serves correctly, the tower upgrade techs used to cost stone as well. I think the change came around the same time, as having all these techs cost stone was probably seen as costing too much of such a finite and valuable resource that like you said is so vital for building defenses like castles. I think Murder Holes is the only tech left that costs stone.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 It wasn't just the tower upgrades. Masonry, Architecture and Treadmill Crane used to cost stone aswell (in The Conquerors, patch 1.0).
Was teh same for fortified wall and the tower upgrades, but Im actaully not sure if hoardings used to cost stone as well.
Hoardings did cost stone in The Conquerors patch 1.0. Patched out at the same time as Masonry, Architecture and Treadmill Crane's stone cost iirc.
As of now, it feels like Dark to Castle Age you're expected to play like your the Seljuks, while Imperial adds Ottoman Empire stuff
it's a mix; you still got janissaries in castle age
Very gold relying still. A fan though.
I can confirm that it was in a public Q&A on the official website for years that "someone at Microsoft thought the hat looked like a ~clan hood." The primary source must have been scrubbed but the wiki is accurate to my memory.
Tbf, sometimes in creative projects you realize there is no way of putting something in without it looking wrong. In this case the combination of small characters and an isometric perspective really constrain what you can do with the hats.
@@WhitecrocBut this is seems too much of a wide ban by association. Is all white hats even remotely resembling cone ones now forbidden because of those racist guys of hundred years ago? Third Reich existence not banned grey uniform from the media (just make it into hint of bad guys, not even guaranteed), despite it being more recent and horrible thing. Its absolutely logical to ban symbols of monstrous ideologies, groups and regimes, but entire types of clothing and all that resemble it is sounds like overkill. But i guess ~clan guys just too much of a cultural scar for USA, thats why.
0:27 that moment when you know opening is about to hit...
And then it doesn't.
sadge. I want the opening on all Spirit of the Law videos!
I was convinced that the in game janissaries always had those hats in the AoK days but I guess it was just the icon on the civ cheat sheet handout. I looked at that thing religiously when playing as a kid and must have burned the image of capped janissaries into my memory.
I'm right there with you
I think they should bring the hats back for Janissaries. It was the wish of the original artists that they have hats, so this is the way it should be and you should not mess with what artists intended to do.
In a way i like how they look without hats because its more noticeable that they are of Slav origin (Janissaries are consist of captured/bought on slave markets Christian boys that are rised as fanatical elite warriors of the Turk state that dont have any ties other than with each other and their master, because their original families are far and maybe dead) but with hats its more historically accurate
Early jannissary used bows and melee weapons but of course aoe made these versions famous
That would have been really cool to have the jannys upgrade from archer units to gunpowder units with the elite upgrade.
wish we had those economic buffs in real life as well, considering our current economy lol
Turkey literally trades with everybody, shakes hands with both US, EU, Russia and China , Russia pretty much gets most of its imports through Turkey now…
Where you guys throwing all the moolah?!
lol
@@MrVlad12340 I'm worried explaining that would make me end up in jail, but only thing I can say is fear corruption and islamists
@@viledagame6610 I feel for you man. Extremists driven by convictions can ruin societies. It's like they all have a Teutonic resistance to the voice of reason 😅
I am not Turkish, I have no Turkish ancestry in me, I don't even like coffee :P
But my heart aches for the state of things in Turkey. I have a couple of friends from there, and between my love of the Turks in AoK when it came out, to the incredible history of Anatolia over the millennia, the food my friends exposed me to, and what is really a fascinating language - I really hope things prosper again for you.
I'd love to visit some day!
give Janies the hat back
True
There's actually a mod for it. It basically gives the janissaries the royal janissaries model.
I know you said that this series would only be for the original Age of Kings civs, but it’s been excellent, and I’d love to see a similar series or expansion (heh) for the Conquerors civs, too! Do you think it could be in the cards?
Pretty optimistic they will be once AoK is done. They're closer to the OGs than to any other expansion and thus had enough time to change almost as much as the AoK civs did.
Just got back into AOE, last one I played was conquerors. The game has changed so much.
welcome back :)
Welcome back.
Sir welcome back to the best and most wholesome gaming community on the net
Thanks, Spirit of the Law. I'd love to see an updated civ overview for the Turks, since the one you have is the oldest one on the channel! It's really outdated now.
Rewatching a few civ reviews and many are a bit outdated. Still good, but the bonuses and perceptions of many of the civs are quite different now. Indians don’t even exist anymore.
I waited so long for this. And it ended in just 10 minutes…
Great video and series. Missing the intro music though 😇
It should be required on all his videos.
Finally finally finally......
But I'm at work now, gotta wait till I'm home then enjoy watching this video and then rewatch and then rewatch again and then play some more DE until morning....
Love your work....
I’d love to see a similar series for the Conquerors civs, too!
Are you going to make a Through the Ages video about all the common tech tree changes? (militia line buffs, introduction of new units and techs and so on)
awesome video and series !!!
I totally forgot about researching hand cannon and bombard cannon. Brings back memories.
Amazing video, ty very much for the analysis
You are amazing Spirit
But in the scenario editor you have a unit called Pope Leo right?
Thanks for another great vid! Here's my weekly bribe for the revival of the "road to" series, would love to see more SOTL gameplay
I hope you researched coinage first.
@@longbow857 lol
Kinda wild to me now thinking that Turks are an original civ because of how gunpowder is so different now. But it's cool looking back and thinking that of the original 13, there were some major style differences between civs, while with so many civs now, there are more overlapping similarities between civs.
_GOTHS GOTHS GOTHS GOTHS_
Malay?
yeh we all love that there is more and more content for Aoe2 but the number of civs does feel like it's spiraling out of control.
@@namename2215 yeah - I think they've done a good job keeping them unique so there aren't any two that just feel the SAME, but you definitely have multiple civs that qualify in each type, even focusing on gunwpoder, elephants, camels, etc
Hindustanis are basically upgraded version of Turks
@@namename2215 not only that but the civs don't even make sense. You have Norman Sicilians but also Vikings. Slavs but also Poles. Turks but also Cumans. Teutons but also Bohemians.
Great job, ty for the informative video.
They claimed they wouldn't add the Pope, but the Hun campaign proves otherwise ;)
Hello Spirit, could you make a Video on how to place perfect Fishing Traps? there must be a perfect layout so the traps and fish dont block each other
Probably should have mentioned the indirect buffs Turks got with the general improvements to cavalry archers over the years, namely the reduced cost and the more recent DE reduction of frame delay. Cav archers have done more than gunpowder to keep Turks relevant and gives them an option besides an all-in fast Imp gunpowder push.
Is there any difference between the civs in Forgotten Empires (for the original AoC distributed in 2012) and the civs in The Forgotten (same Exp, now first official, but for Age2 HD from 2013)? Also any difference from the last version of AoC and Age2 HD 2013 (without exp)?
Maybe that's why the figure of Pope Leo II in Attila's final mission doesn't have a white hat XDXDXD
Hoo hoo!! Turk milleti!
Janissaries are expensive units without any bonus, this is not fair. It should be change back to 1999 version: +8 bonus against infantry, +3 bonus against buildings.
my brian just went
click!
The moment you showed the hand cannoner upgrade.
Gunpowder had this wierdness for my for so long and know I remember why!!
If you want to go really potilical correct:
The Terms "celts","teutons","byzantines" and "saracens" refer to ancient peoples/places. Given how religiuos the middle ages were, they would probably have been offended, by beeing compared with "pagans". In fact, "Saracens" was actually used as a slur by crusaders. Also both Germany ("Teutons") and Byzantines called themself "Roman Empire". Also Byzanz was called "Constantinople", by the Byzantines, and Teutons were only one German Tripe (It is like calling a Saxon a Bavarian (or a Francon a Bavarian)). It would be interesting to hear, what modern Arabs would say, about beeing called "Saracens".
hey guys! spirit of the law here!
Reading these comments has a certain kind of charm to it. I wasn't born when Turks originally came out, and reading about people being hit with nostalgia is quite a trip
İslam seni çağırıyor
I just realized the hand cannon/cannon galleon tech to unlock the unit was removed lol.
Featured in most campaigns. Also are the driving force behind mutliple important historic events
20+ years later still no own campaign. feelsturkman.jpg
Seriously, a campaign where you play as Murad II and end with his son taking the City of Cities would be PERFECT.
@@Toonrick12 If you want to play a singlplayer rts campaign where you control a hoard of cockroaches look no further than SC2.
at least they have 2 historical battle, but yeah would love to have campaign of it
@@ANSELAbitsxb tis not a hoard, tis a controlled wave
if you're looking for a horde, build 300 Consripts in RA2
@@Toonrick12 It's odd that the game set around the Middle Ages lacks any official representation of an event often used to describe the end of the Middle Ages.
fascinating as always
petition to bring back the intro and that jucy mangonel shot
Yooo I never realized how goofy the conquistador at 3:01 looks. At first I thought he had a scope on his musket but I can see now that those are just the buckles on his armor.
But what he does have in his hands appears to be a flintlock musket with a comically large front sight and a flash hider. How did they get that so comically wrong?
I went into the comments specifically for this to see if anyone else noticed 😂😂😂
I think that this front sight is on a horse's...thingie
I hope
hi SOTL, i have become a great fan of your videos, i wonder if would be possible to make a trebuchets video , which main purposse its to show the most powerfull, nowadays are many of them for example: tartars +1 , sarracens more powerful, britons wolfwar, celts x2 hitpoints, mongols moves faster, japanese , and other.......would be so nice!! salutes from colombia
@Spirit Of The Law
Is there a way to play AoE2 DE on Windows 7? I wish there was some way or workaround.. Maybe you know one or are better at finding a solution.
I can play Definitive Edition on Windows 7 64-bit straight off the bat and have no performance issues other than my computer probably running a little hotter than it needs to for such a graphically simplistic game. Some people have reportedly had trouble with it, but it's well worth trying to see if you can play it!
Give the God damn hat back to the Janissaries!
After enabling gunpowder immediately after researching chemistry I would expect a higher cost of chemistry research. I think it''s cheap now. I also think it would make sense to remove research bombard tower, but requiring research keep in addition to chemistry to be able to make bombard towers.
Old Turks are symbolized in the game with their heads uncovered. but in the past, Turks never walked with their heads uncovered and they covered their heads even when they were sleeping. No one noticed this fine detail.
I knew I wasn't crazy! I remember having to "enable" hand cannons and cannon galleons when played as a kid lol.
Herkes şapka demiş fakat onun adı Kalpak
Ayrıca iki tür yeniçeri olmalı tüfeklinin dışında kılıç kullanan yakın dövüş birimi çünkü yeniçerilerin mesleği savaşmak oldugu için kılıç mızrak balta topuz vesaire silahların hepsine hakimler oyuncu oyun içinde istediği birimi seçebilmeli ayrıca kılıçlı akıncılar ve deliler birimleride olmalı aslında bir çok birim sayabilirim fakat bunlar sembol oldukları için eklenmeli
I remember the first time I played with them back in the day and saw they had a hand cannon in Castle Age thought it was crazy and overpowered. Since then I've always had a soft spot for them. However I'll never forget first multiplayer match ever against my brother. He chose his favorite Huns and I chose my favorite Turks. It was black forest and, as can be expected back in 2000, no aggression at all until we both were 200 pop... he had so many paladins my Janis couldn't do anything, it was a disaster
If he had like 50 paladins and you had something like 70 Janis, especially on a map like Black forest you have to micro them and try to hide in narrow gaps where the paladins can't properly surround your units. Janissaries should be able to win then.
Just don't ever engage an army of heavy cav in the field with anything unless you have some serious counters. That was the case irl too; there's a reason heavy cavalry was so successful in field battles until the invention of gunpowder.
You should have added some heavy camels, would have taken good care of paladins with janissary support from behind
Gotta love comments trying to correct something that happened 22 years ago…
@@OytheGreat Micro didn't exist at that time in my life lol. More so, PCs were slow and once the gates were open it was a stutter fest, so even if I knew, I wouldn't have been able to do anything about it! Also, economies were pretty bad, we had almost no clue on how to play, so it was mostly army, so give or take 120 paladins vs 120 janissaries.
Time has passed tho, and I can beat him and three friends at the same time, but that loss will always hurt!
@@johnxina5126 at that time I thought camels were useless and we played all-in one type of player. Hell, we even queded everything on one barracks/stable! It was a different time. But we both are pretty sure than even if he plays with a handicap of +150% I'd still beat him nowadays
The voicelines of turkish units are iconic and memes among turkish speakers
Does thumb ring affect Cavalry Archers?
Hey, whats the name of the Song outro? Thanks!
As a Turk I had to watch this.
would love some aoe4 content as well.
Maybe relevant: In early AoK, "free" upgrades were a lot more instant. I remember fighting against turk galleys with chemistry was a bit of a hassle.
Though it's been 20 years, it could be my memory playing tricks on me.
It's also the case that Chemistry was a *Castle Age* tech in AoK instead of Imperial Age like it is today. For all civilisations. Unlike today where it is specifically a Bohemian bonus to be able to research it in Castle Age. You can imagine the carnage Turk ranged units were able to cause with free Chemistry before you even brought gunpowder to the field. XD
My first civ, my best civ.
Evet Oduncu !
Tammam!
You are a : USTA!
Yeah one of the weirdest Turkish you can hear around, like soldiers and villagers talk to you as if you are childhood friend of them, which is not a case in Turkish.
That's why I say Tatars and Cumans speak better Turkish than Turks in the game 😂
I would say the janissary with the hat as Chef with gun
Oh no the Turks
Run!
Hey, how about video about condottieri and kipchak mercenaries of different civilisations?😉
By the way, you might want to make a video about these off-game controversies, SotL.
What do you mean there is no intro music ?
I've never played Turks before as a noob so this was very informative
I know about the gunpowder techs thanks to visiting the wiki a lot xD
I would love to have the Royal Janissary skin as the Elite Janissary in game. Ugh I want culturally accurate skins for all the A,B,S units please.
Mmh i am pretty Sure that i played age of kings since i have the disc but i cant remember These gunpowder techs
I loved watching the old cinematic when i was little.
Tamam. Yaparım. Evet!
(I'll do it. Okay. Yes!)
Why didn't they just make the hats the colour of the player?
Priests/monks still wear robes
I'd like to see the janissaries look like those from AOE4 or 3
Is this the same Sandy Petersen who designed levels for Doom 2?
Yes it is
Without Sandy the world would be a significantly less fun place.
Fucking LEGEND.
so Janissaries at some point in development where meant as what is now rattan archer
The whole Pope thing with the lawyers didn't stop them from putting in Pope Leo I in the game!
Interesting that the Turks went through so much change. Also the outro music is so nice and catchy. Doo doo doot doo doo.
That music has nothing to do with our culture. It sounds like bedouin desert music.
@@arda213 I mean the music sounds pretty nice but it just isn't accurate. Not even a bit.
@@flavourously4723
Ahh it isnt that nice neither. It is mediocre. Ever played civilization ?
@@arda213 Well I guess that's just subjective whether it sounds nice or not. But what we can agree is that it shouldn't have ever been their theme to begin with.
Civilization? What about it? Never played it myself...
Let's gooo
I love love love turks since recently! Free Hussars + Calv Archers + Bombard tower spam = STEAM ROLL
Turks have historically mounted javeliner called Jereed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jereed(It's a sport also) I think that they should access Genitours directly. (Not based on a Berber ally). This would be fair and could be a good trash unit with Sipahi upgrade. I think they may consider this.
Would be pretty cool to see genitours replacing elite skirms for a few civs where it makes sense.
@@aaronlatif52 No.
Remember Cav Archers?
Now you wouldn't, because Genitours, ohoho!
meaning Mongols, Huns, half of Turks and Cumans just lose their identity because Genitours are simply cheaper, easier to get, do more damage while taking less from Cav Archers and they don't need as many upgrades
@@The-jy3yq Then how come they arent used all that often by berbers already?
Wow, I am old!
Why no intro anymore😭😂
@Spirit Of The Law could you please do a video comparing the spear line to the camel line? Whenever I play as Turks I have a hard time working out which to use when facing cavalry (the same question applies to other civilizations which get camels, but Turks is most notable example since they don't even get pikemen)
He has a video evaluating specifically how bad Turk trash units are, but I don't remember if he makes the direct comparison to camels. Should still be worth a watch though for your needs
Camels need gold
Turks also need gold for all of their good units(except Light Cav)
how about some castle or feudal age gunpowder units?
Feudal?! Why not in dark age too if you're going that route?
They should change the sprite back to the hat
nIcE
Do they get the special skirmisher if they ally with the Vietnamese?
Love to see a 1 video 1 civ
A fun idea, koreans-through the ages?
Turks is best for death match starting from imperial age ?
likely better than average. But not as clear advantage as Huns (no houses) in post-imperial start.
Not best IMO. You want cavalry civs then to quickly overwhelm your opponent. In DM constructing several castles before you can start creating your best unit takes way too long and you're dead by something like a mass paladin raids before your first Janissary is ready.
They could've kept they hats and just made them change color with the player color, so that they would be mistaken... well, I guess there was still gray.
What if janissary were given +5 bonus against infantry? Would that make them overpowered or just stay the same? Or maybe more HP so that they can engage a close combat better.
Do Jannies need a buff?
They don't need damage against buildings - Trebs and Bombards exist
Do they need a bonus against Infantry? Umm, why? They already do solid damage while being buildable in Castle Age(mind you, this is one of the things that made Gurjaras ultra OP)
@@The-jy3yq because from what I can see, people still prefer HC over Janis. Because it's cheaper, easily spamable, and part of Turks specialist which is fast imperial.
Im pretty sure janissaries were used to fire two bullets at the same time
The Turk unique tech: "KKK" Krazy Kool Kannon man
Oh dear.
The hat change due to 'Mericans is SUCH an eyeroll moment as a European. Good grief >_>
Do turks get Imperial Skirmishers with Vietnamese ally?
I tested it a while back and they didn't! I don't know if they changed that though.
Wait, you don't need to research hand cannoneers anymore? I've only really played the original, so this is quite a shock to me.
It was removed with the 1st Expansion back in 2000 along with the extra tech required for the Bombard Cannon
When I saw the Janissary hat in the manual I thought it looked like the crown of upper Egypt. Even pixelated you'd have to have a mental disorder where you see KKK members everywhere you look to begin with in order to see it there (I realize some people do have this disorder but it's not our or AoE developers" problem; also thank God this game doesn't feature Spanish penitents in Capirotes, those would cause more than a few anneurisms). As for a papal miter... I guess you could see it there if you squint. But in this game you can literally slaughter monks, why does a potential quid pro quo make historically accurate headwear off-limit?
All in all a shame, I always thought the janissaries as shown in the game looked bad. Lacked identity. Perhaps they could restore their turkish glory now that they have better graphics. AoE3 do them justice.
The hat issue could be easily dealt with by making the rest of the uniform the team color, rather than mostly white.