Hey this isn't the Tetris episode! Unfortunately I had to put that episode on hold. I'm waiting on assets and approval of some footage. Rather than sit around and wait, here is a new episode! This is a good subject and encourages discussion, so please be respectful when commenting. Have a great weekend!
It also didn't help, that at one point they were stretch so thing. They were supporting the SMS, the GG, the Genesis, the SEGA CD, and the 32X, AND trying to do R&D on top of all of that.
Yep. It's historically accepted that the AMERICAN STAFF knows what's going on with the industry better than the JAPANESE STAFF. Exact same thing happened with NES > Mario franchise early on (Mario 2 debacle). Holy cow... ;/ Similar crap happened with the XBOX launch didn't it (but in reverse)?
Agreed. If the original had had a DVD player, it would have been a massive hit. It was the first mainstream machine offering internet access outta the box. A lot of us didnt have a P.C back then so with the emerging internet on the horizon in the late 90s and extremely limited phone access (remember WAP!?) the playstation would have lost the long race on that one for sure.
Sega's mistakes all seem to boil down to one big mistake: their obsession to beat Nintendo in the Japanese market. If Sega had fully capitalized on their successes outside of Japan, and paid more attention to what their American counterparts were saying, they may have done better in the long run.
The important part is that nintendo never launch a add on for the SNES or Super Famicom to "potencialized" the console, you may think what about Satellaview. Well it was no problem due to the lack of interest of japan going with sega, and Nintendo although a little bit late of the next generation in america the console was selling well outselling Sega at the end of the generation. the only thing we can call add on was the games itself remember they used special chips instead a like i said an add on.
I worked at Funcoland during all of this. Another big hit against the Saturn was the memory cart slot in the back of the console. General consumers believed it was there for Genesis backwards compatibility. When they unfortunately discovered it wasn't, they returned the system in mass numbers. I'll never forget that.
Jay Lucien Hahaha. I mean, it would've made sense so I understand the confusion amongst average consumers. I'm instantly reminded of how I missed out on the entirety of the 16-bit generation, because Dad thought it was stupid that the "new nintendo" wouldn't play his old Nintendo games, lmao. My next system would be the Saturn, then N64. I wouldn't experience the glory of SNES until the romsplosion of the late 90's.
Yess 85 I’m not quite sure what this comment is supposed to mean. But, no, emulating wasn’t a thing back then. Even if your computer was supposedly powerful enough to emulate a genesis game, where would you get them? There wasn’t really a such thing as “the internet” back then.
@@JazzMartian I'd say it's more of Japan's fault because they told them to make a 32-bit Genesis when they were already working on the Saturn. A simple "Hold on, the next-gen console is already in development" wouldn't have hurt.
@@JazzMartian agreed. Besides, it was a CD-based console. Without Nintendo being a child about keeping games on cartridge, third party game devs would have flocked around Saturn (except, Sega of Japan insulted Sony) . P.S: I think Sega of America had more brains (and ability to take calculated risks) than Sega of Japan, who took decisions mostly out of nervousness and a bad attitude.
@@JazzMartian it wasn't the 32x on its own. The 32x could've had a much better library at launch and done better but the Saturn made the company seem greedy in the eye of the consumer and that's never good from a business standpoint. So it was a combination of a lack of business acumen on both sides. Neither side can take full blame. They both lacked communication skills within their own fuckin company. If the two sides can't get on the same page you can't blame one side more than the other. Especially when America was only doing what Japan wanted them to do in the first place. Japan thought the consumer would view the Saturn as an upgraded 32x. And that's because they had incompetent people running the company. Anyone wanna play some Ecco?
sony is a bastard of a company that has no respect for it's buyers. and while the later PS machines were good, the early ones broke if you breathed on them, most returns and trade ins ever.
I think that Sega's biggest mistake was not to give Tom Kalinske full control over business decisions regarding North American market area. The man was a genius.
To be fair, Nintendo of Japan makes just as many stupid mistakes. Must be a Japanese business thing. That's what happens when old men run a corporation, thinking they know what's right for the younger generations.
Andrew Del Pilar What I'm talking about is that Sony's press conference after Microsoft's was particularly brutal. I didn't watch it myself, but I heard that Microsoft's press conference announcing the XBox One was painful to watch. Nothing but "Sports, sports, sports, sports. TV, TV, TV. Inane DRM. etc." with no mention of games coming out exclusively for the system, and then Sony ripped them up the next day with their announcement of the PS4. I saw that.
My thoughts exactly Lindsey. The 32X was a perfect cartridge based system to keep up with the cartridge based Nintendo 64. All SEGA needed was a Sonic game. We could have never seen Saturn in the West and it would have probably saved SEGA. We were going to get the Neptune, the full blown 32X console.
Imagine an alternate timeline where SEGA and Sony are just one, big, blue technological/gaming juggernaut against Nintendo. SEGA kinda accidentally helped Nintendo survive through that generation...
I think there's a good chance that if the N64 had been a CD based console the PS1 would have ultimately died and Nintendo might have accidentally saved Sega.
@@58jharris I highly doubt it. PS1 had so many must own exclusives, and that wasn't due to being cd vs cartridge. Plus, PS1 had a huge head start and by the time N64 released, already had a good number of those exclusives. As I mentioned above, just having a head start doesn't do much if fans are willing to wait. Having great games and a head start creates that advantage.
@@mattm7798 No it was because the N64 used cartridges. That caused a lot of third party developers to abandon Nintendo and say nay to the platform. Many of those exclusives you're referring to would have doubtless been N64 games otherwise. The most infamous example is Square and Final Fantasy 7. That was originally going to be an N64 game but Square went to Sony because they decided they wanted it on CD to make the game bigger and more expansive. That game alone sold a lot of PS1's, sales that could and should have gone to the N64.
@@58jharris Probably. Nintendo had the most powerful console, a huge name and a bunch of must have exclusive franchises (they also had Rare's support). If it wasn't for those damn cartridges, Nintendo would have gathered third party support and smashed Sony into a oblivion! The funny thing is that Sega only left the market because of Sony and Microsoft only entered in it because of the PlayStation. So, if it wasn't for this chaotic moment, the videogame world would be completely different!
"Sony doesn't know how to make hardware" ~ Sega of Japan. Neither did Atari but that didn't prevent Sega of Japan from being scared of the Atari Jaguar.
@@GamingDelight - To be fair, Nakayama's comment was based on the simple fact that Sony had never tried to make game hardware before, not that they'd tried and failed. I'm pretty sure that he would have said exactly the same thing about Microsoft (Xbox) and NEC (PC-Engine/TG16).
@@mattym8038 Haha, you have no clue what you're talking about. The PS2 sold 155 million units before they stopped publishing sales, which was still a good year before it was discontinued.
I think Sega's biggest mistake is they absolutely HATE delaying games. As Shigeru Miyamoto said "a late game can be turned good, a bad game is bad forever"
I heard a famous director say the same about movies (can't remember his name right now) but it's totally true. A late product can be turned good, but a bad product is bad forever. Wish more people took this approach instead of blindly focusing on only meeting budgets and deadlines. You can meet your budget, meet your deadline, and still put out absolute trash. It's not an automatic cause for celebration like a lot of studios act like now.
Some people would argue "Duke Nukem Forever" but they don't know the full history of DNF, which essentially was a guy who wanted everything to be in the game and the project restarted 4-5 times.
Deathbrewer is it jackie chan? He did say stuff like "Its good to invest many times onto a movie,because when it out,it was there to audience to see forever. If you rush to create a bad product,it is bad forever"
Electronic Gaming Monthly said Sega screwed up by not having a clear direction. Nintendo won because they think things through. But at the same time, Nintendo lost for think too much on a easy path, since they stayed with cartridges for the N64 while Sony kicked their butts with the CD based PlayStation.
One correction, roughly 4 retailers were selling the Saturn in May 1995 (Software Etc, EB Games, Babbage's, and Toys R Us). Most of the large retailers were also left out. Walmart was so furious that they discontinued selling Sega products from their stores, which was the biggest blow for the Saturn in my eyes.
joelggundam Uuuummmm you do realize GameStop was not even around at that time right . It was Funcoland that was the big & really only major gaming store at the time
Matthew Hughes I didn't know that either. Thanks Nintendo and Sega for making one of my all time favorite gaming console...which turned into four. Seriously, I've never ran into a bad PlayStation. I fell in love with all four of them. On top of that the PlayStation gave us the home port of Tekken. My all time favorite fighting series. Even though my PS3 died on me years ago, I still keep it around hoping to get it fixed...and stay fixed.
It's so dramatic honestly. It's like something out from a movie or book. Nintendo and Sega, the two biggest video game companies in the world at that time, unknowingly gave birth to their biggest rival ever: the Sony PlayStation.
Sony made this mistake too. They fkat out refused to give samsung and LG (of korea) triniton for thier TVs. Which led to thouse 2 developing thier own tech. Now look at samsung and LG's display sales compared to sony. HA!
apparently Japanese companies tend to have ego issues, and this almost caused Sony to fail at the PS3. They were arrogant because the PS2 was so successful.
I've said for years that Sega's most dangerous foe was never Nintendo, but rather Sega themselves. its that old bit about how a house divided cannot stand.
The same goes for Nitnendo, who shot themselves in the foot with cartridges for the N64 and a complicated archetecture and controller. I've always said that Sony never really beat MS or Nintendo. They just won by not doing anything drastically different than what the industry was offering at the the time. Sega and MS were both entertainment companie sthat nkew that growing the industry required risk. Sony has, until virtual reality, never really even tried to grow the indsutry or psuh it forward.
+JazGalaxy The cartridge format wasn't a terrible idea, as it did provide the advantage of much faster load times; and while I do hate the general design of the N64 Controller, I do have to give it props for the analog stick, which provided a massive control advantage for 3D movement over the Playstation and Saturn controllers.
*+JazGalaxy* The N64 was a genius design. If 3D games failed, you could immediately readjust to a 2D standard, assuming Nintendo decided to make 2D games instead of 3D. And the joystick would remain for those that want 3D. How can anyone call that a bad design? The only _bad_ thing about it is the joystick itself.
I always wondered why Sega came out with so many systems and add on systems in such a short period of time. It did make them seem greedy and ruined their loyal fan base. I was always a fan of the Genesis because they had so many great games. It seems they just didn’t have a clear plan on how they were going to take their consoles into the gaming future.
Richard: Sega was horribly run. They made stop gap hardware like the CD & 32X and failed to make sequels from the popular Genesis games onto the Saturn. Most obvious shown by the canceled Sonic Xtreme
Several of the best Saturn games didn't even reach The West, Stolar dismissed JRPGs giving PS1 a monopoly over them. Trust me Saturn's Failure wasn't just the lack of sequels. So much went wrong, although some of the Saturn Games were real gems that never got proper support like Genesis Greats did. At least Dreamcast learned from both mistakes & sold hard on that Crane Simulator named Shenmue & gave us Jojo's Bizarre Adventure in addition to Sonic Adventure.
@@ryannuget7164 The guy was definitely good, he worked for Mattel for a long time and knew what kids liked in NA, he revived the Barbie in US and helped launch Masters of the Universe toy line, after he left Sega in '96, Sega sadly nearly bankrupted themselves by 2000, mostly because they spent so much money on 32X, Saturn (and all the crazy versions of it in JP), also because they failed to include a BlueRay with Dreamcast (which people loved), but once Sony announced PS2 was using BR it was all over, all developers & customers bailed over to Sony. At least Sega's still around making games, it would have been terrible to loose them.
Sega of America made some terrible decisions, too. The Saturn had a good library of excellent RPGs in Japan that the American president refused to bring over, saying essentially that RPGs wouldn't do well in the US and that we wanted more sports games. But yeah, Sega Japan made some terrible decisions. The decision to do the 32x when the Saturn was already in the planning stages was absolutely bonkers. The constant infighting between Sega Japan and America also made zero sense, at times the fighting got so bad you'd think you were looking at two completely different companies rather than two branches of the same company.
Yes and no. It's important to remember that back then, in the pre-internet era, Japan and America might as well have been different planets. Sega didn't really understand or know what to do with the success of the Genesis in the USA. The "Sega is the system with attitude" marketing didn't really make any sense to the Japanese because that's a distinctly American thing. And "Genesis is the sports console" also made no sense to them because they didn't care about US sports or Electronic Arts.
Yeah, Sega Japan refused to listen to anything America had to say, thinking they always knew better. Sega Japan fought hard against America's suggestion of bundling Sonic with the Genesis to get it to sell better. It's true that Japan didn't at all understand the culture behind America's "attitude" marketing, but that shouldn't have mattered. It worked for the US, so they should've put more faith in their American team members that they knew what they were talking about when they said decisions that Japan was making would hurt sales in the US.
DJ Kidna, It takes a LOT to convince someone that their insticts are wrong. Especailly when it goes so far against what they believe they intrinsically know. My brother's wife works fo ra cosmetic company that does business in Japan. They frequently have difficult times understanding western cosmetics, specifically products used to make white people darker. In Japan, the only toning product they could even conceive of is one that makes people lighter. No matter how much research they are presetend with, they almost outright refuse that anybody would buy a product that makes them darker.
Sega Japan didn't know their own markets. It showed and it hurt them. The US side knew the markets entirely. They knew what was would work. The Japanese side was just too complacent and stagnated.
SEGA of America killed the Saturn. There were tons of great games in Japan, but Bernie Stolar wouldn't localize them because he didn't want any "weird Japanese games" on the Saturn.
@@madhatter8508 The Saturn was dead in the water and nothing was going to change that. Probably the most playable 5th gen console in the present day but it's cross platform 3D efforts were mostly an embarrassment.
@@supersexysega The Saturn outsold the PlayStation in Japan from 1994 to 1997. It was dead on arrival in North America because it launched early, thereby alienating retailers, developers, and customers in one fell swoop. The Saturn had over 1200+ games in Japan and enjoyed enormous 3rd party support and a ton of hit games that Sega of America refused to localize. Sega of America under Bernie Stolar deliberately killed the Saturn because they were trying to force SOJ to release the Dreamcast early. Sega still made a profit with the Saturn despite Sega of America's failures, but what did they get with the Dreamcast? Three straight years of losses. Sega of America didn't know their own ass from a hole in the ground.
@@madhatter8508 I am well aware the Saturn did extremely well in Japan and it took Final Fantasy 7 to put the PSX over the top in Japan. By the time Stolar said the Saturn isn't our future the system was so far dead no one cared. Sega of Japan cost the Genesis tons of sales in the holiday season of 95'. They were 300,000 Genesis units short of demand because they were so focused on making sure the Saturn was manufactured. Not to mention the Sega of Japan commissioned 32x to shit on all the great Genesis software in late 94' into 95' At the end of the day Sega of Japan should have done what was best for their market and let Sega of America do what was best for the Western market. The Saturn regardless of its success in Japan was a huge failure worldwide. I personally love the Saturn doesn't make it a complete trainwreck though.
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RetroCoreGaming: sega JP never grasoed the success that their foreign partners achieved. It was never that successful in Japan becauae they (the headquarters in JP) werent very good.
#2 is an important element in the Sony Playstation story. It wasn't just "revenge on Nintendo," it was their response to the video game industry as a whole.
Sony PlayStation is a big LIE. Sony cheated Nintendo out of the Super Famicom CD add on deal to get the designs and patents on them ,and they deceived and TRICKED SEGA of America into letting them design a chipset for the upcoming Sega Jupiter 32-bit Console, only then to STEAL the chipset right under SOA's noses.
Tornado1994 well, apparently the reason Nintendo backed out was because they realized the contract would give sony full rights to their Ips to the point that they could release their own system without Nintendo and still use characters like mario and link =b
That is 100% Correct. Sony drew up shady clauses in their Contract with Nintendo's CD add on. Giving Sony 80% control off] it and would allow SONY to make Mario and Zelda games. n July of 1988, Nintendo started development of Super Famicom codenamed Famicom 2. Nintendo at the time had taken heavy interest in acquiring a smaller,cheaper off the shelf design of Apple's 1986 16-bit Home Computer the Apple IIGS, so they contracted Japanese semiconductor Ricoh Silicon Technologies and Sony to come up with a special System on a Chip design of IIGS hardware. Ricoh designed and customized a Single Core 16-bit processor called the A522 which powers the entire architecture of the IIGS hardware on a single processor, Sony in turn was assigned 2nd Party OEM rights to its Motherboard and designed a special Wav. Custom made Sound processor for the Famicom 2(designed to outshine the Brand NEW and cutting edge SEGA Mega Drive console which launched in Japan that Holiday season)). In June of 1990, about several months before Super Famicom's Japanese rollout, Nintendo heard rumors and reports that SEGA was partnering up with Pioneer and JVC to design a CD add on accessory for the Mega Drive(Mega CD or "Sega Project Earth" was kept top secret by SEGA until its public unveiling in April 1991), so naturally they wanted in on the rumored Compact Disc ROM craze that they saw starting with NEC and projected to have a CD add on ready for Super Famicom by 1992, since Sony and Philips developed CD tech together in 1981-1982 and since CD ROM was code developed by Sony,JVC and Philips in 1984-1985, Nintendo figured that it would be much easier to simply approach Sony and ask to help assist in developing the accessory. Here's where things fell apart. Sony in 1990, decided that since they had grown into a Large Corporation(they had purchased Columbia Pictures,Tri Star and CBS Music/Epic BMG from Coca Cola in 1988) that instead of working and partnering with others THEY could pretty much do whatever they wanted. Sony's new Attitude was "We want to Monopolize ANY market we choose" so by that time, Sony was eyeing the video gaming business and instead of wasting time and R&D on building and developing a new home console, they decided to cheat and screw over Nintendo with the newly codenamed "Project Nintendo Play Station". What Sony did was THEY drew up the contract. Adding multiple Clauses in it which gave Sony 80% of control of the add on. On licensing,Manufacturing, Royalties, Profits, while Nintendo would be left with just a measly 20%. Sony was telling Nintendo in early 1991, that THEY were going OWN the add on, it was as if they wanted Nintendo to literally GIVE away the hardware to Sony. Nintendo was certainly furious, and demanded a renegotiation set for the Early Summer of 1991, but unfortunately by then, Sony had another demand intentionally designed to piss off Nintendo, in June 1991, Ken Kutaragi and Hiroshi Yamauchi held a Private Meeting in Kyoto, Kutaragi not only refused to change the demands in the contract, he then BOLDLY flat out proclaimed that Sony should ALSO have the right to design and publish Mario and Zelda games, they were telling Nintendo that THEY were going to handle development of Nintendo's IPs. This was the final straw, Yamauchi dismissed Kutaragi and later called and told him, the deal was off. Nintendo tore up Sony's contract and sent him a Nintendo made contract, giving Nintendo 90% of the rights, with even a JTO Trademark of the prototype "Nintendo Super Famicom CD" and relegated Sony solely to 2nd Party partner only with No ability to license Nintendo IPs for the machine. Kutaragi pretty much discarded the contract, but not before altering it, giving Sony some rights to use the designs and concepts by redrawing them. Nintendo missed this hidden clause snuck in and signed the contract, but not before realizing that the deal with Sony and Nintendo was pretty much dead. Nintendo DROPPED Sony from all 2nd Party duties in November of 1991, the newer batches of Super NES and Super Famicom Motherboards would no longer be handled by Sony, instead Nintendo contracted RICOH to handle ALL motherboards and Sharp as Secondary. The biggest Mistake Nintendo made was they forgot to LEGALLY buy back the designs and concepts and let Sony run off with them. All Nintendo had to do was sue Sony for Patent Infringement and Sony's dreams for PlayStation would have been dead as a doornail. Sony then in August 1991, set up a meeting with SEGA Enterprises,Ltd in Haneda, disguising themselves as an OEM partner, Kutaragi and Sony were actually secretly planning Corporate espionage to STEAL hardware designs,blueprints and concepts of whatever successor of Mega Drive/Genesis that was being planned so they could outdo SEGA in everything technically. The meeting between Sony and SEGA of Japan took place in Early September 1991. It lasted barely 45 minutes before Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard threw Sony, Kutaragi and his Chairboard out of their office. Berating them, Yelling at them and warning them that they would have no qualms about competing against them IF they even decided to launch a video game product of their own. SEGA was PISSED OFF because Sony had claimed to them that could design a cutting edge chipset for SEGA without actually showing or displaying to them any proof of such a claim, no concepts, nothing. Sony just shot their mouth off with claims that couldn't be substantiated and on top of that had asked and begged to have access to SEGA's Arcade tech and specs and motherboards. The only thing SEGA showed Sony was System 32 Arcade Hardware, before telling to go screw themselves and slammed the door in their faces. SEGA of Japan saw RIGHT through Sony. They didn't trust them, wanted NOTHING to do with them and refused to do any business with them they had given JVC full 2nd Party rights to Mega CD. To Sony's complete shock, SEGA were smarter than they thought. The plan to spy and steal hardware from SEGA had backfired, or did it? Sony finally found an opening in the Spring of 1992, when they discovered that SEGA of America functioned differently from SOJ and were often naive. So they CONNED and WEASELED their way into SOA's offices. They concocted an alibi that they had a 2nd Party Negotiations with SOJ going on and(without presenting proof of such a claim) and thus wanted to handle 2nd party duties for Sega CD in America. They then told(LIED) to SOA that they could design and assemble a 3D chipset for SEGA's Project Jupiter, in which SOA blindly let Sony have access to specs,designs,concepts e.t.c, SOA had NO idea that they would be doublecrossed. Sony then LIED and deceived SOA by asking to design hardware for Jupiter with a simple(weak and poorly written) contract with a hidden and sleazy clause: Sony would assist SOA in designing a Jupiter prototype chipset, so as long as they be allowed to develop Sega CD games and handle Sega CD's 2nd Party rights. If they suddenly discontinued it, the hardware would be Sony's. All SEGA had to do to stop this, was consult with SOJ(who would have put licensing and Patent protection on the hardware to prevent Sony from stealing it) but they never did. Sony assured SOA that negotiations of the Jupiter chipset would take place during Early 1993. Sony NEVER fulfilled their end of the bargain and broke their promise.(This was to bide time so that Sony could LOCK down the hardware and collect the licensing rights to it.). So when Early 1993 rolled around and SOJ consulted with SOA's engineering team after sending them a prototype of System 32 based Giga Drive/MARS,, SOA told them all about Sony. SEGA was furious and when JVC found out that Sony was manufacturing Sega CD ILLEGALLY, they took Sony to court and won. So all CD Loading Tray Model 1 Sega CD's were immediately pulled from the Market in the Summer of 1993. SOA found out the hard way that Sony had bamboozled them. Sony never met with them in the Spring of 1993. Instead, Sony started full fledged development of their CD based console "Sony PlayStatio- X". SEGA of Japan had suspected that Sony was planning something. So in Early 1993, they assigned Hideki Sato to begin work on a Top Secret 64-bit powerhouse project codenamed "Aurora". AURORA was going to be Model 2 Arcade based. Its pretty easy to guess what eventually became of Aurora. So you see, Sony SCREWED both SEGA and Nintendo over. If you want to know where Nintendo was monopolistic, it was when Minoru Aikawa was in charge of Nintendo of America.
I was 100% sega loyal. I bought the 32X and the Sega CD. When I saw the price and release time of the Saturn for the first time it gave me pause. I had a conversation with and employee about the forthcoming Sony Playstation and he filled me in on all of the titles that were launching with the Playstation. After getting burned on the 32X, it did not take long before I switched my deposit on the Saturn to Sony and I never looked back.
Sega 32X was awful. It was doomed from the start. Trying to make a stop gap between the Genesis & the Saturn was a horrible idea. They clearly didnt learm from the Sega CDs failure
@@FCT70 but its also hard to sell something when the next gen console comes out in JP around same time as 32X comes out. Stop gaps, add ons, etc never pan out
Sega Enterprises,Ltd in the 80s and 90s was 100% Controlled by CSK Holdings, its Parent Company. SOJ had ZERO corporate power or say. CSK was the one making ill advised business decisions.
Tornado1994, he's right. The downfall of Sega is mostly Sega of Japan's fault. Read the 'Console Wars' book by Blake J Harris, it goes into some detail over what happened and 90% of it was all SoJ's incompetence.
Well that's a weird way of thinking considering the Saturn is, at least for arcade lovers, clearly the far superior system in terms of hardware (also as far as ergonomics go). Many of the games hold up to this day. Take imports into account and it crushes the PS1. Nowadays it's also expensive and it still can't be emulated well whereas the PS1 can be played on android so...you made the right choice (imho). I did too and like(d) Sega and arcade stuff so I may be biased but yeah... Shame Sega fucked themselves out of the race.
I was in the same boat. Being Sega fans, my family bought the Saturn at launch. Being $400 there was no way we were going to buy another system after that purchase. The gamble was a huge bust and I remember being jealous of all my friends with their N64s and PS1s. That said there were a few really good Saturn games I have fond memories of. I also remember renting the 32X from Blockbuster Video to try it out because we didn't see the point of buying it with the Saturn coming.
@@TBirdKris agreed the ps1 had alot of great games that started franchises and I didn't own the n64 at the time as well because I was only 10 years old we or should I say I could not just go out and buy two systems lol but I respect the games that came out on n64 too
Me too ! My brother came home with one and i was impressed when he popped in NFL Gameday. It was so much better than Madden and Joe Montana Football. Sold my Saturn and bought one myself.
Tom Kalinske knew that this announcement will sink any credibility SEGA had left, but there was little he could do about it since SEGA of Japan was calling the shots and by 1997 he left the sinking ship called SEGA
The people responsible for the conception,approval,marketing and distribution of PS1 deserve a medal. This was by far the most insane, bold and impossible move back in the real console wars days.
I think another huge blunder was the no RPG policy... During the post-FF7 RPG boom in North America. Saturn exclusives like Grandia and the Lunar remakes were ported over to PSone, and those versions would be the only versions released in NA
Sony had a no-RPG policy in the US, as well, until FFVII hit. (The only exceptions were Beyond The Beyond, Wild Arms and Suikoden because they used 3D in a way Sony approved of).
@@JazGalaxy And, of course, it was the same guy behind both policies, Bernie Stolar. The fact is the PSOne sales were not that solid until he was out, and then he goes to Sega and implements the same policies high were even worse for a system that had such a wealth of RPGs to localize. I'm guessing Sega thought they wanted to recapture the cool factor that the PS1 had grabbed from them after they forced Kalinsky out as the fall guy for the fumbled launch, but that wasn't Bernie that created the PlayStation's cool factor. If anything he delayed it. (Conspiracy minded folks say he was sent by Sony to sabotage the Saturn's recovery from its launch missteps, but those are as incoherent and mindless as any conspiracy).
Do you mean seppuku? That's suicide with sword ripping your belly. It's usually associated to dying with honor after being dishonored badly. Sudoku is a old math puzzle game. There was also a video game series with a similar enough sounding name called Suikoden. Konami made it instead of Sega. Seppuku makes the most sense with the context.
I actually met the hardware designers for the Dreamcast, a British team from PowerVR. They said they begged Sega to use DVDs. That they would sell a billion just as DVD players. Nope, no idea why but they were wedded to GD-ROM, maybe they thought it was bespoke so uncopyable.
So from what I’m hearing, all of Sega’s mistakes can be summed up as: SOJ: I have an amazing strategy to fuck over everything we’ve built and ruin the company . SOA: No that’s a terrible idea. Don’t do it SOJ: How ‘bout I do, anyway *jingle*
If Nintendo and Sony actually teamed up, SEGA would've died before the Saturn came to be. And with discs. If SEGA and Sony teamed up, Nintendo still would've put up a fight. Their first-party games are still considered the best, even today.
Shout out to the Dreamcast though. Great games. Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, House of the Dead, Jet Set Radio, Sega Bass Fishing, Rival Skools, Power Stone, Soul Calibre, Virtual Tennis...
Me too ! I've regretted it since. I missed playing Mario in the 80s. But after i started working i bought the N64 and was finally on board. The Dreamcast was a great system though !
TheLegendInYou I would debate that. Seems to me that the Sega Japan president was horrible at making decisions. I think that even Sega of Japan would have been the only one its president would have still fucked it up.
@@poswm dude the memory card that was inside of the controller had mini games that you could take with you where ever you went and helped you level up in the games when you put the memory back in the controller.
@@gamebros8424 Ergonomics is the most important part of a controller to me. I hated that wire being on the wrong end of it. It always tugged tge controller out of my hands.
And speaking of Stolar, let's talk about this guy for a bit. When the Playstation launched in America, it had a rocky start. Sony had hired Stolar as the head of Sony Computer Entertainment of America, and the guy proceeded to veto all sorts of games, mainly 2D games and JRPG localization, in favor of sports titles. In fact, we almost never got Final Fantasy 7 in America thanks to this guy. Thankfully, Sony quickly caught on to him, and soon fired him and reversed his policies, allowing a steady and healthy stream of games to once again flow into the console's market. But then, SEGA of America not only decided to hire the guy fresh after being fired at Sony, they express made him the CEO of the company. If the botched American launch of the Saturn was the first nail in the coffin for the console, then Stolar was definitely the last. He pulled the exact same draconian policies he did at Sony, vetoing a number of quality 2D titles, which were unquestionably the best titles for the system, and downplaying the Saturn as dead in the water. Not only did his policies piss what was left of SEGA's fanbase at the time, it also drove practically all American third party developers who were still willing to develop game for the system to boycott the Saturn altogether, perhaps even SEGA as a whole. In a short amount of time, Stolar effectively destroyed SEGA's reputation of being a much more supportive and third-party friendly platform than Nintendo, a reputation it had worked on building for years. Stolar may not have been the sole contributor to the Saturn's downfall; from what I hear, the team responsible to market the system was totally incompetent, apparently unaware that they were trying to advertise a video game system, and the complexity of the hardware itself, as you mentioned in the video, made it difficult to program quality games for the system, doubly so when it wasn't designed to handle 3D graphics in an era where polygonal graphics was becoming all the rage. However, the fact that SEGA completely overlooked the man's past history when they hired him, immediately replaced the far more competent and savvy Tom Kalinsky as the head of SEGA of America with him, and allowed him to stay in power until around the Dreamcast's launch, is truly mind-boggling, and a testament of SEGA's utter ineptitude in managing the company from the mid-90's onward. Something, I feel, they still haven't quite learned yet.
I think Stolar might be the reason Working Designs started developing titles for the original Playstation. His hard line against niche 2D games and RPG's drove them into the arms of Sony. Not that Working Designs was pure as the driven snow, mind.
Bernie Stolar is worse than the video game crash itself. He could've made another one if he was head of what video games could ever come over to America altogether. What an idiot this guy is. The CD and Saturn still have amazing games, but only in Japan. Well, actually, the CD surprisingly has a lot of localized ones.
You are 90%, Here's EVERYTHING that Stolar did. He personally HATED the Saturn: segareniassance.blogspot.com/2016/03/op-ed-bernie-stolar-and-isao-okawa-dumb.html#comment-form However, Saturn was ALWAYS designed as a 3D System. The common assumption it wasn't. is incorrect.
Not SEGA. CSK. Saturn wasn't poorly designed. It was in fact the most ADVANCED and brilliantly designed Console of the 5th Gen. CSK forced it into production shortly after SEGA had scrapped its planned Jupiter console in mid 1993. And SEGA didn't come to late with the Master System. They entered in with the SG-1000 in 1983. Master System was blocked from getting software support by Nintendo of America. It's CEO Minoru Arikawa LOCKED developers UNDER CONTRACT. They weren't even allowed to make games for other home consoles.
Atari - at least after Jack Tramiel took over - was notorious for stretching the truth or hiding important details. Anyone who was around during the Atari vs Amiga ad campaigns can tell you that there were more footnotes and asterisks on the Atari ads than on a government cost report. They were hilariously deceptive and dishonest.
For sure. I'm perfectly aware of that. His nickname was "Satan". He also was responsible for running Atari all the way into the ground 6 feet under. Jaguar was a bit behind the PS1 and WAY behind the Saturn in power and computing, it was not capable of 64-bit instructions while Saturn could theoretically push a max 64-bit instructions since the SH-2 Aurora could run Dual Core instructional power and since it contained a total of 4 32-bit Instructional Data Registers and Threads combined(2 32-bit Registers and Two 32-bit Threads).
I will give Jack one bit of props, and that is by the fact that they put the Atari ST together, from start to finish, in about 6 months (If I remember correctly). Sure, it lagged behind the Amiga in every category except price, clock speed and MIDI, but in that time frame that's still pretty impressive. (Clock speed turned out to not be the big advantage they thought it would be, due to the Amiga's co-processors.)
Seems like Sega of Japan was always the road blocker to the Success of Sega in general. All because of SoJ being jealous of SoA's success with the genesis in America. Smh :/
They didn't really understand it. It takes a lot to run a business in a foreign country. Microsoft has made similar problematic decisions in Japan. Their Xbox slogan was "Jump In" which they demanded be used in all territories for branding "synergy". But taht's a phrase that, despite Japan TELLING THEM SO, is a colloquialism that makes no sense in Japan. So MS marketing slogan and commercials in Japan were basically gibberish. It would be like if MS sold the Xbox One X with the slogan "XBOX ONE X! STAND OVER!"
retrospiel I do further research not just from TH-cam but as well as talking on forums with others. Granted SoA messed up at times as well (hiring Bernie Stolar), but SoJ really showed their colors.
They are also the reason why Sonic underground was a terrible show, look up "5 fingers censorship japan" and guess what caused Sonic underground to suck.
I know you mention it briefly, but I think the lack of DVD playback on the Dreamcast was a much more significant mistake than things like the 32x, and was the final nail in SEGA's coffin. When the PS2 was released, DVD players were as expensive as the PS2, and many people bought a PS2 simply because it could play DVDs, and having a games console included was just a bonus.
I don't beleive you can call it a "mistake". It simply wasn't an option. The Dreamcast launched a year before the PS2, and Sony was only able to prodide the DVD players in the PS2 becuase of their leverage as a company that made DVD players. Sony would never have had that option. (Any product that includes a DVD player has to include the license, which adds extra cost to the unit. Sony got around that because they were basically paying themselves. MS got around it by disabling the DVd feature in the Xbox until you bought a seperate device, the remote, that allowed you to play DVDs)
I think I heard somewhere that Sega was planning on adding a DVD Drive to the Sega Dreamcast but it was too late. Don't quote me on it because it's very vague in my memory.
It wasn't that big of a deathblow on its own. After all, the Nintendo GameCube didn't have a DVD player either, and it remained decently competitive. The GameCube probably would've done quite a bit better if it did have one, but Nintendo did at least take the opportunity to take a lesson from the Dreamcast by using an exclusive disc format that greatly helped prevent piracy. If they weren't going to include DVD playback anyway, that was at least the next best option.
Decently competitive? 155 million PS2 sales versus 22 million GameCube sales. A DVD player was a HUGE deal at the time. Heck, you used to be able to get PS2 bundles with DVD movies instead of games! That's how important the DVD player was on the PS2.
Those 22 million sales are still a decent amount by normal standards that the Dreamcast could never have dreamed of reaching. The XBox also had a DVD player and only sold 24 million. The PS2 just dominated everything else that generation.
I’m honestly surprised Nintendo survived that era. It was the only company to stick with cartridges and they probably would’ve died out if Sega didn’t shoot themselves in the foot...
The proverb "pride comes before the fall" applies exactly to SEGA. Early 90's they boasted "Genesis does what Nintendo doesn't". And by the end of the decade they were down and out in the console wars.
To be fair, that was all Sega of America. I'm a European and I hate how insecure with their product all their commercials made them them sound, resorting to make fun of Nintendo.
yes, like almost go broke and become a third party developer in a last ditch effort to recuperate costs and become a mere shadow of what you once were. Nintendo certainly doesn't do that!
It truly is unbelievable how Sega rose to have Nintendo on the ropes and actually beat them briefly only to losing it all a few years later. What's perplexing is that if you read the book Console Wars, Nakayama was no doubt the one who sunk Sega's proverbial boat yet he was also the one who chose Tom Kalinske to lead Sega US which was a brilliant move. It makes you wonder if there was pressure from others in Sega that managed to convince him to stop listening to Tom. We will never know.
"Sony doesn't know how to make hardware." WTF? Lol. I know this was the 90's, but Sony was killing it with stuff like their Walkman and Discman for the last decade. Good call, Sega of Japan!
Nope. None of this was SEGA of Japan's fault. Plus, I'm GLAD SEGA of Japan turned Sony down. Had they listened and agreed to partnership, Sony would have destroyed the good fortunes of both SEGA and Nintendo and would have destroyed BOTH companies. Dreamcast would have NEVER been made, Nintendo 64 wouldn't have saw light of day as by 2000, BOTH SEGA AND Nintendo would have stopped making consoles and would have be brought out by Sony as subsidiaries BOTH developing games for PlayStation 2. Sony wanted to MONOPOLIZE the gaming market. They wanted to defeat BOTH Nintendo and SEGA.
It's so funny, it's sad. SEGA at one time was even outselling NINTENDO. Then Sega made so many horrible mistakes, that it was possible for SONY to kill SEGA with three words: "Two, ninety, nine."
@@eternalhalloween1 - Nakayama was pretty much directly responsible for all of that. I've seen criticisms of Sony of Japan being "too Japanese" - as in, too proud and inflexible to make the kinds of innovative decisions that American companies tend to make all the time. But frankly, I think Sega of Japan was even more deserving of that criticism than Sony, given how they basically refused to work with their American counterpart. For context, the Sony-too-Japanese criticisms I saw came at about the time that Microsoft entered the Japanese market with the Xbox and 360. While neither of those consoles could really compete with the PS2 and PS3 in Japan, people in general favored the 360's UI over that of Sony's, and the "Too Japanese" comment applied mostly to Sony's stubborn refusal to make their system UI more user-friendly.
For those curious, favoring in inflation that $399 would equal to $643.50 to today's money. Also funny how Sony would screw themselves at first with the PS3 announcement of the price of 599 US dollars. That 299 comment is still funny as Hell.
Sire Kumasutra Steve Race’s “$299” speech is still one of the most epic moments in E3 history. It really doomed the Saturn before the Gen5 console war began.
...yeah. But you have to remember that Sega had internal memory to save games to where the PS1 was the first console to demand that the player buy a memory card just to save a game. The Saturn also came with the pack-in game Virtua Fighter (which had it's own problems) where the PS1 came with nothing but a demo disk. So really the only reason the PS1 sold for 299 was because it was the first console to begin selling crap piecemeal in order to lower the price. It was a huge departure from the SNES, which came with 2 contorllers and Mario World right out of the box.
J.R. Wizzle : Yeah, I mean, it was smart of Sony. And it became the defacto way the industry works now. Even MS made a major mis-step by packing in the Kinect and charging a higher price than Sony's PS4 (which came with their standard nothing.). But I still remember getting a PS1 for Christmas and then having to explain to my parents that I now needed to get a memory card, another controller so my brother could play, and a game. It wasn't a HUGE deal for my family, but having to spend an extra 100 dollars they hadn't counted on could have been a huge deal for most families. "Oh, you mean that 300 dollar thing we just bought does absolutely nothing until we spend more money? And you want to go right now because if not then you got nothing for Christmas? Great. Thanks Sony."
I was 14 when the Dreamcast came out and despite never actually getting it, I loved playing it (got kicked out of the store one time for playing too much). My classmates, though? "I'm not gonna buy that, don't you know the PS2 is coming out soon?" Pure, blind hype in Sony's favor destroyed the Dreamcast.
Good. Sega was greedy. Got the genesis and sonic kept freezing. I returned it and got a Nintendo with DK country. Best game decision ever. Sega was crap hardware.
My Genesis never gave me a problem. For a while the Dreamcast was superior to PS1 but we all knew that the PS2 was going to beat the crap out of it in every way imaginable!
I think the two huge cultural differences made a huge impact! Also, i believe Japanese are very arrogant people w huge egos in business. Broad general statement. Think it holds true in the demise of their company in these incidences tho
@@therealrobbdee672 i mean, the japanese aren't really generally like that and it was more of a sega of japan issue since nintendo, while still having short commings, didn't have to go through half sega went through, also we could talk about sony which itself is a japanese company
Cultural differences did play role but it mostly down to bad management the Sega CD should not being released so fast with mostly terrible games they could have easily made decent or at least okay money from it and give it time to develop . Once that was done sell the Saturn.
Michael Katz and Tom Kalinske were the architects of the success of Sega Genesis in the United States and Sega Japan never wanted to accept it. Later, his pride and one-sided decision-making turned against him.
Yeah, but i think the point 2 is over blown, like we dont know the terms and agreemnts Sony put on Nintendo or Sega to work with them. They are not known as been senerous and rather greedy. Im really glad neither went with Sony.
@@Andrei3253 I've heard from many sources that Sony wanted a lot of control with the console they were developing with Nintendo and even hid a clause in the contract that would permit them to do so. Naturally, that made Nintendo back out. With Sega, it seems SoJ just didn't want to work with them.
Lord Calvanian but barely few knew because nobody bought the Jaguar and thus Atari kicked the bucket. I got a Jaguar for $50 back then on clearance, didn't get Doom because I already had it on 32X.
Sonic 06 didn't even do anything wrong, it's basically just an epic Sonic Game (like the adventure games) that needed more development time & was released with a lot of problems to an audience that hadn't yet gotten the Adventure Games. Sonic 4 & Sonic Colors were the real games that killed the Sonic Series by starting the Meta Era. 2010s Decade forgot that Sonic was supposed to be cool & made him into a lame parody of himself.
@@WaterKirby1994 After Sonic 06, Sega started to cut the budget for future Sonic titles more and more, resulting in games that have not much passion and effort put into it despite a couple gems (like Colors, Generations, Mania and All-Stars Racing). That combined with strict deadlines and the fact that making a ultra fast paced 3D platformer is very difficult and expensive to do correctly, also resulted in a lot of mediocre to bad games in the series, unfortunately.
@@dinohermann1887 Colors & Unmodded Generations weren't Gems & I know that. Of course it isn't just budget reduction, the series was clearly mismanaged & a lot of money got wasted on Boom. Yes that is the problem, 3D Boost insists on having mostly Just Sonic go too fast for the series own good. The series needs to Return to Adventure.
̶o̶r̶ /and. Don't leave the progress to those who have the money but not the skills it is the brothel on the international scale(the time to buy all the good programmers, buy all the small publishers, explode the arcade market, that's what they are capable of). The mastery of hardware and software was on the side of Sega. The moral of this story is that money is a brake on progress (in this configuration).
Nintendo would have been screwed over if they had said yes to Sony though. Sony wanted almost all of the software royalties for SNES-CD games and ownership of one of Nintendo's IPs (I think it was Star Fox, but i cant remember for sure). Nintendo would have lost a LOT of money on the deal. Problem was, things were already pretty far along so it pissed off Sony. It was a lose-lose situation for Nintendo
+Broadway JR Nintendo shouldn't have allowed the discussions to go that far. They should have handled it better up to the point where they felt they had to withdraw, as the contract wasn't signed yet. Honestly, not so sure star fox being in the hands of someone else would be a bad thing, considering how nintendo treats it. Regardless, nintendo is still in the game, so is sony, though i'm not a fan of x box. i'm glad to have a us game company like that, but microsoft.......hmmmm.
@@Bjorick They trusted Sony because of their existing history. Nintendo made the mistake of trusting them enough to write the contract. Sony snuck in some clauses that Nintendo didnt catch until later which would have effectively given Sony full ownership over the SNES-CD (including all software royalties). And i was wrong about Star Fox, it was Mario and Zelda, and while they werent demanding full ownership, they were making absurd demands about control of the franchises and publishing them. Even if it were Star Fox though, doubt it would fare much better under Sony. We wouldnt get Star Fox 64 *and* Sony has a bad track record of abandoning IPs
I don’t understand why SOJ didn’t just tell SOA they were developing the Sega Saturn and have them help with it. Rather they decided to keep it a secret for some reason...
I bought the Saturn at launch. I remember them sending me two free games in the mail out of nowhere. A new version of Virtua Fighter, and I think Daytona. I personally loved the system and put a lot of hours on it.
I keep saying though that even though it was a smart and clever way to look cool by saying "299" what he doesn't say is that you didn't get a pack in game and you needed to buy a memory card. So the seemingly huge $100 difference suddenly didn't look as bad after you calculate those factors. But Sega messed up a lot in the mid 90's and it always seemed to be Sega of Japan with the nonsense decisions.
But consumers often judge just from the first number they see, out of context, without first researching any further extra costs. Marketing guys have realized that long ago and use it to their advantage, lol.
Benjamin Dover He also mentioned having to, purchase a game separately? Which would have been about $60 before tax, back then, at least where I lived. A game plus a memory card would have been about $80, which, isn't $100, but it's still an additional cost.
JoeDeceiver LOL I wouldn't bother debating with him if I was you. As Mark Twain said "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".
Dreamcast was definitely the most fun I have ever had with a console. And it trully pushed the other 3 competitors to really push their boundaries too. So although, yeah, Dreamcast was a failure in many ways. It was a success for what it delivered in the industry. Not to mention some of the games were amazing gems such as Shenmue and Jet Set Radio
My 2 first games back in the time were 'Zelda: a link to the past' and 'Super Mario World'. Now it's almost 2020 and I must admit those 2 games are still listed in my Top 10.
If it wasn't for Sony being mishandled by these two well received video game giants Nintendo and Sega, we might not have the amazing PlayStation we all know and love to this very day.
Yeah we'd still have something like it. It would be "instead of" the Saturn or N64 as we know them, but the same developers would have existed so it's safe to say most of the same games would've come out. They'd just be... Different. (Especially if it was Nintendo who stayed with Sony)
I fully believe that the Dreamcast was the only thing they did right after their initial success, but the players and industry was not willing to forgive them for the absurd mistakes from the past. By the time it came out, everyone was over Sega and not willing to give them another chance. It was a great system that no one ever played.
ouch, i didnt know SEGA of Japan turned down Sony, that was a HUGE mistake... another Mistake was the SEGA CD in my opinion, not cause it was a failure, but those games INCLUDING Sonic CD could've been the Saturn's launch lineup, it's a crucial fact that they should've made the fans wait, rather than keep sending add-ons which only weakened the Saturn market further, as fans of SEGA wouldnt have the cash saved up.
No it was not. Sony was NOT interested in doing business with SEGA or partnering up with them. They were trying to EAVESDROP on them so they could STEAL information on SEGA's Next Console. Here's what Actually happened: n July of 1988, Nintendo started development of Super Famicom codenamed Famicom 2. Nintendo at the time had taken heavy interest in acquiring a smaller,cheaper off the shelf design of Apple's 1986 16-bit Home Computer the Apple IIGS, so they contracted Japanese semiconductor Ricoh Silicon Technologies and Sony to come up with a special System on a Chip design of IIGS hardware. Ricoh designed and customized a Single Core 16-bit processor called the A522 which powers the entire architecture of the IIGS hardware on a single processor, Sony in turn was assigned 2nd Party OEM rights to its Motherboard and designed a special Wav. Custom made Sound processor for the Famicom 2(designed to outshine the Brand NEW and cutting edge SEGA Mega Drive console which launched in Japan that Holiday season)). In June of 1990, about several months before Super Famicom's Japanese rollout, Nintendo heard rumors and reports that SEGA was partnering up with Pioneer and JVC to design a CD add on accessory for the Mega Drive(Mega CD or "Sega Project Earth" was kept top secret by SEGA until its public unveiling in April 1991), so naturally they wanted in on the rumored Compact Disc ROM craze that they saw starting with NEC and projected to have a CD add on ready for Super Famicom by 1992, since Sony and Philips developed CD tech together in 1981-1982 and since CD ROM was code developed by Sony,JVC and Philips in 1984-1985, Nintendo figured that it would be much easier to simply approach Sony and ask to help assist in developing the accessory. Here's where things fell apart. Sony in 1990, decided that since they had grown into a Large Corporation(they had purchased Columbia Pictures,Tri Star and CBS Music/Epic BMG from Coca Cola in 1988) that instead of working and partnering with others THEY could pretty much do whatever they wanted. Sony's new Attitude was "We want to Monopolize ANY market we choose" so by that time, Sony was eyeing the video gaming business and instead of wasting time and R&D on building and developing a new home console, they decided to cheat and screw over Nintendo with the newly codenamed "Project Nintendo Play Station". What Sony did was THEY drew up the contract. Adding multiple Clauses in it which gave Sony 80% of control of the add on. On licensing,Manufacturing, Royalties, Profits, while Nintendo would be left with just a measly 20%. Sony was telling Nintendo in early 1991, that THEY were going OWN the add on, it was as if they wanted Nintendo to literally GIVE away the hardware to Sony. Nintendo was certainly furious, and demanded a renegotiation set for the Early Summer of 1991, but unfortunately by then, Sony had another demand intentionally designed to piss off Nintendo, in June 1991, Ken Kutaragi and Hiroshi Yamauchi held a Private Meeting in Kyoto, Kutaragi not only refused to change the demands in the contract, he then BOLDLY flat out proclaimed that Sony should ALSO have the right to design and publish Mario and Zelda games, they were telling Nintendo that THEY were going to handle development of Nintendo's IPs. This was the final straw, Yamauchi dismissed Kutaragi and later called and told him, the deal was off. Nintendo tore up Sony's contract and sent him a Nintendo made contract, giving Nintendo 90% of the rights, with even a JTO Trademark of the prototype "Nintendo Super Famicom CD" and relegated Sony solely to 2nd Party partner only with No ability to license Nintendo IPs for the machine. Kutaragi pretty much discarded the contract, but not before altering it, giving Sony some rights to use the designs and concepts by redrawing them. Nintendo missed this hidden clause snuck in and signed the contract, but not before realizing that the deal with Sony and Nintendo was pretty much dead. Nintendo DROPPED Sony from all 2nd Party duties in November of 1991, the newer batches of Super NES and Super Famicom Motherboards would no longer be handled by Sony, instead Nintendo contracted RICOH to handle ALL motherboards and Sharp as Secondary. The biggest Mistake Nintendo made was they forgot to LEGALLY buy back the designs and concepts and let Sony run off with them. All Nintendo had to do was sue Sony for Patent Infringement and Sony's dreams for PlayStation would have been dead as a doornail. Sony then in August 1991, set up a meeting with SEGA Enterprises,Ltd in Haneda, disguising themselves as an OEM partner, Kutaragi and Sony were actually secretly planning Corporate espionage to STEAL hardware designs,blueprints and concepts of whatever successor of Mega Drive/Genesis that was being planned so they could outdo SEGA in everything technically. The meeting between Sony and SEGA of Japan took place in Early September 1991. It lasted barely 45 minutes before Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard threw Sony, Kutaragi and his Chairboard out of their office. Berating them, Yelling at them and warning them that they would have no qualms about competing against them IF they even decided to launch a video game product of their own. SEGA was PISSED OFF because Sony had claimed to them that could design a cutting edge chipset for SEGA without actually showing or displaying to them any proof of such a claim, no concepts, nothing. Sony just shot their mouth off with claims that couldn't be substantiated and on top of that had asked and begged to have access to SEGA's Arcade tech and specs and motherboards. The only thing SEGA showed Sony was System 32 Arcade Hardware, before telling to go screw themselves and slammed the door in their faces. SEGA of Japan saw RIGHT through Sony. They didn't trust them, wanted NOTHING to do with them and refused to do any business with them they had given JVC full 2nd Party rights to Mega CD. To Sony's complete shock, SEGA were smarter than they thought. The plan to spy and steal hardware from SEGA had backfired, or did it? Sony finally found an opening in the Spring of 1992, when they discovered that SEGA of America functioned differently from SOJ and were often naive. So they CONNED and WEASELED their way into SOA's offices. They concocted an alibi that they had a 2nd Party Negotiations with SOJ going on and(without presenting proof of such a claim) and thus wanted to handle 2nd party duties for Sega CD in America. They then told(LIED) to SOA that they could design and assemble a 3D chipset for SEGA's Project Jupiter, in which SOA blindly let Sony have access to specs,designs,concepts e.t.c, SOA had NO idea that they would be doublecrossed. Sony then LIED and deceived SOA by asking to design hardware for Jupiter with a simple(weak and poorly written) contract with a hidden and sleazy clause: Sony would assist SOA in designing a Jupiter prototype chipset, so as long as they be allowed to develop Sega CD games and handle Sega CD's 2nd Party rights. If they suddenly discontinued it, the hardware would be Sony's. All SEGA had to do to stop this, was consult with SOJ(who would have put licensing and Patent protection on the hardware to prevent Sony from stealing it) but they never did. Sony assured SOA that negotiations of the Jupiter chipset would take place during Early 1993. Sony NEVER fulfilled their end of the bargain and broke their promise.(This was to bide time so that Sony could LOCK down the hardware and collect the licensing rights to it.). So when Early 1993 rolled around and SOJ consulted with SOA's engineering team after sending them a prototype of System 32 based Giga Drive/MARS,, SOA told them all about Sony. SEGA was furious and when JVC found out that Sony was manufacturing Sega CD ILLEGALLY, they took Sony to court and won. So all CD Loading Tray Model 1 Sega CD's were immediately pulled from the Market in the Summer of 1993. SOA found out the hard way that Sony had bamboozled them. Sony never met with them in the Spring of 1993. Instead, Sony started full fledged development of their CD based console "Sony PlayStatio- X". SEGA of Japan had suspected that Sony was planning something. So in Early 1993, they assigned Hideki Sato to begin work on a Top Secret 64-bit powerhouse project codenamed "Aurora". AURORA was going to be Model 2 Arcade based. Its pretty easy to guess what eventually became of Aurora. So you see, Sony SCREWED both SEGA and Nintendo over. If you want to know where Nintendo was monopolistic, it was when Minoru Aikawa was in charge of Nintendo of America.
Correct. Agreed. SEGA of America dropped the ball on the FMV side of Sega CD. TBH, its because they weren't sure what Demographic to market it to or how to properly execute it. And also correct, Mega CD was quite powerful for its time. For instance, PCs didn't use PCM technology or even Mini Polygonal tech yet.
Its funny that Sony did a similar tactic when the ps4 was revealed. It was $100 cheaper than the Xbox One, it was more powerful, and they allowed you to play used games without having that complicated bs system that the Xbox One tried to have
But they also made the same mistake with the PS3 fat models retailing at $599 and $699, no dual shock support and a cell processor that took companies years to understand how to program for. Very similar to the Saturn. The 360 was cheaper, had an optional hard drive attachment, Xbox Live support and retailed much less expensive at $299 I believe. It too nearly the entire generation before Sony recovered and overtook the Xbox 360 in North America.
Sega of Japan: Sony doesn’t know how to make hardware, let alone software (Sony is a hardware company, atleast now. Ouch...) Sony: We’ll show you how bad we are.. >:)
They bought the rights to the playstation from Sega America how had designed it already and were forced by Sega Japan to sell up and focus on selling Japans own console ideas. The console was virtually done and ready to go.
The Japanese are so arrogant and always underestimate their rivals through out history the Japanese have this way of thinking and this is the reason that country can't get ahead and always fail at what they do
I wouldn't say fail at everything. If anything they know they are so far above the rest, but they suffer from lack of humility and modesty. They built quality into almost everything they design. They do however look down on those they deem lesser than themselves and come across sometimes as extremely rude.
By your logic Sega made no mistakes, because all their "mistakes" benefited Nintendo. Because not only did Nintendo acquire the 3D chip, they also benefited from having less competition if Sega failed. Do you have sources that state Nintendo was in financial turmoil after the SNES and needed "saving" and also provide evidence that Nintendo had no alternatives to the SGI chip. As for saving them money, the poor hardware of the Saturn arguably cost Sega hundreds of millions of dollars in the long run and the the closure of the company, since in the era of 3D gaming, they designed a console that is focused on 2D. One of two CPU's and VPU's can't render polygons, that is 50% of the console horsepower. The SGI chip would've cost them $40 and potentially allowed them to fight back after the initial mistakes and set-backs.
Nobody said SEGA didn't make mistakes. If anything, the Aurora Chipset was FAR superior than the Ultra 64 one because both Saturn and Nintendo 64 are pointing and laughing at PS1 in the aging dept. They're games have aged FAR better than PS1. The 3D technology on both consoles was FAR better and superior to PS1's. Also, SEGA not choosing the Ultra 64 ALLOWED Competition. Sony was trying to cockblock and stop Nintendo from moving forward as a console manufacturer by spreading gossip and misinformation to OEM partners. Sony was TRYING to force Nintendo to be unable to have a 5th Generation Console out. If it weren't for SEGA turning down the Ultra 64 chipset, Nintendo 64 would have never been made and Nintendo would have eventually STOPPED making hardware and become a 3rd party publisher for Sony. Its clear you don't understand the schematics of Saturn. It was the most advanced and sophisticated Console of the 5th Gen. Plenty of unused potential and RAW power it packed. Ultra 64 SAVED Nintendo from doom and from Sony's Evil plan to take down BOTH SEGA and Nintendo and completely monopolize the entire gaming industry.
If you believe the Saturn's 3D chip is far superior to the PS1, then you are delusional. Name one racing game on the Saturn that looks better than Racing Lagoon or Colin Mcrae 2. Name your top five best looking Saturn 3D platformers. Like Spyro, Crash, Gex, Rayman, Ape Escape, Tomba etc. Sonic Team had such problems creating a simple 3D Sonic game, that they just gave up. Sega choosing the SGI chip would also have allowed competition with Sega. Sony sabotaged Nintendo? Again, where's the evidence. You are making shit up, show me your sources. Then send your evidence to Nintendo, so they can file a lawsuit against Sony. So what if Nintendo stopped making hardware? Who cares? This video is titled "SEGA's 3 Biggest Mistakes" and I named a mistake they made. It has nothing to do with Nintendo. If you believe that the Saturn is so wonderful... Again, show me the games. Lets say an open world game with the graphical quality of Soul Reaver. You love Nintendo so much so show me a N64 3D game that was released on the Saturn, like Gex 3 or Rayman 2. I understand the schematics of the Saturn more than you, it has more CPU powered combined than the PS1, but that power is directed to the VPU's which are useless for 3D. Again I ask you: Show me the evidence that Nintendo needed saving after the SNES. Also that Sony sabotaged Nintendo. And you can't back-up your original claim that it saved Sega money, even though Sega became bankrupt. You're one of those complete idiots who believe Sony is a evil company that is trying to destroy your childhood? You would rather see Sega fail than Nintendo, because of your feelings I guess. Now defend your original claim "It wasn't a mistake. It saved them money and SAVED Nintendo as a company." and prove to me that you can at least argue a point. Also stop capitalizing some words mid-sentence, It makes you look like a moron.
As a Sega Kid I was devastated when Sega said they wouldn't be making consoles anymore. Being a kid I never knew the full story of the downfall of the company but now I know thanks Norm! This was an amazing video and some great Content!
Well one of many blunders for the Saturn: no real Sonic game. The delays and eventual cancellation of Sonic Xtreme. Sonic was a big part of the Genesis' success after all.
Xtreme was never meant for the Saturn. At all. There WAS a Saturn exclusive title in development during Early 1996 called "Sonic Pool/Sonic Saturn". Alas, STI and Bernie Stolar ordered it cancelled.
I still remember the sneak-release of the Saturn like it was yesterday. i walked into my local Software Etc. and there was a television playing Panzer Dragoon. I stood and watched it for a while thinking it was a videotape. Eventually I asked the guy behind the counter if it was a tape since it wasn't looping and he was like, "Oh, no. It's running on a Saturn." I was like, "You... HAVE a Saturn?" And he's like, "Yeah, we have plenty of them." And there it was on the shelf just sitting there, all 399-y. It was the weirdest feeling. Like walking itno someplace you know you should't be. It was like if you walked into Gamestop tomorrow and there was a PS5 just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. It was THAT weird.
Like almost stepping into the future? I was in Elementary school when the Saturn came out, and I didn't find out until many years later that there was so much....controversy surrounding it. I remember when Sonic Jam was announced, I really wanted it and a Saturn (despite the fact that I already had all four Genesis games sitting on my shelf, but Sonic World was mesmerizing to me, at that time). I got a Saturn for Christmas '97 + Sonic Jam and Sonic 3D Blast. I remember my parents saying that the guy at Funcoland was saying weird things, when they asked for a Saturn. Saying stuff like "I dunno if you wanna do that. I don't think it's gonna be around much longer". Now it all makes sense. The Saturn was almost on life support, and support (ha!) for it was ceasing. It's crazy looking back on all this.
I loved my Saturn. Allot of my favorite games are Sega Saturn games. It's a shame that Sega bungled the marketing on it so badly. Oh and having to buy that expensive memory module to save my Dragon Force games was a serious kick in the teeth.
Hey this isn't the Tetris episode! Unfortunately I had to put that episode on hold. I'm waiting on assets and approval of some footage. Rather than sit around and wait, here is a new episode! This is a good subject and encourages discussion, so please be respectful when commenting. Have a great weekend!
Hey Norman! Maybe you should do a episode focused on the Atari Jaguar someday :-) There's A LOT of cool & unknown tidbits about it :-D
Gaming Historian WHAT ABOUT BERNIE STOLAR??? HELLO?????? biggest sega mistake in history.
The CrisGamer No worries man I know that will be worth the wait! This episode was still great so thanks!
Gaming Historian I'm just happy you're making more videos :D
Gaming Historian your awsome, can you make another pacman episode
SEGA's biggest mistake: SEGA japan vs SEGA America.
SEGA's internal and intercontinental war doomed SEGA itself.
It also didn't help, that at one point they were stretch so thing. They were supporting the SMS, the GG, the Genesis, the SEGA CD, and the 32X, AND trying to do R&D on top of all of that.
No. Sega's biggest mistake....
Was not making a second model Dreamcast with a movie player.
Yep. It's historically accepted that the AMERICAN STAFF knows what's going on with the industry better than the JAPANESE STAFF. Exact same thing happened with NES > Mario franchise early on (Mario 2 debacle). Holy cow... ;/ Similar crap happened with the XBOX launch didn't it (but in reverse)?
That my friend what we call civil wars, no wonder sega cannot win nintendo, coz their own company cannot unite as one
Agreed. If the original had had a DVD player, it would have been a massive hit. It was the first mainstream machine offering internet access outta the box. A lot of us didnt have a P.C back then so with the emerging internet on the horizon in the late 90s and extremely limited phone access (remember WAP!?) the playstation would have lost the long race on that one for sure.
Man imagine having a rivalry with yourself.
If it was like Nintendo then the Japanese suits were very out of touch with audience
Coaster Boi hello me meet the real me : Megadeth says.
A house devided shall not stand
@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur yep
Ego
Sega's mistakes all seem to boil down to one big mistake: their obsession to beat Nintendo in the Japanese market. If Sega had fully capitalized on their successes outside of Japan, and paid more attention to what their American counterparts were saying, they may have done better in the long run.
Yeah, nintendo recognized the potential of the international market and went hard on it while Sega of Japan was trapped trying to reach nintendo
The important part is that nintendo never launch a add on for the SNES or Super Famicom to "potencialized" the console, you may think what about Satellaview. Well it was no problem due to the lack of interest of japan going with sega, and Nintendo although a little bit late of the next generation in america the console was selling well outselling Sega at the end of the generation. the only thing we can call add on was the games itself remember they used special chips instead a like i said an add on.
tbf, the Saturn did beat the N64 in Japan
All except the 32X however, since the Saturn sold more in America than the 32X did worldwide.
That thing should never have left the concept stage.
If SEGA headquarter was built in California instead of Hawaii, then SEGA would be 100% american instead of being 50% japanese and 50% american
$399 was absolutely devastating in the 90's.
The Saturn reminds me of the PS3 fiasco.
Man the Wii and 360 fans forming a united front to tear that 600$ apart was fucking amazing. Brought a tear to my eye.
$675!?!?!? In today’s money
It also didn't help that the PS3 was just about as hard to program as the Saturn was, though in different ways.
@Daniel Callahan Yep, because Sega was planning to quietly drop it entirely.
Fernando Govea *$678
I worked at Funcoland during all of this. Another big hit against the Saturn was the memory cart slot in the back of the console. General consumers believed it was there for Genesis backwards compatibility. When they unfortunately discovered it wasn't, they returned the system in mass numbers. I'll never forget that.
Huh. Interesting.
Jay Lucien I remember being in middle school and all the kids thought that’s what it was for too and that it could also play 32X games.
Jay Lucien Hahaha. I mean, it would've made sense so I understand the confusion amongst average consumers. I'm instantly reminded of how I missed out on the entirety of the 16-bit generation, because Dad thought it was stupid that the "new nintendo" wouldn't play his old Nintendo games, lmao. My next system would be the Saturn, then N64. I wouldn't experience the glory of SNES until the romsplosion of the late 90's.
Yess 85 I’m not quite sure what this comment is supposed to mean. But, no, emulating wasn’t a thing back then. Even if your computer was supposedly powerful enough to emulate a genesis game, where would you get them? There wasn’t really a such thing as “the internet” back then.
Yess 85 Wow, are you 12?
So this is how summarize SEGA's downfall:
SEGA of America: "Hey, look! I have this cool idea!"
Japan: "No, that's dumb"
To be fair it was Sega of America's idea for the 32x addon, which was the start of their downfall.
@@JazzMartian I'd say it's more of Japan's fault because they told them to make a 32-bit Genesis when they were already working on the Saturn.
A simple "Hold on, the next-gen console is already in development" wouldn't have hurt.
@@llSuperSnivyll I've always understood that the 32bit Genesis was the Saturn, which is what should have been the focus.
@@JazzMartian agreed. Besides, it was a CD-based console. Without Nintendo being a child about keeping games on cartridge, third party game devs would have flocked around Saturn (except, Sega of Japan insulted Sony)
.
P.S: I think Sega of America had more brains (and ability to take calculated risks) than Sega of Japan, who took decisions mostly out of nervousness and a bad attitude.
@@JazzMartian it wasn't the 32x on its own. The 32x could've had a much better library at launch and done better but the Saturn made the company seem greedy in the eye of the consumer and that's never good from a business standpoint. So it was a combination of a lack of business acumen on both sides. Neither side can take full blame. They both lacked communication skills within their own fuckin company. If the two sides can't get on the same page you can't blame one side more than the other. Especially when America was only doing what Japan wanted them to do in the first place. Japan thought the consumer would view the Saturn as an upgraded 32x. And that's because they had incompetent people running the company.
Anyone wanna play some Ecco?
"Sony doesn't know how to make gaming consoles" most regrettable comment in history.
How ironic, huh? The Playstation 2 turned out to be my favorite console, even today.
Ps2 was sensational. A gazillion games to choose from.
At least they said it before the age of memes.
sony is a bastard of a company that has no respect for it's buyers. and while the later PS machines were good, the early ones broke if you breathed on them, most returns and trade ins ever.
@@RosettaAllen lol calm yourself down there.
I think that Sega's biggest mistake was not to give Tom Kalinske full control over business decisions regarding North American market area. The man was a genius.
He was too good for Sega. They don't deserve him.
I mean his the reason the sega genesis didn’t fail in america
Bernie Stolar played a part in Sega's downfall also
@@beelzeboss9631 Eh, that’s a diversion.
Hell no
Man, the lead of Sega Japan was horrible at making decisions.
Lugmillord That is giving them an extreme amount of generosity.
Lugmillord t
Especially that hair
And that's why he's not president anymore.
To be fair, Nintendo of Japan makes just as many stupid mistakes. Must be a Japanese business thing. That's what happens when old men run a corporation, thinking they know what's right for the younger generations.
The Sega Saturn blunder.... Hard to believe that wasn't intentional. You can't make up stupidity that bad.
Remember the XBox One's inagural E3 presentation? Sony knows brutality.
Chaos89P Microsoft made the Xbox One. Not Sony!
Andrew Del Pilar What I'm talking about is that Sony's press conference after Microsoft's was particularly brutal. I didn't watch it myself, but I heard that Microsoft's press conference announcing the XBox One was painful to watch. Nothing but "Sports, sports, sports, sports. TV, TV, TV. Inane DRM. etc." with no mention of games coming out exclusively for the system, and then Sony ripped them up the next day with their announcement of the PS4. I saw that.
My favorite part of the Sony announcement is how they showed off sharing games.
it was friking hilarious
My thoughts exactly Lindsey. The 32X was a perfect cartridge based system to keep up with the cartridge based Nintendo 64. All SEGA needed was a Sonic game. We could have never seen Saturn in the West and it would have probably saved SEGA. We were going to get the Neptune, the full blown 32X console.
Imagine an alternate timeline where SEGA and Sony are just one, big, blue technological/gaming juggernaut against Nintendo.
SEGA kinda accidentally helped Nintendo survive through that generation...
I think there's a good chance that if the N64 had been a CD based console the PS1 would have ultimately died and Nintendo might have accidentally saved Sega.
@@58jharris But had Nintendo agreed with Sony and made a CD ROM attachment for the Super NES, they would've compete against the Sega CD.
@@58jharris I highly doubt it. PS1 had so many must own exclusives, and that wasn't due to being cd vs cartridge. Plus, PS1 had a huge head start and by the time N64 released, already had a good number of those exclusives. As I mentioned above, just having a head start doesn't do much if fans are willing to wait. Having great games and a head start creates that advantage.
@@mattm7798 No it was because the N64 used cartridges. That caused a lot of third party developers to abandon Nintendo and say nay to the platform. Many of those exclusives you're referring to would have doubtless been N64 games otherwise. The most infamous example is Square and Final Fantasy 7. That was originally going to be an N64 game but Square went to Sony because they decided they wanted it on CD to make the game bigger and more expansive. That game alone sold a lot of PS1's, sales that could and should have gone to the N64.
@@58jharris Probably. Nintendo had the most powerful console, a huge name and a bunch of must have exclusive franchises (they also had Rare's support). If it wasn't for those damn cartridges, Nintendo would have gathered third party support and smashed Sony into a oblivion!
The funny thing is that Sega only left the market because of Sony and Microsoft only entered in it because of the PlayStation. So, if it wasn't for this chaotic moment, the videogame world would be completely different!
"Sony doesn't know how to make hardware" ~ Sega of Japan.
Neither did Atari but that didn't prevent Sega of Japan from being scared of the Atari Jaguar.
Quack Watch
Nakayama meant video game hardware, not hardware in general.
biggest mistake make sony upset twice and you get dead
OOH, sick burn!
Quack Watch Still are Apple and Samsung and LG are for losers
@@GamingDelight - To be fair, Nakayama's comment was based on the simple fact that Sony had never tried to make game hardware before, not that they'd tried and failed. I'm pretty sure that he would have said exactly the same thing about Microsoft (Xbox) and NEC (PC-Engine/TG16).
That "299" speech is awesome. Sometimes you can say the most by saying very little.
12 years later in 2006: 599 US dollars
a great moment but sadly Sony didn't learn anything from Sega's Mistake, they did the same thing with the PS2.
@@mattym8038 Bad example, the PS2 is the best selling console in history.
@@mattym8038 I think you meant PS3, not 2.
@@mattym8038 Haha, you have no clue what you're talking about. The PS2 sold 155 million units before they stopped publishing sales, which was still a good year before it was discontinued.
I think Sega's biggest mistake is they absolutely HATE delaying games.
As Shigeru Miyamoto said "a late game can be turned good, a bad game is bad forever"
I heard a famous director say the same about movies (can't remember his name right now) but it's totally true. A late product can be turned good, but a bad product is bad forever. Wish more people took this approach instead of blindly focusing on only meeting budgets and deadlines. You can meet your budget, meet your deadline, and still put out absolute trash. It's not an automatic cause for celebration like a lot of studios act like now.
Some people would argue "Duke Nukem Forever" but they don't know the full history of DNF, which essentially was a guy who wanted everything to be in the game and the project restarted 4-5 times.
+Evan Clapham
not only with ET and Pacman, but also with Driv3r
TheDragonman415 Sonic mania and Sonic boom 06 forces 4 ep 1
Deathbrewer is it jackie chan?
He did say stuff like "Its good to invest many times onto a movie,because when it out,it was there to audience to see forever.
If you rush to create a bad product,it is bad forever"
I always imagine the CEO of Sega of Japan as a fat demon with a suit, and the CEO of Sega of America as a hip 90s skateboard kid with a backwards cap.
If 90’s Sega was an anime...
In then end Sega of JPN was acting Nintendoish.
So basically Eggman and Sonic?
@Flashback Guy So basically Reggie?
Both are idiots!
Moral of the story: Finish late prepared rather than early unprepared......or roll with Sony when they ask you for your help
Sony can betray Sega anytime you know..
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" - _Shigeru Miyamoto_
yea lol
Electronic Gaming Monthly said Sega screwed up by not having a clear direction. Nintendo won because they think things through. But at the same time, Nintendo lost for think too much on a easy path, since they stayed with cartridges for the N64 while Sony kicked their butts with the CD based PlayStation.
Or just don't crap on an ally as big as Sony and expect there to be no repercussions. How dumb.
One correction, roughly 4 retailers were selling the Saturn in May 1995 (Software Etc, EB Games, Babbage's, and Toys R Us). Most of the large retailers were also left out. Walmart was so furious that they discontinued selling Sega products from their stores, which was the biggest blow for the Saturn in my eyes.
jesus, talk about short sighted to ignore Walmart and possibly other big retailers of the time (Not sure Best Buy's marketshare at the time)
Because it wasn't an actual launch. It was a BOTCHED Test Market Trial Release.
The first place I saw the Saturn was at Sears in the mall.
joelggundam Uuuummmm you do realize GameStop was not even around at that time right . It was Funcoland that was the big & really only major gaming store at the time
ragejinraver
Oops, I meant Software Etc...
And Funcoland was also left out.
Great episode as always Norm! I had no idea that both Nintendo AND Sega had a hand in creating their biggest rivals. Unbelievable.
Matthew Hughes I think you will happen to find that it is more common than you think
Matthew Hughes I didn't know that either. Thanks Nintendo and Sega for making one of my all time favorite gaming console...which turned into four. Seriously, I've never ran into a bad PlayStation. I fell in love with all four of them. On top of that the PlayStation gave us the home port of Tekken. My all time favorite fighting series. Even though my PS3 died on me years ago, I still keep it around hoping to get it fixed...and stay fixed.
It's so dramatic honestly. It's like something out from a movie or book. Nintendo and Sega, the two biggest video game companies in the world at that time, unknowingly gave birth to their biggest rival ever: the Sony PlayStation.
Sony made this mistake too. They fkat out refused to give samsung and LG (of korea) triniton for thier TVs. Which led to thouse 2 developing thier own tech. Now look at samsung and LG's display sales compared to sony. HA!
"But, Sega of Japan was in charge."
The reason of Sega's downfall.
racist
@@rubberchix Excuse me what
@@rubberchix context?
@@rubberchix did you watch the video?
@@rubberchix wut?
Should be called "3 Ways Sega of Japan's Ego got in the way"
You're lucky you're hot. I'm as hot as my pic too. Let's make out. =p
@@-flike--kiniar-4457 this man really picking up girls on youtube lmaoooo
payne hotline lol
apparently Japanese companies tend to have ego issues, and this almost caused Sony to fail at the PS3. They were arrogant because the PS2 was so successful.
Agreed, Segas #1 mistake over confidence.
I've said for years that Sega's most dangerous foe was never Nintendo, but rather Sega themselves. its that old bit about how a house divided cannot stand.
The same goes for Nitnendo, who shot themselves in the foot with cartridges for the N64 and a complicated archetecture and controller.
I've always said that Sony never really beat MS or Nintendo. They just won by not doing anything drastically different than what the industry was offering at the the time. Sega and MS were both entertainment companie sthat nkew that growing the industry required risk. Sony has, until virtual reality, never really even tried to grow the indsutry or psuh it forward.
+JazGalaxy The cartridge format wasn't a terrible idea, as it did provide the advantage of much faster load times; and while I do hate the general design of the N64 Controller, I do have to give it props for the analog stick, which provided a massive control advantage for 3D movement over the Playstation and Saturn controllers.
Really? I loved the N64 controller, but it appears that most did not, so I guess I'm the odd man out...
*+JazGalaxy* The N64 was a genius design. If 3D games failed, you could immediately readjust to a 2D standard, assuming Nintendo decided to make 2D games instead of 3D. And the joystick would remain for those that want 3D. How can anyone call that a bad design? The only _bad_ thing about it is the joystick itself.
You HAVE always said that!
The 32X version of Doom was the first version I ever played. Sooooo bad. Chaotix was great, though.
You're lucky. I was stuck with the SNES version of Doom. :)
I first played Doom on a 90mhz Packard bell PC, when I seen the 32x version I was like wtf is this shit?
@@NintendoDude888 Chaotix' is very underrated
@@Doom2pro That was the only way to play DOOM! The 32x add-on was fuckin lame and down played it's edginess.
@@NintendoDude888 fu** you its great you made a huge mistake,you stupid,you should see that some lost characters were there
I always wondered why Sega came out with so many systems and add on systems in such a short period of time. It did make them seem greedy and ruined their loyal fan base. I was always a fan of the Genesis because they had so many great games. It seems they just didn’t have a clear plan on how they were going to take their consoles into the gaming future.
Richard: Sega was horribly run. They made stop gap hardware like the CD & 32X and failed to make sequels from the popular Genesis games onto the Saturn. Most obvious shown by the canceled Sonic Xtreme
Several of the best Saturn games didn't even reach The West, Stolar dismissed JRPGs giving PS1 a monopoly over them. Trust me Saturn's Failure wasn't just the lack of sequels. So much went wrong, although some of the Saturn Games were real gems that never got proper support like Genesis Greats did. At least Dreamcast learned from both mistakes & sold hard on that Crane Simulator named Shenmue & gave us Jojo's Bizarre Adventure in addition to Sonic Adventure.
it's basically because they wanted to keep the Genesis alive
@@WaterKirby1994 which is why I consider hiring Bernard Stolar Sega's biggest mistake.
I was turned off by it for sure. Safer to just avoid the company that makes us buy a new system every 2 years.
Tom Kalinske made the Genesis successful so what the hell were they thinking in not listening to him after the success?!
SEGA of Japan DID listen.
Isao Okawa and SEGA's Parent Company CSK DID NOT.
@@Tornado1994 Thanks for the clarification, I had no idea about that
They (sega jp) "knew better", despite him taking sega from 75M $ valued company to 3.5billion in just 4years.
@@adrianhetmanski1832 Damn that is crazy. He really is a smart man.
@@ryannuget7164 The guy was definitely good, he worked for Mattel for a long time and knew what kids liked in NA, he revived the Barbie in US and helped launch Masters of the Universe toy line, after he left Sega in '96, Sega sadly nearly bankrupted themselves by 2000, mostly because they spent so much money on 32X, Saturn (and all the crazy versions of it in JP), also because they failed to include a BlueRay with Dreamcast (which people loved), but once Sony announced PS2 was using BR it was all over, all developers & customers bailed over to Sony. At least Sega's still around making games, it would have been terrible to loose them.
"Many of them were rushed through production'
So sad that game companies still haven't learned their lesson.
Yes they have. Endless microtransactions.
And gig sized patches
I guess now they can rush because we can patch? Nope game developers...NO
Blizzard did... until Activision bought them out, then they did a 180.
as miyamoto has said "a delayed game will eventually be good, a rushed game will for ever be bad. "
@@Daidan0 When did he say that?
Sounds to me like Sega's number one problem was that Sega of Japan was in charge and making worst business decisions.
Sega of America made some terrible decisions, too. The Saturn had a good library of excellent RPGs in Japan that the American president refused to bring over, saying essentially that RPGs wouldn't do well in the US and that we wanted more sports games.
But yeah, Sega Japan made some terrible decisions. The decision to do the 32x when the Saturn was already in the planning stages was absolutely bonkers. The constant infighting between Sega Japan and America also made zero sense, at times the fighting got so bad you'd think you were looking at two completely different companies rather than two branches of the same company.
They refused to listen to their US and UK people and it cost them dearly.
Yes and no. It's important to remember that back then, in the pre-internet era, Japan and America might as well have been different planets.
Sega didn't really understand or know what to do with the success of the Genesis in the USA. The "Sega is the system with attitude" marketing didn't really make any sense to the Japanese because that's a distinctly American thing. And "Genesis is the sports console" also made no sense to them because they didn't care about US sports or Electronic Arts.
Yeah, Sega Japan refused to listen to anything America had to say, thinking they always knew better. Sega Japan fought hard against America's suggestion of bundling Sonic with the Genesis to get it to sell better. It's true that Japan didn't at all understand the culture behind America's "attitude" marketing, but that shouldn't have mattered. It worked for the US, so they should've put more faith in their American team members that they knew what they were talking about when they said decisions that Japan was making would hurt sales in the US.
DJ Kidna, It takes a LOT to convince someone that their insticts are wrong. Especailly when it goes so far against what they believe they intrinsically know. My brother's wife works fo ra cosmetic company that does business in Japan. They frequently have difficult times understanding western cosmetics, specifically products used to make white people darker. In Japan, the only toning product they could even conceive of is one that makes people lighter. No matter how much research they are presetend with, they almost outright refuse that anybody would buy a product that makes them darker.
Sega Japan didn't know their own markets.
It showed and it hurt them. The US side knew the markets entirely. They knew what was would work. The Japanese side was just too complacent and stagnated.
SEGA of America killed the Saturn. There were tons of great games in Japan, but Bernie Stolar wouldn't localize them because he didn't want any "weird Japanese games" on the Saturn.
@@madhatter8508 The Saturn was dead in the water and nothing was going to change that. Probably the most playable 5th gen console in the present day but it's cross platform 3D efforts were mostly an embarrassment.
@@supersexysega The Saturn outsold the PlayStation in Japan from 1994 to 1997. It was dead on arrival in North America because it launched early, thereby alienating retailers, developers, and customers in one fell swoop. The Saturn had over 1200+ games in Japan and enjoyed enormous 3rd party support and a ton of hit games that Sega of America refused to localize. Sega of America under Bernie Stolar deliberately killed the Saturn because they were trying to force SOJ to release the Dreamcast early. Sega still made a profit with the Saturn despite Sega of America's failures, but what did they get with the Dreamcast? Three straight years of losses. Sega of America didn't know their own ass from a hole in the ground.
@@madhatter8508 I am well aware the Saturn did extremely well in Japan and it took Final Fantasy 7 to put the PSX over the top in Japan. By the time Stolar said the Saturn isn't our future the system was so far dead no one cared. Sega of Japan cost the Genesis tons of sales in the holiday season of 95'. They were 300,000 Genesis units short of demand because they were so focused on making sure the Saturn was manufactured. Not to mention the Sega of Japan commissioned 32x to shit on all the great Genesis software in late 94' into 95'
At the end of the day Sega of Japan should have done what was best for their market and let Sega of America do what was best for the Western market. The Saturn regardless of its success in Japan was a huge failure worldwide. I personally love the Saturn doesn't make it a complete trainwreck though.
RetroCoreGaming: sega JP never grasoed the success that their foreign partners achieved. It was never that successful in Japan becauae they (the headquarters in JP) werent very good.
#2 is an important element in the Sony Playstation story. It wasn't just "revenge on Nintendo," it was their response to the video game industry as a whole.
right but that was a pitch, so people say these stuff to appeal.
Sony PlayStation is a big LIE. Sony cheated Nintendo out of the Super Famicom CD add on deal to get the designs and patents on them ,and they deceived and TRICKED SEGA of America into letting them design a chipset for the upcoming Sega Jupiter 32-bit Console, only then to STEAL the chipset right under SOA's noses.
Tornado1994 well, apparently the reason Nintendo backed out was because they realized the contract would give sony full rights to their Ips to the point that they could release their own system without Nintendo and still use characters like mario and link =b
That is 100% Correct. Sony drew up shady clauses in their Contract with Nintendo's CD add on. Giving Sony 80% control off] it and would allow SONY to make Mario and Zelda games.
n July of 1988, Nintendo started development of Super Famicom codenamed Famicom 2. Nintendo at the time had taken heavy interest in acquiring a smaller,cheaper off the shelf design of Apple's 1986 16-bit Home Computer the Apple IIGS, so they contracted Japanese semiconductor Ricoh Silicon Technologies and Sony to come up with a special System on a Chip design of IIGS hardware. Ricoh designed and customized a Single Core 16-bit processor called the A522 which powers the entire architecture of the IIGS hardware on a single processor, Sony in turn was assigned 2nd Party OEM rights to its Motherboard and designed a special Wav. Custom made Sound processor for the Famicom 2(designed to outshine the Brand NEW and cutting edge SEGA Mega Drive console which launched in Japan that Holiday season)).
In June of 1990, about several months before Super Famicom's Japanese rollout, Nintendo heard rumors and reports that SEGA was partnering up with Pioneer and JVC to design a CD add on accessory for the Mega Drive(Mega CD or "Sega Project Earth" was kept top secret by SEGA until its public unveiling in April 1991), so naturally they wanted in on the rumored Compact Disc ROM craze that they saw starting with NEC and projected to have a CD add on ready for Super Famicom by 1992, since Sony and Philips developed CD tech together in 1981-1982 and since CD ROM was code developed by Sony,JVC and Philips in 1984-1985, Nintendo figured that it would be much easier to simply approach Sony and ask to help assist in developing the accessory.
Here's where things fell apart. Sony in 1990, decided that since they had grown into a Large Corporation(they had purchased Columbia Pictures,Tri Star and CBS Music/Epic BMG from Coca Cola in 1988) that instead of working and partnering with others THEY could pretty much do whatever they wanted. Sony's new Attitude was "We want to Monopolize ANY market we choose" so by that time, Sony was eyeing the video gaming business and instead of wasting time and R&D on building and developing a new home console, they decided to cheat and screw over Nintendo with the newly codenamed "Project Nintendo Play Station".
What Sony did was THEY drew up the contract. Adding multiple Clauses in it which gave Sony 80% of control of the add on. On licensing,Manufacturing, Royalties, Profits, while Nintendo would be left with just a measly 20%. Sony was telling Nintendo in early 1991, that THEY were going OWN the add on, it was as if they wanted Nintendo to literally GIVE away the hardware to Sony.
Nintendo was certainly furious, and demanded a renegotiation set for the Early Summer of 1991, but unfortunately by then, Sony had another demand intentionally designed to piss off Nintendo, in June 1991, Ken Kutaragi and Hiroshi Yamauchi held a Private Meeting in Kyoto, Kutaragi not only refused to change the demands in the contract, he then BOLDLY flat out proclaimed that Sony should ALSO have the right to design and publish Mario and Zelda games, they were telling Nintendo that THEY were going to handle development of Nintendo's IPs.
This was the final straw, Yamauchi dismissed Kutaragi and later called and told him, the deal was off. Nintendo tore up Sony's contract and sent him a Nintendo made contract, giving Nintendo 90% of the rights, with even a JTO Trademark of the prototype "Nintendo Super Famicom CD" and relegated Sony solely to 2nd Party partner only with No ability to license Nintendo IPs for the machine.
Kutaragi pretty much discarded the contract, but not before altering it, giving Sony some rights to use the designs and concepts by redrawing them. Nintendo missed this hidden clause snuck in and signed the contract, but not before realizing that the deal with Sony and Nintendo was pretty much dead.
Nintendo DROPPED Sony from all 2nd Party duties in November of 1991, the newer batches of Super NES and Super Famicom Motherboards would no longer be handled by Sony, instead Nintendo contracted RICOH to handle ALL motherboards and Sharp as Secondary. The biggest Mistake Nintendo made was they forgot to LEGALLY buy back the designs and concepts and let Sony run off with them. All Nintendo had to do was sue Sony for Patent Infringement and Sony's dreams for PlayStation would have been dead as a doornail.
Sony then in August 1991, set up a meeting with SEGA Enterprises,Ltd in Haneda, disguising themselves as an OEM partner, Kutaragi and Sony were actually secretly planning Corporate espionage to STEAL hardware designs,blueprints and concepts of whatever successor of Mega Drive/Genesis that was being planned so they could outdo SEGA in everything technically.
The meeting between Sony and SEGA of Japan took place in Early September 1991. It lasted barely 45 minutes before Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard threw Sony, Kutaragi and his Chairboard out of their office. Berating them, Yelling at them and warning them that they would have no qualms about competing against them IF they even decided to launch a video game product of their own.
SEGA was PISSED OFF because Sony had claimed to them that could design a cutting edge chipset for SEGA without actually showing or displaying to them any proof of such a claim, no concepts, nothing. Sony just shot their mouth off with claims that couldn't be substantiated and on top of that had asked and begged to have access to SEGA's Arcade tech and specs and motherboards. The only thing SEGA showed Sony was System 32 Arcade Hardware, before telling to go screw themselves and slammed the door in their faces.
SEGA of Japan saw RIGHT through Sony. They didn't trust them, wanted NOTHING to do with them and refused to do any business with them they had given JVC full 2nd Party rights to Mega CD. To Sony's complete shock, SEGA were smarter than they thought. The plan to spy and steal hardware from SEGA had backfired, or did it?
Sony finally found an opening in the Spring of 1992, when they discovered that SEGA of America functioned differently from SOJ and were often naive. So they CONNED and WEASELED their way into SOA's offices. They concocted an alibi that they had a 2nd Party Negotiations with SOJ going on and(without presenting proof of such a claim) and thus wanted to handle 2nd party duties for Sega CD in America. They then told(LIED) to SOA that they could design and assemble a 3D chipset for SEGA's Project Jupiter, in which SOA blindly let Sony have access to specs,designs,concepts e.t.c, SOA had NO idea that they would be doublecrossed.
Sony then LIED and deceived SOA by asking to design hardware for Jupiter with a simple(weak and poorly written) contract with a hidden and sleazy clause: Sony would assist SOA in designing a Jupiter prototype chipset, so as long as they be allowed to develop Sega CD games and handle Sega CD's 2nd Party rights. If they suddenly discontinued it, the hardware would be Sony's.
All SEGA had to do to stop this, was consult with SOJ(who would have put licensing and Patent protection on the hardware to prevent Sony from stealing it) but they never did. Sony assured SOA that negotiations of the Jupiter chipset would take place during Early 1993. Sony NEVER fulfilled their end of the bargain and broke their promise.(This was to bide time so that Sony could LOCK down the hardware and collect the licensing rights to it.).
So when Early 1993 rolled around and SOJ consulted with SOA's engineering team after sending them a prototype of System 32 based Giga Drive/MARS,, SOA told them all about Sony. SEGA was furious and when JVC found out that Sony was manufacturing Sega CD ILLEGALLY, they took Sony to court and won. So all CD Loading Tray Model 1 Sega CD's were immediately pulled from the Market in the Summer of 1993.
SOA found out the hard way that Sony had bamboozled them. Sony never met with them in the Spring of 1993. Instead, Sony started full fledged development of their CD based console "Sony PlayStatio- X".
SEGA of Japan had suspected that Sony was planning something. So in Early 1993, they assigned Hideki Sato to begin work on a Top Secret 64-bit powerhouse project codenamed "Aurora". AURORA was going to be Model 2 Arcade based. Its pretty easy to guess what eventually became of Aurora.
So you see, Sony SCREWED both SEGA and Nintendo over. If you want to know where Nintendo was monopolistic, it was when Minoru Aikawa was in charge of Nintendo of America.
Playstation isnt a monopoly, lmao
I was 100% sega loyal. I bought the 32X and the Sega CD. When I saw the price and release time of the Saturn for the first time it gave me pause. I had a conversation with and employee about the forthcoming Sony Playstation and he filled me in on all of the titles that were launching with the Playstation. After getting burned on the 32X, it did not take long before I switched my deposit on the Saturn to Sony and I never looked back.
Sega 32X was awful. It was doomed from the start. Trying to make a stop gap between the Genesis & the Saturn was a horrible idea. They clearly didnt learm from the Sega CDs failure
@@vulcanraven9701 100% true but the main reason it was awful was because they basically did not support it and killed it after so short a time frame.
@@FCT70 but its also hard to sell something when the next gen console comes out in JP around same time as 32X comes out. Stop gaps, add ons, etc never pan out
@@vulcanraven9701 Agreed, but that isn't the way it was marketed.
@Jonathan Rich that’s just wrong on so many levels.
1) Sega of Japan
2) Sega of Japan
3) Sega of Japan
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Why?
Why?
Why?
Sega Enterprises,Ltd in the 80s and 90s was 100% Controlled by CSK Holdings, its Parent Company.
SOJ had ZERO corporate power or say. CSK was the one making ill advised business decisions.
1) Sonic 2006
2) Sonic and The Black Knight
3) Sonic Boom
Tornado1994, he's right. The downfall of Sega is mostly Sega of Japan's fault. Read the 'Console Wars' book by Blake J Harris, it goes into some detail over what happened and 90% of it was all SoJ's incompetence.
I was so pissed when I bought a Saturn instead of a playstation, in no time games fell off and playstation rocketed through the roof
Well that's a weird way of thinking considering the Saturn is, at least for arcade lovers, clearly the far superior system in terms of hardware (also as far as ergonomics go). Many of the games hold up to this day. Take imports into account and it crushes the PS1. Nowadays it's also expensive and it still can't be emulated well whereas the PS1 can be played on android so...you made the right choice (imho). I did too and like(d) Sega and arcade stuff so I may be biased but yeah... Shame Sega fucked themselves out of the race.
I was in the same boat. Being Sega fans, my family bought the Saturn at launch. Being $400 there was no way we were going to buy another system after that purchase. The gamble was a huge bust and I remember being jealous of all my friends with their N64s and PS1s. That said there were a few really good Saturn games I have fond memories of. I also remember renting the 32X from Blockbuster Video to try it out because we didn't see the point of buying it with the Saturn coming.
@@TBirdKris agreed the ps1 had alot of great games that started franchises and I didn't own the n64 at the time as well because I was only 10 years old we or should I say I could not just go out and buy two systems lol but I respect the games that came out on n64 too
Me too ! My brother came home with one and i was impressed when he popped in NFL Gameday. It was so much better than Madden and Joe Montana Football. Sold my Saturn and bought one myself.
Well the Saturn did have some gems like Panzer Dragon Saga and Guardian Heroes.
Heck, even with that grainy footage, you could tell how nervous Kalinske was making that surprise announcement.
Tom Kalinske knew that this announcement will sink any credibility SEGA had left, but there was little he could do about it since SEGA of Japan was calling the shots and by 1997 he left the sinking ship called SEGA
Nakayama killed Sega...freakin shame. I miss the old Sega. If only they had partnered with Sony, they could of been the biggest name in the industry.
The people responsible for the conception,approval,marketing and distribution of PS1 deserve a medal.
This was by far the most insane, bold and impossible move back in the real console wars days.
the original founder was an idiot though
I think another huge blunder was the no RPG policy... During the post-FF7 RPG boom in North America. Saturn exclusives like Grandia and the Lunar remakes were ported over to PSone, and those versions would be the only versions released in NA
Sony had a no-RPG policy in the US, as well, until FFVII hit. (The only exceptions were Beyond The Beyond, Wild Arms and Suikoden because they used 3D in a way Sony approved of).
@@JazGalaxy And, of course, it was the same guy behind both policies, Bernie Stolar. The fact is the PSOne sales were not that solid until he was out, and then he goes to Sega and implements the same policies high were even worse for a system that had such a wealth of RPGs to localize. I'm guessing Sega thought they wanted to recapture the cool factor that the PS1 had grabbed from them after they forced Kalinsky out as the fall guy for the fumbled launch, but that wasn't Bernie that created the PlayStation's cool factor. If anything he delayed it. (Conspiracy minded folks say he was sent by Sony to sabotage the Saturn's recovery from its launch missteps, but those are as incoherent and mindless as any conspiracy).
Sega Of Japan failed so bad, they committed sudoku
Do you mean seppuku? That's suicide with sword ripping your belly. It's usually associated to dying with honor after being dishonored badly. Sudoku is a old math puzzle game. There was also a video game series with a similar enough sounding name called Suikoden. Konami made it instead of Sega. Seppuku makes the most sense with the context.
its seppuku* like rett said
@@KingRett It’s a meme
@@KingRett Whoosh
And took SEGA of America down with them in the process, Yoshimitsu-style.
I actually met the hardware designers for the Dreamcast, a British team from PowerVR.
They said they begged Sega to use DVDs.
That they would sell a billion just as DVD players.
Nope, no idea why but they were wedded to GD-ROM, maybe they thought it was bespoke so uncopyable.
Sega had a DVD add-on for the dreamcast in development but it was cancelled due to Sega retiring from the hardware market.
@@RaenYrtham
Which is so obviously a terrible idea, what were they thinking?
They weren't thinking of course, that was the problem.
@@MostlyPennyCat They were thinking... about egos, not business.
@@RaenYrtham It wasn't canceled for that reason. Isao Okawa attempted to Dissolved all of SEGA's gaming divisions shortly after taking over as CEO.
Wow interesting thanks for sharing!
$99 down to $20.
Seems a lot like the PlayStation Classic these days.
Unfortunately not here in Canada though
Purchased mine for &19.99 on amazon
If they were actually made well and aren't Chinese emulator nightmares
@@jayzee2634 I bought mine for 20$ at The Source tho
So from what I’m hearing, all of Sega’s mistakes can be summed up as:
SOJ: I have an amazing strategy to fuck over everything we’ve built and ruin the company .
SOA: No that’s a terrible idea. Don’t do it
SOJ: How ‘bout I do, anyway *jingle*
Ultimate Avenger basically.
They should have hired the Sony Samurai.
This is the head of the nail. As you can see it has been brutally destroyed, because you hit it so hard.
From what I read, it's basically always the japanese companies that have a hard time to adapt and stop good ideas in their tracks
If Nintendo and Sony actually teamed up, SEGA would've died before the Saturn came to be. And with discs.
If SEGA and Sony teamed up, Nintendo still would've put up a fight. Their first-party games are still considered the best, even today.
Shout out to the Dreamcast though. Great games.
Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, House of the Dead, Jet Set Radio, Sega Bass Fishing, Rival Skools, Power Stone, Soul Calibre, Virtual Tennis...
Nathaniel Mills plus the last game made by LJN, Spirit of Speed. Heh
Soul caliburrrrrrrr
You just got voldomized, lol.
The Dreamcast had great games but sony killed it. Great video by the way.
Nathaniel Mills
You forgot the Sonic Adventure games.
2k sports games, Seaman, etc. I used to love playing online games like Starlancer, PSO, and Alien Front Online. PS2 online was a joke at that time.
Crazi taxi had a version made for the PSP and Soul Calibre was available on Gamecube and Playstation consoles and still is (soul Calibre 6 on PS4)
@4:50 "Mommy, what are those 2 SEGA Machines doing? [They're making an arcade system, dear]" LOL
when sega literally screwed itself
@@jyo9735 This is golden.
“Mushroom Shaped”
How Ironic...
Yes, in deed, just ask Mario and Luigi
The atomic
Ahhh, this explains so much! My childhood was Sega over Nintendo and I was always sad the company fell so hard. Now I understand why.
Amen bro :-(
Same here bro... Until this day I am a Sega Saturn fan
Yeah, I was pretty devastated when it happened... I was sure the better would stick around. I never considered a console war WITHOUT Sega!
Me too ! I've regretted it since. I missed playing Mario in the 80s. But after i started working i bought the N64 and was finally on board. The Dreamcast was a great system though !
Eww don’t go to sega
It sounds like having two different Sega companies in two countries was the real problem.
TheLegendInYou I would debate that. Seems to me that the Sega Japan president was horrible at making decisions. I think that even Sega of Japan would have been the only one its president would have still fucked it up.
@@JosueGomezX3 so you the above statement you agree with ? It seems you do find it too be true but still want to debate it ?
Dream Cast was the best console Sega ever made it was to far ahead of its time.
That controller was meh though.
@@poswm dude the memory card that was inside of the controller had mini games that you could take with you where ever you went and helped you level up in the games when you put the memory back in the controller.
@@gamebros8424 Ergonomics is the most important part of a controller to me. I hated that wire being on the wrong end of it. It always tugged tge controller out of my hands.
@@poswm Xbox took Dream Cast's controller design and aplied it to the Xbox controller
@@gamebros8424 the cable on the wrong end drives me nuts
Sega's Worst mistake, their CEO's combover. 9:00 I would never trust someone who thinks that looks good.
Now the President of the United States has one of the worst combovers in known history, lol.
It wasn't their CEO. It was their Chairman and Parent Company CEO.
Alex Guy combovers are an exercise in denial. Accept reality please.😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😃😀
And speaking of Stolar, let's talk about this guy for a bit. When the Playstation launched in America, it had a rocky start. Sony had hired Stolar as the head of Sony Computer Entertainment of America, and the guy proceeded to veto all sorts of games, mainly 2D games and JRPG localization, in favor of sports titles. In fact, we almost never got Final Fantasy 7 in America thanks to this guy. Thankfully, Sony quickly caught on to him, and soon fired him and reversed his policies, allowing a steady and healthy stream of games to once again flow into the console's market.
But then, SEGA of America not only decided to hire the guy fresh after being fired at Sony, they express made him the CEO of the company. If the botched American launch of the Saturn was the first nail in the coffin for the console, then Stolar was definitely the last. He pulled the exact same draconian policies he did at Sony, vetoing a number of quality 2D titles, which were unquestionably the best titles for the system, and downplaying the Saturn as dead in the water. Not only did his policies piss what was left of SEGA's fanbase at the time, it also drove practically all American third party developers who were still willing to develop game for the system to boycott the Saturn altogether, perhaps even SEGA as a whole. In a short amount of time, Stolar effectively destroyed SEGA's reputation of being a much more supportive and third-party friendly platform than Nintendo, a reputation it had worked on building for years.
Stolar may not have been the sole contributor to the Saturn's downfall; from what I hear, the team responsible to market the system was totally incompetent, apparently unaware that they were trying to advertise a video game system, and the complexity of the hardware itself, as you mentioned in the video, made it difficult to program quality games for the system, doubly so when it wasn't designed to handle 3D graphics in an era where polygonal graphics was becoming all the rage. However, the fact that SEGA completely overlooked the man's past history when they hired him, immediately replaced the far more competent and savvy Tom Kalinsky as the head of SEGA of America with him, and allowed him to stay in power until around the Dreamcast's launch, is truly mind-boggling, and a testament of SEGA's utter ineptitude in managing the company from the mid-90's onward. Something, I feel, they still haven't quite learned yet.
I think Stolar might be the reason Working Designs started developing titles for the original Playstation. His hard line against niche 2D games and RPG's drove them into the arms of Sony. Not that Working Designs was pure as the driven snow, mind.
He just like Tom Kalinske but Flip-Flopped. :D
Bernie Stolar is worse than the video game crash itself. He could've made another one if he was head of what video games could ever come over to America altogether. What an idiot this guy is.
The CD and Saturn still have amazing games, but only in Japan. Well, actually, the CD surprisingly has a lot of localized ones.
You are 90%, Here's EVERYTHING that Stolar did. He personally HATED the Saturn:
segareniassance.blogspot.com/2016/03/op-ed-bernie-stolar-and-isao-okawa-dumb.html#comment-form
However, Saturn was ALWAYS designed as a 3D System. The common assumption it wasn't. is incorrect.
Not SEGA. CSK.
Saturn wasn't poorly designed. It was in fact the most ADVANCED and brilliantly designed Console of the 5th Gen. CSK forced it into production shortly after SEGA had scrapped its planned Jupiter console in mid 1993.
And SEGA didn't come to late with the Master System. They entered in with the SG-1000 in 1983. Master System was blocked from getting software support by Nintendo of America. It's CEO Minoru Arikawa LOCKED developers UNDER CONTRACT. They weren't even allowed to make games for other home consoles.
"Sony doesn't know how to make gaming consoles."
*Amplifies microphone*
"Say that, again."
Love the research and effort that you put in your vids. Always a fan bro..thanks.
No research. Just regurgitating what other youtubers already falsely claimed.
Someones salty.
Amongst channels like this, Gaming Historian is easily the best.
In a land of the blind the one-eyed is king. I wish he'd stick to facts.
retrospiel: YOUR facts, and research sources are...?
The Atari Jaguar is a "64 bit" system in the same way that a 20 year old woman and a 40 year old woman are actually, together, a 60 year old woman.
Jaguar uses 4 16-bit processors its actually a 32-bit Console with only one 32-bit thread and one 32-bit Register.
Atari - at least after Jack Tramiel took over - was notorious for stretching the truth or hiding important details. Anyone who was around during the Atari vs Amiga ad campaigns can tell you that there were more footnotes and asterisks on the Atari ads than on a government cost report. They were hilariously deceptive and dishonest.
For sure. I'm perfectly aware of that. His nickname was "Satan".
He also was responsible for running Atari all the way into the ground 6 feet under.
Jaguar was a bit behind the PS1 and WAY behind the Saturn in power and computing, it was not capable of 64-bit instructions while Saturn could theoretically push a max 64-bit instructions since the SH-2 Aurora could run Dual Core instructional power and since it contained a total of 4 32-bit Instructional Data Registers and Threads combined(2 32-bit Registers and Two 32-bit Threads).
I will give Jack one bit of props, and that is by the fact that they put the Atari ST together, from start to finish, in about 6 months (If I remember correctly). Sure, it lagged behind the Amiga in every category except price, clock speed and MIDI, but in that time frame that's still pretty impressive. (Clock speed turned out to not be the big advantage they thought it would be, due to the Amiga's co-processors.)
Yeah Jack Tramiel was the downfall of Atari.
And Commodore.
Seems like Sega of Japan was always the road blocker to the Success of Sega in general. All because of SoJ being jealous of SoA's success with the genesis in America. Smh :/
They didn't really understand it. It takes a lot to run a business in a foreign country.
Microsoft has made similar problematic decisions in Japan. Their Xbox slogan was "Jump In" which they demanded be used in all territories for branding "synergy". But taht's a phrase that, despite Japan TELLING THEM SO, is a colloquialism that makes no sense in Japan. So MS marketing slogan and commercials in Japan were basically gibberish.
It would be like if MS sold the Xbox One X with the slogan "XBOX ONE X! STAND OVER!"
Only if you get all your information from youtube.
retrospiel I do further research not just from TH-cam but as well as talking on forums with others. Granted SoA messed up at times as well (hiring Bernie Stolar), but SoJ really showed their colors.
I was a Sega fan in the 80s and early 90s (still am), and the only time I really hated them was under Kalinske.
They are also the reason why Sonic underground was a terrible show, look up "5 fingers censorship japan" and guess what caused Sonic underground to suck.
I miss the jingle at begining when we turn the console on, that said: SEGAaaaa.... 😓
Same.
I know you mention it briefly, but I think the lack of DVD playback on the Dreamcast was a much more significant mistake than things like the 32x, and was the final nail in SEGA's coffin. When the PS2 was released, DVD players were as expensive as the PS2, and many people bought a PS2 simply because it could play DVDs, and having a games console included was just a bonus.
I don't beleive you can call it a "mistake". It simply wasn't an option. The Dreamcast launched a year before the PS2, and Sony was only able to prodide the DVD players in the PS2 becuase of their leverage as a company that made DVD players. Sony would never have had that option.
(Any product that includes a DVD player has to include the license, which adds extra cost to the unit. Sony got around that because they were basically paying themselves. MS got around it by disabling the DVd feature in the Xbox until you bought a seperate device, the remote, that allowed you to play DVDs)
I think I heard somewhere that Sega was planning on adding a DVD Drive to the Sega Dreamcast but it was too late. Don't quote me on it because it's very vague in my memory.
It wasn't that big of a deathblow on its own. After all, the Nintendo GameCube didn't have a DVD player either, and it remained decently competitive.
The GameCube probably would've done quite a bit better if it did have one, but Nintendo did at least take the opportunity to take a lesson from the Dreamcast by using an exclusive disc format that greatly helped prevent piracy. If they weren't going to include DVD playback anyway, that was at least the next best option.
Decently competitive? 155 million PS2 sales versus 22 million GameCube sales. A DVD player was a HUGE deal at the time. Heck, you used to be able to get PS2 bundles with DVD movies instead of games! That's how important the DVD player was on the PS2.
Those 22 million sales are still a decent amount by normal standards that the Dreamcast could never have dreamed of reaching. The XBox also had a DVD player and only sold 24 million. The PS2 just dominated everything else that generation.
Sony came along with the playstation in 95 and kicked everyone in the balls. Some recovered and some didn't. I remember it all so well!
Remember playing Tekken and ridge racer at launch and these games were graphically beyond anything i had seen on console.
Sega’s balls ruptured, and they decided to kill themselves. Nintendo’s balls ruptured, and they said “fine, whatever. I’m a girl now!”
I’m honestly surprised Nintendo survived that era. It was the only company to stick with cartridges and they probably would’ve died out if Sega didn’t shoot themselves in the foot...
@@dannyrvt6924 Nintendo has dodged death several times. 😂😂
@@dannyrvt6924 If the Wii hadn't been the huge success it was Nintendo would've gone the way of Sega.
The proverb "pride comes before the fall" applies exactly to SEGA. Early 90's they boasted "Genesis does what Nintendo doesn't".
And by the end of the decade they were down and out in the console wars.
what Nintendon't
To be fair, that was all Sega of America. I'm a European and I hate how insecure with their product all their commercials made them them sound, resorting to make fun of Nintendo.
yes, like almost go broke and become a third party developer in a last ditch effort to recuperate costs and become a mere shadow of what you once were. Nintendo certainly doesn't do that!
@@j2briggs
Why are you yelling at me?
Take it easy, man.
I got no quarrels with you.
@@HeyJohnnyBaybay dude I was just joking, I wasn't having a go at you, it's all good! :)
It truly is unbelievable how Sega rose to have Nintendo on the ropes and actually beat them briefly only to losing it all a few years later. What's perplexing is that if you read the book Console Wars, Nakayama was no doubt the one who sunk Sega's proverbial boat yet he was also the one who chose Tom Kalinske to lead Sega US which was a brilliant move.
It makes you wonder if there was pressure from others in Sega that managed to convince him to stop listening to Tom. We will never know.
"Sony doesn't know how to make hardware."
WTF? Lol. I know this was the 90's, but Sony was killing it with stuff like their Walkman and Discman for the last decade. Good call, Sega of Japan!
they also were a pretty popular TV brand back in the day
Adam Porter Yep. Until about the mid 2000's, they were a top dog with Philips/Magnavox. Then Samsung and LG appeared.
SEGA of Japan was ran by a man-child.
You clearly don't understand.
Nope. None of this was SEGA of Japan's fault.
Plus, I'm GLAD SEGA of Japan turned Sony down. Had they listened and agreed to partnership, Sony would have destroyed the good fortunes of both SEGA and Nintendo and would have destroyed BOTH companies. Dreamcast would have NEVER been made, Nintendo 64 wouldn't have saw light of day as by 2000, BOTH SEGA AND Nintendo would have stopped making consoles and would have be brought out by Sony as subsidiaries BOTH developing games for PlayStation 2.
Sony wanted to MONOPOLIZE the gaming market. They wanted to defeat BOTH Nintendo and SEGA.
SEGA's logo still looks d0pe tho
yes
i do like the spiky rat’s word lines as well
ikr.
Best logo in the video game industry.
SWEGTA
Sega's biggest problems were the egos of the Japanese management.
"$299 😐" throws🎤
Sega: *Police, i was murdered today*
Throws a song about it?
Nintendo:Sony is an baga
It's so funny, it's sad. SEGA at one time was even outselling NINTENDO. Then Sega made so many horrible mistakes, that it was possible for SONY to kill SEGA with three words: "Two, ninety, nine."
@@eternalhalloween1 - Nakayama was pretty much directly responsible for all of that. I've seen criticisms of Sony of Japan being "too Japanese" - as in, too proud and inflexible to make the kinds of innovative decisions that American companies tend to make all the time. But frankly, I think Sega of Japan was even more deserving of that criticism than Sony, given how they basically refused to work with their American counterpart.
For context, the Sony-too-Japanese criticisms I saw came at about the time that Microsoft entered the Japanese market with the Xbox and 360. While neither of those consoles could really compete with the PS2 and PS3 in Japan, people in general favored the 360's UI over that of Sony's, and the "Too Japanese" comment applied mostly to Sony's stubborn refusal to make their system UI more user-friendly.
For those curious, favoring in inflation that $399 would equal to $643.50 to today's money.
Also funny how Sony would screw themselves at first with the PS3 announcement of the price of 599 US dollars. That 299 comment is still funny as Hell.
Sire Kumasutra Steve Race’s “$299” speech is still one of the most epic moments in E3 history. It really doomed the Saturn before the Gen5 console war began.
...yeah. But you have to remember that Sega had internal memory to save games to where the PS1 was the first console to demand that the player buy a memory card just to save a game. The Saturn also came with the pack-in game Virtua Fighter (which had it's own problems) where the PS1 came with nothing but a demo disk.
So really the only reason the PS1 sold for 299 was because it was the first console to begin selling crap piecemeal in order to lower the price. It was a huge departure from the SNES, which came with 2 contorllers and Mario World right out of the box.
considering blu ray players cost 800 dollars at the time a 499 20GB PS3 wasnt a bad deal.
JazGalaxy thats a great point. Sony just tricked the sheep into thinking they were getting a deal
J.R. Wizzle : Yeah, I mean, it was smart of Sony. And it became the defacto way the industry works now. Even MS made a major mis-step by packing in the Kinect and charging a higher price than Sony's PS4 (which came with their standard nothing.). But I still remember getting a PS1 for Christmas and then having to explain to my parents that I now needed to get a memory card, another controller so my brother could play, and a game. It wasn't a HUGE deal for my family, but having to spend an extra 100 dollars they hadn't counted on could have been a huge deal for most families.
"Oh, you mean that 300 dollar thing we just bought does absolutely nothing until we spend more money? And you want to go right now because if not then you got nothing for Christmas? Great. Thanks Sony."
I was 14 when the Dreamcast came out and despite never actually getting it, I loved playing it (got kicked out of the store one time for playing too much).
My classmates, though? "I'm not gonna buy that, don't you know the PS2 is coming out soon?"
Pure, blind hype in Sony's favor destroyed the Dreamcast.
The Dreamcast is awesome. I still play it to this day.
Good. Sega was greedy. Got the genesis and sonic kept freezing. I returned it and got a Nintendo with DK country. Best game decision ever. Sega was crap hardware.
@@TheLegendInYou That seems to be an issue specific to yours. Most Genesis worked really well.
My Genesis never gave me a problem. For a while the Dreamcast was superior to PS1 but we all knew that the PS2 was going to beat the crap out of it in every way imaginable!
I was also 14 and got it on launch. Loved every day of that systems 365 day life.
I'm noticing a theme, and it seems to be this: Sega's biggest mistake was Sega of Japan.
I think the two huge cultural differences made a huge impact! Also, i believe Japanese are very arrogant people w huge egos in business. Broad general statement. Think it holds true in the demise of their company in these incidences tho
@@therealrobbdee672 i mean, the japanese aren't really generally like that and it was more of a sega of japan issue since nintendo, while still having short commings, didn't have to go through half sega went through, also we could talk about sony which itself is a japanese company
@@jamm6_514 i didn't know that! All three were/are major entities in their own right(sp). Can't say i didn't dig on both Nintendo and Sega!
So true!
Cultural differences did play role but it mostly down to bad management the Sega CD should not being released so fast with mostly terrible games they could have easily made decent or at least okay money from it and give it time to develop . Once that was done sell the Saturn.
Michael Katz and Tom Kalinske were the architects of the success of Sega Genesis in the United States and Sega Japan never wanted to accept it. Later, his pride and one-sided decision-making turned against him.
Great video. That Sony moment, Savage AF.
Yeah, but i think the point 2 is over blown, like we dont know the terms and agreemnts Sony put on Nintendo or Sega to work with them. They are not known as been senerous and rather greedy. Im really glad neither went with Sony.
Sony was trying to run both out of the console business.
as if nintendo and Sega werent trying the same, duh
@@Andrei3253 I've heard from many sources that Sony wanted a lot of control with the console they were developing with Nintendo and even hid a clause in the contract that would permit them to do so. Naturally, that made Nintendo back out.
With Sega, it seems SoJ just didn't want to work with them.
Without the cash to afford a computer to run DOOM at the time the 32X was my only option and I have no regrets.
KWKBOX it was a good game. It had flaws, but I loved it as a kid. Thank god we had no internet back than. I never known it had missing levels
I hate You I miss the simple times of not knowing what I was missing.
The 32X version had music. That was the Jaguar.
But the Jaguar version has all the levels in tact.
Lord Calvanian but barely few knew because nobody bought the Jaguar and thus Atari kicked the bucket.
I got a Jaguar for $50 back then on clearance, didn't get Doom because I already had it on 32X.
Sadly Sega's greatest enemy was it's self.
Gabriel C. Yep, and that's what killed my beloved Dreamcast
or the president of the sega of japan
Nope. You got it all wrong.
You are your worst enemy.
Finally, a “Sega’s biggest mistakes” list that doesn’t involve Sonic ‘06.
Sonic 06 didn't even do anything wrong, it's basically just an epic Sonic Game (like the adventure games) that needed more development time & was released with a lot of problems to an audience that hadn't yet gotten the Adventure Games. Sonic 4 & Sonic Colors were the real games that killed the Sonic Series by starting the Meta Era. 2010s Decade forgot that Sonic was supposed to be cool & made him into a lame parody of himself.
@@WaterKirby1994 After Sonic 06, Sega started to cut the budget for future Sonic titles more and more, resulting in games that have not much passion and effort put into it despite a couple gems (like Colors, Generations, Mania and All-Stars Racing). That combined with strict deadlines and the fact that making a ultra fast paced 3D platformer is very difficult and expensive to do correctly, also resulted in a lot of mediocre to bad games in the series, unfortunately.
@@dinohermann1887 Colors & Unmodded Generations weren't Gems & I know that. Of course it isn't just budget reduction, the series was clearly mismanaged & a lot of money got wasted on Boom. Yes that is the problem, 3D Boost insists on having mostly Just Sonic go too fast for the series own good. The series needs to Return to Adventure.
Poor Sega, you fell on your own sword.
Number 1 biggest mistake - listening to Sega of Japan
Sega US should have been in charge of the entire business
The moral of this story is....don't say NO! to sony.
Handsome Artist or to Microsoft.
̶o̶r̶ /and. Don't leave the progress to those who have the money but not the skills it is the brothel on the international scale(the time to buy all the good programmers, buy all the small publishers, explode the arcade market, that's what they are capable of). The mastery of hardware and software was on the side of Sega. The moral of this story is that money is a brake on progress (in this configuration).
Nintendo would have been screwed over if they had said yes to Sony though. Sony wanted almost all of the software royalties for SNES-CD games and ownership of one of Nintendo's IPs (I think it was Star Fox, but i cant remember for sure). Nintendo would have lost a LOT of money on the deal. Problem was, things were already pretty far along so it pissed off Sony. It was a lose-lose situation for Nintendo
+Broadway JR
Nintendo shouldn't have allowed the discussions to go that far. They should have handled it better up to the point where they felt they had to withdraw, as the contract wasn't signed yet.
Honestly, not so sure star fox being in the hands of someone else would be a bad thing, considering how nintendo treats it.
Regardless, nintendo is still in the game, so is sony, though i'm not a fan of x box. i'm glad to have a us game company like that, but microsoft.......hmmmm.
@@Bjorick They trusted Sony because of their existing history. Nintendo made the mistake of trusting them enough to write the contract. Sony snuck in some clauses that Nintendo didnt catch until later which would have effectively given Sony full ownership over the SNES-CD (including all software royalties). And i was wrong about Star Fox, it was Mario and Zelda, and while they werent demanding full ownership, they were making absurd demands about control of the franchises and publishing them.
Even if it were Star Fox though, doubt it would fare much better under Sony. We wouldnt get Star Fox 64 *and* Sony has a bad track record of abandoning IPs
It bothers me how Sega's arcade hardware business is often ignored
Sega is hands down the best at making games.
I don’t understand why SOJ didn’t just tell SOA they were developing the Sega Saturn and have them help with it. Rather they decided to keep it a secret for some reason...
Daniel J same thing they did with the sega cd
@@maroon9273 The Sega CD was in reply to the PC Engine CD-Rom in Japan.
This is one of the most interesting videos about Segas history on youtube. You got a sub.
Sega's #1 mistake: Not releasing the Saturn with dual blast processors.
How is that a mistake when Saturn USED a Dual 32-bit CPU?
I'm pretty sure that was a joke, since 'blast processing' was a made up term by Sega for their advertisements.
+setheurovision94
It may have been a made up term--but you can't deny the effectiveness of that marketing ploy!
@@Tornado1994 I think Dreamcast should Uses Duel-32-bit CPUs in releases for All Saturn games backward compatible!
I bought the Saturn at launch.
I remember them sending me two free games in the mail out of nowhere. A new version of Virtua Fighter, and I think Daytona.
I personally loved the system and put a lot of hours on it.
I keep saying though that even though it was a smart and clever way to look cool by saying "299" what he doesn't say is that you didn't get a pack in game and you needed to buy a memory card. So the seemingly huge $100 difference suddenly didn't look as bad after you calculate those factors. But Sega messed up a lot in the mid 90's and it always seemed to be Sega of Japan with the nonsense decisions.
But consumers often judge just from the first number they see, out of context, without first researching any further extra costs. Marketing guys have realized that long ago and use it to their advantage, lol.
Totally right and… Gaming Historian my ass… You can’t say all the true…
Andrea Scianna please, next time you comment, at least TRY and make a point instead of rambling incoherently
Benjamin Dover He also mentioned having to, purchase a game separately? Which would have been about $60 before tax, back then, at least where I lived. A game plus a memory card would have been about $80, which, isn't $100, but it's still an additional cost.
JoeDeceiver LOL I wouldn't bother debating with him if I was you. As Mark Twain said "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience".
Dreamcast was definitely the most fun I have ever had with a console. And it trully pushed the other 3 competitors to really push their boundaries too. So although, yeah, Dreamcast was a failure in many ways. It was a success for what it delivered in the industry. Not to mention some of the games were amazing gems such as Shenmue and Jet Set Radio
And NBA 2k my god .
From a business standpoint, I think SEGA of America & SEGA of Japan not being on the same page a lot of times was bound to bite them in the backside.
My 2 first games back in the time were 'Zelda: a link to the past' and 'Super Mario World'. Now it's almost 2020 and I must admit those 2 games are still listed in my Top 10.
If it wasn't for Sony being mishandled by these two well received video game giants Nintendo and Sega, we might not have the amazing PlayStation we all know and love to this very day.
Or we could have had the Sega Playstation.
Or we could have Nintendo PlayStation
Yeah we'd still have something like it. It would be "instead of" the Saturn or N64 as we know them, but the same developers would have existed so it's safe to say most of the same games would've come out. They'd just be... Different. (Especially if it was Nintendo who stayed with Sony)
I fully believe that the Dreamcast was the only thing they did right after their initial success, but the players and industry was not willing to forgive them for the absurd mistakes from the past. By the time it came out, everyone was over Sega and not willing to give them another chance. It was a great system that no one ever played.
Dreamcast still is one of my favorite consoles.
I'm praying to the holy gamer god above that we get a mini classic of it
I hope that we will have mini dreamcast as soon as possible
"Whatever loss that we make" now that's a positive way to be.
it's the razor and the blade model. You make a loss on the razor (the hardware) but you make money on the blades (the software).
Sega had some really good games back in the 90s, I remember spending many enjoyable hours on Shinobi and Kenseiden.
*$299*
Now ps1 £15
One word that killed the Saturn before it even launched
@@Dash120z Mic drop.
Wonder if he was thinking of making that same smartass Playstation launch price quote about the PS3?
That was Savage ASF
ouch, i didnt know SEGA of Japan turned down Sony, that was a HUGE mistake... another Mistake was the SEGA CD in my opinion, not cause it was a failure, but those games INCLUDING Sonic CD could've been the Saturn's launch lineup, it's a crucial fact that they should've made the fans wait, rather than keep sending add-ons which only weakened the Saturn market further, as fans of SEGA wouldnt have the cash saved up.
Yeah, I didn't know SEGA had turned them down either.
But that makes sense. Unlike Nintendo I've never really cared about SEGA.
No it was not. Sony was NOT interested in doing business with SEGA or partnering up with them. They were trying to EAVESDROP on them so they could STEAL information on SEGA's Next Console.
Here's what Actually happened:
n July of 1988, Nintendo started development of Super Famicom codenamed Famicom 2. Nintendo at the time had taken heavy interest in acquiring a smaller,cheaper off the shelf design of Apple's 1986 16-bit Home Computer the Apple IIGS, so they contracted Japanese semiconductor Ricoh Silicon Technologies and Sony to come up with a special System on a Chip design of IIGS hardware. Ricoh designed and customized a Single Core 16-bit processor called the A522 which powers the entire architecture of the IIGS hardware on a single processor, Sony in turn was assigned 2nd Party OEM rights to its Motherboard and designed a special Wav. Custom made Sound processor for the Famicom 2(designed to outshine the Brand NEW and cutting edge SEGA Mega Drive console which launched in Japan that Holiday season)).
In June of 1990, about several months before Super Famicom's Japanese rollout, Nintendo heard rumors and reports that SEGA was partnering up with Pioneer and JVC to design a CD add on accessory for the Mega Drive(Mega CD or "Sega Project Earth" was kept top secret by SEGA until its public unveiling in April 1991), so naturally they wanted in on the rumored Compact Disc ROM craze that they saw starting with NEC and projected to have a CD add on ready for Super Famicom by 1992, since Sony and Philips developed CD tech together in 1981-1982 and since CD ROM was code developed by Sony,JVC and Philips in 1984-1985, Nintendo figured that it would be much easier to simply approach Sony and ask to help assist in developing the accessory.
Here's where things fell apart. Sony in 1990, decided that since they had grown into a Large Corporation(they had purchased Columbia Pictures,Tri Star and CBS Music/Epic BMG from Coca Cola in 1988) that instead of working and partnering with others THEY could pretty much do whatever they wanted. Sony's new Attitude was "We want to Monopolize ANY market we choose" so by that time, Sony was eyeing the video gaming business and instead of wasting time and R&D on building and developing a new home console, they decided to cheat and screw over Nintendo with the newly codenamed "Project Nintendo Play Station".
What Sony did was THEY drew up the contract. Adding multiple Clauses in it which gave Sony 80% of control of the add on. On licensing,Manufacturing, Royalties, Profits, while Nintendo would be left with just a measly 20%. Sony was telling Nintendo in early 1991, that THEY were going OWN the add on, it was as if they wanted Nintendo to literally GIVE away the hardware to Sony.
Nintendo was certainly furious, and demanded a renegotiation set for the Early Summer of 1991, but unfortunately by then, Sony had another demand intentionally designed to piss off Nintendo, in June 1991, Ken Kutaragi and Hiroshi Yamauchi held a Private Meeting in Kyoto, Kutaragi not only refused to change the demands in the contract, he then BOLDLY flat out proclaimed that Sony should ALSO have the right to design and publish Mario and Zelda games, they were telling Nintendo that THEY were going to handle development of Nintendo's IPs.
This was the final straw, Yamauchi dismissed Kutaragi and later called and told him, the deal was off. Nintendo tore up Sony's contract and sent him a Nintendo made contract, giving Nintendo 90% of the rights, with even a JTO Trademark of the prototype "Nintendo Super Famicom CD" and relegated Sony solely to 2nd Party partner only with No ability to license Nintendo IPs for the machine.
Kutaragi pretty much discarded the contract, but not before altering it, giving Sony some rights to use the designs and concepts by redrawing them. Nintendo missed this hidden clause snuck in and signed the contract, but not before realizing that the deal with Sony and Nintendo was pretty much dead.
Nintendo DROPPED Sony from all 2nd Party duties in November of 1991, the newer batches of Super NES and Super Famicom Motherboards would no longer be handled by Sony, instead Nintendo contracted RICOH to handle ALL motherboards and Sharp as Secondary. The biggest Mistake Nintendo made was they forgot to LEGALLY buy back the designs and concepts and let Sony run off with them. All Nintendo had to do was sue Sony for Patent Infringement and Sony's dreams for PlayStation would have been dead as a doornail.
Sony then in August 1991, set up a meeting with SEGA Enterprises,Ltd in Haneda, disguising themselves as an OEM partner, Kutaragi and Sony were actually secretly planning Corporate espionage to STEAL hardware designs,blueprints and concepts of whatever successor of Mega Drive/Genesis that was being planned so they could outdo SEGA in everything technically.
The meeting between Sony and SEGA of Japan took place in Early September 1991. It lasted barely 45 minutes before Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard threw Sony, Kutaragi and his Chairboard out of their office. Berating them, Yelling at them and warning them that they would have no qualms about competing against them IF they even decided to launch a video game product of their own.
SEGA was PISSED OFF because Sony had claimed to them that could design a cutting edge chipset for SEGA without actually showing or displaying to them any proof of such a claim, no concepts, nothing. Sony just shot their mouth off with claims that couldn't be substantiated and on top of that had asked and begged to have access to SEGA's Arcade tech and specs and motherboards. The only thing SEGA showed Sony was System 32 Arcade Hardware, before telling to go screw themselves and slammed the door in their faces.
SEGA of Japan saw RIGHT through Sony. They didn't trust them, wanted NOTHING to do with them and refused to do any business with them they had given JVC full 2nd Party rights to Mega CD. To Sony's complete shock, SEGA were smarter than they thought. The plan to spy and steal hardware from SEGA had backfired, or did it?
Sony finally found an opening in the Spring of 1992, when they discovered that SEGA of America functioned differently from SOJ and were often naive. So they CONNED and WEASELED their way into SOA's offices. They concocted an alibi that they had a 2nd Party Negotiations with SOJ going on and(without presenting proof of such a claim) and thus wanted to handle 2nd party duties for Sega CD in America. They then told(LIED) to SOA that they could design and assemble a 3D chipset for SEGA's Project Jupiter, in which SOA blindly let Sony have access to specs,designs,concepts e.t.c, SOA had NO idea that they would be doublecrossed.
Sony then LIED and deceived SOA by asking to design hardware for Jupiter with a simple(weak and poorly written) contract with a hidden and sleazy clause: Sony would assist SOA in designing a Jupiter prototype chipset, so as long as they be allowed to develop Sega CD games and handle Sega CD's 2nd Party rights. If they suddenly discontinued it, the hardware would be Sony's.
All SEGA had to do to stop this, was consult with SOJ(who would have put licensing and Patent protection on the hardware to prevent Sony from stealing it) but they never did. Sony assured SOA that negotiations of the Jupiter chipset would take place during Early 1993. Sony NEVER fulfilled their end of the bargain and broke their promise.(This was to bide time so that Sony could LOCK down the hardware and collect the licensing rights to it.).
So when Early 1993 rolled around and SOJ consulted with SOA's engineering team after sending them a prototype of System 32 based Giga Drive/MARS,, SOA told them all about Sony. SEGA was furious and when JVC found out that Sony was manufacturing Sega CD ILLEGALLY, they took Sony to court and won. So all CD Loading Tray Model 1 Sega CD's were immediately pulled from the Market in the Summer of 1993.
SOA found out the hard way that Sony had bamboozled them. Sony never met with them in the Spring of 1993. Instead, Sony started full fledged development of their CD based console "Sony PlayStatio- X".
SEGA of Japan had suspected that Sony was planning something. So in Early 1993, they assigned Hideki Sato to begin work on a Top Secret 64-bit powerhouse project codenamed "Aurora". AURORA was going to be Model 2 Arcade based. Its pretty easy to guess what eventually became of Aurora.
So you see, Sony SCREWED both SEGA and Nintendo over. If you want to know where Nintendo was monopolistic, it was when Minoru Aikawa was in charge of Nintendo of America.
Correct.
Agreed. SEGA of America dropped the ball on the FMV side of Sega CD. TBH, its because they weren't sure what Demographic to market it to or how to properly execute it.
And also correct, Mega CD was quite powerful for its time. For instance, PCs didn't use PCM technology or even Mini Polygonal tech yet.
Do you have a article on it?Hers one for you on 32x and saturn segareniassance.blogspot.com.au/2016/02/sega-32xmars-and-saturn-kindred-spirts.html
nah, it wouldn't have made a difference. In 1995, everything was about 3D
Still love to see the stories about consoles. I was infected was that virus in the early nineties and just cannot stop playing!
Its funny that Sony did a similar tactic when the ps4 was revealed. It was $100 cheaper than the Xbox One, it was more powerful, and they allowed you to play used games without having that complicated bs system that the Xbox One tried to have
But they also made the same mistake with the PS3 fat models retailing at $599 and $699, no dual shock support and a cell processor that took companies years to understand how to program for. Very similar to the Saturn. The 360 was cheaper, had an optional hard drive attachment, Xbox Live support and retailed much less expensive at $299 I believe. It too nearly the entire generation before Sony recovered and overtook the Xbox 360 in North America.
ps vita wi-fi model 249$,nintendo 3ds before ps vita e3 announcement 250$ after ps vita e3 announcement 12th Agoust 2011 150$ gg SONY
Indeed, let's hope they keep on track next gen. Full PS4 bc would help.
Actually the xbox 1 is more powerful I think you're thinking of the ps3 vs the 360
@@SuperZombiepimp he's talking about when the ps4 and the first xbone first launched.
Sega of Japan: Sony doesn’t know how to make hardware, let alone software
(Sony is a hardware company, atleast now. Ouch...)
Sony: We’ll show you how bad we are.. >:)
They bought the rights to the playstation from Sega America how had designed it already and were forced by Sega Japan to sell up and focus on selling Japans own console ideas. The console was virtually done and ready to go.
The Japanese are so arrogant and always underestimate their rivals through out history the Japanese have this way of thinking and this is the reason that country can't get ahead and always fail at what they do
I wouldn't say fail at everything. If anything they know they are so far above the rest, but they suffer from lack of humility and modesty. They built quality into almost everything they design. They do however look down on those they deem lesser than themselves and come across sometimes as extremely rude.
$299.
What a savage burn. Jeez. Sega sure was stupid. Amazing they lasted as long as they did.
without games and memory card :P
Damn! That $299 mic drop was straight up masterful!
Another mistake was never making a Streets of Rage 4 game.
There's been many attempts at SoR4, from reboots to Sega themselves giving a stab at it.
SolarstrikeVG I know. I'd be happy if Sega just took SoR remake and released it.
They did. BERNIE STOLAR cancelled it for Dreamcast in 1998.
They should do what they did with Sonic Mania. Have a fan make it. Then get the same music team back in for the soundtrack.
Underated game the heir to double dragon which was a classic
Bonus mistake: Sega declined the N64's 3D chip.
It wasn't a mistake. It saved them money and SAVED Nintendo as a company.
By your logic Sega made no mistakes, because all their "mistakes" benefited Nintendo. Because not only did Nintendo acquire the 3D chip, they also benefited from having less competition if Sega failed. Do you have sources that state Nintendo was in financial turmoil after the SNES and needed "saving" and also provide evidence that Nintendo had no alternatives to the SGI chip.
As for saving them money, the poor hardware of the Saturn arguably cost Sega hundreds of millions of dollars in the long run and the the closure of the company, since in the era of 3D gaming, they designed a console that is focused on 2D. One of two CPU's and VPU's can't render polygons, that is 50% of the console horsepower. The SGI chip would've cost them $40 and potentially allowed them to fight back after the initial mistakes and set-backs.
Nobody said SEGA didn't make mistakes. If anything, the Aurora Chipset was FAR superior than the Ultra 64 one because both Saturn and Nintendo 64 are pointing and laughing at PS1 in the aging dept. They're games have aged FAR better than PS1. The 3D technology on both consoles was FAR better and superior to PS1's.
Also, SEGA not choosing the Ultra 64 ALLOWED Competition. Sony was trying to cockblock and stop Nintendo from moving forward as a console manufacturer by spreading gossip and misinformation to OEM partners. Sony was TRYING to force Nintendo to be unable to have a 5th Generation Console out.
If it weren't for SEGA turning down the Ultra 64 chipset, Nintendo 64 would have never been made and Nintendo would have eventually STOPPED making hardware and become a 3rd party publisher for Sony.
Its clear you don't understand the schematics of Saturn. It was the most advanced and sophisticated Console of the 5th Gen. Plenty of unused potential and RAW power it packed.
Ultra 64 SAVED Nintendo from doom and from Sony's Evil plan to take down BOTH SEGA and Nintendo and completely monopolize the entire gaming industry.
If you believe the Saturn's 3D chip is far superior to the PS1, then you are delusional. Name one racing game on the Saturn that looks better than Racing Lagoon or Colin Mcrae 2. Name your top five best looking Saturn 3D platformers. Like Spyro, Crash, Gex, Rayman, Ape Escape, Tomba etc. Sonic Team had such problems creating a simple 3D Sonic game, that they just gave up.
Sega choosing the SGI chip would also have allowed competition with Sega. Sony sabotaged Nintendo? Again, where's the evidence. You are making shit up, show me your sources. Then send your evidence to Nintendo, so they can file a lawsuit against Sony.
So what if Nintendo stopped making hardware? Who cares? This video is titled "SEGA's 3 Biggest Mistakes" and I named a mistake they made. It has nothing to do with Nintendo.
If you believe that the Saturn is so wonderful... Again, show me the games. Lets say an open world game with the graphical quality of Soul Reaver. You love Nintendo so much so show me a N64 3D game that was released on the Saturn, like Gex 3 or Rayman 2. I understand the schematics of the Saturn more than you, it has more CPU powered combined than the PS1, but that power is directed to the VPU's which are useless for 3D.
Again I ask you: Show me the evidence that Nintendo needed saving after the SNES. Also that Sony sabotaged Nintendo. And you can't back-up your original claim that it saved Sega money, even though Sega became bankrupt. You're one of those complete idiots who believe Sony is a evil company that is trying to destroy your childhood? You would rather see Sega fail than Nintendo, because of your feelings I guess.
Now defend your original claim "It wasn't a mistake. It saved them money and SAVED Nintendo as a company." and prove to me that you can at least argue a point. Also stop capitalizing some words mid-sentence, It makes you look like a moron.
I apologize for the ad hominem attacks, sorry for that. Lets agree to disagree. Cheers.
Remember playing Sonic and Streets of Rage 2 so much....1995.
TheHawk213 TheHawk213 mortal Kombat!
@@patrickbrennan1317 ultimate mk 3
As a Sega Kid I was devastated when Sega said they wouldn't be making consoles anymore. Being a kid I never knew the full story of the downfall of the company but now I know thanks Norm! This was an amazing video and some great Content!
Well one of many blunders for the Saturn: no real Sonic game. The delays and eventual cancellation of Sonic Xtreme. Sonic was a big part of the Genesis' success after all.
True fact. When they decided to pack the first Sonic with the system it's when the sales amplified big time.
i mean, that's not always bed, Nintendo stop making major games for the wiiu so they could have a better launch with the switch
*+ScarfFox and Friends* Completely different case.
not really
Xtreme was never meant for the Saturn. At all.
There WAS a Saturn exclusive title in development during Early 1996 called "Sonic Pool/Sonic Saturn". Alas, STI and Bernie Stolar ordered it cancelled.
I still remember the sneak-release of the Saturn like it was yesterday. i walked into my local Software Etc. and there was a television playing Panzer Dragoon. I stood and watched it for a while thinking it was a videotape. Eventually I asked the guy behind the counter if it was a tape since it wasn't looping and he was like, "Oh, no. It's running on a Saturn." I was like, "You... HAVE a Saturn?" And he's like, "Yeah, we have plenty of them." And there it was on the shelf just sitting there, all 399-y. It was the weirdest feeling. Like walking itno someplace you know you should't be.
It was like if you walked into Gamestop tomorrow and there was a PS5 just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. It was THAT weird.
Like almost stepping into the future? I was in Elementary school when the Saturn came out, and I didn't find out until many years later that there was so much....controversy surrounding it.
I remember when Sonic Jam was announced, I really wanted it and a Saturn (despite the fact that I already had all four Genesis games sitting on my shelf, but Sonic World was mesmerizing to me, at that time). I got a Saturn for Christmas '97 + Sonic Jam and Sonic 3D Blast. I remember my parents saying that the guy at Funcoland was saying weird things, when they asked for a Saturn. Saying stuff like "I dunno if you wanna do that. I don't think it's gonna be around much longer". Now it all makes sense. The Saturn was almost on life support, and support (ha!) for it was ceasing.
It's crazy looking back on all this.
I loved my Saturn. Allot of my favorite games are Sega Saturn games. It's a shame that Sega bungled the marketing on it so badly. Oh and having to buy that expensive memory module to save my Dragon Force games was a serious kick in the teeth.
Nights into Dreams and Clockwork Knight were two of my favorites.
@@dennisanderson8663 Nights was a weird game. Me and my brother got it just for the controller plug in.
Should've NEVER STOPPED MAKING THE GENESIS. that was and still was the Best system Sega ever made