When I was talking about the resale value of cars bought today in 10 years from now, there are 2 points you in the comments have pointed out... #1 - my estimate for the Prius (despite having the new design) WAS too high and it's probably more like 15k as opposed to 25k. And #2 ICE cars might not have as great resale in 10 years either since they will likely be less in demand. Who knows! I will also add I just checked in with my friend who has a 2018 Tesla and he says while the build quality isn't great compared to his 2018 Toyota 4Runner (doors closing tight, rattling while driving etc) he has said that the Tesla still runs great in 2024 with 100K+ mileage on it. That's reassuring.
The strange thing about the chemical soup you get in Lithium based chemistries is they age even if you don't drive the car - think trying to charge up a battery that's just been sitting in a drawer for 10 years. There are so many examples on the Tesla forums of the batteries lasting over 200k miles, but also ones failing in under 40k miles just from the age of the vehicle and likely other factors like how often it was parked in the cold, or in direct sunlight, how often it was supercharged, how often it was discharged below 10%, or above 80%, or more basic things like the battery housing developing a leak over time. More worrying there are many examples of batteries showing minimal degradation but going from 50% charge to 0 in the space of 1 mile, or shutting off on the road when you try to accelerate. You may have experienced something similar on a 3-5 year old phone battery where you try to make a call and the phone reboots because the cells cannot provide the required voltage anymore, despite the battery health showing 85%.
@@DigiDriftZone Yeah that is interesting to consider for sure. In the past I definitely felt more examples of that... but I feel like my Samsung S21 is still going strong. Not sure I'd want to base buying a $50,000+ vehicle off of that experience though!!
@@TheSAHDLife Garages are adapting and are getting the experience to work on EVs. A 15k battery replacement will be cheaper in 3-5 years since they will be replacing dead cells/packs instead of the full kit. Go watch electrified garage videos !
Funny things is, they talk about oil changes as being an annoying things, but don't consider about hour long charging time as annoying when you are planning for a long trip
Yeah I hear you... but for some of us, we will do 100% of our charging at home. That would sure be annoying though, especially as charging stations get busier and busier.
It really depends on the charging archetype of the EV. They don’t all charge at the same speed. My husband has the fastest archetype charging infrastructure in his car and fully charges his Ioniq 5 at a charging station (fastest charger) in 15 min. The Teslas don’t charge as fast. If he’s not on a road trip he uses our regular level 1 charger at home and it takes 12 hours. He’s got enough range (about 330 miles) that he doesn’t drive enough during the work week to even need to charge it every day.
Thats because it’s not an hour to charge. Just got back from a roadtrip in an EV and 19% to 80% charge was under 25 minutes. From 47% - 80% was 14 minutes. It’s not an hour. It is longer than a tank of gas fill-up. But even during that 25 minute charge I was still waiting on my order at the local Wendys. So if you plan around them it’s not that big of a deal. Charges at home are slower and done overnight but supercharges are the ones you seem to be referring to and they are much, much faster.
@@Alopen-xb1rb exactly- it’s not even close to an hour, depending on the type of car. VW ID4 is still about 45 min I hear. Most people (especially with kids) while on long road trips need to stop every 2-3 hours anyway, even if you’re driving an ICE car. We were at a QT gas station in GA the other day and waited 20 min for some of their fresh pizza- if my husband had been charging he would have been done by then, plus then some.
I got a 330e this year and I have zero regrets. Super fun to drive, my commute to and from work is fully electric and my gas bill has dropped 90%. Drove 6 hours this past weekend and hit 48mpg on highway gas only driving thanks to how efficient the B46 is. I went to Algonquin provincial park superchargers in the area are enough to make you nervous. Happy I got it over the model 3. Also, Canadians can relate well to this: finding a charger that isn’t a Tesla is still a nightmare, and half the time you do find them, they’re broken.
That's awesome! Sounds like you made the right choice. We just settled on a model 3 refresh and it's just great for us. We're just charging hip and 120 volt household plug in our garage and it's so cheap. It's working great for us and we love the features. I'd be a little scared to venture too far away from the major hubs here in BC though!
Thankfully I'm not a car whore and I can keep the same vehicle for a long time. BEV all the way. But if you truely care about resale as in you wont keep the vehicle long stick to gas for now. As a mechanic I can tell you outside the best hybrids (toyota) plug in hybrids fail more often than any other type.
Yeah word. People buy vehicles for so many different reasons. Some people are very practical while others are more emotional. If you keep the car for 5 to 10 plus years I think the fuel savings really matter and the resale not so much. But that's great you're able to work on it yourself and customize it to just how you like it.
We finally got our new 2024 Prime in March. Our third Prius. Very pleased with the first two (non Prime), and each averaged 4.4 L per 100Km year round. When we made the deal for the 2024, the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Model C, half of what we paid new. I don't think that in 12 years a dealer (or anyone else), will consider paying 1/2 the original cost of a Tesla considering the price to replace the Traction battery. The new Prime ? We have driven it 3,600+Km so far and bought just $45.00 (a half tank), only because we had to take a road trip. And, oh, it cost more than $20,000 less than the cheapest Tesla. I like these numbers.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing. Jeez we still go back and forth almost daily. For awhile there we got really excited about the fuel savings of a full EV but we would be able to charge our car every night at home and might be able to get almost those same savings with a PHEV plus all the advantages to NOT buying an EV (like resale / trade-in as you mention). I'm really glad to hear from an owner so thanks for chiming in. Is there anything you don't love about the car?
@@TheSAHDLife Very glad to hear it was useful to you. My biggest beef with the Prime is the absence of a spare tire. I know tire technology has advanced and flats are less common but, they do happen. We had our first two Priuses for 16 years and had just one flat. It was sidewall damage, so, without a spare we'd have been stuck. Our tires are quite low profile and our spring roads are always covered in "road sores". The "Fix the Flat Kit isn't capable of addressing a sidewall tear. That means a tow-truck. Where we live, "breaking down" often means having to wait a very long time for rescue if your not near a community (which describes a great deal of our province). You can buy a spare tire kit from Toyota for the Reg. hybrid that fits under the hatch floor (why the bloody thing does not come with the car is a mystery). However, the kit will not suit the Prime, too little room due to the bigger battery. We plan to source a set of rims and tires for winter use. We'll seek out inexpensive 17" rims and the closest tire size to the 195-50's that came with the car. At the moment, no manufacturer makes a winter tire in the oddball OEM size. This route offers the added benefit of giving us a spare (in both seasons). So, should we take a road trip we'll just throw a wheel in back. We both really like the car. And, neither of us has encountered the issues many other Posters complain about.
Great video brother. Like the way you put facts. My point on 10yr from now is, lot can be changed as solid state battery tech others can enable the batteries to be damn cheap. The 20k full EV swap can be 5k... how know. 😊
Thanks man! Do you think the newer Solid State batteries might be able to be placed in the older, let's say Tesla, batteries as replacements in the future? Is that what you're saying? Or would you wait to get a solid state in the first place so that they will be cheaper to replace in the future.
Dont be logical. Life is short, have fun while you can !!! In 10years you wont thing about the 10k you lost but all the fun you had along the way ! Plus, tesla model 3 is the most safe car ever
Yeah that is a topic worth considering for sure. I think gas will be around for awhile but I know what you mean. We still aren't sure what we'd buy if we bought one right now. We've kind of gone full circle!
Not going to happen. ICE cars are going to be around for decade’s because there is not enough electricity available. The price of electricity for the average person is going to break the bank. EV cars will have to start paying road tax. If the road tax was taken off of gasoline EVs would never pay for them selves. Free money from rebates haha that’s your tax money. 90% of people will NOT be able to charge at home.
I chose having fun vs saving money simply because life is too short. I won't be able to bring the money saved to the other side. It's ok to die broke with a smile on my face in my last moments of my life. Awesome analysis of the subject ! Good job man !
Yeah you know I like that mindset too. It's very rare I regret buying the nicer item. We still haven't made up our mind. I'm really interested to see what the new Model Y's will look like, but jeez Musk makes it tough to invest in Tesla!
Yeah I hear you. I wonder if Honda's or Toyotas of that year similar model go for more... But they cost more also. So many factors to consider. Did your car need lots of repairs over the 10 years?
I do believe you missed a critical point. All 3 hybrid, plug in, and EV are affected by cold significantly. Not just EV's. My 2016 Prius went from 60 to 70 miles per gallon down to 30 to 40 miles per gallon in the winter. That was an a mild Washington winter. Now I live in significantly colder winter weather. Plugins are affected even more than EVs. My Outlander PHEV goes from between 40 and 75 mpg down to 25 to 35 in the winter. My model 3 RWD (not long range) still had 205mi range at 70mph in the winter. So if you compare all three, the EV is actually affected the least in the winter. There is also very little evidence to support EV resale value being lower than Hybrid or PHEV.
It depends on your driving pattern and the way you set up the interior heating. In my hybrid Corolla, i achieve some 4.4L/100km (54 mpg) in the summer and 5.2L/100km (45 mpg) in the winter. Most of the time i drive alone, so i set up the HVAC to driver only and turn on the heated seat and steering wheel. But yeah, a lot of time the engine kicks in only to produce heat, which is kinda wasteful.
Tesla is not the only EV in the world. It is am expensive car for what it is offering. You can try the cost with a Hyundai Kona, Ioniq or Bayon. Try do it with other cars as well, even Byd. You may find that, over 10 years, EV cost less. After 10 years, if you are still happy with the car, have a new battery if needed and keep going with it as a 2nd car or accept the loss and get a better one for another 10 years. Anyway nobody hold cars for 10 years now. Lease an EV for 4 years and pay only the depreciation on the 4 years. Bargain!
You know, I've never considered a lease before but now almost seems like a decent time to consider it. And I WISH BYD were available in our area. They seem sweet... because you're right, there are others to consider. Tesla still just seems like the best though.
@@TheSAHDLifethe problem with leasing is that you pay more than you would pay buying with finance and sell it after the same 4 years (in Portugal the interest is way greater for leasing)
@@gn6877 I know right? It doesn't make sense to me either but there has to be a reason so many people do it. I'll try and get to the bottom of it soon. Maybe people just hate selling stuff? I mean I get that... but it's so much money you save.
Who have time to sit at a charging station for 4 hours? Hybrid all the way! If you own a house and are willing to pay the price for installing a home charger ev may be an option. If you come home with a empty ev and have an emergency you will have to call an uber because you cant wait for it to charge just some thing to think about.
Yeah I hear you. We just bought an EV as our second car and, 50% battery lasts for a whole week for us... so as long as we plan well, we should never have an issue with charging. Things might be different if it was our main car and we had to commute more often, but we don't so it's great.
I enjoyed your video. Of course everyone have to calculate what is right for them. After 5 days with no power after hurricane I would be only comfortable with an EV as a back up.
Thanks! Yeah that would feel sketchy for sure. We just did a week of daily driving running errands and still had 50% battery left on a standard range Tesla... It has made me feel a little better about power outages etc but still. I also say that because we do have a gas vehicle as well so not as worried.
I'm either buying a Toyota Prius Prime SE or a used 2023 Toyota BZ4X FWD. I can find a BZ4X FWD, under 10k KM, for $33,000.00 + HST CAD or a 2024 Prius Prime SE will cost me $38,500.00 + HST. Both drive really nice but I do want an SUV. I know the resale will be much better on the Prius but I've been eyeing an EV for sometime and driven cars for too long where I want something a little more comfortable to drive. I plan on driving my next vehicle til the wheels fall off basically so resale for me isn't as huge as a factor and by buying a EV used, already saving on the initial depreciation. I do feel like the Prius Prime will outlast the BZ4X but who knows?
That is a tough decision. I feel the pull on the more spacious SUV, however, is that the first year of the BZ4X? I know it's Toyota but I just, I'm not convinced their full EV's are that good yet. A friend of mine just got the new Mazda PHEV (first year) and it's been in the shop NINE times in the first few months. It's a nightmare. It could be different with Toyota.. I really haven't looked into that vehicle in particular... maybe it's a sick deal but if you want something that will last long, I think you know the answer there.
Yeah me too. We just bought an EV so, well I mean I hope I have no need to swap the battery, but if it eve needs to happen it doesn't cost as much as it does now!
Toyota PHEVs will force the engine to run if not running enough. But it's not something I'd recommend.the smart money, maybe two second hand cars, an EV and a petrol. I don't know. I got Corolla TS 196 (hybrid), but in Europe, it's not that straight forward. They keep messing around and deciding one thing, then another two months later, it's not the market deciding anymore, just a bunch of unelected idiots. Anyway... All I know is that if I can get 10, 12 years out of my car, I'll be happy. Then, whatever. Maybe I'll keep it, go to ethanol, or sell it to finish its life as a taxi in Morocco. I could go electric, install solar panels, but that's not an option for everyone. EVs are a pain and very expensive if you can't recharge at home, and it's not gonna get better.
Yeah I hear you... luckily for us, electricity is quite cheap compared to in Europe so full EV/PHEV are quite attractive for now. I mean it's tough to find that sweet spot right... a vehicle that is efficient, fun, and affordable? We just pulled the trigger on an EV, but I could see how it's not the right choice for everyone.
I've heard nothing but good things from the Chevy Volts! I wish we got on that train years ago. I've always been a little worried about Chevy's though you know? I haven't had the best experiences with Domestic vehicles throughout owning cars over the last 25 years.
I think this is old thinking being improperly applied to new tech, specifically with the depreciation for EVs. Fundamentally, the plummeted resale value of electric cars recently has been because of technological innovation rather than the asset in question losing its functionality/deteriorating. Remember, 5-year depreciation figures by definition lag 5 years behind the current models. I think the technology has matured significantly in recent years, leaving much less maturation in the near-mid term future. Take the Apple's MacBooks. The resale price of an x64 MacBook air is ~30% original price but an M1 is ~70%, because there is relatively less maturation between M1 -> M3/4 than from x86 -> M1. I believe 2024+ Model 3 and 2021+ S/X will see significantly less "depreciation" than older models, so I think it's worth it. Or just buy a 2021-2023 Model 3 for like $28k US and call it a day!
I think you make a great point and I do agree with you. Unlike Apple however there is a lot more competition and marketing in the auto industry which makes what you mentioned easy to forget. Heck just watch any sporting game and see the amount of car ads that play. It's crazy! I think when it comes to Tesla specifically, because they were so far away from the competition experience wise... While guys like me have wanted to jump on board for years, I worried about rickety build quality as all my friends with 2018/2019 Tesla's said they rattle years later though they still run well. My cousin has a 2021 Model Y that she wants to sell and my wife and I wonder if we should consider hers or if it's worth the extra 15k for buying new. Tough call. I'll chew more on what you said 👊
I think picking up your cousin's Model Y would be a great idea! 1) You know that specific unit's build quality 2) You get a big discount on the price compared to a new one 3) You trust the previous owner and know they aren't hiding any big problems/repairs from you I don't own a car currently but the sheer thought of having to do (& pay for) the maintenance on one drives me insane, so personally I would LOVE the lack of it on an EV
@alejandrowilcox8198 those are all great points. It sure makes a big difference buying a used anything from a trusted source. Those 2021s still look pretty slick too! But yeah having a vehicle is a lot. We've managed to only have one vehicle for so long which is just been great but every now and then there's a time where we need two vehicles. It's just so much cost for not very often you know? Hard to justify.
I'm not math wizard but my wife is an accountant and we've got years of data to work with. We JUST pulled the trigger on an EV so it'll be interesting once we get some data to really see how accurate those numbers were. I'll keep ya posted 👊
În Europe cost of gas vs energy is similar.. (same amount of money spent for both to drive the car, especially on long distances) ...(high speed). EV car is better if you can charge it for free... Home solar panels(which must be bought/installed first....)
Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything other than a Japanese car, and Toyota and Honda are right there for me. Even Nissan are getting better without Ghosn there. But PHEV, Toyota has the upper hand I think, although Mitsubishis look good, and Australia loves them.
I'm kind of right there with you... I hear great things about Lexus but they seem a little out of range financially though I really haven't looked into it. My folks and best bud have Mitsi phevs and are happy with them... Who knows what the resell will be like on 5+ years though. Will anyone want them? I wouldn't want a 2019 Outlander PHEV really... The range would be so bad. My folks is a 2022 with a battery range of about 40kms... My friend just got a 2024 and says he gets 80-90 per charge but he's a bit of an exaggerater. They say online it only gets 61. That's still 50% more range in just two years though.
I personally dont care about getting new cars every so often, i want something that isn’t going to break down constantly and require a lot of maintenance, i dont care if my car is 10 years old or older, as long as it gets me where im going and looks pretty im good with an EV
@@TheSAHDLifeim loving the look on Tesla model 3 currently, pretty good range, super charging is super available around me as well as normal charging, I honestly would hold on to that car until it literally can’t be driven anymore
EVs are riding on the backs of all other electricity consumers. Generation and grid buildout for "everyone" to drive EVs will more than triple electricity costs. Then add in road and other taxes EV drivers currently sleaze out of paying. Insurance pricing also needs dramatic upticks to pay their way. The subsidies are unsustainable. No, Remote Combustion Vehicles (EVs) are not even close to a net positive for society. This is yet another NIMBY toy for the well off at the expense of everyone else.
Why not adding the expensive maintenance i the Toyota cars? You will have to add extra cost every second year which will brake the Toyota calculation by far.
It's a good point... but every car has maintenance, and since I haven't owned an HEV, PHEV, or EV I just had to speculate and draw the line somewhere. I know even EV's need brakes/tires/tire rods, etc... and that really has been the only thing we've had to invest in with our 10 year old ICE vehicle outside of things that were fixed within the warranty window.
The EV won’t wear out the tires any more than any other car if you don’t accelerate like a maniac. M3 and My are far safer in a serious accident than any other cars. They are far less likely to catch on fire in an accident since they don’t have gasoline. The LFP batteries in the newer EVs are much less likely to cause a fire compared to NMC batteries in older cars. The plug is hybrid has all the maintenance of ICE and EV ,so more points of failure. The resale value of cars at ten years is based on the idea that we’re going to drive it another ten years. If I planned to keep it that long ,I’d prefer a straight gas powered Toyota over the plug in due to its simplicity for maintenance reasons. The M3 will likely last 20 years also and be left with a valuable home storage battery or valuable recycle item. The fact that in ten years range anxiety will move to ICE cars because there won’t be enough market for gasoline to justify the production and distribution costs will make gas stations like the livery stables you see on every corner where you leave your horse when you go into the city. I love my 2004 Highlander and will probably drive it the rest of my driving career. I might even buy another used one if it was cheap enough. I would never buy any new ICE vehicle at this point in time even if it was as good as the Highlander.
Interesting take. I have a feeling gas stations will be around for quite some time still but it'll be interesting to see what happens. No one really has any clue. That's awesome you've had a great experience with the highlander. That's what we've kind of been considering as our only family vehicle. An eevee would be cool as the secondary car for getting around town but we don't really need one quite yet so we'll wait as long as we can before we get a second vehicle.
Engine servicing vs EV. Here is France an annual service costs about €450 for our Peugeot Diesel engine. Our Tesla costs the same for tyres every two years. I think the most relevant issue is the EV tech being out dated over time, whereas engines haven’t changed much over the last 30 years.
Yeah that's an interesting point. My wife was wondering why anybody would want to lease a vehicle last night, and my thought was that while an eevee would be nice right now for fuel savings but in 3 to 4 years there might be SSD batteries out which could be a huge game changer. Feels like we're in a very transitional stage right now so it's tough to invest in fully. They're still quite expensive here in Canada anyway. We don't quite have as many diesels as you do in Europe so we're stuck with the gas ice engines.
@@TheSAHDLife The diesel thing has been a huge scam. There are very few and select reasons for why anyone would need a diesel engined car in Europe but when you see the number of small diesel cars around, it’s astonishing. I drew a comparison between servicing a diesel car for two years here in France (about €900) and tyres every two years for an ev (about €800-900). I think the biggest reason for why anyone would need to hold off while battery technology changes (it probably always will) is likely obsolescence. I’m looking at selling our 3yr old Model 3 (facelifted this year and with a new battery) and buying a PHEV as I think it will be more appropriate while the EV world develops.
@@TheSAHDLife the answer to that question currently eludes me. If I sold the Model 3 and the Peugeot, that might achieve €50k. Like it or not, I seem to keep cars for three years or less, so if I approach it with that in mind, the worst that could happen would be an annoyance for a couple of years. The Model 3 has been an annoyance for three years and the likelihood of me ever buying another diminishes with every comment from Musk. I think i’m after a phev SUV eg. size of a Volvo xc60, Polestar with comfort, quietness, smoothness and efficiency. Something that wafts about effortlessly and which doesn’t handle like a barge. Volvo troubles me due to reliability and bizarre devaluation.
A long range ev is the way to if you can charge at home and drive less than 150 miles a day otherwise hybrid. Phevs are just not worth it it has the inconvenience of changing and the maintenance or ice car worst of both worlds
Yeah I think that's a good way of looking at it. My friend drives about 50 miles a day and takes road trips every month which is about 200 miles away... he bought a 7 seat Outlander PHEV and for HIM it makes sense as he can go EV during his day then use the gas on the trips... but for most people I agree with what you said.
in my personal opinion . buy EV and plug in Hybrids only if you can charge at home whit solar pannels . no charge at home only one option left . full Hybrid . gas and good to go .
I had owned a 4Runner for 7 years and 120,000 miles. Bought new for $46k. I got $20k when I sold it and bought Tesla model 3 Long Range AWD. I had spent over $25k just in gas to drive my 4Runner. If I would buy Tesla I would save $17k just in gas. So my 4Runner had cost me $43k combined gas and depreciation. And I paid $45k for my Tesla. So basically Tadlą can be worth 0 after 7 years and it will cost me the same as haven Toyota 4Runner.
Yeah I was kinda feeling that way too when I was mathing it out... even if you get ZERO resale, at the end you were left with a great time driving around with barely spending money on fuel. It all seems to even out. We are still on the one vehicle but seem to lean more and more towards the EV. The EV would be a no-brainer for a second vehicle, but if we just replace our ONE family vehicle it's still a harder decision.
Another idiot comparing an off-road tank with light passenger car.....why didn't you just toss in a moped while you were at it. Try comparing a Toyota Corolla and see how stupid your numbers are Goober
Your 4Runner isn’t a smooth ride like a Tesla model 3. The speakers are much better and the comfort overall is beyond a Toyota. In 7 years the price of fuel will go up while increasing Sun Wind and Battery power will make electricity cheaper.
@@marcc.490 Scary to think people like you roam the streets, or worse even vote. 4-Runner is an off road vehicle, not a car dummy....no comparison. Electricity will NEVER get cheaper with solar or wind...not possible, and fuel only goes up because of Marxist democrats in office that refuse to drill for oil. Your Tesla piece of shit will be dead at 120,000 miles and need a new battery at $20,000. Get off moms computer kid....
Yes, the much higher depreciation when coming to selling it or trading it in and replacing the battery. New battery technology will be much better by then and a newer much better cheaper vehicle by then. I would stick with hybrid or plug in hybrid for now. As long as your vehicle is running well for now it all good.
Road conditions, elevation and terrain affects range for EVs which contributes to range anxiety. Thus Plug in Hybrid or Hybrid is still more robust and reliable as compared to full EVs.
That's definitely something I wonder about. We still haven't committed to one yet... though I lean towards EV for us since we do 99% of our driving around town and could plug in every night. In a perfect world we'd have a bigger hybrid for family trips and a small EV for scurrying around town.
Good details video . But lots of research shows the 10yrs old tesla still have over 80% battery health and there is main reason cars cost more and it's performance. Those cars you are comparing has no close performance to tesla. Unlike this days you can buy audi s3 30k less than audi rs3 this 2 car have similar body and tech only main difference is engine and performance. There are some ev that cost 20 k with less performance and that will be decent comparison than tesla. All tesla model 3 run 0-100km in under 5 sec. Toyota prius is like 10 sec. So not close comparison and it's kind of misleading. Thanks
So, on researching this video I found that in Canada, the base model Tesla 3 does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. The new Prius Primes do it in 6.6 seconds! They aren't quite the same but they are MUCH better than before which is why I consider it. But still... I hear what you are saying. And while a lot of older Tesla's have usable batteries, there are also a LOT of people who don't have that great long term experience. My friend has a 2018 and said all the doors are loose and the car doesn't feel tight like his 2018 Toyota 4runner. Just interesting. The new model 3s look sweet though and I want one!
neither there big problems with them here now the battery going down to 1.6 on charge problems electric cars telsla has many issues get hot inside as my mate got one there losing money imagine $100k now selling $65k nah I rather petrol /gasolina u call it because I can keep driving where battery telsla cost $20k gudluck buy them crap cars
Yeah they are a LOT of money right? Money you just might lose or not get back... you gotta admit though, riding around in them is kinda sweet hehe. They fast!
If a smart buyer purchases a preowned EV, when somebody else footed the bill of depreciation, and keeps untill dead then the EV resale value and depreciation absolutely doesn't matter. Don't believe fairytales about batteries being dead in 10 years unless you plan to charge them daily to 100% and discharge daily to 0%.
Not sure what you were trying to say in that first half but yeah I test drove the Ionic and the Kona last weekend. The Ionic is sick and the Kona is not bad but jeez, the features you get in the base Model Tesla compared to them is so much different.
I own all 3 (2023 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, 2024 Cadillac Lyriq EV). I agree completely with your assessment of the pluses and minuses of all three. I absolutely love driving my Cadillac Lyriq, but it is not as great for long road trips and I am not expecting it to have great resale value. My Chevy Volt (a car ahead of its time) is truly the best of all worlds. It allows for long road trips, but also satisfying daily gas free driving. The Highlander Hybrid is our long road trip warrior with great comfort. They are all amazing vehicles! I am just praying that the EV cars last as long as possible, but I am prepared to throw them away when the batteries die.
Great comment! Thanks for sharing. And that's a fun little fleet of vehicles you have. What made you decide on the Lyriq? Is it pretty slick with nice power? We just picked up a Model 3 (releasing my video in the morning) as a commuter and it's been great. Like you I'm hoping it will last a LONG time and not lose power or anything soon :)
@@TheSAHDLifeThe Lyriq is a beautiful luxury AWD medium sized SUV that is probably the best value available for a fully electric vehicle. The Ultium Battery architecture is also impressive engineering. We were able to get our fully loaded Lyriq for about $61,000 after all rebates and incentives. I couldn’t resist. It’s a Cadillac with exhilarating pickup and it’s the quietest car on the market. We also have a dealership that can service it in our small city, that wasn’t the case for a Tesla.
Another option to consider for your American audience is leasing an EV. They have some pretty crazy lease deals in the US right now. There are multiple models you can lease for around the same monthly/annual rate you calculated for your other options So you can lease for 3 years, have fun driving and make your choice 3 years later when there will hopefully be better tech and less expensive EVs available.
Yeah that's a good idea. I think I might have to make a video talking about all the leasing options because it's not something I've truly ever dived into and done the math on. It'll be interesting to see the new Model Y's coming out too, maybe that'll be the catalyst for me hehe.
I agree with you. It's about 15 miles round trip from home to work. My work has the free level 2 charger in the garage. I test drove ford escape phev, and I actually like it. I calculate about $400 per year for gas, maybe a lot less, if i get the ford escape phev. Comparing me. Driving my car, I spent about $3000-3600 per year for gas. Plus, it's expensive full coverage insurance. I do use my electric fast scooter sometimes. No car payments or loan. One that makes me not buy the car is car payments for next 3-4 years. Hadd to decide..
Hard to decide indeed. We've ramped up our driving and think we've decided on the Tesla Model 3 base model since it has the LFP battery and is just chock full of features while still qualifying for the FULL ev rebates here in Canada. It took us a lot of research to get here. I test drove the Kona yesterday and it was decent but just lacks so many features you get in the Tesla.
@TheSAHDLife I was about to buy a tesla model 3 before the pandemic. I didn't pull the trigger because of the charging issue. My house garage has the 240-volt connection, but knowing me, I will forget to charge the car since I usually forget to charge my phone. That's why I am leaning to plug in hybrid. It's very hard decision. I usually drive japanese cars like infiniti, lexus, and subaru. I had a bmw 3 series with the dual clutch transmission. I am financially free and really don't want an auto loan for next 3-4 years.. Hopefully, the plug in hybrid will get more electric miles and I definitely will pull the trigger
@@windblower5 The wife and I JUST made the decision we are going Tesla Model 3 for our 2nd car and getting the base model rwd as it qualifies for the FULL rebates in Canada and comes with incredible features in the base model (air cooled seats, screen in the back for the kids, seat memory, etc). We have done SO much research but this seems like the best thing for us. If it would be our only car it might be a different decisions but since we have a AWD ICE SUV for the family the Tesla it is. Although I'm a little concerned about being a Tesla owner to be honest. I have zero interest in talking about Elon.
13 year old PHEV, the only one that exists. 45-55 miles (80km) of ev range. put 35k miles (56k km) on it last year. since my partner and I are in healthcare, we are always driving a medium (40-70 miles) distance to a hospital which always have chargers... including road trips, we averaged 104 mpg (2.6l/100km) last year. i figure we saved around 2500-3000$ on gas here. our electric bill went up 7$/mo lol. I offset a good amount of that by adding solar panels to the roof which feed into the 12v system, which i replaced with a 4kwh battery i built for 230 bucks. i believe we did about 5-6k miles on the motor with just a couple dozen heat cycles (~15% of driving, all hwy). considering we only paid 6000 usd for the car... we are doing alright. and apparently with the phev craze going on right now, the resell value has gone up to 9k, probably the only category of car that is increasing in value right now. imo the prius prime is a joke with its battery size. the truith is, if you actually want to save money, youre not buying a new car, and there is only one cheap PHEV in the US, its the chevy volt. dont buy a 60k$ prius prime in the highest trim level "coz thats all thats available", and pretend youre saving money by capturing 25k of depreciation before you sell the car rofl. my car is free to drive in a few more months, and my insurance is 21$/month. the gen1 volts will go for 400-500k miles, think about it, you are only using the motor for long hwy driving at a steady rpm range, the engine is port injected (not direct so no carbon fouling), low compression ratio of 10:1 (direct injection cars run 15:1), the head of the motor is an iron block which doesnt expand and cause head gasket issues at 200k miles like hondas/anything with an aluminum head, there is not really a transmission, just one solid gear in a planetary gear system that is rarely used (gen 2's have a big belt thats basically a CVT to save money), the timing chain is barely doing any work except to keep the engine at a steady rpm, the breaks dont even wear out coz of regen breaking. most of the car is made from aluminum to save weight, weighs the same as a model Y despite having a motor, and the battery cooling system is the most overbuilt one ever mass produced, and the battery is inside the cab so it experiences less temp extremes or impact from a crash. the only other thing you worry about is super/fast charging ratio, which thankfully the car cant super charge so you dont have to worry about the battery being destroyed by an uber driver. there is no alinator or starter motor, even the air conditioner is electronic and runs at high efficiency 350v dc, one of the first ones. ironically toyota is paying chevy for their patents since the new primes copied most of the drive train.
Cool take, thanks for taking the time to share. Sounds like you've saved a pile of money, that's fantastic! So... let's say that car dies or gets destroyed, whatever... would you go and buy a Volt right now?
@@TheSAHDLife already did for my girlfirend. she was using mine so much, she decided she wanted one over her 2015 honda civic. we got another 2014 chevy volt around 8 months ago, i believe it was 7800 usd. same color, similar trim package. imo the leather seats are a lot more comfy (important coz we do lots of driving) and i would try to get a model with heated seats since it boosts the range significantly in the winter. thought it was funny that she got jealous of my older car and gave her newer car to her sister to buy an older model. guess i didnt answer your question. ya i think i would. i only want 1 car for myself but dont want any sacrafices. im one of those people who thinks the end of the world is comming so off grid/self reliance stuff is important to me. no one alive to remember the gas rationing during ww2. i think it was like 5 gallons per week. good luck getting to work or doing anything
Thanks for the comment! Really appreciate it. I love talking about this stuff! It's a tough decision but hopefully I gave people some things to consider. What would you buy right now if you could or had to?
@@TheSAHDLife I like the idea of charging at home for 50/60 miles range but also having an ICE back up, so a phev for me, if I was in the market. Do you like or watch Out of Spec Motors with Kyle? He’s an entertaining EV geek
You cannot turn the output shaft on an internal combustion engine by hand because it so full of shit, It takes effort even with with a long ½ inch breaker bar So much complexity, most of which has negative effect and/or is not to produce power but to overcome the inherent problems of the internal combustion engines design that cannot be engineered out * Cooling system * Oil system * Cylinder, Piston, Rings * Crankshaft * Camshaft and Lifter system * Valves & valve Springs * Ignition System * Fuel Injection system * Exhaust System * Turbocharger * Supercharger * Clutch-Torque Converter * Transmission * Dozens of Emission Systems * Dozens of Diagnostic systems You can turn an electric motor's output shaft with your bare hand The electric motor only need a handful of supporting components to function A V8 ice engine has a few power pulses during one revolution of the crankshaft but don't forget about that compression stroke, valve springs, and the internal friction sucking up that power even before it leaves the output shaft The electric motor has dozens of power pulses during one revolution of the output shaft with very little internal friction
Little bit unfair to compare the Prius with the model 3. There Prius offers a lot less space. I see the point of doing this: both most efficient and popular in their class, but still. With a different cat to compared it would probably slightly shift more towards the EV, but the overall result would be probably the same. I guess the most important point is that solid state batteries are around the corner.. on the other side, some countries (not US though) are discussing to ban (new) ICEs in 10 years. This would also heavily affect the value of such cars 🫣. Therefore I tend towards leading at the moment. Which is not really cheap either though 😅. I guess for best savings, the best is to buy a used car. They lost already a large chunk of their value. And if you later resell, it will not lose as much value anymore.
If I could afford it I'd buy an EV right now. But the solid state batteries coming out just like you said is making it a little bit hard to make that decision.... I've never considered leasing a vehicle in my life but I think I might do a video where I map that out and see what that could be like... I would also consider used EV but they're still so expensive up here.
Get a Tesla Long Range RWD Model 3 and it will pay for itself. It's less than $35k right now after the $7,500 federal rebate in America, Canada probably has similar rebates. You get 363 miles of range. It goes 0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds. It's battery is guaranteed for eight years. It's wicked comfortable and quiet. It has the a state of the art security system. It the best self driving cruise control on the planet. It has a lot more room than a Prius Prime. It has the Tesla supercharger network. It's also become the most reliable EV on the planet, and it's the most efficient EV on the planet. With the Prius Prime you have spark plugs, oil changes, tune ups, timing chains and other gas engine maintenance, AND you will have to replace the battery. Further, it's a boring noisy ice car. It won't travel as well as the LR RWD Model 3. A Prius is nowhere close to being as comfortable and easy to drive as a Model 3. BTW, you can't find a Prius Prime to buy right now. Toyota doesn't make very many of them. Also, 10 years from now you won't be able to sell an ice car because everything will be electric. Plug in hybrids are already obsolete. Really it's a no-brainer. Buy a LR RWD Model 3. It currently is the best EV made if you consider overall cost, value and luxury. The only downside is that you will lose range in the winter. But because you charge at home, that will not affect you that much. You also can easily drive to California with a Model 3 with the Tesla supercharger network. I own the Model 3 and it's a superb highway car. The updated 2024 Highland version is even better, a lot better, than my 2022 Model 3.
You make a compelling case! The only downside is here in Canada they cost about $60,000 for the long range model 3... That puts it at a price point outside of the full rebates available (I think it's for cars under $50,000). That price combined with the high interest rates right now make it just a little too expensive salt. If it was at the price you were saying we would probably do it for sure.
@@TheSAHDLife I think you are referring to the AWD Long Range Model 3, which is substantially higher in price than the RWD Long Range Model 3 that Tesla has just put out. Right now in America, Tesla is offering a RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) Long Range Model 3 for approximately $42,000 before any rebates. In America, the $7,500 rebate drops the price to approximately $34,900 before tax, license and dealer fees. You should have that same option to buy a RWD, Long Range Model 3. Note that your prices will vary widely because Canada's extreme-left, radical government taxes the living hell out of you. So you will need to check your local pricing. The LR, RWD Model 3 is the perfect car for you because it has 363 miles of range, and if you drive it conservatively in temperate weather, it will get that range. Several TH-cam videos have come out that verify this. You seem to want a lot of range, but you could buy the base model RWD Model 3, which costs about $4,500 USD less and still get close to 300 miles of range. I own the 2022 RWD Model 3, and I love this car. It is simply amazing. The Base model, RWD Model 3 is very fast, has almost every feature of the Long Range versions and here in America, it is $4,500 cheaper than the Long Range RWD. It will get 272 miles of range if you drive conservatively in temperate weather. With all versions of the Model 3 (or any EV, for that matter), you lose 20-40% of your range in very hot or very cold weather. In the city, you will likely get nearly 300 miles of range in temperate weather with the base model IF you drive it conservatively. All of the Model 3 versions lose range if you drive very fast and accelerate fast. But if you are in the city, range loss in the winter won't be an issue, so you won't have to worry about driving conservatively. One other factor to consider is that the base model RWD Model 3 has an LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery bank chemistry, and LFP batteries lose VERY little of their total range over time. My 2022 Model 3 has an LFP battery, which has over 80,000 miles on it and 97% of its original battery capacity. In temperate weather, I can get as much range as when this car was new. Considering that I live in Arizona and we have just gone through a string of 60 days of temperature ranging from 105 - 118 degrees F, this is a remarkable achievement. The LFP batteries are turning out to be the most durable, long-lasting batteries on the planet. They should easily go 200,000 - 300,000 miles and keep over 90% of their capacity. Conversely, both the LR AWD and the LR RWD Model 3 cars do NOT have LFP batteries. Their batteries are good, but they degrade 10% - 15% in the first three years. Another advantage of the RWD base Model 3 is that it can be charged regularly to 100%, and it won't degrade the battery. The LR AWD and RWD Model 3 versions recommend charging to 80% because they have NMC batteries and they will degrade if charged regularly to 100%. So, for city driving, the base Model 3 with LFP batteries is the superior choice if you are going to keep the car for a long time. The Model 3 equipped with LFP batteries will also have a higher resale value than more expensive Model 3s with NMC batteries. You seem really money conscious, and I understand that. YOu might also consider buying a used 2022 base Model 3 RWD with LFP batteries in it for the short term if you can get a good buy. Here in America, there is a $4,000 rebate, so I was able to get my 2022 Model 3 for $18,900 after the rebate. It had 77 314 miles on it, but because it has the LFP battery, that doesn't matter that much. I plan to drive this car until the solid-state battery EV Tesla cars start coming out in 2027. Now, think about this. If I drive this car for three years, it will pretty much pay for itself in gas savings alone, and right now, I could sell it for the same price I paid for it on the used market. I probably would get more than I paid for it because I cleaned the radiators (it has two radiators) on the car and that dramatically improved its range and battery ratings. Honestly, for you, I would try to get a great deal from Tesla on a NEW RWD base Model 3. It has a lot of room for your family, it has a rear infotainment screen to entertain your kids on trips. They can watch movies and play games on it. It has almost all of the same features and the more expensive Model 3 versions have, there is very little difference. It has an LFP battery, which will last a very long time and maintain 90 - 97% of its capacity. Here in America, there is no federal rebate, but in Canada, you will get the full $7,000 off of the cost. Everything will be under warranty. The battery will have a full 8-year warranty. The base Model 3, with the LFP battery, has a pretty good resale value with the lower costs that Tesla has implemented. It's VERY fast, it will get 300 of miles of range in the city in temperate weather. It costs very little to charge it. It gets 5 MILES PER KW in the city. That efficiency is unheard of. it has luxury suspension. If you pay $99.00 a year Tesla will connect your car to the internet, which is a streaming deal. it has luxury sound deadening. The only real maintenance is to keep the radiators clean, and you can buy screen filters to do keep bugs, dirt, rocks, leaves and other debris from collecting on the two radiators on Amazon for $30.00. Based on the pricing you have mentioned, the base Model 3 RWD with the LFP battery with the $7000 dollar Canadian government rebate would probably be cheaper than the Prius Prime. And as I mentioned, right now it's tough to find a Prius Prime because Toeyota doesn't make that many of them. I live in the Phoenix metro area, which is the 5th largest city in the nation, and I could only find one Prius Prime that MIGHT be coming in two or three months when I looked at them. I own a 4-wheel Drive Toyota Tacoma, so I am not a Toyota hater, but the Model 3 is better than the RAV 4, the Tacoma, the Camry, and every other Toyota I have ever driven BY FAR. One other thing to consider. The Tesla UI interface is THE standard for the automotive industry. I worked over 8 months last year in New Orleans and I rented a bunch of brand new cars, including the Hyundai Sante Fe, the Rav 4, the Nissan Rogue, the Nissan Murano and other cars and their UI system are like dinosaurs compared to Tesla's UI system. Tesla is better in every way than Toyota's outdated, buggy, hard-to-use software interface on its cars. It's not even close. In my opinion, Model 3 is the best choice by far. And since money and longevity are important to you, I suggest you get the brand new base Model 3 with the LFP battery. It will last longer and have better resale value than the non-LFP battery Model 3 versions. I guarantee you that you won't miss the 600-mile range of the Prius because you can fast-charge the RWD base Model 3 from 10 - 80% (if you precondition the battery in cold weather) in 20 - 25 minutes at Level 3 Tesla Superchargers and Tesla has installed Level 3 chargers along every highway, in every major city and in most midsize cities. My 2022 Model 3 took about 22 minutes to charge from 15-80% at a Tesla supercharger, and it does not charge as fast as the 2024 Model 3. You can travel to any major city using the Tesla supercharger network. It is the best charging network on the planet.
Biggest complaint on ALL three types is the high cost of purchase! I spent $42k on an SE RAV4 Prime in 2021. At the time the MOST expensive car I’d ever owned. Traded it in April 2023 for $42k (yes that’s right) and purchased a $47k Pacifica PHEV. I was happy with the resale value of the Toyota. I’m NOT happy with the value of the pacifica. My KBB is now around $28k with 22k miles. I know, many will say well no shit, it’s a Chrysler, what did you expect?! But, that much of a loss in 15 months is pathetic to me. I may be dating myself, but to me $45k is still A LOT of money for a depreciating asset. These days however, $45k seems to be entry level. Same with houses. Everything is inflated and overpriced. For millions of people the cost of any of these; HEV, PHEV, or full BEV is simply too high. What we need are fuel efficient AND affordable cars (all three types) that start at $20k!! I guess I should keep dreaming though because that isn’t going to happen I guess. The Chinese seem to have figured it out with their BYD cars though..
Yeah that's really interesting. Hopefully your Pacifica (which is a really nice vehicle btw... we've considered it) lasts for years and even though on paper doesn't hold high value, is a workhorse for your family. I feel the same as you about the price point... we bought our Sante Fe in 2014 and even though the engine died on us... they replaced it for free outside of warranty and it's running really well. If it was a Toyota we could probably still sell it for 20k right now, but we'll probably still be able to drive it for 5+ years at which point I feel like we will have gotten our monies worth. But yeah, I hear a lot of good things about BYD.
In ten years you would have a worn out hybrid, you dont mention brake jobs, exhaust systems, water pump and timing belt , emissions parts and the price of gas in ten years. If you bought a tesla in ten years you could swap out for a new battery pack if you even need one. Postpone your purchase for two years get a new tesla with a million mile battery and the ability to turn on FSD, which wasn't mentioned but if your my age is an absolute game changer.
Yeah I hear you 👊 I've never considered leading before but that almost seems like a decent idea right now... Lease for a few years then buy an EV. We've had an ice car for 10 years now. It hadn't been too crazy with regular maintenance. That would be sweet of it was cheaper with an electric though.
There are 2 more brands besides Tesla able to use Superchargers with adapters: Ford, Rivian. In 2025 most EVs will be able to use Superchargers natively or with adapters. By 2026 only compliance vehicles wouldn't be able to charge on CCS1 or NACS: VW eGolf, Mercedes-Benz B class EV, Ford Focus EV, Nissan Leaf, Fiat 500 old EV, Mitsubishi iMiev, Kia Soul EV. Even today in the fall of 2024 there are plenty of EV choices besides Teslas.
We've been car shopping lately and while you are right, there is a lot of variety, from our research, the value and features you get from Tesla still seems to be ahead of the pack. It's a tough choice (especially with Elon being insane) but it seems like Tesla still seems a tiny bit a head in the EV world. We'll see how long that lasts.
@@TheSAHDLife To me some extra EV features do not value more than drawbacks: having a harsh ride in Tesla, no choice for 1 pedal driving (in our Chevrolet Bolt EUV Premier we have a button switching from 1 pedal for me to normal for my wife), very high insurance and reparation costs, extreme unreliability starting from constantly breaking door handles, suspension in front, chewing tires, curbing tires, no Android Auto or Apple play, coupe shape compromising rear seats/luggage. I support Ukraine. I will never pay money for creepy RuZZian troll Elon Musk.
@@TheSAHDLife Both me and my wife appreciate comfortable ride which is provided outside harsh ride in Tesla. Besides in depth of Pacific North West of USA and Western Canada there is a very scary situation for using EVs for long trips in the winter. I believe the place is ideal for a home charged dedicated commuter EV. With that in mind we own a Chevrolet Bolt EUV Premier. We don't need or use DC chargers. Therefore have no need for a harsh riding, costly insured Tesla from a RuZZian troll Elon Musk.
I own a 2018 Hyundai Ioniq plug in hybrid which get 52mph on gas and 29 on full EV. Let me tell you it's not worth it to use the EV only in California. Using gas is way cheaper. 52mph with gas for $4.59 per gallon or 29 miles on EV for $4.26 as of writing this. It's a no brainer. A full hybrid is better in CA. Maybe in cheaper states like in the south or midwest where electricity is cheap. But then again, gas is also cheap where electricity is cheap.
That's really interesting. We just picked up an EV and our fuel savings are incredible... But like you said we live in a place where electricity is very cheap so for us it's a huge deal. Are you happy with the Hyundai ioniq overall?
@TheSAHDLife yes. It's a great car. I can drive 632 miles on a full tank and full charge. Very reliable car also. I just wish it had faster acceleration. 0 to 60 in 9 seconds is pretty slow. I guess because I've been driving sports cars all my life and got used to 5 to 6 second 0 to 60's
I would love to have a Tesla If I could afford one as for the battery I am sure the future Solid state batteries will be able to replace current batteries.
One aspect that is often overlooked for PHEV, is that if you use it in EV mode all the time, your engine and fuel are going to go bad and you'll have premature damage to those. It's difficult to find a place where PHEV would be the best choice. If you do a lot of long trips, a HEV is probably your best choice if you can't live with an extra 20 minutes of charging time (also electricity on fast chargers is not cheap). PHEVs will have bigger consumption because of the extra-weight and you wouldn't get as much benefit of a bigger battery. If you do very few long trips in a year, an EV is a good choice as you won't have those 20 minutes extra a lot of times in the year. A PHEV would probably suffer premature degradation of engine and battery (since the battery is smaller, you do more cycles, even-though it should still last quite long and will be replaced for cheaper). On paper, PHEV is a great idea and I was planning to buy the Prius PHEV. But I ended up with an EV instead after doing all my research because I would be using it in EV mode for 6 months straight so very bad for the ICE. And the EV is so much more fun to drive. Regarding tires, it depends on how you drive. I get the same millage between my EV and my ICE on a set of tires.
Interesting comment! I would have guessed they would have thought of that (gas remaining in the vehicle in some cases for months on end) but maybe they didn't. What EV did you end up getting? And yeah, I mean to be honest the range would never be an issue for us if we went straight EV. We both work from home and it would be a commuter 99% of the time. We could use our other vehicle for long trips though we don't fully trust it won't die on us again (Hyundai!)... but it does have a new engine in it.
Our Ford Kuga PHEV starts the gas engine every now and then to keep it working. It does make it use more gas than it should "need" to looking at our driving patterns.
Our family got a duel-fuel Kia Sportage SX (PHEV) just 7 months ago in March of 2024. Even though we live quite a distance for work (70 km), we are averaging about 80% of all kilometers being EV only, achieving over 93% over the last few weeks. Our fuel savings are more than $55 (Canadian) a every week as compared to the turbo-4 gas version. Also, I'm happy to report that the EV range (in the summer) on the highway @ 105 km/hr matches the manufacturers estimate of about 54 kms, however, if you choose to drive country roads between 70 and 90 km/hr, you'll see EV range of 65+ km like we do every week. Our max EV range was over 70 km on 1 charge BUT that was in perfect conditions and averaging about 70 km/hr. Did we consider the Rav 4 Prime plugin? Yes, but not for long given the 10k price premium, loud engine, and over lack of cabin refinement. Rav 4 prime has much more power (300+ vs the Sportage phev's 264) BUT I still find the 224 lb/ft of torque the pancake motor makes on our PHEV more than adequate in town and on the highway too! Sport mode is INCREDIBLE and has all the grunt you could want, easily outpacing our previous Acura RL 3.5 V6. There is simply no comparison on interiors and tech (kia vs. Toyota) as Kia is loaded with every creature comfort, not least of which is the HDA (highway drive assist) which is completely addicting. On well marked roads (even off- highway) I always have it engaged. Conclusion, I would agree that dual fuel vehicles like PHEVs are the right choice in this time where industries are transitioning as it gives our family the best of both worlds. Crazy savings weekly on gas, crazy quiet and smooth ev driving and 5.8 l/100kms on our recent 1300km 3 day road trip!! (We were able to charge up twice over night) Without charging, we still averaged 6.3 l/100km on the highway with cruise set to 65 mphr/ 106 km/hr. Setting cruise to 120 km/hr drops our hwy efficiency down to 7.8 l/100km (no thanks). If your goal is to save money, pollute less, and drive the future without constant range anxiety, PHEVs are my recommendation!
This is a great comment thank you for taking the time. It really surprises me when I see the fuel economy being so much different the faster that you go. Very eye-opening and it's neat to see some actual numbers and data.
To be honest I think any one of them is a good option depending on your needs. For us because we are a one family vehicle I just don't think that Ev is versatile enough for us.... So a hybrid or plug-in hybrid would be amazing. But if we end up keeping our gas car and getting a second vehicle then a EV would be perfect for getting around town and 100% charging it at home. Which plug-in would you get?!
Yeah that's bonkers!!! It seems on average they last for a very long time with minimal degradation. I mean even at 80% battery which is usually like 10 years later that is still lots of range for around town. I wouldn't want it as my main vehicle though.
Yeah I hear you... I was just sharing which one we would consider. We would probably only buy the Tesla long range... then for the Prius Prime, the SE is tempting because it gets the extra range. So it was more like which models were interesting to us, not base model vs base model kind of thing.
@@TheSAHDLife Don't bother with the long range; you don't need it. RWD is cheaper, you can charge the battery to 100% daily, and the battery is more durable.
If you can - get the smallest, simplest gasoline vehicle that meets your needs. No hybrid, no EV - get something like a used Yaris. The overall savings will vastly surpass any electric type car and simple cars are relatively low cost to repair. A Yaris can last 500,000 miles. Don't buy with your ego.
Yeah I hear that. We aren't opposed to that idea especially since our second vehicle will only really be for dropping kids off and errands etc... for our main vehicle it's nice to have something a little safer when we're going on the freeway with kids etc you know? But yeah, good idea.
you forgot to factor the people you are helping kill with your ice vehicle. According to the WWW : "Globally, it is estimated that vehicle exhaust emissions are responsible for approximately 385,000 premature deaths each year. This includes the impacts from various pollutants such as fine particulate matter (PM2.5) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which are known to cause respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, among other health problems.The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that outdoor air pollution causes about 4.2 million premature deaths annually, while studies indicate that total deaths from all anthropogenic air pollution sources could be as high as 8.8 million per year". Do you care?
"helping kill people" is certainly a way of looking at things! I hear you though. I think most of us just need/want vehicles in our lives so we can get groceries, take our kids places, and explore. We don't think much beyond that when it comes to things like the effects on the earth etc, and yes, I do care and think we should all do our part. I mean that's what the video is about right? I'm asking people what is the next choice (I didn't mention buying an ICE) that we should take. I think the choices I suggested are all better for the environment but perhaps there are more things to consider. I think it's great you are taking that stance, but it feels like you are trying to shame me, and in my opinion, it's not the best way to start a conversation.
I bought a used five year old Chevy volt five years ago. Every penny I've spent on maintenance and repair on this car (which has been a lot) was because of the ICE motor. My fuel costs have gone from about one hundred fifty U.S. in gas to about thirty U.S. in electricity. I am saving every dime I can to be able to afford a good fully electric car. If the pricing for electric cars was equivalent to I.C.E. I would be satisfied fully electric car owner right now.
Bummer to hear about the annoying maintenance you've had with the vehicle but those fuel savings are no joke. Very interesting. What do you think you would get next if you could?
Those oil changes are so annoying. $150 every 12 months. How about waiting for your Tesla to charge in the middle of nowhere.( or your wife on her own?) Toyota or Telsa?? Toyota thanks
Yeah I agree about the charging. I've never liked that idea. I think for us we could get away with charging it at home 100% of the time. But in that scenario when you need to go somewhere far, I don't love it.
The Tesla tells you when and where to charge on trips and the longest I have stopped to charge was 25 minutes. Barely long enough to pee, walk the dog and get a coffee bite to eat while it charges. lol
I believe you've miscalculated. Firstly, hard to imagine you could get $25,000 for any 10-year-old car..... Particularly one with a purchase price of less than $ 50,000. That assumption is nuts. After 10 years of ownership you would be lucky to get 10 to 15% of the purchase price. The other assumption you're making for your calculation is you're comparing honestly priced Toyota to a Tesla which is anything but honest. That's comparing apples and oranges .
Yeah you're not wrong. I kind of realize that later as far as the actual numbers for a 10-year-old vehicle are worth... But I still do think that it would be much easier to resell the Toyota either way. I tried to give a very fair warning that I would have some bad numbers! And yeah Toyota versus Tesla... I mean that's the world we live in! Those are definitely two of the hot sellers these days and even though it might not be fair guys like me are considering each of them.
I I'm looking into purchasing a RAV4 Prime. I would prefer a full EV but wonder if we're still in the early adopter phase of EVS... And what that looks like. I keep my cars for 10 years, usually have over 300,000 km at the end, and they're almost worthless.
@@steve2483 We went to Toyota last week as we wanted to the drive the Prius Prime... they don't have any of them... they don't have any non-Prime Prius in stock!!! He basically said you had to order it without driving it then decide once it arrives if you still want it. Crazy world. So if you really are considering a Prime, if it's anything like it is here you might want to get a deposit down now if you even maybe want it in 3-18 months! 😫
When we ordered our Prime in 2022 the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Prius C. That's half of what we paid when it was new. Thought that was good value.
Such as great presentation, I've had my 2018 (6 year old) Hyundai Ioniq 28kwh for the past 4 years and the battery is 97% health after 73,000kms, It is so much fun to drive and miss all the petrol stations, oil changes etc. Would not go to a petrol car, the extra cost of poor resale value and deprecation value - I do not care, it is fun to drive than driving something that drinks dinosaur juice. Looking forward to my next purchase the long range 77 MG4 EV.
That's awesome! I do like hearing good success stories like this. We want a Hyundai for 10 years but the engine died on us despite parking in the garage and regular maintenance at about 50,000 miles. I'm not going to lie I left a bit of a sour taste in our mouth but it's running great now it has a new engine. You would buy another Hyundai?
@@TheSAHDLife I wish Hyundai continued with their classic Ioniq by now they could have put in a larger battery like a 70 or 80 kwh, the economy in this thing is amazing, in the 77k kms the only issue I had was the charge actuator was faulty and would not charge the car, but this was replaced under warranty no problems since. YES would def buy another but ALAS they do not make EV's like the classic Ioniq anymore so heading over to the MG4 77 as my next purchase.
@@clayton4115 Wow that's really cool. They don't sell those here in North America unfortunately, at least not that I can tell. How long do you thin you will keep your current Ioniq?
@@TheSAHDLife I love driving my current Ioniq however due to the poor state of ev infrastructure here in Australia is it not good for country road trips. Will be upgrading in the next 6 months or so to the MG4 77. The Ioniq is going to my wife as she likes driving it more than her Kia Picanto 😄 and she only does around 5000 kms per year and in a few years time my daughter will get her L's so it may be in the family for quite a while.
Interesting question, and I don't know. If I knew the battery wasn't going to cost $20,000 to replace on a used car that was out of warranty I'd feel a little better about it? Maybe...
You are missing the lost opportunity cost on the extra money you will spend for the full EV. Most of the cost analysis I see on vehicle purchases overlook this factor. That 20k extra you spent on the EV when invested in an appreciating asset over 10 years could totally transform which vehicle makes the most financial sense.
Oh for sure, I thought I tried to address that in the video. I will say that while it is a lost/sunken cost for a lot of people, for others they do get the satisfaction of enjoying the benefits of a more premium products and being early adopters to new technology. That's not worth it for ME but some people really get value from it. But some people are just terrible with money too. Waiting it out and seeing what happens seems to be the smartest options. We don't NEED a vehicle quite yet, it's tough having 1 still but we save so much we will do this I think until we are forced to get a 2nd. What would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I drive an F150, not the hybrid version, but I would consider a plug-in hybrid truck down the road, especially if the tax incentives put them on par with the straight hybrid.
Reality is. Hybrids and PHEV resale value could drop off a cliff at any time soon. Assuming that a hybrid will have good resale in 3 to 5 years would be wrong. So you should remove resale price f these as part time f your consideration. EV prices are dropping, and range is getting longer. I actually think buying an EV now would ensure better resale, compared to ICE and Hybrid
Yeah and that's the tricky part about buying right now, nobody seems to know. A lot of comments have mentioned leasing which I've never considered before but almost seems like a decent idea. Everyone says EV prices are dropping but they are still unaffordable for us for anything decent unfortunately. I'd like to get an EV next.
@@TheSAHDLife EV leasing is the best option for EVs. Monthly Lease starts from ~$175 for a Nissan Leaf to ~$299 for Polestar 2( current deal). Bought gas vehicles on 5year mortgage but never kept a vehicle beyond 6 years due to obsolescence and service costs after 60k miles. Adv leasing is no extended warranty or service contracts, less service costs. New car feel, family happy, Buy back option, no depreciation. We make iphone payments every month for 2 years just like leasing, so car is same.
@@TheSAHDLife Car with $50k dealer price @6.5% current APR with $0 down and 3 year loan, the OTD price comes to ~$53k with emi ~$1600. APR at current rates, it is not worth it. Negotiate Lease with 0 down.
@@TheSAHDLife that's very interesting and I'm glad it worked out for them. I'm just a little bit apprehensive and I'm a tech person which is saying something 😆❤️⚡🚘 my mom was going to get one of those plug-in hybrids from Hyundai they don't drive much now so maybe it might work out for them in the future if they get one
@@m.hreels9822 We got our third Prius (first PHEV), in March. Zero issues with the first two and we got half of what we paid new for our 12 year old Model C at trade-in. After 3600+Km with the new Prime we have purchased exactly $46.00 worth of fuel. Our cost to recharge the battery is about $1.73 and that brings us over 80Km. And, the quality of the car is outstanding. Your Mom is missing-out.
I've been doing some checking recently and on the Gen 4 Toyota Prius primes, so 2016 through 2022. It looks like it is about $14,000 to $15,000 to replace the high voltage battery in them. One of my local Toyota dealerships said that their price the wholesale price of the battery was $11,800 and they're probably going to add another $1,000 or so to the cost of that battery in getting it to me and then there's all the labor hours for taking the old battery out and putting the new battery in and reflashing the car's computer and ECU to play nicely with the new battery.
Yeah that's not cheap! I mean that shouldn't be necessary for what 10 to 15 years still based on how long the older ones have gone? That generation even though it doesn't have quite as much power they sure seem efficient. And I can't tell if I love or hate the design of the rear of that car lol
Thank you! I have been considering a phev for awhile now and you made it so easy to compare the annual costs, incentives and 10 year costs to consider the overall value. I'm a geek and loved the numbers! I will let you know what I decide. I had not considered a Toyota before and plan to test drive one now. Due to the consideration of the longevity future resale value/ Currently, I prefer luxury styles vs truck style so we will see how this compares to the others in this class.
Glad you found the video! It was a lot of fun really breaking it down... For us it's an easy choice if we e going to get two vehicles, but we can still get away with having one for our family so for that it's a bit of a trickier choice. What are your top considerations?
I went with a 2024 Corolla Cross AWD hybrid vs Rav 4 Prime, in OryGONE, high gas prices, cheap electric, 5.9¢/kwh. It would take 700k pure electric miles to make up the up front cost difference. I drive 6k/yr. I hypermile, get 80+MPG NON freeway. Freeway is @50. Super happy with choice. BTW forever drivetrain, no mechanical pumps, alternator, starter, no wear parts in eCVT, yada, yada. 0-60 7.0... same cargo area as Rav 4 with seats down, more front leg room, yada, yada,...
That seems like a good choice! Nice. I don't even think I've heard of the cross. We need a little bit more size but that seems like a great size for everyday usage and you made very fair points.
A few more things I left unmentioned, safety ,❤teslas are in far less accidents much safer if you do have one. Sentry mode, dog mode, never have a brake job, unless you play too hard. Hybrids are practical but the future is electric. Finally excellent well thought out post.
Yes! My man 👊 It's what I really want to do to be honest... And I'm not going to lie if I could somehow make that work it would be hard not to extra Yolo on the performance one 😆
I see terrible resale value as a good thing. It means I can buy used at a good price. People who buy new are either wealthy (and can afford that depreciation) or they are financially challenged.
Hehe... yeah I'm with you, buying used is a great way to save a lot of money. It's just tough sometimes finding one that was cared for well and is fairly priced. Covid kind of changed the used car market, at least around here anyway.
@@TheSAHDLifeI have never had an issue buying a high quality used car. Now, I have purchased a lemon before, but I am 100% positive it was a lemon for the original purchaser as well. But I have never run into a situation yet where the car had a history of abuse. At least not noticably.
BEV’s are so not there yet. I can drive my old Hyundai Sonata ICE vehicle from Western Washington to Utah in about 12 hours. I mapped out that exact same trip in a Tesla Model Y, and it’s over 18 hours. I don’t know very many people who are willing to put up with that inconvenience. Not me.
Yeah my conclusion is that they aren't for that yet you know? They are great if ALL you do is commute, or need a second car for running errands... and you have a main car to use for the road trips.
Hi SAHD, very good video. I would like to add some key points to this topic: 1. Batteries will become much cheaper in 10 years if you look at the price trend of EV batteries. 2. According to HLDI, Tesla is much safer than most hybrid cars. I personally value this a lot. I'm not sure if the hybrid you mentioned has AWD; if not, driving in any Canadian city other than Vancouver will be challenging in the winter. 3. Hybrid cars don't depreciate as quickly because their current supply doesn't meet demand (especially for Toyota). However, once the supply meets demand, they will depreciate faster since hybrid cars have higher maintenance costs than EVs and gas cars due to having both gas and electric engines and the fast technology advancement in the hybrid market.
Hybrids do not have more maintenance actually because hybrids don't have an alternator, starter, or serpentine belt that has to be replaced over time like a gas engine.
Until you own an EV, speculating on how long it’ll last is a little pointless. Some have personal testimonies out at this point of their Teslas (and I dislike Tesla) running 300,000 miles with surprisingly little degradation to the battery. And even if these are anomalies, if you don’t take care of the car’s battery, it will matter little whatever theoretical mileage number you should be able to achieve. Secondly, plug-in and non-plug-in hybrid batteries also die, and faster than EVs. Taking care of a car’s high-voltage battery is important. Keeping the battery somewhere in the 80% range at most is where they’ll want to be, with a typical charging range of 20%-80%. Technically, you want between 60%-80%, but I would say charging a car everyday would be inconvenient for most. In any case, with 20% battery left, a typical Tesla might have 56 miles left. That’s more than enough to feel comfortable doing what you need to do and charging when you’re done. At 42 miles per full charge, you’re more than likely going to run your battery down on a daily basis and charge it to full on a daily basis, which is bad for battery health. Keep in mind, your car drives 42 miles until it doesn’t. All of those issues EVs have (driving up steep hills and/or fast and losing miles faster) are exasperated with a lower kWh battery. Additionally, plug-in and non-plug in hybrids may be capped at certain speeds when using the battery only. My mom’s 2013 Prius can only drive at speeds of 20mph or less using the battery. My old hybrid couldn’t even drive only using the battery without accelerating at unsafe, slow speeds. My 2010 Fusion Hybrid battery died at 196,000 miles. My mom’s Prius is still going. My 2017 Focus Electric has 35k miles on it and still charges to full-ish capacity, around 120 miles of actual range and 130-145 estimated range (the car has an MPGe rating of 115 miles, so I’m still outperforming the official EPA rating). I say this all to say, looking for theoretical costs per year, five-years, decade is smart on paper, but real results vary greatly. You will always feel like you’re taking a risk on EVs until they are the majority of cars on the road, being purchased, worked on, and traded in.
Yeah good points. Way to make the decision even harder! 🤣 I think for those of us shopping on paper, the averages help sway the decision. So if batteries in 2024 from 10 year old Teslas are failing at, even a 1-2% rate (I'm just making that up), that's still a pretty good chance of a failure rate compared to a Hybrid or even ICE car of the same age... which, out of warranty is a much cheaper replacement. You are right though in the sense that every car tech will have lemons since quality control and the odds of things malfunctioning is just a part of life and a result of producing so many cars. If I was to buy something right now it would probably be an EV. But they are just so expensive in Canada we can't really afford one yet.
Yeah that's not a bad idea at all. Never leased though. There's something kinda scary about it heh. Might have to learn more though as it's hard to commit to buying right now though.
@TheSAHDLife I was thinking about it the same way as you. With how much fluctuating the ev market is doing right now, I did not want to get caught upside-down. The tech is moving fast, I can't wait to see what it's like in 2 years! Also, it's my first ev. Wanted to be sure I liked the whole idea!
@@TheSAHDLife It may take a while to trap as many evangelists as possible before its inevitable introduction. Though, New Zealand has reportedly proposed such a km tax on EVs including PEVs!
Honestly and ironically, the gov't not meeting its goal in EV sales to replace ICE vehicles would mean a major delay in that fuel tax, which might be beneficial for current EV owners.
We debating Tesla 3 vs prius. My wife has driven 2006 and 2014 Prius so familiar and trust Toyota. I just got quote on 240v installation in garage today $3000🤦🏼♂️. Prius will prob make more sense. Tesla insurance will go up $60/mo as well.
Yeah that's a lot of money to get into one and have the full EV experience right? I think it also depends on how much time you spend in the vehicle. The long run savings on the EV and the comfort and experience of the ride could be worth it depending on your lifestyle. But I think the Prius Prime would be pretty sweet too. Seems like a good choice!
@@TheSAHDLife yeah, gas will not go out, before it goes expensive first. Honestly phev, is a better choice for now. Automakers are just maximizing their profit while they can instead of truly solving problems.
@pym75 I too am surprised that the amount of people that think gas cars aren't going to be on the road in 10 years from now and that gas stations will be shutting down... I hope there becomes more viable alternatives that are better for the Earth but there's big dollars in gas so I don't see that going away soon.
@@TheSAHDLife it is shutting down gradually, many gas station are slowly turning into charging station, which may not be the right model (charging at parkings, home, malls, in door parking may be the right place). When gasoline supply will go on until it trickles, price goes up fast, so fast, those who bought gasoline car just before it shutdown will have junk in the garage. I see it seriously PHEV will still be the most viable option for the next 10-15 years if you are to buy now. at least you can still charge to power it, fill if there are gasoline supply.
A hybrid car is two cars, a bad electric car and a bad gasoline car, inside the body of one car. A hybrid car is big on the outside and small on the inside. A hybrid car has a more complex construction compared to any other car. All cars need to be maintained and repaired.
Yeah I hear you. I've never owned one but it seems like an interesting compromise between two technologies... But I agree kind of seems worse at each of them though might be quite convenient at times
@@TheSAHDLife A gasoline car can be compared to a chemical factory. It has catalysts, analyzers sensors. My car had a problem with the exhaust gas sensor. The car had driven only 80,000 km and the sensor needed to be replaced. During the repair, the original, but unfortunately low-quality sensor was installed. In order to get the car working properly again, I had to go to the car dealership 4 times and it took me two months. After a few months, it was necessary to replace the adblue pump, which cost €500. All hybrid cars have countless sensors and other wonderful devices. The difference is that a gasoline car has room to change parts. But the hybrid car is so tightly packed with equipment that the car has to be disassembled to get a part during repairs.
I probably missed it, but you forgot to factor in Opportunity Cost. Plus, battery cost keeps going down. In ten years, battery replacement will be cheaper. Also, the resale value of Hybrid will fall because BEVs will have lower up front cost and low overall cost of ownership. Most buyers will stay away from Hybrids for these reasons, in my honest opinion 😊
Yeah I hear you... I see a lot of 60+ buying hybrids right now. They are tough to get (Toyota's/Volvo's) around here. I have a feeling EV tech will move fast but it'll be the younger folks buying them. It will be interesting to see if people will be able to put newer/cheaper batteries in the older cars. I can't see why not. I wonder if putting a new battery in a 2014 Model S right now costs less then it did say, 7 years ago.
When I was talking about the resale value of cars bought today in 10 years from now, there are 2 points you in the comments have pointed out... #1 - my estimate for the Prius (despite having the new design) WAS too high and it's probably more like 15k as opposed to 25k. And #2 ICE cars might not have as great resale in 10 years either since they will likely be less in demand. Who knows! I will also add I just checked in with my friend who has a 2018 Tesla and he says while the build quality isn't great compared to his 2018 Toyota 4Runner (doors closing tight, rattling while driving etc) he has said that the Tesla still runs great in 2024 with 100K+ mileage on it. That's reassuring.
The Prius is made in Japan, check out the build quality in person
@@LucasFR11 Interesting! I drove the non-Prime Prius a couple weeks ago and it felt great. It was surprisingly comfortable.
The strange thing about the chemical soup you get in Lithium based chemistries is they age even if you don't drive the car - think trying to charge up a battery that's just been sitting in a drawer for 10 years.
There are so many examples on the Tesla forums of the batteries lasting over 200k miles, but also ones failing in under 40k miles just from the age of the vehicle and likely other factors like how often it was parked in the cold, or in direct sunlight, how often it was supercharged, how often it was discharged below 10%, or above 80%, or more basic things like the battery housing developing a leak over time.
More worrying there are many examples of batteries showing minimal degradation but going from 50% charge to 0 in the space of 1 mile, or shutting off on the road when you try to accelerate. You may have experienced something similar on a 3-5 year old phone battery where you try to make a call and the phone reboots because the cells cannot provide the required voltage anymore, despite the battery health showing 85%.
@@DigiDriftZone Yeah that is interesting to consider for sure. In the past I definitely felt more examples of that... but I feel like my Samsung S21 is still going strong. Not sure I'd want to base buying a $50,000+ vehicle off of that experience though!!
@@TheSAHDLife Garages are adapting and are getting the experience to work on EVs. A 15k battery replacement will be cheaper in 3-5 years since they will be replacing dead cells/packs instead of the full kit. Go watch electrified garage videos !
Funny things is, they talk about oil changes as being an annoying things, but don't consider about hour long charging time as annoying when you are planning for a long trip
Yeah I hear you... but for some of us, we will do 100% of our charging at home. That would sure be annoying though, especially as charging stations get busier and busier.
It really depends on the charging archetype of the EV. They don’t all charge at the same speed. My husband has the fastest archetype charging infrastructure in his car and fully charges his Ioniq 5 at a charging station (fastest charger) in 15 min. The Teslas don’t charge as fast. If he’s not on a road trip he uses our regular level 1 charger at home and it takes 12 hours. He’s got enough range (about 330 miles) that he doesn’t drive enough during the work week to even need to charge it every day.
Thats because it’s not an hour to charge. Just got back from a roadtrip in an EV and 19% to 80% charge was under 25 minutes. From 47% - 80% was 14 minutes. It’s not an hour. It is longer than a tank of gas fill-up. But even during that 25 minute charge I was still waiting on my order at the local Wendys. So if you plan around them it’s not that big of a deal.
Charges at home are slower and done overnight but supercharges are the ones you seem to be referring to and they are much, much faster.
@@Alopen-xb1rb exactly- it’s not even close to an hour, depending on the type of car. VW ID4 is still about 45 min I hear. Most people (especially with kids) while on long road trips need to stop every 2-3 hours anyway, even if you’re driving an ICE car. We were at a QT gas station in GA the other day and waited 20 min for some of their fresh pizza- if my husband had been charging he would have been done by then, plus then some.
The Hyundai Ionic 5 has 1 of the fastest charge times if that is the goal.
I got a 330e this year and I have zero regrets. Super fun to drive, my commute to and from work is fully electric and my gas bill has dropped 90%. Drove 6 hours this past weekend and hit 48mpg on highway gas only driving thanks to how efficient the B46 is. I went to Algonquin provincial park superchargers in the area are enough to make you nervous. Happy I got it over the model 3.
Also, Canadians can relate well to this: finding a charger that isn’t a Tesla is still a nightmare, and half the time you do find them, they’re broken.
That's awesome! Sounds like you made the right choice. We just settled on a model 3 refresh and it's just great for us. We're just charging hip and 120 volt household plug in our garage and it's so cheap. It's working great for us and we love the features. I'd be a little scared to venture too far away from the major hubs here in BC though!
Thankfully I'm not a car whore and I can keep the same vehicle for a long time. BEV all the way. But if you truely care about resale as in you wont keep the vehicle long stick to gas for now. As a mechanic I can tell you outside the best hybrids (toyota) plug in hybrids fail more often than any other type.
Yeah word. People buy vehicles for so many different reasons. Some people are very practical while others are more emotional. If you keep the car for 5 to 10 plus years I think the fuel savings really matter and the resale not so much. But that's great you're able to work on it yourself and customize it to just how you like it.
We finally got our new 2024 Prime in March. Our third Prius. Very pleased with the first two (non Prime), and each averaged 4.4 L per 100Km year round. When we made the deal for the 2024, the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Model C, half of what we paid new. I don't think that in 12 years a dealer (or anyone else), will consider paying 1/2 the original cost of a Tesla considering the price to replace the Traction battery.
The new Prime ? We have driven it 3,600+Km so far and bought just $45.00 (a half tank), only because we had to take a road trip. And, oh, it cost more than $20,000 less than the cheapest Tesla. I like these numbers.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing. Jeez we still go back and forth almost daily. For awhile there we got really excited about the fuel savings of a full EV but we would be able to charge our car every night at home and might be able to get almost those same savings with a PHEV plus all the advantages to NOT buying an EV (like resale / trade-in as you mention). I'm really glad to hear from an owner so thanks for chiming in.
Is there anything you don't love about the car?
@@TheSAHDLife Very glad to hear it was useful to you.
My biggest beef with the Prime is the absence of a spare tire. I know tire technology has advanced and flats are less common but, they do happen. We had our first two Priuses for 16 years and had just one flat. It was sidewall damage, so, without a spare we'd have been stuck. Our tires are quite low profile and our spring roads are always covered in "road sores". The "Fix the Flat Kit isn't capable of addressing a sidewall tear. That means a tow-truck. Where we live, "breaking down" often means having to wait a very long time for rescue if your not near a community (which describes a great deal of our province). You can buy a spare tire kit from Toyota for the Reg. hybrid that fits under the hatch floor (why the bloody thing does not come with the car is a mystery). However, the kit will not suit the Prime, too little room due to the bigger battery. We plan to source a set of rims and tires for winter use. We'll seek out inexpensive 17" rims and the closest tire size to the 195-50's that came with the car. At the moment, no manufacturer makes a winter tire in the oddball OEM size. This route offers the added benefit of giving us a spare (in both seasons). So, should we take a road trip we'll just throw a wheel in back.
We both really like the car. And, neither of us has encountered the issues many other Posters complain about.
Great video brother. Like the way you put facts.
My point on 10yr from now is, lot can be changed as solid state battery tech others can enable the batteries to be damn cheap. The 20k full EV swap can be 5k... how know. 😊
Thanks man! Do you think the newer Solid State batteries might be able to be placed in the older, let's say Tesla, batteries as replacements in the future? Is that what you're saying? Or would you wait to get a solid state in the first place so that they will be cheaper to replace in the future.
I would guess 10y from now there would be lots of options for battery replacement, and much cheaper prices.
They already have some battery swapping technology in some EV vehicles outside the U.S market.
Dont be logical. Life is short, have fun while you can !!!
In 10years you wont thing about the 10k you lost but all the fun you had along the way !
Plus, tesla model 3 is the most safe car ever
Hehehe I agree with you!!! Though my accountant wife on the other hand does not lol 😆
And Toyota fakes their safety tests....they got caught recently
The solution is leasing until the next gen battery tech is out. Your payment is way less, and once a solid state comes out, then purchase.
Yeah I've learned a bit more about leasing recently and that's not a bad suggestion. Good call 👊
ICE cars bought today will worth close to nothing in 10 years, buy what you like today and enjoy it!
Yeah that is a topic worth considering for sure. I think gas will be around for awhile but I know what you mean. We still aren't sure what we'd buy if we bought one right now. We've kind of gone full circle!
Not going to happen. ICE cars are going to be around for decade’s because there is not enough electricity available. The price of electricity for the average person is going to break the bank. EV cars will have to start paying road tax. If the road tax was taken off of gasoline EVs would never pay for them selves. Free money from rebates haha that’s your tax money. 90% of people will NOT be able to charge at home.
Current EVs will be worth nothing too. At least I hope that battery tech will have progressed enough in ten years.
What car is not going be be worth next to nothing in 10 years?
How about a lightly used Tesla maybe a couple of years old?
I think that's a great idea if you can find one!
I chose having fun vs saving money simply because life is too short. I won't be able to bring the money saved to the other side. It's ok to die broke with a smile on my face in my last moments of my life. Awesome analysis of the subject ! Good job man !
Yeah you know I like that mindset too. It's very rare I regret buying the nicer item.
We still haven't made up our mind. I'm really interested to see what the new Model Y's will look like, but jeez Musk makes it tough to invest in Tesla!
Best I can get for my 2014 gas car that was $24k is around $3500 that isn't far off from "nothing".
Yeah I hear you. I wonder if Honda's or Toyotas of that year similar model go for more... But they cost more also. So many factors to consider. Did your car need lots of repairs over the 10 years?
I do believe you missed a critical point. All 3 hybrid, plug in, and EV are affected by cold significantly. Not just EV's. My 2016 Prius went from 60 to 70 miles per gallon down to 30 to 40 miles per gallon in the winter. That was an a mild Washington winter. Now I live in significantly colder winter weather. Plugins are affected even more than EVs. My Outlander PHEV goes from between 40 and 75 mpg down to 25 to 35 in the winter. My model 3 RWD (not long range) still had 205mi range at 70mph in the winter. So if you compare all three, the EV is actually affected the least in the winter. There is also very little evidence to support EV resale value being lower than Hybrid or PHEV.
Wow I had no idea the mileage on a Hybrid changes so drastically. I'm surprised I hadn't heard that before! Thanks for sharing.
It depends on your driving pattern and the way you set up the interior heating.
In my hybrid Corolla, i achieve some 4.4L/100km (54 mpg) in the summer and 5.2L/100km (45 mpg) in the winter.
Most of the time i drive alone, so i set up the HVAC to driver only and turn on the heated seat and steering wheel.
But yeah, a lot of time the engine kicks in only to produce heat, which is kinda wasteful.
Tesla is not the only EV in the world. It is am expensive car for what it is offering. You can try the cost with a Hyundai Kona, Ioniq or Bayon. Try do it with other cars as well, even Byd. You may find that, over 10 years, EV cost less.
After 10 years, if you are still happy with the car, have a new battery if needed and keep going with it as a 2nd car or accept the loss and get a better one for another 10 years. Anyway nobody hold cars for 10 years now. Lease an EV for 4 years and pay only the depreciation on the 4 years. Bargain!
You know, I've never considered a lease before but now almost seems like a decent time to consider it. And I WISH BYD were available in our area. They seem sweet... because you're right, there are others to consider. Tesla still just seems like the best though.
@@TheSAHDLifethe problem with leasing is that you pay more than you would pay buying with finance and sell it after the same 4 years (in Portugal the interest is way greater for leasing)
@@gn6877 I know right? It doesn't make sense to me either but there has to be a reason so many people do it. I'll try and get to the bottom of it soon. Maybe people just hate selling stuff? I mean I get that... but it's so much money you save.
Who have time to sit at a charging station for 4 hours? Hybrid all the way! If you own a house and are willing to pay the price for installing a home charger ev may be an option. If you come home with a empty ev and have an emergency you will have to call an uber because you cant wait for it to charge just some thing to think about.
Yeah I hear you. We just bought an EV as our second car and, 50% battery lasts for a whole week for us... so as long as we plan well, we should never have an issue with charging. Things might be different if it was our main car and we had to commute more often, but we don't so it's great.
I enjoyed your video. Of course everyone have to calculate what is right for them. After 5 days with no power after hurricane I would be only comfortable with an EV as a back up.
Thanks! Yeah that would feel sketchy for sure. We just did a week of daily driving running errands and still had 50% battery left on a standard range Tesla... It has made me feel a little better about power outages etc but still. I also say that because we do have a gas vehicle as well so not as worried.
I'm either buying a Toyota Prius Prime SE or a used 2023 Toyota BZ4X FWD. I can find a BZ4X FWD, under 10k KM, for $33,000.00 + HST CAD or a 2024 Prius Prime SE will cost me $38,500.00 + HST. Both drive really nice but I do want an SUV. I know the resale will be much better on the Prius but I've been eyeing an EV for sometime and driven cars for too long where I want something a little more comfortable to drive. I plan on driving my next vehicle til the wheels fall off basically so resale for me isn't as huge as a factor and by buying a EV used, already saving on the initial depreciation. I do feel like the Prius Prime will outlast the BZ4X but who knows?
That is a tough decision. I feel the pull on the more spacious SUV, however, is that the first year of the BZ4X? I know it's Toyota but I just, I'm not convinced their full EV's are that good yet. A friend of mine just got the new Mazda PHEV (first year) and it's been in the shop NINE times in the first few months. It's a nightmare. It could be different with Toyota.. I really haven't looked into that vehicle in particular... maybe it's a sick deal but if you want something that will last long, I think you know the answer there.
I'm praying for solid state battery adoption, and future swaps on current lithium
Yeah me too. We just bought an EV so, well I mean I hope I have no need to swap the battery, but if it eve needs to happen it doesn't cost as much as it does now!
My understanding is hybrids are MUCH more likely to catch fire then either PHEVs or EVs.
Really? I hadn't heard that. Yeesh. Nothing like driving around and you know your car CATCHES FIRE 😱
Toyota PHEVs will force the engine to run if not running enough. But it's not something I'd recommend.the smart money, maybe two second hand cars, an EV and a petrol.
I don't know. I got Corolla TS 196 (hybrid), but in Europe, it's not that straight forward. They keep messing around and deciding one thing, then another two months later, it's not the market deciding anymore, just a bunch of unelected idiots.
Anyway... All I know is that if I can get 10, 12 years out of my car, I'll be happy. Then, whatever. Maybe I'll keep it, go to ethanol, or sell it to finish its life as a taxi in Morocco.
I could go electric, install solar panels, but that's not an option for everyone. EVs are a pain and very expensive if you can't recharge at home, and it's not gonna get better.
Yeah I hear you... luckily for us, electricity is quite cheap compared to in Europe so full EV/PHEV are quite attractive for now. I mean it's tough to find that sweet spot right... a vehicle that is efficient, fun, and affordable? We just pulled the trigger on an EV, but I could see how it's not the right choice for everyone.
totally agree! my chev volt is perfect.
I've heard nothing but good things from the Chevy Volts! I wish we got on that train years ago. I've always been a little worried about Chevy's though you know? I haven't had the best experiences with Domestic vehicles throughout owning cars over the last 25 years.
I think this is old thinking being improperly applied to new tech, specifically with the depreciation for EVs.
Fundamentally, the plummeted resale value of electric cars recently has been because of technological innovation rather than the asset in question losing its functionality/deteriorating. Remember, 5-year depreciation figures by definition lag 5 years behind the current models. I think the technology has matured significantly in recent years, leaving much less maturation in the near-mid term future.
Take the Apple's MacBooks. The resale price of an x64 MacBook air is ~30% original price but an M1 is ~70%, because there is relatively less maturation between M1 -> M3/4 than from x86 -> M1.
I believe 2024+ Model 3 and 2021+ S/X will see significantly less "depreciation" than older models, so I think it's worth it.
Or just buy a 2021-2023 Model 3 for like $28k US and call it a day!
I think you make a great point and I do agree with you. Unlike Apple however there is a lot more competition and marketing in the auto industry which makes what you mentioned easy to forget. Heck just watch any sporting game and see the amount of car ads that play. It's crazy!
I think when it comes to Tesla specifically, because they were so far away from the competition experience wise... While guys like me have wanted to jump on board for years, I worried about rickety build quality as all my friends with 2018/2019 Tesla's said they rattle years later though they still run well.
My cousin has a 2021 Model Y that she wants to sell and my wife and I wonder if we should consider hers or if it's worth the extra 15k for buying new. Tough call. I'll chew more on what you said 👊
I think picking up your cousin's Model Y would be a great idea!
1) You know that specific unit's build quality
2) You get a big discount on the price compared to a new one
3) You trust the previous owner and know they aren't hiding any big problems/repairs from you
I don't own a car currently but the sheer thought of having to do (& pay for) the maintenance on one drives me insane, so personally I would LOVE the lack of it on an EV
@alejandrowilcox8198 those are all great points. It sure makes a big difference buying a used anything from a trusted source. Those 2021s still look pretty slick too! But yeah having a vehicle is a lot. We've managed to only have one vehicle for so long which is just been great but every now and then there's a time where we need two vehicles. It's just so much cost for not very often you know? Hard to justify.
Mate couldn't agree more based on the calculations u made....
I'm not math wizard but my wife is an accountant and we've got years of data to work with. We JUST pulled the trigger on an EV so it'll be interesting once we get some data to really see how accurate those numbers were. I'll keep ya posted 👊
În Europe cost of gas vs energy is similar.. (same amount of money spent for both to drive the car, especially on long distances) ...(high speed). EV car is better if you can charge it for free... Home solar panels(which must be bought/installed first....)
Home solar would be amazing! An EV sure would be nice but the sticker price is still just a little too high for the SUVs over here.
Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything other than a Japanese car, and Toyota and Honda are right there for me. Even Nissan are getting better without Ghosn there. But PHEV, Toyota has the upper hand I think, although Mitsubishis look good, and Australia loves them.
I'm kind of right there with you... I hear great things about Lexus but they seem a little out of range financially though I really haven't looked into it. My folks and best bud have Mitsi phevs and are happy with them... Who knows what the resell will be like on 5+ years though. Will anyone want them? I wouldn't want a 2019 Outlander PHEV really... The range would be so bad. My folks is a 2022 with a battery range of about 40kms... My friend just got a 2024 and says he gets 80-90 per charge but he's a bit of an exaggerater. They say online it only gets 61. That's still 50% more range in just two years though.
I personally dont care about getting new cars every so often, i want something that isn’t going to break down constantly and require a lot of maintenance, i dont care if my car is 10 years old or older, as long as it gets me where im going and looks pretty im good with an EV
Yeah I hear you on that. If you can make it work with the charging I can't really think of a good reason not to. Which one are you going to get?!
@@TheSAHDLifeim loving the look on Tesla model 3 currently, pretty good range, super charging is super available around me as well as normal charging, I honestly would hold on to that car until it literally can’t be driven anymore
Great video. Wish you included some rough hybrid maintenance numbers but still good info!
Thanks! I would love to dig deeper into all of that. Perhaps that's a good suggestion for a future video 👊
EVs are riding on the backs of all other electricity consumers. Generation and grid buildout for "everyone" to drive EVs will more than triple electricity costs. Then add in road and other taxes EV drivers currently sleaze out of paying. Insurance pricing also needs dramatic upticks to pay their way. The subsidies are unsustainable. No, Remote Combustion Vehicles (EVs) are not even close to a net positive for society. This is yet another NIMBY toy for the well off at the expense of everyone else.
Interesting take!
Why not adding the expensive maintenance i the Toyota cars? You will have to add extra cost every second year which will brake the Toyota calculation by far.
It's a good point... but every car has maintenance, and since I haven't owned an HEV, PHEV, or EV I just had to speculate and draw the line somewhere. I know even EV's need brakes/tires/tire rods, etc... and that really has been the only thing we've had to invest in with our 10 year old ICE vehicle outside of things that were fixed within the warranty window.
The EV won’t wear out the tires any more than any other car if you don’t accelerate like a maniac.
M3 and My are far safer in a serious accident than any other cars.
They are far less likely to catch on fire in an accident since they don’t have gasoline. The LFP batteries in the newer EVs are much less likely to cause a fire compared to NMC batteries in older cars.
The plug is hybrid has all the maintenance of ICE and EV ,so more points of failure.
The resale value of cars at ten years is based on the idea that we’re going to drive it another ten years. If I planned to keep it that long ,I’d prefer a straight gas powered Toyota over the plug in due to its simplicity for maintenance reasons.
The M3 will likely last 20 years also and be left with a valuable home storage battery or valuable recycle item.
The fact that in ten years range anxiety will move to ICE cars because there won’t be enough market for gasoline to justify the production and distribution costs will make gas stations like the livery stables you see on every corner where you leave your horse when you go into the city.
I love my 2004 Highlander and will probably drive it the rest of my driving career. I might even buy another used one if it was cheap enough. I would never buy any new ICE vehicle at this point in time even if it was as good as the Highlander.
Interesting take. I have a feeling gas stations will be around for quite some time still but it'll be interesting to see what happens. No one really has any clue. That's awesome you've had a great experience with the highlander. That's what we've kind of been considering as our only family vehicle. An eevee would be cool as the secondary car for getting around town but we don't really need one quite yet so we'll wait as long as we can before we get a second vehicle.
Engine servicing vs EV.
Here is France an annual service costs about €450 for our Peugeot Diesel engine. Our Tesla costs the same for tyres every two years.
I think the most relevant issue is the EV tech being out dated over time, whereas engines haven’t changed much over the last 30 years.
Yeah that's an interesting point. My wife was wondering why anybody would want to lease a vehicle last night, and my thought was that while an eevee would be nice right now for fuel savings but in 3 to 4 years there might be SSD batteries out which could be a huge game changer. Feels like we're in a very transitional stage right now so it's tough to invest in fully. They're still quite expensive here in Canada anyway. We don't quite have as many diesels as you do in Europe so we're stuck with the gas ice engines.
@@TheSAHDLife The diesel thing has been a huge scam. There are very few and select reasons for why anyone would need a diesel engined car in Europe but when you see the number of small diesel cars around, it’s astonishing.
I drew a comparison between servicing a diesel car for two years here in France (about €900) and tyres every two years for an ev (about €800-900). I think the biggest reason for why anyone would need to hold off while battery technology changes (it probably always will) is likely obsolescence. I’m looking at selling our 3yr old Model 3 (facelifted this year and with a new battery) and buying a PHEV as I think it will be more appropriate while the EV world develops.
@LysanderLH that's an interesting take. I appreciate you sharing 👊 sure is tough figuring out what to do. Which plug-in would you get?
@@TheSAHDLife the answer to that question currently eludes me. If I sold the Model 3 and the Peugeot, that might achieve €50k. Like it or not, I seem to keep cars for three years or less, so if I approach it with that in mind, the worst that could happen would be an annoyance for a couple of years. The Model 3 has been an annoyance for three years and the likelihood of me ever buying another diminishes with every comment from Musk.
I think i’m after a phev SUV eg. size of a Volvo xc60, Polestar with comfort, quietness, smoothness and efficiency. Something that wafts about effortlessly and which doesn’t handle like a barge. Volvo troubles me due to reliability and bizarre devaluation.
A long range ev is the way to if you can charge at home and drive less than 150 miles a day otherwise hybrid. Phevs are just not worth it it has the inconvenience of changing and the maintenance or ice car worst of both worlds
Yeah I think that's a good way of looking at it. My friend drives about 50 miles a day and takes road trips every month which is about 200 miles away... he bought a 7 seat Outlander PHEV and for HIM it makes sense as he can go EV during his day then use the gas on the trips... but for most people I agree with what you said.
in my personal opinion . buy EV and plug in Hybrids only if you can charge at home whit solar pannels .
no charge at home only one option left . full Hybrid . gas and good to go .
I think that's a good call. We just picked up and ev this week and are stoked about it. Video incoming!
I had owned a 4Runner for 7 years and 120,000 miles. Bought new for $46k. I got $20k when I sold it and bought Tesla model 3 Long Range AWD. I had spent over $25k just in gas to drive my 4Runner. If I would buy Tesla I would save $17k just in gas. So my 4Runner had cost me $43k combined gas and depreciation. And I paid $45k for my Tesla. So basically Tadlą can be worth 0 after 7 years and it will cost me the same as haven Toyota 4Runner.
Yeah I was kinda feeling that way too when I was mathing it out... even if you get ZERO resale, at the end you were left with a great time driving around with barely spending money on fuel. It all seems to even out. We are still on the one vehicle but seem to lean more and more towards the EV. The EV would be a no-brainer for a second vehicle, but if we just replace our ONE family vehicle it's still a harder decision.
Another idiot comparing an off-road tank with light passenger car.....why didn't you just toss in a moped while you were at it. Try comparing a Toyota Corolla and see how stupid your numbers are Goober
Your 4Runner isn’t a smooth ride like a Tesla model 3. The speakers are much better and the comfort overall is beyond a Toyota.
In 7 years the price of fuel will go up while increasing Sun Wind and Battery power will make electricity cheaper.
@@marcc.490 Scary to think people like you roam the streets, or worse even vote.
4-Runner is an off road vehicle, not a car dummy....no comparison. Electricity will NEVER get cheaper with solar or wind...not possible, and fuel only goes up because of Marxist democrats in office that refuse to drill for oil. Your Tesla piece of shit will be dead at 120,000 miles and need a new battery at $20,000. Get off moms computer kid....
Yes, the much higher depreciation when coming to selling it or trading it in and replacing the battery. New battery technology will be much better by then and a newer much better cheaper vehicle by then. I would stick with hybrid or plug in hybrid for now. As long as your vehicle is running well for now it all good.
Road conditions, elevation and terrain affects range for EVs which contributes to range anxiety.
Thus Plug in Hybrid or
Hybrid is still more robust and reliable as compared to full EVs.
That's definitely something I wonder about. We still haven't committed to one yet... though I lean towards EV for us since we do 99% of our driving around town and could plug in every night.
In a perfect world we'd have a bigger hybrid for family trips and a small EV for scurrying around town.
Good details video . But lots of research shows the 10yrs old tesla still have over 80% battery health and there is main reason cars cost more and it's performance. Those cars you are comparing has no close performance to tesla. Unlike this days you can buy audi s3 30k less than audi rs3 this 2 car have similar body and tech only main difference is engine and performance. There are some ev that cost 20 k with less performance and that will be decent comparison than tesla. All tesla model 3 run 0-100km in under 5 sec. Toyota prius is like 10 sec. So not close comparison and it's kind of misleading. Thanks
So, on researching this video I found that in Canada, the base model Tesla 3 does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. The new Prius Primes do it in 6.6 seconds! They aren't quite the same but they are MUCH better than before which is why I consider it. But still... I hear what you are saying. And while a lot of older Tesla's have usable batteries, there are also a LOT of people who don't have that great long term experience. My friend has a 2018 and said all the doors are loose and the car doesn't feel tight like his 2018 Toyota 4runner. Just interesting. The new model 3s look sweet though and I want one!
"Imagine adding 10 years of Tesla insurance 😂😅"
Do you mean they offer their own insurance on top of the warranty it comes with, like Apple Care kind of thing?
Imagine realizing that my insurance is $50 more a month than a gas car equivalent. Imagine savings thousands a year on gas… *facepalm*
neither there big problems with them here now the battery going down to 1.6 on charge problems electric cars telsla has many issues get hot inside as my mate got one there losing money imagine $100k now selling $65k nah I rather petrol /gasolina u call it because I can keep driving where battery telsla cost $20k gudluck buy them crap cars
Yeah they are a LOT of money right? Money you just might lose or not get back... you gotta admit though, riding around in them is kinda sweet hehe. They fast!
If a smart buyer purchases a preowned EV, when somebody else footed the bill of depreciation, and keeps untill dead then the EV resale value and depreciation absolutely doesn't matter. Don't believe fairytales about batteries being dead in 10 years unless you plan to charge them daily to 100% and discharge daily to 0%.
Yeah good call. If you can find good deals on used EV's I think that's a great choice.
Have other Philly cheap electric vehicles like the Chevy bolts equinox or Hyundai products
Not sure what you were trying to say in that first half but yeah I test drove the Ionic and the Kona last weekend. The Ionic is sick and the Kona is not bad but jeez, the features you get in the base Model Tesla compared to them is so much different.
I own all 3 (2023 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, 2017 Chevy Volt PHEV, 2024 Cadillac Lyriq EV). I agree completely with your assessment of the pluses and minuses of all three. I absolutely love driving my Cadillac Lyriq, but it is not as great for long road trips and I am not expecting it to have great resale value. My Chevy Volt (a car ahead of its time) is truly the best of all worlds. It allows for long road trips, but also satisfying daily gas free driving. The Highlander Hybrid is our long road trip warrior with great comfort. They are all amazing vehicles! I am just praying that the EV cars last as long as possible, but I am prepared to throw them away when the batteries die.
Great comment! Thanks for sharing. And that's a fun little fleet of vehicles you have. What made you decide on the Lyriq? Is it pretty slick with nice power? We just picked up a Model 3 (releasing my video in the morning) as a commuter and it's been great. Like you I'm hoping it will last a LONG time and not lose power or anything soon :)
@@TheSAHDLifeThe Lyriq is a beautiful luxury AWD medium sized SUV that is probably the best value available for a fully electric vehicle. The Ultium Battery architecture is also impressive engineering. We were able to get our fully loaded Lyriq for about $61,000 after all rebates and incentives. I couldn’t resist. It’s a Cadillac with exhilarating pickup and it’s the quietest car on the market. We also have a dealership that can service it in our small city, that wasn’t the case for a Tesla.
Another option to consider for your American audience is leasing an EV. They have some pretty crazy lease deals in the US right now. There are multiple models you can lease for around the same monthly/annual rate you calculated for your other options So you can lease for 3 years, have fun driving and make your choice 3 years later when there will hopefully be better tech and less expensive EVs available.
Yeah that's a good idea. I think I might have to make a video talking about all the leasing options because it's not something I've truly ever dived into and done the math on. It'll be interesting to see the new Model Y's coming out too, maybe that'll be the catalyst for me hehe.
@@TheSAHDLifeyou can consider the leasing deal of Vinfast :))
I agree with you. It's about 15 miles round trip from home to work. My work has the free level 2 charger in the garage. I test drove ford escape phev, and I actually like it. I calculate about $400 per year for gas, maybe a lot less, if i get the ford escape phev.
Comparing me. Driving my car, I spent about $3000-3600 per year for gas. Plus, it's expensive full coverage insurance. I do use my electric fast scooter sometimes. No car payments or loan.
One that makes me not buy the car is car payments for next 3-4 years. Hadd to decide..
Hard to decide indeed. We've ramped up our driving and think we've decided on the Tesla Model 3 base model since it has the LFP battery and is just chock full of features while still qualifying for the FULL ev rebates here in Canada. It took us a lot of research to get here. I test drove the Kona yesterday and it was decent but just lacks so many features you get in the Tesla.
@TheSAHDLife I was about to buy a tesla model 3 before the pandemic. I didn't pull the trigger because of the charging issue. My house garage has the 240-volt connection, but knowing me, I will forget to charge the car since I usually forget to charge my phone. That's why I am leaning to plug in hybrid.
It's very hard decision. I usually drive japanese cars like infiniti, lexus, and subaru. I had a bmw 3 series with the dual clutch transmission. I am financially free and really don't want an auto loan for next 3-4 years..
Hopefully, the plug in hybrid will get more electric miles and I definitely will pull the trigger
@@windblower5 The wife and I JUST made the decision we are going Tesla Model 3 for our 2nd car and getting the base model rwd as it qualifies for the FULL rebates in Canada and comes with incredible features in the base model (air cooled seats, screen in the back for the kids, seat memory, etc).
We have done SO much research but this seems like the best thing for us. If it would be our only car it might be a different decisions but since we have a AWD ICE SUV for the family the Tesla it is. Although I'm a little concerned about being a Tesla owner to be honest. I have zero interest in talking about Elon.
13 year old PHEV, the only one that exists. 45-55 miles (80km) of ev range. put 35k miles (56k km) on it last year. since my partner and I are in healthcare, we are always driving a medium (40-70 miles) distance to a hospital which always have chargers... including road trips, we averaged 104 mpg (2.6l/100km) last year. i figure we saved around 2500-3000$ on gas here. our electric bill went up 7$/mo lol. I offset a good amount of that by adding solar panels to the roof which feed into the 12v system, which i replaced with a 4kwh battery i built for 230 bucks. i believe we did about 5-6k miles on the motor with just a couple dozen heat cycles (~15% of driving, all hwy). considering we only paid 6000 usd for the car... we are doing alright. and apparently with the phev craze going on right now, the resell value has gone up to 9k, probably the only category of car that is increasing in value right now. imo the prius prime is a joke with its battery size.
the truith is, if you actually want to save money, youre not buying a new car, and there is only one cheap PHEV in the US, its the chevy volt. dont buy a 60k$ prius prime in the highest trim level "coz thats all thats available", and pretend youre saving money by capturing 25k of depreciation before you sell the car rofl. my car is free to drive in a few more months, and my insurance is 21$/month.
the gen1 volts will go for 400-500k miles, think about it, you are only using the motor for long hwy driving at a steady rpm range, the engine is port injected (not direct so no carbon fouling), low compression ratio of 10:1 (direct injection cars run 15:1), the head of the motor is an iron block which doesnt expand and cause head gasket issues at 200k miles like hondas/anything with an aluminum head, there is not really a transmission, just one solid gear in a planetary gear system that is rarely used (gen 2's have a big belt thats basically a CVT to save money), the timing chain is barely doing any work except to keep the engine at a steady rpm, the breaks dont even wear out coz of regen breaking. most of the car is made from aluminum to save weight, weighs the same as a model Y despite having a motor, and the battery cooling system is the most overbuilt one ever mass produced, and the battery is inside the cab so it experiences less temp extremes or impact from a crash. the only other thing you worry about is super/fast charging ratio, which thankfully the car cant super charge so you dont have to worry about the battery being destroyed by an uber driver. there is no alinator or starter motor, even the air conditioner is electronic and runs at high efficiency 350v dc, one of the first ones. ironically toyota is paying chevy for their patents since the new primes copied most of the drive train.
Cool take, thanks for taking the time to share. Sounds like you've saved a pile of money, that's fantastic! So... let's say that car dies or gets destroyed, whatever... would you go and buy a Volt right now?
@@TheSAHDLife already did for my girlfirend. she was using mine so much, she decided she wanted one over her 2015 honda civic. we got another 2014 chevy volt around 8 months ago, i believe it was 7800 usd. same color, similar trim package. imo the leather seats are a lot more comfy (important coz we do lots of driving) and i would try to get a model with heated seats since it boosts the range significantly in the winter. thought it was funny that she got jealous of my older car and gave her newer car to her sister to buy an older model.
guess i didnt answer your question. ya i think i would. i only want 1 car for myself but dont want any sacrafices. im one of those people who thinks the end of the world is comming so off grid/self reliance stuff is important to me. no one alive to remember the gas rationing during ww2. i think it was like 5 gallons per week. good luck getting to work or doing anything
All very clearly, entertainingly presented and compared. Thank you!
Thanks for the comment! Really appreciate it. I love talking about this stuff! It's a tough decision but hopefully I gave people some things to consider. What would you buy right now if you could or had to?
@@TheSAHDLife I like the idea of charging at home for 50/60 miles range but also having an ICE back up, so a phev for me, if I was in the market. Do you like or watch Out of Spec Motors with Kyle? He’s an entertaining EV geek
@@richryan8904 Never heard of him before. Will check it out, thanks for the share! 👊
You cannot turn the output shaft on an internal combustion engine by hand because it so full of shit, It takes effort even with with a long ½ inch breaker bar
So much complexity, most of which has negative effect and/or is not to produce power but to overcome the inherent problems of the internal combustion engines design that cannot be engineered out
* Cooling system
* Oil system
* Cylinder, Piston, Rings
* Crankshaft
* Camshaft and Lifter system
* Valves & valve Springs
* Ignition System
* Fuel Injection system
* Exhaust System
* Turbocharger
* Supercharger
* Clutch-Torque Converter
* Transmission
* Dozens of Emission Systems
* Dozens of Diagnostic systems
You can turn an electric motor's output shaft with your bare hand
The electric motor only need a handful of supporting components to function
A V8 ice engine has a few power pulses during one revolution of the crankshaft but don't forget about that compression stroke, valve springs, and the internal friction sucking up that power even before it leaves the output shaft
The electric motor has dozens of power pulses during one revolution of the output shaft with very little internal friction
Hybrids are ICE vehicles with added complexity
Neat perspective, thanks for sharing. Would you go for one make of EV over another or are they all on a pretty level playing field at this point?
I will always choose EV over everything. Till you drive one, you won't believe it
That's my problem is I DID drive one and now I want one... I just can't afford it lol
@TheSAHDLife just save towards it. And please go for a brand new if you want to enjoy it most
Are you team Tesla or?
Toyota phev rav4 is the best from both worlds. Only tesla could pass in bev world.
I Have and still prefer a hybrid all the way
You have 192 km warranty or 8 yrs so tesla is good option the new model 3
Yeah that's sweet! They are a little pricey here in Canada still... sadly. I'm not going to lie, I want one.
Little bit unfair to compare the Prius with the model 3. There Prius offers a lot less space. I see the point of doing this: both most efficient and popular in their class, but still.
With a different cat to compared it would probably slightly shift more towards the EV, but the overall result would be probably the same.
I guess the most important point is that solid state batteries are around the corner.. on the other side, some countries (not US though) are discussing to ban (new) ICEs in 10 years. This would also heavily affect the value of such cars 🫣. Therefore I tend towards leading at the moment. Which is not really cheap either though 😅.
I guess for best savings, the best is to buy a used car. They lost already a large chunk of their value. And if you later resell, it will not lose as much value anymore.
If I could afford it I'd buy an EV right now. But the solid state batteries coming out just like you said is making it a little bit hard to make that decision.... I've never considered leasing a vehicle in my life but I think I might do a video where I map that out and see what that could be like... I would also consider used EV but they're still so expensive up here.
Get a Tesla Long Range RWD Model 3 and it will pay for itself. It's less than $35k right now after the $7,500 federal rebate in America, Canada probably has similar rebates. You get 363 miles of range. It goes 0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds. It's battery is guaranteed for eight years. It's wicked comfortable and quiet. It has the a state of the art security system. It the best self driving cruise control on the planet. It has a lot more room than a Prius Prime. It has the Tesla supercharger network. It's also become the most reliable EV on the planet, and it's the most efficient EV on the planet.
With the Prius Prime you have spark plugs, oil changes, tune ups, timing chains and other gas engine maintenance, AND you will have to replace the battery. Further, it's a boring noisy ice car. It won't travel as well as the LR RWD Model 3. A Prius is nowhere close to being as comfortable and easy to drive as a Model 3. BTW, you can't find a Prius Prime to buy right now. Toyota doesn't make very many of them.
Also, 10 years from now you won't be able to sell an ice car because everything will be electric. Plug in hybrids are already obsolete.
Really it's a no-brainer. Buy a LR RWD Model 3. It currently is the best EV made if you consider overall cost, value and luxury. The only downside is that you will lose range in the winter. But because you charge at home, that will not affect you that much. You also can easily drive to California with a Model 3 with the Tesla supercharger network.
I own the Model 3 and it's a superb highway car. The updated 2024 Highland version is even better, a lot better, than my 2022 Model 3.
You make a compelling case! The only downside is here in Canada they cost about $60,000 for the long range model 3... That puts it at a price point outside of the full rebates available (I think it's for cars under $50,000). That price combined with the high interest rates right now make it just a little too expensive salt. If it was at the price you were saying we would probably do it for sure.
@@TheSAHDLife I think you are referring to the AWD Long Range Model 3, which is substantially higher in price than the RWD Long Range Model 3 that Tesla has just put out. Right now in America, Tesla is offering a RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) Long Range Model 3 for approximately $42,000 before any rebates. In America, the $7,500 rebate drops the price to approximately $34,900 before tax, license and dealer fees. You should have that same option to buy a RWD, Long Range Model 3.
Note that your prices will vary widely because Canada's extreme-left, radical government taxes the living hell out of you. So you will need to check your local pricing.
The LR, RWD Model 3 is the perfect car for you because it has 363 miles of range, and if you drive it conservatively in temperate weather, it will get that range. Several TH-cam videos have come out that verify this. You seem to want a lot of range, but you could buy the base model RWD Model 3, which costs about $4,500 USD less and still get close to 300 miles of range.
I own the 2022 RWD Model 3, and I love this car. It is simply amazing. The Base model, RWD Model 3 is very fast, has almost every feature of the Long Range versions and here in America, it is $4,500 cheaper than the Long Range RWD. It will get 272 miles of range if you drive conservatively in temperate weather. With all versions of the Model 3 (or any EV, for that matter), you lose 20-40% of your range in very hot or very cold weather. In the city, you will likely get nearly 300 miles of range in temperate weather with the base model IF you drive it conservatively. All of the Model 3 versions lose range if you drive very fast and accelerate fast. But if you are in the city, range loss in the winter won't be an issue, so you won't have to worry about driving conservatively.
One other factor to consider is that the base model RWD Model 3 has an LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery bank chemistry, and LFP batteries lose VERY little of their total range over time. My 2022 Model 3 has an LFP battery, which has over 80,000 miles on it and 97% of its original battery capacity. In temperate weather, I can get as much range as when this car was new. Considering that I live in Arizona and we have just gone through a string of 60 days of temperature ranging from 105 - 118 degrees F, this is a remarkable achievement. The LFP batteries are turning out to be the most durable, long-lasting batteries on the planet. They should easily go 200,000 - 300,000 miles and keep over 90% of their capacity. Conversely, both the LR AWD and the LR RWD Model 3 cars do NOT have LFP batteries. Their batteries are good, but they degrade 10% - 15% in the first three years.
Another advantage of the RWD base Model 3 is that it can be charged regularly to 100%, and it won't degrade the battery. The LR AWD and RWD Model 3 versions recommend charging to 80% because they have NMC batteries and they will degrade if charged regularly to 100%. So, for city driving, the base Model 3 with LFP batteries is the superior choice if you are going to keep the car for a long time. The Model 3 equipped with LFP batteries will also have a higher resale value than more expensive Model 3s with NMC batteries.
You seem really money conscious, and I understand that. YOu might also consider buying a used 2022 base Model 3 RWD with LFP batteries in it for the short term if you can get a good buy. Here in America, there is a $4,000 rebate, so I was able to get my 2022 Model 3 for $18,900 after the rebate. It had 77 314 miles on it, but because it has the LFP battery, that doesn't matter that much. I plan to drive this car until the solid-state battery EV Tesla cars start coming out in 2027. Now, think about this. If I drive this car for three years, it will pretty much pay for itself in gas savings alone, and right now, I could sell it for the same price I paid for it on the used market. I probably would get more than I paid for it because I cleaned the radiators (it has two radiators) on the car and that dramatically improved its range and battery ratings.
Honestly, for you, I would try to get a great deal from Tesla on a NEW RWD base Model 3. It has a lot of room for your family, it has a rear infotainment screen to entertain your kids on trips. They can watch movies and play games on it. It has almost all of the same features and the more expensive Model 3 versions have, there is very little difference. It has an LFP battery, which will last a very long time and maintain 90 - 97% of its capacity. Here in America, there is no federal rebate, but in Canada, you will get the full $7,000 off of the cost. Everything will be under warranty. The battery will have a full 8-year warranty. The base Model 3, with the LFP battery, has a pretty good resale value with the lower costs that Tesla has implemented. It's VERY fast, it will get 300 of miles of range in the city in temperate weather. It costs very little to charge it. It gets 5 MILES PER KW in the city. That efficiency is unheard of. it has luxury suspension. If you pay $99.00 a year Tesla will connect your car to the internet, which is a streaming deal. it has luxury sound deadening. The only real maintenance is to keep the radiators clean, and you can buy screen filters to do keep bugs, dirt, rocks, leaves and other debris from collecting on the two radiators on Amazon for $30.00.
Based on the pricing you have mentioned, the base Model 3 RWD with the LFP battery with the $7000 dollar Canadian government rebate would probably be cheaper than the Prius Prime. And as I mentioned, right now it's tough to find a Prius Prime because Toeyota doesn't make that many of them. I live in the Phoenix metro area, which is the 5th largest city in the nation, and I could only find one Prius Prime that MIGHT be coming in two or three months when I looked at them. I own a 4-wheel Drive Toyota Tacoma, so I am not a Toyota hater, but the Model 3 is better than the RAV 4, the Tacoma, the Camry, and every other Toyota I have ever driven BY FAR.
One other thing to consider. The Tesla UI interface is THE standard for the automotive industry. I worked over 8 months last year in New Orleans and I rented a bunch of brand new cars, including the Hyundai Sante Fe, the Rav 4, the Nissan Rogue, the Nissan Murano and other cars and their UI system are like dinosaurs compared to Tesla's UI system. Tesla is better in every way than Toyota's outdated, buggy, hard-to-use software interface on its cars. It's not even close.
In my opinion, Model 3 is the best choice by far. And since money and longevity are important to you, I suggest you get the brand new base Model 3 with the LFP battery. It will last longer and have better resale value than the non-LFP battery Model 3 versions. I guarantee you that you won't miss the 600-mile range of the Prius because you can fast-charge the RWD base Model 3 from 10 - 80% (if you precondition the battery in cold weather) in 20 - 25 minutes at Level 3 Tesla Superchargers and Tesla has installed Level 3 chargers along every highway, in every major city and in most midsize cities. My 2022 Model 3 took about 22 minutes to charge from 15-80% at a Tesla supercharger, and it does not charge as fast as the 2024 Model 3. You can travel to any major city using the Tesla supercharger network. It is the best charging network on the planet.
Biggest complaint on ALL three types is the high cost of purchase! I spent $42k on an SE RAV4 Prime in 2021. At the time the MOST expensive car I’d ever owned. Traded it in April 2023 for $42k (yes that’s right) and purchased a $47k Pacifica PHEV. I was happy with the resale value of the Toyota. I’m NOT happy with the value of the pacifica. My KBB is now around $28k with 22k miles. I know, many will say well no shit, it’s a Chrysler, what did you expect?! But, that much of a loss in 15 months is pathetic to me. I may be dating myself, but to me $45k is still A LOT of money for a depreciating asset. These days however, $45k seems to be entry level. Same with houses. Everything is inflated and overpriced. For millions of people the cost of any of these; HEV, PHEV, or full BEV is simply too high. What we need are fuel efficient AND affordable cars (all three types) that start at $20k!! I guess I should keep dreaming though because that isn’t going to happen I guess. The Chinese seem to have figured it out with their BYD cars though..
Yeah that's really interesting. Hopefully your Pacifica (which is a really nice vehicle btw... we've considered it) lasts for years and even though on paper doesn't hold high value, is a workhorse for your family. I feel the same as you about the price point... we bought our Sante Fe in 2014 and even though the engine died on us... they replaced it for free outside of warranty and it's running really well. If it was a Toyota we could probably still sell it for 20k right now, but we'll probably still be able to drive it for 5+ years at which point I feel like we will have gotten our monies worth. But yeah, I hear a lot of good things about BYD.
You bought a Chrysler, probably the most unreliable vehicle.
In ten years you would have a worn out hybrid, you dont mention brake jobs, exhaust systems, water pump and timing belt , emissions parts and the price of gas in ten years. If you bought a tesla in ten years you could swap out for a new battery pack if you even need one. Postpone your purchase for two years get a new tesla with a million mile battery and the ability to turn on FSD, which wasn't mentioned but if your my age is an absolute game changer.
Yeah I hear you 👊 I've never considered leading before but that almost seems like a decent idea right now... Lease for a few years then buy an EV. We've had an ice car for 10 years now. It hadn't been too crazy with regular maintenance. That would be sweet of it was cheaper with an electric though.
There are 2 more brands besides Tesla able to use Superchargers with adapters: Ford, Rivian. In 2025 most EVs will be able to use Superchargers natively or with adapters. By 2026 only compliance vehicles wouldn't be able to charge on CCS1 or NACS: VW eGolf, Mercedes-Benz B class EV, Ford Focus EV, Nissan Leaf, Fiat 500 old EV, Mitsubishi iMiev, Kia Soul EV.
Even today in the fall of 2024 there are plenty of EV choices besides Teslas.
We've been car shopping lately and while you are right, there is a lot of variety, from our research, the value and features you get from Tesla still seems to be ahead of the pack. It's a tough choice (especially with Elon being insane) but it seems like Tesla still seems a tiny bit a head in the EV world. We'll see how long that lasts.
@@TheSAHDLife To me some extra EV features do not value more than drawbacks: having a harsh ride in Tesla, no choice for 1 pedal driving (in our Chevrolet Bolt EUV Premier we have a button switching from 1 pedal for me to normal for my wife), very high insurance and reparation costs, extreme unreliability starting from constantly breaking door handles, suspension in front, chewing tires, curbing tires, no Android Auto or Apple play, coupe shape compromising rear seats/luggage. I support Ukraine. I will never pay money for creepy RuZZian troll Elon Musk.
@@TheSAHDLife Both me and my wife appreciate comfortable ride which is provided outside harsh ride in Tesla. Besides in depth of Pacific North West of USA and Western Canada there is a very scary situation for using EVs for long trips in the winter. I believe the place is ideal for a home charged dedicated commuter EV. With that in mind we own a Chevrolet Bolt EUV Premier. We don't need or use DC chargers. Therefore have no need for a harsh riding, costly insured Tesla from a RuZZian troll Elon Musk.
I own a 2018 Hyundai Ioniq plug in hybrid which get 52mph on gas and 29 on full EV. Let me tell you it's not worth it to use the EV only in California. Using gas is way cheaper. 52mph with gas for $4.59 per gallon or 29 miles on EV for $4.26 as of writing this. It's a no brainer. A full hybrid is better in CA. Maybe in cheaper states like in the south or midwest where electricity is cheap. But then again, gas is also cheap where electricity is cheap.
That's really interesting. We just picked up an EV and our fuel savings are incredible... But like you said we live in a place where electricity is very cheap so for us it's a huge deal. Are you happy with the Hyundai ioniq overall?
@TheSAHDLife yes. It's a great car. I can drive 632 miles on a full tank and full charge. Very reliable car also. I just wish it had faster acceleration. 0 to 60 in 9 seconds is pretty slow. I guess because I've been driving sports cars all my life and got used to 5 to 6 second 0 to 60's
I would love to have a Tesla If I could afford one as for the battery I am sure the future Solid state batteries will be able to replace current batteries.
I know, me too. I think they'll be dropping a new Model Y soon will be interesting to check out!
One aspect that is often overlooked for PHEV, is that if you use it in EV mode all the time, your engine and fuel are going to go bad and you'll have premature damage to those. It's difficult to find a place where PHEV would be the best choice.
If you do a lot of long trips, a HEV is probably your best choice if you can't live with an extra 20 minutes of charging time (also electricity on fast chargers is not cheap). PHEVs will have bigger consumption because of the extra-weight and you wouldn't get as much benefit of a bigger battery.
If you do very few long trips in a year, an EV is a good choice as you won't have those 20 minutes extra a lot of times in the year. A PHEV would probably suffer premature degradation of engine and battery (since the battery is smaller, you do more cycles, even-though it should still last quite long and will be replaced for cheaper).
On paper, PHEV is a great idea and I was planning to buy the Prius PHEV. But I ended up with an EV instead after doing all my research because I would be using it in EV mode for 6 months straight so very bad for the ICE. And the EV is so much more fun to drive. Regarding tires, it depends on how you drive. I get the same millage between my EV and my ICE on a set of tires.
Interesting comment! I would have guessed they would have thought of that (gas remaining in the vehicle in some cases for months on end) but maybe they didn't. What EV did you end up getting?
And yeah, I mean to be honest the range would never be an issue for us if we went straight EV. We both work from home and it would be a commuter 99% of the time. We could use our other vehicle for long trips though we don't fully trust it won't die on us again (Hyundai!)... but it does have a new engine in it.
@@johngonon1507 Thanks for sharing the link. Sorry, what's a Smart #3?
@@TheSAHDLife It's a model from the "Smart" brand (50/50 between Mercedes and Geely)
@@johngonon1507 Cool! Never heard of it.
Our Ford Kuga PHEV starts the gas engine every now and then to keep it working. It does make it use more gas than it should "need" to looking at our driving patterns.
Our family got a duel-fuel Kia Sportage SX (PHEV) just 7 months ago in March of 2024. Even though we live quite a distance for work (70 km), we are averaging about 80% of all kilometers being EV only, achieving over 93% over the last few weeks. Our fuel savings are more than $55 (Canadian) a every week as compared to the turbo-4 gas version. Also, I'm happy to report that the EV range (in the summer) on the highway @ 105 km/hr matches the manufacturers estimate of about 54 kms, however, if you choose to drive country roads between 70 and 90 km/hr, you'll see EV range of 65+ km like we do every week. Our max EV range was over 70 km on 1 charge BUT that was in perfect conditions and averaging about 70 km/hr. Did we consider the Rav 4 Prime plugin? Yes, but not for long given the 10k price premium, loud engine, and over lack of cabin refinement. Rav 4 prime has much more power (300+ vs the Sportage phev's 264) BUT I still find the 224 lb/ft of torque the pancake motor makes on our PHEV more than adequate in town and on the highway too! Sport mode is INCREDIBLE and has all the grunt you could want, easily outpacing our previous Acura RL 3.5 V6. There is simply no comparison on interiors and tech (kia vs. Toyota) as Kia is loaded with every creature comfort, not least of which is the HDA (highway drive assist) which is completely addicting. On well marked roads (even off- highway) I always have it engaged. Conclusion, I would agree that dual fuel vehicles like PHEVs are the right choice in this time where industries are transitioning as it gives our family the best of both worlds. Crazy savings weekly on gas, crazy quiet and smooth ev driving and 5.8 l/100kms on our recent 1300km 3 day road trip!! (We were able to charge up twice over night) Without charging, we still averaged 6.3 l/100km on the highway with cruise set to 65 mphr/ 106 km/hr. Setting cruise to 120 km/hr drops our hwy efficiency down to 7.8 l/100km (no thanks). If your goal is to save money, pollute less, and drive the future without constant range anxiety, PHEVs are my recommendation!
This is a great comment thank you for taking the time. It really surprises me when I see the fuel economy being so much different the faster that you go. Very eye-opening and it's neat to see some actual numbers and data.
Ok guys,Which one will we choice? 😂
I select PHEV
To be honest I think any one of them is a good option depending on your needs. For us because we are a one family vehicle I just don't think that Ev is versatile enough for us.... So a hybrid or plug-in hybrid would be amazing. But if we end up keeping our gas car and getting a second vehicle then a EV would be perfect for getting around town and 100% charging it at home. Which plug-in would you get?!
not sure why the bus takes 13 hours to get to victoria, i feel like that isnt correct
Lol good catch! When I punch it in right now it says 3 hours and 58 minutes for the bus. I wonder what happened the day I took that footage!!? 😆
Consider BYD SEALION 6 plugin hybrid its my choice after a moth of comparing.
Aw I wish we got them in Canada. Have you got it yet? If so, how is it?
@@TheSAHDLife Not yet but soon, i'll let you know .
There's nothing more pathetic than an old Prius.
Hehe. I mean saving money is pretty nice though...
Battery also costs 15-30k to replace
Yeah that's bonkers!!! It seems on average they last for a very long time with minimal degradation. I mean even at 80% battery which is usually like 10 years later that is still lots of range for around town. I wouldn't want it as my main vehicle though.
The maths are a bit off.. well the values,.. u took long range m3 vs prius prime se… top trim se 50k..and tesla a bigger car’ with more space
Yeah I hear you... I was just sharing which one we would consider. We would probably only buy the Tesla long range... then for the Prius Prime, the SE is tempting because it gets the extra range. So it was more like which models were interesting to us, not base model vs base model kind of thing.
@@TheSAHDLife Don't bother with the long range; you don't need it. RWD is cheaper, you can charge the battery to 100% daily, and the battery is more durable.
@@anonymousfu Well, we live in a very hilly area and it rains a lot. AWD is nice to have but yeah, it costs a LOT more. Have to think more about that.
really helpful breakdown, thanks for sharing this
Glad you found the video! Thanks for the comment 👊
If you can - get the smallest, simplest gasoline vehicle that meets your needs. No hybrid, no EV - get something like a used Yaris. The overall savings will vastly surpass any electric type car and simple cars are relatively low cost to repair. A Yaris can last 500,000 miles. Don't buy with your ego.
Yeah I hear that. We aren't opposed to that idea especially since our second vehicle will only really be for dropping kids off and errands etc... for our main vehicle it's nice to have something a little safer when we're going on the freeway with kids etc you know? But yeah, good idea.
you forgot to factor the people you are helping kill with your ice vehicle. According to the WWW : "Globally, it is estimated that vehicle exhaust emissions are responsible for approximately 385,000 premature deaths each year. This includes the impacts from various pollutants such as fine particulate matter (PM2.5) and nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which are known to cause respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, among other health problems.The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that outdoor air pollution causes about 4.2 million premature deaths annually, while studies indicate that total deaths from all anthropogenic air pollution sources could be as high as 8.8 million per year". Do you care?
Wow i love eco pandering, i surely dont get enough if that in my life. Thank god he didnt bring that up
"helping kill people" is certainly a way of looking at things! I hear you though. I think most of us just need/want vehicles in our lives so we can get groceries, take our kids places, and explore. We don't think much beyond that when it comes to things like the effects on the earth etc, and yes, I do care and think we should all do our part. I mean that's what the video is about right? I'm asking people what is the next choice (I didn't mention buying an ICE) that we should take. I think the choices I suggested are all better for the environment but perhaps there are more things to consider. I think it's great you are taking that stance, but it feels like you are trying to shame me, and in my opinion, it's not the best way to start a conversation.
I bought a used five year old Chevy volt five years ago. Every penny I've spent on maintenance and repair on this car (which has been a lot) was because of the ICE motor. My fuel costs have gone from about one hundred fifty U.S. in gas to about thirty U.S. in electricity. I am saving every dime I can to be able to afford a good fully electric car. If the pricing for electric cars was equivalent to I.C.E. I would be satisfied fully electric car owner right now.
Bummer to hear about the annoying maintenance you've had with the vehicle but those fuel savings are no joke. Very interesting. What do you think you would get next if you could?
Why do you think they are hitting cheap Chinese cars with tariffs so hard?
Those oil changes are so annoying. $150 every 12 months.
How about waiting for your Tesla to charge in the middle of nowhere.( or your wife on her own?)
Toyota or Telsa??
Toyota thanks
Yeah I agree about the charging. I've never liked that idea. I think for us we could get away with charging it at home 100% of the time. But in that scenario when you need to go somewhere far, I don't love it.
The Tesla tells you when and where to charge on trips and the longest I have stopped to charge was 25 minutes. Barely long enough to pee, walk the dog and get a coffee bite to eat while it charges. lol
@Greenspaceservices that's pretty amazing. I think in a way a lot of us non Tesla owners are quite jealous hehe. Well I am at least!
Looking for BYD DM-I,full charge and full tan can run 2100KM. CHEAP price!!!😅😅😅
😆 exactly! Is that too much to ask??😂
I believe you've miscalculated. Firstly, hard to imagine you could get $25,000 for any 10-year-old car..... Particularly one with a purchase price of less than $ 50,000. That assumption is nuts. After 10 years of ownership you would be lucky to get 10 to 15% of the purchase price. The other assumption you're making for your calculation is you're comparing honestly priced Toyota to a Tesla which is anything but honest. That's comparing apples and oranges .
Yeah you're not wrong. I kind of realize that later as far as the actual numbers for a 10-year-old vehicle are worth... But I still do think that it would be much easier to resell the Toyota either way. I tried to give a very fair warning that I would have some bad numbers!
And yeah Toyota versus Tesla... I mean that's the world we live in! Those are definitely two of the hot sellers these days and even though it might not be fair guys like me are considering each of them.
I I'm looking into purchasing a RAV4 Prime. I would prefer a full EV but wonder if we're still in the early adopter phase of EVS... And what that looks like.
I keep my cars for 10 years, usually have over 300,000 km at the end, and they're almost worthless.
@@steve2483 We went to Toyota last week as we wanted to the drive the Prius Prime... they don't have any of them... they don't have any non-Prime Prius in stock!!! He basically said you had to order it without driving it then decide once it arrives if you still want it. Crazy world. So if you really are considering a Prime, if it's anything like it is here you might want to get a deposit down now if you even maybe want it in 3-18 months! 😫
Yes, it's a different world these days..... My local dealer said 12 months. Yet I've also heard there are tons in the US. Go figure
When we ordered our Prime in 2022 the dealer offered $10,000 for our 12 year old Prius C. That's half of what we paid when it was new. Thought that was good value.
Such as great presentation, I've had my 2018 (6 year old) Hyundai Ioniq 28kwh for the past 4 years and the battery is 97% health after 73,000kms, It is so much fun to drive and miss all the petrol stations, oil changes etc. Would not go to a petrol car, the extra cost of poor resale value and deprecation value - I do not care, it is fun to drive than driving something that drinks dinosaur juice. Looking forward to my next purchase the long range 77 MG4 EV.
That's awesome! I do like hearing good success stories like this. We want a Hyundai for 10 years but the engine died on us despite parking in the garage and regular maintenance at about 50,000 miles. I'm not going to lie I left a bit of a sour taste in our mouth but it's running great now it has a new engine. You would buy another Hyundai?
@@TheSAHDLife I wish Hyundai continued with their classic Ioniq by now they could have put in a larger battery like a 70 or 80 kwh, the economy in this thing is amazing, in the 77k kms the only issue I had was the charge actuator was faulty and would not charge the car, but this was replaced under warranty no problems since. YES would def buy another but ALAS they do not make EV's like the classic Ioniq anymore so heading over to the MG4 77 as my next purchase.
@@clayton4115 Wow that's really cool. They don't sell those here in North America unfortunately, at least not that I can tell. How long do you thin you will keep your current Ioniq?
@@TheSAHDLife I love driving my current Ioniq however due to the poor state of ev infrastructure here in Australia is it not good for country road trips. Will be upgrading in the next 6 months or so to the MG4 77. The Ioniq is going to my wife as she likes driving it more than her Kia Picanto 😄 and she only does around 5000 kms per year and in a few years time my daughter will get her L's so it may be in the family for quite a while.
Wouldn’t cheaper and better batteries also hurt the resale value of hybrids and gas cars though?
Interesting question, and I don't know. If I knew the battery wasn't going to cost $20,000 to replace on a used car that was out of warranty I'd feel a little better about it? Maybe...
What if you choose Kona EV, that cost much less
Yeah that's not a bad idea. We should probably check out a few more options. We did test out the Ionic but it's a bit pricey still.
You are missing the lost opportunity cost on the extra money you will spend for the full EV. Most of the cost analysis I see on vehicle purchases overlook this factor. That 20k extra you spent on the EV when invested in an appreciating asset over 10 years could totally transform which vehicle makes the most financial sense.
Oh for sure, I thought I tried to address that in the video. I will say that while it is a lost/sunken cost for a lot of people, for others they do get the satisfaction of enjoying the benefits of a more premium products and being early adopters to new technology. That's not worth it for ME but some people really get value from it. But some people are just terrible with money too. Waiting it out and seeing what happens seems to be the smartest options. We don't NEED a vehicle quite yet, it's tough having 1 still but we save so much we will do this I think until we are forced to get a 2nd. What would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I drive an F150, not the hybrid version, but I would consider a plug-in hybrid truck down the road, especially if the tax incentives put them on par with the straight hybrid.
Extra 20k for an EV??? I'm not sure where you got this idea. The difference in upfront cost is more like 5k.
@johnlodge8546 I googled the average price of an ICE car vs the average price of an EV.
@@johnminichielli8957 that data is skewed by a lot of premium EVs and fewer budget EVs, but budget EVs exist. Especially in the used market now
EV still needs Servicing and transmission fluid change.
More expensive
True. It would be nice to do 99% of my charging at home though. But yeah I don't know if I'm quite sold on EV quite yet.
Reality is. Hybrids and PHEV resale value could drop off a cliff at any time soon. Assuming that a hybrid will have good resale in 3 to 5 years would be wrong. So you should remove resale price f these as part time f your consideration. EV prices are dropping, and range is getting longer. I actually think buying an EV now would ensure better resale, compared to ICE and Hybrid
Yeah and that's the tricky part about buying right now, nobody seems to know. A lot of comments have mentioned leasing which I've never considered before but almost seems like a decent idea. Everyone says EV prices are dropping but they are still unaffordable for us for anything decent unfortunately. I'd like to get an EV next.
Hahahhahahahahah....you are clueless.......
Pls consider Sealion 6 - BYD
I wish we got them in Canada but we don't 😫
Gas - Buy Used;
Hybrid/PHEV - Buy New;
EV - Lease only
That's not bad actually. I've never leased a car before... might be fun to really math out.
@@TheSAHDLife EV leasing is the best option for EVs. Monthly Lease starts from ~$175 for a Nissan Leaf to ~$299 for Polestar 2( current deal). Bought gas vehicles on 5year mortgage but never kept a vehicle beyond 6 years due to obsolescence and service costs after 60k miles. Adv leasing is no extended warranty or service contracts, less service costs. New car feel, family happy, Buy back option, no depreciation. We make iphone payments every month for 2 years just like leasing, so car is same.
@@bmsrak6860 Usually there's a big chunk down though right? Might have to look into it :) Sure would be handy to have a lil' EV to run errands in.
@@TheSAHDLife Car with $50k dealer price @6.5% current APR with $0 down and 3 year loan, the OTD price comes to ~$53k with emi ~$1600. APR at current rates, it is not worth it. Negotiate Lease with 0 down.
My mom almost got an electric hybrid model that you can plug in, and I'm so glad she didn't. 👎🏻⚡🙏🏻🚘
My folks got one. They like it! It's only been 2 years... we'll see if it keeps going without issues.
@@TheSAHDLife that's very interesting and I'm glad it worked out for them. I'm just a little bit apprehensive and I'm a tech person which is saying something 😆❤️⚡🚘 my mom was going to get one of those plug-in hybrids from Hyundai they don't drive much now so maybe it might work out for them in the future if they get one
@@m.hreels9822 We got our third Prius (first PHEV), in March. Zero issues with the first two and we got half of what we paid new for our 12 year old Model C at trade-in. After 3600+Km with the new Prime we have purchased exactly $46.00 worth of fuel. Our cost to recharge the battery is about $1.73 and that brings us over 80Km. And, the quality of the car is outstanding. Your Mom is missing-out.
I've been doing some checking recently and on the Gen 4 Toyota Prius primes, so 2016 through 2022. It looks like it is about $14,000 to $15,000 to replace the high voltage battery in them. One of my local Toyota dealerships said that their price the wholesale price of the battery was $11,800 and they're probably going to add another $1,000 or so to the cost of that battery in getting it to me and then there's all the labor hours for taking the old battery out and putting the new battery in and reflashing the car's computer and ECU to play nicely with the new battery.
Yeah that's not cheap! I mean that shouldn't be necessary for what 10 to 15 years still based on how long the older ones have gone? That generation even though it doesn't have quite as much power they sure seem efficient. And I can't tell if I love or hate the design of the rear of that car lol
Thank you! I have been considering a phev for awhile now and you made it so easy to compare the annual costs, incentives and 10 year costs to consider the overall value. I'm a geek and loved the numbers! I will let you know what I decide. I had not considered a Toyota before and plan to test drive one now. Due to the consideration of the longevity future resale value/ Currently, I prefer luxury styles vs truck style so we will see how this compares to the others in this class.
Glad you found the video! It was a lot of fun really breaking it down... For us it's an easy choice if we e going to get two vehicles, but we can still get away with having one for our family so for that it's a bit of a trickier choice. What are your top considerations?
I went with a 2024 Corolla Cross AWD hybrid vs Rav 4 Prime, in OryGONE, high gas prices, cheap electric, 5.9¢/kwh. It would take 700k pure electric miles to make up the up front cost difference. I drive 6k/yr. I hypermile, get 80+MPG NON freeway. Freeway is @50. Super happy with choice. BTW forever drivetrain, no mechanical pumps, alternator, starter, no wear parts in eCVT, yada, yada. 0-60 7.0... same cargo area as Rav 4 with seats down, more front leg room, yada, yada,...
That seems like a good choice! Nice. I don't even think I've heard of the cross. We need a little bit more size but that seems like a great size for everyday usage and you made very fair points.
A few more things I left unmentioned, safety ,❤teslas are in far less accidents much safer if you do have one. Sentry mode, dog mode, never have a brake job, unless you play too hard. Hybrids are practical but the future is electric. Finally excellent well thought out post.
I do hear great things about safety. I like that. I'm not going to lie, I want one. I just can't quite afford it yet as they are still pricey here 😫
Live the YOLO life and get the Tesla lol 😀
Yes! My man 👊
It's what I really want to do to be honest... And I'm not going to lie if I could somehow make that work it would be hard not to extra Yolo on the performance one 😆
I see terrible resale value as a good thing. It means I can buy used at a good price. People who buy new are either wealthy (and can afford that depreciation) or they are financially challenged.
Hehe... yeah I'm with you, buying used is a great way to save a lot of money. It's just tough sometimes finding one that was cared for well and is fairly priced. Covid kind of changed the used car market, at least around here anyway.
@@TheSAHDLifeI have never had an issue buying a high quality used car. Now, I have purchased a lemon before, but I am 100% positive it was a lemon for the original purchaser as well. But I have never run into a situation yet where the car had a history of abuse. At least not noticably.
PHEV must have 150miles full charge!!!! when????
Did I say that in the video?! I don't see that happening, but that would be incredible.
@@TheSAHDLife or maybe a hybrid tesla!
@jan1202 haha one can dream! I wish they would team up with Toyota though... How cool would that be.
@@TheSAHDLife hopefully. NIO battery pack seems not gonna work! but yes, that’s the dream!
In 10 years the battery will cost 10% what cost now
That sure would be sweet!
Hi i am Aubrey’s brother the Aubrey from kindergarten good luck hope one day you get 1 million subscribers
Hey man, I remember you! Really appreciate your support 👊 Hope you guys are doing awesome!
Probably BYD best bet lol
Yeah you're great things. They don't sell them in Canada though :(
BEV’s are so not there yet. I can drive my old Hyundai Sonata ICE vehicle from Western Washington to Utah in about 12 hours. I mapped out that exact same trip in a Tesla Model Y, and it’s over 18 hours. I don’t know very many people who are willing to put up with that inconvenience. Not me.
Yeah my conclusion is that they aren't for that yet you know? They are great if ALL you do is commute, or need a second car for running errands... and you have a main car to use for the road trips.
Hi SAHD, very good video. I would like to add some key points to this topic:
1. Batteries will become much cheaper in 10 years if you look at the price trend of EV batteries.
2. According to HLDI, Tesla is much safer than most hybrid cars. I personally value this a lot. I'm not sure if the hybrid you mentioned has AWD; if not, driving in any Canadian city other than Vancouver will be challenging in the winter.
3. Hybrid cars don't depreciate as quickly because their current supply doesn't meet demand (especially for Toyota). However, once the supply meets demand, they will depreciate faster since hybrid cars have higher maintenance costs than EVs and gas cars due to having both gas and electric engines and the fast technology advancement in the hybrid market.
Good comment, thanks! I hope you're right about the batteries... that would be a nice peace of mind to have. So what would you buy right now?
@@TheSAHDLife I just bought a 2022 model y long range a week ago. Currently the older model have very good deals.
@@yangliu1376 Beauty! I'm jealous. Seems like a great vehicle.
Hybrids do not have more maintenance actually because hybrids don't have an alternator, starter, or serpentine belt that has to be replaced over time like a gas engine.
Until you own an EV, speculating on how long it’ll last is a little pointless. Some have personal testimonies out at this point of their Teslas (and I dislike Tesla) running 300,000 miles with surprisingly little degradation to the battery. And even if these are anomalies, if you don’t take care of the car’s battery, it will matter little whatever theoretical mileage number you should be able to achieve.
Secondly, plug-in and non-plug-in hybrid batteries also die, and faster than EVs. Taking care of a car’s high-voltage battery is important. Keeping the battery somewhere in the 80% range at most is where they’ll want to be, with a typical charging range of 20%-80%. Technically, you want between 60%-80%, but I would say charging a car everyday would be inconvenient for most. In any case, with 20% battery left, a typical Tesla might have 56 miles left. That’s more than enough to feel comfortable doing what you need to do and charging when you’re done. At 42 miles per full charge, you’re more than likely going to run your battery down on a daily basis and charge it to full on a daily basis, which is bad for battery health. Keep in mind, your car drives 42 miles until it doesn’t. All of those issues EVs have (driving up steep hills and/or fast and losing miles faster) are exasperated with a lower kWh battery. Additionally, plug-in and non-plug in hybrids may be capped at certain speeds when using the battery only. My mom’s 2013 Prius can only drive at speeds of 20mph or less using the battery. My old hybrid couldn’t even drive only using the battery without accelerating at unsafe, slow speeds. My 2010 Fusion Hybrid battery died at 196,000 miles. My mom’s Prius is still going. My 2017 Focus Electric has 35k miles on it and still charges to full-ish capacity, around 120 miles of actual range and 130-145 estimated range (the car has an MPGe rating of 115 miles, so I’m still outperforming the official EPA rating).
I say this all to say, looking for theoretical costs per year, five-years, decade is smart on paper, but real results vary greatly. You will always feel like you’re taking a risk on EVs until they are the majority of cars on the road, being purchased, worked on, and traded in.
Yeah good points. Way to make the decision even harder! 🤣
I think for those of us shopping on paper, the averages help sway the decision. So if batteries in 2024 from 10 year old Teslas are failing at, even a 1-2% rate (I'm just making that up), that's still a pretty good chance of a failure rate compared to a Hybrid or even ICE car of the same age... which, out of warranty is a much cheaper replacement.
You are right though in the sense that every car tech will have lemons since quality control and the odds of things malfunctioning is just a part of life and a result of producing so many cars.
If I was to buy something right now it would probably be an EV. But they are just so expensive in Canada we can't really afford one yet.
Lease an ev now wait for better tech in a couple of years
Yeah that's not a bad idea at all. Never leased though. There's something kinda scary about it heh. Might have to learn more though as it's hard to commit to buying right now though.
@TheSAHDLife I was thinking about it the same way as you. With how much fluctuating the ev market is doing right now, I did not want to get caught upside-down. The tech is moving fast, I can't wait to see what it's like in 2 years! Also, it's my first ev. Wanted to be sure I liked the whole idea!
At some point, the government will extract the equivalent of fuel tax from EV charging / mileage.
Right? I wonder how long it'll take...
@@TheSAHDLife It may take a while to trap as many evangelists as possible before its inevitable introduction. Though, New Zealand has reportedly proposed such a km tax on EVs including PEVs!
Honestly and ironically, the gov't not meeting its goal in EV sales to replace ICE vehicles would mean a major delay in that fuel tax, which might be beneficial for current EV owners.
I have put 70$ of gaz in 7 months with my prime
Yeah that's sweet!
But you left out the cost of electric which on average is half the cost of gas.....300,000 miles and you might break even Goober.....
@@TheSAHDLife i can charge for free at work ;)
We debating Tesla 3 vs prius. My wife has driven 2006 and 2014 Prius so familiar and trust Toyota. I just got quote on 240v installation in garage today $3000🤦🏼♂️. Prius will prob make more sense. Tesla insurance will go up $60/mo as well.
Yeah that's a lot of money to get into one and have the full EV experience right? I think it also depends on how much time you spend in the vehicle. The long run savings on the EV and the comfort and experience of the ride could be worth it depending on your lifestyle. But I think the Prius Prime would be pretty sweet too. Seems like a good choice!
not sure why no car makers can come up with an energy system or a car that can dominate the market.
I know right? We are still keeping our gas car for now since nothing seems like a must-buy right now.
@@TheSAHDLife yeah, gas will not go out, before it goes expensive first. Honestly phev, is a better choice for now. Automakers are just maximizing their profit while they can instead of truly solving problems.
@pym75 I too am surprised that the amount of people that think gas cars aren't going to be on the road in 10 years from now and that gas stations will be shutting down... I hope there becomes more viable alternatives that are better for the Earth but there's big dollars in gas so I don't see that going away soon.
@@TheSAHDLife it is shutting down gradually, many gas station are slowly turning into charging station, which may not be the right model (charging at parkings, home, malls, in door parking may be the right place). When gasoline supply will go on until it trickles, price goes up fast, so fast, those who bought gasoline car just before it shutdown will have junk in the garage. I see it seriously PHEV will still be the most viable option for the next 10-15 years if you are to buy now. at least you can still charge to power it, fill if there are gasoline supply.
A hybrid car is two cars, a bad electric car and a bad gasoline car, inside the body of one car. A hybrid car is big on the outside and small on the inside. A hybrid car has a more complex construction compared to any other car. All cars need to be maintained and repaired.
Yeah I hear you. I've never owned one but it seems like an interesting compromise between two technologies... But I agree kind of seems worse at each of them though might be quite convenient at times
@@TheSAHDLife A gasoline car can be compared to a chemical factory. It has catalysts, analyzers sensors. My car had a problem with the exhaust gas sensor. The car had driven only 80,000 km and the sensor needed to be replaced. During the repair, the original, but unfortunately low-quality sensor was installed. In order to get the car working properly again, I had to go to the car dealership 4 times and it took me two months. After a few months, it was necessary to replace the adblue pump, which cost €500. All hybrid cars have countless sensors and other wonderful devices. The difference is that a gasoline car has room to change parts. But the hybrid car is so tightly packed with equipment that the car has to be disassembled to get a part during repairs.
10 years on a pure ev? Plug in rav4 baby!
Quite the wait to get one around here! Would be sweet though. Do you have one or are getting one?
@@TheSAHDLife have one on hold hopefully it's ready this week. From what I see in ca. these are ready available to order.
I probably missed it, but you forgot to factor in Opportunity Cost. Plus, battery cost keeps going down. In ten years, battery replacement will be cheaper. Also, the resale value of Hybrid will fall because BEVs will have lower up front cost and low overall cost of ownership. Most buyers will stay away from Hybrids for these reasons, in my honest opinion 😊
Yeah I hear you... I see a lot of 60+ buying hybrids right now. They are tough to get (Toyota's/Volvo's) around here. I have a feeling EV tech will move fast but it'll be the younger folks buying them. It will be interesting to see if people will be able to put newer/cheaper batteries in the older cars. I can't see why not. I wonder if putting a new battery in a 2014 Model S right now costs less then it did say, 7 years ago.