Mario Kart Items: How Have They Evolved?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- Sign up to Milanote for free with no time limit: milanote.com/designdoc0723
Mario Kart is one of the most beloved game series around. It pioneered a whole subgenre thanks to its item design. The series has had 30 years of little tweaks to its item system that have added up to big changes. Let's take a tour of the 8 mainline Mario Kart games, look at their item design, and see how Nintendo has made something both accessible and timeless.
Featuring:
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart 64
Mario Kart: Super Circuit
Mario Kart Double Dash!!!
Mario Kart DS
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Kart 7
Mario Kart 8 and 8 Deluxe
There are a billion items in some of the arcade games, maybe that'll be a future episode.
Patrons get ad-free episodes early, plus access to our behind-the-scenes podcast.
Support Design Doc on Patreon: / designdoc
Design Doc on Twitter: / warbot400
#gamedesign #mariokart8deluxe #supermariokart - เกม
Thanks to Milanote for sponsoring this video! Sign up for free and start your next creative project: milanote.com/designdoc0723
you can dodge the blue shell in DS with a mushroom. But the timing is strict
@@xt3100 Surprised this wasn't mentioned.
@designDoc you might want to look at dodging blue shells in DS i managed to mushroom boost to dodge one in 1st once. It might be frame perfect.
That's probably the best sponsorship transition that I've EVER seen :)
Dont even need a mushroom, you can just mini turbo out of your way if a blie shell, it's so easy in ds with right kart that is
I always disliked the change to the fake item boxes. They should blend in with the existing item boxes, not be obviously fake
Truuue, they're basically glorified banana peels at that point
Well if you’re focusing on trying to stay ahead and going fast you’re not gonna have much time to realize if it’s fake
Maybe they can maybe have a slightly different order of color change and the inverted question mark to make it more different but shouldn’t be that noticeable, the red should only be there for like 3cm before crashing into the fake item box.
Yeah, I liked how they looked in DS, but there's the whole bottom screen thing...
...making fake items boxes red was absolutely insane, though. You will catch any player exactly one time when they say "oh what's the red box?" and then never again. Literally just banana peels. I never feel like I'm tricking anyone or playing with them in a cool way!
@@amberhide04Not even glorified. They're objectively worse than bananas because bananas can be used as protection against shells.
One thing that I noticed as a kid was that the blue shell from 64 had two purposes. The first is obviously homing into first place. The second function is quite unique. If you hold it behind you instead of launching it, it'll actually act like an infinite shell. No matter how many items hit it, the blue shell won't disappear.
That's actually really neat
so first has an actual use for the funny exploding shell
Is that just on N64?
@@pnut3844able yes. To the best of my knowledge, MK64 was the only game in the series that did that. From Double Dash onward, the blue shell was airborne.
@@DarkSamus288I believe the blue shell is the same in Super Circuit since in that game you can also hold it behind you
I will forever defend the Blue Shell. It's annoying when you're in first, but catch up mechanics are vital to a fun kart racer. Making it so you can dodge it balances it enough that it managers to serve as the great equalizer it was meant to be.
Agreed, bad catch up items are why I fell off of CTR:NF so hard. Front runners had almost nothing pulling them back with homing missiles and the blue orb being way too weak and blue fire boosting being too strong for those that know how to use it. Over half of the lobby couldn't even finish races online when I played.
In a similar vein, the chain chomp from DD was relatively strong but fake item boxes passed right through it and broke the chain early.
The core fun of a kart racer is being in the pack, you need ways to catch up and rejoin the chaos, and you need ways to pull leaders back into the chaos. This is also why i love tripple red shells, if you time them to have about 1 sec between then they will each cause a spin out instead of just the first. (Absolutely brutal to experience, absolutely amazing to inflict)
@@DesignDoc Yeah, as much as I am a person who enjoys CTR more than MK normally, I don't think that game was ever made with casual races with friends in mind and I think NF only made it worse by making Blue Fire such a prominent mechanic. It makes me appreciate just how fine the balance between player skill and luck are in this series cause I don't think ANY kart racer has managed to get it as right as MK has.
I would love to see Metrics from Nintendo if people join online serves with a toggle for Blue Shell on or Blue Shell Off. would love to see the popular vote decide.
It was good in MK64 and MKSC because it aimed, I repeat, *aimed* for other racers ahead of the one who threw it.
DD, DS, and Wii made it only a hindrance for first and didn't really help those much further behind. 7 and 8 improved upon that. But it's still useless for the one who threw it.
39:00 Oddly enough, the Blooper actually gets a noticeable buff in 2-Player local.
Because the split screen is vertical rather than horizontal, the ink ends up covering closer to 75% of the screen which makes it much easier to run into shells or bananas.
Still not great, but a step in the right direction imo.
Better in 8/Deluxe where it also reduces your traction and steering abilities honestly. It's not too bad at 150cc or slower, but at 200cc it can absolutely make you fall off corners or hit the brakes harder to stay on track.
Something you neglected to mention about Mario Kart 8 and 8DX is the significantly longer post-hit invincibility. This makes it much harder to get comboed by opponents.
This also led to one of my best item plays ever. A common strategy in MK8 frontrunning is running into a banana or obstacle if you see a Blue Shell coming your way. One time when I was frontrunning in single player on GCN Sherbet Land, I was frontrunning and had lap 2 almost complete when I spotted a Blue Shell on the map. With a Banana Peel in my inventory, I strategically threw the peel at the starting line banner, which bounced off and hit me allowing me to tank the Blue Shell.
Not only that, but different setups have different invincibility times.
I think it's kinda funny that the thundercloud was SO bad it is replaced in most modern MKWii modpacks, where instead of shrinking you, you get a mega mushroom
I loved it. It caused even more chaos
I'd like to see the Bowser Shell (and maybe giant items in general) return as an alternative to triple items. Pretty fun using a big item that's more likely to hit something.
Maybe they take more room up
@@augustolasta2468 Mm - If they keep the two item slot system, having some items take up both slots would be an obvious way of innovating on that.
@ArcCaravan I am really glad Tour brought them back. Hopefully that means they are at least being considered for the next console entry in the series!
@@Stephen-Fox Ooh, I really like that idea!
They should let every player pick a special big item before the race starts. That way we can recycle the specials idea from double dash but not making them character specific.
I think the main discourse on Blue Shells stems from the fact that in the earlier games, there were skill based ways to dodge one without an item. In DS, you can time a drift release to the apex of the Blue Shell’s circle animation to just barely skirt past it, but that’s really hard to do and nearly impossible to figure out for most casual players.
Hell, In Super Curcuit, you could block a Blue Shell like any other item as lone as it was aiming for you
There's also the last-second shroom technique.
Well in n64, to counter a blue shell is a another blue shell.
I mean, they are suppossed to stop first place players and avoid them from being so far away from second place. Nerfing Blue Shells further would just make the game so unbalanced.
The fact the Blue Shell doesn't help the person who gets it is the biggest issue.
An item which doesn't help the user and only hurt the person in 1st is terrible. There is no benefit for the people in 4th or further getting this item as 2nd or 3rd will benefit from this as you get hit by an item for using it and the person behind you uses their mushroom, star, red shell, lightning, or anything.
This may be a hot take but I think MKWii's POW block is a very solid item because it forces your opponents to really think about their next move as the POW block appears on their screen and they have like 2 seconds to react. They may go out of their way to go off a ramp and be safe in the air, or they may purposely slow down at a turn to avoid crashing into a wall, meaning that they will have to accelerate back up. It's a nice way to give a weaker lightning to players in the middle of the pack
Agreed. There's room for a weaker version of lightning. I like that it gives you time to react, causing you to suddenly change your strategy and it has great synergy with modern MK track design, giving small bumps and ramps more purpose. Would love them to bring back the POW and make lightning more rare. Either that or or give lightning a short animation before it hits like the POW would be nice.
Also it prompts interaction, as those affected by the POW lose their items. If you're holding onto your items and have to use it suboptimally because of a POW, that feels way less bad than lightning. Plus it creates an ebb and flow with big item interaction points when a POW crops up.
I feel like the player should have more control for when the pow block goes off by choosing when it shrinks/activates. Then they could use mind games and set it off early or later
It’s one of the most strategic items for the player who has it too. Use it in the right spot and you can screw over a lot of the racers ahead of you.
@@cosmicspacething3474 That's super interesting on paper but I'd need to see it in practice. The version I'm imagining, you could control it by causing it to go off between like 3 and 6 seconds.
personally i'd love to see peach/daisy's double dash special come back: the protection hearts, i think it's well balanced between protecting you and then gives you two more items to play with once you hit them
The hearts return in Tour as a special but rather than two hearts that allow you to pick up items it’s a single heart that blocks any damaging item including lightning. They also don’t last forever and disappear after a certain amount of time so you can’t just be invincible in first place the whole race. The heart can be upgraded to have two hearts just like it’s DD incarnation though.
them and their karts were my favorite version
No one will hit you though when they see it. For this item to be balanced you'd have to be unable to use items as well at which point it only protects you from bananas and other items blocking small paths.
I kinda feel like the boo is already enough, because it steels times, and it makes you invincible for a little bit. I know they’re both slightly different, but I feel like one is already enough.
I‘m pretty sure when you drop a Red Shell behind you in Super Circuit, it stays put in place and homes onto the next driver that drives closely past it
The beeping sfx that plays when you're targeted is burned into my memory
It does, basically working as a proximity Mine
@@Swqnky yo, you’re right, I remember that xD
@@frogace55 thanks for the confirmation, it’s been some years since I played the game last
I missed that mechanic smh
The thing about 7 for me is that it's a perfectly good game that has absolutely no unique identity of its own, and where everything unique it does (Lucky 7 and underwater driving, I think?) are also in 8, meaning it's very difficult for it to be anyone's favourite Mario Kart.
...It's also the first time I actually purchased Mario Kart rather than occasionally playing it at a friend's place, so it has a bit of a special bit of nostalgia for me.
It's the first one I played (maybe it was Wii, but likely not), and the first one I played often before my 3DS was sold off (rightfully so, was a bit surprised but understanding)
I like 7 but it brings points down for me due to it having no Vs mode at all. Like I want to play all the great stages out of order but can't and am forced to replay the repeated course pattern in grand prix to even play that game single player. :(
Only unique thing I can think of is that it is the first Mario Kart to allow you t pick your cart by the body, wheels and glider. Also the glider physics were WAY better in 7 vs 8 Deluxe
it also had the glider. and bee
bee isn't in 8. mario kart 7 best game confirmed
@@funtainment777 what do you have for the bee queen
Really, whoever's idea it was to let you hold the items behind you deserves all the raises. It gives so many items much more depth.
Completely wrong
@@lorenzoniccoli99ln🤡
39:03 The Blooper always had that effect of making the CPU skid around since DS, it's just the original Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U didn't have this effect so it's infinitely less useful there
It did get another boon though against players, as in 8/Deluxe it makes karts more slippery and corner worse. This isn't too obvious at slower speeds, but if you're used to 200cc it becomes terrifying as you have to slam the brakes more to avoid sliding off the track completely. It can change your entire racing line in a way it couldn't before.
Items in Mario kart always feel great and understandable because of their association with their original counterparts. Compared to most other kart racers where the items are just generic rockets and such, which don't have much personality
Seeing how items have changed over the years got me thinking: how is the 1up mushroom not in the series yet?! They can make it a defensive item that can take one hit for you, but isn't immune to boos. Basically the hearts from double dash, but covers one hit only.
I think the way the Mega Mushroom is handled in Tour is effectively what a "1up" would be.
@@DesignDoc I didn't know that it came back on Tour. Never played it, but now I'm curious about any other items in that.
Maybe it could be a passive item that can activate when you fall off a cliff, instead of being dragged up by lakitu, you’re instantly teleported back onto the stage and get a speed boost
@@DesignDoc Or the Heart in Tour, which only takes one hit (IIRC).
@@cosmicspacething3474 wait but couldnt you just voluntarily fall off the stage to get the speed boost? I’d much rather have an item that gives you a speed boost if you get hit by another item, but the protection doesn’t last a long time, meaning strategy is actually needed.
It feels like the joke about item Boo and King Boo falls flat when the king always has subordinate Boos around.
There's a pretty significant bit you missed about the Red Shell in Super Circuit! When dropping it behind you it would still lock on to racers and chase them down. The difference is that one you dropped behind would instead target the next person to drive past it rather than whoever was in front of you. Basically, it was a banana that would chase you down even if you avoided it.
Double Dash was my entry into the series - I never owned the console myself, but my best friend did and we spent SO many afternoons just playing Double Dash for hours on end. It may be the memories of it, but to this day, it's still one of my absolute favorite entries in the series.
I had a similar childhood, never owned it but my cousin had it and it was my first in the series too. we would also play it for hours. it has the best look and feels the most mario kart like in the whole series. plus the tracks just felt so unique with all the shortcuts that you could take. even if they werent much help they were still fun to do
Please talk about Tour! Its item system is so interesting and different from the rest of the series, to the frenzies, the change to the mega mushroom, the way item boxes work, and of course the character-specific items
I love how the special moves change when you upgrade them to a higher level
@@moosesues8887 yes! It almost gives the game a progression system, which we’ve never seen before in the series
Like Lego Racers?
And it's the 9th mainline mario kart
I'll never forget Nintendo for not making the Super Horn a Yellow Shell.
Considering in Mario World it gives Yoshi earthquakes and Koopa Troopas invincibility. It could have worked as a defensive item *and* cover all four shell types in World.
Okay but know this: in Mario Kart 8 & Deluxe, pressing the item button (L or ZL) without having an item will make you honk your horn, briefly playing a sound effect related to your character (and making nearby racers hop but that's not important)
When using the Super Horn, you can faintly hear your regular horn sound beneath the main sound effect. Therefore, since using an item and honking your horn share the same button, you could infer that the Super Horn temporarily turns your horn into a deadly weapon, which I find to be a cute detail
Yoshi causing earthquakes every time he hops or lands from a jump, would be my worst nightmare.
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas out of all the 'kart racer invincibility items', Super Horn is much better than a generic bubble shield or something. It's got a charm to it.
I just would have liked to see the whole set. :p
@@DampWetstew :)
29:12 I actually am surprised they completely ditched the POW Block after just one game. The fact that it's reactable and has counterplay makes it much more palatable than lightning, and I had hoped they would somewhat combine them moving forward; such as by giving the lightning a quick start-up animation and/or sound effect that lets you account for it if your reaction time's good enough, for example.
I also wasn't bothered by the Thundercloud that much, because I saw the merit in its risk/reward balance between passing it on to someone else for safety, or keeping it for the speed boost and trying to catch up with someone further ahead at the expense of possibly being shocked yourself.
As for Mario Kart item stories, I have a great one from a few years back in an 8 Deluxe friend lobby. It's Toad Harbour, and I'd been trailing in 2nd all race, but I grab a double item from the last set and pull four red shells. A blue's just gone past, so once the explosion wears off I start firing my reds. But I'm also thinking that I really don't deserve to win off such a powerful last-second item pull, so I stop and turn around at the finish line, timing the last one so it'll hit after she's already passed it and taken first place with me following behind.
What I didn't account for what that she'd see me stopping and turning around, _and slow down herself,_ meaning she doesn't get across the finish line and I barely squeeze in front. And so unless you know that was my intention, anyone watching a clip of that going down would probably think I'm gloating! And by "a clip of that" I mean it, it's at DarlingEndearingFishCmonBruh if anyone wanted to see for themselves :)
Because it's so easy to react to...when you know what to do, all it ends up being is a item dropper.
It resets everyone in the item department.
The risk/reward of thundercloud only exists when other racers are near you... and they have an item and see you coming. This often makes you a free hit or renders you helpless.
While if you get it and there is no one near...
@@SonicmaniaVideosAnd the Lightning does a much better job.
I do kind of like the fake item box because of the fact it doesn't block items. I know that may annoy many people because they can't use it to defend themselves, but I find that creates an interesting dynamic in the games it appears in. It creates a more offensive item for 1st place that you have to use to slow down oncoming players, in addition to preventing 1st place from making as huge of a lead because they can't defend themselves with one, similar to coins in mk8. I don't think 1st place necessarily needs more defensive items, so having an offensive item can at least make things more interesting while in the lead.
I did like that as a differentiator from bananas, but I think that was also why they removed it-because there wasn't a risk calculation of holding onto it defensively vs. using it offensively, people (in my anecdotal experience) are more likely to just toss it to free up the item slot than strategize with it.
@@ZMYaroAnother reason why they removed the Fake Item Box from newer games is that the item has gotten increasingly worse since its debut in 64. From Double Dash onward, it has become increasingly obvious to tell which one is the impostor. The Fake Item Box's intended purpose is to trick the player into thinking it's the real deal. While it does its job well in Mario Kart 64, it fails miserably in all future appearances.
@@greninjamariokartpokemonfan That is somewhat true, though I think that is more a result of item boxes more frequently appearing in neat rows than the design of the fake item box itself.
It really isn't more offensive, you need to place it perfectly where an item box is. Any slight discrepancy and you've gotten an item worse then the coin. This means you lose an item to use it often times.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 compared to bananas it is meant to be used more offensively, having a larger hitbox and higher hitstun at the cost of not being able to defend yourself with it. You don't even need to put it right on an item box, even on its own it serves as an obstacle you need to avoid, although I do wish they would make them look almost identical to regular item boxes like in 64.
The distance-based special item ratio sounds a lot better than previous games. I remember reading someone suggest having a Plunger item that acted as a grappling hook against the racer in front of you, slowing them and catapaulting you past them, or just letting you attach to them for a while like cargo. They also had an idea for something that created several illusionary copies of the user across the track, but that would be hard to balance with modern place-monitoring systems and AI drivers.
I think the illusionary copy item they were referring to is the Double Cherry from Super Mario 3D World. In races, it wouldn’t work as well, but in Battle Mode it would work really well due to how that mode is structured.
One thing to mention: the red shell behaves as a green shell when thrown backwards, it does not home in on the player behind you as some might think
Edit: except Super Circuit
Only exception is super circuit. It does drop on the track but the moment someone passes it. It homes after them. IMO the most broken red shell ever
@@redmagejohn right
@@redmagejohn I would say that but the broken ass redshell in ds that could hit you even when defended is something
Real shame the red shell physics from MK Wii didn't return, breaking the shell by hugging the inner wall of a corner was sick as hell
As someone who wants to make a kart racer (-ish) I adore this discussion on items in racing games. So yes, I'd enjoy a follow with the Mario Karts that don't exist. From what I've seen in the arcade game I played, too many and too superfluous. And admittedly, some of the Tour items are pretty good (only some, I'm looking at you "Super" bombs and banana barrels)
In terms of stories around items in these games, I will always remember the time I outran a blueshell in DS.
Turns out you CAN avoid being hit if you hold onto a mushroom and use it at the last second just as the blue shell starts to come down and hit the track.
Correction: you CAN fire a homing red shell backwards in Super Circuit (kinda). When you place it down, it will remain stationary until another racer drives by, then it will sound off a couple beeps and then head straight for that racer!
I'm certain it's been said by now but in Double Dash Parakoopa juggles but Koopa stacks the shells. Other characters can juggle and stack too, with Mushrooms only, but getting hit makes them drop all but 1 item in their hands. For clarity too, Rainbow Road in Double Dash has a chance for shooting stars to fall on the track before the big launch rainbow, which was seen in the video itself. This usually spawns a star by itself.
With kart racers and items in mind, perhaps Design Doc could do a video comparing how other kart racing games, from the popular Crash Team Racing and Sonic All-Stars Racing to the more niche and obscure ModNation Racers and Diddy Kong Racing, handle their item systems (along with individual items).
I'm so glad to see me and my friends aren't the only idiots that do "blue shells only" rounds. It's so hillarious!
It's interesting how the Fake Item Box (which when abbreviated is "FIB", pretty interesting and something I literally *just* noticed while writing this) slowly went from looking like a legit Item Box to looking like an odd Item Box.
Something I would've done to make the Fake Item Box more useful is make it give items *negative* effects by running into it.
You still lose speed after hitting it, but now the item you have suddenly doesn't work like normal.
Interesting tidbit about Mario Kart 7. Both the Fake Item Box and Mega Mushroom have item IDs mean they were either leftovers from Mario Kart Wii or were actually planned to be in the game.
CTGP-7, a mod for Mario Kart 7, adds back these unused items (on top of adding new courses and playable characters) and makes the Fake Item Box harder to notice by giving it the color scheme of the normal Item Boxes when far away and slowly changes back to the color scheme given in Mario Kart Double Dash/Wii depending on how close you get. Also, Fake Item Boxes can't be seen on the minimap in CTGP-7, making sudden surprises both fun again and also annoying.
Honestly, I do like SRB2Kart's take on the Fake Item Box. At a distance, Eggman Boxes are extremely difficult to tell from real item boxes, as the overall shape and colour are identical. Get close, and you'll notice the tiny circle in the middle is Eggman's face instead of the usual star. But picking it up isn't completely the end of the world - picking it up rigs your kart to explode, but it replaces your currently held item with the detonation switch. It'll explode on its own after about 5 seconds, but you're encouraged to drive towards someone else and detonate it early to catch them in the blast as well.
Dude I'm still looking for that intro music it's so good!
even though it became very situational later on, I actually love the idea behind the feather. A short, super quick bounce into the air to avoid projectiles and do mini-shortcuts. It wouldn't be as broken in 3D mariokart titles, but it feels really fun to use!
In MK64 you can hold the Blue Shell behind you, like a normal shell, but it’s a fantastic shield that doesn’t disappear (I can’t remember what does make it go away). Firing a red shell in 1st will make it go round the entire track in the centre, creating an extra hazard for the racers.
Star would break it, I think lightning too but it's been a long long time since I played MK64.
As someone who's been addicted to Mario Kart as of late, thanks to all of the booster course pass hype for MK8DX, this video came at a perfect time.
I think the reason MK8 Deluxe made it so easy to lose the Blooper Ink is due to fact that it lacks something that previous MK games with the Blooper lacked - a second screen. As you pointed out, for the most part, you can make your way around the course by looking at the mini-map on the second screen, so if the Blooper ink got on the main screen and actually impaired the screen, you just moved your focus to the mini-map on the second screen. Since the Switch doesn't give that option, the Blooper ink can't linger too long without majorly disrupting gameplay.
I honestly find handheld games in general fascinating. From 1989 to 2019, Nintendo basically had to every once in a while take a step back and develop games for a less powerful system than their main one. The results were... quite interesting.
I love the bananas in a conga line in MK64, I love ceashing the line to an opponent and the rest of the bananas spread out in the spot, so satisfying. Bananas were never as cool as in MK64, and NOBODY TALKS ABOUT THEM!
in 8 they should’ve gone the full way with the blooper ink making you slippy, making you take more time to recover from spinning out, it should also just last longer too, that would help it.
It does do exactly this in 8 and Deluxe, reducing your traction and sheering when you're covered in inky black. It's not that obvious at slower speeds, but in 200cc it means you need to hit your brakes a lot more to make it around most corners, and it can make some corners absolutely terrifying.
i miss the super leaf so much!! it was my favorite item in 7, pretty unique but still incredibly useful for avoiding hazards if you can time it right. if there's one item i'd like them to bring back, it's that one!
also, the pow block was kind of fun just to see if you could time the controller shake correctly
I still think the POW block has interesting mechanics, because, even if tricking allows you to keep most of your speed, It locks your trajectory, A POW quake on a sharp turn and you are basically guaranteed to hit a wall or fall, without strategy. That and the removal of the item you were holding, and items are paramount in MK wii.
There is also the Fake item box, a really bad defensive item, since red/green shells just pass through it when you are holding the FIB behind you. But this also makes it an interesting obstacle: A well placed FIB cannot be really countered, even when you have say triple shells out, there is no choice but to avoid it.
Also fun fact, the MK8 piranha plant always tries to eat what's next to it, even other drivers using stars for example, it can also eat a blooper when it tries to attack you. Pretty neat.
The item system is a balancing act between control and chaos. Too much control and things will get boring. Too much chaos and Wii happens. I think Double Dash and 8 hit a fine balance and make the game still fun while having some goofy moments to look back on with a smile.
As for my favourite item? I love the Chain Chomp/Bullet Bill and the Bowser Shell.
It’s great that Deluxe brought back the double item mechanic, but I still miss having an exclusive item for each driver.
As a kid who played a ton of MKDD, I sort of had to make up my own games to keep it replayable, so sometimes I tried to see what different item combos I could end up capturing with the princess hearts. I'd try to get like a Bowser Shell and giant banana or something.
Another reason why I think the fake item boxes have become redundant other than the fact that they obviously look different to normal item boxes is the placement. Throwing a FIB doesn't really make sense because boxes tend to be in a symmetrical line/pattern, and a lonely FIB in a chaotic spot stands out like a sore thumb. If FIBS automatically aligned themselves to an existing box line it would be more believable.
Used to hide RIB inside the actual boxes
What do you think will be the new special feature for Mario Kart 9? Personally, I think giving each character something unique - a passive ability where your miniturbos last longer; or an ultimate ability that activates after reaching 20 coins or so - would be pretty interesting and fun. Maybe pair co-driving comes back from Double Dash or ... the Thunder Cloud...
If it was releasing on the Switch rather than Switch 2 - And I think the booster pass completely puts the kibosh on that possibility - I was thinking they might feel the need to differentiate further than usual, and give us something along the lines of a Kart Racing equivalent of Forza Horizon. Open world, driving between tracks, races that can happen on the open road and just be 'get to Point B by any route you can find' stuff.
With it not doing, probably just leaning a bit harder on what's already present. MK7, MK8, and MK8DX all feel fairly linear progression of each other. It feels like Nintendo's found what they want Mario Kart to settle into being now rather than going Wild with every iteration. Hoping for a bit more in single player - even just the return of mission mode, and maybe some more kart, and possibly character, customization. And the Lucky 7/Crazy 8 is now probably going to be called Cloud 9.
How about continuing the trend of 7 & 8 and add more mode of driving like digging for shortcut as well as driving in the sky with a purple pad switching to a hover kart. Maybe refining the experience a little more after 8. Mission mode, double racers and character specific items can be all back. The coins should cap at 20 rather than 10 and make it easier to lose large amounts of coin, in addition, make each coin worth 1/5 mushroom rather than 1/10. I think maybe super acorn, cloud flower, bomb shell and double cherry. Super Acorn can be used mid air to gain a upward boost or hop out of a glider section, cloud flower create 3 clouds for blocking the racers behind, working more like an obstacle to slow down rather than spinning out, bomb shell is basically a shell that explode upon contact with a racer and double Cherry create a racer clone which absorb item spinning out and also get a new item slot. Bring back the heart, bowser shell and giant banana as character exclusive as well as items such as ice flower, the cannons, mega mushroom and super leaf from tour and past games.
I was so hoping the return of the double item boxes in _8 Deluxe_ was setting up for a return of co-op mode. It would have been so perfect because (if I recall) the Switch can handle up to eight players using single joycons, and of course since there's only room on the TV for four split screens, that means having to play as teams of two. And because "8" is right in the name!
Besides that, I'd actually like to see them double down on the inclusion of non-Marioverse characters, tracks, and even items and rebrand as "Nintendoland Kart" or "Super Smash Racers" or something. With all the extra content we've gotten, Mario Kart as we know it has kind of hit its limit.
@@Stephen-Fox I don't expect full open world, but I could definitely see them doing something with driving between tracks, like Crash Team Racing and Diddy Kong Racing.
24:53 fun fact, I actually did this quite a bit as a kid! My DS had a broken top screen that would randomly turn off, and when it did in the middle of a race, i would finish using the bottom screen only--I got quite good at it haha!
Your docs on mario karts and other racers are extremely helpful and detailed! I'm myself trying my hand at a mk clone game, and those docs have proven to be a strong helping hand. Thanks!
It would be cool to see you guys talk about the evolution of the karts in Mario Kart. Great video!
2:25 - Super Mario Kart
8:55 - Mario Kart 64
14:50 - Mario Kart Super Circuit
17:07 - Mario Kart: Double Dash!
22:11 - Mario Kart DS
26:25 - Mario Kart Wii
31:03 - Mario Kart 7
35:29 - Mario Kart 8/ 8 Deluxe
Here are timestamps if anyone wants to skip to a game.
Thank you very much for making this. I am getting into game design and doing a game jam right now and being able to watch this at 2x speed and find all of the valuable insights to be gained from the item design is a blessing.
I typically play and make pvp based games, but a teammate had a great mechanic worked out so we went with vehicles. Really helping round out my lack of knowledge for kart game items post N64 era.
Cheers!
The first item story that comes to my mind is when we had just gotten Double Dash. My older sisters (and the younger sister's boyfriend at the time) were playing a four player vs, so it was just the four karts on the track (Cheep Cheep Beach or whatever it was called). We were pretty well clustered, but my eldest sister was in fourth place and grabbed a Blue Shell, then immediately pulled into first place as she went to throw it. It looped back around and blew her up, and the rest of us got caught in the shockwave.
I also vaguely remember an incident in Mario Kart 64, where I think I got hit with a green shell on a ramp in Wario Stadium and got blasted backwards to a ways before the ramp. I mainly remember my reaction, which was to shout "hell what the?!"
A few other notes:
The Mushroom is typically not seen as much but a speed booster or shortcut maker, except multiple games with blue/spiny shells allow you to dodge them with a properly timed boost right before it lands, giving people that get to first with a mushroom an extra way out.
The star's speed boost in 8/Deluxe has been significantly reduced, making the item weaker compared to prior iterations but still just as effective at driving over grass or avoiding hits. Also gives you a nice boost to acceleration.
Also in 8/Deluxe, the Blooper reduces traction/turning capability so it actually does something beyond just covering the screen in ink. This isn't too notable on most slower speeds where you'll just turn a little wider, but it can be especially rough at 200CC speeds as it becomes much harder to take corners and requires much more braking to avoid falling off or hitting walls. Finally, Bloopers are mildly threatening.
The Piranha Plant item can lunge even faster by hitting the item button repeatedly while it's active, making it even more terrifying for a shorter speed boost as each chomp takes a bite out of its longevity.
30:34 I love the explosions and how you actually flip in the air instead of roll to the side like in mk8
In Mario Kart Wii, every character gets their own vehicle modifier(s). And they are a big reason for why Funky Kong dominated the competitive scene; he had the highest top speed bonus in the game.
Genuinely love your ad transitions.
Believe it or not, there is *one* practical use to glancing at the bottom screen in MK7: It lets you see when another player uses a Blue Shell, a lot earlier than you would know otherwise. If you're very distantly in first, that's not any help; but if 2nd place is close to you, you can intentionally slow down and let them take the lead - and the Blue Shell's attention.
36:16 the wiiU DOES have the handheld map/items mode! You tap on the map icon on the right.
REALLY OP in battle mode.
Honestly, one of my favourite takes on the "first place killer" item comes from SRB2Kart's Self-Propelled Bomb. As soon as one gets launched, everyone in the race hears a loud alarm, and the bomb starts beelining it towards first place, even going *through* stage obstacles and walls. However, it only ever *matches* the speed of the player in first - meaning if they play perfectly, they can always outrun it. But now the player in first can't slow down under any circumstance, or else the bomb hits them. Making tight turns becomes a lot more difficult when you're unable to tap the brakes, and getting perfect drifts becomes all the more important to get a slight moment of distance between you and the bomb. (But the bomb will be right back on your tail once that boost expires - it gets the speed boost too.)
Though of course, if the player in first somehow manages to slip into second place (without slowing down, mind), then the bomb will change targets, even if it's been going for that player for a while.
Coin is so interesting tbh. I personally think it’s a pretty good item for balance in MK Deluxe while it’s pretty bad in the original 8. Prevents first from getting multiple defense tools, forces them to go double item, but gives +2 coins for speed. But then again, the modern fake item box is so poorly designed imo, it could technically replace the coin. Instead of +2 coins it gives just a pretty weak trap item.
Personally I prefer the coin, since I hope fake item box does get reworked in a future game.
An interesting video idea would be an analysis of those same powerups across different franchises. Every kart racer has a similar staple set of powerups, and even some non-kart ones like Wipeout, Blur and Rollcage/GRIP, and yet they all have their distinctions, like Wipeout giving Missiles low tracking with wall bounces and essentially combining red and green shells as a result.
Wii and double have my favorite item balancing, the sheer chaos is incredible when playing with friends.
The emotional rollercoaster of getting hit by a red shell right before the finish line, but you get launched *just* far enough to still cross it.
really enjoyed seeing this! i loved the mario kart track design video, so it was nice to see a sequel. i think the only point that i didn't agree with was how the one item hard cap system in base 8 impacts the race flow. in my experience, the racer in first will try to minimize the risk of getting a coin as much as possible and just hold onto whatever defensive item they have for as long as possible. while sometimes this creates interesting risk/reward situations (should i use my super horn to take out a red shell or should i just tank the hit in case a blue shell comes down the line?) i think the lack of interaction that comes from first place placing bananas as traps or firing back green shells on blind turns makes a lot of base 8 races feel a bit more bland than they should, considering how good the rest of the game is. i also think the change to distance-based item charts doesn't help either because it takes out some of the planning and item management that comes from learning what items you get in what positions rather than just having to estimate based on where first is.
The way I’d like to see items evolve is to literally have them evolve. Like if you get an item box while already holding an item, it can become a big version. Or if that’s too strong, maybe boxes or gates where you lose coins but can reroll or evolve.
Gives a little reward for saving up and can give some nice double dash throwbacks.
Not even a need to make whole new itens, just make triples to come to be when you catch more boxes while holding the single version of them
In Mario Kart DS the Blue Shell can be dodged by using a drift boost at the right time. This technique is called "Blue Shell Dodge". It is very difficult to do, but I have heard legends of people who could do it consistently.
Same can be done on Double Dash. Requires significant skill to pull it off consistently, but even pulling it once can be rewarding. In fact, you can take red shells as practice.
I'm sorry are we just gonna ignore 22:57 which has the coolest banana snipe I've ever seen in my life
The other day I was wondering what the item suite would look like if the red shell were removed. It's one of the most iconic items, but from a certain design perspective it doesn't seem that great. It doesn't help you go faster, it just slows down another player, and not even the most important player, just the player in front of you. It's selfish, not strategic. If you only care about coming in first, the red shell only really helps you if you're in second. It might even make it harder to reach first if second place has to spend their items covering their back while first place gets further ahead. I don't think I'd mind seeing the Bob-omb or something similar with more interactions move into the red shells position in the game, especially in the back of the pack.
The simplicity of the red shell is part of its strength though. Using the item and then your position moving up by 1 is a good feedback loop. It's the easiest to understand element of item strategy that is really important to the game. The constant threat of getting red shelled is important. You can outmaneuver bombs, bananas, and greens, but you have to spend your items to deal with a red shell or fall behind.
I mean, you're more than capable of testing that out.
All time favorite situation will always be Double Dash on Baby park with giant bananas and bowsers shells. Pure chaos. Hate that the 8 version has a wall in the middle to stop items from crossing over but at least its there with 12 racers.
Same, the entire point of baby park is the high speed chaos, not letting the items cross the median really removes that certain terror of a Bowser Shell coming out of nowhere on you.
They should bring back the banana system from MK64.
If you don't turn too sharply and tap the brake you can fully stop yourself from spinning out. Made placement on corners a bit more important and added a little skill check.
My into to the series was double dash, so when tripple items spun around you and you could hold items behind you again it was like a wild innovation.
well written flow between each point!!
That was surprisingly fascinating !
There's a MKGP cabinet at the Adventuredome in the Circus Circus at Las Vegas. There's also an F-Zero cabinet.
The red shells in super circuit when dropped behind you will stay in place until someone drives past it then it will lock onto them.
in Wii before I learned about Shell Dodging with mushrooms I got to see that cannons made you invincible to Blue shells, this only happened once tho to me on DK Mountain and young me was so happy to have survived the event
i would like to add that in double dash the car you pick matters since baby cars can't hit the big karts and are hit backwards istead if they colide, the big karts are slower but better for driff ,normal karts are better for dashing and double dashing on curves and baby karts are faster but worse on curves, you can also get a boost at the start of the race if you press in the right momentum and a double boost if you switch characters while doing it
the thing about the karts behaving different matters more in the minigames map
the game was very chaotic and i have a lot of funny memoriesfor that, it was the only thing that joined the family in a room so i remember all the stuff 😂
24:58 hi, im the weirdo that did this a lot when i played this game. It honestly gives you a competitive advantage cause you can eyeball all of the other players' items, it also helps with lining up your shots without having to look back and not see where youre going
Double Dash is my favourite MK game and im glad to see from your poll that others feel the same. I was really hoping with the joycons of Switch that we would see Double Dash 2 on Switch, but alas, it was not to be. It definitely needed some more things to do when playing 2 players on 1 cart, but the idea was great and deserves to be expanded to 8 players.
I will say, from a game design point of view, i wasnt a fan of the customised items for each character, as it definitely prioritised certain combos of characters. DK + Baby Mario was my fav as the big banana was great when you were ahead as you would get it often in 1st still, whereas other characters wouldnt get their item in 1st. Then if you dropped back you could get the chain chomp from baby mario to launch you forward to the contenders again... But i dont think you should have to decide which character to use based on which items you hope to get, it's better if people just get to choosr their fav character and not be punished for it.
Bikes are a travesty of an inclusion. Shame on you MK Wii, shame on you.
Mario Kart 64's Green Shell will always be my favorite version of the Green Shell because it will bounce indefinitely until it either hits someone or goes off the track.
Green Shell is also the reason why I prefer the old version of Rainbow Road 64 because it had rails on the entire track and it wouldn't be uncommon to see multiple Green Shells bouncing around as you complete laps.
The funniest moment in Mario Kart 8 was when I found out that you can actually control the bullet bill. I never told my friends, making them curse their bad luck when they constantly got hit by my bullet bill no matter how they evaded.
I understand the frustration with the blooper, but I like the idea of items that do more than various degrees of knocking you out, and there have definitely been moments where, even though I knew a course well enough to drive blind, blooper ink inconveniently hid a well-placed banana.
Also yes please at a breakdown of the wacky array Mario Kart Arcade items!
TBH I'd love you to give the arcade spinoffs & Tour a once-over for their items. Tour especially. The arcade game items are... mostly worthless, honestly, or are just duplicates of existing staple items. Tour's new items are honestly really interesting, and I'd love to see most of them make a return in a console Mario Kart game.
Tour uses the regular/special item distinction that was introduced in Double Dash. The Feather is back in Battle Mode as of last year, and there are 13 regular items are mostly staple items, as well as the Mega Mushroom, returning from Wii. The Star can't be normally gotten, since that's tied to a new mechanic called Frenzy, where you are given the power of a star, an infinite amount of a specific item to use for a short time (albeit usually a nerfed version of that item). I'm not sure of the exact mechanics behind Frenzy, but I think the chances of it happening when you hit an item box is based on distance from 1st place?
The special items are where it gets fun. In terms of returning items... all the triple items are there, of course, as well as double bob-ombs, the fire and boomerang flowers, the Lucky Seven, the Super Leaf, the Bowser Shell, the Giant Banana, the Yoshi/Birdo Eggs, and the Hearts.
But the NEW special items are really interesting. Ice Flowers freeze drivers they hit, but the driver maintains any momentum they had, drifting in that direction until they unfreeze. Bubbles act sort of like a fragile Star that doesn't have the smooshing power of a Mega Mushroom (quickly carrying you forwards for a set amount of time, but popping if you hit anything damaging). Dash Rings put 3 rings in your path to drive through, giving you a speed boost as you drive through each one, but also giving drivers behind you and near you a chance to use them as well. The Giga Bob-omb serves as a Bob-omb that has a larger explosion and (somewhat poorly) homes in on its target. Hammers throw several hammers ahead of you, which either bounce around for awhile until they despawn or hit someone, or hit the driver in front of you. The Super Bell is basically the Golden Shroom equivalent of a Super Horn. Coin Boxes are like Golden Shrooms but for the Coin item, but instead of giving YOU coins, it throws the coins all around you for yourself and racers behind you to collect. Capsules are similar to hammers, but they come in 3's and rotate around your kart before you throw them like Triple Shells or Triple Bananas do. Lastly are the Banana Barrels, the Mushroom Cannon, and the Bob-omb Cannon, which are basically give you cannons on your kart to fire their respective item onto the track in front of you (and yes, the Banana Barrels kind of suck as a result because you often just end up driving into your own bananas).
...I accidentally left this entire post in the comment box for a full day, oops
The lightning could be really punishing in 64, where the dropped speed would make you unable to make certain large jumps. This was bad enough when it just meant waiting for the long fall animation before Lakitu picked you up, but in Wario Stadium (one of, if not the worst track in the game), there was one big jump that, if you failed, would put you on an earlier part of the track and make you lose a ton of time. This was mainly fixed with better track design and Lakitu implementation, but it did make it really annoying when playing GP and wondering if someone would happen to get a lightning bolt right before you went over a jump. Though if you were the one that got to use it to make someone else fall down...
Red Shells in Super Circuit were actually pretty nasty. If you left them behind you, they actually became a smart trap and would chase after the next opponent that passed it. They made for an easy way to stall racers behind you for a bit.
One thing I conceptually like about DS is that "item quality" is an actual stat for karts, reflecting the likelihood of getting better items. Karts with better item stats generally were weaker in actual racing performance, so it made for an interesting tradeoff. That said, I don't know enough about the games mechanically to say how effective it was in practice.
As if Fake Item Boxes weren't bad enough, in Wii they stopped being able to block shells.
I have to say, one of my favorite moments in 8DX was when I saw a blue shell heading towards me, hit an item block, and got a Super Horn right in time to block it. Absolutely perfect moment.
The Fake Item Box can only block items in Mario Kart 64; it can no longer do that as of Mario Kart Double Dash. On the topic of the Fake Item Box in Mario Kart Wii, it's already obvious to tell which one is the impostor due to its red and black color gradient, but they made it larger, making it even more obvious. No wonder the Fake Item Box has been absent from Mario Kart 7 onwards.
Awesome video! Would love for you to cover the "side" Mario Karts too, yeah :D
Also, there was a Wii emulator that specifically allowed you to play Mario Kart GP 1 and 2 on the Wii.
This was really a banger video! And probably the funniest of yours I have seen^^ Long live the King!
Thanks for tiding me over before Mario Kart 10 releases! Hope to see a sequel to this video where you cover Mario Kart 9 for mobile devices!
It’s worth noting in Vanilla MK8 you could very much get combo’d, but at some point in deluxes lifespan around 2018 it was patched and you have WAY more invincibility frames completely removing combos. Also in deluxe you can never get two coins, so if you’re in first and get a coin it’s worth holding onto until the next set of items because you aren’t getting another
I really like how the item system works in Mario Kart Tour! I'd like the next Mario Kart game to keep it, minus the character-specific "Favorite Course" limits.
Character-specific special items and Frenzies need to make a comeback!
My first game was ds, and I got really good at drifting and then using a mushroom to blast around corners, it was my favourite thing to do!
So happy double dash gets the love it deserves. That game is incredible, and the battle mode is unmatched.
I'm going to put this video to my watch later playlist, but I just want to tell you holy hot damn your thumbnail is absolutely amazing.
There's an interesting take on a catch up item in 2RB2Kart, a fan made kart racer based on Sonic. It's a bomb that homes in on first place and follows behind them. However, if first place can keep top speed and not make a single mistake, they can outrun it. It provides a challenge to skilled players, while still working well for those not at that level.
I think the best way to utilize the feather is to make it a limited resource that's not tied to items at all. Like you start a race with three, you can use 'em whenever you want, and maybe you could recharge then by waiting long enough between uses, or by doing enough tricks, or with coins or something. It gives you more potential counterplay to many offensive items, or you could save them for small shortcuts and skips. It gives you multiple options, and lets players express themselves through gameplay.
I'm also big on more items thay require more varied interactions between players, rather than just "it hit or it didn't". I think the POW block is incredibly solid because of how it still undeniably gives a small advantage to the player that used it (by slowly everyone else down), but also allows players being targeted by it to make meaningful decisions about how to deal with it. Can you get into the air in time? If so, is that faster than just taking the straight line that leaves you on the ground? Is your timing good enough to make it so you only spin out and lose momentum, and if you DO land that parry (for lack of a better phrase), will that spin-out animation cause you to hit a wall or something else?
I always love the Mario Kart series, but if you want some very interesting racer games to look at from a design perspective I highly recommend the powerups from the Lego Racers 1 & 2 games. The designs are wildly different from one another, but each bring very unique ideas to the mix that I would love to see in a more mainstream game like Mario Kart.
For 1, you don't get random powerups at all, and this actually works with the Lego theme far better! There are 4 colored "bricks" that you can grab that all spawn in the same place on the map. These give a specific powerup based on the color. The fun part is that throughout the level there are generic white bricks you can also grab. White bricks don't do anything by themselves, but they make colored bricks stronger. So while you are racing you have this constant push and pull between using a powerup immediately while it's weak, or waiting to grab white bricks to make them stronger. It was an awesome way to go about it!
In 2 we see random powerups. A far departure from the origional in a lot of ways but it did bring one very cool functionality to the table: nearly all powerups can be used in two ways. One by just using the powerup as normal, or by holding the powerup button. This again gives a really fun risk/reward system that is very easy to understand. The best example is the drill. You can fire the drill and it just moves forward slowly, wrecking all the cars in its way. Or you can hold the fire button, and you hold on to the drill as it moves forward! So you are attached to the drill! But! If you hold on for too long, the drill explodes and if you are holding on then you get a huge penalty aa you recover. It's a fantastic risk/reward system.
Would love to see the designs of these elements (and some of the others from those games) talked about by more people!
Mario Kart Tour when?!?! 👀
Loved the video btw!! 😊
I've said this for years now but Mario kart 8 has always had the most consistent item balance in the series