Paul Kingsnorth: The Machine and the Christian Way
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Paul Kingsnorth is an English writer who lives in the west of Ireland. He is a former deputy-editor of The Ecologist and a co-founder of the Dark Mountain Project.
Kingsnorth's nonfiction writing tends to address macro themes like environmentalism, globalisation, and the challenges posed to humanity by civilisation-level trends. His fiction tends to be mythological and multi-layered.
Links:
www.paulkingsnorth.net/
• Environmentalism, the ...
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Thank you so much for publishing this talk. You are a speaker my secular nieces will listen to, so I forward your talks to them. I think we can all feel something happening in the world now, like we've come to the end of ourselves somehow, the end of modernity. I like you am a late life convert, and was hunted down by the Holy Spirit. Like you, I wanted nothing to do with Jesus--better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. Just as you say, the story of man is the story of the Garden--our rebellion against our Creator and setting ourselves up as God.
Being quiet for weeks on end in nature during the still of the pandemic, I had intimations of the glory, the Shekinah, of the Lord. This softened my heart, and some weeks later, I had a powerful conversion experience where it was made clear to me who was the creature, and who was the Creator. God is so surprising. I could say more, but it's very hard to write about such things. Just thank you so much for your voice. You really have a gift, and I can tell you that it's invaluable to have something Christian to share with secular folks that somehow, they aren't "allergic" to. You have that gift. Thank you.
AzaAA W wow we see
Dear Paul, I am a retired field ornithologist / conservationist / teacher who worked in the rainforsests of the Lesser Antilles for the WWF in the 1970's -80s. I have an off-grid hermitage on 3 (inherited) acres on the Lancashire/Yorkshire border. My "superpower" is cooking in a cast iron dutch oven atop a wood burner not designed as a cook stove.
You would probably enjoy "Unveiling the Apocalypse" by Emmett O'Regan. He's a theologian who discusses literary forms, apposite history, astronomy, geology, and can correlate some Bible allusions with Late Classical Graco-roman myth when necessary. He's good at pointing out praeterit Biblical types which echo through history and the Apocalypse and which will recognisably "frame" events of the future.
O'Regan is an academic, knowlegable of anthropology, archaeology, as well as approved Catholic prophecy from previous centuries.
He gives useful eschatological treatment of the timelines of the Book of Daniel, the surprising :"Sign of Jonah" which we may expect to see again; the importance of the geology of Mesopotamia and the Euphrates river.
O'Regan gives a detailed exploration of the literary genre of the Book of Enoch, which whilst non-Canonical, the authors of the New Testament and the early church fathers held in some regard.
This book is a valuable resource for "reading the signs of the times" for us, the generation which saw the refounding of Israel in 1948.
He has cross-references and triangulates events relating to the seven seals and the four horsemen of the apocalypse; the identity of the national "Beasts" dominating world events in the end times; and disturbing reminders of the "forgotten" Wars and Christian genocides of the early 20th century not reported in history books; bracketed by eclipses and other "signs in heaven" at the commencement of significant world events correlating with times prophecied in the Apocalypse.
This book is a fascinating interdisciplinary examination of the Apocalypse as a guide for recognising the "signs of the times" unfolding about us in this era of the minor Apostasy.
The simple low-techness of this talk matched Paul's humility which shone through. Thank you
I am thankful for this talk. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your witness. Thank you.
Oh, that DH Lawrence poem!!!! Thank you, Paul. I *will* read it 5 times (at least). This is a wonderful talk. I appreciate you making it available here. Many blessings to you.
timely indeed, this talk arrived, for me.
Thanks, Paul. That was a great talk, very inspirational...! Like you, I'm a late-in-life convert to Christianity (Latin Mass Catholic, in my case...), so I understand your situation. We're the scattered orphans of our ancestral faith. I doubt I'll have a chance to hear you speak in person, or to meet you in person, since we live in the far-off Philippines and you're in Ireland. Anyway, thanks for your good work in spreading the faith and for your good ideas in defeating the tyranny that faces us all.
Best...Davis Hurt, Tagaytay, Philippines
Brilliant and touching. Thank you. God bless!
Thank you for this link from your Substack, Paul. On a completely unrelated note to your talk, here, I do pray that you can connect and talk (in a private way) with Jordan Peterson. Not so we can watch you two bandy about ideas, but I really feel that he needs you and your perspective. Also, many in my small Orthodox parish shudder slightly when I bring up DB Hart. I enjoy his perspective. Thanks again!
Thanks Paul for so much thought provoking ideas, which are in reality not ‘ideas’ but the teachings of Jesus himself and the early Church. I have been a Christian for decades and have rarely if ever heard this preached.
The solution to your dilemma of trying to put it all into practice is pray and obey. At least trying to hear His voice or sense His leading will drive us to deeper prayer.
We either do nothing and live in licence or we try and do everything in our own strength and fall into legalism (or self righteousness) The only option is pray and obey.
I love your honesty and humility.
Anthony Demol
Dear Paul, The St Patrick's Incantation/Prayer has become my morning greeting of the new day of the Creator since you shared it with people in your Substack. I love it so much, it carries such a powerful commitment, strength and trust! It helps me to arise every morning.....with hope!
Wonderful talk, Paul. I will listen to it several times in order to digest it. Thank you for your witness to the truth and your work. I'm a Catholic convert exploring the TLM at the present time. Just ordered a volume containing all of the poems of D. H. Lawrence. Was never exposed to his work until today. Can't wait to dig in!!! Thank you so much!
Beautiful.
Many Christians will be like Alyosha in The Brothers Karamazov, whose beloved elder told him to leave the monastery and go out into the world. All Christians, that is, have vocations but not all vocations are monastic or to the priesthood. Many have the vocation to the married life and the rearing of children. Many have employments in the world that are vocations to varieties of service to "the neighbour." The Table of Duties in Dr. Luther's Small Catechism is a resource organized around this idea.
Amen. Orthodox like Dr Vigen Guroian and Eastern Catholic, Dr Michael Martin make the same point, well! Marriage is one high path to God.
I would argue that being outside the monastery can be even more of a challenge. You are tested all the time. Distractions abound.
Lovely, passionate, deeply felt. Thank you. So pleased you referenced David Bentley Hart’s translation of the New Testament and the lovely confusion over camelos - a rope or an overweight camel. I think the rope is better. Keep churning out the straw, btw.
What a beautiful talk, and thank you so much for sharing and being able to speak to both Christians and those who don't consider themselves to be one (I include my self in the latter category). That doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do, but I am so glad you're able to at this time. Hearing about God in this way feels more urgent than ever. I hope you keep giving similar spiritual talks, perhaps made for all God-loving humans, but from your Orthodox faith. I think these sort of words really can create healing as little or nothing else can these days.
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled."
"gyre" is the term PK is using in the first 30 minutes, in case anyone else needs a confirmation. We had some fun exploring other possibilities and their tangents in the comments section during the live talk too.
Thank you for that. We hope you enjoyed the chat too and thanks for following along!
I would like to say how much I enjoyed the event. It was great to meet Paul and his family after the talk.
Thank you, Gerard. It was good to have you back at Benburb Priory!
Hey Paul, I certainly appreciate what you have to say. You remind me of one of my "top shelf" authors, Wendell Berry. I am looking forward to hearing more.
Wendell Berry is fantastic! The Unsettling of America was seminal for me, even as a non-American and his poems, like the Peace of Wild Things most moving. You may enjoy Paul's talk with Jonathan Pageau as well, Dwayne. He spoke a bit about Berry in that one.
@@MoreChrist Yes I certainly enjoy Berry and he has colored many a sermon I have preached.
@@dwaynemitchell2541 wow, that sounds like my kind of sermon!
@@MoreChrist Appreciate that, but sadly the church where I serve as an elder, most of my sermons and teachings are often met with blank stares or outright rejection. My favorite Wendell quote is "There is not holy and unholy ground, only sacred and desecrated." My favorite books apart from The Peace of Wild Things, are Sex, Economy, Freedom and Community as well as What are People For. This is why I appreciate Paul, we need people like him to take up the mantle and the task.
Thank you Paul. Very helpful to me.
right on brother
do it again?? maybe longer with more workshop orientated interaction, perfectly lovely evening. Armagh is breathtaking. thanks to all involved :)
That'd be great! We hope to bring Paul back for something exciting. It was a pleasure to meet you as well, Diarmuid and I am glad you enjoyed Armagh. Hopefully, we will see you back again too. We have a few events coming up with Inaya Folarin Iman, Fr. Ben Kiely, etc. Maybe something will peak your interest. In Christ, Mark
@@MoreChrist Hi! Is this the guy who organised the evening? I wanted to contact you, do you have an email I can message you at? Thank you for making the evening happen. Brilliant stuff!
@@dbrannick9585 it is indeed, brother. You can email the Priory and they will forward it on to me. TH-cam seems to have deleted my previous attempts at replies. Thank you for your kind words as well!
I read Bentley Hart's "Christ's Rabble" and I get the impression that he is not living the message which he seems to be promoting, as you say, Paul , that you are not living like the Saints you mention. Bentley Hart however does not confess to this. His hand wringing criticism of the modern church is not born from experience, but out of lack of experience. A Patrick or a Cuthbert, I can certainly say, would not be so quick in their condemnation. We need more Saints so that we can know grace better.
Being hunted. Haha :) yeah. So strange. I left my job in the machine for while, then caved and got another, and I've just burnt out. I've been fairly deep into meditation in the Buddhist tradition in the past, and now I'm exploring orthodox Chistianity and reading the gospel and found it's got the same answers (plus it's easier to appreciate the history and provenance of the cultural aspects as they're closer to home than the Eastern religions). The renunciation of the world is such a hard call to follow though. I feel as life progresses I'm being left with fewer alternatives!
I loved this talk, but I am not sure how to reconcile the idea that when God created the world he said it was good. I can understand getting out of the rat race, but I think we were created to enjoy what God has created. To appreciate and be thankful. I am not sure the monastery is for all, but for a time, for those called to it.
I agree. There is a balance here. There's a great book by David Fagerberg which deals with this. He describes the goodness of the world using the term 'mundane theology', taking inspiration from Fr. Schmemann. Who rightly notes that Christ came for the life of the world. It is meant to be transfigured into the new heaven and new earth. (Dr J Richard Midleton and N.T. Wright)
I think Paul knows this, but put the accent on the dark sides of the world (in its fallen sense) because we need that wake up call. Dr Michael Martin, a big fan of Paul's work, writes about similar issues and sees the beauty beyond the ugliness of the fallen world.
I'd say that creation and the rat race are by no means the same thing. The Genesis story tells us that God was satisfied with what He made. We then went on to break it with our pride and desire. The rat race is the manifestation of that brokenness. Escaping from it to, say, the countryside, or a saner job, or even a monastery looks to me more like embracing a saner, more beautiful and more natural version of creation. My experience of monasteries, for example, is that they have a more joyful and deep engagement with creation than most of us in the world, both in their prayer life and in their work life (for example, in animal husbandry, gardening, herbalism and other such practical work.)
@@MoreChrist Thanks so much for your input. I love listening to and discussing these great ideas.
@@Peekay72 Thanks so much for your reply and clarification! I very much look forward to hearing more of your discussions of the most important subject in the universe.
I am sure I am not the only Christian staggered by the lengths that the environmentalists will go to. They aspire to a utopia that they have never seen, in the knowledge that they exist in the material realm. This longing appears to me to be supernatural, it must have an origin. Ne timeas.
Amen to that. Dr William Cavanaugh describes this phenomenon as 'the migration of the holy'. Mostly to the market and the state.
@@MoreChrist This is an intriguing area of enquiry for me, thank you so much for the recommendation. Looks like Dr Cavanaugh has a few talks on TH-cam that I must make time for. Nar laga DIa thu.
The fal is biggest mindfuck.
And the war everyone all the time faces.
“The main point of Christianity was this: that Nature is not our mother: Nature is our sister. We can be proud of her beauty, since we have the same father; but she has no authority over us; we have to admire, but not to imitate. This gives to the typically Christian pleasure in this earth a strange touch of lightness that is almost frivolity. Nature was a solemn mother to the worshipers of Isis and Cybele. Nature was a solemn mother to Wordsworth or to Emerson. But Nature is not solemn to Francis of Assisi or to George Herbert. To St. Francis, Nature is a sister, and even a younger sister: a little, dancing sister, to be laughed at as well as loved.”
GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy.
57:57
If you don't mind me asking why did you decide on accepting a Personal God. A supernatural Creator of the Universe rather than embracing naturalistic religion which says 'God' is within nature? I am thinking of the concept as set out by Ursula Goodenough 'The Sacred Depths of Nature' or earlier by Mordecai Kaplan. Religious Humanism. Given your background in ecology activism I am kind of surprised at what caused you to swerve into Orthodox Christianity rather than the religious naturalism which seems very much more in vogue in the current epoch and the environmental movement.
Did the condemnation of Naturalism by Pope Pius 'syllabus of errors' or the critique of the Irish priest Rev Denis Fahey 'The Kingship of Christ and Organised Naturalism' influence you to rethinking the religious naturalism prevailing in the environmental movement of today?
Hello, and thanks for the question. The short answer is that I didn't 'decide' as such - at least if that implies a kind of rational choice between competing philosophies. It was a spiritual overturning of my world that took me into the church. It was because I believed its claims to be true - very unexpectedly.
For a long time I suppose that 'religious naturalism' was what I cleaved to. But it is without substance or history, I found in the end, and it lends itself to our self-aggrandisement. I haven't read the books you quote but I will look into them - thanks.
In Orthodoxy, God is both transcendant and immanent - outside creation and yet also present in all of it. In other words, we can experience God in nature, as in people, every minute. This makes a good deal of sense to me.
@@Peekay72 How would you recommend getting another environmentalist into Orthodoxy? I myself am someone who is struggling with Orthodox Christian faith yet my partner is quite closed off to it often because she believes its too anthropocentric (she is an environmental humanities major). She has become somewhat more open to it from our conversations however still distant to many parts of it. Your work has helped in convincing her of similarities with Orthodox christianity holding that humans are at fault/prideful - similar to environmentalism, so thankyou for your work so far.
@@chrismather5815 I would suggest taking it slowly. I have found - am still finding - that becoming Christian, and especially Orthodox, involves a complete rewiring of your worldview. The fundamental change is from a secular materialist mindset to a religious/spiritual/transcendant one. In this sense, the transition is about more than trying to convice, for example, a secular-minded environmentlist that Christianity doesn't hate nature. It's more about exposing, slowly, the faults of the materialist worldview. But this can't be a ratioanlist argument either. It's really about exposure. Show people what Orthodoxy does to the individual, and what it teaches and how it is lived well, and it's a start. I always recommend reading 'The Mountain of Silence', a really lovely book on Orthodox spirituality. On 'green' issues, Graham Pardun's new book 'The Sunlilies' is terrific too. Good luck!