As a budding Orthodox Christian and quite adept technologist who was also born into it (only 26) I find the struggle I am having is figuring out how to negotiate my relationship with technology. There is an insight by the secular novelist Frank Herbert in his book series Dune. In the book, though its a far flung future with radically advanced technology, the people have rejected very specific kinds of technology being perhaps most notably artificial intelligence. The insight of Herbert comes in that these fictional people realized that certain technologies fall into a special class in which through their use they allow other men who controlled the technology to by proxy control the user. I cannot help but draw parallels in my mind from this hypothetical future to our current moment. We don't just buy cool gadgets that 'make our lives better', but we buy into systems, ways of interacting and seeing the world, and tools that are all shaped by human/corporate designers. By the huberous of man we have through our technological primacy come to believe that we are birthing a new human centric reality in which the fabric of reality becomes woven through these virtual experiences. As man continues his escapade to 'steal the fire from the gods' we become more and more detached from many of the touch points that have traditionally held the fabric of the human world together. Families units continue to atomize, long standing philosophical and religious traditions get cast aside as old hat for the new ideas of the day, and the wisdom of our forebears is written off as the drivel of the superstitious, ignorant, and unenlightened. While there is a case to be made that a good forest fire can clear out a lot of the old stagnate growth, if prolonged burning is kept up for to long then the new growth will be caught up in the inferno and all that will be left is ash. Perhaps this thought does have traditionalist and ludite-esk tones, but I would not claim that the solution is to burn down the centers of technology and cultural change. I think there is room for both sides of the conversation to come together and together birth a future in which the tradition of the past is honored and prized for it worth, while the inspiration of the progressive is given its time to speak and have its idea refined and integrated into the human experience.
...Says the young person. Thoughts happen at the end of a process. Over think and you'll give yourself post traumatic stress disorder. You'll start ruining your breathing patterns etc.
Very good. I adore Mr Kingsnorth. Our 12 year old daughter has his same viewpoint on most things; thank God. The irony of watching this on TH-cam isn't lost on me. I wish I could've just had you both over for coffee and a chat where I could've listened in person. Maybe some other Thursday.
The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis was the first book that really opened my eyes to some of these themes. I think Paul Kingsnorth has an interesting background to really add to this conversation, and I look forward to hearing more from him.
I thought it was just me (not just returning to Orthodoxy) and some random writings, some mentioned some not. There's a lovely documentary here on Tolkien, in which Christopher Tolkien describes his father's enlarging of "The Machine" (the modern world, in a sense) to the point of being one of the themes of Lord of the Rings (I highly recommend it--this portion is at around 7 minutes, it's here). In short, Tolkien described The Machine as a concept as a means of finding "the wrong solution" and "the attempt to actualize our desires". Coercion to good ends. I've spent the last year chasing every possible writer who even comes near this philosophy of modernity, but only today discovered Mr. Kingsnorth, so I thank you immensely!
Amazing how, as a new Christian, Paul really understands that the battle in the world is ultimately spiritual, not political, social, financial or any other manner of struggle
I’m curious as why it’s common to interpret “deny yourself” as denying some kind of material desire or something necessary for survival. In fact, that interpretation is a very human view of something so critical in the teachings which is clearly spiritual in nature. We know we have a soul (the human soul is the light of God). We know when we’ve been wronged as well. Denying yourself is having compassion on your soul while denying the ego response to karma/lashing out/ defending/revenge/etc. with the understanding that it serves no good purpose . You are able to look past your own ego emotional response and see the bigger picture and pick up your cross/purpose and make a change. You both realize that an action is unjust and accept that there is something to learn for you to reduce the chance of another soul experiencing the same difficult circumstance so you take it on instead. You’ve realized an area you can make a difference for your brothers and sisters and hopefully less souls have to have an injustice happen. No change happens when we are operating at an eye for eye mentality.
I'm a follower of Christ. I don't see the need to join the Orthodox church. I have a relationship with God through Christ. I take in God's Word as often as I can (I fail a lot). I commune with God through prayer. I fellowship with other beievers. What does the Orthodox church have to offer me that God Himself and His Word doesn't? Honest question. On a side not, I recently found P. Kingsnorth and I like what I see so far.
The idea that one is simply a "follower of Christ" and that there is no need to belong to His Body, the Church, is a new idea. Just as Christ had one Body, He has one Body on earth, the Church, which was established by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost; this is the one holy, catholic, and apostolic Orthodox Church. It's the Body that gave you the Holy Scripture (have you ever asked yourself who decided on the canon of Scripture? It was Christ's Body, the Church.) So what does the Church have to offer you? The fullness of the Christian revelation...true communion with Christ in the mystery of the Eucharist, mystical union with Christ in the mystery of Baptism, 2000 years of the gifts and blessings of the Holy Spirit's revelation, and anointing in Chrismation. Quite a bit, actually!
How does Kingnorth think you can separate the spiritual from the political and still expect anything to change? If you want to change the world, though religion or any other way, you are going to have to engage with politics. I'm shocked he'd even entertain such a notion.
I think you are articulating the spiritual delusion of our age. Any real change will only come through spiritual means because our battle is not with flesh and blood, but demonic principalities and powers in high places, the Apostle Paul teaches. When a shift occurs in that plane, then political change can follow. Not the other way round.
The internet certainly has the power to bend and distort reality. Doubly so for the drug of social mis-leadia and the likes of fakebook, which makes every opinion ‘true’ and a god of the individual.
A funny comment. I hope I can remember social mis-leadia. I seem to be loosing the ability to remember stuff now, 2 years into smart technology. In the space of 2 years I've heard so much BS from people, I'm totally sick of them. I've had to retire from listening to them.
Fail like peter cushing in Frankenstein? But peter went on to succeed in star wars. He blew up that planet like it was a toy! Its no wonder his family wouldn't speak to him after that.
No, it's a natural progression from maker of stuff into capitalist. Completely normal earthling behaviour. The numbers dictate the construction of different types of humans. You're not in control of it. It's a reaction to population. Is it supported by the numbers? If yes, they get created. If the numbers don't allow it, you won't be able to change.
Romans 5:13 - "Where there's no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." ~Apostle Paul first century Romans 9:4 - "The ADOPTION into Sonship, the GLORY, the COVENANTS (both Old & New), the giving of the LAW, the WORSHIP and the PROMISES only BELONGED to (ancient) ISRAELITES." ~Apostle Paul first century
📙 FREE eBOOK on the wisdom of modern Orthodox Christian elders:
social.protectingveil.com/freebook1
As a budding Orthodox Christian and quite adept technologist who was also born into it (only 26) I find the struggle I am having is figuring out how to negotiate my relationship with technology.
There is an insight by the secular novelist Frank Herbert in his book series Dune. In the book, though its a far flung future with radically advanced technology, the people have rejected very specific kinds of technology being perhaps most notably artificial intelligence. The insight of Herbert comes in that these fictional people realized that certain technologies fall into a special class in which through their use they allow other men who controlled the technology to by proxy control the user.
I cannot help but draw parallels in my mind from this hypothetical future to our current moment. We don't just buy cool gadgets that 'make our lives better', but we buy into systems, ways of interacting and seeing the world, and tools that are all shaped by human/corporate designers. By the huberous of man we have through our technological primacy come to believe that we are birthing a new human centric reality in which the fabric of reality becomes woven through these virtual experiences.
As man continues his escapade to 'steal the fire from the gods' we become more and more detached from many of the touch points that have traditionally held the fabric of the human world together. Families units continue to atomize, long standing philosophical and religious traditions get cast aside as old hat for the new ideas of the day, and the wisdom of our forebears is written off as the drivel of the superstitious, ignorant, and unenlightened. While there is a case to be made that a good forest fire can clear out a lot of the old stagnate growth, if prolonged burning is kept up for to long then the new growth will be caught up in the inferno and all that will be left is ash.
Perhaps this thought does have traditionalist and ludite-esk tones, but I would not claim that the solution is to burn down the centers of technology and cultural change. I think there is room for both sides of the conversation to come together and together birth a future in which the tradition of the past is honored and prized for it worth, while the inspiration of the progressive is given its time to speak and have its idea refined and integrated into the human experience.
Wonderfully said, interesting parallel you noted with Herbert’s writing.
Reading scriptures as an antidote to forgetfulness, now there is a true and essential thought.
Thanks for this interview...
Glory to God!
Wrong.
...Says the young person.
Thoughts happen at the end of a process.
Over think and you'll give yourself post traumatic stress disorder.
You'll start ruining your breathing patterns etc.
Very good. I adore Mr Kingsnorth. Our 12 year old daughter has his same viewpoint on most things; thank God. The irony of watching this on TH-cam isn't lost on me. I wish I could've just had you both over for coffee and a chat where I could've listened in person. Maybe some other Thursday.
You're a consumer that wants personal consumption.
The Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis was the first book that really opened my eyes to some of these themes. I think Paul Kingsnorth has an interesting background to really add to this conversation, and I look forward to hearing more from him.
He does, indeed...we need this ongoing conversation about the things Lewis discusses in TAoM..
That's a short lived hobby.
I thought it was just me (not just returning to Orthodoxy) and some random writings, some mentioned some not. There's a lovely documentary here on Tolkien, in which Christopher Tolkien describes his father's enlarging of "The Machine" (the modern world, in a sense) to the point of being one of the themes of Lord of the Rings (I highly recommend it--this portion is at around 7 minutes, it's here). In short, Tolkien described The Machine as a concept as a means of finding "the wrong solution" and "the attempt to actualize our desires". Coercion to good ends. I've spent the last year chasing every possible writer who even comes near this philosophy of modernity, but only today discovered Mr. Kingsnorth, so I thank you immensely!
Amen! Thanks for the profound message! God bless!
We're not middle eastern cave people.
I love Orthodoxy and Christ.
Amazing how, as a new Christian, Paul really understands that the battle in the world is ultimately spiritual, not political, social, financial or any other manner of struggle
I really like this guy ...
Thank you ...
You want somebody else to do the thinking for you.
An everlasting subject for discussion. Excellent. Inspiring.
No, the baby boomers will be gone soon and all they changed will quickly be destroyed before their own eyes.
one of the few guys actually saying exactly what I've been thinking for about 40 years.
(Baghavad Gita sorted me out!)
Thank you☦️
It's nice you've spotted me here in the future crowd.
I'll take the thankyou and go away with it.
"More young people wanting to unplug."
Yes.
Free your soul from the technocratic hellscape.
I’m curious as why it’s common to interpret “deny yourself” as denying some kind of material desire or something necessary for survival. In fact, that interpretation is a very human view of something so critical in the teachings which is clearly spiritual in nature. We know we have a soul (the human soul is the light of God). We know when we’ve been wronged as well. Denying yourself is having compassion on your soul while denying the ego response to karma/lashing out/ defending/revenge/etc. with the understanding that it serves no good purpose . You are able to look past your own ego emotional response and see the bigger picture and pick up your cross/purpose and make a change. You both realize that an action is unjust and accept that there is something to learn for you to reduce the chance of another soul experiencing the same difficult circumstance so you take it on instead. You’ve realized an area you can make a difference for your brothers and sisters and hopefully less souls have to have an injustice happen. No change happens when we are operating at an eye for eye mentality.
Contrived mechanics of theology.
I'm a follower of Christ. I don't see the need to join the Orthodox church. I have a relationship with God through Christ. I take in God's Word as often as I can (I fail a lot). I commune with God through prayer. I fellowship with other beievers.
What does the Orthodox church have to offer me that God Himself and His Word doesn't? Honest question. On a side not, I recently found P. Kingsnorth and I like what I see so far.
The idea that one is simply a "follower of Christ" and that there is no need to belong to His Body, the Church, is a new idea. Just as Christ had one Body, He has one Body on earth, the Church, which was established by the Holy Spirit on Pentecost; this is the one holy, catholic, and apostolic Orthodox Church. It's the Body that gave you the Holy Scripture (have you ever asked yourself who decided on the canon of Scripture? It was Christ's Body, the Church.) So what does the Church have to offer you? The fullness of the Christian revelation...true communion with Christ in the mystery of the Eucharist, mystical union with Christ in the mystery of Baptism, 2000 years of the gifts and blessings of the Holy Spirit's revelation, and anointing in Chrismation. Quite a bit, actually!
How does Kingnorth think you can separate the spiritual from the political and still expect anything to change? If you want to change the world, though religion or any other way, you are going to have to engage with politics. I'm shocked he'd even entertain such a notion.
I think you are articulating the spiritual delusion of our age. Any real change will only come through spiritual means because our battle is not with flesh and blood, but demonic principalities and powers in high places, the Apostle Paul teaches. When a shift occurs in that plane, then political change can follow. Not the other way round.
The internet certainly has the power to bend and distort reality. Doubly so for the drug of social mis-leadia and the likes of fakebook, which makes every opinion ‘true’ and a god of the individual.
A funny comment.
I hope I can remember social mis-leadia.
I seem to be loosing the ability to remember stuff now, 2 years into smart technology.
In the space of 2 years I've heard so much BS from people, I'm totally sick of them.
I've had to retire from listening to them.
You see it as the enemy, but your channel names it.
It has to fail, and it will ...
Fail like peter cushing in Frankenstein?
But peter went on to succeed in star wars.
He blew up that planet like it was a toy!
Its no wonder his family wouldn't speak to him after that.
No, it's a natural progression from maker of stuff into capitalist.
Completely normal earthling behaviour.
The numbers dictate the construction of different types of humans.
You're not in control of it.
It's a reaction to population.
Is it supported by the numbers?
If yes, they get created.
If the numbers don't allow it, you won't be able to change.
That is about the most simplistic read of capitalism I have ever heard.
Isn't it time to stop pretending to be ancient Israelites?
My thoughts exactly, we need to return to folkish ways
Romans 5:13 - "Where there's no (Old Covenant) Law, sin is not taken into account." ~Apostle Paul first century
Romans 9:4 - "The ADOPTION into Sonship, the GLORY, the COVENANTS (both Old & New), the giving of the LAW, the WORSHIP and the PROMISES only BELONGED to (ancient) ISRAELITES." ~Apostle Paul first century