Consider also the fact that you can get a slab sawn neck blank off eBay, and assuming it's roughly twice as wide as it is thick (many are) this is what you can do: Rip it down the middle, flip the two halves 90 degrees left and right respectively and glue them back together, possibly with a strip of decorative something-or-other in between. You now effectively have a quarter sawn neck blank.
I have recently gotten back into building having built classical and steel strings for 15 years or so. Made/sold @100 of em. Now focusing on solid bodies (much larger market 😉) Been making the rounds of TH-cam "luthiers" and have found you to be a joy to watch and well balanced in your evaluation of various topics. One of the few true luthiers on here. I agree, quarter sawn is great, but increasingly rare and expensive for some species. Grain structure, straightness, moisture content, gluing/laminations, fretboard grain and species all come into play and need to be taken into account. It's not a one size fits all solution. This is where luthiers and guitar builders are differentiated I think. Any, love ur videos. Keep em coming!
Thanks Ben for another mind boggling video and on a very interesting topic but am I understanding it correctly? Perhaps you can confirm or deny my logic? It does seem logical to me that a solid one piece quarter sawn neck is likely to be slightly stronger in one sense but only when the grain is close to being perpendicular to the front face of the neck, making it stiffer, rather than being parallel to it as in plain sawn which makes it weaker. So the quarter sawn neck is more resistant to the string pull (not really a significant issue with a modern truss rod of course). In a plain sawn neck with a truss rod which balances the string pull then that only leaves lateral side to side movement which is eliminated due to the symmetry of the grain on either side of the neck creating a balanced pull to the left and right providing this grain is nearly parallel to the front face of the neck. A quarter sawn neck would also require a symmetry in order to eliminate unwanted lateral movements. However in a laminated neck with a truss rod balancing the string pull the laminations are cut and glued in such a way that in cross section they are symmetrical (like book matching) so that any side to side any pull or tendency to warp to the left side of the section is counteracted by an equal but opposite pull on the right. In that sense this is a more reliable and consistent design than a quarter sawn or plain sawn one piece neck. Maybe the quarter sawn benefits argument is a throw back to the days before truss rods when every little bit of stiffness that could compensate for the pull of heavy gauge vintage strings was a bonus in avoiding the neck ending up like a telegraph pole. I think you are correct in hinting that the some of the "high end guitar makers" are catering for an element of snobbery as in "Oh dear, a laminated neck? Is that not plywood, like wot my gardeners potting shed is made from?" and lets not go down the twists and turns of the "tone road of neck construction" although I would be interested to hear your views on the acoustic coupling properties of laminated necks. Ha ha. Cheers.
as a bass builder, ive experimented with a new truss rod type that seems to work phenomenally. its a pain in the ass to install but its DEAD SOLID. so i take a piece of 8th inch thick bar stock, 3/4ths wide and the length of the neck slightly extended into the headstock and in one case clear down to the tail end of the body. you drill a hole about every 1.5 inches very near the side and press fit a bunch of 8th inch steel pins. so now it basically has a T cross section if you count the rods. then you drill corresponding holes in some wood sides so it sandwitches around the bar with the pins buried in the wood by about a quarter inch on either side. 24/hr JB weld the neck slabs and clamp. the steel bar is actually exposed in the spine (Which looks cool as hell if you mirror polish it) and its essentially like an I-beam. sand the top and wood-glue the fretboard on and you have a neck with like zero bend or give. once you sand the fretboard perfectly flat even super-heavy strings dont bend it. no adjustment, but also no need for one. ive used this on a 4,5,and 6 string bass thusfar and even with mega-heavy strings nothing budges and i'm talking HEAVY, like a 120 set for drop D heavy. a 125 set is 45 pounds of tension per string (225 pounds total) it cant break the rod out because its anchored into the middle AND JB welded with like a dozen or more pins and the way its designed the tension isnt pulling on the wood with wood under screw-tension to fight back, the strings actually pull on the bar itself and the wood anchors to the bar. there is no hollow thin spot at the headstock for truss rod access, no need for adjustment or Allen-bolts and you can either glue on a thin strip of wood to cover it, paint it black or clear coat it with the neck so you got this badass 8th inch chrome looking spine makes me wonder why we use adjustable truss rods at all. isnt a perfectly straight neck ideal in most cases regardless of tension? who wants a bent neck? plus it may be my mind playing tricks but i mounted the solid brass nut for the headstock directly seated on the steel bar and i swear it has brighter clarity. even an A0 on a 34 inch scale sounds clear as a bell and ive always had problem getting that note. i mean it makes sense, resonant steel bar like a tuning fork with a metal-on metal contact with resonant brass in contact with the strings. i never understood why we still use plastic nuts when the frets are steel or nickel. wouldnt your open strings have less brightness kinda by default?
Hi Ben Another thought regarding quater-sawn wood. Is it essential for making acoustic guitar top/back/sides? I'm considering building a parlour style acoustic guitar (Western Red Cedar Top, Oak back and sides/neck). I was also wondering if there was any particular way you would brace the top/back for a parlour size guitar, as all of the other sources I have are based on a dreadnought style guitar. Thanks
Hello Ben. Could you do an episode about truss rods? How many types are there? And which is better? I'm interested in the subject since I had an issue with a Gibson Les Paul truss rod rattle. Thanks!
Hi Ben! I have a bass guitar with a small chip in the side of the rosewood fretboard on it. Are there any ways to fix this and make it new again? Thanks!
Here's a question for one of the podcasts: How can I shim a bolt on neck then drill the pilot holes? I've bought a replacement neck for an old Squier body I had laying around and I'm building a "partscaster". The problem is that the screw holes aren't already drilled and the neck pocket is quite loose, so the neck moves quite substantially. If the bridge to nut axis is X and the treble to bass axis is Y, the neck pivots from the neck pocket quite a lot on the Y axis. How can I shim it to keep it straight while the holes are drilled? I have basically no specialist tools other than a cordless drill and a dremel pillar drill attachment. Is there any way you can help me out? Thanks!
Hey there. Great video, informative for sure. I have to make a decision about a guitar I'm building right now. In the shop I have a nice slab of maple.and I just got a nice slab of walnut tossed my way as a windfall. Each could make a flat sawn neck blank on their own, but would it be better to slice them up and laminate them for stability, still getting a couple of neck blanks out of the deal? Maybe it comes down to personal preference, however I'm looking to maximize tonal purity but not at the expense of durability. Will I still get sweet tone with a 5 piece walnut /maple lamination?
Do you recommend quarter sawn wood for a fender stratocaster or regular sawn? Im going to order a strat from Fender therefore deciding. My current strat has a regular swan neck and at times depending on the weather the board bends/bows and then gets back into shape. I am wondering if this would happen with a quarter sawn?
Ben, for scale layouts, typically we are given the distance from nut to 12th fret, then 12th to the bridge... Since all the strings are different lengths which string is dead equal to the 12th fret distance? Locating a non-adjustable bridge is critical, and without this little nugget, it's very difficult to do.
there is an intonation compensation calculator somewhere on the internet, there is no string that is placed exactly con the exact scale length. and the formula is mad, it take in consideration string gauge, scale and other stuff.
Hey ben, I have asked a question that remained unanswered so far so I will ask it again here, hoping that you will fall on it! Last week you talked about how to drill a straight hole, my question is related to that tip: How do you drill a clean angled hole? i.e. truss rod access, bridge ferrules, and such... I re-watched the clarity build series and that very step is nicely omitted... ;) Thanks. C-bomb
The neck is generally the only part that could be quarter saw and it not really a stipulation, it just helps with structural stability as the grain is all very uniform and going in the same direction. Most bodies are slab sawn
Yes, we use rift sawn wood on occasion, but we also always use carbon fiber stiffening rods in our necks.. A rift, or slab sawn, neck is weaker than a quarter sawn one but there are always ways around them.. B
Uniformity and tightness of the grain and an appropriate wood species that has been properly handled. Then add Quarter sawn wood because those are generally taken from better grade logs as well. So use all those items in that order for best guitar neck
Blonde virgins as lumberjacks is essential to me :-) The way wood lives with humidity changes is the circles of grain want to straighten. So on a one piece neck this puts more stress on the fretboard and it's gluing on slab sawn wood, quarter sawn just slightly changes it's profile. This might be a factor worth considering on some woods.
Ok, so question for you. How did you get over the fear of the first cut and are there situation today where you freeze before grinding away a chunk of wood. For example someone sends you a very nice and expensive guitar and tells you to cut a chunk off. Would you pause? Would you ever refuse to modify a guitar for a silly request.
Matthew Hattersley with most repairs I don't have a problem just diving in.. at least once I have decided on the best course of action. There is nothing quite so gratifying as seeing a clients face when I am drilling a new hole in their multi-thousand pound instrument :) I do however sometimes have anxiety about some custom builds, it sometimes takes me a while to get up the guts to start some of the bigger projects, writers block of sorts I suppose?
Can you do more episodes over bass guitar construction? Like when is it really necessary to use two truss rods in a neck, or does the placement of the tuners effect the playability?
Hi Ben, When building a guitar, what woods should you be wary of when cutting or working with? I.e what woods can release toxic dust or unpleasant chemicals? Thanks Jack
On a xylophone, do long pieces of wood/metal sound higher than short ones ? They don't. The more dimensions of resonating are big (longer, larger and/or thickness), the more it will produce bass notes. In wood the most vibrating matter is hard tree rings, you can see it as several xylophone notes linked together with a softer matter. If the wood is flat sawn, hard tree rings are targer than if quarter sawn, so if you got two pieces of wood with exact same dimensions but one being flat sawn and the other quarter sawn, the quarter will sound a bit higher. This will be obvious with big pieces of wood, but a neck is big enough to hear it. Does it have an important impact on tone ? It may have one influencing string's vibrations, but is it very important, enough to be heard... certainly not as much as the ration of hard tree rings vs early wood.
Give us some advice on veneering solid body guitars, or even headstocks. I recently had a terrible experience (or three) trying to veneer a Flying V kit I bought on ebay as a first guitar build project.
Hey Ben, Question: I'm building a neck out of Zebra wood and flame maple. I see everyone making their laminate neck, perpendicular to the fret board. Id like to run my layers, parallel to the fret board. As far as i can tell no one has done this(after 10 mins of google searching) is there any reason why?
Don't know if you've found an answer since posting this but if not, here goes. Parallel joins mean that any movement in the neck, due either to nonhomogeneous pieces of wood or because of grain patterns, is going to affect the length of the neck. Extension or contraction of the width of the neck is only going to affect whether the frets stick out or don't cover the full width of the fretboard. However, extension or contraction of the length of the neck is going to make it untunable, as frets will be too near to or far from the bridge. So too will the nut. You want to do anything you can to ensure stability along the length of the neck and, if there is going to be movement, it must only be lateral.
Other reason : laminates (and tree rings) perpendicular to the fretboard confer to the neck a mechanical resistance to pressure in this direction. Horizontal laminates (and tree rings) will confer resistance to lateral pressure. String tension and hand pressure of the guitarist are acting perpendicularly to the fretboard. Laminating horizontally to the fretboard would make a wimpy neck.
I set out to build a custom multi laminate neck for an upright bass...i called all over the country to find a quartersawn slab of maple. I pretty much found out you cant get it...was told that all or at least most of the sawmills were under contract with instrument and/or furniture makers and the good stuff (quartersawn, good grade) was spoken for...guess we'll see if slab cut will hold up on an upright bass...
Hi Ben, love the podcasts and I'm current making my way through them all. I have a question; I'm planning a build for a through neck guitar and I've got some nice sapele mahogany. I intend to have a natural finish to the back of the neck, as it's an open pore wood do I still have to use a filler or is it better to oil? You may have done it already, but advice on wood types (including pros & cons) would be very welcomed. Ps I've just joined the guild
Okay, here's question: Set-neck vs bolt-on: which is more durable for acoustic over electric guitars? Is one better than the other in specific applications?
At this stage I would have to say that Taylor have proven that it makes no difference either way.. a well made guitar is a well made guitar whatever the construction technique chosen by the luthier.. B
You must not have found my question, or perhaps it is not relavent enough for this podcast BUT...what is the single greatest guitar you have ever put your hands on, and what was it about that guitar that made it so great?
I've picked up lumber a few times now that are flat sawn thinking they're ok, latest being a sapele 2 piece body but maaaan that thing won't stop moving
As far as I have learned quartersawn wood has inherently better long term stability, but properly glued together multi laminate wood such as the work you do still has more than enough long term stability for the life of the instrument anyways. In the end it doesn't matter so much because of the quality craftsmanship you put into the instruments as well as the tools you sell. Love the work that you do, I hope someday I can get off my behind and try to build my own.
Sort of seems like it's not worth it and that you should instead opt for wood with better tonal qualities, and if it's a tie between quartersawn and something else, that's when to get the quartersawn piece.
Hi! Great Channel!, Great Podcast! What are your thoughts on Birdseye necks? I love the look, and try to buy up Guitars with these specialty necks when ever possible. How often are these neck an issue?
Did you ever get in touch with Abbe ,who I bought the Wenge from? He told me the proper pronunciation when I met him. I'd always called it "wenje " before that as well. He is back in Africa now,and running his exporting business from there,rather than here in England
Ben... loving your videos... especially the guitar building tips series. I was hoping you might take my question for one of your upcoming episodes. Been playing since I was 10 (41 now) and over years I've gotten into doing mods and some light repair work and learning more and more about building. I think I'm ready to start on my first electric build. I know you've done a video on using oak in a build, although I've not yet watched it. What "non-traditional" woods would make for great guitar building? "Non-traditional" meaning those woods not normally used in guitar construction. For instance, I saw a website for a custom builder in Las Vegas that used cherry wood in a build. Although he lamented the fact that he could not sell it, the player that did end up buying it (years later) absolutely gushed over the tone and feel of the instrument. A lot of mass producers seem to be stuck on certain woods... maple, ash, mahogany, bass wood, etc. I'm sure cost, availability, CITES restrictions, etc come into play for deciding to use these various species. So if cost and availability were not obstacles, what "non-traditional" woods would you use or recommend to the hobby builder?
Question: how unsafe is it to be filing, rasping, grinding, sanding, ... wood without a dusk mask. How harmful is the wood dust if you're working in your home (apartment). Question: If I buy wood in a lumber-supply, do I need to let it dry first. If yes, how do I best do this inside a home that has central heating.
+Simon de rycke Wooddust can be pretty darn harmful. Tiny bits of wood getting in your lungs...do the math. Exotic woods can be worse. They can be poisonous and even trained people underestimate it. Some glues and finishing stuff can really harm your lungs, eyes, and also your nose. Ben has already paid for some stuff in his youth. A became allergic to some stuff and there are some videos where he tells to avoid his mistakes while he's coughing. Cutting a small piece handsaw isn't a problem (except exotic stuff) nor is working with chisels etc. Everything what produces bigger pieces is less problematic. But think about your eyes. Especially with Metals. Do you know how to get a piece of metal out of your eye? They Burn it out of your eyeball! Thats how its done in the hospital. I love those pimp my ride episodes...lying underneath the car using a powertool overhead but instead of using the savety glasses on his forehead, he just squinches his eyes together * facepalm*...while GLASFIBRE-Dust is falling in his face. Just buy: closed ear protection, safety glasses than close off your eye section (like ski glasses) not those crappy 5$ stuff. Wear gloves while using exotic wood and while handling glues of all sorts. NOT the shitty gloves that are used for dish washing when you hands are fucked up! Some that are normed! Some who will protect your hands from the shit that is in certain glues, epoxy-resins and all that crap. A year ago i worked with a special sealent and i was bored waiting for someone and read the safety sheet while there was nothing else around after i used it for a few weeks. I always used to hold my breath while applying it because of the way it smelled (if you try that, try it like a chemist! Don't hold it to your nose, wave the fumes in your direction.) Later i read that parts of it can dissolve your lungtissue and you should always wear precisely mentioned level of protection. Not to mention to get that shit in your eyes by mistake! If you have to work directly after you apply something nasty, wear to pairs of gloves. You get rid of the upper pair and work with the remaining one. For the wood drying at home: watch?v=xA81Ko0qZgg But try different videos too!
Here's a question for you: I've got a beginner guitar, costs around 130£ new, basswood body, bolt on neck, you get the vibe The question is: how do I replace that horrible plastic nut? And what do I replace it with? (I'm considering TUSQ) My problem with it, is that open strings have an uncomfortably bright sound to them
Is it a 'simple' task (I use the word simple loosely, we're building guitars here) to go about building your own truss rod? I've seen plans for them and they don't seem as complex as I thought, but I wouldn't even know where to start on that task or you should just start selling some. Pretty tired of my only options being buy from Stew Mac or buy from China.
keegan connor I built a single action one out of threaded rod and a furniture style round nut. Guitar Build - Part 5 - Truss Rod. I just adjusted the guitar for it's first setup last week... The rod has a ton of pull and works really well. I was surprised. I think there's about $5 in pieces and parts and it took very little time to make.
That's pretty impressive, I may need to gather up some parts and give it a shot, although with my luck and a single action I would end up putting the damn thing in backwards or something. Hell the parts alone though would cost me less than shipping from most places it seems
There's not really a backwards to it. Just bury it like any other rod. It's pretty rare to need to adjust for back bow (at least in the guitars I've dealt with), so not much risk involved. Good luck man!
" willing to learn" are the wisest words that lead to better understanding. It must be difficult for you as I know every individual instrument can have a unique character.
The length of a part of matter will affect tone. The shorter it is, the higher tone will be. That's a very basic you'll observe working with any xylophone. What resonate the most in the wood are the dense tree rings. With a quarter sawn you got a lot of these tree rings but the mass of each is way smaller than the mass od rings in a flat sawn. So the overall taping sound is higher. BUT The less you got early wood, the more density of hard rings you'll deal with, and so the more you'll get a bright instrument supporting high notes. If you want a violin you should take this kind of wood, if you want to make a cello you should prefer a wood with less hard rings and more early wood because it will warm up the vibrations cuting of a bit the high ends and favorise the bass tones. That's a classical luthier's rule proved by centuries of practices. So... take a flat sawn with very dense hard rings, compare it to a quarter sawn with few hard rings and a lot of early wood, and even if the "note" you get taping them is higher with the quarter sawn, the flat sawn will be way more efficient when it comes to transmit high end vibrations. Taping a wood and listening to the note can be a clue, but looking how dense hard rings are is way more informative.
Surely more important is the moisture content of the wood. Gibson et al use properly seasoned wood, with the correct moisture content. Otherwise having wood with a good straight grain and no knots should be fine. Cutting and turning the slab to counteract any tendency to twist would also help. I would have thought that plain, non figured wood, would also have less of a tendency to do odd things. Whatever the case though when you cut wood it will move, even if it is quarter sawn. Some people clamp their neck blanks to a solid flat surface for days to ensure the neck black moves as little as possible before starting to shape it.
Have to agree. Getting quarter sawn from a local woodshop or sawmill in next to impossible, better to just laminate the neck and you get the same stability.
it's more about long term stability with quarter sawn not so much strength. also, moister content is big. you start working on a wood before it is dried it will cup, bow and crack like no other.
Quartersawn is stiffer. Flat sawn is more flexible. Depends how you measure strength. Flat sawn will flex more load before it snaps. Quartersawn will usually resonate at higher frequencies than flat sawn because of its Stiffness.
@@shelo0828As far as stability, I would say a quartersawn neck is less affected by temperature change and doesn't require a whole lot of truss rod adjustment. Tone and what is better is subjective to the individual. You can get straight grain and great tone out of a rift or flat sawn neck. I will say a two piece laminate neck pops off a lot more than a one piece with a walnut plug though.
Not wishing to rip your head of, if you were to buy a piece of back or flat sawn timber that is atleast 65-70mm thick could you not simply turn it on its side and presto chango you have qtr sawn, granted it wouldnt be perfectly qtr sawn but, thats what maton here in aus do
Stiffness and strength are a function of the modulus of elasticity (a material property) and moment of inertia (a geometric property). Grain orientation affects neither. The advantage of quarter sawn lumber is dimensional stability: if the lumber isn't properly seasoned, quarter sawn (or perfectly flat sawn for that matter) lumber will have a lesser tendency to twist as it shrinks.
Offer your local school guitar lessons or something in return for use of their laser cutter. just get your CRB/police check thingy, or whatever it is called nowadays and be charmingly cheeky. What you gotta lose?
Ben, youre looking tired mate. take the weekend off and get some rest! As for quarter sawn wood, i think it was historic from acoustic building because its more stable and most old acoustic necks didnt use truss rods. If youre that worried, cut your wood into 3 long peices, turn the middle one around and glue them back together, you now have a multi laminate with grain reversed strength so it *SHOULD* prevent it from twisting it. ...and yes, i knew it was called "when-ghey" but you go to a wood yard and ask for when ghey! you get some funny looks. its like asking for deck varnish when youre from new zealand! th-cam.com/video/hkmeoYKYctw/w-d-xo.html
I leave your head on, but look at this video: the chicks are kind of a running gag.. th-cam.com/video/dEbhvHCZyfM/w-d-xo.html It tells a lot about wood and what happened during the growing process...I found it quite helpful. I think its still hard to tell, how much twisted is the tree? How was it dryed? Depending on the sort of wood, a fast drying process in a chamber can fuck with it...like haveing a core with a lot damper as measured on the outside. I'd really like to talk to some woodman/forest ranger who studied it in detail. Or someone from a museum restoring old furniture and other wood objects...* drool *
The fact that Fender has used flatsawn maple on their production guitars since 1950 and not had to change should be the end of the story. Yes, it is a fact that the quartersawn face will shrink across that surface half as much as flatsawn. You're still talking maybe a couple of thousands of an inch. Maybe you're just better than Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Gilmore, Van Halen, . . . . and require quartersawn to produce your art.
WELL PRONOUNCED!!! Wenge - very good sir!! Thank you so much!! (lol) And to those who say otherwise, well here it is again... www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wenge
Anyone with half s Brain Cell? Would trust your word as Gospel. For Christ Sake. "You Made The Best Guitars for Everyone. But the Most Impressive Reason for me is? You Made Robert Fripp a Guitar or two. That's God im my world. 😁❤💕
so hobby learning anything works but for ascetic high end custom quater sawn, here ill mess you up more why would you bother with quarter sawn when there is rift sawn 😂
Wenge? For me, never, but I'll certainly let others live their own lives... Bah dum tshh Yeah, I know, hideous joke...I shouldn't have quit my day job :O
Consider also the fact that you can get a slab sawn neck blank off eBay, and assuming it's roughly twice as wide as it is thick (many are) this is what you can do: Rip it down the middle, flip the two halves 90 degrees left and right respectively and glue them back together, possibly with a strip of decorative something-or-other in between. You now effectively have a quarter sawn neck blank.
I have recently gotten back into building having built classical and steel strings for 15 years or so. Made/sold @100 of em. Now focusing on solid bodies (much larger market 😉) Been making the rounds of TH-cam "luthiers" and have found you to be a joy to watch and well balanced in your evaluation of various topics. One of the few true luthiers on here.
I agree, quarter sawn is great, but increasingly rare and expensive for some species. Grain structure, straightness, moisture content, gluing/laminations, fretboard grain and species all come into play and need to be taken into account. It's not a one size fits all solution. This is where luthiers and guitar builders are differentiated I think.
Any, love ur videos. Keep em coming!
Wait... Crimson Guitars doesn't have blonde virgins hand-cutting their wood by the light of a waning moon? I just unsubscribed.
Jesse Cole no, they use a saw instead...
Can you do a video talking about how to scallop a fretboard, and the pros and cons of doing so.?
Thanks Ben for another mind boggling video and on a very interesting topic but am I understanding it correctly? Perhaps you can confirm or deny my logic? It does seem logical to me that a solid one piece quarter sawn neck is likely to be slightly stronger in one sense but only when the grain is close to being perpendicular to the front face of the neck, making it stiffer, rather than being parallel to it as in plain sawn which makes it weaker. So the quarter sawn neck is more resistant to the string pull (not really a significant issue with a modern truss rod of course).
In a plain sawn neck with a truss rod which balances the string pull then that only leaves lateral side to side movement which is eliminated due to the symmetry of the grain on either side of the neck creating a balanced pull to the left and right providing this grain is nearly parallel to the front face of the neck. A quarter sawn neck would also require a symmetry in order to eliminate unwanted lateral movements.
However in a laminated neck with a truss rod balancing the string pull the laminations are cut and glued in such a way that in cross section they are symmetrical (like book matching) so that any side to side any pull or tendency to warp to the left side of the section is counteracted by an equal but opposite pull on the right. In that sense this is a more reliable and consistent design than a quarter sawn or plain sawn one piece neck.
Maybe the quarter sawn benefits argument is a throw back to the days before truss rods when every little bit of stiffness that could compensate for the pull of heavy gauge vintage strings was a bonus in avoiding the neck ending up like a telegraph pole.
I think you are correct in hinting that the some of the "high end guitar makers" are catering for an element of snobbery as in "Oh dear, a laminated neck? Is that not plywood, like wot my gardeners potting shed is made from?" and lets not go down the twists and turns of the "tone road of neck construction" although I would be interested to hear your views on the acoustic coupling properties of laminated necks. Ha ha. Cheers.
great info, I've got some African mahogany supposedly rift cut but the grain is straight 90°. This video answered all my questions, thanks!
as a bass builder, ive experimented with a new truss rod type that seems to work phenomenally. its a pain in the ass to install but its DEAD SOLID. so i take a piece of 8th inch thick bar stock, 3/4ths wide and the length of the neck slightly extended into the headstock and in one case clear down to the tail end of the body. you drill a hole about every 1.5 inches very near the side and press fit a bunch of 8th inch steel pins. so now it basically has a T cross section if you count the rods. then you drill corresponding holes in some wood sides so it sandwitches around the bar with the pins buried in the wood by about a quarter inch on either side. 24/hr JB weld the neck slabs and clamp. the steel bar is actually exposed in the spine (Which looks cool as hell if you mirror polish it) and its essentially like an I-beam. sand the top and wood-glue the fretboard on and you have a neck with like zero bend or give. once you sand the fretboard perfectly flat even super-heavy strings dont bend it. no adjustment, but also no need for one. ive used this on a 4,5,and 6 string bass thusfar and even with mega-heavy strings nothing budges and i'm talking HEAVY, like a 120 set for drop D heavy. a 125 set is 45 pounds of tension per string (225 pounds total) it cant break the rod out because its anchored into the middle AND JB welded with like a dozen or more pins and the way its designed the tension isnt pulling on the wood with wood under screw-tension to fight back, the strings actually pull on the bar itself and the wood anchors to the bar. there is no hollow thin spot at the headstock for truss rod access, no need for adjustment or Allen-bolts and you can either glue on a thin strip of wood to cover it, paint it black or clear coat it with the neck so you got this badass 8th inch chrome looking spine makes me wonder why we use adjustable truss rods at all. isnt a perfectly straight neck ideal in most cases regardless of tension? who wants a bent neck? plus it may be my mind playing tricks but i mounted the solid brass nut for the headstock directly seated on the steel bar and i swear it has brighter clarity. even an A0 on a 34 inch scale sounds clear as a bell and ive always had problem getting that note. i mean it makes sense, resonant steel bar like a tuning fork with a metal-on metal contact with resonant brass in contact with the strings. i never understood why we still use plastic nuts when the frets are steel or nickel. wouldnt your open strings have less brightness kinda by default?
Hi Ben
Another thought regarding quater-sawn wood. Is it essential for making acoustic guitar top/back/sides? I'm considering building a parlour style acoustic guitar (Western Red Cedar Top, Oak back and sides/neck). I was also wondering if there was any particular way you would brace the top/back for a parlour size guitar, as all of the other sources I have are based on a dreadnought style guitar.
Thanks
You wouldn't use quarter-sawn wood for top/back/sides. In fact, as Ben says here, it's not really necessary for the neck wood.
Hello Ben. Could you do an episode about truss rods? How many types are there? And which is better? I'm interested in the subject since I had an issue with a Gibson Les Paul truss rod rattle.
Thanks!
Hi Ben! I have a bass guitar with a small chip in the side of the rosewood fretboard on it. Are there any ways to fix this and make it new again? Thanks!
Here's a question for one of the podcasts:
How can I shim a bolt on neck then drill the pilot holes? I've bought a replacement neck for an old Squier body I had laying around and I'm building a "partscaster".
The problem is that the screw holes aren't already drilled and the neck pocket is quite loose, so the neck moves quite substantially.
If the bridge to nut axis is X and the treble to bass axis is Y, the neck pivots from the neck pocket quite a lot on the Y axis. How can I shim it to keep it straight while the holes are drilled? I have basically no specialist tools other than a cordless drill and a dremel pillar drill attachment. Is there any way you can help me out?
Thanks!
Hey there. Great video, informative for sure. I have to make a decision about a guitar I'm building right now. In the shop I have a nice slab of maple.and I just got a nice slab of walnut tossed my way as a windfall. Each could make a flat sawn neck blank on their own, but would it be better to slice them up and laminate them for stability, still getting a couple of neck blanks out of the deal? Maybe it comes down to personal preference, however I'm looking to maximize tonal purity but not at the expense of durability. Will I still get sweet tone with a 5 piece walnut /maple lamination?
Can you tell how is the best way to level frets on a compound radius fretboard in order to keep perfect the radius of each fret? Thanks
Do you recommend quarter sawn wood for a fender stratocaster or regular sawn? Im going to order a strat from Fender therefore deciding. My current strat has a regular swan neck and at times depending on the weather the board bends/bows and then gets back into shape. I am wondering if this would happen with a quarter sawn?
Ben, for scale layouts, typically we are given the distance from nut to 12th fret, then 12th to the bridge... Since all the strings are different lengths which string is dead equal to the 12th fret distance? Locating a non-adjustable bridge is critical, and without this little nugget, it's very difficult to do.
there is an intonation compensation calculator somewhere on the internet, there is no string that is placed exactly con the exact scale length.
and the formula is mad, it take in consideration string gauge, scale and other stuff.
Perfect!!! I'll check into it. Thanks.
Hey ben,
I have asked a question that remained unanswered so far so I will ask it again here, hoping that you will fall on it!
Last week you talked about how to drill a straight hole, my question is related to that tip:
How do you drill a clean angled hole? i.e. truss rod access, bridge ferrules, and such...
I re-watched the clarity build series and that very step is nicely omitted... ;)
Thanks. C-bomb
What about for guitar top and bottom and sides is quarter sawn required?
The neck is generally the only part that could be quarter saw and it not really a stipulation, it just helps with structural stability as the grain is all very uniform and going in the same direction. Most bodies are slab sawn
Can you make a radius gage that can can be used to shape a fretboard?
Do you ever use Rift sawn maple wood for necks?
Yes, we use rift sawn wood on occasion, but we also always use carbon fiber stiffening rods in our necks.. A rift, or slab sawn, neck is weaker than a quarter sawn one but there are always ways around them.. B
Uniformity and tightness of the grain and an appropriate wood species that has been properly handled. Then add Quarter sawn wood because those are generally taken from better grade logs as well. So use all those items in that order for best guitar neck
Blonde virgins as lumberjacks is essential to me :-) The way wood lives with humidity changes is the circles of grain want to straighten. So on a one piece neck this puts more stress on the fretboard and it's gluing on slab sawn wood, quarter sawn just slightly changes it's profile. This might be a factor worth considering on some woods.
Do Gibson use quarter sawn mahogany necks?
Ok, so question for you. How did you get over the fear of the first cut and are there situation today where you freeze before grinding away a chunk of wood. For example someone sends you a very nice and expensive guitar and tells you to cut a chunk off. Would you pause? Would you ever refuse to modify a guitar for a silly request.
Matthew Hattersley with most repairs I don't have a problem just diving in.. at least once I have decided on the best course of action. There is nothing quite so gratifying as seeing a clients face when I am drilling a new hole in their multi-thousand pound instrument :)
I do however sometimes have anxiety about some custom builds, it sometimes takes me a while to get up the guts to start some of the bigger projects, writers block of sorts I suppose?
Crimson Custom Guitars k
Can you do more episodes over bass guitar construction? Like when is it really necessary to use two truss rods in a neck, or does the placement of the tuners effect the playability?
Hi Ben,
When building a guitar, what woods should you be wary of when cutting or working with? I.e what woods can release toxic dust or unpleasant chemicals?
Thanks
Jack
walnut dust is a very harsh thing to inhale! Don't do it!
Skip to 1:40 to actually get to question/answer
John Rose BTW, great video. Love all your videos.
what is your opinion regarding possible tone differences in one piece maple bolt on necks, quartersawn vs flatsawn?
On a xylophone, do long pieces of wood/metal sound higher than short ones ?
They don't. The more dimensions of resonating are big (longer, larger and/or thickness), the more it will produce bass notes.
In wood the most vibrating matter is hard tree rings, you can see it as several xylophone notes linked together with a softer matter. If the wood is flat sawn, hard tree rings are targer than if quarter sawn, so if you got two pieces of wood with exact same dimensions but one being flat sawn and the other quarter sawn, the quarter will sound a bit higher. This will be obvious with big pieces of wood, but a neck is big enough to hear it.
Does it have an important impact on tone ?
It may have one influencing string's vibrations, but is it very important, enough to be heard... certainly not as much as the ration of hard tree rings vs early wood.
Love the waning moon joke.... because of moon spruce.
Give us some advice on veneering solid body guitars, or even headstocks. I recently had a terrible experience (or three) trying to veneer a Flying V kit I bought on ebay as a first guitar build project.
Hey Ben, Question: I'm building a neck out of Zebra wood and flame maple. I see everyone making their laminate neck, perpendicular to the fret board. Id like to run my layers, parallel to the fret board. As far as i can tell no one has done this(after 10 mins of google searching) is there any reason why?
Don't know if you've found an answer since posting this but if not, here goes. Parallel joins mean that any movement in the neck, due either to nonhomogeneous pieces of wood or because of grain patterns, is going to affect the length of the neck. Extension or contraction of the width of the neck is only going to affect whether the frets stick out or don't cover the full width of the fretboard. However, extension or contraction of the length of the neck is going to make it untunable, as frets will be too near to or far from the bridge. So too will the nut. You want to do anything you can to ensure stability along the length of the neck and, if there is going to be movement, it must only be lateral.
Other reason : laminates (and tree rings) perpendicular to the fretboard confer to the neck a mechanical resistance to pressure in this direction. Horizontal laminates (and tree rings) will confer resistance to lateral pressure.
String tension and hand pressure of the guitarist are acting perpendicularly to the fretboard. Laminating horizontally to the fretboard would make a wimpy neck.
I set out to build a custom multi laminate neck for an upright bass...i called all over the country to find a quartersawn slab of maple. I pretty much found out you cant get it...was told that all or at least most of the sawmills were under contract with instrument and/or furniture makers and the good stuff (quartersawn, good grade) was spoken for...guess we'll see if slab cut will hold up on an upright bass...
When you laminate flat sawn lumber you have turned the grain 90 degrees and now effectively have quarter sawn. You did the right thing.
HPC laser in Halifax sell some amazing value laser cutters. I used one at my last job and it cost about £3000, if maintained properly they work great!
Hi Ben,
love the podcasts and I'm current making my way through them all. I have a question; I'm planning a build for a through neck guitar and I've got some nice sapele mahogany. I intend to have a natural finish to the back of the neck, as it's an open pore wood do I still have to use a filler or is it better to oil?
You may have done it already, but advice on wood types (including pros & cons) would be very welcomed.
Ps I've just joined the guild
Okay, here's question: Set-neck vs bolt-on: which is more durable for acoustic over electric guitars? Is one better than the other in specific applications?
At this stage I would have to say that Taylor have proven that it makes no difference either way.. a well made guitar is a well made guitar whatever the construction technique chosen by the luthier.. B
@@CrimsonCustomGuitars Just so. Thank you for the prompt response!
You must not have found my question, or perhaps it is not relavent enough for this podcast BUT...what is the single greatest guitar you have ever put your hands on, and what was it about that guitar that made it so great?
I've picked up lumber a few times now that are flat sawn thinking they're ok, latest being a sapele 2 piece body but maaaan that thing won't stop moving
As far as I have learned quartersawn wood has inherently better long term stability, but properly glued together multi laminate wood such as the work you do still has more than enough long term stability for the life of the instrument anyways. In the end it doesn't matter so much because of the quality craftsmanship you put into the instruments as well as the tools you sell. Love the work that you do, I hope someday I can get off my behind and try to build my own.
Sort of seems like it's not worth it and that you should instead opt for wood with better tonal qualities, and if it's a tie between quartersawn and something else, that's when to get the quartersawn piece.
Hi! Great Channel!, Great Podcast! What are your thoughts on Birdseye necks? I love the look, and try to buy up Guitars with these specialty necks when ever possible. How often are these neck an issue?
Did you ever get in touch with Abbe ,who I bought the Wenge from?
He told me the proper pronunciation when I met him.
I'd always called it "wenje " before that as well.
He is back in Africa now,and running his exporting business from there,rather than here in England
Ben... loving your videos... especially the guitar building tips series. I was hoping you might take my question for one of your upcoming episodes.
Been playing since I was 10 (41 now) and over years I've gotten into doing mods and some light repair work and learning more and more about building. I think I'm ready to start on my first electric build.
I know you've done a video on using oak in a build, although I've not yet watched it. What "non-traditional" woods would make for great guitar building? "Non-traditional" meaning those woods not normally used in guitar construction.
For instance, I saw a website for a custom builder in Las Vegas that used cherry wood in a build. Although he lamented the fact that he could not sell it, the player that did end up buying it (years later) absolutely gushed over the tone and feel of the instrument.
A lot of mass producers seem to be stuck on certain woods... maple, ash, mahogany, bass wood, etc. I'm sure cost, availability, CITES restrictions, etc come into play for deciding to use these various species.
So if cost and availability were not obstacles, what "non-traditional" woods would you use or recommend to the hobby builder?
Question: how unsafe is it to be filing, rasping, grinding, sanding, ... wood without a dusk mask. How harmful is the wood dust if you're working in your home (apartment).
Question: If I buy wood in a lumber-supply, do I need to let it dry first. If yes, how do I best do this inside a home that has central heating.
+Simon de rycke
Wooddust can be pretty darn harmful. Tiny bits of wood getting in your lungs...do the math. Exotic woods can be worse. They can be poisonous and even trained people underestimate it. Some glues and finishing stuff can really harm your lungs, eyes, and also your nose. Ben has already paid for some stuff in his youth. A became allergic to some stuff and there are some videos where he tells to avoid his mistakes while he's coughing.
Cutting a small piece handsaw isn't a problem (except exotic stuff) nor is working with chisels etc. Everything what produces bigger pieces is less problematic. But think about your eyes. Especially with Metals. Do you know how to get a piece of metal out of your eye? They Burn it out of your eyeball! Thats how its done in the hospital.
I love those pimp my ride episodes...lying underneath the car using a powertool overhead but instead of using the savety glasses on his forehead, he just squinches his eyes together * facepalm*...while GLASFIBRE-Dust is falling in his face.
Just buy: closed ear protection, safety glasses than close off your eye section (like ski glasses) not those crappy 5$ stuff. Wear gloves while using exotic wood and while handling glues of all sorts. NOT the shitty gloves that are used for dish washing when you hands are fucked up! Some that are normed! Some who will protect your hands from the shit that is in certain glues, epoxy-resins and all that crap.
A year ago i worked with a special sealent and i was bored waiting for someone and read the safety sheet while there was nothing else around after i used it for a few weeks. I always used to hold my breath while applying it because of the way it smelled (if you try that, try it like a chemist! Don't hold it to your nose, wave the fumes in your direction.) Later i read that parts of it can dissolve your lungtissue and you should always wear precisely mentioned level of protection. Not to mention to get that shit in your eyes by mistake!
If you have to work directly after you apply something nasty, wear to pairs of gloves. You get rid of the upper pair and work with the remaining one.
For the wood drying at home: watch?v=xA81Ko0qZgg
But try different videos too!
Here's a question for you:
I've got a beginner guitar, costs around 130£ new, basswood body, bolt on neck, you get the vibe
The question is: how do I replace that horrible plastic nut? And what do I replace it with? (I'm considering TUSQ)
My problem with it, is that open strings have an uncomfortably bright sound to them
I have a rift sawn one piece neck on my Chibson les paul.
Love your vids, I really am saving up to buy one of your axes ( that's what we call them in the states). Luthier-on!!!!
Is it a 'simple' task (I use the word simple loosely, we're building guitars here) to go about building your own truss rod? I've seen plans for them and they don't seem as complex as I thought, but I wouldn't even know where to start on that task or you should just start selling some. Pretty tired of my only options being buy from Stew Mac or buy from China.
keegan connor I built a single action one out of threaded rod and a furniture style round nut. Guitar Build - Part 5 - Truss Rod. I just adjusted the guitar for it's first setup last week... The rod has a ton of pull and works really well. I was surprised. I think there's about $5 in pieces and parts and it took very little time to make.
That's pretty impressive, I may need to gather up some parts and give it a shot, although with my luck and a single action I would end up putting the damn thing in backwards or something. Hell the parts alone though would cost me less than shipping from most places it seems
There's not really a backwards to it. Just bury it like any other rod. It's pretty rare to need to adjust for back bow (at least in the guitars I've dealt with), so not much risk involved. Good luck man!
" willing to learn" are the wisest words that lead to better understanding. It must be difficult for you as I know every individual instrument can have a unique character.
hey ben are you related to martin crowe the cricket player?
The celebrated Les Pauls and Fender guitars of yore (50s & 60s) were made with whatever sawn necks. Those turned out alright.
Very informative
Fletcher guitars showed a neat trick to turn any wood into quarter sawn wood
What about tone wise quarter sawn brighter than flat sawn.
The length of a part of matter will affect tone. The shorter it is, the higher tone will be. That's a very basic you'll observe working with any xylophone.
What resonate the most in the wood are the dense tree rings. With a quarter sawn you got a lot of these tree rings but the mass of each is way smaller than the mass od rings in a flat sawn. So the overall taping sound is higher.
BUT
The less you got early wood, the more density of hard rings you'll deal with, and so the more you'll get a bright instrument supporting high notes. If you want a violin you should take this kind of wood, if you want to make a cello you should prefer a wood with less hard rings and more early wood because it will warm up the vibrations cuting of a bit the high ends and favorise the bass tones. That's a classical luthier's rule proved by centuries of practices.
So... take a flat sawn with very dense hard rings, compare it to a quarter sawn with few hard rings and a lot of early wood, and even if the "note" you get taping them is higher with the quarter sawn, the flat sawn will be way more efficient when it comes to transmit high end vibrations.
Taping a wood and listening to the note can be a clue, but looking how dense hard rings are is way more informative.
Surely more important is the moisture content of the wood. Gibson et al use properly seasoned wood, with the correct moisture content. Otherwise having wood with a good straight grain and no knots should be fine. Cutting and turning the slab to counteract any tendency to twist would also help. I would have thought that plain, non figured wood, would also have less of a tendency to do odd things. Whatever the case though when you cut wood it will move, even if it is quarter sawn. Some people clamp their neck blanks to a solid flat surface for days to ensure the neck black moves as little as possible before starting to shape it.
epic analogy
Have to agree. Getting quarter sawn from a local woodshop or sawmill in next to impossible, better to just laminate the neck and you get the same stability.
Loved your little mahogany analogy there ben!
it's more about long term stability with quarter sawn not so much strength. also, moister content is big. you start working on a wood before it is dried it will cup, bow and crack like no other.
who does your hair
MinWax
Your mom
thank you again Ben
Mic battery's gone. Interesting vid, mind. Thanks, Ben.
I hate to bring up 'tone' *dun dum durrrrrr* but the 'tone' on the video audio had a lot of echo and sounded a little weird. Back to the old mic?
It sounds like he was using the on-camera mic instead of the lav. There must have been a problem with the lav audio they found after recording.
Quartersawn is stiffer. Flat sawn is more flexible. Depends how you measure strength. Flat sawn will flex more load before it snaps.
Quartersawn will usually resonate at higher frequencies than flat sawn because of its Stiffness.
You are right, because of stiffness it has more resonate resulting better sustain and tone in a guitar
@@shelo0828 more sustained. Brighter tone.
@@smokepeddler one question, is there any better than quarter sawn cut neck for guitars? In terms of resonant and sustain?
@@shelo0828As far as stability, I would say a quartersawn neck is less affected by temperature change and doesn't require a whole lot of truss rod adjustment. Tone and what is better is subjective to the individual.
You can get straight grain and great tone out of a rift or flat sawn neck.
I will say a two piece laminate neck pops off a lot more than a one piece with a walnut plug though.
as always very interesting Ben.
you dont just pick quartersawn wood, you pick the ones that have more growth rings. tehy are denser and will be less prone to warping.
Nice hairstyle, Len Goodman!
Not wishing to rip your head of, if you were to buy a piece of back or flat sawn timber that is atleast 65-70mm thick could you not simply turn it on its side and presto chango you have qtr sawn, granted it wouldnt be perfectly qtr sawn but, thats what maton here in aus do
My question is "What's up with all the background noise"?
Stiffness and strength are a function of the modulus of elasticity (a material property) and moment of inertia (a geometric property). Grain orientation affects neither. The advantage of quarter sawn lumber is dimensional stability: if the lumber isn't properly seasoned, quarter sawn (or perfectly flat sawn for that matter) lumber will have a lesser tendency to twist as it shrinks.
Sorry Ben. Wenge is only prononounced 'Wen-gee" under a waning moon.
Offer your local school guitar lessons or something in return for use of their laser cutter. just get your CRB/police check thingy, or whatever it is called nowadays and be charmingly cheeky. What you gotta lose?
Ben, youre looking tired mate. take the weekend off and get some rest!
As for quarter sawn wood, i think it was historic from acoustic building because its more stable and most old acoustic necks didnt use truss rods. If youre that worried, cut your wood into 3 long peices, turn the middle one around and glue them back together, you now have a multi laminate with grain reversed strength so it *SHOULD* prevent it from twisting it.
...and yes, i knew it was called "when-ghey" but you go to a wood yard and ask for when ghey! you get some funny looks. its like asking for deck varnish when youre from new zealand!
th-cam.com/video/hkmeoYKYctw/w-d-xo.html
I leave your head on, but look at this video:
the chicks are kind of a running gag..
th-cam.com/video/dEbhvHCZyfM/w-d-xo.html
It tells a lot about wood and what happened during the growing process...I found it quite helpful.
I think its still hard to tell, how much twisted is the tree? How was it dryed? Depending on the sort of wood, a fast drying process in a chamber can fuck with it...like haveing a core with a lot damper as measured on the outside. I'd really like to talk to some woodman/forest ranger who studied it in detail. Or someone from a museum restoring old furniture and other wood objects...* drool *
can't keep my eyes off the creepy skull tat's
Sounds like a ping pong game going on
The fact that Fender has used flatsawn maple on their production guitars since 1950 and not had to change should be the end of the story. Yes, it is a fact that the quartersawn face will shrink across that surface half as much as flatsawn. You're still talking maybe a couple of thousands of an inch. Maybe you're just better than Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Gilmore, Van Halen, . . . . and require quartersawn to produce your art.
WELL PRONOUNCED!!! Wenge - very good sir!! Thank you so much!! (lol)
And to those who say otherwise, well here it is again...
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/wenge
Anyone with half s Brain Cell? Would trust your word as Gospel. For Christ Sake. "You Made The Best Guitars for Everyone. But the Most Impressive Reason for me is? You Made Robert Fripp a Guitar or two. That's God im my world. 😁❤💕
im gonna be stubborn and say "i pronounce it wenge and always will! For my granpappy ol' reliable told me so"
A waxing moon is better! Lol
so hobby learning anything works but for ascetic high end custom quater sawn, here ill mess you up more why would you bother with quarter sawn when there is rift sawn 😂
Wenge? For me, never, but I'll certainly let others live their own lives...
Bah dum tshh
Yeah, I know, hideous joke...I shouldn't have quit my day job :O
Hearing this posh accent come out of such a biker looking dude is so funny.