I think you've got it wrong. You should use some thicker gauge strings on shorter scale instrument in order to get similar tension, not the other way around.
Speaking of multi-scale lengths and it's effects have you worked with fanned frets much? A lot of experiments have been conducted with them but don't see all that many people using them.
I'm planning on making my first attempt at making a guitar from scratch in the near future, what do you guys think about Mahogany with a central piece of Wenge veneer through neck, Padouk body wings and a carved Bubinga top, Tesla AH-1 Pickups, Gotoh wrap around bridge, locking tuners and a metal nut (possibly aluminium) Any feedback would be great, thanks
Derp Derpington I have this planned but have to wait for a suitable guitar. Basically though I use rasps and then sand paper and remove about 1 to 2mm per fret. It reduces the mass of the neck and therefore incereases sustain etc but may lower the stability of the neck from a tuning point of view.
Something you don't consider usually is the possition of your hand when you are hitting the string. It defines the sound a lot more than say LP to Strat scale. It's the pickups single coil vs humbucker. Actually it's the opposite that can be said in general. Shorter scale means distribution shifted to the higher pitch overtones. Stiffer strings result also in higher pitched timbre. Of course, it's the interaction between string gauge/ tension /scale length ...
the observation I made is that the scalelength probably doesn't affect the sound directly but the resulting choice of string thickness and the tension does. thicker strings usually result in a slightly warmer, thicker sound. And higher tension result in a tighter sound. I prefer 10-46 on 25.5" scale length for E Standard tuning. I like the slightly higher tension compared to the "standard" 9s people put on, let's say, Strats.
Great info! Regarding long scale being tighter, I've noticed if you palm mute a lot of metal, Les Paul scale and the bridge pickup position/distance from the bridge results in a much less squirrelly skanky sound if you did the same thing on a hardtail strat or superstrat with the same pickup screwed/mounted in the wood. So from that aspect the shorter scale is tighter. The bridge also has a lot to do with that but IMO the bridge and pickup location is key because a PRS humbucker tends to chug a lot more cultured (aka bland) even with a similar bridge and pickup as the Les Paul. I don't think PRS with a longer scale sounds tighter and snappier than Les Pauls for chugging because the pickup location adds the LP balls and swagger and I think short length helps project better for mutes. IMO the position/distance of the bridge pickup to the bridge is where a lot of people mix up the tonal difference between scale lengths from a metal palm mute standpoint. So the "long scale is tighter" does apply for most but not when it comes to palm muting in my experience. In a perfect world I'd love to have the fantastic fretjob/fit of a PRS, with the scale and pickup position of a Les Paul without the sticky goop of the PRS finish. I owned a McCarty and some other PRS style guitars and could never get the tight percussive/projecting chugs compared to my Les Pauls and Electras.
Hello Ben.....I love the youtube channel. I am thinking of building a neck-through telecaster but I wanted your thoughts on if it would have enough thickness left for strenght anfer routing the pickup cavities etc?.....Also I have seen you talk about break angle with yout LP style builds....does a tele style guitar require a break angle since the bridge is lower etc? Thanks, mark
I'm wondering how the scale length affects the intonation, or the tunability. I believe a looser string, the result of a shorter scale, will produce less inharmonicity from the string, and produce better intonation. I'd be interested to hear info on this, if someone out there wants to comment-
I actually have some insight on this as well. In reference to string gauge. I play 8 string. 10s-74s. And i recently say that strandberg is making their own compensated tension string sets. My guitar is a headless 27 inch scale guitar with a wenge neck. To give a rough idea of what it already sounds like. as an experiment, i recorded my F# string with the 74 on it. Sounded fine, decent low end response and fairly good deffinition. Then slapped on an 85 (what strandberg offers on their new string set) and the tonal difference is quite shocking. The 74 sounds good. Like an 8 string though sound. But the 85, with the added tension, added a fullness to the sound and it sustained for longer. While keeping the same deffinition, if not slightly improving it. It was a very interesting thing. Next i want to try a super short scale 8 string with super thick strings and see what that does. Probably something obnoxious like a 20 inch scale. For travel purpose
I really hope this gets answered. An acoustic classical guitar has a very wide neck, i.e. fretboard, with an equally wide neck radius. A dreadnaught has a slimmer neck and radius and with the innovation of electric guitars, we found a much slimmer neck and radius still, making the play easier (subjectively) and faster (subjectively). With a bass guitar, you have a longer neck thus increasing the scale length combined with a wider fretboard and neck radius. Q1.) Does the radius of the neck affect the tone of an instrument, or perhaps what is the correlation between neck length, aka scale length, and neck radius? Pre-Q2.) With a baritone guitar, you have a longer neck and scale length thus producing deeper tones with a similar string tension. Q2.) With a baritone guitar neck, how might a tight or slimmer neck radius perhaps 10" or even 9.5" radius through the top 2/3rds of the neck/fretboard with an increasing taper (perhaps increasing to 12" radius or wider similar to a bass guitar) moving down the neck to the neck seat where the neck and body are jointed -- how would this affect scale lenght and tone as well as playability?
Wolf Lahti Somewhere, someone has come up with how certain light wavelengths will absorb certain audio frequencies and create high frequency dead spots. The impact, while completely undetectable by human ears, will be the source of a really bad thesis in a science or music class at a junior college...
Hello Ben, I have a question that hopefully you can address in a future episode. I own a 1996 Custom Shop Fender Stratocaster (54 reissue).. It's absolutely beautiful and I love it. the only problem I have is that it was coated in a very thick lacquer which tends to get "sticky" while I play which leads to trouble sliding up and down the neck... I was wondering if sanding the neck would help, also would you also sand the lacquer off the fretboard? What's the best way to go about doing this if you do recommend it. Someone skilled in this area will be doing the work for me, not myself. Thanks for your time Ben, best wishes!
Sand the back of the neck, yes. I've done that on a couple of my gloss-finished guitar necks and I love the new smooth feel. My fingers slide easily up and down......Sanding a Strat fingerboard? If it's Maple, don't. The wood is porous and will soak up moisture and swell and crack. Rosewood fingerboard? Shouldn't have lacquer on it in the first place, so sand away. Again, Maple? No.
Thank you for answering that question. This confirms my thoughts on the subject and how one might manipulate the sound of a guitar by more than just choices of strings, pickups and wood types. 😎🙃😃
This explains a helluva lot! I wondered why Gibson Les Paul guitars come in 21 or 22 frets and I couldn't find any 24 frets. This is probably a "duh" question but I assume you can make 25.5 inch Gibson Les Paul if you wanted with 24 frets?
Just some info for you Ben for you consideration, in my experience things are a bit opposite. For the past few years I've played mostly Fender Jaguars. They are one of the brightest guitars out there, and their scale length is 24". You mention using smaller gauge strings to improve the sound and the tension on shorter scales, but you actually want to bump it up a gauge or two. On my Fender and Gibson scaled instruments I usually play standard 10's. On my Jaguars, I have 11's on there. In my experience with Jaguars, Mustangs and the other shortscale Fender Offsets, the shorter the scale length the plinkier the sound, not the warmer. Obviously many factors in play with that, but for an idea of similarly built guitars with two scale lengths, check out a Jazzmaster (25.5") vs a Jaguar (24") comparison.
Have to agree with Shepherd & Crow: heavier strings on shorter scales. I make electric tenor guitars w/ a 23" scale length (584.2mm). To achieve a DGBE tuning with comfortable string tension, I use the 5-4-3-2 ( A-D-G-B) strings from a set of electric 10's ( .036, .026, .017, .013). Seems that the person wanting to make a 20" scale electric guitar would need to use extra heavy gauge strings to accomplish a Spanish tuning (E to e).
Neck thru does sound "tableado" (like the sound of 2x4 stacking together) and is the number one "twang killer" if you like the strat and tele sound don't get a neck trough.
Scale length does not affect you tone, your hand placement does. It's all he says she says. Picking closer to bridge give brighter sound while picking away from it produces warmer tone. In short scale length your hand moves away from the bridge because it can't change it's size(for biological reasons) with the change in scale length. Thus giving you warmer sound.
There are ukelele's and guitarlele's with good tone. Also we have travel guitars and parlor guitars with good definition... The Taylor mini and the Gretch are good examples. I would recommend to maybe use a capo and try different strings to see how it plays. Shorter scale and more strings maybe... th-cam.com/video/hv98Sd01di4/w-d-xo.html Nice sounding eletric and better looking mandolin
I think you've got it wrong. You should use some thicker gauge strings on shorter scale instrument in order to get similar tension, not the other way around.
MrMakowy I hadn't given any thought to his second question until the actual podcast and got it completetly backwards, my bad :(
Wrong indeed. I like 19 inch shortscales and string them with 013 jazz or drop-down strings. Normal tuning, great tone.
Speaking of multi-scale lengths and it's effects have you worked with fanned frets much? A lot of experiments have been conducted with them but don't see all that many people using them.
Been looking everywhere for this info!
thoughts on guitar-kits? good starting point or pointless crap?
Are you originally from South Africa?
I'm planning on making my first attempt at making a guitar from scratch in the near future, what do you guys think about Mahogany with a central piece of Wenge veneer through neck, Padouk body wings and a carved Bubinga top, Tesla AH-1 Pickups, Gotoh wrap around bridge, locking tuners and a metal nut (possibly aluminium)
Any feedback would be great, thanks
Can you do a video talking about how to scallop a fretboard, and the pros and cons of doing so.
Derp Derpington I have this planned but have to wait for a suitable guitar. Basically though I use rasps and then sand paper and remove about 1 to 2mm per fret. It reduces the mass of the neck and therefore incereases sustain etc but may lower the stability of the neck from a tuning point of view.
So if I use a tele neck on a jazzmaster body,. Should I use a floating tunomatic 1 1/2 back? That's what I just tried
Something you don't consider usually is the possition of your hand when you are hitting the string. It defines the sound a lot more than say LP to Strat scale. It's the pickups single coil vs humbucker. Actually it's the opposite that can be said in general. Shorter scale means distribution shifted to the higher pitch overtones. Stiffer strings result also in higher pitched timbre. Of course, it's the interaction between string gauge/ tension /scale length ...
the observation I made is that the scalelength probably doesn't affect the sound directly but the resulting choice of string thickness and the tension does. thicker strings usually result in a slightly warmer, thicker sound. And higher tension result in a tighter sound. I prefer 10-46 on 25.5" scale length for E Standard tuning. I like the slightly higher tension compared to the "standard" 9s people put on, let's say, Strats.
Great info! Regarding long scale being tighter, I've noticed if you palm mute a lot of metal, Les Paul scale and the bridge pickup position/distance from the bridge results in a much less squirrelly skanky sound if you did the same thing on a hardtail strat or superstrat with the same pickup screwed/mounted in the wood. So from that aspect the shorter scale is tighter. The bridge also has a lot to do with that but IMO the bridge and pickup location is key because a PRS humbucker tends to chug a lot more cultured (aka bland) even with a similar bridge and pickup as the Les Paul. I don't think PRS with a longer scale sounds tighter and snappier than Les Pauls for chugging because the pickup location adds the LP balls and swagger and I think short length helps project better for mutes. IMO the position/distance of the bridge pickup to the bridge is where a lot of people mix up the tonal difference between scale lengths from a metal palm mute standpoint. So the "long scale is tighter" does apply for most but not when it comes to palm muting in my experience. In a perfect world I'd love to have the fantastic fretjob/fit of a PRS, with the scale and pickup position of a Les Paul without the sticky goop of the PRS finish. I owned a McCarty and some other PRS style guitars and could never get the tight percussive/projecting chugs compared to my Les Pauls and Electras.
Hello Ben.....I love the youtube channel. I am thinking of building a neck-through telecaster but I wanted your thoughts on if it would have enough thickness left for strenght anfer routing the pickup cavities etc?.....Also I have seen you talk about break angle with yout LP style builds....does a tele style guitar require a break angle since the bridge is lower etc?
Thanks,
mark
I'm wondering how the scale length affects the intonation, or the tunability. I believe a looser string, the result of a shorter scale, will produce less inharmonicity from the string, and produce better intonation. I'd be interested to hear info on this, if someone out there wants to comment-
I actually have some insight on this as well. In reference to string gauge. I play 8 string. 10s-74s. And i recently say that strandberg is making their own compensated tension string sets. My guitar is a headless 27 inch scale guitar with a wenge neck. To give a rough idea of what it already sounds like. as an experiment, i recorded my F# string with the 74 on it. Sounded fine, decent low end response and fairly good deffinition. Then slapped on an 85 (what strandberg offers on their new string set) and the tonal difference is quite shocking. The 74 sounds good. Like an 8 string though sound. But the 85, with the added tension, added a fullness to the sound and it sustained for longer. While keeping the same deffinition, if not slightly improving it. It was a very interesting thing. Next i want to try a super short scale 8 string with super thick strings and see what that does. Probably something obnoxious like a 20 inch scale. For travel purpose
I really hope this gets answered.
An acoustic classical guitar has a very wide neck, i.e. fretboard, with an equally wide neck radius. A dreadnaught has a slimmer neck and radius and with the innovation of electric guitars, we found a much slimmer neck and radius still, making the play easier (subjectively) and faster (subjectively).
With a bass guitar, you have a longer neck thus increasing the scale length combined with a wider fretboard and neck radius.
Q1.) Does the radius of the neck affect the tone of an instrument, or perhaps what is the correlation between neck length, aka scale length, and neck radius?
Pre-Q2.) With a baritone guitar, you have a longer neck and scale length thus producing deeper tones with a similar string tension.
Q2.) With a baritone guitar neck, how might a tight or slimmer neck radius perhaps 10" or even 9.5" radius through the top 2/3rds of the neck/fretboard with an increasing taper (perhaps increasing to 12" radius or wider similar to a bass guitar) moving down the neck to the neck seat where the neck and body are jointed -- how would this affect scale lenght and tone as well as playability?
Oh good, seems I've gone out of my way to break every single guitar making rule for my second build...yay learning!
Welcome to the club.. this is how luthiers are born. Find the line and cross it as many times as you want until you come up with your own rules! B
Is there any aspect of a solidbody guitar that can be changed but have zero affect on the sound quality?
KainzMusic good question! I will think and podcast about this soon..
Color?
Wolf Lahti
Somewhere, someone has come up with how certain light wavelengths will absorb certain audio frequencies and create high frequency dead spots. The impact, while completely undetectable by human ears, will be the source of a really bad thesis in a science or music class at a junior college...
The most important is the tone logo. You can change anything providing you keep the logos, the guitar will sound the same.
Hello Ben,
I have a question that hopefully you can address in a future episode. I own a 1996 Custom Shop Fender Stratocaster (54 reissue).. It's absolutely beautiful and I love it. the only problem I have is that it was coated in a very thick lacquer which tends to get "sticky" while I play which leads to trouble sliding up and down the neck... I was wondering if sanding the neck would help, also would you also sand the lacquer off the fretboard? What's the best way to go about doing this if you do recommend it. Someone skilled in this area will be doing the work for me, not myself.
Thanks for your time Ben, best wishes!
Sand the back of the neck, yes. I've done that on a couple of my gloss-finished guitar necks and I love the new smooth feel. My fingers slide easily up and down......Sanding a Strat fingerboard? If it's Maple, don't. The wood is porous and will soak up moisture and swell and crack. Rosewood fingerboard? Shouldn't have lacquer on it in the first place, so sand away. Again, Maple? No.
216trixie its a maple fingerboard
Logan Miller yes, 1 piece birdseye maple
The guitar is 20 years old and it looks like it just came off the rack
id sand off the lacquer (or have someone do it for you)
Thank you for answering that question. This confirms my thoughts on the subject and how one might manipulate the sound of a guitar by more than just choices of strings, pickups and wood types. 😎🙃😃
This explains a helluva lot! I wondered why Gibson Les Paul guitars come in 21 or 22 frets and I couldn't find any 24 frets. This is probably a "duh" question but I assume you can make 25.5 inch Gibson Les Paul if you wanted with 24 frets?
Not "YOU" specifically, anyone in general.
Just some info for you Ben for you consideration, in my experience things are a bit opposite. For the past few years I've played mostly Fender Jaguars. They are one of the brightest guitars out there, and their scale length is 24". You mention using smaller gauge strings to improve the sound and the tension on shorter scales, but you actually want to bump it up a gauge or two. On my Fender and Gibson scaled instruments I usually play standard 10's. On my Jaguars, I have 11's on there. In my experience with Jaguars, Mustangs and the other shortscale Fender Offsets, the shorter the scale length the plinkier the sound, not the warmer. Obviously many factors in play with that, but for an idea of similarly built guitars with two scale lengths, check out a Jazzmaster (25.5") vs a Jaguar (24") comparison.
Have to agree with Shepherd & Crow: heavier strings on shorter scales. I make electric tenor guitars w/ a 23" scale length (584.2mm). To achieve a DGBE tuning with comfortable string tension, I use the 5-4-3-2 ( A-D-G-B) strings from a set of electric 10's ( .036, .026, .017, .013). Seems that the person wanting to make a 20" scale electric guitar would need to use extra heavy gauge strings to accomplish a Spanish tuning (E to e).
Scott Goldsberry my bad! I really should have thought a bit about that one before I spoke, I got it completely backwards :(
What scale length do you people prefer and why?
I really want to see your kid's guitars!
One way to say it is that a LP tuned to E is almost like a ST tuned to D# with same strings.
Neck thru does sound "tableado" (like the sound of 2x4 stacking together) and is the number one "twang killer" if you like the strat and tele sound don't get a neck trough.
And how would that be? I mean the sound is produced in the pickups, so why would the type of neck make any difference to the magnetic properties?
510 mm scale lenght is crazy thats 20 inches the frets are going to be so close together 24 inch i think is the shortest you can go
Hello Sir I am very inspired by you, and can we talking in messenger to discuss how to start to building the guitar journey.
Scale length does not affect you tone, your hand placement does. It's all he says she says. Picking closer to bridge give brighter sound while picking away from it produces warmer tone. In short scale length your hand moves away from the bridge because it can't change it's size(for biological reasons) with the change in scale length. Thus giving you warmer sound.
thank you Ben
Who else thinks Ben is bae?
Well all the super strats would be worthless, including Van Halen's if this made SUCH a big difference..
cool
There are ukelele's and guitarlele's with good tone. Also we have travel guitars and parlor guitars with good definition... The Taylor mini and the Gretch are good examples. I would recommend to maybe use a capo and try different strings to see how it plays. Shorter scale and more strings maybe...
th-cam.com/video/hv98Sd01di4/w-d-xo.html Nice sounding eletric and better looking mandolin
Hi! This is zombiebarf! Thank you so much for answering my question!
th-cam.com/video/shWFnbWey_E/w-d-xo.html
Wrong
bubinga
talk talk and no shit info
Pure BS