I've owned 3 Harleys ('93 Softail Custom, '96 Road King and a '04 V-Rod) as well as most recently a 2006 Goldwing. I just traded the Goldwing for a 2012 Victory Cross Country. It is without a doubt the most comfortable and most fun bike I've ever ridden. Perfect balance in the curves and can carry 586 lbs. - that's more than the Goldwing or Road King. Rock on Victory!!!
I have logged over 100K miles on Harleys, only replace 1 stator and a clutch cable. Glad Victory and Indian are making good bikes too, but I like my H-D's
brentmann I've got an '86 Sportster I bought in '87. Has over 96,000 miles on it. While I think they moved the stator on the Sportster later on, mine is behind the clutch, farther away than even the Victory. And the one stator failure I had was a short. Turned out it was a tear in the wire on the outside of the grommet in the back of the chaincase. The stator itself was fine.My bike hasn't seen the inside of a dealer since 1988, and then I made 'em give me my money back. Simple is better.
@ArizonaVictory U say HD has problems with stators failing , My 03 Wideglide has got the original one. No problems with the primary chain either. Are there any good features on a HD that u might want to point out? BTW I havnt had any problems at all with this bike, had since new 62000 mi
Not saying Victory is a bad bike or anything, but the mechanic neglects to mention that a chain drive is the most efficient way to transfer power. You get less parasitic horsepower loss with a chain (even less with a belt) and you don't get the harmonics caused by the gears. You also have less rotating mass with a chain. Having said that, gears are more reliable. HD's stator burns out not due to heat, but due to water getting past an improperly installed stator plug causing it to short out; however, the plug location could obviously be better. I won't make any excuses for the HD starter setup, other than it was an afterthought from the AMF era when kick-start was standard and electric start was optional. I am glad Victory (and Indian) are in the market and doing so well because they will force HD to become more competitive. HD's new water-cooled bikes are proof of that.
Perfectly said! Harley definitely has the knowledge and ability to do all the things you mentioned. And people complain about them not doing it, but there's no reason to. The guy said, about Victory, 'If it ain't broke'. Same with Harley. I have never had one single second of trouble from mine and I ride her hard! Actually I had more trouble with both my Ninja and Gixxer. Plus no bike made holds value like a Harley. Proven fact. And you're so right on target about Ducati! Bad reliability.
As a Harley Rider, I enjoyed the detail in this vid. Saying that HD still does something because they want the income from repairs isn't provable, but comparisons like this are technically interesting. I like the idea that another quality motorcycle is being built in the US, but knocking Harleys won't help Victory. Personally I would consider buying a Vic if it had more attractive styling. It's not news that chain-driven primaries and clunky solenoid starters are old technology.
I used to own a 2012 Soft tail. Now I own a 2014 Victory Highball. The Victory has more power out of the box but their is a huge difference in craftsmanship between the two - The HD virtually had zero plastic parts on it and just felt like more of a solid bike. My Victory is 2 months old and already in the shop getting transmission work done. It shifts like hell and giving false neutrals. I have done the research and this seems to be the norm with Victory. I don't care what anyone says, you do get what you pay for. Not to mention that the HD holds their value more than any other bike, I still got 18 grand from insurance when I totaled my HD. Needless to say, my next bike will be another HD.
Really? That's sad to read. I own a Dyna Super Glide and was hoping to get a Victory HighBall myself...I've been reading the transmissions are a problem though (like you just posted) sounds like I might be keeping my trusty carbed Dyna after all...
Kevin Bladsacker That interesting, I posted a comment about that same thing about a 2yrs ago and they deleted it, because I bashed them for not doing their fact checking current day front wheel drive car still use chain drive in their transmissions They claim 1938 Nash was the last year for car makers to use it
Thanks for producing these informative videos. Product sales aside, there's a lot of good information to be gained here for the motorcycle engine layman.
The reason Harley can't reengineer their engines to be better is its customer base. If you changed something as simple as the the starter location, you'd have the fan base in an uproar about it. "Thats not a Harley, they have their starters in the back". HD also didn't have the advantage of a hugely successful parent company to float it along and foot the bill for designing an engine from the ground up. Nor did they have the advantage of having everyone else's engineering and experience of almost 100 years of V-twin engines to copy and/or improve. Victory's are great machines, I had a 2000 V92C. My problem with them is they just don't support their older bikes at all. Try to find ANY part for an older V92 that isn't used. You can't. 5 years from now when they change frames again, try to find a part for your 2014 Boardwalk. Bet you have a hell of a time.
47% of ALL bikes on the road in the US are Harleys , how do they keep selling so many bikes if they fall apart after 20K miles ? Victorys not a bad bike but it ain't head and shoulders above a Harley , the market certainly doesn't reflect that.
HD owner here... ALL Harley's are simply a big boat anchor on 2 wheels. That's it. There are 2 reasons why people like me own Harley-Davidsons... 1) The sound and 2) the people. There are Sportbike, Adventurebike, Enduro, Cruisers, Ninjabikes, and whatever else, and THEN there are Harley's. They are their own class and always will be. I own 1 Harley, 1 Dualsport, and another Cruiser, so don't think I play the favoritism game.
I try like hell to understand why there is so much loyalty to a company that makes the crap that they do. Again, if you have had good luck, that's awesome. I'm speaking from a mechanic point of view, and I also have been riding for 36 years. I currently have 70K on a turbo'd 300+ horse Hayabusa, which is completely stock internally. We can't get a 100 horse from a harley without spending a fortune to upgrade it's internals. Not everyone needs that much power, but 100 horse isn't that much.
Im new to bikes, always liked the sound of a harley but heard they had a lot of reliability issues from guys who had them. Most of my harley riding friends have an import bike as well. There are styling reasons that people like Harley, but after discovering the Victory bikes, im impressed by the engineering as well as style! Best thing is, its US made not an import. Soon as I scratch some cash together im seriously considering a Victory bike!
I was raised with Harley Davidson in N.J.. But the fact is that they break often and are over priced. Victory is going to be the winner. Thanks for informative video.
Now this is what I'm talking about .. Brilliant simple and excellent expose' .. I would like to encourage victory to come up with a something on the idea of a dirt or a street tracker.
Zone Television Media Moving the stator (and the rest of the motorcycles) is _exactly_ what race bike builders (and road based superbike replicas built by HTV Blu!!) do to make their bikes MUCH more reliable. Manufacturers don't. Whether this is because, as they claim, it is not necessary for road based machines or simply to ensure the requirement for servicing, is open to argument! Or perhaps it's clear why. Incidentally, with sports bikes Yamaha are most guilty for stupid placement (road not race though obviously.) I tend to use a company named West Country Windings to build custom stators that work much more reliably and site them more sensibly. Interesting video, thanks.
Zone Television Media Also, ever heard of Mule? They (he, actually) build some beautiful customs, I'd like to copy! I suspect you'll like them. www.mulemotorcycles.net/
Definitely a better primary drive and starter setup. Also the primary adjusters on the later Harleys are not hydraulic as you say. They're mechanical and suck. The chain sometimes is too loose and others times it's to tight. When it's too tight it has no way of loosening and you wind up riding around with a tight primary chain. And by the way the Harley V-rod does have a gear drive primary and It's better than the Victory. They don't have an idler in the middle to reverse the rotation. They reverse the rotation of the Engine instead.
I hope Victory continues to focus on the ride..and not the marketing,t shirt ,image market.Im glad to whitness the birth of a new icon (even though the masses dont know it yet)I think its exciting,and i plan on giving my daily driver to my son ...and his grand kids will own my beat up,battled,road scared Vic some day!
with the Victory Stator and Clutch being cooled with 5 quarts of constantly cooled oil I am sure you can seehow the stator and clutch are kept cooler and thus not prone to failures.
When I was shopping for a Victory Motorcycle I watched all 5 of these episodes. I'm now convinced I'm riding a technologically superior bike. However, are the new Indian's inferior with their pushrod technology and chain primary? It's my understanding the 111 thunderstroke was designed by polaris from the ground up. Sharing many of the 106 engineers. Or are those things only bad for Harley's and customs?
Engaged in the one way clutch so you don't really have anything moving unless you engage the starter button. The reason for this eliminated a lot of moving parts especially the starter soleniod and other componenets that fail. The Victory starter is so simple and it fits every Victory ever made. In 13 years servicing them I have yet to have to replace a starter.
Simply put, Harley is all about pushing the Harley image. They spend 10 times more money than any other motorcycle manufacturer on advertising. The other manufacturers spend 10 times more on research and development. Harley; " How can we keep selling people the same old shit"? Other manufacturers; "How can we improve our product"?
I've always loved the sound and look of Harley Davidsons, they got me interested in customs in the first place. However, since Victory got on the scene i felt the modern design reliability and performance spoke volumes. So 4 days ago i bought myself a brand new Vegas 8-ball with stage 1 and a 2 into 1 cobra exhaust and i couldn't be happier! I've found MY brand and it is Victory. The most important thing is we have the freedom to chose what we wanna ride. Stick together bikers.
My brother had trouble with his Victory Cross Country Starter after it's first year and it took two dealers and two months and the factory hot line for them to acknowledge the that the starter was the problem. He was told for starter longevity do not stab at the button. Hold t down until the engine is running. So they essentially put the blame on his operation of the motorcycle. Aside from that he has been very happy with his bike and never stops bragging about how technologically superior it is to a Harley Davidson. I like all motorcycles but I have to agree that the HD designs are either to milk service money from their customers or built more for the mechanic that like to turn wrenches than the rider who just wants to ride. Or maybe they prefer selling motor-clothes?
My friend has an Electra glide. He was rolling down the interstate for about a 20 mile stretch exit to exit. When he got to his exit he went to down shift and realized that his entire shift linkage...shift arm and tie rod...had vibrated loose and fell off of the bike some time during that 20 mile stretch between exits. No manufacturer is with out a single horror story. The best part is....every time he came to my house before that happened and especially since. I would look at his bike vibrating away in my driveway and I would say aren't you afraid something is just going to fly off of that paint shaker and kill some innocent by-stander. His standard reply F**K YOU!
I ride a 2012 Cross Country. I regularly get 40-50 MPG, easily. Since it's fuel injected, you can set the Victory Cross Country's LCD display to show you how many miles per gallon you're getting while you ride. So you can monitor efficiency you're getting at all times. Like pretty much every Victory owner, I love mine. Rock solid, reliable, and the best handling of any bike in its class.
I just can't get over how the Vision touring bike looks like it's straight out of the Jetson's, I hate it... the other models look pretty cool but I'll stick with my 09 Ultra Classic FLHTCU. Honestly I did a 103" - 95 hp/ 109tq to it so I could safely pass when necessary when two up and loaded down. I think you really need at least that if not more. I've done a lot of other things as well to make it fit me and my likes better. I have learned some things about the Twin Cam I'm not impressed with but I'll deal with it. I really just love the bike and it's classic styling. We've taken it coast to coast and a whole lot more. (Rant about to begin) - My local dealer in Wichita KS, Alef's H-D can kiss my Ass. (5 min from my house) After spending over 35K with them over a couple of years, when I didn't have them do my 103 they wouldn't dyno it.. even if I signed a waver that if it blew up I wouldn't hold them responsible...I dropped the F Bomb about 5 times and said I'd never be back, that was 3 yrs ago and I never have. Topeka Ks Harley Davidson, 2hrs away and always worth it to see and deal with them. Oh and they had no problem taking my $$ and dialed it in on their Dyno... rant over... As far a Victory/Polaris I have an RZR XP900 and there's no way I'd leave that at their shop... Anyway, to each their own and keep the rubber side down!!! Oh, and watch out for the freaking retards doing everything but paying attention to the road... I had a personnel exp in 08, changed mine my family"s life forever...
Looks are subjective and do nothing for the overall handling and reliability of a bike. The problem with harleys, and you have wrote what you have done to correct this, are the built in inherent problems that they can't seem to over come. For a company to be in business over 100 years, they should have their products figured out and nobody should be able to touch them in performance and reliability! Yet all other surpass them in both! My bitch with harley, is that they don't want to evolve to become the best they could be, rather let it up to the consumer to upgrade everything to make it what it already should have been to begin with! Supporting a worthless thoughtless company such as harley does nothing to help them to improve. We should all boycott until they figure out that we aren't going to settle for the shit they have been producing! I own a motorcycle shop, we repair all brands, and I can honestly say I am very disappointed with the build quality of harleys, and their failure to progress when better technologies exist that would improve their design. The almighty dollar seems to be the factor with them and their resistance to change. Worry about their customer base is bullshit, because so many are after the best to be had, that is why Victory and Indian are the hottest thing right now, along with the others that sell as well. So the old excuse that if harleys change they will loose their customer base is total bullshit!
I agree with what you are saying, I had to do some of the things to mine just so it would get out of the way of it'self 2 up loaded for a trip..lol. I love the style of it and will most likely have this bike for some time. I have an H-D dealer 5 min from my house "Alefs" and choose to drive 2 plus hrs to Topeka H-D to do my business. I haven't stepped tires on their property in almost 2 yrs. They wouldn't dyno my 103 because they didn't build it... I'd spent over 35K with them in the previous 2 or 3 yrs. I said I'd never be back, they said "ok" Topeka H-D had no problem taking my money and did a great job ... When it comes to cruisers, the Victory High Ball has my interest for a second ride.. If I'm ever going to buy a new touring V Twin, I may have to test a new Victory... I jst have my FLHTCU where I want it, and I love the look ;-)
Lol! Motor issues after 20K on a Harley. Oh my my, ya right. He is a very good Victory salesman though! I have multiple Harley's (softail, v-rod) and NO issues ever at any mileage. My father in-law has a Victory, nice bike, but not good looking and it uses very cheap parts. Feels more like a four wheeler quality and not road worthy materials. Not to mention a Victory will cost you every penny (save for maybe a few less) as a Harley. My father in-law paid $20k for his Cross Country and I paid the same for my softail custom......both brand new from local dealerships. LIsten guys and gals, ride what YOU want. YOU have to make that payment every month. Who cares, Ford or Chevy. We're both driving on the road!!??
I second that! Harley Dealers are crazy ridiculous. They lie, and give the Motor Co a bad rep. All vehicles have their issues. Not possible to not on a 100% mechanical machine. Just not possible.
The only thing that Harley has over Victory is brand-self-indentification. Harley owners think of themselves as Harley owners and introduce themselves as Harley owners (and they'll get the tattoo to show it). A Victory rider typically refers to themselves as a motorcyclist. All the superior tech in the world won't change the minds of people who don't want to know about it.
The biking world would be a much worse place without Victory, and Harley could certainly do with more performance orientated bikes. However the focus on bashing HD for still using much of the same technology for 100+ years is to miss the point that many riders see this as a positive, they like the vintage feel of the bikes, and the fact they are not a new "fake" retro bike but have tangible links to the first Harleys produced, this is quite unique and a positive, as Harley well know..
I have been looking at both Harley and Victory. I have to say that I do love the Victory engine, but the overall appearance of the bike is horrible. The rear fended sit about a foot and a half away from the rear tire to give it a longer look. Also the huge rear tail light really doesn't look good. I did like that the Victory models are not tanks to lift, and seem a lot more comfortable to spread out on without spending tons of money on extra parts. After comparing prices, the Victory is no
I'm convinced. My next bike will be a Victory. I have been riding Suzukis and Kawasakis for over 30 years. Still, I can't prove this, but I'm pretty sure my KZ550 that I bought new in '84 had a CHAIN primary drive. KZ550's were regarded as indestructible back then. I'm pretty sure chains have been used since 1939.
@O7ROADKING Well the difference is Victory Stators are bathed in constantly cooled 5 quarts of oil and the HD has 1 quart of oil in the primary and so when the clutch heats up and the stator is generating Power to charge the battery the 1 quart of oil gets so hot you take out the HD stator. So cooling the stator and the clutch with 5 quarts of cooled oil keeps Victory from having Stator and Clutch failures.
No where in this video does it say the victorys have gear drivin cams. They have overhead cams. Mike shultz even said so. Listen up. Dont knock it just because its newer technology than a harley. And more reliable. If you wanna ride get a vic. If you want a show peice. Something you can polish. Show everyone you have a bike then get a harley
Doesnt matter what you ride as long as your riding. I personally own a Harley and absolutely love it. Owned several bikes before it but my Harley is my favorite!
I agree with Travixius. I've owned three Harley's in my lifetime and had trouble with all three and always got the "It's normal!" response from Harley Davidson Service Departments. The best Harley day in my life was the day I traded my last one in on 2013 Victory Vision. Piss on Harley Davidson and their Union made junk.
The cam shoes might wear out prematurely, but my 06' Standard Electra Glide now has 52K on it and I have yet to replace them. Not to say they aren't wearing, just that mine have lasted better than twice as long as most seem to think they will. So eat it ArizonaVictory!
Your right that bearing could wear out and need replaced eventually along with the wheel bearings and clutch. Now, what about the primary, stator, belt replacement, plastic tensioner feet and why and the guy in my town that can't keep the damn thing running or my old boss's 20K Harley that had to get hauled in with no oil pressure. But your right, you don't want to spin a bearing around too much, it could wear out.
so basically he said if it aint broke dont fix it hmmm gee wonder why harley still use chain drive i never had one go bad on me same with the stator placement and starter so basically this guy is full of shit come back in 50 years of road driving and tell me if this new thing is still running and how much they change it to Improve upon
He is right, Polaris stock has been on a steady rise since 2004 and even through the tough 2007-2009 times and continues to climb, same can't be said of HD's
Well with the right pipes the Vic's come very close and sound badass in their own right. As for mantainance issues with Harley, my buddy barely rides his because of something always breaking. Luke most things some models are probably more problematic then others. But from an engineering standpoint Victory did well by eliminating the chain drive and going to an OHC setup. I know a popular coversion for SBF racers is to eliminate the timing chain in favor of a geared steup for track reliability.
My Harley FXRS-SP is 23 years old and I have never had a stator failure or any problems with the primary chain. I'm still in love with my bike. Just Saying.
The engine tech looks cool but I just can't get past the look. Last summer I considered the new BMW, GoldWing, Vision & the Electra Glide. The BMW was very strong but not our cup of tea. I own a 96 Wing & wanted to try out the newer 1800 but no luck getting a Honda shop to let me test ride even a used one. Vision, not interested. Sounds good on paper but the styling is way out there. A 106 in a Ultra Classic style frame would be cool. Wound up with a new Ultra Classic & happy with my selection.
i spoke to a CVO owner yesterday, and he told me that the CVO 110 did not have much more power than the 103. I was shocked. He spent $43,000 on a motorcycle/brand and couldnt perceive any power increase in the bigger motor. Harley is going to be in big trouble if they dont wake up and see what's going on around them: everyone is making better bikes than them. it's going to catch up with them sooner or later.
No just the transmission kit, you can still get what ever necessary parts you need and that is what we do as it is a lot cheaper anyways and I am sure that is why they discontinued the kit they just never sold enough of them.
Don't get me wrong, I like all the other innovations that are real improvements in reliability. I just don't get this one (the always spinning starter) as being a selling point. If anything they should keep quiet about it. Again I ask, is there really that big a problem with people accidentally hitting the start button while the motor is running?
Awesome insight thank you for your open explanations concerning internal works in comparison to Harley,obviously a better design and superior engineering .....Please forgive me my fellow Harley owners.
@wideglide0003 how many times have you ground the starter in your car? if you have done it more than once sense being a kid maybe driving is not for you
Wow I was considering a Harley thinking they have improved their technology, but I can't afford constant rebuilds. That chain is going to be expensive unless you do your own work.
I don't understand why any company preaching technology and innovation would compare themselves with Harley. Most people who buy Harley's do not buy them because they want a technologically advanced motorcycle. I don't think victory bikes are better just different. Victories are super cool and I don't need to say anything about another brand to feel that way.
Every time I show up at bike events all the HD guys are sweating my Hammer. Its as if they never seen one before. But it shouldn't be Victory vs Harley. We all ride on two wheels. But its also good to have competition.
I own a hammer and couldn't be happier. Harley could make a ledger version of the Sportster motor because it's pretty much bulletproof, but they won't because they'll lose millions in service fees. I do want an old school shove with a kick.
The chain drive cams in all Motorcycles/.cars do not get the torque loads that you get on the transmission, Now a lot of vehicles use chains and even motorcycles to drive the rear wheels but the best way to drive the transmission from the engine is gears not a chain that constantly has to be adjusted
sister, mother, brother, father, grandma, grandpa, wife and me ride harley so aparently its more than just had its day. its still going stronger then any other bike company out. I hope victory can pull out some huge sales and be huge too. Im just sick of everyone ripping on harleys! their bikes and victories bikes are technically two totally different bikes yet everyone wants to compare them.
Obviously this guy knows his stuff. Is it one sided, sure, but is any of it not true? Just about every Harley my friends have owned needed a stator by 20,000 miles. That's just a plain fact. I traded my Road Glide for a new Cross Country last week. I test drove one in Sturgis and couldn't believe I was on an American made, air-cooled, v-twin. I was so used to the lack of refinement with Harleys, I never expected the Victory to be that much better. But they are! I'm not looking back!
The thing I love most about this is that you don't see Harley going out there and bad mouthing the competition, but year in and year out they are still the more popular bikes. If Harley's were so crappy there is no way that used Harley's would go for as much as new Victory's.
To be fair to HD, the bikes do evolve every year, they now have decent tyres, brakes, suspension, efi, integrated LED brake and turn signals, you can buy SE exhausts and super-tuners, however much rightly stays the same over the decades, because people love the purity and continuity of a Harley, such as the general shape of the bikes and the big air-cooled, push rod ohv twins. Yes you could buy a faster, cheaper to maintain american bike, ie Victory, but you won't be riding the real thing.
@Candubrain i appreicate your honesty. =) i actually like the intake on the vision. my old bikes always got the air cleaner wet if it sat in the rain (high flow filter) plus i liked how it pushed the air from the front of the bike... then i really liked the 2nd intake aftermarket option! i added that and got some real pick up and go. but you do hear the sound of air being sucked in with the 2nd aftermarket intake. but i guess that is the price for added performance.
I guess the guy forgot to mention that the stators on harleys are cooled by the primary case fluid. So it does get cooled off pretty well... As for the starters being engaged all the time, I wonder how many one-way bearing failures they've had that they aren't mentioning. Both bikes have pro's and con's
It's a motorcycle. Buy what you like. I own a Honda, a Kawasaki, and (GASP!) a Harley. Buying a motorcycle shouldn't be like buying a car, it should be like buying a piece of art. Buy what speaks to you the most.
Plus being $40k+ for new custom bikes in the midst of the biggest recession since the crash of '29 didn't help much with the factory custom brands. That said though, on non-factory customs, I would love to see Russell Mitchell get his hands on a High-Ball. I love mine, but sheesh the wiring needs some sanitary work up front. My single only solitary complaint, besides what the EPA makes brands do to their products.
I really do dig Victory. I own a harley and wish I owned a Victory. I think that in time Victory will NOT need to do the Pepsi challenge with harley. Soon everyone will figure out this brand of bike is the best on the road. I would gladly hand over my harley for any victory on the road today, tomorrow or next year...
If it were all about technical innovations, there's be no tube guitar amps. The tubes break easily, need biasing, lose tone over time, always need replacing, etc. But if you want great tone and "feel" that's what you buy. Sure, you can buy an electronic or digital amp and remove all the headaches (and the expense) of owning a tube amp, but convenience is not the point of playing guitar. For some, the same is true about their bike.
I'm not so sure that having the starter always engaged on the Victory is a good thing. First, I can't see 'starter grinding' being that big of a problem on a motorcycle. It's not like a car where you have plenty of soundproofing and can't always hear the motor running. Second, I don't think too many mechanics would agree that having the starter always spinning away nonstop is a good idea. He did not say that the Victory starters lasted any longer than the harleys, only that they have not changed
I've owned 3 Harleys ('93 Softail Custom, '96 Road King and a '04 V-Rod) as well as most recently a 2006 Goldwing. I just traded the Goldwing for a 2012 Victory Cross Country. It is without a doubt the most comfortable and most fun bike I've ever ridden. Perfect balance in the curves and can carry 586 lbs. - that's more than the Goldwing or Road King. Rock on Victory!!!
The number one reason Harley riders refuse to switch: They would have to replace their entire wardrobe! :-)
I have logged over 100K miles on Harleys, only replace 1 stator and a clutch cable. Glad Victory and Indian are making good bikes too, but I like my H-D's
brentmann I've got an '86 Sportster I bought in '87. Has over 96,000 miles on it. While I think they moved the stator on the Sportster later on, mine is behind the clutch, farther away than even the Victory. And the one stator failure I had was a short. Turned out it was a tear in the wire on the outside of the grommet in the back of the chaincase. The stator itself was fine.My bike hasn't seen the inside of a dealer since 1988, and then I made 'em give me my money back. Simple is better.
I'll keep an open mind, ......and give Victory a chance. Let's see where they're at in 112 years.
+SEVENSIXTWO BYTHIRTYNINE I sure the hell hope they wouldn't be selling new antiques to idiots that are mechanically illiterate like harley does now!
does that guy in blue on the right gotta piss?
I drive both. The Victory clunks just as loud when I put it in gear?
@ArizonaVictory U say HD has problems with stators failing , My 03 Wideglide has got the original one. No problems with the primary chain either. Are there any good features on a HD that u might want to point out? BTW I havnt had any problems at all with this bike, had since new 62000 mi
Not saying Victory is a bad bike or anything, but the mechanic neglects to mention that a chain drive is the most efficient way to transfer power. You get less parasitic horsepower loss with a chain (even less with a belt) and you don't get the harmonics caused by the gears. You also have less rotating mass with a chain. Having said that, gears are more reliable. HD's stator burns out not due to heat, but due to water getting past an improperly installed stator plug causing it to short out; however, the plug location could obviously be better. I won't make any excuses for the HD starter setup, other than it was an afterthought from the AMF era when kick-start was standard and electric start was optional. I am glad Victory (and Indian) are in the market and doing so well because they will force HD to become more competitive. HD's new water-cooled bikes are proof of that.
Perfectly said! Harley definitely has the knowledge and ability to do all the things you mentioned. And people complain about them not doing it, but there's no reason to. The guy said, about Victory, 'If it ain't broke'. Same with Harley. I have never had one single second of trouble from mine and I ride her hard! Actually I had more trouble with both my Ninja and Gixxer. Plus no bike made holds value like a Harley. Proven fact.
And you're so right on target about Ducati! Bad reliability.
As a Harley Rider, I enjoyed the detail in this vid. Saying that HD still does something because they want the income from repairs isn't provable, but comparisons like this are technically interesting. I like the idea that another quality motorcycle is being built in the US, but knocking Harleys won't help Victory. Personally I would consider buying a Vic if it had more attractive styling. It's not news that chain-driven primaries and clunky solenoid starters are old technology.
I used to own a 2012 Soft tail. Now I own a 2014 Victory Highball. The Victory has more power out of the box but their is a huge difference in craftsmanship between the two - The HD virtually had zero plastic parts on it and just felt like more of a solid bike. My Victory is 2 months old and already in the shop getting transmission work done. It shifts like hell and giving false neutrals. I have done the research and this seems to be the norm with Victory. I don't care what anyone says, you do get what you pay for. Not to mention that the HD holds their value more than any other bike, I still got 18 grand from insurance when I totaled my HD. Needless to say, my next bike will be another HD.
Really? That's sad to read. I own a Dyna Super Glide and was hoping to get a Victory HighBall myself...I've been reading the transmissions are a problem though (like you just posted) sounds like I might be keeping my trusty carbed Dyna after all...
And my Victory is in the shop again with more transmission issues and blown fork seals. Only 4,100 miles on it
Damn that sucks. Sorry to hear that Casey Grant . Victory sure looks promising, but I guess one should always take advertising with a grain of salt.
My Wrangler uses a chain to drive the transfer case. Just a wee bit more torque being transferred there perhaps than the motorcycles.
Kevin Bladsacker That interesting, I posted a comment about that same thing about a 2yrs ago and they deleted it, because I bashed them for not doing their fact checking current day front wheel drive car still use chain drive in their transmissions They claim 1938 Nash was the last year for car makers to use it
Thanks for producing these informative videos. Product sales aside, there's a lot of good information to be gained here for the motorcycle engine layman.
The reason Harley can't reengineer their engines to be better is its customer base. If you changed something as simple as the the starter location, you'd have the fan base in an uproar about it. "Thats not a Harley, they have their starters in the back". HD also didn't have the advantage of a hugely successful parent company to float it along and foot the bill for designing an engine from the ground up. Nor did they have the advantage of having everyone else's engineering and experience of almost 100 years of V-twin engines to copy and/or improve. Victory's are great machines, I had a 2000 V92C. My problem with them is they just don't support their older bikes at all. Try to find ANY part for an older V92 that isn't used. You can't. 5 years from now when they change frames again, try to find a part for your 2014 Boardwalk. Bet you have a hell of a time.
Bought a Vic rather than an HD after learning so much from Mike. Thanx for the vids.
47% of ALL bikes on the road in the US are Harleys , how do they keep selling so many bikes if they fall apart after 20K miles ? Victorys not a bad bike but it ain't head and shoulders above a Harley , the market certainly doesn't reflect that.
HD owner here... ALL Harley's are simply a big boat anchor on 2 wheels. That's it. There are 2 reasons why people like me own Harley-Davidsons... 1) The sound and 2) the people. There are Sportbike, Adventurebike, Enduro, Cruisers, Ninjabikes, and whatever else, and THEN there are Harley's. They are their own class and always will be. I own 1 Harley, 1 Dualsport, and another Cruiser, so don't think I play the favoritism game.
I try like hell to understand why there is so much loyalty to a company that makes the crap that they do. Again, if you have had good luck, that's awesome. I'm speaking from a mechanic point of view, and I also have been riding for 36 years. I currently have 70K on a turbo'd 300+ horse Hayabusa, which is completely stock internally. We can't get a 100 horse from a harley without spending a fortune to upgrade it's internals. Not everyone needs that much power, but 100 horse isn't that much.
Im new to bikes, always liked the sound of a harley but heard they had a lot of reliability issues from guys who had them. Most of my harley riding friends have an import bike as well. There are styling reasons that people like Harley, but after discovering the Victory bikes, im impressed by the engineering as well as style! Best thing is, its US made not an import. Soon as I scratch some cash together im seriously considering a Victory bike!
I was raised with Harley Davidson in N.J.. But the fact is that they break often and are over priced. Victory is going to be the winner. Thanks for informative video.
doesn't the 2000 Victory V92SC have a chain cam?
Now this is what I'm talking about .. Brilliant simple and excellent expose' .. I would like to encourage victory to come up with a something on the idea of a dirt or a street tracker.
Zone Television Media Moving the stator (and the rest of the motorcycles) is _exactly_ what race bike builders (and road based superbike replicas built by HTV Blu!!) do to make their bikes MUCH more reliable. Manufacturers don't. Whether this is because, as they claim, it is not necessary for road based machines or simply to ensure the requirement for servicing, is open to argument!
Or perhaps it's clear why.
Incidentally, with sports bikes Yamaha are most guilty for stupid placement (road not race though obviously.)
I tend to use a company named West Country Windings to build custom stators that work much more reliably and site them more sensibly.
Interesting video, thanks.
Zone Television Media
Also, ever heard of Mule? They (he, actually) build some beautiful customs, I'd like to copy!
I suspect you'll like them.
www.mulemotorcycles.net/
Definitely a better primary drive and starter setup. Also the primary adjusters on the later Harleys are not hydraulic as you say. They're mechanical and suck. The chain sometimes is too loose and others times it's to tight. When it's too tight it has no way of loosening and you wind up riding around with a tight primary chain. And by the way the Harley V-rod does have a gear drive primary and It's better than the Victory. They don't have an idler in the middle to reverse the rotation. They reverse the rotation of the Engine instead.
I hope Victory continues to focus on the ride..and not the marketing,t shirt ,image market.Im glad to whitness the birth of a new icon (even though the masses dont know it yet)I think its exciting,and i plan on giving my daily driver to my son ...and his grand kids will own my beat up,battled,road scared Vic some day!
If it wasnt for Ronald Regan saving Harley Davidson there wouldnt be 110 yrs.
These vids are one of the main reasons I bought my vicotry and have never looked back!!
with the Victory Stator and Clutch being cooled with 5 quarts of constantly cooled oil I am sure you can seehow the stator and clutch are kept cooler and thus not prone to failures.
When I was shopping for a Victory Motorcycle I watched all 5 of these episodes. I'm now convinced I'm riding a technologically superior bike. However, are the new Indian's inferior with their pushrod technology and chain primary? It's my understanding the 111 thunderstroke was designed by polaris from the ground up. Sharing many of the 106 engineers. Or are those things only bad for Harley's and customs?
This isn't a Harley vs Victory. This is a Victory commercial.
I'm sold. I wanted a Harley Davidson Street glide but now i want a Victory Cross Country. Better made, less maintenance, Better preforming. SOLD!!!
Ok, these videos are now five years old. What has HD done since then, to address some (if not all) of these issues raised?
Honda S600 made through the 1960's!! Had a chain drive system.
@Candubrain how did it feel loose 15-20HP when you went back?
Engaged in the one way clutch so you don't really have anything moving unless you engage the starter button. The reason for this eliminated a lot of moving parts especially the starter soleniod and other componenets that fail. The Victory starter is so simple and it fits every Victory ever made. In 13 years servicing them I have yet to have to replace a starter.
Simply put, Harley is all about pushing the Harley image. They spend 10 times more money than any other motorcycle manufacturer on advertising. The other manufacturers spend 10 times more on research and development.
Harley; " How can we keep selling people the same old shit"?
Other manufacturers; "How can we improve our product"?
I've always loved the sound and look of Harley Davidsons, they got me interested in customs in the first place. However, since Victory got on the scene i felt the modern design reliability and performance spoke volumes. So 4 days ago i bought myself a brand new Vegas 8-ball with stage 1 and a 2 into 1 cobra exhaust and i couldn't be happier! I've found MY brand and it is Victory. The most important thing is we have the freedom to chose what we wanna ride. Stick together bikers.
My brother had trouble with his Victory Cross Country Starter after it's first year and it took two dealers and two months and the factory hot line for them to acknowledge the that the starter was the problem.
He was told for starter longevity do not stab at the button. Hold t down until the engine is running. So they essentially put the blame on his operation of the motorcycle.
Aside from that he has been very happy with his bike and never stops bragging about how technologically superior it is to a Harley Davidson.
I like all motorcycles but I have to agree that the HD designs are either to milk service money from their customers or built more for the mechanic that like to turn wrenches than the rider who just wants to ride. Or maybe they prefer selling motor-clothes?
My friend has an Electra glide. He was rolling down the interstate for about a 20 mile stretch exit to exit. When he got to his exit he went to down shift and realized that his entire shift linkage...shift arm and tie rod...had vibrated loose and fell off of the bike some time during that 20 mile stretch between exits. No manufacturer is with out a single horror story. The best part is....every time he came to my house before that happened and especially since. I would look at his bike vibrating away in my driveway and I would say aren't you afraid something is just going to fly off of that paint shaker and kill some innocent by-stander. His standard reply F**K YOU!
I just had my transmission updated on my 99 Vic after 87,000 miles and they simply ordered and installed the parts, shifts very smooth now
What is the gas mileage on the Victory Cross Country Tour vs Harley Street Glide Special? This was a great 5-part segment.
I ride a 2012 Cross Country. I regularly get 40-50 MPG, easily. Since it's fuel injected, you can set the Victory Cross Country's LCD display to show you how many miles per gallon you're getting while you ride. So you can monitor efficiency you're getting at all times. Like pretty much every Victory owner, I love mine. Rock solid, reliable, and the best handling of any bike in its class.
Dont most car transaxels have a chain drive?
HD sales people always throw out the "Oh, but Harley-Davidson has the best resale value over Victory or any other..." That's their only response.
Man so many HD Haters, Ha if do not like it do not buy it! But i will say it again if it where not for HD all these copys would not exist.
The 69 Honda 750/4 also used a roller chain primary.
I just can't get over how the Vision touring bike looks like it's straight out of the Jetson's, I hate it... the other models look pretty cool but I'll stick with my 09 Ultra Classic FLHTCU. Honestly I did a 103" - 95 hp/ 109tq to it so I could safely pass when necessary when two up and loaded down. I think you really need at least that if not more. I've done a lot of other things as well to make it fit me and my likes better. I have learned some things about the Twin Cam I'm not impressed with but I'll deal with it. I really just love the bike and it's classic styling. We've taken it coast to coast and a whole lot more. (Rant about to begin) - My local dealer in Wichita KS, Alef's H-D can kiss my Ass. (5 min from my house) After spending over 35K with them over a couple of years, when I didn't have them do my 103 they wouldn't dyno it.. even if I signed a waver that if it blew up I wouldn't hold them responsible...I dropped the F Bomb about 5 times and said I'd never be back, that was 3 yrs ago and I never have. Topeka Ks Harley Davidson, 2hrs away and always worth it to see and deal with them. Oh and they had no problem taking my $$ and dialed it in on their Dyno... rant over... As far a Victory/Polaris I have an RZR XP900 and there's no way I'd leave that at their shop... Anyway, to each their own and keep the rubber side down!!! Oh, and watch out for the freaking retards doing everything but paying attention to the road... I had a personnel exp in 08, changed mine my family"s life forever...
Looks are subjective and do nothing for the overall handling and reliability of a bike. The problem with harleys, and you have wrote what you have done to correct this, are the built in inherent problems that they can't seem to over come. For a company to be in business over 100 years, they should have their products figured out and nobody should be able to touch them in performance and reliability! Yet all other surpass them in both!
My bitch with harley, is that they don't want to evolve to become the best they could be, rather let it up to the consumer to upgrade everything to make it what it already should have been to begin with!
Supporting a worthless thoughtless company such as harley does nothing to help them to improve. We should all boycott until they figure out that we aren't going to settle for the shit they have been producing!
I own a motorcycle shop, we repair all brands, and I can honestly say I am very disappointed with the build quality of harleys, and their failure to progress when better technologies exist that would improve their design. The almighty dollar seems to be the factor with them and their resistance to change. Worry about their customer base is bullshit, because so many are after the best to be had, that is why Victory and Indian are the hottest thing right now, along with the others that sell as well. So the old excuse that if harleys change they will loose their customer base is total bullshit!
I agree with what you are saying, I had to do some of the things to mine just so it would get out of the way of it'self 2 up loaded for a trip..lol. I love the style of it and will most likely have this bike for some time. I have an H-D dealer 5 min from my house "Alefs" and choose to drive 2 plus hrs to Topeka H-D to do my business. I haven't stepped tires on their property in almost 2 yrs. They wouldn't dyno my 103 because they didn't build it... I'd spent over 35K with them in the previous 2 or 3 yrs. I said I'd never be back, they said "ok" Topeka H-D had no problem taking my money and did a great job ... When it comes to cruisers, the Victory High Ball has my interest for a second ride.. If I'm ever going to buy a new touring V Twin, I may have to test a new Victory... I jst have my FLHTCU where I want it, and I love the look ;-)
Lol! Motor issues after 20K on a Harley. Oh my my, ya right. He is a very good Victory salesman though! I have multiple Harley's (softail, v-rod) and NO issues ever at any mileage. My father in-law has a Victory, nice bike, but not good looking and it uses very cheap parts. Feels more like a four wheeler quality and not road worthy materials. Not to mention a Victory will cost you every penny (save for maybe a few less) as a Harley. My father in-law paid $20k for his Cross Country and I paid the same for my softail custom......both brand new from local dealerships. LIsten guys and gals, ride what YOU want. YOU have to make that payment every month. Who cares, Ford or Chevy. We're both driving on the road!!??
I second that! Harley Dealers are crazy ridiculous. They lie, and give the Motor Co a bad rep. All vehicles have their issues. Not possible to not on a 100% mechanical machine. Just not possible.
I can wrench on anything, I bought a Victory Cross Country so I don`t have wrench on it. I bought it to ride. 18,000 trouble free miles.
The only thing that Harley has over Victory is brand-self-indentification. Harley owners think of themselves as Harley owners and introduce themselves as Harley owners (and they'll get the tattoo to show it). A Victory rider typically refers to themselves as a motorcyclist. All the superior tech in the world won't change the minds of people who don't want to know about it.
The biking world would be a much worse place without Victory, and Harley could certainly do with more performance orientated bikes.
However the focus on bashing HD for still using much of the same technology for 100+ years is to miss the point that many riders see this as a positive, they like the vintage feel of the bikes, and the fact they are not a new "fake" retro bike but have tangible links to the first Harleys produced, this is quite unique and a positive, as Harley well know..
I have been looking at both Harley and Victory. I have to say that I do love the Victory engine, but the overall appearance of the bike is horrible. The rear fended sit about a foot and a half away from the rear tire to give it a longer look. Also the huge rear tail light really doesn't look good. I did like that the Victory models are not tanks to lift, and seem a lot more comfortable to spread out on without spending tons of money on extra parts. After comparing prices, the Victory is no
Just thinking about switching from HD Electraglide to a Victory Cross Country. Thanks for sharing this informative video.
hd are still cooler
I'm convinced. My next bike will be a Victory. I have been riding Suzukis and Kawasakis for over 30 years.
Still, I can't prove this, but I'm pretty sure my KZ550 that I bought new in '84 had a CHAIN primary drive. KZ550's were regarded as indestructible back then. I'm pretty sure chains have been used since 1939.
yes they have been used since then, but he was talking about cars! strange for a bike video : /
I would consider buying a Victory. I will always own and ride a Harley.
@O7ROADKING Well the difference is Victory Stators are bathed in constantly cooled 5 quarts of oil and the HD has 1 quart of oil in the primary and so when the clutch heats up and the stator is generating Power to charge the battery the 1 quart of oil gets so hot you take out the HD stator. So cooling the stator and the clutch with 5 quarts of cooled oil keeps Victory from having Stator and Clutch failures.
No where in this video does it say the victorys have gear drivin cams. They have overhead cams. Mike shultz even said so. Listen up. Dont knock it just because its newer technology than a harley. And more reliable. If you wanna ride get a vic. If you want a show peice. Something you can polish. Show everyone you have a bike then get a harley
Doesnt matter what you ride as long as your riding. I personally own a Harley and absolutely love it. Owned several bikes before it but my Harley is my favorite!
what about that "chain drive system" on the victory same faults apply
I agree with Travixius. I've owned three Harley's in my lifetime and had trouble with all three and always got the "It's normal!" response from Harley Davidson Service Departments. The best Harley day in my life was the day I traded my last one in on 2013 Victory Vision. Piss on Harley Davidson and their Union made junk.
The cam shoes might wear out prematurely, but my 06' Standard Electra Glide now has 52K on it and I have yet to replace them. Not to say they aren't wearing, just that mine have lasted better than twice as long as most seem to think they will. So eat it ArizonaVictory!
Your right that bearing could wear out and need replaced eventually along with the wheel bearings and clutch. Now, what about the primary, stator, belt replacement, plastic tensioner feet and why and the guy in my town that can't keep the damn thing running or my old boss's 20K Harley that had to get hauled in with no oil pressure. But your right, you don't want to spin a bearing around too much, it could wear out.
so basically he said if it aint broke dont fix it hmmm gee wonder why harley still use chain drive i never had one go bad on me same with the stator placement and starter so basically this guy is full of shit come back in 50 years of road driving and tell me if this new thing is still running and how much they change it to Improve upon
Outstanding video.
Learned a lot.
He is right, Polaris stock has been on a steady rise since 2004 and even through the tough 2007-2009 times and continues to climb, same can't be said of HD's
Well with the right pipes the Vic's come very close and sound badass in their own right. As for mantainance issues with Harley, my buddy barely rides his because of something always breaking. Luke most things some models are probably more problematic then others. But from an engineering standpoint Victory did well by eliminating the chain drive and going to an OHC setup. I know a popular coversion for SBF racers is to eliminate the timing chain in favor of a geared steup for track reliability.
My Harley FXRS-SP is 23 years old and I have never had a stator failure or any problems with the primary chain. I'm still in love with my bike. Just Saying.
The engine tech looks cool but I just can't get past the look. Last summer I considered the new BMW, GoldWing, Vision & the Electra Glide. The BMW was very strong but not our cup of tea. I own a 96 Wing & wanted to try out the newer 1800 but no luck getting a Honda shop to let me test ride even a used one. Vision, not interested. Sounds good on paper but the styling is way out there. A 106 in a Ultra Classic style frame would be cool. Wound up with a new Ultra Classic & happy with my selection.
So whats the clunck I hear on my VTX since there is no chain drive? the drive shaft?
i spoke to a CVO owner yesterday, and he told me that the CVO 110 did not have much more power than the 103. I was shocked. He spent $43,000 on a motorcycle/brand and couldnt perceive any power increase in the bigger motor. Harley is going to be in big trouble if they dont wake up and see what's going on around them: everyone is making better bikes than them. it's going to catch up with them sooner or later.
No just the transmission kit, you can still get what ever necessary parts you need and that is what we do as it is a lot cheaper anyways and I am sure that is why they discontinued the kit they just never sold enough of them.
Don't get me wrong, I like all the other innovations that are real improvements in reliability. I just don't get this one (the always spinning starter) as being a selling point. If anything they should keep quiet about it.
Again I ask, is there really that big a problem with people accidentally hitting the start button while the motor is running?
Awesome insight thank you for your open explanations concerning internal works in comparison to Harley,obviously a better design and superior engineering .....Please forgive me my fellow Harley owners.
Some never get it.Im sick of all this trash talk. Get what makes YOU happy and have fun.
I'm all about giving American made bikes a shot. I love HDs myself. The Victorys and Indians do look great too.
@wideglide0003 how many times have you ground the starter in your car? if you have done it more than once sense being a kid maybe driving is not for you
Wow I was considering a Harley thinking they have improved their technology, but I can't afford constant rebuilds. That chain is going to be expensive unless you do your own work.
I don't understand why any company preaching technology and innovation would compare themselves with Harley. Most people who buy Harley's do not buy them because they want a technologically advanced motorcycle. I don't think victory bikes are better just different. Victories are super cool and I don't need to say anything about another brand to feel that way.
is there any info on the new 2014 Harley vs the new 2014 victory touring bikes yet?
Enough to swear and argue, bikes is just the way to be free... If your motorcycle still working after many years - enjoy it !!!!
Well would have to argue the point on that, we have replaced numerous compensator sprockets due to chain caused fatigue
Every time I show up at bike events all the HD guys are sweating my Hammer. Its as if they never seen one before. But it shouldn't be Victory vs Harley. We all ride on two wheels. But its also good to have competition.
I own a hammer and couldn't be happier. Harley could make a ledger version of the Sportster motor because it's pretty much bulletproof, but they won't because they'll lose millions in service fees. I do want an old school shove with a kick.
The chain drive cams in all Motorcycles/.cars do not get the torque loads that you get on the transmission, Now a lot of vehicles use chains and even motorcycles to drive the rear wheels but the best way to drive the transmission from the engine is gears not a chain that constantly has to be adjusted
sister, mother, brother, father, grandma, grandpa, wife and me ride harley so aparently its more than just had its day. its still going stronger then any other bike company out. I hope victory can pull out some huge sales and be huge too. Im just sick of everyone ripping on harleys! their bikes and victories bikes are technically two totally different bikes yet everyone wants to compare them.
This was not a versus, it was a one sided bash.
Obviously this guy knows his stuff. Is it one sided, sure, but is any of it not true? Just about every Harley my friends have owned needed a stator by 20,000 miles. That's just a plain fact. I traded my Road Glide for a new Cross Country last week. I test drove one in Sturgis and couldn't believe I was on an American made, air-cooled, v-twin. I was so used to the lack of refinement with Harleys, I never expected the Victory to be that much better. But they are! I'm not looking back!
I ride the original which is a Harley and do not need one of the copies ;-))
does the v rod have the same problems.
I had the stator in my Buell go 3 times in 10,000 miles. Stock electronics, no extra load.
The thing I love most about this is that you don't see Harley going out there and bad mouthing the competition, but year in and year out they are still the more popular bikes. If Harley's were so crappy there is no way that used Harley's would go for as much as new Victory's.
To be fair to HD, the bikes do evolve every year, they now have decent tyres, brakes, suspension, efi, integrated LED brake and turn signals, you can buy SE exhausts and super-tuners, however much rightly stays the same over the decades, because people love the purity and continuity of a Harley, such as the general shape of the bikes and the big air-cooled, push rod ohv twins. Yes you could buy a faster, cheaper to maintain american bike, ie Victory, but you won't be riding the real thing.
also pricing their bikes at $30,000 or more in a recession did not help.
@Candubrain i appreicate your honesty. =) i actually like the intake on the vision. my old bikes always got the air cleaner wet if it sat in the rain (high flow filter) plus i liked how it pushed the air from the front of the bike... then i really liked the 2nd intake aftermarket option! i added that and got some real pick up and go. but you do hear the sound of air being sucked in with the 2nd aftermarket intake. but i guess that is the price for added performance.
I guess the guy forgot to mention that the stators on harleys are cooled by the primary case fluid. So it does get cooled off pretty well... As for the starters being engaged all the time, I wonder how many one-way bearing failures they've had that they aren't mentioning. Both bikes have pro's and con's
It's a motorcycle. Buy what you like. I own a Honda, a Kawasaki, and (GASP!) a Harley. Buying a motorcycle shouldn't be like buying a car, it should be like buying a piece of art. Buy what speaks to you the most.
Plus being $40k+ for new custom bikes in the midst of the biggest recession since the crash of '29 didn't help much with the factory custom brands. That said though, on non-factory customs, I would love to see Russell Mitchell get his hands on a High-Ball. I love mine, but sheesh the wiring needs some sanitary work up front. My single only solitary complaint, besides what the EPA makes brands do to their products.
I really do dig Victory. I own a harley and wish I owned a Victory. I think that in time Victory will NOT need to do the Pepsi challenge with harley. Soon everyone will figure out this brand of bike is the best on the road. I would gladly hand over my harley for any victory on the road today, tomorrow or next year...
my 1972 CB750/4 still has it's original tensioners in it. that motor has actually never been opened up.
If it were all about technical innovations, there's be no tube guitar amps. The tubes break easily, need biasing, lose tone over time, always need replacing, etc. But if you want great tone and "feel" that's what you buy. Sure, you can buy an electronic or digital amp and remove all the headaches (and the expense) of owning a tube amp, but convenience is not the point of playing guitar. For some, the same is true about their bike.
@VictoryAreMetricCrap you should add the vrod in there as well. All thew fasteners are metric on those too.
I'm not so sure that having the starter always engaged on the Victory is a good thing. First, I can't see 'starter grinding' being that big of a problem on a motorcycle. It's not like a car where you have plenty of soundproofing and can't always hear the motor running.
Second, I don't think too many mechanics would agree that having the starter always spinning away nonstop is a good idea. He did not say that the Victory starters lasted any longer than the harleys, only that they have not changed