You're entirely correct in how you experienced the games. They're a niche type that doesn't appeal to everyone. However, it isn't meant to be enjoyed in short bursts, exactly because of the patience that it requires. Moreover, these are some games more faithful to Atlus' standard for brutally hard games, so the slow headway is understandable for a new player. So thank you for trying these games. It's always refreshing to see someone new picking up these games. Now, as for tips for a newcomer... If you're having trouble making progress due to how many fights you get into, there are items and skills that reduce the encounter rate. You can take these to have an easier time just progressing through the dungeon or get an easier time walking past FOEs, and you can leave them off when you find that you need some grinding. Because I recommend your party's level to be 3 times the floor number, as a rule of thumb. More precisely, I'd suggest your party to be level 5 for floor 2, level 15 by the end of floor 5, and then slowly dropping below this rule of thumb as you progress further. This way, you are on-par with what the dungeon throws at you. Lastly, HP is not a resource in these games. It's very easy for a party to get wiped due to not keeping their HP up. As such, invest in ways to quickly dispatch regular enemies and mitigate damage taken from powerful FOEs. Your party's staying power is more reflected through their TP than their HP, so don't ever feel bad for quickly going through your healer's reserves. Multi-target offensive skills are frequently a good investment due to their ability to dispatch entire groups of random mobs, and Binds are especially potent against the FOEs and Bosses. Binds in general are really powerful to have around. Since you've played Persona Q/Q2, you may already be familiar with them. In Q, there were Physical, Magic, and Agility binds. These are called Arm, Head, and Leg binds in Etrian Odyssey and will block all skills that utilize that specific body part. Generally, you can tell by the enemy design which parts they might use. A bear, for example, is likely to use its Arms for powerful skills.
I feel like the gameplay loop is similar to rouge-likes a la Hades, where you're supposed to retry the same segments getting further each time. Viewing it like that makes it much more fun.
I'm about 32 hours in and loving it...just reached the 3rd stratum. The beginning is tough but smoothed out for me midway into the 2nd stratum. Grinding materials to sell so you can get upgraded equipment is a necessity if you are playing on expert, imo it's the way the game is intended to be played. Getting the balancing of skills right for your party is another thing to consider - there are several guides online that give you decent ideas on how to get the best out of your party. Progressing through a stratum does take some time initially, however through exploration you will find shortcuts which make things a lot easier. I love Persona and Nocturne but Etrian Odyssey is a dungeon crawler first and foremost, and completely different. It's definitely not for everyone.
Fun fact: expert difficulty is actually based on the original game, so it isn't just how you think it should be played, it's how the original devs think it should be played too!
I think i'm having a similar experience, i the beginning was quite tough and i wiped many times but it really did flatten out to a point that feels managable. I played many dungeon crawl blobbers like Labyrinth of lost souls, Labyrinth of refrain, Stranger of Sword City and the Five Ordeals, but Etrian Odyssey is the one that absolutely sucked me in. I played 35 hours in two days and i love the challenge. I spent 3 hours grinding and prepping and another 2 hours fighting the boss in B8F that you're meant to leave alone until endgame, i managed to beat with alot of medica and a shitton of luck. that felt great, but i was hoping for a secret item or even just some hidden npc dialogue wich there were none of. But nontheless i'm beginning my journey to the third stratum today and i am as hooked as ever.
The beginning of any Etrian game is the hardest part. Even if you know what you're doing, you're often building towards something rather than making things easier on yourself from the get go. Balanced team comps will make things much easier. I had so much fun diving into builds, forums and guides trying to make interesting synergies when the games first came out. Once you get a team that can handle themselves, do damage, survive and refresh their tp, you find that you're going so deep into the dungeon that the only thing stopping you from just living in there is that your item bag is crying for mercy. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing your party start working and throwing it at every challenge that comes your way.
I think a big thing to note is that one of the major arcs that feeds into the fantasy of playing Etrian Odyssey, and really most DRPGs, is how long you can stay in the dungeon. Early on, you're not really all that well prepared and your characters are on the under-powered side, so you have to make constant return trips back home to restock, heal up, update your gear, and the like. As you progress further into the game, you almost always improve both at playing the game and also simply have greater means to survive, heal, restore TP, etc. so your trips into the dungeon end up lasting longer and longer, potentially even only needing to leave entirely on your own terms once you manage whatever it was you went in to do in the first place. Combine that with finding and opening up shortcuts to get through floors you've already explored super fast and you really start feeling like you went from a scrappy group of new recruits who could barely take two steps without risking death to the masters of the labyrinth, able to handle even new encounters without too much trouble. I'm seeing some people in the comments mention significantly preferring the way the games were set up and handled on their home console, so I wanna offer my opinion on that since I don't actually agree with that completely. While the series was definitely designed around the DS/3DS's functions, I actually personally find it in some ways easier to play the game with controller/mouse than I did on the DS, getting way further into EO3 with the PC version than I did the couple times I tried playing it on DS. Both generally require the same "motion" when you need to do things with the map of moving your hand off the buttons to interact with the map, and it's just easier ergonomically speaking to do that with my controller and mouse placed wherever versus the DS stylus placements, especially on the regular size 3DS and New 3DS, where they seem to have intentionally put the stylus in extremely uncomfortable to reach positions for storage. I will readily admit that the mapping on controller alone is pretty terrible, and that is a fairly large blemish on the Switch version of the collection (even though it wouldn't affect me much since the Switch is 95% handheld for me), but luckily the PC version is more or less perfect for my needs and preferences aside from the obvious and completely fair complaints of the price and Denuvo. As far as gameplay tips go, I have one that I think is easy to forget about: You can run from battles. Unlike something like SMT where escaping tends to not really be an option due to the escape chance being low enough to not be worth betting on in times of need, in EO running away is much more consistent, and the chance gets better the longer a fight lasts. If something bad happens in a random encounter, or you run into an FOE you don't actually wanna fight, just dip! So long as you have at least one Ariadne Thread on hand, you can also push yourself way more than otherwise thanks to that as well.
I think the pricing is fine considering they're fully fledged 40+ hour long RPGs with good replay value. I understand the general idea that games should depreciate in price over time, but even at $40 I think it's still a solid value.
Ok regarding the price I totally agree with you there. I get the changes has to made since you're fitting a dual screen game in a single screen but $30 each game with $60 for the collection would have probably be an easier pill to swallow. As far as tips the beginning of these games is very brutal. You get few skills and you die a lot but as you gain levels and equipment it does get better. You'll progress further the more you play it's a but of a slow burn. In the first floor on the south east end there is a spot that you can collect water if you approach it at night and drink from it you'll get 10 tp for the whole party. On the 3rd floor a bit further south you'll find yourself in a room where Tlachtga destroy the wolf with her curses. After the scene she becomes a rest spot until you beat the first stratum boss Fenrir and she can revive teammates. Keep an eye out for shortcuts and use the arrows for shortcuts because it'll glow yellow when you pass through them. Same with treasure boxes they show they are open when you use the icon to represent it when you open on field. This is a very niche game and if it doesn't appeal to you I understand. I personally love this series but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Great video! For awhile I also really struggled to get into the games despite my several attempsts. I think something you gloss over that changed the series for me is team building from a character perspective. Depending on the game this can vary gameplay wise, but what really sets the games apart for me is playing it as though the game was DnD. Come up with your own stories for these characters, really play it like an old school dungeon crawler. It makes the interactions in the dungeons feel so much more apart of your journey and experience, rather than fludf. The personality and story I came up with in my playthroughs felt like they did so much in getting me attached to my party and wantkng to make them better. This really encourages the sense of adventure you attach to the game, and made a huge difference for me personally.
As fas as I can tell, a general rule for any atlus game is to never start with the first 3 unless you can deal with jank, because it takes them 3 games to finally nail it on the 4th. Be it the 3DS side of the EO games, Persona, the other Megamis and Tensei‘s and whatnots- the first 2 games are really janky, 3 is when it starts getting good but still carries some jank residue, and 4 up is when it gets better. Case in point: the easiest starting point for new players is generally considered to be EO4, while the best game seems to be 5, and I personally really like how much freedom in the team compositions (and character customizing) you get for Nexus/technically6butitsnotcalledthat. Especially with those older DS titles, a lot of your game will hinge on having a well balanced team composition that unfortunately doesn’t leave much wiggle room with the limited amount of classes and lack of secondary adjustments, like the subclasses or equipable skills in later games.
Persona 2 wasn’t really janky, it was just…different. It also had the worst “fusion” mechanics and an absurdly high encounter rate. Persona 1 and 3 you can definitely make the case of being janky seeing as the latter would give you so little control that your party could heal the final boss or the former being Persona 1, which makes correct placement mandatory until you can just equip everyone with guns. SMT 1 & 2 also aren’t very janky, in fact they’re probably the easiest in the series. But being SNES games, they may or may not be a little vague on where to go or what to do. SMT 2 is especially easy as you can autobattle your way out of most fights and it’ll work.
Thanks for doing this. You have no idea how hard it is to find a perspective from a new player to the series. I saw the game on steam with lots of positive reviews and some negative. But I'll say 98% of the reviews were coming from fans of the series. And as an outside gamer looking into the gameplay I could not see the appeal at all and was trying me darndest to understand the appeal. But again most videos/reviews/comments were coming from veterans of the series over the past 10 years
the remakes on the 3ds might be closer to the purse owner q you know, they started dabbling with narrative in 4, then untold 1 has a full cast of characters in the story mode and a classic mode for what this collection offers. as for these ones, a tip you would eventually figure out is to make your trips mean something. trip 1- find new places, get to a shortcut, return, trip 2- do the quests trip 1 unlocked and go to that one path you now know leads nowhere. trip 3- next shortcut, trip 4- test the local foe. small objectives you make for yourself
I've been with the series since the first release and in my opinion if you weren't genuinely interested in getting into the series and are just casually trying it out, look at some party build guides(not labyrinth guides cause that just defeats the purpose as a first time player) a major hinderance to progress in these titles is having a party that can progress. So look up some builds see which skills are good or a waste of time or bugged( i forgot to even look into if the original bugged skills are still in this remaster). Some skills actually got worse if you upgrade them past a point, don't know if that was a bug but yeah don't take the protectors element shields past lvl 5 or whatever the mid point was. If you're looking for plot and characters you came to the wrong neighbourhood friend, this niche only serves those that like exploration with a little world building and i honestly think you do a disservice to the game playing them without the second touch screen. But that's just me.
First, I wouldn’t suggest playing the Switch/Steam versions if you want to get into EO. The DS/3DS games are so much more intuitive with their mapping. If anything I would suggest EO4, EO5 or EOU2 as the first game to try. That being said, my general advice for EO1 is to embrace the jank. It is a game that was made for the DS and a lot of the systems they put in weren’t fully optimized. The best party to use for early game is Protector/Landy/Medic/Survivalist/Alchemist Rush Defender and Immunize on the Protector and Medic respectively. Landy should go for Tornado to level 5 and then Blazer. Survivalist should get Ambush and Multishot, Alchemist is the most important. Get 1 point in Toxins and max out Poison ASAP. That makes FOEs significantly easier to down. With Defender and Immunize you don’t have to worry about getting one shot while you wait for Poison to hit. The main draw of this game is that you start out as a nobody. You’re a weak adventurer who has to struggle to find your footing in an unforgiving world. That makes the eventual power spike so much more rewarding. This absolutely isn’t a game for everyone though. I personally adore this series. It’s without a doubt my favorite of all time. Even then, I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone. It’s punishingly difficult and the type of game that takes hours just to see progress in.
Gotta love that Atlus ported the three most broken games balance wise first. EO1 and 2 are utter nightmares and while I love EO3, it was my first game, it is NOT a good starting point, not without some pointers to make it less painful. Any 3DS title except nexus would've been a better candidate for a port, and I am praying one day they release some 3DS collection, at the very least 4 and 5 which are the easiest to get into and the most refined EO titles respectively.
i waited untill i saw all 3 games as a bundle for 30 bucks in total. that is my time. its a decent dungeon crawler and good for playing it on the switch nor or then.
It depends on what style you are used too. I started on part 1 on the DS and like yourself I had my doubts but the story is stronger with the Mystery and that is the draw card on why its a popular series. It keeps you guessing like a good book you cant put down. It doesnt upset me you have your views on the game and I was stunned its called Niche since unlike most niche games it got released to the west and a lot never do. Yes the game isnt for everyone but I can say the exact same thing about Mario, Zelda and Metriod since none of those series ever appealed to me apart from Super Mario RPG. The dungeons are HUGE and run on themes and gimmicks so theres a Gauntlet styled theme to this as well in a way i.e. teleports, Pain squares ETC ETC and it takes a LOT of time to see the entire game 120 hours or more if you count side quests.
My biggest problem with Etrrain Odyseey is that abilities don't do what they are really advertised to do. Level 1 Shelter from Troubadour is a 2% damage reduction, so if you want to play defensive this way it's a waste of time. The Survivalists shadow bow in the first game gives her 0.5 weapon speed (which cuts her speed in half). The game never tells you about weapon speed, so you have no way to know that you handicapped yourself. How much is ^ or ^^? How often does this ability really work? Also a big turn off in later ones where Character Select Forcing rears its ugly head. I hate having to stop what I'm doing to raise a specific character to do one thing, that something the 2nd one loved to do.
You asked for tips that might help you enjoy the game more and thinking as someone who's played the games I have gameplay tips but they wouldn't really fix the elements you disliked, the main thing you disliked is the slow progression through the dungeon which no amount of tips will help since that's part of the design The games are in my opinion best played to chill to while doing something else on another screen, which seems strange that I play these games to chill when people talk about how challenging they are Main thing is that when you first get to a new area it will kick your teeth in, you won't know where to go, and it will be challenging but after a few hours in that area it becomes very manageable and relaxing so the game can go from challenging to chill as you get better geared, I feel That's the major charm, being able to steamroll through an area and even auto-battle FOEs on the highest difficult mode who previously one-shot you after clearing an area is on the surface more boring but since it takes time to get there it becomes satisfying If I have any tips it'd probably be to not play the game blind as a newcomer and specifically look up the website Etrian Odyssey (Insert subtitle here) skill sim which is a website you can use to see the exact numbers of skills rather than how in game it just shows arrows up or down to show what your skill points do which can make the game more difficult cause you end up unknowingly wasting points on a skill that is worse than one you already have Also another thing is not to build characters too spread out, generally especially early on its best to try to max out a few skills and rush them than to spread out skill points to multiple since 1 maxed out skill even early into the skill tree will most likely be more effective than a skill with a lot of prerequisites with only a point into the skill, like in Etrian Odyssey 3 I rushed the Soverign skill which gives Passive healing to all other allies if the user is at full health when ending a round 47 free healing each round at max, making my Monk (Medic equivalent for 3) be able to save TP for revival which is expensive since they don't need to spend it to heal in battle
Also since characters have very limited Mana (TP) to cast skills and leveling up skills can permanently increase the cost in exchange for damage sometimes it can be better for characters with low TP to not upgrade Skills cause if they can't cast them because they are out of Mana it doesn't matter how much better they are than previous levels
Understandable video The game is pretty confusing as to what all the skills does, and it can be an awful feeli mg investing in a skill thats pointless As someone that played the original 2 on the DS, the HD port is actually a bit more substantive then i though: theres a lot of small improvements, and several skills actually worked now or were rebalanced to actually be what the developers intended. And the combat can be faster then it originally was. The skill tree in the original was basically an exceel spreedcgeet that was mangling to read and understand, so having it be an actual skill tree is nice. And the extra portraits for each class is cool Still, the price is too high, 30 individualy would have been acceptable. Anyhow; given your preferences and what you want from rpgs, it sounds like EO5 might actually be a good fit for you. Its sadly just on the 3DS, but its in my opinion the best game in the series by a wide shot (yes, even better then EO3) as its much more accessible for new players, each class is very distinct and each skill is actually interesting, and the maps are true to the “map a dungeon” theme of the series but are far more involved. Tmaking a good map and understanding the space is almost like a zelda dungeon in EO5, whereas in the original 3 games it was more “heres a lot of corridors with some stuff in them”. The last stratum in EO5 is actually mindblowingly good, and has an amazing twist i wont spoil I dont know when atlus will put out EO5 though, so you either have to hunt it down for the 3ds, or pirate/emulate it I cant PROMISE you will love it, but if you found stuff you liked in even the original EO games, then i put the odds of you loving EO5 at 15% and that you have a good time overall at 70%
I'll take that into consideration when I decide to revisit the franchise, I think I had the wrong expectations going in and maybe if I go in with what I've been told now I might enjoy it more.
@@TillerBric If you do play etrian odyssey 5 you should ignore the character race part as it gets way too complex for beginners and yeah if you have a sense of party building then you can actually make more progress faster in the dungeon then if you dont: THe game can crawl to a halt and be very slow. I only started playing etrian odyssey 3 with the HD port, as i couldnt get hold of the DS cart. i could get through a dungeon floor in about... 40 minutes i think? fully map it in 60 m? Side quests take an extra 15 m? Im bad at knowing how long i take. But its a way smoother experience if you know what you are doing and are good at these kinda games, despite Etrian odyssey being RPGs they can work in a pretty different way then most rpgs. Each game also have a different sort of balance to it It can be tempting to say "get good" as a series veteran, but the games are pretty archaic and confusing, and not the most well balanced. Some classes are a bit useless unless you are running a gimmick party or really know what you are doing, and i dont know how much atlus truly updated EO HD. THe draw of these game is highly dependent on making a cool party that you like, but since it costs so much time and guesswork to make a party you can either get stuck in a boring party, or have a ridicously tough time as a noob It doesnt help that a lot of skills feels like "fodder" that you have to invest into to get to the skill you actually want, which isnt the most fun. I had hoped that Atlus would include a "mini" guide tutorial for party building philosophy or for how different parts of the games work. But they didnt do too much. I dont mean a "heres exactly what things you need in your party", more a "you should take these into considerations" The map design of the original 2 games can be kinda redundant as well, the games were made to be a "dungeon crawl" of course, but theres a lot of repetition in the navigation, that EO 3 4 and 5 Manages to avoid. EO 3 is the "refined" version of the classic etrian odyssey games imo. 5 Is the best, 4 is probably the simplest to learn. There is etrian odyssey nexus that IS a great game with a lot to dig into, but its extremely overwhelming for a beginner unless you follow a party building guide. Its more like a greatest hits for series fans.
I generally love the Etrian Odyssey games. I have almost all of them on my 3DS and I even picked up both Persona Q titles when they released. That said, these titles were significantly designed around the stylus and mapping mechanic. It's a game you enjoy for the sake of exploration and party building. And if one of those design axioms are significantly hamstrung by the limitations of the Switch to act as a 3DS stand-in, then the overall experience is hampered as well. It could still be fun to experiment with party building and using your creations to take down difficult bosses. But if that's all the game offers, then the experience becomes less convincing as a package. I do think that this unfortunately makes the 3DS versions more definitive than the Switch ones, which makes me sad because I wish I could share that fun dungeon-crawling experience these series did so well with others.
I like these games a lot and yes, they definitively are meant to be played in short burst which is why switch version is probably ideal since it has portability. Either way the prices are a bit too high.
You should play persona Q its an etrain odyssey crossover. The story is great and you feel like you make a lot of progress when playing it. Also the music is so sick especially whem you go up against a FOE and group gets all hyped up
I'm honestly just shocked they didn't just port the 3d remakes, I know story mode is not a popular mode, but I feel like having a story mode like it's an campaign mode in other games would be like a natural evolution of the series.
Every other 1st person dungeon crawler has a fairly extensive story but Etrian Odyssey likely started as a simple side project and people liked it that way so Atlus didn’t bother to put in a story until later.
I definitely enjoyed Persona Q2, but I didn't care for the gameplay that much. Etrian Oddysey doesnt really seem to interest me, given I already didnt care much for the gameplay style from Q2.
So a little bit like a roguelike plays. That kinda intrigues me. But Honkai Star Rail, FF16 coming, Diablo 4 being fantastic, XB3 still in Ch. 3........
The good news is that they released these to prepare for the newest EO which hopefully will release on all platforms instead of just handhelds. I tried EO3 out of this deal and had an ok time, just wish it had more story or narrative to it.
You're entirely correct in how you experienced the games. They're a niche type that doesn't appeal to everyone.
However, it isn't meant to be enjoyed in short bursts, exactly because of the patience that it requires.
Moreover, these are some games more faithful to Atlus' standard for brutally hard games, so the slow headway is understandable for a new player.
So thank you for trying these games. It's always refreshing to see someone new picking up these games.
Now, as for tips for a newcomer...
If you're having trouble making progress due to how many fights you get into, there are items and skills that reduce the encounter rate. You can take these to have an easier time just progressing through the dungeon or get an easier time walking past FOEs, and you can leave them off when you find that you need some grinding.
Because I recommend your party's level to be 3 times the floor number, as a rule of thumb. More precisely, I'd suggest your party to be level 5 for floor 2, level 15 by the end of floor 5, and then slowly dropping below this rule of thumb as you progress further. This way, you are on-par with what the dungeon throws at you.
Lastly, HP is not a resource in these games. It's very easy for a party to get wiped due to not keeping their HP up. As such, invest in ways to quickly dispatch regular enemies and mitigate damage taken from powerful FOEs. Your party's staying power is more reflected through their TP than their HP, so don't ever feel bad for quickly going through your healer's reserves. Multi-target offensive skills are frequently a good investment due to their ability to dispatch entire groups of random mobs, and Binds are especially potent against the FOEs and Bosses.
Binds in general are really powerful to have around. Since you've played Persona Q/Q2, you may already be familiar with them. In Q, there were Physical, Magic, and Agility binds. These are called Arm, Head, and Leg binds in Etrian Odyssey and will block all skills that utilize that specific body part. Generally, you can tell by the enemy design which parts they might use. A bear, for example, is likely to use its Arms for powerful skills.
I feel like the gameplay loop is similar to rouge-likes a la Hades, where you're supposed to retry the same segments getting further each time.
Viewing it like that makes it much more fun.
@@Handles_be_dumb A little, yes. However, the gains you make each time is much larger than most roguelikes.
The game is also a build crafters wet dream if you have the patience.
I'm about 32 hours in and loving it...just reached the 3rd stratum. The beginning is tough but smoothed out for me midway into the 2nd stratum. Grinding materials to sell so you can get upgraded equipment is a necessity if you are playing on expert, imo it's the way the game is intended to be played. Getting the balancing of skills right for your party is another thing to consider - there are several guides online that give you decent ideas on how to get the best out of your party. Progressing through a stratum does take some time initially, however through exploration you will find shortcuts which make things a lot easier. I love Persona and Nocturne but Etrian Odyssey is a dungeon crawler first and foremost, and completely different. It's definitely not for everyone.
Fun fact: expert difficulty is actually based on the original game, so it isn't just how you think it should be played, it's how the original devs think it should be played too!
I think i'm having a similar experience, i the beginning was quite tough and i wiped many times but it really did flatten out to a point that feels managable. I played many dungeon crawl blobbers like Labyrinth of lost souls, Labyrinth of refrain, Stranger of Sword City and the Five Ordeals, but Etrian Odyssey is the one that absolutely sucked me in. I played 35 hours in two days and i love the challenge. I spent 3 hours grinding and prepping and another 2 hours fighting the boss in B8F that you're meant to leave alone until endgame, i managed to beat with alot of medica and a shitton of luck. that felt great, but i was hoping for a secret item or even just some hidden npc dialogue wich there were none of. But nontheless i'm beginning my journey to the third stratum today and i am as hooked as ever.
The beginning of any Etrian game is the hardest part. Even if you know what you're doing, you're often building towards something rather than making things easier on yourself from the get go. Balanced team comps will make things much easier. I had so much fun diving into builds, forums and guides trying to make interesting synergies when the games first came out.
Once you get a team that can handle themselves, do damage, survive and refresh their tp, you find that you're going so deep into the dungeon that the only thing stopping you from just living in there is that your item bag is crying for mercy. There's nothing more satisfying than seeing your party start working and throwing it at every challenge that comes your way.
I think a big thing to note is that one of the major arcs that feeds into the fantasy of playing Etrian Odyssey, and really most DRPGs, is how long you can stay in the dungeon. Early on, you're not really all that well prepared and your characters are on the under-powered side, so you have to make constant return trips back home to restock, heal up, update your gear, and the like.
As you progress further into the game, you almost always improve both at playing the game and also simply have greater means to survive, heal, restore TP, etc. so your trips into the dungeon end up lasting longer and longer, potentially even only needing to leave entirely on your own terms once you manage whatever it was you went in to do in the first place. Combine that with finding and opening up shortcuts to get through floors you've already explored super fast and you really start feeling like you went from a scrappy group of new recruits who could barely take two steps without risking death to the masters of the labyrinth, able to handle even new encounters without too much trouble.
I'm seeing some people in the comments mention significantly preferring the way the games were set up and handled on their home console, so I wanna offer my opinion on that since I don't actually agree with that completely. While the series was definitely designed around the DS/3DS's functions, I actually personally find it in some ways easier to play the game with controller/mouse than I did on the DS, getting way further into EO3 with the PC version than I did the couple times I tried playing it on DS. Both generally require the same "motion" when you need to do things with the map of moving your hand off the buttons to interact with the map, and it's just easier ergonomically speaking to do that with my controller and mouse placed wherever versus the DS stylus placements, especially on the regular size 3DS and New 3DS, where they seem to have intentionally put the stylus in extremely uncomfortable to reach positions for storage. I will readily admit that the mapping on controller alone is pretty terrible, and that is a fairly large blemish on the Switch version of the collection (even though it wouldn't affect me much since the Switch is 95% handheld for me), but luckily the PC version is more or less perfect for my needs and preferences aside from the obvious and completely fair complaints of the price and Denuvo.
As far as gameplay tips go, I have one that I think is easy to forget about: You can run from battles. Unlike something like SMT where escaping tends to not really be an option due to the escape chance being low enough to not be worth betting on in times of need, in EO running away is much more consistent, and the chance gets better the longer a fight lasts. If something bad happens in a random encounter, or you run into an FOE you don't actually wanna fight, just dip! So long as you have at least one Ariadne Thread on hand, you can also push yourself way more than otherwise thanks to that as well.
I think the pricing is fine considering they're fully fledged 40+ hour long RPGs with good replay value. I understand the general idea that games should depreciate in price over time, but even at $40 I think it's still a solid value.
Ok regarding the price I totally agree with you there. I get the changes has to made since you're fitting a dual screen game in a single screen but $30 each game with $60 for the collection would have probably be an easier pill to swallow.
As far as tips the beginning of these games is very brutal. You get few skills and you die a lot but as you gain levels and equipment it does get better. You'll progress further the more you play it's a but of a slow burn. In the first floor on the south east end there is a spot that you can collect water if you approach it at night and drink from it you'll get 10 tp for the whole party. On the 3rd floor a bit further south you'll find yourself in a room where Tlachtga destroy the wolf with her curses. After the scene she becomes a rest spot until you beat the first stratum boss Fenrir and she can revive teammates. Keep an eye out for shortcuts and use the arrows for shortcuts because it'll glow yellow when you pass through them. Same with treasure boxes they show they are open when you use the icon to represent it when you open on field.
This is a very niche game and if it doesn't appeal to you I understand. I personally love this series but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Great video! For awhile I also really struggled to get into the games despite my several attempsts. I think something you gloss over that changed the series for me is team building from a character perspective. Depending on the game this can vary gameplay wise, but what really sets the games apart for me is playing it as though the game was DnD. Come up with your own stories for these characters, really play it like an old school dungeon crawler. It makes the interactions in the dungeons feel so much more apart of your journey and experience, rather than fludf. The personality and story I came up with in my playthroughs felt like they did so much in getting me attached to my party and wantkng to make them better. This really encourages the sense of adventure you attach to the game, and made a huge difference for me personally.
The original difficulty was Expert. Imagine complaining it’s too easy when doing the easier difficulty.
As fas as I can tell, a general rule for any atlus game is to never start with the first 3 unless you can deal with jank, because it takes them 3 games to finally nail it on the 4th. Be it the 3DS side of the EO games, Persona, the other Megamis and Tensei‘s and whatnots- the first 2 games are really janky, 3 is when it starts getting good but still carries some jank residue, and 4 up is when it gets better.
Case in point: the easiest starting point for new players is generally considered to be EO4, while the best game seems to be 5, and I personally really like how much freedom in the team compositions (and character customizing) you get for Nexus/technically6butitsnotcalledthat.
Especially with those older DS titles, a lot of your game will hinge on having a well balanced team composition that unfortunately doesn’t leave much wiggle room with the limited amount of classes and lack of secondary adjustments, like the subclasses or equipable skills in later games.
Persona 2 wasn’t really janky, it was just…different. It also had the worst “fusion” mechanics and an absurdly high encounter rate.
Persona 1 and 3 you can definitely make the case of being janky seeing as the latter would give you so little control that your party could heal the final boss or the former being Persona 1, which makes correct placement mandatory until you can just equip everyone with guns.
SMT 1 & 2 also aren’t very janky, in fact they’re probably the easiest in the series. But being SNES games, they may or may not be a little vague on where to go or what to do. SMT 2 is especially easy as you can autobattle your way out of most fights and it’ll work.
Thanks for doing this. You have no idea how hard it is to find a perspective from a new player to the series.
I saw the game on steam with lots of positive reviews and some negative. But I'll say 98% of the reviews were coming from fans of the series.
And as an outside gamer looking into the gameplay I could not see the appeal at all and was trying me darndest to understand the appeal. But again most videos/reviews/comments were coming from veterans of the series over the past 10 years
Nope. Not 98% but approximately 70%
@@stellarkym 71-97%
the remakes on the 3ds might be closer to the purse owner q you know, they started dabbling with narrative in 4, then untold 1 has a full cast of characters in the story mode and a classic mode for what this collection offers. as for these ones, a tip you would eventually figure out is to make your trips mean something. trip 1- find new places, get to a shortcut, return, trip 2- do the quests trip 1 unlocked and go to that one path you now know leads nowhere. trip 3- next shortcut, trip 4- test the local foe. small objectives you make for yourself
I've been with the series since the first release and in my opinion if you weren't genuinely interested in getting into the series and are just casually trying it out, look at some party build guides(not labyrinth guides cause that just defeats the purpose as a first time player) a major hinderance to progress in these titles is having a party that can progress. So look up some builds see which skills are good or a waste of time or bugged( i forgot to even look into if the original bugged skills are still in this remaster). Some skills actually got worse if you upgrade them past a point, don't know if that was a bug but yeah don't take the protectors element shields past lvl 5 or whatever the mid point was. If you're looking for plot and characters you came to the wrong neighbourhood friend, this niche only serves those that like exploration with a little world building and i honestly think you do a disservice to the game playing them without the second touch screen. But that's just me.
First, I wouldn’t suggest playing the Switch/Steam versions if you want to get into EO. The DS/3DS games are so much more intuitive with their mapping. If anything I would suggest EO4, EO5 or EOU2 as the first game to try.
That being said, my general advice for EO1 is to embrace the jank. It is a game that was made for the DS and a lot of the systems they put in weren’t fully optimized.
The best party to use for early game is Protector/Landy/Medic/Survivalist/Alchemist
Rush Defender and Immunize on the Protector and Medic respectively. Landy should go for Tornado to level 5 and then Blazer. Survivalist should get Ambush and Multishot,
Alchemist is the most important. Get 1 point in Toxins and max out Poison ASAP. That makes FOEs significantly easier to down. With Defender and Immunize you don’t have to worry about getting one shot while you wait for Poison to hit.
The main draw of this game is that you start out as a nobody. You’re a weak adventurer who has to struggle to find your footing in an unforgiving world. That makes the eventual power spike so much more rewarding.
This absolutely isn’t a game for everyone though. I personally adore this series. It’s without a doubt my favorite of all time. Even then, I wouldn’t recommend it for everyone. It’s punishingly difficult and the type of game that takes hours just to see progress in.
Gotta love that Atlus ported the three most broken games balance wise first.
EO1 and 2 are utter nightmares and while I love EO3, it was my first game, it is NOT a good starting point, not without some pointers to make it less painful.
Any 3DS title except nexus would've been a better candidate for a port, and I am praying one day they release some 3DS collection, at the very least 4 and 5 which are the easiest to get into and the most refined EO titles respectively.
1 and 2 are funny cause they didn’t fix the balancing problems which means Immunize and Revenge are still broken
EO2 is such a comically janky and unbalanced game that is just funny
damn, never made it to the 5th Stratum...
Welcome to dungeon crawlers. It takes a lot of its inspiration from Wizardry and Ultima.
i waited untill i saw all 3 games as a bundle for 30 bucks in total. that is my time. its a decent dungeon crawler and good for playing it on the switch nor or then.
It depends on what style you are used too. I started on part 1 on the DS and like yourself I had my doubts but the story is stronger with the Mystery and that is the draw card on why its a popular series. It keeps you guessing like a good book you cant put down. It doesnt upset me you have your views on the game and I was stunned its called Niche since unlike most niche games it got released to the west and a lot never do. Yes the game isnt for everyone but I can say the exact same thing about Mario, Zelda and Metriod since none of those series ever appealed to me apart from Super Mario RPG. The dungeons are HUGE and run on themes and gimmicks so theres a Gauntlet styled theme to this as well in a way i.e. teleports, Pain squares ETC ETC and it takes a LOT of time to see the entire game 120 hours or more if you count side quests.
My biggest problem with Etrrain Odyseey is that abilities don't do what they are really advertised to do. Level 1 Shelter from Troubadour is a 2% damage reduction, so if you want to play defensive this way it's a waste of time. The Survivalists shadow bow in the first game gives her 0.5 weapon speed (which cuts her speed in half). The game never tells you about weapon speed, so you have no way to know that you handicapped yourself. How much is ^ or ^^? How often does this ability really work?
Also a big turn off in later ones where Character Select Forcing rears its ugly head. I hate having to stop what I'm doing to raise a specific character to do one thing, that something the 2nd one loved to do.
i will wait a sale... also, interesting that you can play as Ringo lol
It's really just a png since there's no voice acting or anything. Neat but kind of unfortunate.
You asked for tips that might help you enjoy the game more and thinking as someone who's played the games I have gameplay tips but they wouldn't really fix the elements you disliked, the main thing you disliked is the slow progression through the dungeon which no amount of tips will help since that's part of the design
The games are in my opinion best played to chill to while doing something else on another screen, which seems strange that I play these games to chill when people talk about how challenging they are
Main thing is that when you first get to a new area it will kick your teeth in, you won't know where to go, and it will be challenging but after a few hours in that area it becomes very manageable and relaxing so the game can go from challenging to chill as you get better geared, I feel That's the major charm, being able to steamroll through an area and even auto-battle FOEs on the highest difficult mode who previously one-shot you after clearing an area is on the surface more boring but since it takes time to get there it becomes satisfying
If I have any tips it'd probably be to not play the game blind as a newcomer and specifically look up the website Etrian Odyssey (Insert subtitle here) skill sim which is a website you can use to see the exact numbers of skills rather than how in game it just shows arrows up or down to show what your skill points do which can make the game more difficult cause you end up unknowingly wasting points on a skill that is worse than one you already have
Also another thing is not to build characters too spread out, generally especially early on its best to try to max out a few skills and rush them than to spread out skill points to multiple since 1 maxed out skill even early into the skill tree will most likely be more effective than a skill with a lot of prerequisites with only a point into the skill, like in Etrian Odyssey 3 I rushed the Soverign skill which gives Passive healing to all other allies if the user is at full health when ending a round 47 free healing each round at max, making my Monk (Medic equivalent for 3) be able to save TP for revival which is expensive since they don't need to spend it to heal in battle
Also since characters have very limited Mana (TP) to cast skills and leveling up skills can permanently increase the cost in exchange for damage sometimes it can be better for characters with low TP to not upgrade Skills cause if they can't cast them because they are out of Mana it doesn't matter how much better they are than previous levels
Understandable video
The game is pretty confusing as to what all the skills does, and it can be an awful feeli mg investing in a skill thats pointless
As someone that played the original 2 on the DS, the HD port is actually a bit more substantive then i though: theres a lot of small improvements, and several skills actually worked now or were rebalanced to actually be what the developers intended. And the combat can be faster then it originally was. The skill tree in the original was basically an exceel spreedcgeet that was mangling to read and understand, so having it be an actual skill tree is nice. And the extra portraits for each class is cool
Still, the price is too high, 30 individualy would have been acceptable.
Anyhow; given your preferences and what you want from rpgs, it sounds like EO5 might actually be a good fit for you. Its sadly just on the 3DS, but its in my opinion the best game in the series by a wide shot (yes, even better then EO3) as its much more accessible for new players, each class is very distinct and each skill is actually interesting, and the maps are true to the “map a dungeon” theme of the series but are far more involved. Tmaking a good map and understanding the space is almost like a zelda dungeon in EO5, whereas in the original 3 games it was more “heres a lot of corridors with some stuff in them”.
The last stratum in EO5 is actually mindblowingly good, and has an amazing twist i wont spoil
I dont know when atlus will put out EO5 though, so you either have to hunt it down for the 3ds, or pirate/emulate it
I cant PROMISE you will love it, but if you found stuff you liked in even the original EO games, then i put the odds of you loving EO5 at 15% and that you have a good time overall at 70%
I'll take that into consideration when I decide to revisit the franchise, I think I had the wrong expectations going in and maybe if I go in with what I've been told now I might enjoy it more.
@@TillerBric If you do play etrian odyssey 5 you should ignore the character race part as it gets way too complex for beginners
and yeah if you have a sense of party building then you can actually make more progress faster in the dungeon then if you dont: THe game can crawl to a halt and be very slow. I only started playing etrian odyssey 3 with the HD port, as i couldnt get hold of the DS cart. i could get through a dungeon floor in about... 40 minutes i think? fully map it in 60 m? Side quests take an extra 15 m? Im bad at knowing how long i take. But its a way smoother experience if you know what you are doing and are good at these kinda games, despite Etrian odyssey being RPGs they can work in a pretty different way then most rpgs. Each game also have a different sort of balance to it
It can be tempting to say "get good" as a series veteran, but the games are pretty archaic and confusing, and not the most well balanced. Some classes are a bit useless unless you are running a gimmick party or really know what you are doing, and i dont know how much atlus truly updated EO HD. THe draw of these game is highly dependent on making a cool party that you like, but since it costs so much time and guesswork to make a party you can either get stuck in a boring party, or have a ridicously tough time as a noob
It doesnt help that a lot of skills feels like "fodder" that you have to invest into to get to the skill you actually want, which isnt the most fun.
I had hoped that Atlus would include a "mini" guide tutorial for party building philosophy or for how different parts of the games work. But they didnt do too much.
I dont mean a "heres exactly what things you need in your party", more a "you should take these into considerations"
The map design of the original 2 games can be kinda redundant as well, the games were made to be a "dungeon crawl" of course, but theres a lot of repetition in the navigation, that EO 3 4 and 5 Manages to avoid.
EO 3 is the "refined" version of the classic etrian odyssey games imo. 5 Is the best, 4 is probably the simplest to learn.
There is etrian odyssey nexus that IS a great game with a lot to dig into, but its extremely overwhelming for a beginner unless you follow a party building guide. Its more like a greatest hits for series fans.
I generally love the Etrian Odyssey games. I have almost all of them on my 3DS and I even picked up both Persona Q titles when they released. That said, these titles were significantly designed around the stylus and mapping mechanic. It's a game you enjoy for the sake of exploration and party building. And if one of those design axioms are significantly hamstrung by the limitations of the Switch to act as a 3DS stand-in, then the overall experience is hampered as well. It could still be fun to experiment with party building and using your creations to take down difficult bosses. But if that's all the game offers, then the experience becomes less convincing as a package. I do think that this unfortunately makes the 3DS versions more definitive than the Switch ones, which makes me sad because I wish I could share that fun dungeon-crawling experience these series did so well with others.
yeah this isn't a great way to experience EO, half the fun is drawing with the stylus. it's just too bad the original games are super expensive now.
Legion go/steam deck + full mapping + capacitive stylus for small details.
Literally better experience than the 3ds
Awesome Persona 5 royal review
I like these games a lot and yes, they definitively are meant to be played in short burst which is why switch version is probably ideal since it has portability. Either way the prices are a bit too high.
Yeah it makes sense since they were originally for portable systems
You should play persona Q its an etrain odyssey crossover. The story is great and you feel like you make a lot of progress when playing it. Also the music is so sick especially whem you go up against a FOE and group gets all hyped up
Skill issue
I'm honestly just shocked they didn't just port the 3d remakes, I know story mode is not a popular mode, but I feel like having a story mode like it's an campaign mode in other games would be like a natural evolution of the series.
Every other 1st person dungeon crawler has a fairly extensive story but Etrian Odyssey likely started as a simple side project and people liked it that way so Atlus didn’t bother to put in a story until later.
The 4th game is a huge leap and I don't understand why it wasn't released.
I definitely enjoyed Persona Q2, but I didn't care for the gameplay that much. Etrian Oddysey doesnt really seem to interest me, given I already didnt care much for the gameplay style from Q2.
@bitterorange7843 because I regularly watch this channel's videos? Lol
So a little bit like a roguelike plays. That kinda intrigues me.
But Honkai Star Rail, FF16 coming, Diablo 4 being fantastic, XB3 still in Ch. 3........
The good news is that they released these to prepare for the newest EO which hopefully will release on all platforms instead of just handhelds. I tried EO3 out of this deal and had an ok time, just wish it had more story or narrative to it.